What is full time? (pls no drama lolz)

[whowhatwhen]

I've been talking a bit with others about this and we seem to disagree on what full time means.
I mentioned how upset I was at myself about how I'm still not full time yet and they tell me that because my appearance is female that I'm already full time.

Does consistently passing (or at least people being kind) mean your full time?
I disagree but its obvious there's room for discussion here.

Like, I'll get addressed female ~95% of the time yet I still have a male ID and male ID and crap like that so I don't consider myself full time.
Yet friends have said that doesn't matter.

What's your take?

[Robin414]

Not sure I even qualify to post here but I 'feel' like a woman 'full time'...I act like a woman 66% of the time...add weekends etc (yah, I still struggle and over compensate at work), I don't 'pass' unless I try, but im 'full time' just ME and people are actually very kind when presenting that way (actually more so than when I was a...guy oddly enough).

Please don't take my post out of context, I'm not trying to be 'snarky' (the bane of social media and the birth of emoticons ☺ )
I guess my take is this forum might need a 'tween' group?

[Contessa]

I might say to you that I believe that living full time means that you no longer look like a cis man. I don't have a female I'd either. Yet when I walk out my front door I look very femme. I am a trans woman a fem male so to speak. I want to be thought of as a female but I can't force anyone think I am. I do my very best to look feminine. I get ma'am most of the time. I haven't been sired but don't care if I am. I know who and what I am. Full time has to be when you look femme at least 16-20 hrs a day 7 days a week. It is really up to you. What say you now?
Contessa

[becky77]

There is a sticky now for definitions.

It's living 100% of the time in that role, no going back.

In your particular case last I I heard. Your Dad doesn't know you are TS, you have male ID and you're still struggling with female toilets do you think that's full-time?
If you applied for a job who would it be as?

That's full-time as a woman as this is the TS forum.
Unless you mean full-time as a Transgender person whatever that could mean?

[Nicole Erin]

It means getting a job in your new role. Like a typical 9 to 5 type gig or even part time (as companies love doing that crap).
Once you cross that barrier, nothing else really matters a whole lot.

I would say also once you have done other things you thought were impossible in the new role like dating women (if that is your thing).

[Carlene]

Robin, I very much agree with you. By the forum's definition many of us are not full-time and therefore not transitioning or transitioned. I understand this and respect those who feel we can't know what it feels like to live as a woman.

Your idea of a tween place may or may not be practible but it is a nice thought. After all, even though I don't present full-time or live the life, I know how I feel and who I would prefer to be. I believe that a Genie in a bottle is still a Genie, whether other not anyone can see her.

Just my thoughts,
Carlene

[dreamer_2.0]

I'm frankly confused by OP's question, not because I think it's a bad question, merely because the concept has always seemed rather black and white and obvious to me. I've always interpreted full-time as exactly that, living full-time as your target gender. It has nothing to do with passing or how one "feels" per se, but everything to do with you living as female 100% of the time. Being able to pass and having your ID match your presentation would very likely help making full-time a bit easier but I don't think they are the be all and end all of full-time.

For me, I'm barely even part-time and continue living as "him" in 95% of my life. I am transitionING, but very far from being transitionED. Full-time would be just about the opposite of what I'm doing. I would, sorry I should say I WILL, be Holly in all social and private settings and NOT revert back to being "him".

To me, full-time has always been the moment I can finally give a big final F-You to "him" and leave him in the dirt behind me.

[LeaP]

I'm frankly confused by OP's question, not because I think it's a bad question, merely because the concept has always seemed rather black and white and obvious to me. I've always interpreted full-time as exactly that, living full-time as your target gender.


Exactly right.

[Kimberly Kael]

Dreamer Girl is spot on from my perspective as well. I am clearly trans and have been my entire life. I was frequently read as female and dressed androgynously by choice. I was not, however, anything I'd consider full-time until I was making a concerted effort to ensure that everyone I interacted with understood that I expected to be accepted as female. That meant coming out to friends, family, coworkers, doctors, and so forth.

I can completely understand someone with financial constraints not having a whole new wardrobe or getting all their ID updated. Living as your identified gender isn't about buying things. It's about proudly asserting who you are. I would assume that if you have to carry mismatched ID you'd still explain on presenting it what your preferred name is.

I wouldn't say work is the final frontier. I know some who live part-time, presenting as female at work but not at home. Those are rarer cases but they do exist. Much more common is "full time except work, doctors, when anyone visits, when buying cars, etc." which I tend to think is just self-delusional.

[whowhatwhen]

In your particular case last I I heard. Your Dad doesn't know you are TS, you have male ID and you're still struggling with female toilets do you think that's full-time?

It's not full time, and that's what I was struggling with.
The fact that being read female close to all the time means nothing, yet I've had others disagree and that makes me feel worse.

I'm so incredibly hard on myself for it that you could even suggest I made this thread to feed my own negativity :)

[dreamer_2.0]

You may not be 100% yet but being read as female close to all the time makes it sound like you're just about there. It's a shame you feel some negativity from this, Im admittedly quite envious of your being read female most of the time. That said, it would probably be quite frustrating too being so close, yet not close enough, not actually there. You're getting closer though, bit by bit.

[Rianna Humble]

By the forum's definition many of us are not full-time and therefore not transitioning or transitioned.

I just checked, and nowhere in the definitions sticky does it say that you have to be full-time to be transitioning.

As far as I understand it, full-time is the opposite of part-time. If you are still doing some thing(s) as your birth gender (be it work or any other activity) then you are not full-time. That is NOT a comment on where you may be on the road of transition.

[Angela Campbell]

Full time is full time. Nothing to do with how you feel or whether you pass. It is having all parts of your life being in the target gender. All family, friends, employers, know, the guy at the gas station, everyone knows, all ID is showing the target name and gender, all day, every day, holidays and weekends included. Not ever going back to the original gender for any reason.

Anything else is part time. Don't have the funds to change name or id? Still not full time. Can't tell work? Not full time. Family doesn't know, not full time.

It's simple, full time is full time. Reasons why not there yet still don't change that. If that makes someone mad, I'm sorry, but facts are facts.

[whowhatwhen]

Don't worry about making me upset lol.
These are the exact responses I expected :P

Besides I may have had too much of something last night when I posted this.
Carrot cake. That's it. Carrot cake.

[Zooey]

Not sure I even qualify to post here but I 'feel' like a woman 'full time'...I act like a woman 66% of the time...add weekends etc (yah, I still struggle and over compensate at work), I don't 'pass' unless I try, but im 'full time' just ME and people are actually very kind when presenting that way (actually more so than when I was a...guy oddly enough.

What you have described is the condition of being trans, not the condition of being full-time.


Robin, I very much agree with you. By the forum's definition many of us are not full-time and therefore not transitioning or transitioned. I understand this and respect those who feel we can't know what it feels like to live as a woman.

i don't see "full-time" as a term that can really be redefined, so I'm honestly not sure what other definition you would (or even could) possibly propose. I FEEL like i want to eat nothing but burritos all the damn time, but unless every meal is a burrito I'm not really a full-time burrito eater.

Like others have said though, full-time is not a requirement to be "in transition". Full-time is a step in the (looooong) process that is transition.


It means getting a job in your new role. Like a typical 9 to 5 type gig or even part time (as companies love doing that crap).
Once you cross that barrier, nothing else really matters a whole lot.

Umm, what? You don't need a job to be full-time... You just need to be, y'know, full-time.

[Angela Campbell]

I'm pretty sure that it is impossible to eat too much carrot cake. ....

I've tried

[Eryn]

I don't think that there is any ambiguity. Full time is when one never presents as a male.

I'm not full time, since I still present as a male for work. Simple!

[Bria]

Full time is when all of the guy clothes go to goodwill?

Hugs, Bria

[Frances]

I feel it means having transitioned socially, but not necessarily legally. That means using your chosen name at all times and not reverting to a prior identity because it's more convenient. (I feel) It means asserting your identity and correcting people who misgender you, at work, with relatives, with businesses. All this whether you pass or not. There is a definite line that is crossed. Another one may be crossed later with the legal and/or surgical confirmation.

Giving all your old clothes to Goodwill is a pretty good indication as well.

[Robin414]

@Zooey - THANK YOU for acknowledging that, I'm a 'fluid tween' but fluids tend to pool, right? 😉

[PretzelGirl]

I feel it means having transitioned socially, but not necessarily legally. That means using your chosen name at all times and not reverting to a prior identity because it's more convenient. (I feel) It means asserting your identity and correcting people who misgender you, at work, with relatives, with businesses. All this whether you pass or not. There is a definite line that is crossed. Another one may be crossed later with the legal and/or surgical confirmation.

Giving all your old clothes to Goodwill is a pretty good indication as well.

I like Frances' take. To continue, whether you "pass" or not is not even in the equation. I have friends that will probably never "pass" unfortunately, but they are certainly full time. And I disagree with the ID. There are sometimes legal issues keeping us from getting name changes or the magic gender marker change. It doesn't make a person any less full time, just paperwork deprived.

[Contessa]

Sorry for posting something I know nothing about.

[Rianna Humble]

Contessa, I cannot see who told you off and suggested you know nothing about what you shared, but you are welcome to join in the discussion.

Like all of us, though, you may find your words challenged from time to time. That is part of discussion and is not generally intended to shut you up.

I suspect that if someone contacted you privately to make that suggestion then they may have been pursuing their own agenda.

[Marcelle]

For me it is about living your life as you were meant to live it and in my case it is as a woman both in my private and public life. In my public life I don't pass whatsoever but it does not stop me from interacting, working and socializing as a woman. The exterior may seem out of sorts but my interior gender is woman. In my private life I don't get all dolled up to do outdoor chores, I shave as close as I can (still plagued by this great Northern European beard of mine but getting better), dress in work clothes, no wig and just have at it. Do I look guy? Probably to the passer by but I am still a woman. I run, its my thing and I do so in women's running clothes but make-up . . . not happening and wigs are too hot, so again do I look like a guy wearing women's running clothes? Probably but I am still a woman. For me it is a sense of living my life all day knowing I am a woman and my physiology and genetics does not change that.

I am also not convinced that ID and legal gender change is needed to define full time. I live all day as a woman and my ID (male) is never called into question when on the rare occasion I have to present it. My military ID has my photo as female but my sex designation is "male". For me the "sex" defines my genetic sex (XY born and XY I will die) however it does not make me less of a woman (in my own opinion).

Cheers

Marcelle

[Angela Campbell]

When asked for ID and the ID shows a man's name and a M on the gender, you are presenting as a man, at least for the moment.

I know some have difficulties in getting the legal stuff done, but without it you still have times you are not full time.

[Marcelle]

Angela

I guess we'll have to disagree. My ID does not define me and it definitely does not decide if I am full time.

[Kimberly Kael]

When asked for ID and the ID shows a man's name and a M on the gender, you are presenting as a man, at least for the moment.

Not if you're prepared to point out the typo. That's the same logic that had the perpetrator of the recent Colorado Spring shooting labelled as transgender. Yes, his ID listed his gender as female, but it was simply wrong.


I know some have difficulties in getting the legal stuff done, but without it you still have times you are not full time.

... and if you live in a state that doesn't allow the change, you can't be full-time? It should be a question of whether you're ready to put yourself out there consistently, not a measure of the legal restrictions others enact to restrict you. No therapist is going to deny that you've been living in your intended gender for RLE purposes just because your hands are tied on the identification front.

[Carlene]

Zooey, I don't propose to change definitions, but I do think transsexualism is not only about living the life of a woman full-time. It is also about how one feels and identifies. Please, don't get me wrong. I know that those who have gone the distance and are now physically women, or are making strides to be so, have a wealth of experience very foreign to me and I have great respect for these women.

What I really intended in my original post was to show support to Robin's suggestion of a need for a "tween" forum.

In any event, I meant no disrespect ...... Just venting, I guess, but I still believe a Genie in a bottle is still a Genie, whether we can see her or not. Maybe, like me, she is just stuck.

[Zooey]

What I really intended in my original post was to show support to Robin's suggestion of a need for a "tween" forum.

For what it's worth, I agree with the two of you on the potential need for such a forum. I don't know how many people there are on this site who would frequent such a thing, and what it would take to justify creating it, but it seems a worthwhile area of discussion on its own.

Also, I didn't feel disrespected - just bemused. :)

[Eryn]

When asked for ID and the ID shows a man's name and a M on the gender, you are presenting as a man, at least for the moment.

What this statement says is that being male or female depends upon the say-so of a government bureaucrat.

That runs counter to just about everything I have heard from gender experts and to my own beliefs.

I define myself, not the state. I may not yet be full-time, but it has nothing to do with a letter on a piece of plastic.

[whowhatwhen]

When asked for ID and the ID shows a man's name and a M on the gender, you are presenting as a man, at least for the moment.


Not gonna argue and say I'm full time but I most definitely do not present male, as, imho the phrase "presenting as male" means you're putting forth a masculine look/male identity.

Handing over the ID can range from cute to embarrassing to humiliating as ****, though.
I'm working on it but there's been challenges :/

[Rianna Humble]

I most definitely do not present male, as, imho the phrase "presenting as male" means you're putting forth a masculine look/male identity.

Full time is not about presentation - otherwise there are some cross-dressers I know who would have to qualify.

As long as someone still interacts with some other people (including parents) in their originally assigned gender, then they are not living 100% in their real gender. That is not saying that they are not trans* or that they don't have some gender dysphoria (to whatever degree) but "full-time" means no exceptions.

A while ago in this forum, someone coined the phrase "full time except ..." There is a simpler way of saying that - "part time".

[Angela Campbell]

What this statement says is that being male or female depends upon the say-so of a government bureaucrat.

That runs counter to just about everything I have heard from gender experts and to my own beliefs.

I define myself, not the state. I may not yet be full-time, but it has nothing to do with a letter on a piece of plastic.


when you hand over the I'd. ...you are telling them who you are.

lol....I knew this would make some angry.

[Frances]

Even when presenting ID, you can be full time. The lack of legal confirmation does not mean they get to call you sir or whatever. You can have a carry letter from the therapist saying that you want to be addressed by your chosen name and be called sir or madam.

I changed my name and legal status more than 6 months after SRS. I was full-time all the time way before that. No one called me sir, even after seeing my ID or name on a bill (or other legal document).

Here is the thing. Full time is not an opinion of the people interacting with you, it's an affirmation of identity by the individual. ID has nothing to do with it.

[STACY B]

I wasn't going to say Nothing (BUT) I can't resist ,,lol,, Full Time ? Now that is a Mighty Bold statement, My personal opinion is just what it is FULL TIME ALL THE TIME,,,, Work, Home, Class reunion , Family reunion, Weddings, Deaths, Christmas, ALL the TIME,, FULL TIME, No Man Time at ALL. Just my opinion,, But I think it speaks for itself!

Full Time is a hard Row to Plow, Don't know if I will EVER be Full Time,, Depends on the Meds,,lol,,,

[Marcelle]

when you hand over the I'd. ...you are telling them who you are.

lol....I knew this would make some angry.

LOL . . . I don't have to hand anything over for people to know I was born male . . . believe me they know. For me it does not matter, I know who I am and changing my ID does not confirm or disconfirm that in anyone's eyes least of all mine :)

Cheers

Marcelle

[Zylia]

On a related note, in the Netherlands, there are plans to remove gender registration from the civil registry entirely, meaning that there may not be an "F" or "M" at all on government issued IDs in the near future. Does that mean I can be "fulltime" all the time? :D

[Rianna Humble]

Well Zylia, you can't be full-time any less than all of the time, so I guess the answer to your question may well be "yes, when you go full-time it will be all of the time"

[Eryn]

On a related note, in the Netherlands, there are plans to remove gender registration from the civil registry entirely, meaning that there may not be an "F" or "M" at all on government issued IDs in the near future.

To me, that is an ideal solution.

Unfortunately, when I last mentioned that the reaction was not pleasant. Too many people have jumped through hoops and feel that everyone else should have to jump through the same hoops to achieve their status.

[Zylia]

Well Zylia, you can't be full-time any less than all of the time, so I guess the answer to your question may well be "yes, when you go full-time it will be all of the time"
But that wasn't my question. Still, thank you for explaining what the word fulltime actually means.

[Donnagirl]

I guess I'm full time in so much as I now never wear anything boy, if I go out its wig and makeup and, to a certain extent I 'sort of' pass. (Or I get treated as female buy the public and others I interact with.) I still have boy ID but I'm in the process of changing it over with everything else on boy name to follow.
To counter my own claim, I still have boy clothes in the wardrobe, still have some boy interaction, social media etc and if I get back to work, I still have male ID. I must add though that the though of dressing 'boy' to go out is repellent...

[Suzanne F]

I hated this discussion when I still presented as male for work. It made me feel less than as compared to people who were out at work. So please do not feel that way if that is the case for you. However, those women who said being out at work is the huge elephant in the room were correct. Life is much different today as a full time woman. Full time is simply being yourself no matter what!
Suzanne