In the Womb

[KatieZ]

Here's something to ponder.

Two main theories exist of why we are who we are. Nature or nurture. How about both?

We are all conceived with XX chromosomes and some of us had a Y thrown in. (hmmm Y why).

In nature perhaps the Y didn't develop as strong from a nutritional, physical, or genetic perspective.

Nurture would be more in your adolescent environment.

Women talk to their babies and play music for them when they are in the womb. It stands to reason that we absorb sound or more likely tone when we are in the womb. We are somewhat preconditioned there.

If a woman spends the vast majority of her time with other females chatting about makeup and clothes and just girlie things in general the baby would pick up on the innuendo of the talking and laughter. If their was not a male present on a regular basis the baby will not be as familiar with identifying as a male and revert back to the feminine that he knew in the womb.

And just as a group of females talk about the more mundane aspects of being female, some may be more prone to talking about sex and such. Which would tend to influence the baby to be bi. And a woman that talked mostly about men and sex and maybe even had regular sex well into their pregnancy may produce a gay child.

I know I was most likely surrounded by my mother and 2 sisters, one 4 years older and the other 12. I had a brother that was 8 years older, but growing up I really don't remember him being around. He was a loner and the first to leave the nest. My father was there but, at 50 years old when I was born, married life and a new baby on the way was just more of an annoyance than something that he would participate in. So I am sure I was privy to a lot of female conditioning and very little with male.

Can the environment in the womb alter the developement of the Y Chomosome?

Think about what it must have been like when you were in the womb and tell me what you girls think, has this idea got any merit?



Hugs

[Kimberley]

Oh I am a FIRM believer in nature first. Environment shapes how we deal with that, and keeps a lot of therapists in business.....

Hugs.

Kimberley

[Maria D]

Well, the sex chromosomes are slightly different to the others, and tend to have fairly minor variation across the population (so studies say). The Y is not going to be influenced by the enviroment of the womb, and doesn't 'develop', it's just used to code for proteins that ultimately cause processes to occur that make you what you are. It's more likely that something interfered or changed those processes rather than the chromosome or the transcription.
Enviroment-wise, I don't really believe that listening to women chat about sex is likely to in any way alter the child's sexuality, or feminise them. It's entirely possible that a developing child perceives sound, but interprets? No, they don't speak or understand the language. My cat perceives me, and can tell from my tone what mood I'm conveying, but that's all. I wouldn't expect a developing child to understand more than a cat without first learning the language, and that takes time and more development.

That's my thoughts on it anyway; it's more likely to be something different about the development, rather than external enviroment or the Y. It could perhaps also be a combination of many genes on multiple chromosomes causing it too, who knows?
Take care
xxx

[Maria D]

Oh I am a FIRM believer in nature first. Environment shapes how we deal with that, and keeps a lot of therapists in business.....

Hugs.

Kimberley

If only we could prove it. I suppose identical twins being different people due to different upbringings would show any differences.
Babies tend to show personalities early on (my nephew Jake is a right character) but I suppose as 'things' happen to you, you learn different situations and who you are changes as you learn, so, yeah, not really sure. Both I suppose. +?

[Kimberley]

I just hope the neoconservative researcher trying to find that defective gene so we can be fixed dies trying.... LOL

This is a very grey area and as you said, twins. My wife is a youth counsellor (go figure) and she is convinced it is all genetics but also believes how we deal with our lot whether gay or transgendered is largely a product of environment as well. (Consider the gay youth who is supported vs the one who is not.)

But as you have said and she also does, there is not enough scientific evidence to support either theory. All we can do is work to make things better for everyone regardless of the circumstances.

There is always hope.

ps. this could be a good discussion topic if others would get into it.

[Laurie Ann]

I have never given a thought to your question. I believe it is what it is and I live with it.

[Aunt Peg]

When my mother was pregnant with me, she wanted a girl. I believe that is at least a part of the puzzle for me.

[KatieZ]

Well, the sex chromosomes are slightly different to the others, and tend to have fairly minor variation across the population (so studies say). The Y is not going to be influenced by the enviroment of the womb, and doesn't 'develop', it's just used to code for proteins that ultimately cause processes to occur that make you what you are. It's more likely that something interfered or changed those processes rather than the chromosome or the transcription.

Interesting. I never really considered just how a chromosome works. Thanx for the info.


Enviroment-wise, I don't really believe that listening to women chat about sex is likely to in any way alter the child's sexuality, or feminise them. It's entirely possible that a developing child perceives sound, but interprets? No, they don't speak or understand the language. My cat perceives me, and can tell from my tone what mood I'm conveying, but that's all. I wouldn't expect a developing child to understand more than a cat without first learning the language, and that takes time and more development.

I wasn't implying that the child would understand the spoken word, but rather the tone and emotions. And in so doing finding a comfort zone in the feminine environment.



Hugs

[the475574]

When my mother was pregnant with me all the doctors told her I was a girl, and then when I came out I was a little boy, this is why I chose my femme name (Amanda) because it would have been my name. I wonder if this has anything to do with my cross dressing now, because right out of the womb I was wrapped in a pink blanket.

talk to you later
Amanda

[epona999]

:clap:
Well, the sex chromosomes are slightly different to the others, and tend to have fairly minor variation across the population (so studies say). The Y is not going to be influenced by the enviroment of the womb, and doesn't 'develop', it's just used to code for proteins that ultimately cause processes to occur that make you what you are. It's more likely that something interfered or changed those processes rather than the chromosome or the transcription.
Enviroment-wise, I don't really believe that listening to women chat about sex is likely to in any way alter the child's sexuality, or feminise them. It's entirely possible that a developing child perceives sound, but interprets? No, they don't speak or understand the language. My cat perceives me, and can tell from my tone what mood I'm conveying, but that's all. I wouldn't expect a developing child to understand more than a cat without first learning the language, and that takes time and more development.

That's my thoughts on it anyway; it's more likely to be something different about the development, rather than external enviroment or the Y. It could perhaps also be a combination of many genes on multiple chromosomes causing it too, who knows?
Take care
xxx

I think you are right on. I can tell by the way you talk that your are probabl;y in the medical field some way. Babies do hear quite well in the womb but you are correct in assuming they do not understand anything more than tone and feeling. We are what we are because of the Great Unknown :D

Actually research shows that identical twins, that have been adopted to very different environments, have many of the SAME problems and developemental characterisics, no matter the environment they were raised in.

[Alayna]

If there's one thing my experiences have taught me, it's that things are never black and white - meaning I agree Katie that both factors are involved. No one is 100% liberal/conservative/right/wrong, etc.

That said, my theory is that every person has a propensity to be a crossdresser (nature), and that certain environmental factors can "trigger" that desire. Some people are way more likely than others to actually become CD's and some people might or might not be exposed to their trigger at the right time. I think timing is very important - the person has to be receptive to the trigger, and they have to be a young age (maybe) before certain personality traits "solidify". Also, each person's trigger(s) can be totally different: for one it might be touching something silky, for another it might sitting in a chair or something else unrelated.

....I suppose I should mention here that I believe in "chaos theory" (that theory where a butterfly in China affects the weather here by flapping it's wings)

According to this, I'd say that Amanda's pink blanket may have had something to do with her CD'ing - though it also might not have anything to do with it being pink. Other factors including or instead of the blanket could be at work too. She may have had almost no propensity for being a CD and just got a lucky;) trigger at the right time, or she may have been so likely that almost everything could be a trigger.

Hope you don't mind me using you as an example Amanda:cheeky:

We may never know how or why someone decides to crossdress, but when it comes down to it the reason shouldn't matter. Next time you get a losing lottery ticket you could remind yourself that you got a winner on a really, really good lottery ticket:D

[Danai]

That's exactly what i have in mind for crossdressing....

I also believe in chaos theory and i think it's also called the domino prinsiple...We have this affects that which affects this whitch affects that...etc...and we finally come to that....

Crossdressing is a relief...it's an expresion...a second soul inside...another personallity...it's...something great...

There's also a theory on crossdressing
You know why men have neeples?
Well neeples are made for moms to give milk to they're baby's right?
When we all where in our moms's belly it wasn't sure what genre we will have...
So nature desides to give neeples to all embryos so that to be sure that in case it's a girl it would grow to breasts and give milk to the baby...
Well I've read somewere that crossdressers are baby boys who's genre was desided by nature very late so they have both chromosomes,hormones and DNAs from both famale and male...
(hope you understand...my english are a bit rusty)

Kisses to you all girls

[ronda]

you are what you are from birth you or we do not say well i will be a cross dresser it is born in you the same as being gay we all start as female the male part does not devolpe till later we just have some female gene that does not want to give it up. :D

******
i personaly am glad i am me i enjoy having both sides of me it can make life hard sometimes but i enjoy being who i am:D

[Cathy Anderson]

I wasn't implying that the child would understand the spoken word, but rather the tone and emotions. And in so doing finding a comfort zone in the feminine environment.
Right. And not just that, but the emotional aspect of such experiences of the mother could be associated with hormonal patterns in her body which might affect the child also.

Cheers,

Cathy

[TGMarla]

Sorry. I don't think there's anything to it. I'm a twin, and as far as I know, my brother doesn't crossdress. I started doing this rather accidentally, and I do it because I like it, not because I was born in the wrong body, or because of some hormone wash while in vivo. Sometimes I wonder why so many of us still look for "reasons" why we do this. The reason is usually that we choose to change clothing and put on makeup, etc. We enjoy it so much, we choose to do it again....and again. Sooner or later it becomes compulsory. But it's not because of some incident while still in the womb. We should stop trying to project the "fault" on something beyond our own free will and choice. It's our own fault, and our own doing.

[KatieZ]

We should stop trying to project the "fault" on something beyond our own free will and choice. It's our own fault, and our own doing.

It is human nature to want to understand why something is. Why are we here, what's beyond the stars, is there an afterlife?

Did I say something about "fault"? Just because I question why doesn't mean I don't enjoy it. I feel like one of the fortunate few. I quite enjoy being a girl.


Hugs

[swiss_susan]

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0767907639/sr=8-1/qid=1140096388/ref=sr_1_1/002-4815246-9225610?%5Fencoding=UTF8

The above is a link to a book that deals with this issue. Originally Entitled Why Men Lie, and Women Can't Read Maps. It was written by a married couple.

It is a discussion about the whole nature vs. nurture argument. Like any good study it agrees with neither, or rather both. They are intermingled. and largely depend on a case by case basis. A good book about a topic I am sure would interest most of us.

I would have call into question the idea that the conversations given as examples earlier really would have no effect on sexual development, otherwise historically when men and women interacted less particularly during pregnancey the result wold have been more girls, almost to the point of eliminating males altogether.

My view of the whole thing is this we are the sum total of our biology added with our life experience, and a little bit of "je ne sais quoi" thrown in just to make things interesting. :bs:

Susan

[Alystin]

First of all, as to the what and what of the cause to CD'ing and being TG. I believe it's both, nature and nurture!

First nature controls the happenings in the womb. All mammals, human to our lovable pets start off as female (XX chromosomes). Then the Y chromosome is add. Why and how this is determined, only "god" knows. But this has to be done at a specific time. Timing is everything. Once the Y is added, it only causes more things to be added. Now back to the timing. When the fetus is developing everything going on is a chemical reaction. So if we think back to our basic high school chemistry classes, and say take an acid-base titration (making an acid or a base neutral on the pH scale). You had to be extremely careful, add too much of one thing or not enough. Things don't come out the way you intend. Well the same can be said about this too. When the male fetus is developing, if something is added at the wrong time or not enough is added. Then the base building blocks probably will take over and fill in the blanks for that aspect, slightly changing the end results.

Now for the Nature aspect, well everyone has different environments. For me my mom wanted me to be a girl, seeing as though I have three older brothers. But I haven't received a lot of information from my very earlier years, so i can't really comment on the particulars from that. But i have heard rumors from family members that my mom used to dress me up in less than "male" baby clothes.

And from the chaos theory (i.e. this leads to that etc) Things have cause me to be more susceptible to a TG form of life.

But those are just the theories I have developed from my own thinkings into the why and how's. But in the end I still enjoy being just me. What ever the way I may be!

[Cathy Anderson]

Sorry. I don't think there's anything to it. I'm a twin, and as far as I know, my brother doesn't crossdress.
Does he know you crossdress? :)

> I started doing this rather accidentally, and I do it because I like it,

But what determines what we like. Why is it that some men like wearing women's clothes but, presumably, others don't??

Cathy