The "when did you know" question.

[debstar]

So this is a common topic that pops up. It usually goes along the lines of "When did you know you were a cross dresser", "when did you know you’re were Trans", "when did you start" and so on.

I feel this question, whatever the context, is somewhat pointless and damaging.

People asking or looking, I feel can be divided in to two groups.
1) Those that are looking for affirmation of their own identity.
2) Those looking to prove something.

Firstly it is natural to wonder and question if you are or are not and asking others to affirm yourself in some way by being able to say "yeah I was playing with barbies at the age of 2", "wow so was I".. But now you know that what does it change?

Second is a group that are looking to make a point are looking to validate themselves and/or invalidate others. The theory may go that if an individual had no thoughts of being a girl till they were 50 they are somehow less trans or valid then someone who were ‘sure’ at the age of 10.

If the age you knew or started was relevant it would be a medical criteria for transitioning but no doctor is going to deny ones self-identity at any age because the most important issue is how it affects you NOW, and you feel NOW. The past cannot be changed so who cares.
Why is this relevant?
What am I missing here?

[Lorileah]

It's relevant to get perspective on your own life, it is validation to the CD world. The TS world it really doesn't matter and is more just when the revelation occurred.

[MissDanielle]

My parents keep saying I can't be trans because I never did girly things growing up. I was so shy but I was SELF AWARE by 8th grade and stayed very deep in the closet.

[pamela7]

you're missing that the other person might be curious, might be seeking to understand, that in their world, one day one decides/knows what one is going to do/be in the world ...

in 1978 I decided i would have my career in research (scientific investigation, exploration, discovery, ...), so i knew from then about that.

About CD, hey i only "knew" after the fact earlier this year, makes a lot of sense now.

So the point is a person without a gender dysphoria can't understand a person with one. So they ask the closest questions to their own reality.

[Sky]

Bear in mind that many girls -some young, some not so but new to this- are still trying to find their own path and come here for support, validation, common experiences, etc. So it's natural they want to know what others like them did or felt.

[Rachael Leigh]

I cant exactly pinpoint when I knew I was a bit different but I have memories going to bed and wanting to wake up a girl, it was confusing so even in my early teens I researched things, I read stories of men becoming women. I didnt think that was me so I dismissed it for a while but I kept seeing women and there clothes and really wished I could wear them, never had much access but as many eventually tried on some of moms stuff and I knew then it was something I wanted to do.
Your right about those in our 50s Ive finally accepted myself as gender fluid and it took a long time to figure that out and now I understand it will prob never be gone and Im really glad to have found this place too.
Leigh

[Kate Simmons]

For myself it's all just part of being myself which I accepted long ago. We are all unique individuals and this just happens to be the gift some of us have. It's also a way to gain perspective as Lori said.:battingeyelashes::)

[debstar]

I think the main take away I would advise any one asking this question is why care? it does not matter to who you are now. You are valid in who you are when ever you come to what ever realization it is about your self.

YOU - YOU and how YOU feel is important not how other people find them selves. Sure it is interesting hearing about others journeys

For my part the idea of CD or Trans did not compute - despite actually cross-dressing ( I know it was a terrible contradiction ).

[Tina_gm]

It's relevant to get perspective on your own life, it is validation to the CD world. The TS world it really doesn't matter and is more just when the revelation occurred.
Not looking for argument, but just wondering about the validation you are speaking of. In my case at least, I fought to not validate it for nearly 30 years. I still, if given an opportunity would invalidate it. It is a tremendous challenge and difficulty in life. I am only accepting this of myself nowadays. I am not personally looking for any validation really. My goal is to find as much ability to enjoy life and find peace and comfort within myself.

[Pat]

I think it's pretty natural and not at all confined to CDs. I've been a motorcyclist since I was 16 (now in my 60's) and long-term riders as a class seem to spend a lot of time trying to find what makes them riders. They come up with stories from their childhood that they feel foreshadowed their life-long obsession with riding. But in the end, like crossdressers, when asked to explain it, they say "If you don't know, I can't tell you." I've experienced the same with musicians, magicians, actors, engineers, gay folks, shooters, cops -- everyone wants to know they're "on the right track;" everyone looks for telltale signs that show they're meant to be what they are. And everyone finds them.

Yes, it makes no difference. Yes, people asking themselves and others about this is like ducks quacking -- it's just something they do. When ducks quack I usually tune it out. If quacking ducks bother me, I try to figure out why -- because it has to be something in me, it's not the ducks. ;)

[debstar]

I think it's pretty natural and not at all confined to CDs.

Thanks Jennifer I think you nailed it by abstracting away from CD/TS as I thought it was the exclusive domain of.

[Jenniferathome]

I think you're missing common sense. Every intro I have read on this forum touches on "finding other people like me." By asking HOW alike, it allows introspection on oneself. It does't change who or what I am, but may provides some impetus to do so should one want to change. People ask the proverbial "why am I here" question all the time. Books have been written and words of people killed over it. It does't change that we are here. I think people generally are looking for a connection and this is one.

[NicoleScott]

As Jennifer said "finding other people like me". Younger CDers have a couple of advantages over older ones. First, there was no internet back then, which means there was no way to determine if there were others like me. Also, revealing that you crossdressed (getting caught) brought about much different responses. I wonder how many boys were hauled off to a shrink for a cure.....let's try some aversion therapy and see how that goes. So we kept CDing to ourselves, having no way to safely seek out others like us. For me, the best I could do was to read psychology books and Penthouse Forum.
Knowing I'm not some sexual deviant freak matters to me.

[sometimes_miss]

everyone looks for telltale signs that show they're meant to be what they are. And everyone finds them.
Not everybody. I think that's pretty much restricted to those who think that they are on this earth 'for a reason', or think that there is some purpose for their existance. It's an egocentric belief created by the need to feel as if we're important somehow; I hear it all the time, 'I was put here on this earth for a reason'. Well, perhaps not. Maybe our existance is simply random chance, and there is no reason for it. For many, that's too harsh a reality to accept.

When did I know?
It's hard to say; I 'knew', or learned, that I wasn't what I was supposed to be the first time the guy who molested me told me that god made a mistake and I was really supposed to be a girl. I didn't completely figure it all out for about another 30 years. So, somewhere it that timeframe.

[Midasgirl]

I'd been dressing up regularly in my mother's clothes for several months before I kind of admitted it to myself. I recall staring at myself in the mirror one night, dressed in my mom's satin pjs, and thinking "This makes me a transvestite..."
And it kind of excited me to admit that while dressed.

[JanePeterson]

I had a great "dress and repress" routine down until 3 weeks ago.... There are different degrees of "knowing" I guess

[Robin414]

I agree that it happens well before birth but it IS a concious decision...here's a documentary proving that hypothesis 😉

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFwEjo2zRfs

[Jazzy Jaz]

I think it is short sighted to limit this to only two explanations. Some people are very intellectual and analytical and are just generally curious and tend to study life. What makes scientists be interested in the different fields that they work in. Some people may be very fascinated with gender or the evolution of individuals over thier lives. Look at journalists and people who write biographies about people who interest them, and its natural to be drawn to people who you can relate to and have things in common with and to be interested in their stories. This doesn't automatically mean that you are insecure about yourself and need validation, perhaps for some folks but other folks may just simply be interested.

[Jonni Lin]

I guess I really knew when I was CD or Gender Fluid for a better 'label' for myself when I ordered my girls, before that I was just confused and a little curious. Will I change more, who knows, maybe but for now I am truly happy with myself.

[Beverley Sims]

I knew I was a cross dresser the day I wore my first dress.

I enjoyed it and felt it was a great past time.

I have never bothered to evaluate it, discuss it with any one and I probably never will.

[Wen4cd]

I think people like to feel secure in something. Some folks like to judge the validity of a Trans life on age started, others judge it on extent of it in the daily life, how far into transition. whether it has a fetishist element or not, anything that works.

[tiffanynjcd24]

I knew I was a cd or gf since 13. It was under a tragic circumstances

[debstar]

Ha ha, I have created one of those threads.

[Wen4cd]

Ha ha, I have created one of those threads.

Your thread title was just too close ...to the abyss!

[S. Lisa Smith]

i knew i was a cross dresser the day i wore my first dress.

I enjoyed it and felt it was a great past time.

I have never bothered to evaluate it, discuss it with any one and i probably never will.
bingo!!!!

[MarciManseau]

But the question is when, not why.

I knew when I was about 3 and my sister insisted I dress up in her clothes.

[Ozark]

My wife and I are sitting with our computers on our laps and watching the tv.

I mentioned to her the subject of this thread and said to her that I never considered myself a CD or transvestite because "I never wore dresses or make-up. Nah," I said, "I stuck with jeans, earthtones clothes, women's unisex tops and shell, and plain jane vanity fair hipsters, they could be
men's nylon bikinis."

My wife told me otherwise, with a laugh, "Ozark, you are a transvestite, now go get me a beer."

Yes!

[Ally 2112]

Im one of the older cross dressers here and had urges for quite awhile before i finally wore my first dress .I didn't realize i was a cross dresser until i read about it in Ann Landers .Until then i figured i just like to wear dresses and was quite alone in this

[Robin777]

I figured out I was a CD when I graduated from just wearing my mother panties and put on a bra,slip and pantyhose and a dress. Then I realized how good it felt and like it completed me. I was 12 or 13.

[Sc0rp10N]

In all honesty, I was just sort of in what I think is what some of you refer to as pink fog, all excited about this new thing. I wanted to dress a LOT after the first night, I spent $300 on breast forms, waist cincher, heels and makeup. I came here looking for answers, but, in the end, it came down to one thing- just being comfortable with yourself. It was new and exciting, I wanted to ride it through, so to speak, and it hasn't finished with me yet, so, again, varying degrees. And again, the most important thing is being comfortable with yourself. I'm comfortable. Not gender fluid, not trans, just comfortable.

[Jacqueline StGermain]

4. Got busted trying on schoolmates shoes at 5(kindergarten) a nice pair of shiny black patent leather Mary Janes .
I didn't know what it was or why, just knew I had to.
50 years later, still going better than ever.

[Lacey New]

I figured out I was a CD when I graduated from just wearing my mother panties and put on a bra,slip and pantyhose and a dress. Then I realized how good it felt and like it completed me. I was 12 or 13.
Pretty much ditto to Robin's experience. For me, it definitely started with panties but soon the excitement grew to trying on bras, slips and pantyhose.. By that time, I was hooked (only 2 hooks back then, now I need three)

[Tashee]

Never recall not dressing to some extent. I was Teens when Like Steve Martin In The Movie The Jerk-his infamous line hit me. "You mean I going to stay this way"? Little word play. But I never knew anything different, now that did suck for some years attempting to figure out who or what: What in a bad way who as-well I am. One day It settled & here I am, I'm doing well. IDK what others think as we all have (that) something that if others knew would. So I know 99.999% of the Population has a secret that they would never want me to know, so if the bash I know the are hiding something. Again IDK because if they bash I really don't respect their opinion anyway--Sorry I digressed. I Knew L8 Teens. & It was a shocker because I always dressed but thought I'd grow out of it??? Be well Merry Holiday--If Your Christian Merry Christmas.

[becky77]

Firstly it is natural to wonder and question if you are or are not and asking others to affirm yourself in some way by being able to say "yeah I was playing with barbies at the age of 2", "wow so was I".. But now you know that what does it change?

Second is a group that are looking to make a point are looking to validate themselves and/or invalidate others. The theory may go that if an individual had no thoughts of being a girl till they were 50 they are somehow less trans or valid then someone who were ‘sure’ at the age of 10.


Just curiosity, common experience who knows.
But the only time I ever see anyone take exception to this is when they themselves didn't experience it.
Do I invalidate you because I had an idea from the get go? I can't see how, but for some reason this is often said by late bloomers, perhaps you should look at your insecurity rather than pick apart others stories?

Personally I would have loved a happy childhood like yours, then maybe I wouldn't have such low confidence and self esteem. As it was Gender dysphoria ruined my life, it really isn't anything to boast about.
I don't understand how you can reach 40 without knowing, that's not because I wish to invalidate you or validate myself, it's because it's been so prevalent in my life I'm surprised it's not in others.

[debstar]

Just curiosity, common experience who knows.

Hi Becky,

Yes you have basically exactly hit on my personal circumstance. I started cross dressing at 20'ish, but rather then identifying with why I felt wrong as Gender Dysphoria, I just ruined my life in other ways with depression, anxiety, drugs, alcohol, weird risky activities all in some vain unconscious attempt to protect myself from the truth.

The feeling of being wrong, or an alien in the world was just about those feelings. I never knew why I felt that way but always had. I hated my self and a lot of other people and would isolate my self from most social situations or limit how much conversation of a personal nature I would have with anyone worried they might have a personal insight (much like you just did) that would cause me to reflect to deeply.

I regret to say that I was brought up to understand that Transsexuals were an abomination (no offense that was just my environment) so that as an explanation for what was wrong with me did not even compute and it is something I have been battling with yes for up to 40 years now.

I would not say my child hood was happy BTW but that's another story and related.

So yes I am at least in the group of those that did not know at an early age but I'm turning the corner now and hope to make up for lost time. I'm quite angry and pissed off with my own narrow mindedness that prevented me from coming to this realization sooner.

Some of that anger can pop out in this forum from time to time so I apologize for that.

Thanks Becky for just calling me out so correctly.

Debs.

[becky77]

No offense taken. Transsexuals were weirdos that scared me, I never knew I was one.

I knew from the get go I was different and wanted to be a girl, it still took three decades to realise I could and I had to. It's amazing how much you can delude yourself and hide from the truth.

I have so much to be bitter about but we can't change the past, we can only try and improve on the future.
It's hard but making progress is the most productive way to help our emotions.
Unfortunately once the decision is made everything feels so slow, it's not easy being patient once the door is open.

[MissDanielle]

I only came to terms last month and I'm just beginning to start down that road.

[JaimeCD]

So for me I will probably be a little different (usually am), but in terms of recognizing it came out of my wife and I trying to have a female led relationship (when we are this way things are so much better for both of us but it is a hard thing to really make happen). But as part of it she started having me wears panties.

The wearing panties really made me realize there was more to this then just her having control. Then I started to think and there were a lot of things in my youth that I just did not recognize but it was there (to include buying and wearing a pair of panties in college)

My wife has been great with it and even named Jamie but I struggle with this a lot. But I seem to finally be embracing it and not fighting it feels so much better.

[Angie G]

I know I was a crossdresser at about age 10 or so.:hugs:
Angie

[Kelly63]

I think around 6 for me

[Helen_Highwater]

Hi Becky,

I regret to say that I was brought up to understand that Transsexuals were an abomination (no offense that was just my environment) so that as an explanation for what was wrong with me did not even compute and it is something I have been battling with yes for up to 40 years now.

Debs.

That statement perhaps differentiates the experiences of the generations. Men in women's clothing appeared on TV as comedy acts, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVLtJxBqtSA panto dames, openly gay performers often parodied themselves. UK folks will know what I mean when I say "Shut that door". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7NDyvy0DPI

In recent times thankfully being gay has ceased to be a crime and with it a greater understanding and tolerance. Younger CD's while not living in a totally accepting society know it's not all bad out there and have the protection of anti discrimination laws. Like Debs though my early dressing experiences(late teens/early 20's pre internet) I though of my dressing as more of a fetish, something workmates would ridicule if they knew. I don't think I knew what crossdressing was, can't remember ever seeing a CD during my youth. Hearing the whispered, "that's a man" from startled parents.

So the when did you know question for me is more about a gradual knowing and understanding, having a truer definition of what it was I enjoyed doing than an actual date of mirror gazing. I've worn women's clothing since I was a child. I've been a CD for perhaps a third of the last of 6 decades.

[Angela Marie]

I began wearing my mothers tights when I was about 10 or 11. Basically I knew then. Of course growing up in the 1960's any display be a male of feminine attributes was considered shameful. The societal pressures to conform to gender stereotypes was overwhelming. Thankfully for those growing up today the situation is improving. I was just born at the wrong time. But i'm lucky to still be young enough to enjoy the change in attitudes.

[binair10]

There is no timetable for when you are going to start. It just sort of... HAPPENS. But enjoy it when it does.

Julie.

[St. Eve]

Wow, I so much appreciate this thread!!

I had worn everything in my mom's closet and dresser by the time I was 10. Single mom working left me with time at home by myself. I had started sometime earlier with mom's panties from the clothes hamper by age 7.
I come from a family of depression, shame, and secrets, so it is easy for me to see why I made CDing and my fantasies of being a woman so secretive.
For a long time, the process became sexualized, so that added to the shame and secrets. NO ONE talked about sex in my family. After an epic fail at coming out to my wife about 23 years ago, everything went back underground until 2008 when I got abstinent from CDing to sober up from sexual compulsivity. After 6 years sober and six years of abstinence from using women's clothing to masturbate, the door has busted back open and I am accepting my gender non-comforming status and attempting to stay married with an SO who may not ever be able to accept my outwardly expressed gender queerness. It is amazing to wear female clothes and feel so feminine and finally get to express my internal experience into the world without all the secrets and shame and without it having to be about sex.

So, here I am at almost 50 trying to slowly break all the rules. I am very grateful for this forum and my wonderful friends who are supporting me in going through the SLOW process of coming to peace with myself - CD and gender fluid for sure, maybe predominately female gendered....time will tell.

Peace
EvaLyn

[kittie60]

At age 10 I knew I was different, just how different I found out at 15, and what a shocker that was.

[Saikotsu]

Sometimes it's just idle curiosity. Everyone is different in when they figured it out, or at least started trying. Others, it's like you said. They want to compare their experience with anothers, or they feel a person isn't whatever because they didn't always know or didn't know by x amount of time.

I know in my case, it was always disconcerting that some people knew from when they were 3 whereas it took me until college to figure it out.