Out in Public - what do you see

[Nikki Elle]

This type of thread lives many variations - but in my short existence here I see many questions about presentation and "pulling it off." So what do you see when you watch people in public especially the GG's. Which in turn brings the thought process of holding ourselves to a standard that most women don't meet. I will admit to being a student of human nature. I'm a perfectionist so observing women (and people's reaction) in public is very interesting and there are great take-a ways.

So here are some of my observations, please add your own - but let's keep the discussion on track without being overly negative.

Why are we so worried - As a CD I want perfection with my presentation

I see lots of women who don't wear makeup
Just bad makeup in general
Hair is wild and crazy
Clothes are baggy
Their walking style makes me look elegant
Yet, nobody even gives them a second glance


This is why we worry - my definition of the GG

Makeup is superb and flawless - great facial structure, perfect lips (let's be honest, they don't need makeup)
Hair is perfection, even their messy hair works - I will never master hair
Their walk, many different styles: hips swaying, length of stride, foot in front of foot, quiet and delicate, high heels.....
Coordinated outfits, especially ones I would never consider
A great sounding voice
Femininity oozes from them, but defining it is elusive



Where should I be? I think somewhere between the 2 extremes should be my goal, although I'm going to work on perfect makeup even if I have manly features.

[Erica Marie]

The real problem we all have is not being able to see through someone elses eyes. We are our own worse critic. I think I look terrible as a women, but I have many compliments on my pics and in real life. I just dont see it.

I bet it is the same way with gg's. Always worrying about how they look. When most of the time their natural look is the prettiest. I guess we need to quit worrying about what we "think" others see us as and just be ourselves.

[Claire Cook]

Hi Nikki,

Great post and I agree. When I started out (and probably many of us?) yeah, I wanted to dress to the nines, dresses, heels, lots of makeup ... got my fair share of stares at the mall ... I mean, how many women in this part of Florida actually dress that way at the mall ? (And yes, I'd spend a lot of time checking myself in the mirror.) I think my wife summed it up best when she first saw me dressed ... "You look like a French w----." Now I'm dressing much more comfortably ... jeans, crops, shorts, sandals ... minimal makeup (the beard is increasingly gray..) ... and I feel like I fit in much better. And it takes a lot less time! But it's taken a while for me to realize this. I don't know about anyone else, but my goal is to blend and be treated like the woman I know is inside.

You may be right about your list of things in your GG definition -- IF it is in an office situation, or if it's a night out -- but I'd rather be comfy.

[audreyinalbany]

I think Erica's got a point about being our own worst enemies. I don't have a terrific self image in either gender. I"ve been told I'm a fairly good looking guy, but I'll never believe it, and as far as my feminine presentation…I'm sure I look terrible, but the only gg who's ever seen that side of me said, "you look prettier than me…" Bottom line is I guess we just have to accept ourselves as we are and do the best we can with what we've got; pretty much what the gg's of this world do.

[Beverley Sims]

Taking a critical look at both of your lists, the second I aspire to and the first helps me realise that women don't always look perfect either.

[phylis anne]

ahhhhh yes the dreaded omg what are they thinking of me ??:devil:now unlike most of you I dress really low key ,you really got to look close as I dress like a tomboy/girl when I am out if I act like I am not dressed no one really notices meanwhile ---------------- up in the attic :heehee: but the original poster is right about what we see ,I do a lot of people watching and the biggest thing I notice is no one for the most part is dressed to the 9's

[SweetVicky]

O.K. gurls...I'm going to tell you my story from last Friday Nov.20th. I'm a mature CD, but I used to go out in my late 20's and 30's completely dressed up in Los Angeles to the Queen Mary in Studio City and had wonderful responses. Now,I've decided to go back to the streets in public and loved it, dressed with a white stretched mini, soft cream lace wedding bra & pantie set, transparent blouse, beautiful mid size flurry brunette wig, soft make up, nice necklace, cascade earrings, nice feminine watch, Miss Dior perfume and out I went...now my point...at that moment I careless what people could say, I knew I looked beautiful and got some nice legs comments from walking man, walked around the beautiful Mall The Falls in Pinecrest So.Miami and I felt as my old times in So.California. In resume, do your best and if you feel you are sexy, disregard what people will say or comment...be yourself and I'm sure you'll have an exiting experience as I did, would not change it for nothing in the world!!! Love to all and thank you for posting my message.

[heatherdress]

I think most of us worry about either being recognized by someone we don't want to let know that we crossdress (like your boss) or we worry about being embarrassed or ridiculed because we are recognized as a crossdresser. I don't think we worry about meeting a beauty, fashion or glamour threshold. As Nikki points out, most women dress casually, with little makeup. I honestly would not care to dress like many women shopping on the weekend - flip flops, baggy shorts, casual top, no make up, simple hair style. I try to look and dress as I want to, fit in as best I can, be unremarkable, ignore people who may be looking at me, and enjoy being me.

[flatlander_48]

N E:

A few things that come to mind for me...

MANY women seem to have very low standards of dress when out for basic activities (at the mall, grocery store, etc.). It's sad because I remember going downtown as a kid in the 50's and people dressed up because it was a big deal. Now it seems that we're always seeking the lowest common denominator. In my opinion, if you wear better clothes, you act better as there's something transformative about looking good.

Personally, I don't have much interest in blending as that would mean that I have to lower my standards. I like looking good as it helps me to feel good and I really don't want to sacrifice that.

Light Makeup is never going to be a possibility for me because of some rough skin due to shaving for decades. The idea of going out dressed without makeup is a Major Stretch.

DeeAnn

[suchacutie]

I was waiting for a subway in downtown San Francisco (not Bart, the other subway system), and I will admit that I am alert to observing women. There was not a crush of people, but the platform had quite a number of people (this is under the mall next to the Old Navy flagship store). I suddenly was alert to a woman with lovely platinum-blond hair, longish, rather short skirt (stylish but short) and heeled boots, stockings, and jewelry. She was pacing a bit, gait was clearly feminine.

Yet something was not right. Too perfect, came to mind.

As it turns out, we were both going on the same train (I was in drab) and we ended up on the same car. She was standing, and I was sitting about 10 feet away. No one paid attention to her at all, but once I got a frontal view it was clear she was one of us. No one thing, but hands, neck, facial structure, and that all too perfect hair and makeup and clothes. We got off at the same stop (Castro) and she was ahead of me going in my direction. I suddenly got nervous that she might think I was following her so I ducked in to a CVS and she was gone when I came out.

What did I learn: Too perfect is as much of an advertisement as leaving too many man-clues accessable. Unless you want to advertise being CD or trans in some variation, don't overdress in any way. Beautiful platinum blonde hair will attract male attention, as will short skirts and heeled boots. So, I learned that if I wanted attention, I could see how to go about getting it. But if I didn't want attention, a feminine voice, feminine body movements, average hair and clothes, and lower heels (ooo, that is so hard for me) would do the trick, along with subtle makeup (no black lipstick, for example).

That lesson was one that said we are very much in control. I would have never believed it, but was it ever clear. Presenting as a women, and the perfection in doing just that, is not being dressed to the nines all the time, but to know how to dress in any environment to put across the desired effect.

Hard...yes. Possible...also yes!

[Eryn]

Nikki, I think that true "maturity of dress" comes from experience. You learn what is appropriate for a given situation.

Few GGs appear perfect and those that do have put considerable effort into it.

I try to follow their lead in some situations. If I'm going to an exclusive private club in the evening I will spend time and put on full makeup.

OTOH, when I'm just going shopping it's lipstick only. Full makeup would stick out at the supermarket. Yes, some women do it, but usually it is because they have been other places before or after.

The sticking point is beard cover. If you have to do it a minimum level of makeup is required.

Nothing a couple of hundred hours of electrolysis won't remedy.

[AngelaYVR]

It just boils down to how secure you are and what you feel is good fashion.

[Sky]

This type of thread lives many variations - but in my short existence here I see many questions about presentation and "pulling it off." So what do you see when you watch people in public especially the GG's. Which in turn brings the thought process of holding ourselves to a standard that most women don't meet. I will admit to being a student of human nature. I'm a perfectionist so observing women (and people's reaction) in public is very interesting and there are great take-a ways.

So here are some of my observations, please add your own - but let's keep the discussion on track without being overly negative.

Why are we so worried - As a CD I want perfection with my presentation

I see lots of women who don't wear makeup
Just bad makeup in general
Hair is wild and crazy
Clothes are baggy
Their walking style makes me look elegant
Yet, nobody even gives them a second glance


This is why we worry - my definition of the GG

Makeup is superb and flawless - great facial structure, perfect lips (let's be honest, they don't need makeup)
Hair is perfection, even their messy hair works - I will never master hair
Their walk, many different styles: hips swaying, length of stride, foot in front of foot, quiet and delicate, high heels.....
Coordinated outfits, especially ones I would never consider
A great sounding voice
Femininity oozes from them, but defining it is elusive



Where should I be? I think somewhere between the 2 extremes should be my goal, although I'm going to work on perfect makeup even if I have manly features.

Very interesting. I think about this kind of issue often.

After many (too many!) years of cd'ing, I accept that in addition to the obvious physical features there is that "elusive femininity" quality which makes the difference and there's nothing we can do about it. You're right, we spend hours contouring our faces and detailing our makeup, while many gg's go out looking as if they just were in a brawl. And yet they are unmistakably female and we are not. It is not just one thing, it's a combination of many, but in the end it's noticeable.

Yes there are "statistical freaks" who blur the lines. Men with flawlessly feminine faces and bodies (natural or surgeon's made), perfect mannerisms and a well trained voice, but they usually end hosting tv shows or performing in a theater. Similarly there are a few gg's who simply look like men, intentionally or not. But both extremes are a tiny minority. For the rest of us, we're left ruminating "why did she read me?" every time we lock eyes with a gg.

[Stephanie47]

This is the type of thread and observations that just rile up the GG's, and, with probable cause. Yes, when I am attired as a pseudo woman I attempt to portray myself as a June Cleaver look-a-like. I forego the makeup because it just plain takes too long, and, heck nobody is going to see me anyway. However, I'll always be in a pretty dress with hosiery and heels, and, all the proper undergarments. That's what makes me feel good.

When it comes to a natural GG I see many women who have met all your qualifications and they still do not necessarily stroke my fire. It's not the clothes. I fell into love with my wife of forty plus years when she looked like something the dog dragged in. She was radiant. Her smile melted my heart. I was totally defenseless against this five foot two brunette with wind tossed hair, not a hint of makeup, tattered shorts, a Super Girl tee shirt and no footwear. There's a 5" x 7" picture in the livingroom of her just like that standing with me next to my 1960 Chrysler.

You can take it to the bank....Clothes and makeup do not make the woman.

[IamWren]

N E:
A few things that come to mind for me...
MANY women seem to have very low standards of dress when out for basic activities (at the mall, grocery store, etc.).
DeeAnn
It isn't just women with low standards of dress. A majority of the fellas walking around in public don't seem to care at all how they look in regards to how they're dressed.... anywhere. I'll admit... I'm guilty of this myself in male mode. There was an article in the New York Post over the summer titled "For the love of God, stop dressing like crap". Do a search and you'll find the article. It's a very telling article as to why a CDer, even one who passes quite well, is clocked when she's dressed like she's going to the club but is walking around in the mall.

I remember back in the spring I saw a towering, Amazonian 'sister' when I visited the museum of fine arts here in Houston. My first thought was "wow... go on witch ya bad self girl. Be who you are." My second thought was "but please go change so you don't look like you belong with the hookers down on South Main." Not that I know that's where the hookers are... I mean, you know... people talk, you hear things. :D

I guess my point is I agree with Nikki... somewhere in between the two extremes is a good place to reside.


I think most of us worry about either being recognized by someone we don't want to let know that we crossdress (like your boss) or we worry about being embarrassed or ridiculed because we are recognized as a crossdresser.
This is precisely my fear of heading out and why I haven't.... yet. :daydreaming:
I mean, everybody and their dog has a cell phone with video capability. And I'm just not in a position (financially, emotionally, mentally, etc) to be outed on youtube or fb so my daughter, wife or those I don't want to know, see me with nerf boobs taped to my chest or worse... one at my bellybutton and the other at my collar bone.


I don't think we worry about meeting a beauty, fashion or glamour threshold.
OBVIOUSLY I don't worry about this. I mean because I'm what ya call man-pretty. :heehee:

253783

[sometimes_miss]

Nothing a couple of hundred hours of electrolysis won't remedy.
And yet, that's a mistake too. There's much more to it than just less hair. As one woman said, 'it takes me an hour doing my make up so that I look as if I'm not wearing any'. Women look different. Hairline, eyebrows, eyes, bone structure especially, lips, chin are usually all different from nearly all males. Sure, once in a while you'll find an Andre Petkovic, but usually, a male face is distinctly a male face. Female skin isn't like male skin. Yes, there is a difference, and any guy who's had a girlfriend knows that her skin is nice,soft, FEMININE. Ours is not, and make up usually can't change that (unless you get into professional theatrical stuff which has to be viewed in specific lighting and distances to be able to fool people). We don't spend hours moisturizing, and simply don't have the estrogen that makes them the soft smooth people that they are (more fatty tissue under the skin, we just don't have it in the right places in the right amounts). And it shows, as well. Sure, we may not notice it as much as we look at our own skin. But there is a difference.

And yet they are unmistakably female and we are not. It is not just one thing, it's a combination of many, but in the end it's noticeable.
^this. List all the subtle differences, then add them up, and it's a definite BIG difference, enough to give us away in a glance in almost all cases. Getting compliments from other people doesn't count. Remember, those of you who can, our moms mantra: If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all. A whole lot of people still stick to that. You're not going to get casual remarks that are criticism. They'll think it, but would never say it. They're trying to be as nice as possible, no one wants to hurt another person's feelings. So all we hear is the 'you're prettier than I am', 'you definitely pass', 'no one would ever guess that you're not a woman'.

You can take it to the bank....Clothes and makeup do not make the woman.As above, it's a combination of everything. While they may not 'make the woman', they contribute to her entire presentation; and it's not just what she wears, but how she wears them. That's why a GG in casual messy clothes is still unmistakably female, and us with every possible bit of care taken will still be seen as different genders.

[Robin414]

What do I see? Women who look like guys?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slU_4JhpAKQ

[Kate T]

So what do you see when you watch people in public especially the GG's. Which in turn brings the thought process of holding ourselves to a standard that most women don't meet.

Careful Nikki. Re read the statement and I think you will see why most GG's would frankly regard it as judgemental and condescending. Most women don't meet your "standard" of femininity? Really? Because CD / TG / TS should be defining what femininity is?, Umm..... NO.

You be who you are and dress how you want and let others do the same and respect them for that.

[Angela Marie]

When I first started going out in public a number of years ago I wore quite a bit of makeup and some tight dressers (see attached picture which is only a few months old but i still love the dress lol). More recently I have diminished the makeup and clothes. I still wear form fitting clothes since I am slender. But they consist mostly of jeans, sweaters, and leggings. I look more appropriate for my age and I think I blend easier.

[gokatiegirl]

I never really gave thought to this before.

I grew up in a gay town where drag is prevalent. I started out walking the streets as a teen and never cared what people thought of me. I never looked at any regular woman, only compared myself to the other queens.

I have since traded my heels for flats and walk around in the mall doing my own thing. I don't care what others think because I am so much different than them. I'm also different than many here but have always respected the cd community and had a lot of fun with them overy the years.

40 years of dressing and I still play a man's roll during the weekdays for professional reasons. But I'm not afraid to go to the mall dressed as a man and sit at the makeup counter. Instead of trying to be like everyone else I prefer to do what makes me happy. Weird?

[reb.femme]

...There was an article in the New York Post over the summer titled "For the love of God, stop dressing like crap". Do a search and you'll find the article...

This made me laugh but is oh so true. I must remember South Main, purely for research purposes you understand? :o

I met my wife at a local pub last night for an evening meal, straight after work. I was suited and booted, tie and dressy overcoat as I had been working 'up in the smoke'. Or London as it's also known. I know a girl behind the bar and she mentioned how posh I looked and a few gags came in from three builders stood there too. You should try coming to work with us, blah blah. I worked building sites from the age of 15, suspended ceilings, building garages etc etc. I told them, I like to look after my finger nails now. All light-hearted banter and being from these parts, is the norm for me, but it was a talking point. Being the centre of attention in male mode is great for me, as I revel in such situations, but when femme, I shirk the lime light. Or is that limey light? :heehee:

GGs can dress down and still look fantastic, with their heart-shaped faces and sweet curves...oops stop now Becky :daydreaming:, that's the nature of the beast we call life. I on the other hand, just have to suck it up and live with what I have...damn that ain't much! I can dress down with ease, but I love looking good when it matters, in both modes.

Becky

[CarlaWestin]

Where should I be?

You should be in your comfort zone or gently pushing the edges. Like all of us, I observe women for their style and technique. Especially women that are of my age and general build. I get the impression that half of them have adopted male attire because of ease and comfort. On that note, it seems that too many men have never gotten past age twelve with the baggy shorts, t-shirt and ballcap look. I've seen this at the symphony hall. Disgusting! But, all is not lost. Time of day comes into play. I know that I can wear almost anything to the store or mall in the late afternoon when folks are picking things up on the way home from work. Even wearing a pink housekeeper uniform and white tights seems to not draw attention. And, the women on their way home from work look so divine. I'm always inspired with ideas for that "office woman" look. So, if you are concerned about raising concern, just dress to blend for the venue. Where I live, there's a lot of places that practically anything goes.

[gokatiegirl]

On that note, it seems that too many men have never gotten past age twelve with the baggy shorts, t-shirt and ballcap look. I've seen this at the symphony hall. Disgusting! .

Ha! that's me honey when I'm doing laundry and mowing the lawn. don't judge a book by it's baseball cap.:)

[CarlaWestin]

Ha! that's me honey when I'm doing laundry and mowing the lawn. don't judge a book by it's baseball cap.:)

Can't say I'd be comfortable/appropriate mowing the lawn in a maid's dress.

[Dana44]

Nikki, I think what you said was very good. I see both men and women look so drab out there. Yet I've seen women looking so well dressed and I'm sure they were going somewhere. I think we try to dress and wearing a skirt is alright and where they wear jeans, there is always about three or four women in dress and they look far more women than the other. The young I see are very well dressed. Both male and female. But in our society I sit and watch and hake my head to what has happened to it. Most are overweight and in sweatshirts and pants. But the women that seem to be in shape are always well dressed. So, when we are out just be yourself. People will appreciate what we try to be.