Why

[deebra]

Why does society see a CD and they automatically think he's gay? Gay men are attracted to macho males and want nothing to do with females so when a man imitates a woman he is just the opposite of what a gay man wants. If the male CD wants to be with a gay man he should dress macho male, not female. Doesn't society know CD's just love to dress and present female, this has nothing to do with sex. CD's prefer this to dressing in male clothes and presenting male. It's a brain thing not a sex thing and is an individuals choice of how they like to dress and present. Why does society get this so wrong? Why can't they accept CD's?

[sometimes_miss]

Why does society see a CD and they automatically think he's gay?
We wear female clothing that is designed to emphasize the female secondary sexual characteristics that attract men. So, people see that, and naturally think we are trying to sexually attract men. Now do you get it?

Doesn't society know CD's just love to dress and present female, this has nothing to do with sex. CD's prefer this to dressing in male clothes and presenting male. It's a brain thing not a sex thing and is an individuals choice of how they like to dress and present.
That is not correct for all crossdressers.

Why does society get this so wrong?
Because if so many crossdressers don't know why they like to crossdress, why would you think that everyone else would know?

Why can't they accept CD's?
Because it upsets their view of how the world works. We're brought up being told that the two sexes are distinct and completely separate and different. Religions support this concept as well. So there's no precedent for how they should interact with us. Left on their own, they regress back to their most basic beliefs, and reject any enlightened ideas.

[Krisi]

It's been discussed here before but the problem is, since this is a crossdressing forum, anyone who answers is probably a crossdresser and doesn't really know the answer. You should ask your question of "non crossdressers".

BTW: Eventually, if you read enough posts, you will find that some of the members here are in fact, gay. Or at least they turn temporarily gay when they put on a bra and panties.

[MichelleDevon]

I've often wondered (and said) just the same thing, Deebra. If they actually stopped to think about the inference they are making they would surely realise that, logically, the opposite should be true; why on earth would a gay man wish to dress as a woman? Doesn't make a right lot of sense to me. It just reflects the ignorance and lack of understanding which underlies the sort of prejudice we fear from some people out there.

We just have to keep trying to spread the message, and the more of us who are out there being "normal" the quicker that is likely to happen. So far, I have not experienced any antagonism towards me when I am being Michelle but nor have I had conversation with Joe Public about my sexuality. Although anyone who knows me as Stephen would be in little doubt about my gender preferences.

Ah well, sod 'em - if they don't want to understand no amount of telling them how it really is will persuade them otherwise. Life is too short to worry about them - far better spend time enjoying our delicious clothes. :)

Michelle
xxx

[Laurana]

I've got to disagree with your entire post.

1: Not all gay men are attracted to "Macho men".

2: Some gay men enjoy the idea of having sex with men dressed as women.

3: Not all CD's dress just because they like it. Some do it for the sexual thrill.

4: For some it is a sex thing and not a brain thing.

5: Society doesn't get it wrong. Individuals do. Society as a whole accepts everything. It's the individuals within that society that don't accept things.

[IamWren]

I like watching makeup tutorials. I watch them all the time while at work. They kinda just play in the background while I'm working. Anyway, there is one young lady who I like watching because 1) she's really cute, 2) very funny 3) reminds of the weird, quirky thespian kids I was friends with in college 4) did I mention she's cute.

Anyway, she has one vid where she did the makeup of one of her gay friends. They were hysterical together and HE... is SOOOO gay. I mean he is gayer than gay. He is wonderfully, fashionably, overly, fabulously GAY! That video if I remember right has 4.3 million views. He loved getting his makeup done. Really good sport about it. He really embraced it. And 4.3 million people who saw that vid saw a guy, who is unmistakably gay, really enjoy getting a makeover and get prettified. Yes... I said 'prettified'. I call dibs on it.

Also, I recently stumbled on Ru Paul's Drag Race, too... need I say more.

[Karren H]

Because for many it's got to be black or white. Right or wrong. Male or female. No in between. No variations. And they will only change over time as they get used to seeing "us" out and about. We become the new normality.

[Kate Simmons]

The simple answer is "society" isn't us, we are and we understand who we are and how we feel. Hell, some of "society" don't even know who they are, so I'd say we have a head start on them, no? :battingeyelashes::)

[pamela7]

Laurana and Sometimes-Miss answer your post well. I suppose we have these threads coming round again and we update our views each time.

In my opinion, with NO judgement nor criticism of anyone: the stereotypical view of the crossdresser is the one media feeds people. This, by and large, is a gay drag queen icon (e.g. la cage aux folles). While the CD world represents the overall world dynamics concerning sexuality, there are a lot of CD's who do turn bi when dressed, and probably a lot more than might admit they do. There are also CD's who like to dress as the tart/schoolgirl, which some men then consider a "come-on" because of the media connotations of women thus dressed on the streets. Again, I emphasise nothing right nor wrong, no criticism, just that these perceptions give rise to a presumption of at leasy gayness.

Im my humble opinion, without the programming we receive when we grow up, probably a massive % of people would be bi - "the lady doth protest too much". Personally, I am so happily married to welshgirl that I have zero sexual interest elsewhere, literally zero, which given how i was before i met her is miraculous, but it does not stop others thinking i might be available just cos i dress. We can't stop other people thinking or perceiving things. All we can do is education/show/explain, which is helped by being out of the closet where all can see you're a regular guy cross-dressed (CD'ers). By the same token the differentiation of transsexuals as women in male bodies wearing clothes to their mental gender can only help.

Perhaps schools also do not teach kids to date, to learn signals, to recognise when it's not "hard to get" but actually "go away".

[Beverley Sims]

Mos can not differentiate between the two.

Just something we have to live with.

[Mayo]

What sometimes_miss said. Basically, lack of knowledge, stereotypes, and a need to put people in boxes with convenient labels.

[MissDanielle]

I'm not attracted to men but if putting on women's clothing makes me feel very girly and feminine inside, so be it.

[Tina_gm]

Um, Aren't we missing something here girls?? Up to the very recent past, and mostly including today too, Most who have been portrayed, or those who have come out as TG, have in fact been sexually attracted to men. In pretty much every movie, tv show....haha, get it, talk show, someone comes out as TG whatever, AND they have a boyfriend, or husband, or are attracted to men. How the heck are people to know there are TG people whose gender issues are not the same as their sexuality? Who really has come out besides Caitlyn Jenner who is identifying as TS and is also identifying as being female attracted sexually? Most of us, myself included who are deep within our closets, usually those who are straight as far as our male selves go, never go out in the public much and tell OUR story. And heck, who right now is really going to believe us anyway?

[Tracii G]

Thats the way its been for me anyway I have yet to find a gay man remotely into a guy that CD's.
It would be nice to find one that did and build a nice relationship with.

[Lorileah]

Um, Aren't we missing something here girls?? Up to the very recent past, and mostly including today too, Most who have been portrayed, or those who have come out as TG, have in fact been sexually attracted to men. In pretty much every movie, tv show....haha, get it, talk show, someone comes out as TG whatever, AND they have a boyfriend, or husband, or are attracted to men.
That's the media. The same media that portrays every minority as some sort of stereotype. There is no movie or news story if the the Trans person is middle of the road.

But let's discuss something here. You don't understand why society sees the TG as gay. And yet, how many threads are there here about being attracted to men when dressed? You walk the walk...

Also how many here actually have tried to change the perception? You can't do it from your closet. Now this doesn't mean you need to go out dressed but you should say SOMETHING when your buddies make a joke. Or your wife makes a comment while watching TV. Or your kids bully someone who is not the "norm".

Betcha most of you sit on your hands.


Why do people see TGs as gay? Because that's how we get portrayed and no one says anything

[reb.femme]

...Also how many here actually have tried to change the perception? You can't do it from your closet. Now this doesn't mean you need to go out dressed but you should say SOMETHING when your buddies make a joke. Or your wife makes a comment while watching TV. Or your kids bully someone who is not the "norm"...

I totally agree with this section. I was at a TS friend's barbecue and she had invited a couple of straight couples. Does that work grammatically? Anyway, you could see the disbelief on their faces when I explained that I like many other CDs, were/are straight. Akin to banging your head on a brick wall, the voices agreed but faces and reactions said the complete opposite. I also add my thoughts and indeed knowledge whenever the subject comes up at work or in a social setting. You don't have to out yourself giving a reasoned argument, but each to their own.

Becky

[Katey888]

Why does society see a CD and they automatically think he's gay?

Stereotypes - plain and simple... The same sort of stereotype that you and others propagate here about gay men and GGs. :bonk: No stereotype is without a germ of truth at its heart, however, and the currently running thread for our 'gay' members (Have you been with a guy?) has one of the highest response and view rates of any of our open threads... (and substantially more than the "just a crossdresser" one... :thinking: but please note that I am NOT suggesting that is indicative of our population - merely what seems to interest us... :devil:)

And it may not be about sex but it seems more than likely it has something to do with gender... and to most straight-as-a-die muggles, gender most readily relates to sexuality thanks to the preponderance of heterosexuality and adherence to a binary gendered world. Add all that together and you have to admit we're then more than a little odd or weird... Society tolerates weirdness or eccentricity (within bounds of accepted moral and ethical behaviour) but it rarely fully accepts tiny minorities and specifically one that runs counter to one of the more prominent representations of success and privilege in our world: that of being - and presenting - as a male. :)

Lori's right that so few of us ever get the chance to interact at any level with the real world - and I honestly think that deep down most of us realise what a struggle that really is and that any benefits (for closeted CDers) do not potentially outweigh the disadvantages...

Katey x

[AllieBellema]

I agree with the first point from Laurana. I know several gay couples in my circle of friends (Hey, I'm partially gay myself too) and it's not all muscly built people either. It's about who you feel you are inside and what attracts you the most.

[Sky]

As Katey and Lorileah have already pointed out, many of us identify as gay or bi. I'm not saying all of us are: I'm only saying the number is sizable, and therefore the public perception is not so off after all.

Now the next question could be, are gay/bi cds the majority or not? The only way to answer that with reasonable accuracy would be to run a poll among all members (this site is a pretty representative sample, although in no way covers all cds) and see what the results are. And that's assuming all responses are sincere. Whether there is any interest in doing that, I don't know. I personally don't care that much.

[Rabecca]

You tell the story so well, that's how I see it.

[docrobbysherry]

Good point, Deebra. When I began dressing out of the blue at age 50+, I suddenly began having fantasies about being with men! It took many years to figure out I hadn't become gay or bi.:eek:

Maybe it's hard for some of us to tell fantasies from desire?:brolleyes:

And, if we're not sure? Why should the vanillas be?

[Robin414]

I think it's partially because we (who may not be) gay or bi have no problem at all associating with those of us who are? Birds of a feather flock together?

I'm not gay or bi personally (pretty much non sexual... period, actually , think 'hot nun' 😇 ) I just love 'beautiful people', like our members ☺

[Tina_gm]

Another reality too is that more men who are gay are effeminate than not. That is just a reality here folks. Yes, there are gay men who are not in any way feminine, and have zero stereotypical gay mannerisms, behaviors, whatever you may call it. But, for those who are out, there is a general tendency for them to be more feminine, than a heterosexual man. WE here know that gender and sexuality are not one in the same. I know of a guy who is very VERY stereotypically gay. And very VERY feminine. Yet, he has NO desire to be a woman. Or to be with a man who looks like a woman or dresses like one etc etc.

Generally, we are more likely to see the flamboyant type gay people be out than those who are not. Or at least recognized as such. Those who are not out, may be like we CDers, who hide their femininity, or in their case their sexuality too. Combine the media as Lorileah states, along with the majority of gay men just being more feminine than straight men, especially those who are out, there shouldn't be a big surprise that we are perceived as gay to those who have very little knowledge of transgender anything.

There have been a few documentaries shown where someone has transitioned yet still stayed with their wife/partner, and their sexuality was straight at the time (before transition) but now would be considered lesbian. A lot who are in the process of transitioning or who have transitioned... kinda hard to be in the closet at this point.... likely since they solely identify as women, are more likely to be attracted to men, as most women are attracted to men. And the media has portrayed those and put the TG label on them.

Until we CDers come forward and tell our story, which is the majority of those who are in the TG spectrum, society will continue to base opinions on what they see and are told. How would they know different until so?

[NicoleScott]

Because I'm a closeted CDer, society thinks CDers are gay?

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Deebra:hugs: , The general public don't really know all about the whole LGBTS world,
they just have their own conceived ideas about us.~~...:daydreaming:...

[Karren H]

Actually there is nothing wrong with being gay. My son is gay. My wife accepts him more than me! Sigh. So let people think your gay. Might be more socially acceptable? Who cares. Some people pretend they are African American! Apparently it's trendy.