walkin round in woman's underwear? 😠

[Robin414]

I hear this every season on the local bottom feeder mouth breather radio station (ya, change the station, I know) :

http://shz.am/t47591996

As a CD and possibly TG, I find it law suit worthy offensive! Somebody give me a freaking snickers bar! 😠😠

[Jenniferathome]

Is the world so PC now that one can't joke about cross dressing? It's just an attempt at humor, it's not an indictment against cross dressing.

Should Grandmas sue because 'Grandma got run over by a reindeer'?

[Leslie Langford]

Well, that song isn't actually all that far off the mark, and I would even venture to guess that whoever penned those lyrics probably had a bit of insight into our world.

I'm personally not offended by this song and can even see the humour in it (do we really have to take ourselves so seriously all the time?). Let the mouthbreathers snicker over it - we'll never win them over anyways - and who cares what they think since they're already on the wrong side of history. The half-full glass part for me here is that someone actually took the trouble to pen a song that acknowledges the existence of our world, and as they say, there's no such thing as bad publicity.

[Nancy Sue]

Well, I think its cute. And it seems to be done in fun. But whether it is, or not, I am told that actors think any public mention, good or bad, is beneficial to their careers. (Even bad comments don't seem to have hurt Charlie Sheen's career.) Perhaps this song will bring an awareness to those who would otherwise not hear, and to help normalize it for others.

[Tracii G]

If we can't laugh at ourselves whats the use?

[Beverley Sims]

It's a seasonal thing, Merry Christmas. :-)

[Kate Simmons]

I think it's great. The first song I did at the Christmas show at the club years ago.:)

[kittie60]

I think Its real funny every time I hear it. No different than alot of Christmas songs done in humor. They make you laugh. Its Christmas time so lets all be merry..

[Marcelle]

Okay . . . you can all crucify me later as being overly sensitive but here it goes . . .

Firstly, I get it . . . freedom of speech, it's on the internet just don't look, you can't change haters minds . . . blah, blah, blah. Look, I don't consider myself an overly sensitive person when out and about and, I don't personally care what people think of me so long as they are not overtly rude or hostile, I live it every day. For every 10 people I meet there is always one who shoots me a look of utter disgust (both men and women) but I ignore it because that is their right. By why do you think they have that disgust on their face? It's because of narrow minded attempts at humor like the video which paints us pervy dudes hanging around lingerie shops doing what is not normal. You liken this to good old fashion fun/humour? Seriously?

If this had been a video about a protected group in society (e.g., visible minorities, homosexuals, women) I dare say most of you would be up on the soap box declaring how horrible such a thing is and calling for its removal. You are right that it is some misguided souls attempt at humor (could even be one of the tribe for all we know) and we should just ignore it. However it is little things like this which minimalizes us as people but painting us as caricatures of how intolerant people view TG folk. There are hundreds of post on this site which state things like "Why can't people just accept us as we are?" Why can't society stop thinking of us as perverts?" Why? Because of garbage like this. IMO, it is not something to commiserate over, laugh about or giggle along with the other mouth breathers.

If you were to walk into a restaurant and a group of mouth breathers happen to see you and started singing this same song . . . what would you do? Would you walk over and say "You got me guys . . . that's me pervy Pete walking around in women's underwear, lets all have drink and sing another chorus" . . . Not likely. There would be plenty of folks here who would claim to want to lay a smack down on those same dudes or some would just exit stage right to avoid any embarrassment. Now before someone goes . . . It's not the same thing!, remember this . . . hate/intolerance is same irrespective of where it is portrayed (internet or in person). Sure you can ignore it, shrug it off as good old fashion fun or laugh along with the mouth breathers but each time you do this, it just confirms in the eyes of people who revile us that it is okay to make fun of us.

I relinquish the soap box. :)

Marcelle

[SusanCACD]

I think the word these days is "micro-aggression".
Susan

[donnalee]

I am a strong proponent of free speech, even though it may be hateful. At best it allows for a view of different opinions and even at it's worst, it gives you fair warning to go home and take whatever precautions you deem necessary.

[reb.femme]

...and as they say, there's no such thing as bad publicity.

Au contraire Leslie. I note the time when our local window cleaner told my mum that she'd seen me hopping (wagging?) off of school back in the 70s. I never did get to cut her ladder rungs in retaliation.

I've got to say, I think it's funny too. I'm not one for easy offence. Insult my mum, my dad, my family...but not a bad word about my favourite cat or there'll be trouble. :heehee:

Just to be picky, I glide and skip around in ladies underwear. Correction...my underwear! :battingeyelashes:



Okay . . . you can all crucify me later as being overly sensitive but here it goes . . . I relinquish the soap box. :)

Not for a minute Marcelle. I basically agree with everything you say. Problem is, I have my own irreverent views on so much, that to completely condemn the song would also expose me for the hypocrite I am. But as in all things you do, as eloquent as ever. :)

Becky

[Laurana]

Now that' funny :tongueout

It might be in everyone's best interest to do a Youtube search for this song. It brings up a lot more songs by these guys and many others. All very funny.



As for wanting to sue/be offended.....*shrug*as I would say to anyone else; unbunch the panties.

[Katey888]

Wrong time of year for crucifixion Marcelle... ;)

I suppose the video isn't particularly flattering, but then this is a parody... and Bob Rivers' other 'Twisted Christmas' songs do parody political figures (Osama got run over by a reindeer...) minorities, and religion - so he's spreading his parodical net quite wide...

And yes it's full of the usual stereotypes... I mean, an obsession with lacy lingerie, silky pantyhose, borrowing things from the wife when she's out of town, and walking about in women's underwear... I don't think I've EVER read anything here that would imply any of our members enjoy that sort of thing... Inconceivable!!! :facepalm:

:D

Katey x

[Laurana]

The songs also almost 25 years old.

[Marcelle]

Yeah . . . I suppose when I was taking my beat down by the multiple cowards listening to things like "pervert panty wearer", "freak", and other things which were caricatures associated with that video, I should have just "unbunched my panties" and laughed along with them.

Marcelle

[shortskirt87]

I find it to be only a silly song. I believe this is a funny one too, and if you know the band, they joke with everything. (NSFW)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1xqvQOvE0vA

[JocelynJames]

Im from the area where the "artist" Bob Rivers penned and performed that. It's only supposed to be funny and as a cd I can almost fully relate. Before I was out to the wife, this is pretty much how it went. This song has got to be some 30 years old. I don't think we need to be overly PC now do we?

[Marcelle]

Yup . . . 30 years ago when it was okay to hate folks from all walks of life and make fun of them dressed up in cute silly songs . . . no reason to be PC though today because people accept us just as we are . . . right?

[Laurana]

I find it to be only a silly song. I believe this is a funny one too, and if you know the band, they joke with everything. (NSFW)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1xqvQOvE0vA

That's frikkin brilliant! :)

- - - Updated - - -


Yup . . . 30 years ago when it was okay to hate folks from all walks of life and make fun of them dressed up in cute silly songs . . . no reason to be PC though today because people accept us just as we are . . . right?

There's no hate in those songs. It's comedy. You don't like it don't listen to it. It doesn't mean everyone else can't enjoy it and find the humor in it.

[Marcelle]

Laurana,

I am entitled to my opinion . . . same as you. However, when you have had your a** handed to you by a group of guys who think we are joke . . . talk to me then.

[Sara Jessica]

Strangely enough, I've been aware of the song for years but have never heard more than a mere snippet. I avoid it like the plague although I've never devoted any time or energy to figure out why.

Also, while I am generally not overtly PC, I don't understand why the mouth breathers and bottom feeders (not to be confused with the Muggles as I refer to the ones who simply do not know better but harbor no ill will) find it to be OK to laugh at us, make derogatory comments, call us he/he-she/it (reverse the pronouns for FTM-the effect is the same), or worse. As Marcelle eloquently put it, saying such things are not acceptable to apply to another minority group...why is it acceptable to do it to us?

Perhaps it is because the world paints us with a brush assuming this is simply a thing we do which makes it easier to dehumanize us. And their perception of those who transition is even worse, characterizing the trans experience as a chosen lifestyle and/or mental illness that must have some nefarious means to an end.

As such, I am fully capable of laughing with us. Gosh knows we need to be capable of doing so at times. But I refuse to laugh at us.

[Laurana]

Laurana,

I am entitled to my opinion . . . same as you. However, when you have had your a** handed to you by a group of guys who think we are joke . . . talk to me then.

Then that's on the person not the song.

I'm not a big proponent of the "The (insert whatever here)made me do it" excuse. If someone's gonna beat on you they would have done it whether they heard the song or not.

[Kate Simmons]

Plus the way I acted it out at the show that year was priceless. Got a lot of tips for the under privileged kids. ;):)

[reb.femme]

..As such, I am fully capable of laughing with us. Gosh knows we need to be capable of doing so at times. But I refuse to laugh at us.

In a nutshell for me, but as previously stated, I'm no saint myself, so I'm a bit of a fence sitter.

I'm taking it upon myself on this but here goes. Marcelle feels this particularly acutely from her very personal experience, which certainly confers a certain amount of 'locus standi' on her in this debate. Yes, yes, yes, I know we all have standing, but please can we not be the second lot to give one of our own a euphemistic booting and just agree to disagree?

Becky

[Marcelle]

. . . I'm not a big proponent of the "The (insert whatever here)made me do it" excuse. If someone's gonna beat on you they would have done it whether they heard the song or not.

I was not saying the song made them do it. What I am saying is that D-Bags like the ones who attacked me would find that song "oh so hilarious" as it feeds right into their prejudice and hate.

[Pat]

I'm feeling both sides of this argument. On the one hand, it's a well-crafted comedic song and taking the artist's body of work as a whole I respect it. But Marcelle is spot on: this is part of the problem. This is part of why so many here pull their window shades or talk about how dangerous it is out there. As a kid in Boston in the 1950's we sang comedic songs about n...err...black people and there was no hurtful intent on our part, but it was reenforcing the culture that was getting black people killed simply for existing. I'd say until you can go into work dressed and made up, until you can dress in front of the kids or meet your future in-laws while pretty, this isn't the time to defend that particular work or others like it.

How about a Christmas song parody that turns the tables? Can you imagine one that puts crossdressing in a positive light and makes the haters the butt of the humor?

[Robin414]

Whoa, sorry for starting such a polarizing thread...that radio station has made some positive comments towards the 'community' on the morning show lately (CJ) and then I heard that 'tune' and kinda blew a fuse, over reacted a little bit 😮

That said...It WAS penned 30 yrs ago...back in the 'good ol' days', back when it was 'cool' to spout racial slurs...and Lead in gasoline was a good idea (maybe all that lead was the root cause 😕 )

[Laurana]

Meh. I stand by my statement. I found songs like that funny going back to the Dr. Demento days and still find them funny. Make fun of everyone and to hell with those that can't laugh. I can guarantee that there isn't a person ever who hasn't laughed at a joke made at someone elses expense.

[Sky]

Okay . . . you can all crucify me later as being overly sensitive but here it goes... ( )...If you were to walk into a restaurant and a group of mouth breathers happen to see you and started singing this same song...what would you do? ( ) Now before someone goes . . . It's not the same thing!, remember this...hate/intolerance is same irrespective of where it is portrayed (internet or in person).

No crucifixion today, it'd be in bad taste so close to Christmas. :hugs:

if somebody were to sing that song to me, in my face, it would be a direct insult, and I would absolutely make a scene. Or at least I know I should. I still have a bitter taste about not giving some small town hicks a piece of my mind for berating my looks, not that long ago. I always wanted to be the angry woman who throws a glass of liquor in the offending guy's face: actually I'd rather drink the liquor and throw just water, but the idea is the same. :)

But it's all about context. I know you said "now before someone goes..." and I'm going exactly there, but I'm afraid I just don't agree with you. Comedy is just that, comedy, and IMHO being unable to laugh about yourself dries up your life. So writing a song about guys running around in lingerie can be funny. I actually don't find the song that funny but it's not because I feel offended, I just think the jokes are not that great.

I agree there's a fine line between funny and insulting, and cultural standards are continuously evolving: for example, what passed as "funny" using dumb black dunce stereotypes in the early Hollywood age is grossly insulting today. So maybe times are a-changing and that silly song is indeed turning into insulting now. For my own old-fashioned standards, it's still kosher (I hope that didn't offend any Jew cd) :eek:

[Veronica27]

"Laughter is the best medicine." - various sources, "Let a smile be your umbrella." - Irving Kahal and Francis Wheeler. The internet is full of quotes about laughter and humour, and I did a quick look before replying. "I am thankful for laughter, except when milk comes out of my nose." - Woody Allen. "Laughter is an instant vacation." - Milton Berle. "A day without laughter is a day wasted." - Charlie Chaplin.

The ability to laugh at ourselves, to see the humour in what we do and who we are, is one of the biggest assets we can possess. All the great classic comedians knew this, and were much beloved because of it. When I was growing up we laughed at Benny, and Skelton, and Hope, and Laurel and Hardy, and Abbot and Costello, and Bob and Ray and on and on. We listened to how Spike Jones, and Homer and Jethroe, and Arthur Godfrey, and Harry Stewart (Yogi Yorgesson and Hari Kari) and Jerry Lewis sang songs murdering the lyrics of both our favourite popular songs, and our cherished classical music. Somewhere along the way, this form of humour, which good naturedly satirized and lampooned the eccentricities of every individual, culture, race, nationality and gender and most often was directed inwardly as we could identify with much of it, was taken over by political correctness. I prefer to call it the politics of guilt as it is destroying not only our sense of humour but also our freedom to think. Comedy today has been reduced to obscenities and sexual innuendoes in the hope of offending nobody.

We grow up in an environment of having an image of manhood and womanhood. The overall perception of womanhood is such that seeing a woman do manly things or wearing masculine clothing is one of admiration rather than derision. The same is not true in reverse for men, as the image of manhood is one of strength and being in control of both the situation and his emotions. The initial impulse, when seeing a man wearing female clothing, or doing chores that have traditionally been female responsibilities, is often to see it as being funny. Comedians and songwriters such as this example have fed on this source of laughter, at least until PC came along and made us feel guilty.

Those who would bring us harm because of our predilection to crossdress are going to do so regardless of whether or not they hear songs such as this. However, seeing the humorous side of crossdressing and our own ability to laugh along with it, could do much to promote a better understanding of the phenomenon and those who participate in it. By showing we are not offended by their initial impulse to chuckle, and our understanding of why this occurred, we are humanizing ourselves more than if we were to show hurt feelings and sulk. I am speaking for those of us who are crossdressers and not the transgenders, but they could also benefit from an overall healthier public attitude towards cross gender images. And laughter is great medicine.

Veronica

[Angie G]

Light up Pobin. I think it'a a cute little song like gramma got runover by a raindeer. Take A deep breath count to ten and let it go girl.:hugs:
Angie

[AngelaYVR]

I listened and I had a laugh. We all know that the type of CD referenced is all too real.

[Marcelle]

Okay . . . you win . . . it is great fun absolutely hilarious to make fun at others expense . . . LOL, LMAO and whatnot . . . HARDY, HAR, HAR. Doesn't feed into any negative stereotypes or give people a poor vision of what being TG is all about. Just remember this thread the next time someone asks "Why do people see us as perverts or freaks" or somebody makes an off color joke about you at your expense in public . . . just humor . . . right, not need to get insulted or upset. So take a deep breath, count to ten and let it go.


. . . but please can we not be the second lot to give one of our own a euphemistic booting and just agree to disagree?

Said my peace and in the wise words of Becky . . . well agree to just disagree.

Marcelle

[Robin777]

I'm going to put my 2 cents worth in on this topic. I have never liked the song and cringe every time I hear it. Plus I agree with a lot that Marcelle has written on the subject.

[Sandie70]

Robin, I too find this incredibly offensive. The humor in the song is founded on the premise that what we do is perverted or unnatural.

[Lorileah]

OK, think about if it were about ANY other minority...even if you think that calling people names and reinforcing stereotypes is funny in your world...this is just RUDE and mean. I get where you all find it cute because you are CDs but it is an insult to Transsexuals

[Jenniferathome]

Loroleah, you are right IF you substitute Jew or Black or some other ethnicity BUT... how does it come off if you substitute carpenter or painter or pensioner? While some may feel otherwise, cross dressing is not a religion nor an ethnicity. It's an activity to most in the world. While I do not find the song entertaining, it is not offensive.

[Jamie390]

I am sorry... I've heard that song about 20 years now. I love it just as much now as i did then. I am not at all offended by it.

[Marcelle]

Loroleah, you are right IF you substitute Jew or Black or some other ethnicity BUT... how does it come off if you substitute carpenter or painter or pensioner? While some may feel otherwise, cross dressing is not a religion nor an ethnicity. It's an activity to most in the world. While I do not find the song entertaining, it is not offensive.

Okay, I promised to say my peace and leave it at that but this remark requires response.

Jennifer, if you read Lori's post and some of mine you should have noticed we are of the mindset that it is offensive to TS. Now you might believe the song is aimed only at crossdressers but "newsflash" unless someone is educated in the concept of the TG spectrum they don't differentiate between TS and CD, we are all the same in the eyes of those who hate. TS is not an activity it is my life and when I see garbage like this and hear folks who should know better saying it is just good fun, no harm no foul it irritates me that they cannot demonstrate even an iota of empathy to understand the offensiveness to those of us on the other side of the spectrum who live with these negative stereotypes every day.

On another note, nobody goes around berating, physically assaulting or doing worse to people who are carpenters, painters or pensioners . . they do however do so to TG persons (both TS and CD). There are no negative stereotypes associated with being a carpenter, painter or pensioner which would lead people to minimalize those groups of people and see them as less than human. Besides if this were only an activity (as you suggest) then you should be able to give it up if you have to, which even you proclaim is genetically coded into you so you cannot just give it up. So your activity analogy is quiet flawed and to be honest IMO downright insulting to the TS side of the house.

Marcelle

[Vickie_CDTV]

I don't find the song funny personally but I am not going to get bent out of shape about it. If people like it fine, if they don't, fine. I am a member of another group in society that gets far far more jokes at their expense, fat people (a group that is still 100% culturally acceptable to make fun of.) There wouldn't be enough hours remaining in my life to sue everyone who has ever made a joke at the expense of fat people. People can make fun of any group they want, no matter how offensive it might be to most, it is protected speech, there is no right to not be offended in life.

[Laurana]

I am sorry... I've heard that song about 20 years now. I love it just as much now as i did then. I am not at all offended by it.

Don't be sorry for liking something funny.

Here's another one you may like from Weird Al called "Drivin a truck with my high heels on".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykXfo50MDxs

[Katey888]

I hesitate a little to reopen a comment here, but wth - Marcelle's had a few rebuttal opportunities too... :)

Let me start by saying that I would shudder to think of anyone here supporting something that actually promoted any sort of hate or bigotry against any of our community or through any inaction of their own, allowed that type of bigotry to propagate. :straightface:

I feel truly sorry that a number of our TS members have posted here clearly feeling so upset by this rather inane Christmas parody - but I do think that emotions seem to be getting on top of things, when the song has been referred to as being 'rude', incorporating 'name calling' and implying what we do (presumably all of us) is 'perverted and unnatural' when there is nothing that I can find in the lyrics of the song that express that explicitly. The video imagery has clearly been thrown together by some hapless YT aficionado to add some additional humour and is probably more offensive, but is mild compared to other things that can be found on YT.

Look - does anyone here really believe that either Bob Rivers or this YT vid is truly influential...? I don't believe so...

Western, liberal culture has a strong tradition of allowing both free speech and the use of satire, parody and imagery to express individual thoughts, humour and to stereotype and entertain... And before anyone jumps on the use of the word 'entertain' and feels that no minority should be singled out to be used for the entertainment of the masses, this is the foundation of a lot of comedic entertainment - and that is what this song is intended to be - nothing more...

I sympathise with anyone who is offended by this and other things they feel offended by, but I cannot feel offense on their behalf for something that I neither feel is offensive to my person, nor was intended to offend in the first place. :)

Comedic stereotypes, however, do have a habit of pushing buttons... which is why (once again) education and propagation of more truthful examples is key to understanding and acceptance... :thinking:

Katey x

[Marcelle]

Okay . . . so if this is not offensive to any of you who claim so and just good fun. Then why are not out to the public as CD? I am not just talking about dressing up and going out to lunch or shopping but out to your friends, family and whomever. After all it is just good fun, an activity so should be no issue proclaiming such to the world. Why do you keep it private? Because you know the world will paint exactly as that silly parody does . . . mincing perverts in lingerie. I'm out of here.

Marcelle

[Kelli Jo-ann]

While not a Christmas song, you should check out Weird Al Yankovic "driving a truck."
By the way I love walking around in womens underwear. Yeah and the song is good too. Hahaha

[Laurana]

Marcelle you know damn well that that song did not say anything about "mincing perverts in lingerie". You want to be offended and pissed off and rail at the sky fine. But at least have the decency to not lie about what the song says.

As to your "why are you not out" comment; There's probably a thousand reasons why people keep this side private. And quite honestly it's none of your business.

- - - Updated - - -


While not a Christmas song, you should check out Weird Al Yankovic "driving a truck."


Love that song.

[Marcelle]

Umm . . . never said the song said anything about that. The parody of TG folks obsessed with lingerie and prancing about as such says it all. So please get your facts straight before accusing me of lying. Thanks.

[Pat]

Who here is old enough to remember Amos n' Andy? It was a network (CBS) television show that was based on a network radio show and was wildly popular and funny. Well, funny to white folks. It was about a group of black friends living in Haarlem and they were largely portrayed as buffoons. Hilariously funny. To white folks. The issue wasn't the jokes, which were Vaudeville retreads for the most part and could have been applied to any minority, the problem was the underlying message -- that the portrayal fit all black people. That it was OK to evaluate every individual in an entire race using the assumptions (applied humorously) in the show. It didn't say it's OK to harm black people, but it supported the culture that thought it was. It had been cancelled long before the civil rights movement got traction but it was popular in reruns up through the 60's when it became a point of focus and the network withdrew it. At the time there was a lot of backlash from people, even black people, saying, "Hey, it's funny! Hey, it means no harm!" and so on. But "means no harm" and "does no harm" are different things.

I'm pretty sure that's what Marcelle and others are reacting to. Yes, there is no lyric in the song about mincing perverts but the song supports the people who choose to take that view of us. And someday, hopefully, the day will come when those people are as popular as white supremacist are today but until then you have to ask yourself if the song is funny enough that you want to encourage its social viewpoint. Is it funny enough to forgive a public attack? Funny enough to make up for the fact that transgender people are murdered at an alarming rate?

You can find Amos n' Andy episodes again now. They used to be completely wiped away. You can honor them for the creative effort that went into them, for the jobs they created for black actors back in the day. But now when you watch them you'll be comparing their social view to your personal knowledge that there are black CEOs, black doctors -- even a black president. Hopefully they'll still make you cringe a little bit. I admire the creative effort that went into that song and I admire the artist's body of work, but it might be time to put the song in a drawer for a while until transgender folks on the front line get social acceptance in place. As Eldridge Cleaver said "There is no more neutrality in the world. You either have to be part of the solution, or you're going to be part of the problem."

[Sara Jessica]

I "get" parody, satire & humor in the context of free speech. It doesn't necessarily make it right when the subject of the purported humor is offended.

Food for thought, I can think of very few instances of parody that is directed at vanilla white males. About the only one I can think of is Eddie Murphy's classic "white man dance". Pretty funny stuff back in the day. Thing is, people didn't go out in search of the real white dude dancing and beat him up because he dances the way he does.

Many here don't identify as a minority because they don't put themselves out there to be scrutinized as such. This parody song offends many because it perpetuates inaccurate perceptions and it is unfortunate that perception = reality to most people out there.

While following this thread, I have thought more about why I have avoided even hearing this song. It comes down to the fact that I find it to be creepy. The premise is creepy. Many out there find us to be creepy (and as has been stated already, there is no differentiation between TS, CD or everything in between among those who are not in the know).

The song doesn't speak to me in any way. It certainly doesn't mesh with my world view. I don't walk around in women's underwear. They're my underwear. I'm not necessarily offended by a song I've never heard beyond a few snippets but at the same time, I'm bothered by its existence. I don't need the words of what must be a catchy little ditty permeating my brain when I hear the real Winter Wonderland song.

If the song speaks to you and/or strikes a humous chord, hey...that's great. But please try to understand why others find it to be offensive.

[Kate Simmons]

Evidently some folks have their "buttons" pushed pretty easily. Just saying. :)

[Veronica27]

Now you might believe the song is aimed only at crossdressers but "newsflash" unless someone is educated in the concept of the TG spectrum they don't differentiate between TS and CD, we are all the same in the eyes of those who hate.

This was my argument whenever I argued against including CD as part of a "TG umbrella", although I don't recall ever referring to the misunderstanding as "hate". I simply don't like the fact I crossdress being mistaken as meaning I am somehow gender conflicted.


On another note, nobody goes around berating, physically assaulting or doing worse to people who are carpenters, painters or pensioners . . they do however do so to TG persons (both TS and CD). There are no negative stereotypes associated with being a carpenter, painter or pensioner which would lead people to minimalize those groups of people and see them as less than human.

There is scarcely any occupational group or profession that is not poked fun of on some TV show or movie or comic strip. Think of lawyers, doctors and accountants (my profession). I think the negative portrayals of the pencil pushers, while an exaggeration, are to some extent true but more importantly are hilarious. Lawyers and doctors get even worse treatment in my opinion, but I don't hear them complain. What about Archie Bunker and his white, right wing, patriotic, conservative viewpoints. They were mocked to an extent that would have led to riots if aimed at some factions, but a sense of humour prevailed. And as for stereotypes what about the satirizing of Italian mothers and sons on Everybody Loves Raymond. And pensioners are the butt of comedy to an extent that would drive many around the bend. Endless jokes about incontinence, forgetfulness, not being up on technology and other modern (in)conveniences. And what about the Scots and their "skirts" and frugality. Wow there are some real knee slappers about them. And the French and their inability to fight (now not so relevant), the Polish, the Germans, the Swedes, the Irish (drunken, brawling blokes that they are) and on and on. Nerds, punks, the nearsighted with coke bottle specs, fat people, tall people, clumsy people, ... We have all been the butt of the joke numerous times. I don't know about others, but I would hate to live in a humorless world. It is sad that because of PC, dropping a lot of "F bombs" is now thought of as hilarious.


Food for thought, I can think of very few instances of parody that is directed at vanilla white males.

Read my above comments, and tune into some of those shows for a few chuckles about us white folks of the masculine persuasion.

Veronica :heehee:

[Jamie390]

The way I see it is that we all want to express our individuality, even if it offends other people. Therefore we have to let others express their individuality. Even if their individuality is them expressing displeasure in what we do.

If the worst thing that we have to worry about is a song that someone wrote to make people laugh, even if it is at our expense, then I think we are doing ok.

NEWSFLASH, not everyone is going to be ok with what we do.

[CourtneyBme]

I heard this song just the other day and I find it quite amusing. Doesn't bother me at all. As a matter of fact I went out shopping this morning with panties on under my drab clothes. To each their own....

[Laurana]

Who here is old enough to remember Amos n' Andy?

I love that show. The radio program is just as good. When I hear it on XM I both laugh and think "They'd never be able to do that now". It's like Blazing Saddles. You'll never see another movie like that.

- - - Updated - - -


Umm . . . never said the song said anything about that. The parody of TG folks obsessed with lingerie and prancing about as such says it all. So please get your facts straight before accusing me of lying. Thanks.

You implied as much. But whatever. Be mad at a song. *shrug* Life's too short for faux outrage. I'm done reply to you.

[Sara Jessica]

Read my above comments, and tune into some of those shows for a few chuckles about us white folks of the masculine persuasion.

I'm seeing other terms of description: conservative, tall, nationality, profession, etc.

My point was that the "white male" who experiences little, if any satire at his expense simply for being a "white male is usually the first to throw stones. Fact of the matter, many fail to make anything beyond a superficial connection with the minority group that is TG.

Yes, all of this over a song.

The song bugs.

[Wen4cd]

I'm more partial to Weird Al's "Truck Drivin' Song"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGLmiWfoJx8

[Pat]

There is scarcely any occupational group or profession that is not poked fun of on some TV show or movie or comic strip.

I think you're missing the point of the very words you quote -- the difference is that doctors, as a whole, are not brought to physical harm as a result of a culture of making fun of them. Nobody says, "Let's go down the hospital and beat up some doctors." And your argument that doctors, lawyers and accountants don't take offense to the jokes either means you're just taking a rhetorical stance or you're completely out of touch. They very much mind them and in their professional gatherings express that pretty pointedly. But again, the difference is that you're not finding them bleeding in an alley put there by folks who argue "they had it coming." And if someone does harm a doctor, lawyer, etc. and they get arrested, there's no forgiving attitude. Doctors are not generally acknowledged to have a high suicide rate because they are rejected by society or their families. All of these things make the comparisons apples-to-oranges.

As for Archie Bunker -- were you alive then? There were most certainly protests over Norman Lear's liberal attitude and the "shameful" way he treated right-thinking Americans like Archie (no pun.) But again, nobody is lynching the Archie Bunkers of the world. Shakespeare famously advocated killing all the lawyers, but nobody is doing that. But they are killing transgender people at an alarming rate. And transgender people do have an alarming suicide rate directly linked to family and social rejection (there was an article about that just a month or so ago, but I don't have it to hand right now.)

Again, I'm certain no harm is intended by the song. But it promotes, or is a reflection of, a social attitude that we as a class need to change. Unless we like our closets. Unless we like having to sneak around. Like having to worry about losing our jobs or loved ones if our "secret" comes out. It's hard for me to imagine that's something we want to preserve.

[AngelaYVR]

Actually (and I do hate to put this out here at Christmas, I really do) the largest group of people who commit suicide is middle aged white males. Presumably a reason for that.

Anyone who feels offended at a song that accurately portrays a certain segment of our clique needs to understand that such behaviour just solidifies the public's negative view of us. Embrace the light side, admit your humanity. Nobody ever made an ally by trying to ban something.

[Sara Jessica]

I don't think anyone is trying to ban the song.

[Pat]

Actually (and I do hate to put this out here at Christmas, I really do) the largest group of people who commit suicide is middle aged white males. Presumably a reason for that.

The American Foundation for Suicide Prevention says that "In 2013, the highest U.S. suicide rate (14.2) was among Whites and the second highest rate (11.7) was among American Indians and Alaska Natives." They go on to state that white males accounted for 70% of all suicides. So, yes, in terms of gross number of total successes (sounds so wrong) white males take the prize, but their rate is 14.2% The rate of transgender attempts (not necessarily successes) is generally listed as 41%. (Some of whom will be white males, I assume.) So the take-away is that in our smaller community more people attempt suicide.

Here's a link to an interesting article they have on their site which gives a statistic I hadn't seen before: the suicide attempt rate for male crossdressers is the lowest of the transgender community, coming in at "just" 21%. Still 'way larger than the general white male numbers though.

https://www.afsp.org/advocacy-public-policy/policy-news-updates/new-study-suggests-link-between-experiences-of-discrimination-and-suicide-attempts-among-transgender-people

[Sky]

Am I the only one to think this thread has derailed beyond recovery?

[Robin414]

Yes! It's all about British Common Law ( 'n being girly 😉 ) Ya, I did lighten up!! Let's bring this post back in focus ladies!

[Lorileah]

You implied as much. But whatever. Be mad at a song. *shrug* Life's too short for faux outrage. I'm done reply to you. How is it "faux" outrage? Do you understand what Faux means?
faux
fō/
adjective
adjective: faux

made in imitation; artificial.
"a string of faux pearls"
not genuine; fake or false.. I believe Marcelle's outrage is real. Why? because MY outrage is real (and to bring this back to the other part of your post, Amos and Andy were played by two white guys capitalizing on white stereotyped ideas of blacks. Personally I find that highly insulting)


The way I see it is that we all want to express our individuality, even if it offends other people. Therefore we have to let others express their individuality. Even if their individuality is them expressing displeasure in what we do.

If the worst thing that we have to worry about is a song that someone wrote to make people laugh, even if it is at our expense, then I think we are doing ok.

NEWSFLASH, not everyone is going to be ok with what we do. Confusing point here So there is a line where being insulting is OK as long as it's done to make others laugh at your expense? That you can say (or DO) what you wish to someone else because it is YOUR feelings? And the worst? 25 Transpersons have been murdered in the US this year. Where does that hate start? When people stop seeing others as human, as something to make fun of, as objects of ridicule, as being different than they are and falling back on that as a reason to eliminate them. So it's OK to laugh and point...until it's not and someone gets hurt.


Am I the only one to think this thread has derailed beyond recovery? The OP asked what people thought of the song...I think it's still on point. Reasons that some find it offensive are valid as an answer

[Dana44]

Well I can understand both sides. But hoot we are out as CD's and in public many times. Don't try to put us on the other side of the fence. What do I think of the song? It is a very old song about twenty five years ago. Hearing it back then made me think there were others out there like me. Their creative parity on it, I thought was harmless but I can see Marcelle's point and she is allowed to put her point out without the rebuttal that is found in this thread. Her point does show that it is probably wrong to make fun of us. But humor is sometimes good. Everybody has an opinion and I think we are good to show it but we do not need flame wars.

[Veronica27]

I'm seeing other terms of description: conservative, tall, nationality, profession, etc.

My point was that the "white male" who experiences little, if any satire at his expense simply for being a "white male is usually the first to throw stones. Fact of the matter, many fail to make anything beyond a superficial connection with the minority group that is TG.

Yes, all of this over a song.

The song bugs.

When you consider all the stereotypes of white male husbands in television commercials over the years, white men have certainly been the butt of a lot of jokes. Also, worldwide white people are a minority. The descriptors you mention are mostly a necessary part of the discussion about poking fun at minority groups.


I think you're missing the point of the very words you quote -- the difference is that doctors, as a whole, are not brought to physical harm as a result of a culture of making fun of them.

I mentioned in a prior post on this thread, that those who wish to bring harm to others are going to do it. It is seldom as a result of a culture of making fun of them. And doctors and lawyers have often been a major target for evil doers. Bombings of clinics and shooting up of court rooms are not exactly unheard of.

And was I alive for Archie Bunker? I am 76 years old; do the math. If my aging memory is correct, that was an era of much liberal protesting that far outweighed any right wing objections to Archie, In fact the whole climate was conducive to such a program.

As for the suicide statistics, I find them highly suspect. Out of every group of 20 white males, almost 3 will commit suicide? I have certainly known of some suicides, but out of the several thousand people I have likely worked with and attended school with, and lived near and done business with, the number of suicides would come nowhere close to those statistics. In fact the statistics about TG/CD are not very accurate. I have seen estimates of our numbers ranging from 2% to 10%. How do we draw any conclusions about such an unknown number of people.

I realize that some people will probably be offended by this song, but I prefer to follow the advice of AngelYVR:

"Anyone who feels offended at a song that accurately portrays a certain segment of our clique needs to understand that such behaviour just solidifies the public's negative view of us. Embrace the light side, admit your humanity. Nobody ever made an ally by trying to ban something."

Veronica

[Pat]

As for the suicide statistics, I find them highly suspect. Out of every group of 20 white males, almost 3 will commit suicide?

That's not what the statistics are saying. Sorry if I was confusing. The stats say that out of 1,000 suicides, 142 will be white males. Or a rate of 14.2 percent. That's why I like to provide a link with numbers like that so you can see where they come from.

[Judith96a]

There are two trends in this thread that I find deeply disturbing:-

The repeated assertion that "it's alright for you CD-ers but us TS-s"
The idea that it is absolutely unacceptable to make fun of someone on the basis of their race, ethnicity, height, choice of clothing, whatever. I'm studiously avoiding the use of the r-word but it's in the list too.


Have you ever heard of the phrase "divide and conquer"? We seem to be doing a good job of dividing ourselves. That will make it easy for others to do the conquering.

Yes, we can squirm / shudder at this song. Is it influential or is it a product of its time and context? I don't know. But I do know this - the Irish have been the butt of everyone's jokes for as long as anyone can remember. And yes that stereotype, that the Irish are 'thick', has resulted in beatings and assaults. But is even the most PC zealot suggesting that 'Paddy Irishman' jokes are a hate crime? No! And rightly so! Do you know how the Irish deal with being the butt of everyone else's jokes? We tell jokes about the stuffy English and thick Kerrymen and quietly get on with not being thick!

Hate and bigotry are not fun. But, if we can't have a laugh at ourselves, or acknowledge that about us that others find ridiculous then we're taking ourselves far too seriously.

Merry Christmas everyone, from a somewhat cold and windswept (but, for the moment, not wet) Ireland.

[Veronica27]

That's not what the statistics are saying. Sorry if I was confusing. The stats say that out of 1,000 suicides, 142 will be white males. Or a rate of 14.2 percent. That's why I like to provide a link with numbers like that so you can see where they come from.

Thanks for the clarification. I did take a look at the link to see who the organization was and to take a quick peak at the percentages you quoted, but have to admit I didn't have the time today to read it beyond that.

Have a Merry Christmas

Veronica

[Barbara Jo]

Is that song really much different than Monty Python's Lumberjack Song"? :)

BTW.. ....
Speaking of "'Amos 'n' Andy"...
i got the whole TV series on CDs via E-bay.
I'm old enough to remember when it had it's first run on early TV.
it was about the only place where black people were depicted as upstanding businessmen, lawyers, policemen, even judges, etc
Only Andy and "The king Fish" were played for comedy and Amos was actually a level headed business and family man.

The only reason it became it became "banned" is because only one single member of the NAACP protested and everyone else panicked to become overly politically correct .
Fact is, all the descendants of the cast members are to this day proud of of what their relatives did in that show and are not at all ashamed of it .
In reality, a show like "Sanford And Son" is far more racially stereotypical of backs than Amos 'N "Andy ever was.

BTW ,"The Honeymooners" is just a white version of Amos "N' Andy using exactly the same format and basic characters.

So, if you get a chance, check out the Amos 'N' Andy series, it's classic early video comedy at its best, :)

[Laurana]

Is that song really much different than Monty Python's Lumberjack Song"? :)



Nope.

I remember when A & A use to be on right before Abbott and Costello on a Saturday morning. I'll have to check Ebay out for them.

[Barbara Jo]

.......... I'll have to check Ebay out for them.

Be aware that a complete A 'n" A set will contain 74 episodes on about 16 DVDs
I believe that there are about 3 episodes that are lost forever.

Also keep in mind that episode quality will vary somewhat as a few episodes are only remaining on 8mm film which were originally made to be shown to US troops.
However, they are are quite watchable.

BTW, If i had to pick a favorite character, it would be their lawyer friend....."Algonquin J Calhoun"
I always thought that Kramer's lawyer on Seinfeld was inspired by him. :)

[Laurana]

Yeah, I'm fully aware of what the quality can be like. I once bought the "complete" Abbott and Costello radio program. A good number of them were fairly poor quality and a few were missing. Granted it's not the same as a TV show but the comparison in quality is there.

I was always partial to the King Fish.