Crossing the line?

[Robin414]

There are a LOT of ladies here that present en androgynous most of the time (I consider myself as one) but how far to the femme side do you go without intentionally presenting as a woman? I know, lots of room in that question and many under this 'label' don't care but where do you draw the line between 'androgynous' and 'woman'? For me it's 'clearly noticeable' lipstick and/or purse and/or heels (> 1") and/or nail polish other than clear. I don't think I can rock a purse without the intention of 'passing' but many do 😕

[pamela7]

"without intentionally" - a wig crosses the line. make-up on its own would not, polished nails are daily norm for me, so i reckon putting on the wig is the final line-crosser for me.

[Pat]

I guess I don't know where the line is. I never have the intent to "pass" as in fool someone into thinking I'm a GG. I do doll up when I go out with the intent to move through public leaving as little wake as possible. I guess I'd say I don't want people to believe I'm a woman, I just want to make it easy for them to ignore me. ;)

That said, for me the place where I suppose I "disoblige myself to oblige another" is when I put on makeup. That's the step I don't normally take when I'm just hanging out in my own home. I have that ruddy, Irish Old Guy complexion that I think needs to be smoothed out before an innocent can safely cast eyes upon me.

[Jaylyn]

Robin my thinking would be definitely similar to yours very noticeable lipstick, nails painted, purses don't bother me as many look like a bag now or a backpack. The purses that are bright colored leather and the way they carry them is the line for the purse. Long hair that is curled or cut more stylish as or dyed hair. Makeup that is very noticeable is a line especially if the lashes are blackened. Mascara n eye liner, is a maybe as I've seen younger guys wearing it. Thinking back on this topic I can see that we have come a long way. A man with out a dried out wrinkled sun spotted face was suspect back when I was a teenager. Even certain non manly jobs in my part of Texas were also suspect to be feminine guys. Now it's nothing to see men with soft hands, moisturized faces and nails painted in a clear polish. I think it's great and the line you are talking about seems to be always moving towards the more feminine of protecting the skin and fixing the flaws in our outer epidermis.

[Krisi]

Personally, I don't understand the "present en androgynous" thing, but I would say wearing breast forms is crossing the line.

I am either "Krisi" or "Homer". There is no "Kromer".

[Robin414]

Thanks ladies, I think I just had an epiphany this morning! I think I'm starting to 'get' gender fluid...I realized that when I was a full on guy I'd wear barbed wire and poison ivy underwear (to enhance the scowling look) and a rawhide t-shirt (even in the winter) cuz that WAS ME and I wasn't trying to fake anything...now I feel like I can dress in skinny jeans, a bra (without forms), makeup, and maybe even a purse, and big pouty lips.. I'm STILL ME (just cute 😉 )...I think for ME padding and a wig just isn't ME...I'm gender fluid, not tring to confuse ya or fake ya out but if ya ask I'd be happ to explain...or not, I'll still fight ya! 😉

[Rachael Leigh]

For me wig is crossing the line, I have been known to wear makeup without one as well as female cloths but ones that can usually go either way but there are times I'm sure you can tell. I'm coming closer to thinking maybe I am on the gender fluid side of things

[Chriscrossed]

Robin, I just wrote you a long note full of advice which I just deleted. Your welcome. ;)

[OCCarly]

Good question. I'll wear skinny jeans or leggings, a femme t shirt, and carry a man bag out the door and consider myself in femme dude/andro territory, but I think skirts, bra (with or without boosters or forms), heels, colored nail polish, wig and makeup are all line crossers.

[Dana44]

Its funny but I do not cross the line. Except now I carry a cell phone wallet now and when I use a purse in fem mode I put it in inside. But when Im male I dress male clothes. But when I'm fem and want to be androgynous I wear my girl jeans, my girl tennis shoes and a male T-shirt. I have found that no matter how feminine a male is dressed he seems to be accepted. No second looks. But when I'm fem, I go all the way and do not try to be half/half.

[Katey888]

I think you've sussed this anyway Robin, but I feel compelled to paraphrase Marcelle on this one..

If labels are for soup cans, lines are for soup kitchens! :cheer:

Be as blurry and fluid as you feel like you wanna be dear - the ones who don't understand likely never will... :D

Katey x

[Nadine Spirit]

Someone who reads my blog often first posited the idea to me that I dress in an androgynous manner and I balked at the idea. I still am not thrilled at this particular label. To me androgynous implies that people are not clear what gender you are. Maybe my beliefs go back to SNL and the Pat sketches where you were never really quite sure if Pat was male or female. So while I blatantly and obviously cross over gender lines pretty much every day I live, everyone is quite aware that I am obviously male. Though admittedly when a cashier does not look me in the face and only looks at my painted nails I have been given a ma'am or two, but they quickly correct themselves when they look up from my hands.

So..... I don't really like the label of androgynous.

Generally I prefer gender non-conforming. It is clear that I am a male, but most other males do not: use a female wallet, or a purse, or wear the jewelry that I wear, or have both ears pierced, or paint their nails, or wear the fem clothes that I occasionally wear. But even if I have a purse, my nails painted bright pink, fem jeans on, fem shoes on, my usual male work Polo shirt, and about 2 weeks of scruffy face going on, I am not perceived as someone presenting an androgynous appearance.

Okay, large caveats I know!, so what to me is over the line - wearing a bra that gives the impression of having breasts. I tried it a bit over this past summer, and it was just too much, even for me!

[Karren H]

The only lines I have issues with are the ever deepening ones on my face..... getting old sucks.... don't draw lines... draw arrows and then follow them to somewhere adventurous!!

[Kimberley May]

I'm unsure that there is even a general line to cross as everyone has a different view. Plenty of women wear wigs anyway, especially because it takes years to grow long hair. So a long haired wig is a good alternative while you grow your own natural hair long. Definitely not a line crosser for me.

Breast forms I also can't see as crossing any line. Many crossdressers want to appear feminine, but to appear feminine having feminine breasts often helps. Not everybody wants to be absolutely full-time feminine though for whatever reasons of their own, so silicone breast forms etc are a good alternative for part-timers. I have small 32C ones which matches my body shape. It makes me feel that little bit more feminine for when I'm in the mood to be (which is quite often).

So back to the original question, and this is personally speaking only. My personal line cross is actually undergoing full medical physical transformation, even partly is crossing a line for me, solely because I enjoy being a guy too. But that's not to say that because it's crossing a line for me, that it's a line crosser for everybody :)

[ChristinaK]

About 2 months ago I got a feminine hair style. I wore it most of the time in a manly style. For about the last month I have worn it mostly feminine. My shaped eyebrows, hair and clear polish have caused many strange looks from people I never received before. I don't think I'm being sensitive either. It's been a real change in the way people look at me. So, I think hair can definitely cross the line for many muggles. My hair is down to the bottom of my ears now and it's cut and curly and getting longer every day.

I guess I'm trying to be rebellious in my old age.

[docrobbysherry]

Something I heartily detest! :Angry3:

I dress for me. My mirror answers the questions u asked in an instant, Robin!:daydreaming:

Of course, when going out in vanillaville, I'm forced to compromise the looks I prefer. But, I do it kicking and screaming. It's upsetting and stressful for me, going out and NOT liking how I look!:sad:

I guess I'm just a spoiled, closet dresser! But, if u don't mind, "dressing to blend"? I wish u all the best and I'm a bit jealous!:straightface:

[CynthiaD]

To me skirt/dress, forms, and wig are a package. With I'm a lady, without I'm a lady pretending to be male.

[Saikotsu]

Obviously girly socks with bright neon stripes or non clear nails.

[Alice Torn]

I am with DRS on this one. I feel very compromised, if i cannot go out in vanilla land, in the classy outfits I have, which would be very non -blending, such as dresses, hose, high heels, wig, purse. A bit like going to the symphony look. I also feel bummed out having to be more blending. I never totally blend, though. Have never been out in jeans and sweatshirt, and sneakers.

[lingerieLiz]

I guess I dress pretty androgynous on the fem side. I don't try to hide that I'm a guy and don't wear wigs.

Lets see I wear women's clothes as in women's jeans, shorts, slacks, tops, blouses, sweaters, tees and other fem things. I don't wear overly overt women's clothes such as lace trimmed tops, heals (can't any more anyway). I have in the past worn makeup but don't anymore as at my age a lot of women don't either. I do wear perfume or cologne if I so choose. I still have hair, but keep it trimmed in a male style. The one thing that I do wear that says fem is bras. I've worn them for years and people check them out, but only a rare few have commented. Once in awhile a guy will talk to my chest. If I wear a 36 C bra it is too noticeable so I usually wear the sister size of 38 B. I have also found that the straps stay in place better since I hook the band on the inner catches.

p.s. I don't wear padding in my bras, I stay natural.

[heatherdress]

I don't have a line to cross but like to wear boots (with heels), jeans, bra, top without make-up or hair.

[Dana L]

I feel I dress androgynous but the the lines are becoming more blurred and faded. All my panties are women's and with 38B's a bra is a must, usually a sports bra. I don't even own any men's pants or shoes and my tops are a mix between men's and women's. I keep my toenails painted but my fingernails are usually clear. My hair is about 3" below my shoulders, so usually I just pull it back into a ponytail. Hardly ever wear any makeup. At 6'2" I get a mix between sir, mam and nondescript greeting. I used to worry about going too fem but lately I don't care what people think, I'm me and what you see is what you get. Life is too short to worry about acceptance. My wife prefers me to tone the fem down, so I usually ask her is this ok or too much. So I guess skirt or dress and full makeup would be over the line of androgynous.

[Richelle]

For me "crossing the line" is forms and a skirt.

Richelle

[MissDanielle]

It's hard to tell where I draw the line. There are days in which I think I really am a woman inside and days where I think it's just a phase. Wearing a fem hairstyle with a beard would be where I draw the line for myself if I had to guess.

[Tracii G]

Lines? I don't need no stinking lines!!!!

I really don't get why so many people try to get so esoteric about the whole CDing thing.
Just be yourself and don't sweat the small stuff.

[Stephanie Julianna]

As much as I want to do it, getting my ears pierced is crossing the line. Since I am bald, I can not comb hair over them and I think that studs would bring unwanted attention to my narrow arched eyebrows, small but noticeable breasts and some androgynous clothes that I like wear. For some reason that for me is the tipping point for me. However, if I ever have to chance to live as a woman that will be the first thing that I do. Clip-ons are a pain.

[kittie60]

Very interesting comments. My line was crossed upmany years ago.the only thing I don't doo is wear a wig to work and makeup. Well some makeup,no one notices. I still dress in women's jeans and t-shirts. Nails are always buffed with clear Polish .. personally I don't fret it one bit. Its who I am. Go for what ever your comfortable and be happy.

[Josie]

If a casual observer doesn't appear to notice you haven't crossed the line.

[Kaze_]

Unfortunately I do have to abide by the "lines" considering the small town I live in. The chances I'll run into someone that doesn't need to know I CD are high.

I have incorporated women's shoes and women's button down shirts into my daily wear.

I've placed the line at plausible deniability or worst case scenario "who cares it looks good on me". ;p

...but, girls, sitting there in my tight-through-the-knee women's bootcut jeans wanting to wear them out is painful. The shape they make is just to feminine. ;~;

[Pat]

As much as I want to do it, getting my ears pierced is crossing the line.

The piercing studs can just be small stainless balls. Nobody thinks anything of those. After everything's healed you can always wear small pirate-style hoops. Or skull & cross-bones studs if you need to project "manly." ;)

[Samantha_CD]

I love wearing women's clothing in public without "going all the way" with hair make up etc. I guess it depends on how far you push it.