Trans friends

[I Am Paula]

When I began this crazy journey in ernest 2 1/2 years ago, I really didn't think I needed trans friends. I have lots of friends, mostly women, and my reasoning was that my journey is to womanhood, not transwomanhood.
It took a while, but I realize we absolutely need trans friends. As close as our cis friends are, they will always be on the outside, looking in. We all need someone who has been there, or is getting there.
In social situations, I am completely comfortable with my cis friends. I'm one of the girls, and have been for some time. My gender issues are mine alone.
Last night I had dinner with Jennifer, and Erin from this forum. Jennifer's hospitality was unsurpassed, the food to die for, and Erin's company is always very special. Being among only transwomen is such a special time. Three people who actually 'get it'. Sisters. There are things that just can't be said among my cis friends, or have no meaning to them.
We talked till after midnight.
Sisters.

[Dana44]

Paula, Well said. Friends are very import and from all walks of life. I think we trans have lived more than most of the men and done way more than them. I know for a fact hat I did and when I talked with them, they didn't understand why I was so different. My life seemed more significant than they even imaged.
Conversion among friends is is so fine and comfortable and with sisters it can't get any better.

[Jennifer-GWN]

Awe... That's so sweat! We always have a good time together and yes there are some topics of conversation that only we can fully relate too.

I think it's important to maintain a solid and mixed social life but having a couple of sisters like you guys make many situations much easier to come to grips with.

Cheers... Jennifer (Casa Jennifer... If you can get here you WILL be fed)

[I Am Paula]

It is true. Casa Jennifer is always open. In the past year I've had a couple of crises, and Jennifer has fed me well, and talked me off the ledge. If you go, ask for the risotto LOL.

[becky77]

Sounds good, Shame you're in Canada!

[flatlander_48]

It took a while, but I realize we absolutely need trans friends. As close as our cis friends are, they will always be on the outside, looking in. We all need someone who has been there, or is getting there.

Interesting that you say this.

Some months ago, someone here said that in order for them to be seen as female, they had to purposefully distance themselves from the community of transwomen. That seemed odd to me and my comment was based on something very similar to the last sentence above. As is true of any constituency, when people separate from it, that part of the knowledge base and counsel and support goes with it.

Anyway, I'm glad you made this point. When I commented it was as though I said all transwomen should be shot on sight.

DeeAnn

[Angela Campbell]

Hoping you come to Sarasota some time.

[Badtranny]

I'm not much of a 'community' person. I don't join things and generally don't go where I'm not invited.

My circle of 'trans' friends is pretty small but I cherish each of them because only someone who has walked through the fire can truly understand the burn. We as a group are maligned by pretty much everyone, including the 'community' but we understand each other in a very profound way.

We have survived, and we make no apologies for doing so.

[PretzelGirl]

I will say that I am jealous. Sounds like a great night. I look at it as I need a mix. I have my crowd of LGBTQ+ friends and I have my cishet crowd. All are dear to me and all fill me up in their own way.

[Eringirl]

It is alwys a special time with those two!! When nothing is off the table, the conversations are extremely meaningful and with such strong relationships, we are there to help each other through anything. Yes, variety is important, but I don't think I wuold be as strong as I am today without these sisters.....this is now a regular thing and is very special. But if anyone is in the area, we are here....pull up a chair! Best food around!!

[Eryn]

...someone here said that in order for them to be seen as female, they had to purposefully distance themselves from the community of transwomen....

It is an interesting idea, and part of it comes down to Persephone's law: the likelihood of being made is proportional to the square of the number of TG people present. When I'm alone, I'm just a Really Tall Women and most people ignore me. Put me together with a TS sister of the same stature and onlookers start to think something's up. Put me in a group of tall TS sisters and we're seen as either a retired WNBA team or a group of transwomen.

Sometimes you do have to leave the comfort of the "community" to experience growth as a woman. Ultimately, I believe that most of us would like to be acknowledged simply as woman. How does that reconcile with a need for community with other transpeople?

[Nadya]

I totally agree. If you can find trans friends, it can make things easier. Having any friends though that are empathetic can go a long way as well. :)

[Nigella]

As usual, I have gone against the grain her :) My transition has been made in the presence of CIS friends, I have not sought out the TS community, my thinking was that I will need to live amongst the CIS population and by being around them, eventually I will no longer be the topic of the day, but just another human being getting on filling my time between birth and death.

[PaulaQ]

I have plenty of cis friends, but my trans friends really enrich my life. I find a lot of cis people to be lacking somewhat in authenticity, trying to conform. This tends to make them seem a bit dull at times. I still love 'em, but sometimes I find myself thinking they'd be more interesting if they just ignored "what other people think", at least a little bit. The cis people who do take risks tend to be people I really love.

I love my trans friends so much. It's not so much that they "get it," although they do, they really just seem so much more alive than so many other people I know.

[Marcelle]

When I first came out . . . well at least in as much as I understood where I was at the time . . . a CDer, I sought the company of the local TG group and did not have a very good experience and found the whole thing way too political and high school. So I ceased engaging. I slowly exited my male life amongst my cis-friends male and female and while things have taken a bit of a turn in that I don't get invited to many "guy's nights" which makes sense given my recent transition, I do get invites to "girl's nights" and in mixed groups I am still the person I always was so I still enjoy the company of my friends male and female. I suppose I could return to the TG fold as I am sure there are great folks in the local group whom I did not meet but to be honest, the whole early experience put me off so I don't see myself going back. Though it would be nice to have friends who understand a bit more beyond the shallow pool of current day media.

Cheers

Marcelle

[Kaitlyn Michele]

I feel much more drawn to good, interesting, fun and caring people, trans or not...it doesnt matter

do you all want other people to judge us and befriend based on our transness?? I know i don't

i get the idea of sharing experience as a community... its hard for cis people to really REALLY hear our voices, but the reason i transitioned is to get the buzzing and emptiness out of my head and replace it with LIFE...
there is so much more to life than being trans..

i do have ts and cd friends...we do talk about it and share experience...but I don't think of it very much, it just is..
admittedly i probably get my full share of "community" right here...so i can't say there is NO pull for me, but i enjoy being really heard, and i enjoy trying to help people that went through what i went through..
having SOME trans friends who can nod their heads and just say "i know" seems healthy if not neccessary for a good quality of life...

i also feel progress in our world is primarily one on one..
you let cispeople get to know you....and you thrive as a person and you turn people's views right around..surrounding yourself with trans people just holds progress back...

[Nigella]

i also feel progress in our world is primarily one on one..
you let cispeople get to know you....and you thrive as a person and you turn people's views right around..surrounding yourself with trans people just holds progress back...

This I can relate to :)

[I Am Paula]

Marcelle- Back when I didn't know what I was (CD I thought) I sometimes hung out with a mixed group down in the gayborhood. I would naturally join the CD side, but quickly found I didn't fit among them. Conversation was superficial, just makeup, and clothing. I tried over on the TS side, where I was met with the politics of gender. I clearly did not fit, was not welcome.
Perhaps you met a similar fate. We did not self indentify in either camp.

[phylis anne]

Very good thread ,
I like to be around people that are willing to respect you for who or what you feel you are and have the courage and conviction to just be you so far this has worked for me

[Badtranny]

..surrounding yourself with trans people just holds progress back...

Agreed but I believe this is a complete mis-characterization of Paula's OP.

I don't think anyone here (certainly not me) is talking about surrounding ourselves, rather we're talking about NOT eschewing other gals who share our history.

Speaking personally, my 'people' are the outcasts in general. Artists, musicians, queers, bikers etc. I am not a lesbian, but I would feel very comfortable at a Dykes on Bikes ride for example. I am a Punk Folk songwriter who happens to be trans and I have no community outside of the other freaks like me. HOWEVER, people who have transitioned from one gender to the other will always hold a special place in my heart.

The nerve required to come out at work and face the derision head on every damn day is a very attractive feature in a person of any gender.

[flatlander_48]

Agreed but I believe this is a complete mis-characterization of Paula's OP.

I don't think anyone here (certainly not me) is talking about surrounding ourselves, rather we're talking about NOT eschewing other gals who share our history.

Yes. Said another way, the issue is about addition rather than displacement. Human relationships don't have to be a Zero Sum Game.

As I am not transitioning, I cannot speak to how that situation feels; internally and externally. However, the direct comparison to me would be in environments where I am the ONLY Black person. It's not a situation that I would seek out; sometimes it just happens. Over the course of nearly 67 years, certainly I've figured out how to navigate in such an environment and function well. However, the thought in the back of my mind is that it doesn't represent the Real World as the Real World has everyone in it. In part, that's from where the richness of the Human Experience radiates.


I love my trans friends so much. It's not so much that they "get it," although they do, they really just seem so much more alive than so many other people I know.

I think that is a significant point and I'll broaden it out a bit for me with the inclusion of gay folks, many women and many Black people.

I think what happens is that when particular groups are marginalized, it's almost like you're released from that notion of sameness and peer pressure to conform. That can be very liberating when you don't have to follow in the footsteps of the lowest common denominator. You become less influenced by society and more by your own set of sensibilities.

DeeAnn

[MissDanielle]

I like having trans friends as we are able to talk about our journeys together. But I like my GG friends, too. They couldn't have been more supportive and we have a better understanding of each other. Plus, it's nice being able to turn to people for fashion advice. When in drab, I just picked things at random out of the closet but as a girl, this girl wants to look as elegant and classy can be. Some of the dresses on the CD and TG sites just don't appeal to me since theyare too short or too revealing. I like modest looking clothes.

[PretzelGirl]

i also feel progress in our world is primarily one on one..
you let cispeople get to know you....and you thrive as a person and you turn people's views right around..surrounding yourself with trans people just holds progress back...

I am interested in exploring this comment Kaitlyn. I am very much surrounded by trans* friends. I also have time where I take off with cis friends, in particular cis women. I don't feel held back as a woman because I have all these trans* friends around me. I feel like I am flourishing. I am treated like a woman completely unless I am being oblivious to something. As a strange outcome, I can tell I am being treated as a woman at work, but have maintained a strong level of male privilege as far as my authority and position at meetings go. I am assuming this is a strange consequence of being accepted, but having a lot of people that have worked with me for years and are still affording me that respect as opposed to diminishing my thoughts, maybe just out of sheer habit. So I am watching to see if this privilege just bleeds away over time as personnel turnover occurs.

Now I can see some people being held back. Absorbing all the negative we deal with when with our trans* friends and then spewing it back out when around cis friends would certainly do this. It would make cis people not to want to be around us because of the negativity and possibly have a negative perception of us because of a bad attitude. Lord knows some of us have earned a bad attitude. But if you can separate the two worlds, it is all about how you handle it. So as I am working through your statement, I am seeing it for some, but not all.

So am I missing a part of what you are saying or did I totally go on the wrong path?

[STACY B]

As Ye Old saying goes,,, Birds of a Feather Flock together,,lol,,, An outcast is an Outcast No Matter what category you fall into,, Just want to belong to a Group that welcomes you and can empathize with you about your problems and relate in some way. No matter who or what you are it feels good to belong somewhere.

So Gays ,, Trans,, or any other group that is also outcasts makes us feel not so different when we are around them. And it's no different than any other group meeting even though it's not as important to us as it is to others. So use your friends and groups but like others have said don't fully surround yourself all of the time because you will have to fall out of fantasy land and have to put up with real life sooner or latter,,,,lol,,, It's like a Mini Vacation once in a while,, Enjoy while it lasts ,,,lol,,,

[Kaitlyn Michele]

actually i was specifically speaking about being held back "politically" as a group, not being held back as a person or a woman personally..

i think its easy to have a good quality of life and be very happy as a trans person surrounded by other trans persons as long as they are good caring interesting fun people...

my overall point was i do not beleive its an important question whether your friends are trans or not actually...i think its much more important to make sure you accept yourself enough to allow discretion in friends and not just accept anybody and put people on pedastals because they are trans

[I Am Paula]

Just to clarify- I have not buried myself in the trans community. I have a few trans friends that I value dearly.

[PretzelGirl]

Kaitlyn,

That I completely agree with. As long as we stay separate as a community, the longer we will be viewed separate. And we should be selective on our friends. True whether we are trans* or not but it is more particularly true for us. I do know many that only have trans* friends because of anxiety and discomfort and they do have trouble socializing outside of the community.

[Jennifer-GWN]

i think its easy to have a good quality of life and be very happy as a trans person surrounded by other trans persons as long as they are good caring interesting fun people...

my overall point was i do not beleive its an important question whether your friends are trans or not actually...i think its much more important to make sure you accept yourself enough to allow discretion in friends and not just accept anybody and put people on pedastals because they are trans

I adore my trans friends. They are; yes indeed fun, while helpful, comforting, and challenge me as I do to them. We have a special bond and kinship which I value tremendously.

Equally I have a number of very cherished cis friends who treat me as an equal and share many of my diverse interests. Several have played critical roles in my transitioning process which I liken to a mothers advice and direction and sisters bond.

In the end they are all my friends; people I enjoy being with and that's really what matters. Having close friends regardless of their backgrounds.

What I can say in the past year since beginning transitioning in earnest, the the number of and depth of friendships I have (trans or cis) has grown considerably and my life has been significantly enriched in the process.

Perhaps this was driven from and through the emergence of me vs. the sheltered, guarded, and introvert of my former self due to depression and low self-esteem.

My friends know who they are. They know that I'm always there for them and will drop what I'm doing to help in any way I can.

Just a few thoughts... Jennifer

[Michelle789]

I think having trans friends is a wonderful thing if you can find some good ones. Sadly, I have had my encounter with plenty of mean transwomen who have said or done things to hurt me, including people who I thought were friends who turned around and stabbed me in the back. Sadly, not all trans people are wonderful human beings - there are plenty of sick and toxic ones among us.

Now for the transwomen who have been nice to me - plenty have - I have formed some meaningful friendships with them. They have helped me with plenty of transition related issues, including to boost my confidence and in dealing with my father.

I prefer cis friends because I want to integrate into society as a woman, with the trans part being my history and a part of my identity rather than being a socially awkward transwoman. I find the best quality friendships are with transwomen. It's like transwomen are at the extremes of the spectrum - either really good friends, or have been mean and hurtful to me, and nothing in between.

One thing I have noticed is that groups of transwomen interact very different from groups of ciswomen. Groups of transwomen also interact differently from cis males. Women definitely interact differently than men.

I find that groups of transwomen tend to

1. Often have male socialization patterns and group dynamics (esp true if there are lots of people early in transition or not well socially integrated). Group dynamics may be in between that of male and female.

2. We're likely to talk about trans related issues, whether personal or related to the community as a whole

3. Because we're women, no matter how much of male history we have, we have something innately feminine about us that shows up in our mannerisms and behavioral patterns most of the time, though we have to unlearn male behavioral patterns.

4. Our life experiences also differ. That makes a huge difference in what topics we're going to talk about.



I am grateful to have both cis and trans female friends. I need both in my life. I appreciate feeling at home among transwomen, and being able to talk about trans related issues. I also like the energy of cis females and want to learn the culture so that I can easily fit into women's groups.

[Jennifer-GWN]

3 friends... {posted with permissions secured}

254063

254064

We had a good time over the weekend. Others welcome the next time we have a gathering as I do enjoy entertaining here.

Cheers... Jennifer