Gender Identity

[cdrachael]

Hi all,

I have been struggling for a while about gender identity. I feel that although I work in a male dominated environment I like to come home and 'dress' in women's clothes. I don't really think of them as women's clothes but more just my clothes.
I have a wardrobe that if someone looked in it would think two people lived at my house as I have as many female clothing as male clothing.

I have been looking on the internet about gender identity and I guess labels as such to try to find where I fit in, in life. The best I can find is genderqueer as sometimes I feel feminine and sometimes I feel male. But I know one thing and that is once I finish work I prefer female clothing at home and honestly just too scared to go out in public with female clothing outer wear.

comments, suggestions and advice appreciated.

[flatlander_48]

cdr:

Figuring out where you slot in regarding the spectrum of various identities is not necessarily a prerequisite for what you might do next. If you want to go out dressed, as many of us do, strategize on how to do that with a minimum amount of fuss. This could mean such things as finding a transformation service, finding a group of other like-minded folks who meet periodically, etc.

However, remember this. You won't be the first guy to go out dressed and you won't be the last. But, you could be the next!

Good Luck!

DeeAnn

[CarlaWestin]

One question, Rachael. Why do you have the stress of having to define yourself as something? Long ago, I figured out that I was just me. Anatomically and generally male. Psychologically predominately male. Human with a passion for all things female. So much so that I frequently emulate the appearance and aura of experiencing a feminine existence. Gender fluid and not any specific position although, male works pretty good for daily activity.

[MichelleDevon]

Carla - couldn't agree more - you might have defined me.

Rachael, don't worry about a label - you are you. You know who you are and if, sometimes, you decide to be Rachael rather than the man you usually are well that is fine and dandy...

People will draw their own conclusions about you regardless of what label you have decided on. You will find many people who are happy to treat you as Rachael as a woman, others who are not. Take it as it comes and enjoy - it is not worth the angst of trying to compartmentalise yourself - leave that to the rest of the world while you are out enjoying being Rachael.

Michelle
xxx

[AletaHawk]

Rachael, don't worry about a label - you are you. You know who you are and if, sometimes, you decide to be Rachael rather than the man you usually are well that is fine and dandy...

People will draw their own conclusions about you regardless of what label you have decided on.

Exactly this. I've struggled with the same problem, Rachel. After my research, I've self-identified as gender fluid. That may not be the right fit for you though. Just don't obsess over it like I did. It will drive you crazy.

[Katya@]

Carla basically said it all right when it comes to my own situation. I identify myself as a man who feels just myself in women clothes when I get back home from office. However, as much as I enjoy skirts, dresses, etc, I also feel myself as much when I dress in pants and shirts in the office.

[Karen RHT]

I'll respectfully suggest you forget the "labels," do what you feel is right for you, and enjoy. This coming from someone who considers them "my clothes" as well.


Karen

[Beverley Sims]

Rachel,
You may stay confused for a while, don't try to fix the problem straight away, after time you will work it out and accept your position in life.

Just don't stress out.

[carrie001]

I really don't want to disagree with anyone here, but personally, I felt SO much better about myself after learning about being genderfluid. (or bi-gendered or gender queer. whatever you want to call it) I agree that we shouldn't get hung up on the labels, but learning that it's ok that my gender slides back and forth on the scale, rather than being static really helped my confidence/self worth/ability to love myself.

[MissDanielle]

You are who you are and if that's a straight male who loves feeling so feminine, just embrace it and accept it. I let the pink fog control me so much last week that I seriously considered transitioning. A therapist may help with being somebody to talk with.

[TxCassie]

Rachel, Rachel, Rachel, Fret Not!... You are completing fine. For many of us, our dressing is a physical manifestation of something deeper and that's perfectly normal and OK! Better you have an outlet to express your inner-self than oppressing your nature and fall down the spiral of depression. I can relate to your concern on what all of this means. I too, went a bit crazy with anxiety, fearing that I was losing my manhood, was I even a man! Talking it out with a therapist sensitive to gender issues helped me tremendously. Yes, it's true, I was never the same again. I was dressing, I liked it, I found a connection, It felt right to dress. I felt like me. My therapist didn't get me to see this revelation, he allowed me to see it, he made it safe for me to see, the true me. Yes, I am gender fluid, I am not the man I desperately had tried to be, and that's OK! Being feminine is OK! Take a breath, the world will not end, and look at yourself. Recognize the true you and then look around, and you will see, nothing really changed, not even you. For you've always been like this, you just didn't know it. Take it slow, but take it.

Cassie :love:

[Krisi]

Liking to dress in women's clothes makes you a crossdresser, nothing more. It may be fashionable to call yourself "gender queer", and you can do so if it makes you feel better. Since you have never been a woman, you really don't know how it feels to "feel feminine".

If you have been struggling with gender identity, you may want to get some professional help. Someone who can sort out and answer your questions.

[Sallee]

find a support group It was the best thing I ever did. At least Iaccept myself and others lke me. YOu are not alone find some friends Maybe first on line and then in person they are out there

[Saikotsu]

I'm surprised people haven't gotten up in arms about labels yet. This is promising.

Anyway, it's okay to be confused about this. I know I was for quite some time. In the end I settled on Gender Fluid because it felt right to me and the gender counselor.

However, you should ask yourself the following question: do I wear feminine clothes because I feel I AM a woman, or do I wear feminine clothes so I can feel like a woman?

If you feel you are a woman on occasion and wear women's clothes to match, then you might be Genderqueer. If you get home and you want to wear women's clothing to feel more like a woman, but still think of yourself as a guy, you're probably a crossdresser.

However, despite all this, I think you should look into a gender identity center. They have resources there that can help you sort this stuff out. Researching online and talking with us are good first steps, but what you find on the internet should be taken with a grain of salt.

I'm not saying you should ignore what we're saying. I'm just saying that we're not as qualified as someone who's a certified professional. Ultimately though, its up to you to figure out who you are, and what labels you'll wear.

[ChristinaK]

Seems to me that if you're comfortable dressing at home and don't want to be identified as a woman by others, it doesn't matter what you are. Would it change you to have a label? Be happy with who you are and enjoy dressing up without guilt or bothering yourself about what you are. I recommend getting the courage to out though, if you have any desire to. It's so much fun and really adds another dimension to feminizing. I wish I had done it so much sooner in life!

If you think you're developing into wanting to be a woman, then I highly encourage you to find a gender identity specialist. I think a regular therapist might actually do more harm than good. That's my take on it, anyway.

[docrobbysherry]

SAounds like you're ahead of me on this, Rachel. And, I've been dealing with my gender issues for nearly 20 years.

I still have no idea what "feeling like a woman", or, "feeling like a man", is like. I always just feel like ME!:eek:

[pamela7]

i don't want to court controversy or offend anyone with dysphoria so my words are simply my perspective.

Since I opened my Pandora's Box with the letters "CD" written on the lid, I've felt increasingly feminine, to the point now where I do feel feminine, while my body is male, albeit with a slight gynomastia, I wonder if i've always been low-testosterone - full head of hair, late puberty, small genitalia, long-standing mild depression.

I have been given this body - by the gods - so i'm not into changing it surgically or hormonally, though I have thought about this, oh i'd love real boobs, and i could lose my testes no problems, but i dont want to swap the penis for a vagina, i'd love to never have to shave again, i'd go for facial electrolysis if i could.

As a male I had to pose and pretend. Those times are over. Now, i'm dressing as i want, and if it costs business, well its their loss more than mine. If I do go out andro/light male, it is out of consideration for the emotional happiness of who i am with, not because i want or need to do "male" any more. those days are done now.

[ReineD]

Here's an article from the Irish Times that I've just posted in another thread. It explains genderfluid/genderqueer/nonbinary very well. Of course anyone reading this is perfectly free to agree or disagree with what they say. :)

http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/beyond-the-binary-what-does-it-mean-to-be-genderfluid-1.2418434

I think that fundamentally, it doesn't matter how you define yourself. What matters is how you choose to live and how the people in your life will perceive you based on the choices you make.

[MissDanielle]

Reine, thanks for posting that. I'm certainly going to keep that in mind when I see a gender therapist next week.

[Chriscrossed]

This info-graphic taught me a lot about how different we can be and be under a crossdressing umbrella. really like how the gender identity sliders don't force you to give up maleness when you push hard on the feminine slider, they are not mutually exclusive for some of us.

http://itspronouncedmetrosexual.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Genderbread-Person-3.3.jpg

I've struggled to define myself as gender-fluid or gender-queer or Flexi-gendered and I'm not satisfied yet. However this info-graphic let's me know that I am allowed to change my opinion about my own gender gradually over time, or even just slide the scales to suit my mood during the day. I'm not stuck in a gender binary mode, I'm flexible. Maybe this graphic will let you be more flexible with your idea of gender and go easy on yourself. You don't have to have the ultimate answer today.

Good luck, Chris Crossed.

[Saikotsu]

The genderbread person! I love that grpahic, I've used it a few times to explain things to my friends.

[Acastina]

Liking to dress in women's clothes makes you a crossdresser, nothing more. It may be fashionable to call yourself "gender queer", and you can do so if it makes you feel better. Since you have never been a woman, you really don't know how it feels to "feel feminine".

If you have been struggling with gender identity, you may want to get some professional help. Someone who can sort out and answer your questions.

These are the kinds of absolute, unthoughtful comments we see every time the New York Times prints another article about transgender. There is much, much more implicated than being "a crossdresser, nothing more", and genderfluid is a perfectly reasonable and logical construct to describe human males whose internal sense of identity vis-a-vis our culture's gender binary is indeed fluid and not firmly rooted on one side or the other.

It's also a cop-out to blandly advise others to "get some professional help", as if that's a universal and usually effective effort. Genderfluid fits my psyche, my history, and my daily life pretty darned well, for want of another descriptive construct that's a better fit. It's unempathetic to dismiss the complexity of these feelings with hard-and-fast generalizations or simply hand the discussion off to the nearest shrink.

It's not that simple.

[Stephanie47]

Rachael said she is struggling with her sexual identity. She has solicited comments and advice. Sometimes counseling is something that should be considered if a person is struggling with any psychological issue. No? Self diagnosis is not necessarily the best way to figure things out. And, sometimes counseling is not the best solution to a perceived problem.

As to femininity or feeling womanly I really do not know how that does feel. Please explain? I know what wearing women's clothing brings me....but.. I really do not know if it is a feeling of femininity..or is it just a feeling that is different from my feeling of masculinity. And, then I'd have to make an assessment of what masculinity must feel like because I've seen way too many humans with testicles and penis who are not my definition of admirable human beings. I think you may have read too much into Krisi's comment.

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Rachel:hugs:, I have three closets of feminine clothes and my label is just a crossdresser.

I worked in the petroleum ind. for 40yrs I never had a problem with gender ID.
I am just a manly man that loves dressing as feminine and looking as natural as I can. ...:daydreaming:...

[Jazzy Jaz]

I agree with Acastina, Saikotsu, and carrie001. I dont think anyone should fret or lose sleep over labels however they can help people to better understand themselves and to better explain themselves to others should they wish to. Although some of us identify as just crossdressers, many of us experience things very differently and are not just simply men that dress. Just like a mtf ts is a woman and definately knows what feminine or female feels like, those of us who are a mix of both also know at least to a degree what it feels like. We just also happen to know what masculine/male feels like and have the body to match that side.

[MissDanielle]

I'm not losing any sleep over labels. I just wish I could get to a root cause of why I do what I do because to me, there's simply no explanation that I could think of outside of brain wiring. Not being a science guy, I don't know enough about the brain to answer that.

[OCCarly]

I do not really look at cisgender, bigender, genderfluid, genderqueer, etc. as labels. I look at them much more as places or territory on the gender spectrum that I move through or choose to dwell in as I figure out who I really am.

But the bottom line is, I have seriously researched transitioning three prior times in my life, and every time it was something from outside, rather than my own internal motivation, that stopped me. And this time around, I have had a year to think about it, and I still want to transition.

Aside from that, when I started dressing around the house six months ago, it cured my high blood pressure, and removed from me all desire to consume alcohol (And I have had an intermittent binge drinking problem since my late teens). If those are not solid medical indications that I need therapy and probably hormones, then I do not know what is.

If I have to stick a label on me, then it is transgender. How much and how far I will transition, I do not yet know. Like I said, I am moving through these territories...

[Allisa]

I know from where you speak I too work in a male dominant field, but when I return home I dress in my femme clothes because they feel more comfortable but I also have other factors that I use to express my softer side i.e. polished nails, clean shaven etc...during my daily routine as a "male". Gender fluid is what I define myself as because I can flow from one "gender" to another without the external "dressing" but it puts the finishing touch on my expression. I do go out regularly en femme dress because it just feels so right and it lets others know how I'm relating to the world around me. I hope my slice of life helps in some way with your quest to find your true self.

[Anne K]

Oh Rachel, be kind to yourself! We live in a wonderful time where labels are only relevant if we let them be. I wish I was 30 years younger. Life would be MUCH more interesting. Don't fret about the label others might put upon you. Work on being the best and happiest you can be.

[AmandaM]

Well, I've been bouncing back and forth between CDer and TS for a long time. I decided I like the term genderfuild. In my mind, I should have been born female. I firmly believe that. But, when I think about the aspect of transition, no, I can't do it. At other times, I decide I'm basically a Cder. My mood can move from female to male in the same day, or stay days at a time. Maybe I'm a TS in denial, maybe I'm a CDer who "thinks" the grass is greener on the other side. I don't know if I'll ever know. So, genderfluid seems best.

[cdrachael]

Thanks everyone for your comments, thoughts and feelings it has made me realize that if I have to use a label then "normal" is the key as many of you have said things that I have thought.
I am looking into some sort of counselling but unfortunately in south east queensland we are a bit backward and hard to find someone with the skills and understanding.

But in saying that this forum has helped. I was a little apprehensive to even post this topic.
cheers:):)

[UNDERDRESSER]

Labels can be useful, but also restricting, not to mention confusing. It is a bit of a problem in as far as some people misuse them, and it doesn't seem to have settled down much for definitions. There are some "official" definitions, but not everyone follows them. What you are is what you are, as to to why, good luck with that. I have come to a somewhat cloudy, and not totally certain idea behind my own reasons, but it's not all of it for sure. For myself, I think I didn't want to be the kind of macho man that seems to be the desired image in media, and wasn't really good at it. Because of that and because I felt the pull of styles, behaviours, ways of thinking, that would have had me labelled as pansy, queer, sissyboy, what have you, I suppressed those as best I could. Still wanting to show that side, I was drawn to the idea of portraying a woman. Wearing their clothes, displaying like they did.

Since wearing skirts full time, I feel much more relaxed about being a man, strangely enough. I feel much more confident, and can be much more assertive, I even feel better about my male looks, weird. I am quite obviously a male, no pretence about about any hint of transitioning, not blurring the lines about my body, same hips, no boobs, shaved head. I do, however, wear brighter colours, more decoration in my clothing, definitely like showing off my legs (had a lady say to me "You've certainly got the legs for a skirt!" made my day!) Wouldn't have done that before, "because that's what women do" Who says?!

[desertrider]

Consider changes in your understanding of yourself over time as well. A decade ago I would have just classified myself 'dude'. Then I got the guts to open the pink bottle not just on halloween. Oh, boy. My world went non-binary in a hurry. Very few things in nature are black an white. Sure, there's a reason the bell curve has a flat top, but there's plenty of room out on the tails for the rest of our other normals to exist.

We've pretty amply proven that sexuality is a spectrum (i.e. I usually self-identify around a 3 on a theoretical Kinsey 1-10). So I really don't get the intensity of the 'I'm still 100% male, this is just comfy' comments. But...ok, if that's your identity, that's great, I ain't living your shoes. I just happen to know what fem feels like now a little bit more, and it feels a little bit more me. And I feel a little bit written off by the strength of some convictions ("we're all just guys unless we're full TS") out there. Watch your tone when speaking for everyone, there's a lot of different experiences here.

...So I can be reductionist and put myself at a 4/5 on the virtual 'TS spectrum'. Maybe I'll decide I'm a 7 when I'm a little more passable and the kids are grown, or go the other way that I was pink fogged and I'm really closer to 3. Less absolute than a label maybe. Not hung up on it though, as long as I have the choice not to be binary'ed...

I Love the grey areas, I don't feel so confused there...

:fairy2: Summer

[Mayo]

Labels can help you to pin down and describe how you feel - at least until your feelings change or the label gets redefined. They're a form of shorthand and don't necessarily encompass all the nuances of reality. In other words, use labels if and when they work for you, and be prepared to change or discard them when they don't.

I'm currently identifying as 'somewhat genderqueer', simply because I'm not conforming to the binary. I don't feel that I am female so I'm not TS (at least at this point...). I don't just feel comfortable in female clothing, but also feel that my psyche contains some female elements as well, so I'm not 'just a guy in a dress'; at the same time, I am still primarily (but not exclusively) and fairly consistently male, so I don't consider myself to be 'genderfluid' either. Maybe somebody else would just call me a CD, but this works for me at the moment, even as I admit that my gender identity is in a state of flux. Overall, I'd be happy if society's gender boundaries were less rigid and I could dress and act however I liked without the need to conform to gender conventions.

If I were to rate myself I'd say I'm probably ~6/10 on 'maleness' (no hunting, monster trucks or sports bars!) and ~3/10 on 'femaleness'.

[Amanda M]

Rachel. Look at Pamela's post above. She KNOWS what she is talking about. She and I are both in the same business, and if there had been a false note in her post, I would not have made this one.

[flatlander_48]

I'm not losing any sleep over labels. I just wish I could get to a root cause of why I do what I do because to me, there's simply no explanation that I could think of outside of brain wiring. Not being a science guy, I don't know enough about the brain to answer that.

MD:

If you knew, what would it change? MANY people don't have a clue as to how an automobile does what it does, but that doesn't stop them from driving. There are many things the we deal with and make peace with but we never get to the state of functional knowledge.

For me, I have chosen not to invest effort in trying to seek that answer as I don't see what I would do differently. So, I guess the question is: If you did know, how would your life be different?

DeeAnn

[MissDanielle]

It would help with my sanity and especially if I got caught wearing women's clothing.

[PaulaQ]

@cdrachel - gender fluid, rather than gender queer probably better describes what you do, but not necessarily who you are.

I have friends who are gender queer. They flout gender norms - they mostly don't look like anyone else, and they are generally pretty open about it.

The question to consider in terms of gender identity, is "who am I?" Labels are helpful in that they give you a reference point, something to identify with, a way to highlight things about yourself.

For example, in my case, my gender identity is simple -- I'm just a woman. But perhaps you experience periods where you sometimes really feel like a man, others where you really feel like a woman. Maybe you don't feel like either gender, or partially both, or no gender whatsoever.

Again, I'm not so much talking about what you do - circumstances probably dictate a lot of what you feel you can do. I'm talking about how you feel.


@MissDanielle - I think you are looking for the same thing I was - permission, medically based, to be whoever you are. There is plenty of scientific evidence to suggest that being trans is a real physical phenomenon in our brains. Unfortunately, people have been willing to overlook this evidence for more than half a century.

At the present time, no one is going to give you permission to CD. There will be people who are ok with it, but most won't really understand. You shouldn't have to feel guilty about being who you are. I wanted people to understand my life and death struggle that lead to my transition. I found I was blamed, scorned, accused of selfishness in ways I would not have had to experience if I'd had, some terrible disease that needed medical treatment. I was always envious of people with cancer - no one blamed them for it, or expressed surprise or dismay that they fought for their lives. But they sure did with me.

[flatlander_48]

It would help with my sanity and especially if I got caught wearing women's clothing.

Then if you REALLY need to know, you should be talking to a professional. I think it is extremely arduous to try to sort this by ourselves. Further, say you did try to figure this out yourself and you actually hit upon something, but you didn't like what it was. Who's going to talk you off the ledge?

I really can't see doing this by yourself, even if you did some amount of specific knowledge. Health professionals know better than to attempt to work on themselves.

Anyway, this seems to be a fork in the road. Either invest time and effort or move on and forget about it.

DeeAnn

[MissDanielle]

Seeing a gender therapist on Monday. I think I have it down to a few possibillities. I don't think I am TS because there are days when I don't feel like the type that would transition. Genderfluid is my strongest guess. Living with my folks until June and then I am free to be me.

[PaulaQ]

I don't think I am TS because there are days when I don't feel like the type that would transition.

How could you possibly know that - i.e. know what type of person would transition? There are as many different stories and circumstances of transition as there are transwomen. Not trying to push you one way or the other, that just struck me as a really odd statement.

I'm a big fan of gender therapy, by the way, but it really didn't help me figure out who I was. I figured that out on my own. It's helpful for figuring out how to deal with transition, if that's what one needs to do, and to deal with all the feelings that will come up should that happen, and generally as a good way to deal with feelings about your gender, sorting out what parts are really you, what parts are mere pretense, etc. It's good stuff. But nobody but you can tell you who you are. It's not that therapists can't figure this stuff out - there are some sharp therapists out there. The one I found for my ex-wife to talk to after I came out to her. I wasn't sure yet what transition meant to me. He called it quite accurately - predicting my transition, start of hormone therapy, GRS, and that I'd probably end up living with a guy (all have happened) - without ever meeting me, just based on her description of my emotional state. (BTW, this didn't help smooth relations between me and her!) At the end of the day, though, I had to accept who I was, and what I was going to do about it myself.

[Dana44]

When I was younger I felt strong gender issues and I thought perhaps I was a woman. But then I would be so male sometimes. I finally figured it out before I did something wrong and while some of you know that you are a woman. I'm stuck with no specific gender. That in itself is very strange.

[Claire Cook]

I wouldn't worry about labels or little boxes. Like clothes (and of course bras...) we'll just outgrow them (or buy bigger or smaller forms). What we called ourselves ten years ago is probably different from what we do now, and who knows what is ten years down the road. I sure don't but I'm lovin' the ride.