Dealing with mixed messages

[AnnaBMarie]

Several years ago my SO and our 30 year marriage were at a breaking point. Crossdressing was a factor, but not the major one. We eventually worked it out but never really dealt with my desire to dress. We fell into a DADT situation where I dressed when she was at work and didn't know. She said things, however, that inferred that my dressing would still be a problem.

Then in the past year she has done some things that are very confusing. I've had sore legs for years and one day she brought home some women's support pantyhose and suggested I try them. Then we saw some leggings and tights on sale and we ended up buying a half dozen pair. She is OK if I wear them around the house or to bed. I've even been wearing support hose to work with her knowledge. After putting on some weight in the spring she bought me a shaping camisole which I also wear to work. Two months ago she brings home a Chic Shaper and says to try it to reduce the pain in a sore shoulder. She even dared me to paint my toenails a few weeks ago.

All these things would seem to point to an unspoken acceptance and a change in attitude. I was about to approach her to ask if I could expand my wardrobe when she sees one of the Caitlyn Jenner shows. She just goes off on her for the pain she caused her family by keeping the secret and how being a women is not about wearing pretty clothes and heels, etc., etc. We all know how this story goes.

This just blew me away because I think she was subconsciously substituting my dressing for Caitlyn's. My SO has always maintained that I should have told her from the very beginning, but it took a year with her before I was secure enough to tell her.

Now I'm back in a holding pattern. If I bring up the possibility of expanded dressing I'm sure I'll get a face full of Caitlyn bashing. She knows I want to dress and could have easily encouraged it along with the purchase of the undergarments. Her silence seems to shout out her attitude. I could just enjoy my current limited array of undergarments and be satisfied, but when I put on a pair of stockings the urge to step into a skirt and heels is intense.

Any suggestions?

[carhill2mn]

My suggestion is to pay attention to what your wife is really telling you. Her comments re: Caitlyn Jenner speak volumes. Her gifts of pantyhose and other items are not an invitation for you to do more dressing especially with her. She probably sees them as helping you with some of your problems. I understand your frustration and impatience. However, I think it is prudent to be patient and see if her overall attitude changes. Perhaps, more media coverage of "T" people will help over time. Hang in there.

[Nikki A.]

Tough call, as a person with sore legs also the tights and support hose do help and my wife understood and accepted it, panties were also accepted in that they fit better under the hose.
Your wife may be softening a bit and rationalizing that what she has bought you ( or lets you wear) has a health benefit and can accept seeing you wear them. However going further (skirt & heels) gets into something else. Is it worth pushing and possibly loosing some of your present acceptances?

[Jenniferathome]

Caitlyn Jenner is TRANSITIONING not cross dressing. There is a significant difference there. What you need to do is talk to your wife openly. You have to ask her what her behavior means, if anything.

Something like, "Honey, I am troubled lately. You know I am a cross dresser but I have avoided even talking about it because I thought you hated it and I didn't want to cause you any grief. But lately, you have done and said some things that make me think otherwise. The problem with DADT, I now realize, is that I don't know what you think. Can we talk about it?"

[Dana44]

That is great information Jennifer, I agree that that would be the best way to approach it.

[sometimes_miss]

Her being critical of Jenner is in a different situation. Caitlyn made her life a media circus by making everything public. You haven't done that. So it's not about being TG, it's about what she did publicly. I support what she did, and I know why she did it. I couldn't do that, and I appreciate those who can, and put themselves out there and are willing to take all the abuse that comes with it.
Your wife seems to be at least accepting at this point, if not supportive entirely. Maybe she'll never reach the point where she really wants to see you dressed up like a girl, but, well, most of us wouldn't be thrilled about our GF/wife dressing up and behaving like a guy, either (even though we'd understand and tolerate it more). It does seem as if she still loves you enough to let you indulge in something that isn't of your own choosing, at least when she's not around to have to watch it. You know, kinda like golf to most wives. They let us do it, but they certainly don't want to watch it, do it, talk about it, or otherwise be involved in any way. But they'll still buy us the balls and gloves for presents.
Baby steps. Take things a little at at time. Your wife seems to be doing that. Allow her to continue at her own pace, and thank her frequently for, well, everything she does. You're very lucky, indeed. Don't ever forget that.

[Teresa]

Anna,
There are so many things going on here, most of it is your wife may not understand the grey areas of CDing. The strange thing is some women do have a liking for men wearing women's underwear, it could be a sexual thing, not directly associated with CDing. Once she saw Caitlyn' s TS lifestyle she may have thought you could go the same way, to her wearing underwear in drab is hidden so it's not a problem . To see a man dressed as a woman suggests she could be losing you, I guess you'll have to get to the bottom of why she thought underwear was OK and try and move on from there.
A funny thing happened to me a while ago, my wife doesn't want to see me dressed but she came up behind and ran her hands down my body when I was dressed in drab, when I asked why she did that she replied that she was checking what I was wearing underneath, then gave me a smile .

[AnnaBMarie]

Jennifer points out that Caitlyn is transitioning, but from what I have heard she started out wearing nylons and things while she tried to hide her true self. It is in that context that perhaps my SO is troubled and co-mingling the issues.

Thanks to all of you for your understanding and support. It really does mean the world to me that I can share these feelings with you all. At this point perhaps patience is the best course. Maybe if I wait long enough she'll bring home a dress......

[lingerieLiz]

I think the whole Caitlyn thing has thrown the CD world back some. How much only time will tell. Having her made the brave woman of the year has created a lot of bad feelings from people. I know it was done to sell magazines, but I see postings all over the web with great disdain about it. As much as many on this site have trouble understanding where and who they are in life it is even harder for the uninformed.

Don't push and give her time.

[Suzie Petersen]

Anna,

I would suggest to be careful not to try and read more into it than what is actually there.

First of all, I think her bad reaction about Caitlyn shows her honest feelings about people with gender issues. If she was trying to be understanding of your needs, she would likely either have held her tongue, or made some comments about why Caitlyn is different from you etc etc.

Second, I believe most wifes of CD'ers do not have any chance of understanding what it is we feel inside, even if they try real hard. Men typically being real dorks at explaining anything doesnt help, and since most of us agree that we dont know the reasons ourselves, how could we explain. So bottom line, your wife does not understand how you feel or what CD'ing is about for you.
She might however have accepted that it means something to you, and in an attempt to be nice, she may think that if you can just have some leggings etc, that should cover the need just fine. Problem solved without too much discomfort.
But, shes doesnt understand what this can trigger in your mind.

Third, It is possible that she is rationalizing that the support hose, leggings and even the chic shaper would be helpful to you purely from a health perspective, without even considering that they are female garments and a no-no for a man to wear. My wife would do things sometimes which would make me really wonder if she was mocking me or she just didnt have a clue what feelings it would stirr. I have come to learn, she just honestly doesnt have a clue!
However, the nailpolish does not fit with this, thats a little strange.

Of course, as others suggested, if you relationship allows it, just ask her and let her know you are a little confused by the mixed signals. You can always come here and sleep on the Crossdressers.Com couch if it doesnt work out ;)

Hugs
Suzie

[ReineD]

This is what I think is going on, although I could be wrong.

None of the things your wife bought alter your male appearance (the support pantyhose for sore legs, shaping camis to help you camouflage weight gain, a Chic Shaper to improve posture and reduce shoulder pain, and leggings, tights and painted toe nails to wear around the house or in bed). Kaitlin Jenner, on the other hand, has a female body and she looks and dresses like a woman. Men who are not crossdressers wear things similar to what your wife purchased, except perhaps the leggings and painted toes, but you are requested to only wear these items at home.

Your wife may think you will be satisfied as long as you are wearing anything bought in a woman’s store. So providing you with these things could be a form of damage control meant to minimize a feminine appearance, which is what apparently your wife does object to.

You do need to talk to her. I think Jen (post #4) has a good approach. Your wife needs to know that wearing these things is not enough.

Is it easier for you to not wear anything at all, than to wear things that make you want to slip into a skirt and heels?

[Beverley Sims]

I feel your wife is buying these garments to improve your appearance and ease pain, nothing to do with dressing.

[Claire Cook]

Anna,

Hard to read into this but yes I'd agree with Jennifer, Reine and Beverley. And I think your wife is correct about the Caitlin references. Feeling that you are female inside is deeper than just the clothes.

[Sky]

We eventually worked it out but never really dealt with my desire to dress. ( )
She said things, however, that inferred that my dressing would still be a problem. ( )
All these things would seem to point to an unspoken acceptance and a change in attitude.( )
This just blew me away because I think she was subconsciously substituting my dressing for Caitlyn's. ( )
Her silence seems to shout out her attitude.
Any suggestions?

Assumptions, assumptions, assumptions.

Your post is packed with them. All the highlights are mine: please re-read what you wrote and see how much of it is really in your mind and not necessarily in hers.

Even with people we share our entire life, we can't read minds. That only happens in bad sci-fi movies. As for what is in her subconscious, even she does not know -that's why it's subconscious.

The way out of assumptions is to ask. You think she feels this and that way? Ask her. Maybe she will confirm your assumptions, maybe she will stand on completely opposite sides. Still there is no warranty she will speak her mind -she may hide all or parts of it, or give you an emotional response and change it within minutes. But any of that is preferable to you and you only filling in the blanks. Our own brains are the greatest liars -we can convince ourselves of anything. But other people's mouths tend to be a tad more sincere.

[Angie G]

She just may be trying to lessen your discomfort.:hugs:
Angie

[LeslieSD]

I faced the same situation, and had hard time understanding what my SO is thinking.

From my experience, the problem is with ourselves. Our brain is male (even when we are talking about dressing in woman's clothes). We think in rules and hard logic. We try to analysis, rationale, and put a theory behind all these moves.

A women would not think that way. They do things by feel. When they do this or that, it is not because they reasoned that it is the way to do. They just feel that it is the way to go. So don't question that what they do is not consistent logically. Things in life are usually not with clear cut conclusion. Of course we can analyze it to the bottom. But if you come up to them and ask what they mean by doing that, or if you do A does that mean I am free to do B, you will get a lecture that makes no logical sense in a male mind but makes perfect sense in a female way of feeling.

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Anna:hugs:, Timing is everything. ~~...:doh:...

[docrobbysherry]

The most important thing I learned when my ex and I were seeing a marriage therapist.

Whatever I thot she was thinking was wrong. And, when u want to know what your SO is thinking is to ask her!

[Suzie Petersen]

Docrobbysherry: Whatever I thot she was thinking was wrong. And, when u want to know what your SO is thinking is to ask her!

Yes ... and then try and guess what she meant by her answer ;) (Spoiler alert ... You might be wrong again!!)

- Suzie

[Suzanne F]

Leslie that is so disrespectful. There are women in all kind of professions that utilize reasoning and analysis. You need to reexamine your opinion of women. I guess your goal is to emulate a non rational acting doll. Yes there can be differences between the sexes but never this black and white. I use analysis every day as I interact with the world as a woman as does my wife. I guess we should assume all men are sexist shallow people since you made these comments????
Suzanne

[Marcelle]

Hi Anna,

Kind of late to this thread but to be honest, I would not read too much into this beyond your wife wanting to provide some comfort to your physical ailments. However, there may be some glimmer of hope that she may be somewhat accepting of discussion and perhaps figuring out some mutual boundaries. Jennifer (post 4) sums it up nicely . . . you need to talk to her to truly find out what is going on. Trying to second guess intentions will do no good especially when the person who can answer them is right in front of you. It may be "not on your life will I accept any form of female attire" but then again it could be "perhaps a few things are okay". You won't know until you ask. IMHO communication is the only way forward if messages are mixed and confusing.

Cheers

Marcelle

[Sometimes Steffi]

What's curious to me is that she could have suggested male solutions but she chose to provide you with female solutions.

Sore legs - The make various types of men's compression "pantyhose". Check any drug store.

Leggings and tights - bottom layer for keeping worm in cold weather. Look at L. L. Bean.

Shaping camisole - Compression (exercise) top. look at Sports Authority.

So, I'm confused also.

[Stephanie47]

If you've been married for over thirty years, and, in a DADT then your wife knows you are dressing when she is not at home. I view it as the "ostrich" effect. Stick one's head in the ground and there's nothing to see. My wife is the same way, although many years ago she stopped making comments about cross dressers that she see in the wild or on television. She is sympathetic to transwomen and transmen and gays and lesbians. She may go off on Caitlyn Jenner because she does not represent the average woman.

As to buying you garments that may appear feminine to you, your wife may be seeing it as garments that are more functional than for arousing or playing to one's femininity. I have leg issues due to neuropathy and hosiery is helpful. Why pay big bucks for thigh high stockings, when support pantyhose is cheaper. The same for some neutral slimming garments. Actually, men are buying slimming garments now. My wife tried to address my desire for the feel of nylon with a large piece of nylon fabric to caress my body with and satin men's shorts, but, it was really not the same.

You really need to think about the extent you want to expand your crossdressing, and, whether it is really worth the risk of raising her ire. Will it make you happy at her expense?

[Robin414]

I hear ya Anna! Without going into details I'll say I'm 'suddenly' in a DADT relationship with my wife but just today she 'schooled' me on mascara!

She needed some mascara and we were in the cosmetics depatrment at the grocery store and she said..."Don't use the waterproof stuff, it builds up and your lashes turn into clumps!! 😉 "

I just replied..."Ummm...that makes sense, i guses.!?...😯 "