Theory on genetic makeup

[xNicolex]

I posted this as an answer in a different thread but thought it would make for an interesting topic. I think that when you do find a balance between your male and female sides as a crossdresser you become more whole as a person and that it breaks you free of the mold that you were cast in. It frees you so you don't have to conform to social norms or expectations of people even if there are consequences. For me I started getting urges to dress and act more feminine as a young teenager but suppressed the urges :( never really understanding why I felt that way and with nobody to talk to about it, just made it worse and all the more confusing so not giving into my urges and just ignoring them seemed easier. Being born a boy with a strong female side may not mean you ate your twin sister in the whom :heehee: genetically everyone is a female as a fetus and stays that way for 6-8 weeks this is why we have nipples they are our only female attributes we inherit genetically until the Y chromosome starts to develop male characteristics. So its not ridiculous to think that maybe there are more female chromosomes left in some males than others. I have given quite alot of thought to this idea on my journey of self discovery that maybe I have more female chromosomes in me than the average male and that is what makes me so feminine :eek: but I'm not a scientist this may or may not explain it I'm just theorising. Being born with hormone imbalances or stronger characteristics of the opposite sex has been linked to transgender in the past but there is no real answer and that is what makes us crossdressers and members of the transgendered community beautiful little mysteries :battingeyelashes: I don't really know where it comes from maybe we'll never really know, for me I have just come to except it as part of my identity and embrace it. I would love to hear from you girls to see your view on why you think your so in touch with your feminine sides?

[Jenniferathome]

I have long written that being a cross dresser is genetic. Just like being homosexual. We're born this way. Nothing else reasonably explains this. It's not opportunity, family structure, socioeconomic, ... This notion suffers, however, when you consider the late bloomers. I still think it is genetic and some are able to suppress it for long periods without thinking they are suppressing it.

[MissDanielle]

I can't answer as to why I am who I am but I just know that I am. Like you, I was also a young teenager when I started getting the urge to dress in women's clothing and I repressed it for as long as I possibly could. I thought it was a phase that would go away but it wasn't and a few weeks ago, I reached that stage of self-acceptance and decided to start embracing my feminine side (which grows stronger every day--I'm starting to want pink clothing rather than blue). As far back as when I was 13, if not earlier, I would have dreams in which I was a girl or turned into one. The information we have now wasn't available then and at 31 years old, I've come to accept the fact that I'm either a CD or somewhere on the TG spectrum (I'm moving next summer and won't have to live in the closet anymore. I will not be surprised if I reach that moment in which I decide that I want real breasts rather than breast forms. I'm identifying somewhere closer to female than male every day and that's despite the clothing I wear.

To what Jennifer said above, I do believe that we are born this way for sure. I knew that i was repressing something--there were so many days in which I had to tell myself that I'M A GUY. It only got to a point recently that I just gave up fighting myself and embrace it.

[ReineD]

I'm glad that you feel in touch with your feminine sensitivities. :)


genetically everyone is a female as a fetus and stays that way for 6-8 weeks this is why we have nipples they are our only female attributes we inherit genetically until the Y chromosome starts to develop male characteristics. So its not ridiculous to think that maybe there are more female chromosomes left in some males than others.

But this isn't quite right. At conception, all fetuses have the same genital structure, giving them the ability to develop into either male or female depending on whether they have XX or XY chromosomes. It's not that everyone is born female with the XYs later developing as a male. Rather, everyone is born intersex (they all have the building blocks for everything) with XX later developing as females, and XYs later developing as males.

http://www.baby2see.com/gender/internal_genitals.html

[Robin414]

There IS a scientific explanation but in some cases it may be more hidden. The most obvious genetic explanation I think is Kleinfelters Syndrome (or mosaic Kleinfelters) being more common (and un-diagnosed) than many think...

[Pat]

I have long written that being a cross dresser is genetic.

Not every characteristic that we're "born that way" with is genetic. If crossdressing were genetic it would run in families. It doesn't seem to do that. There's some evidence that it's developmental / environmental in that exposure to unusually high levels estrogen in the womb seems to be a contributing factor. That's not dismissing the fact that the behavior is "baked in" just saying it's not necessarily ever going to be traced back to a gene and it's certainly unrelated to chromosomes. (Sorry, no spare X's floating around.)

[Teresa]

Reine,
I'm sure you're correct in your explanation, I picked up as xNicolex suggests that the female line is the base and the male development mutates from the female. I'm sorry I can't remember where I read this , possibly one of the online medical sites, I know we shouldn't believe all we read, all I know is it's makes sense to my early feelings and development. No matter who is correct many of us are born with female traits that affects us for the rest of our lives . I know now why mine manifests itself in CDing , why it isn't just a hobby but a necessary part to deal with the needs of my female side.
I described it as my male side overlaid with female traits intertwined with my sexual needs . As a man I'm attracted to women, I dress as a woman to attract a female. I posted some time ago questioning who are we attracted to when dressed, at the time I concluded it's for ourselves. Men aren't normally attracted to it and women normally aren't but it transpires I got it wrong mine is to attract women. I talked this over for sometime with my counsellor and she concluded that the male lesbian label was the logical answer.

[Meghan4now]

Not every characteristic that we're "born that way" with is genetic. If crossdressing were genetic it would run in families. It doesn't seem to do that. There's some evidence that it's developmental / environmental in that exposure to unusually high levels estrogen in the womb seems to be a contributing factor. That's not dismissing the fact that the behavior is "baked in" just saying it's not necessarily ever going to be traced back to a gene and it's certainly unrelated to chromosomes. (Sorry, no spare X's floating around.)
Jenie,

Thank you very much for your statement, you saved me a couple of paragraphs. Understanding human development and genetics is a deep and complicated subject, and there is debate even within the scientific community. I think that curiosity should result in doing some research before propagating wives tales. Genetics may well have an "influence" in development beyond determining the result of stem cell reproduction into more defined cells. It is also known that the "traditional" x/Y chromosome is not the only influence on sexual characteristic development. Do a look up on SOX9, SOX5, FOX genes. Very surprising. All TS people contemplating transition would be well advised to familiarize them selves with this information so they can get a better understanding of what's going on. But that's just my opinion.

All this FOX in SOX stuff reminds me of reading books to my boys when they were little.

Now I have one question. Can I get this genetic makeup at the MAC counter in Macy's?

[pamela7]

there are a myriad of causes, including genetic or ancestral predisposition, to seek only one underlying cause is the problem, there is a variety, and for each of us, perhaps finding that brings peace. I posted on another thread the 20 or so theories on therianthropes (human-animal CD equivalents), and the same variety of explanations fits us too.

We have people with imprinted defining experiences, we have the late-onset anima return, we have the long-suppressed emergent feminine self, we have chemicals in-utero, and so on.

[IamWren]

there are a myriad of causes, including genetic or ancestral predisposition... there is a variety, and for each of us, perhaps finding that brings peace.
We have people with imprinted defining experiences, we have the late-onset anima return, we have the long-suppressed emergent feminine self, we have chemicals in-utero, and so on.


That's not dismissing the fact that the behavior is "baked in" just saying it's not necessarily ever going to be traced back to a gene and it's certainly unrelated to chromosomes.)

This is a really interesting thread to me, especially the theories behind what might cause this in some of us. I suspect the reason is as varied as there are members in the forum from nature, nurture, environment, psychological events, trauma... who knows. It's fascinating.

I especially like Jennie's statement that regardless of how the "behavior is baked in".

[Adriana Moretti]

to me there is no difference between sides...its the same person no matter what...a little makeup does not change how I feel inside. I can watch football in a skirt, or makeup videos in my basketball shorts . As you stated in your opening line....I think just accepting that I too was "Born this way" has made the two worlds come together and make one complete person. Why fight it ? Why repress it ? and hide it right? It is a journey we are all at different levels of acceptance with.

[Robin414]

OK, I just did some googlin' and actually found a post...made HERE in fact several years ago...do a search for a thread called 'I have the answer' based on the 'vanishing twin'

Not entirely uncommon I guess but usually never diagnosed prior to 1980ish (when ultra sound became cool)

I can share a seriously freaky story on the topic if anyone cares to hear 😲

[jeanieinabottle]

Actually from the time of conception the embryo and subsequent fetus are either XX or XY (the XY doesn't develop later.... it is always there). There are some unusual situations with extra sex chromosomes (trisomys, etc.) which produce unusual syndromes (ie Kleinfelters, etc.) but those are not that common. Strange things sometimes do happen to chromosomes during cell divisions or under other unusual circumstances but this would not account for the numbers of trangender, crossdressing, etc., individuals. Where the bigger interest lies is what happens during gestation. I saw it in an earlier post about estrogen stimulation from the mother which has been suggested in some offspring of mothers that years ago took DES. But more information is on the side of maternal androgen stimulation occurring at various periods during pregnancy which if someone has an XY (male) chromosomal pattern, helps to develop more male physical and now also considered mental/psychological and physiological development. It had been suggested in some European/Scandinavian journals that a lack of sequenced androgen stimulation from the mother which could be due to a number of reason may result in altered neural pathways in the brain which in XY individuals may later result in a more female appearance when PET scans were performed.
So genetic, I'm not sure. But hormonal stimulation in utero, either estrogenic or androgenic (and there isn't that much difference, interconvertable under various circumstances) might have some significant influence.
Dr. J

[Teresa]

Dr.J ,
Your profile doesn't say what kind of doctor, despite that it's really great you have joined us, welcome to the forum. Thanks for your valuable information.

I guess the bottom line is we are CDers, exactly what causes that and our various needs to portray female is stuck in our brains , we can blame no one but have the task of coming to terms with it and hopefully at some point being comfortable and even enjoy it. Most know it comes at a price dealing with it, that is what the forum is all about, I hope you find some answers to some of your problems.

[Cheryl_Layton]

I once watched a scientific programme that showed how some people are genetically predisposed to become psychopaths or even serial killers. However they would only become these people if the environmental conditions were such that these latent behaviours were allowed to come out. This would usually mean that as they were growing up, they were subject to abusive treatment, chaotic lifestyles, absent parents etc.

This leads me to suspect that we (and possibly many more males) ARE genetically predisposed to adopting female/feminine traits or crossdressing but they are only activated or ‘encouraged’ by environmental conditions. In my case I think that there were conditions that made it such that crossdressing felt (and feels) so comforting.

I also wonder if our environment determines how far along the gender spectrum we travel? It does seem significant that older CDers dress more and accept and become their femme selves easier than younger members.

[Teresa]

Cheryl,
Your second paragraph may be true for some but not in my case. Environmental conditions would have made very little difference to what drove me inside at such a young age ., I can't say exactly what difference the availability of clothes would have made . I also don't think external influences and my environment have made very much difference in the eventual outcome of my TG situation. You could be correct in your assumption that as we get older we dress more but there multiple reasons why this should be rather than one single answer.

[Brandy Mathews]

Nicol,
I agree with you on the chromosome part of your theory, I have always thought the same way about myself.
Hugs,
Bree :)

[sometimes_miss]

I have long written that being a cross dresser is genetic. Just like being homosexual. We're born this way. Nothing else reasonably explains this.
Nope. I've explained at least one developmental cause. I don't claim that is the reason ALL of us crossdress, just that it explains why I do (and at least one other person on here), and it has nothing to do with genetics. Where as, the 'born this way' crowd seems to need to believe that it's the ONLY reason for crossdressing, transgender, or TS. There's a lot more going on in our subconscious than many choose to accept....which I understand, and it's ok, because that's why it's referred to as 'subconscious'.
And something else that we all have to keep in mind. There is no magic 'brain finalization' stamp that hits us on the head as we proceed down the birth canal. Our brains and personalities continue to develop throughout our lives; indeed, the physical structural connections can be altered by how much we think, by illness, or physical or even psychological trauma. There are so many things going on that can alter who and what we are. For while even identical twins will continue to have SOME things in common 70 years after they're born, they gradually become quite different individuals.

[jeanieinabottle]

I should have mentioned before that while I am largely in the prenatal hormonal camp in those where there may be a physiological reason for gender identity conflicts, science is showing some possible clues as to the genetics of it all. Most studies however are in mice (and since my name is not Mickey, I don't think they apply...Only kidding). For example, a gene on the Y chromosome becomes the stimulus for testicular development and the absence of such prompts ovarian development. That is know. But what about other areas of our chromosomes? Don't know. First of all, genes which are spaced along the chromosomes code for the production of various proteins and these proteins are what drive physiological processes. While I mentioned before that during cell division and under other influences (radiation, etc.) chromosomes may be damaged and actually parts moved around from one chromosome to another which may be the basis for various conditions. However, the body is pretty good at identifying these mistakes and eliminating them. So I don't think that that accounts for gender identity issues. However, and more interestingly, it has been found that parts of chromosomes and hence some gene areas may actually be turned off or turned on by binding of various substances to the DNA chain at particular spots. Most of our DNA is nonsensical and makes no difference in anything. But perhaps down the road we might find some parts of our DNA/genes/chromosomes that might just get turned off for one reason or another which can occur at any stage in life that might be a possible explanation for gender identity issues. But for now there is no current information to support that....but in medicine things change and are discovered all the time.
Sorry for the boring science.
Dr. J

[pamela7]

I agree with sometimes_miss, there is a variety of causes. Some people have been raised in a way that gives a black and white, mono-perspective, pervasive through their life and judgements passed here. There are many life-forming reasons for this, as well as possible genetics that make up for example the stereotypical military mindset (and by the way I know too many exceptions to believe military folk are fixed in perspectives). For example, it may not have been safe to think or express outside of a certain box, it may have been repetitive drilling by parents or teachers until a narrow worldview is formed.

Having worked with a diverse range of traumas, addictions and human habits, including successful habits, I have a good working theory of how the conditioning and ancestral influences come in. A defining moment is where a person changes. It can be a positive or a negative trauma as such. For example, as a child I associated into the scene of Jungle Book where Mowgli was being hypnotised by the snake Kaa, and as a result i've been immune to hypnosis and the suggestions of others, even tho I long ago unmeasured that association.

My point is a person might be watching a Disney film and see the situation of the heroine in their own life, and associate into Cinderella or Barbie Rapunzel, and before you know it, a child crossdresser emerges. There might a family outing where the girls get a special treatment or gift, the boy feels jealous and decides to be a girl, they long forget this moment, but years later they have uncontrollable urges to dress. The reason is that the dressing in this case is a gateway to personal healing to re-associate their lost little boy from before that defining moment.

And then there are chemical imprintings in the womb and during adolescence, formative sexual experiences that might make the emerging male fantasize lesbian, there will be suppressed homosexuality including complete denial and homophobia. There might be formative stories where one feels more like the female character, one might hate the way dad was and love the way mum was and decide to be like mum (they might start wearing mum's clothes). And so on.

Its a variety, and the spice of life.

xxx Pamela

[Pat]

Pamela -- it's an interesting explanation but creates a nature .vs. nurture question. If the young boy, envious of the attention paid to the young girl, chooses to crossdress in response, why choose that response? Is he predisposed to find a trigger for his innate urge to crossdress? Why not choose another, more immediate, less life-changing attention-getting behavior? Could that event just be the thing required for him to overcome the (for him) learned behavior of expressing male? I suppose we have to stay tuned to find out. ;)

[Joanne108]

I'm doing a pubmed search now, it isn't quite as simple as just X and Y. I'm looking up newer stuff gene networks. I'll let you know. I have a bit of expertise in genomics and gene expression.

[Nikki Elle]

I will agree with Pamela7....there is no single answer. This is a frequent debate where people argue a single cause while denying all the other factors, life is not B/W and our motivations vary from person to person. From the perspective of science, we will continue to refine the answers, but we do know that combinations of genes influence development and gender. Simple example, siblings from the same parents manifest a host of differences from physiological, psychological, intellectual and emotional. It's a big pot that is being stirred and different results happen.

We fall into a spectrum from two extremes - the very female and the very male. We are at different points in this spectrum with respect to physical, mental, genetic, emotional....etc. There isn't any one characteristic that defines us as male/female. We associate gender with our own self-identity and the perception of society. Historically, the rules were much simpler from a culture based view as gender roles were clearly defined and largely based on physiology. The 20th century saw a rapid erosion of the traditional roles allowing for more self-identity to emerge which challenges the historical precepts. The internet certainly gave a voice/platform for many levels of expression and emergence allowing for very rapid change of definitions. (there is another whole thread to start on why society is resistant to change and before I digress let's continue)

Where we fall into this spectrum across the factors certainly influences our behaviors and motivations. It would be nice and neat to have a simple answer, but it's a very complex topic and while genetics lays a foundation for gender - society imposes it's definition of gender at the extremes for male/female while typically ignoring everything in between. The funny thing is people seldom fall into extremes. Instead we have traits with varying degrees of gender that express mildly to strongly, but ultimately the majority tends to associate as male or female (with a smaller number as both, the dead center of the bell curve if you will).

My opinion is acceptance will continue to grow allowing people to openly express traits of the opposite genetic sex that many today consider taboo. However, all change takes time and forcing "my" view onto someone else doesn't make it right or "their" view wrong. You can't erase thousands of years of roles and definition overnight.

[pamela7]

@Jennie-CD, nature vs nurture. There is growing scientific evidence, and I could probably find research papers, showing how much the "junk dna" material holds ancestral memories and patterns; the linkage between genetics, genes being on or off and cultural conditioning are increasingly blurred. The nature aspect contains a thousand generations of influence (and more). What we might think of as nature can be long-term ancestral copied conditioning. I've seen counter-examples of both, and frankly we are nature and nurture and the two are not for untangling without a serious commitment to inner work.

The present self tends to believe it's always been the way it is - just wait until old age and alzheimers kicks in and the prior selves get to re-express themselves. As xNicolex posted originally, the more we accept both the inner male and female the more whole we are as a human being.

[Nikkilovesdresses]

If the young boy, envious of the attention paid to the young girl, chooses to crossdress in response, why choose that response? Is he predisposed to find a trigger for his innate urge to crossdress? Why not choose another, more immediate, less life-changing attention-getting behavior?

It seems very understandable to me. Humans frequently respond in odd or illogical ways to things- hence the expression 'cutting off your nose to spite your face'. I see it as highly plausible that a young boy could see the attention a pretty little girl automatically gets and think, on some level, 'aha! I could do that.' I think Pamela's theory is valid.

[Acastina]

I tend to view the various hypotheses from the perspective of what idea best explains the whole spectrum of gender and sexuality variations from the masculine-male and feminine-female heterosexual model that (more or less) comprises 90+ percent of humans. Nurture as a sole or primary cause drops out pretty quickly when we read case histories of TG folk with perfectly normal nuclear-family childhoods and no identifiable psychological trauma. Nature hypotheses that look for anatomical, structural differences (such as comparing the sizes of certain areas of the brain) are, in my opinion, overly simplistic.

It's most likely not in the hardware (our flesh and blood), nor in the software (our conscious minds), but in the firmware.

Just as computer hardware can manipulate data with software, our organic brains let us learn to speak and use a keyboard and play guitar, but there's something between the hardware and the applications that provides fundamental instructions to allow the brain to have and exercise consciousness. In computers, it's called firmware or read-only memory.

I firmly (pun intended) believe that the answer lies somewhere in the basic "wiring" of our brains, something that got wired "wrong" at some critical stage of gestation and therefore produces "wrong" instincts and responses to the overwhelming tendency of human societies to enforce a gender binary. For instance, it's believed that gender identity (internal sense of self as masculine or feminine) and sexual orientation (arousal stimuli and resulting partner preference) develop at distinct times in response to the presence or absence of appropriately timed and dosed infusions of hormonal chemicals from our mothers' systems. As Dr. J. has explained, the body can catch and correct a lot of stuff after millions of years of evolution, but isn't it likely that some things get "hardwired" for keeps and can't be "rewired" either in utero or afterwards? There are millions of neural connections. How many have to be a bit off to produce anomalies?

Now, given the complexity of the human brain and the multitude of possible life situations, certain kinds of miswiring will produce gender-identity anomalies and variations on heterosexual reproductive urges. Thus, the prenatal hormone hypothesis can explain virtually every such anomaly, from masculine male homosexuals to transsexuals to lipstick lesbians to heterosexual crossdressers, and so on. [BTW, does anyone else find it odd that the auto-correct on this site flags "crossdressers" as a suspect word?] If the gender-identity wiring takes place over, say, three days, what combination of the wrong timing and wrong dose of hormones affects our internal sense of self or what arouses us sexually? And if the body is trying to correct bad code (and perhaps partially succeeds), couldn't you end up with enough bad neural connections to want to wear female-specific clothing but still be a "man's man" who likes all the guy stuff just fine otherwise?

Add in the additional complication of the unisex zygote having to differentiate an XY chromosomal pair to produce a male, and you have a pretty good explanation of why MtF transpersons outnumber FtMs. It's harder to differentiate completely, but some females will likely undergo some form of partial differentiation due to mis-dosed or mis-timed hormone cocktails.

Of course, advancing this idea from hypothesis to theory would require real-time experimentation on human beings, and we're not going to see that anytime soon. They have induced transgendered behaviors in lab animals by precisely this process of varying hormonal development chemical, getting female rats to mount males who presented as females.

Now, add in all the nurture factors (strict or liberal family or religious background, birth order, sibling relationships, dominant or absent parents, influential elders, and on and on) and you get the whole spectrum of anomalous behaviors.

There, that was easy.

Trouble is, most computers can get firmware upgrades to fix bugs. I'm still trying to decide whether CD is a bug or a feature...

[Pat]

I firmly (pun intended) believe that the answer lies somewhere in the basic "wiring" of our brains, something that got wired "wrong" at some critical stage of gestation and therefore produces "wrong" instincts and responses to the overwhelming tendency of human societies to enforce a gender binary.

I'll sign up for "wired in an unusual way" but "wrong" is a charged word. ;) I was talking with a neurologist on an unrelated matter and he surprised me by saying that if you're the only left-hander among right-handed siblings, it's an indicator of a neurological issue during gestation. Since I was a DES son and DES sons are noted to have increased incidence of left-handedness, it reminded me of the (as yet unproven) assumption of DES sons being more likely to be transgender. It could all be from the same event.


It's most likely not in the hardware (our flesh and blood), nor in the software (our conscious minds), but in the firmware.

As an aside, it's always interesting to me how people explain things in terms of the foremost technology of their times. In earlier times human physiology was explained in terms of steam engines, fluid mechanics, clockwork mechanics, gears and levers, etc. Now it's most often a comparison to digital computers. We're always talking in metaphor. And we always take the metaphor too far. ;) (Not a criticism of the post or the poster; just internal rambling.)

[gokatiegirl]

I have long written that being a cross dresser is genetic. Just like being homosexual. We're born this way. Nothing else reasonably explains this.

I do agree with your statement. As for late bloomers, the itch was always there, they didn't know how to scratch it.

As far as genetics, I stopped trying to figure out how i tic a long time ago. I go with the flow knowing I'm different than everyone else.
I was always under the impression all cds are bisexual before coming here. I was surprised to see how many are straight. Dressing always been sexual to me while a lot of cds are just happy to dress and watch tv. There are many different shades of pink.

[matthewkaila422]

If genetics has to do with being a crossdresser, then does this mean it can run in a family? I was curious about this for a while but didn't really think to bring it up.

[Acastina]

[QUOTE=Jennie-cd;3854635]I'll sign up for "wired in an unusual way" but "wrong" is a charged word. ;) I was talking with a neurologist on an unrelated matter and he surprised me by saying that if you're the only left-hander among right-handed siblings, it's an indicator of a neurological issue during gestation. Since I was a DES son and DES sons are noted to have increased incidence of left-handedness, it reminded me of the (as yet unproven) assumption of DES sons being more likely to be transgender. It could all be from the same event.[QUOTE]

I understand and agree. That's why I put "wrong" in quotation marks. Perhaps other-than-normative would have been less charged. I also think the analogy of left-handedness is especially apt, and that's a perfect example of the firmware metaphor. Most of us are right-handed. Why? Something got hardwired on that simple toggle between which extremities are the go-to side. A minority among us get wired to favor the left. Why? Neurological anomaly. Just like gender and primal sexuality anomalies.

[QUOTE=Jennie-cd;3854635]As an aside, it's always interesting to me how people explain things in terms of the foremost technology of their times. In earlier times human physiology was explained in terms of steam engines, fluid mechanics, clockwork mechanics, gears and levers, etc. Now it's most often a comparison to digital computers. We're always talking in metaphor. And we always take the metaphor too far. ;) (Not a criticism of the post or the poster; just internal rambling.)[QUOTE]

Again, pretty much true. But, the computer being humanity's best-yet attempt to build a device that mimics brains, not sure that I stretched the metaphor beyond usefulness. There is a whole realm of primal and instinctive neural connections that we're not at all aware of, but which nevertheless guide much of what we do, controlling emotions and fears and all kinds of things. When we use a computer, we may be aware of the hardware keyboard and mouse, and aware of the responses of whatever application we're using, but the firmware instructions are all out of sight.

I don't know if I was a DES son, but my birth order and family history is somewhat intriguing. My mother had two normal sons about 30 months apart, then me (20 months after #2), then the first daughter in 100 years in our family 13 months after me. That daughter was a tomboy who ended up a jock PE coach and most likely heavily closeted lesbian. She found virtually everything feminine to be downright icky growing up. Imagine how that made sissy me feel, secretly wishing we could trade places. A fourth son a year later died in infancy, and that was that for my mom's childbearing. I also had an enlarged thymus irradiated (a now-discredited overreaction to sudden thymus growth). The thymus helps regulate the onset of puberty and adult development, among other things. My puberty was delayed at least six years. Imagine how high school felt, falling behind, knowing I'm different but using much of my intellect to observe and mimic, in order to avoid ostracism, without ever having a secure sense of self. That effort hindered my academic growth, and I never really recovered the lost ground.

My take from that history is that Mom had something "wrong" in her endocrine system. After the strain of two pregnancies, something broke down with me, and further with my sister. Then she couldn't have another who would survive.

Maybe the most intriguing question from your response is what we would choose if they found out exactly where the mis-wiring is and developed techniques to go in and re-wire the neural connections at issue. Feature or bug? Wanna wake up and never feel these dysphoric feelings again, even with the memory of them? Gotta go now, and think on that for a while...:idontknow:

[flatlander_48]

I have long written that being a cross dresser is genetic. Just like being homosexual. We're born this way. Nothing else reasonably explains this. It's not opportunity, family structure, socioeconomic, ... This notion suffers, however, when you consider the late bloomers. I still think it is genetic and some are able to suppress it for long periods without thinking they are suppressing it.

J:

Yes, I also believe that there is a parallel. There have been studies on identical twins where one turns out straight and the other gay. All factors are essentially dead-on equal so when you consider Nature versus Nurture, the Nurture is basically cancelled out. That would suggest that something physological is going on.

I don't think late bloomers are a problem for this hypothesis. The power of the mind to ignore and compartmentalize is extraordinary. Self-deception is relatively easy because we're dealing with someone that we know exceedingly well: oursleves...

DeeAnn

[vickyybluee]

Your theory sounds like a sound theory and it was very interesting and lies along some of the same lines as to what I've been thinking recently. I do not believe that I understand it all but for me, this is what I believe helped me feel the way I do now today. I'm just a beginner crossdresser and havent ever been in full makeup but I do know one day I will more than likely be to that point.
But anyways, I think a lot of it has to do with what kind of things I experienced as a younger child and secondly hormones.
When I was younger I had an older sister that I looked up to and a mother that I adored dearly, I was super attached to my mom. Soon enough at about the age of 5 I would sneak into my sisters clothing, mainly tights, and my mother's bras and it made me feel so good. I think I did this out of admiration and "worship" of the female sex, a side effect was that I simply enjoyed the feeling. I soon got caught by my dad and never had the feelings again until my late teens.
I lost both my mother and sister to heroin, they are still alive, just not the same anymore so it feels like I've lost the mother and sister I once had. I think this experienced implanted even more feminine in my thoughts simply because I am longing for something that I lost.
The last thing that I think really pushed me into crossdressing was the breakup with my high school sweet heart. She was perfect for me we loved eachother so much but I ruined everything when I broke up with her because I thought I was going away for college. I tried to mend broken bonds but they were shattered. Shes moved on and is stunnignly more beautiful than ever. Ever since I have not experience a females touch. I have exiled myself from relationships for some subconscious reason, I don't know why, I just cant get feelings for anyone else anymore. So, I eventually started crossdressing to replace that feminine touch that I desire soooo much. Even so much to the point that I think about being full on girl just to feel this feminine energy. I never once identified as a girl my whole life, I grew up as a boy and still feel like a male, but I love the idea of being a super feminine petite girl. I would not mind that life at all.
wheewwww, I could type all night but this topic got my mind racing now its time to cool down, sorry for the extra long post but i hope someone enjoyed it!


OK, I just did some googlin' and actually found a post...made HERE in fact several years ago...do a search for a thread called 'I have the answer' based on the 'vanishing twin'

Not entirely uncommon I guess but usually never diagnosed prior to 1980ish (when ultra sound became cool)

I can share a seriously freaky story on the topic if anyone cares to hear 😲

Not gonna lie, I'm interested in hearing this story lol so please share with at least me :)

[MissDanielle]

I wouldn't say I'm a late bloomer...I had to repress the girl within me for so many years due to living situations. I was robbed of my girlhood growing up!

[Confucius]

Interesting theories and your thoughts are greatly appreciated.

I believe that three things are important in determining gender identity, (1) the genes, X,Y = male, and X,X = female, (2) physical appearance, penis = male, vagina = female, and (3) the brain. And the most important of all is the brain.

There is also growing evidence that there are epigenetic reasons for the expression of our gender identity. Epigenetics just mean that even though you have a male (Y-chromosome), doesn't end the gender story. There could be factors which inhibit the Y-chromosome from expressing itself. If it isn't expressed then it goes to default mode, and that is female.

Science has shown that it is NOT related to hormones.

[Maya3007]

I think that when you do find a balance between your male and female sides as a crossdresser you become more whole as a person and that it breaks you free of the mold that you were cast in. ?

Such a beautiful thought. I am not there yet, but intuitively feel this will happen one day and i would indeed feel a more complete, powerful person. Thanks for resonating something I had in mind for so long.

[Claire Cook]

I'll put on my biologist's hat for a second. We're a long ways from understanding this, but if I were a betting person, I'd put my chips on the number that says "in utero experience" as at least part of the answer. I think this is sort of an epigenetic effect. Hypothesis: exposure to levels of sex hormones in the womb can influence our subsequent development -- perhaps not physically, but psychologically. It would be nice to see medical science follow this up*, but until it does, I'll echo Jenniferathome: accepting that this is the way we are -- and that it's not our fault -- is a big part of coming to grips with ourselves.

Or, as I have posted in a similar thread, maybe Rodgers and Hammerstein had it right:

"Who can explain it, who can tell you why,
"Fools give you reasons, wise men never try..."


*There are some fascinating studies of identical twins and trangenderism -- there are several cases where one twin becomes TS, but the other doesn't.