awkward situation...advice or comments

[jenniferinsf]

as jennifer...my wife and i went to hear my son's band play at a club.

i was introduced as jennifer was having a lovely time. a bit later while my wife was up watching the band i approached from behind and put my hand on her shoulder/nape of neck

she shrugged it off and said she did want to be seen as a lesbian.

i was stunned to say the least and it continues to bother me a couple of weeks later. i tried to play it down but she was serious. i guess i did not realized the depth of her feelings although she is 100% supportive

i am still smarting from the slight

[reb.femme]

Hi Jennifer,

Similar circumstances for me at home. There is zero contact between us when I'm dressed. At least you get to go out with your wife dressed, mine would not be seen dead with me dressed. I might save that for her funeral if I out live her. :heehee:

I don't think you've over assumed, as no line had been drawn...until now. Your wife is obviously open to your dressing, so maybe ask her about it so that she's aware you know there is a limit to her acceptance?

Becky

[Dana44]

Yeah , it does sting. Don't worry though, she still is supportive. But women don't like any lesbian contacts. That is typical. My SO is the same way. I know we want loved but heck don't this bother you.

[Michelle (Oz)]

Seems pretty simple and reasonable Jennifer. She is happy to go out with you dressed but as girlfriends not as husband and wife. That is how she feels comfortable in a situation that is so rare among CD wives. Most don't want to even see us dressed let alone go out together. Perhaps you made an assumption that would have been best talked through before it arose.

[pamela7]

i suppose the bright side means she thinks you pass well enough for others to think that!

[Teresa]

Jennifer,
May I ask how long you've been going out dressed with your wife ?
It does sound as if she's on the edge of her comfort zone, did you say anything to her at the time ? In hindsight I may have just apologised for startling her and see what her response was to that.
I guess all you can do is back off with the dressing out, when the opportunity does come up again double check that she's still OK with it.
Do you also go out alone or only as a couple ?

[Eryn]

Give it time and restrict PDOA to things that casual girlfriends would do. Touching her arm is fine, kissing her is not. Messes up your lipstick, anyway!

One thing: Your being TG does not in any way make your wife a lesbian. Mimi and I have discussed this at length and she married a man and remains attracted to men. I'm kind of a special case.

While we may in some stretch of the imagination be perceived as a same-sex couple it is more likely that we will be perceived as a pair of casual friends. The only people who seem to perceive us as a lesbian couple are other LGBT people who have gaydar and that is fine with us.

[Katey888]

I don't see that as a slight... Isn't that simply her right to choose to constrain perceptions of people who may know her to something she is comfortable with? Unless this is a change of attitude, perhaps this is something you could have discussed before...?

(Please note: I'm addressing this reply with these questions and points only because I think I can understand your wife's position and feeling and I wonder if anyone else feels this too.)

I'm not out to my wife and I don't have a strong need to express my femme side frequently or regularly, and I think this is possibly one of the reasons why - I'd feel uncomfortable putting my wife in this position (assuming that she knew and accepted) as my need for expression is something that doesn't involve her or need her consensual participation. Perhaps your wife has some limits beyond which she is not prepared to support, but I don't think I'd consider it a slight - simply a choice on her part. :)

Just a different perspective... :2c:

I hope you can work it out together though...

Katey x

[Teresa]

Eryn,
Women are sensitive to that point, my wife has given the response that she's not a lesbian, ironically since my gender counselling she accepts that I partly am. I can see the point you make now, going out in that situation is like sisters or female friends , they very rarely touch and and certainly not a friendly touch on the shoulder, unless it's accompanied by a call of some kind to attract their attention.

[Eryn]

Some women don't touch often, others do. It's a societal thing.

I used to be concerned about being mistaken for gay and now realize that this was the prejudices taught to by me during my upbringing. Gay isn't bad and if someone wants to mistake me as such they are welcome to do so.

Lesbians have been accepted "under the radar" for much longer than men. Historically, two women living together just didn't raise eyebrows as would two men living together. Women were expected to have roommates., but men living together were "The Odd Couple."

I suppose that it comes down to how much we (husbands and wives) want to hold onto old prejudices. We want society to treat T people fairly, so it behooves us to respect the L and G folks too.

[Pumped]

Jen, you were presenting as a woman and your wife's request seems reasonable to me. Two woman touching in a friendly manner in public? What would most people think? Now if this happened in the privacy of your home I would feel differently.

[NicoleScott]

If somebody doesn't mind being perceived as gay, it's their right. But isn't it someone's right to NOT be perceived as lesbian? Isn't it the same right? The suggestion that you're prejudiced if you do mind is ridiculous.

Married or not, if someone doesn't want to be touched, it should be respected.

[bridget thronton]

I can understand the feelings Jen (yours and hers)

[docrobbysherry]

Jen, u must have known by now that your SO isn't attracted to u dressed? Then, u pushed yourself on her in public?

The alternative is; she is attracted to u but was embarrassed to show it in public. Then, I think she owes u an appology for snubbing u.

[Cheryl T]

If she is 100% supportive of "her husband" crossdressing then maybe you shouldn't be so hurt.
Respect her feelings on this just as she respects yours. She could just as well have introduced you as so and so (male name) my husband and then how would you have felt?

[Michelle Girl]

Hi Jennifer,

I am not fully aware of the understanding that exists between you and your wife regarding how you mix with others when out together. The fact that your wife accompanies you while dressed en femme and introduces you as Jennifer places you, in my view, in a rare and immensely fortunate position, compared with the majority of CDers.

This tolerance and acceptance may have some more subtle limits than you are aware of, despite her declared total acceptance. In the situation that you describe, your wife may feel that her gender identity and presentation are as a straight female and that you have compromised this in public. If this is the case then I can understand her reaction when you touched her nape / shoulder.

Perhaps I am wrong but this would be my reading of the situation based on how you described it. It would merit a discussion with her. Sooner rather than later to ensure you both understand and don't marr what appears to be a wonderful relationship.

Hope I'm not wide of the mark. Best wishes, Michelle

[Jenniferathome]

Jennifer, I would never touch my wife in any way that is affectionate while I am dressed. I am not her husband in the romantic sense when dressed. My wife would be as creeped out as I would be should that kind of touch occur.

[Suzanne F]

Jennifer
Keep talking with your wife. My wife's reaction to me has changed greatly over the last 2 years. It has been a process for her and it continues to evolve. No things are not perfect but we are figuring it out together. People change if they are willing. This is a journey so keep moving! Be loving to your wife and give her room to grow. There are no guarantees but my experience has been one of love and acceptance!
Suzanne

[Maria 60]

It's to bad because it just sounds like you got caught up in the moment as a parent watching your son perform. Women are difficult to predict, my wife has always told me that if I want to walk out the door she will never walk next to me, but a few years back I went to a crossdresser store to buy a wig, and she was right there with me by my side even though I told her she didn't have to come. Just her accepting you being dressed outside the home is a big positive. If my wife would let me out the door I wouldn't care if she wanted me to touch her.

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Jen:hugs:, There's a thin fine line between acceptance and rejection . ~~...:daydreaming:...

[Lorileah]

Women are difficult to predict, really? and men aren't? c'mon Let's not start into the bashing of women ok?

[josrphine]

HUMMMMMMM?????? My wife an I have been together for 9 1/2 yrs. There is such a very good bond between us that we both don't care what anyone thinks about us. I am who I am, an she loves me more as a women then a man. Duz that make her a lesbian. For us to become " NORMAL " should we fall back on the old sterotype. You Jennifer make a very good looking women an I'll bet your wife has some female friends that touch her the same way. Have a little talk with her about it , the more it sits in the room the smaller the room gets. JO

[Launa]

Yeah this can easily happen with a SO in public and everybody has their moments and comfort zones. Especially at a bar I could see a SO saying something like this. Deal with the rejection the best way you can.

[Krisi]

Jennifer, first, you are very lucky that your wife is willing to go out with you in public and interact with people. Whatever you do, don't let that slip away.

Her fear of being seen as a lesbian is real and you should expect and respect that. In her mind, the two of you are out together as sisters, friends or neighbors, not lovers or husband and wife. Some women might get a kick out of the "lesbian" thing, but the older or more conservative they are, the less likely this is. Also, the more known in the community, the less likely this is.

Don't let anyone try to tell you that this is wrong, it what your wife thinks, not what someone else thinks that's important.

Don't let it bother you. You might think about apologizing and this could lead to a discussion on the subject where you two can reach an understanding.

[mykell]

hi jennifer,
obviously if you still feel negative vibes from this you need to discuss it with her,
as others have said if my wife and son were so accepting of this to have me participate in a function as my other self would be a blessing,
her action was backed up by her voice, take it as the off-handled compliment it was, respect her boundaries, easy for me to say though, im out for support group meetings and a few times into the wild....

[flatlander_48]

j:

Relationships evolve as we learn more about each other. Even though a given relationship may have been in existence for a long time, new information may require reevaluation and adjustment. Inadvertently you touched a hot button and got the knee-jerk response. I say knee-jerk because it could be that it took her by surprise with no time to process or it could be an accurate reflection of her thinking. It may be too early to tell. I'd say let it steep for a few days and have a low-key conversation about it.

DeeAnn

[Vale]

Could it be that your wife accepts the female side of you as a woman, and -- when in your girl mode -- expects you to act like the other women in her life that she respects? How does she behave with other women?

Vale

[Stephanie47]

I suspect the biggest issue my wife has with my cross dressing is exactly the connotation it infers some sort of lesbian relationship. I would not take it as a slight. She just wants intimacy to be on her terms, i.e, with her male husband. It may be different in the privacy of the home and even the bedroom, but, it may be stretching it to be seen in public.

My wife was so traumatized thirty plus years ago by a shopping trip to Mervyn's to buy some panties with me that it bordered on "mental spousal abuse." From that day on I never approached the subject of acceptance. I know why she probably acted in that manner, and, I can accept her deep reluctance to even talk about the subject.

You're lucky your wife is supportive. Just accept her boundaries. Everyone has one, even if you haven't reach it yet.

[sometimes_miss]

i am still smarting from the slight

Are you kidding? There are only a few million crossdressers who would murder someone in order to have an accepting wife. Wake up and smell the roses you have! Gee, how some people have no idea how good they have it.

[jenniferinsf]

Thanks thanks thanks

You have no idea how much I appreciate all of your input.

Yes...I am very lucky and appreciate what I have with my wife and respect who she is.

And yes...need to talk more but I seem to retreat into my male silent mode.

[SANDRA MICHELLE]

My wife has told me many times she just is not a lesbian, that's probably good because we probably wouldn't be together if she was. After all I am really a man underneath the clothes, even though in my mind I want to be and mostly feel like a woman. We have played dressup together on many occasions but she still does not like the lesbian aspect of it. We both wear one piece bathing suits in our hot tub and we wear matching nities quite a lot but she still don't like the lesbian aspect of it so don't be upset with her.

[Stephanie Julianna]

My wife has also expressed a similar concern. She prefers me as a man. Period.

[Sky]

And yes...need to talk more but I seem to retreat into my male silent mode.

I think this is paramount, Jennifer. All too often we make assumptions about what our wives/gfs really think, and since most of us don't much argue with ourselves (save for split personalities?) we tend to convince ourselves of "facts" that have little support in reality.

Talk to her, but more than anything listen. Every person has its own boundaries and limits, and knowing hers will help you navigating your marriage better.

[sugarbabe]

And yes...need to talk more but I seem to retreat into my male silent mode.

The silent killer. I suffer from this a bunch. My wife is very accepting, but there are more things I feel I should talk about with her and sometimes I just can't squash my insecurities/embarrassment/shame/etc. to make it happen :|

[Sarah Doepner]

As we accept ourselves as transgender we have to realize that those who know and care about us are having to redefine themselves as well. Your wife is probably going through her own transition and has sent you a message on an aspect of her life you hadn't discussed yet. In a way she has complimented the quality of your presentation, people would think you are a woman. It may be time to discuss other things that she is concerned about and set the ground rules until the next talk. She sounds like a great person, show her the respect and support she has shown you and be a couple for a long time to come.

[Pat]

In these situations I usually try to reverse the roles -- imagine your wife decided she wants to be FTM CD and can put together a really convincing presentation. You're out in a public place as your male self in a place where people may know you and she drapes herself over you -- do you feel comfortable or not? If you're uncomfortable, could you move her off you without it seeming like a rebuff? She was actually in a pretty tough situation when you think about it that way.

[Beverley Sims]

I also remember not to walk too closely or hold hands with my wife when dressed.

Some natural touching does look out of place I admit.

[Mink]

My wife has also expressed a similar concern. She prefers me as a man. Period.

but even dressed as a woman you are still a man!

and the thread starter's wife couldn't be a lesbian because he is a man!

and if people thought she was? she could just explain nope! he's a man, baby!

etag!

[Krisi]

As we accept ourselves as transgender .................

Let's try to keep in mind that we are not all "transgender". Probably far more of us are not.

The relationship between a wife and a crossdressing husband is likely to be far different than the relationship between a wife and a husband who identifies himself as "transgender".

[Jackie7]

gee, never occurred to me that it could be an issue so I asked my sweet wife, she said it never occurred to her either, and she likes it whenever we are affectionate with each other no matter how we are dressed. I think it is that neither one of us has any illusions, while I do my best to dress pretty and look and act appropriately, I'm still a man wearing a costume and she's still a GG, and we're a hetero couple who are lucky enough to like each other a lot.

If you can accept her feelings, you could take her remark as a compliment and enjoy it -- you blend so well that you really do look like a couple of girls.

[CONSUELO]

"Cross dressers are difficult to predict". Discuss

[Meghan4now]

The one time out with my wife, I winked at her.

"Do NOT wink at my dressed like that!" Okay, good to know.....

[ReineD]

To the people who suggest the OP’s wife does not want to be perceived as a lesbian because she is fearful of negative reactions or is somehow homophobic, I want to say that to affirm who we are as people does not mean that we are phobic of others.

I am Canadian. When I travel out of North America and speak English, I correct people who believe me to be American. French is my native language. When speaking French to foreigners I correct them if they believe me to be European French. I am not fearful of or prejudiced against Americans or the French from France, in fact I love them. I just want people to perceive me as who I am, a French Canadian.

Likewise, I do not want to be perceived as a lesbian because I am not lesbian.

That said, there is another reason my SO and I are not physically affectionate in public. Same-sex friends who do stuff together do not draw attention, but same-sex couples still do in some main-stream areas. This potentially causes people to fix their gaze upon us, which increases the chances for my SO being read. No one would know that my SO is a birth male if they don’t pay attention, if we are at the periphery of their vision - the more salient outward cues are properly female (the hair, the clothing, the body shape while dressed, etc). But, upon closer inspection, people can tell. My SO prefers to not be perceived as a man in a dress. I don't mind being affectionate with my SO in a GLBT club or bar though, because people there know my SO is a birth-male anyway.