She wants a list! WTH!

[Cindy.]

My wife and I were shopping and talking today. I commented on outfits while we shopped and almost tried on shoes. I have a bad habit of obsessing in conversations so she asked for a written list of what I wanted to do as far as dressing goes. This becomes a paradox. I'd love to transition (in theory) but can only afford it with her. She won't accept transitioning. If we divorced I'd be free to transition but would be stuck as a male to pay bills. Has anyone else went down this road? What happened? I'm thinking about putting it all out there on paper but I'm not sure.

[JanePeterson]

I'm kinda new at this, and haven't had a similar experience with my spouse... but if she knew how much transitioning would mean to you, would she still hold the same opinion? It almost seems like an open discussion about your needs and goals would lead her to understand where you are coming from, and could either open the door to an amicable transition, or at least with all the facts on the table you both can make a decision about where the marriage goes. I assume that she wouldn't want you to spend the rest of your life in misery, so perhaps shed be willing to entertain some kind of middle ground for a while? Also, writing it all down can help you categorize your thoughts, i would be careful using that as the way of discussing these issues - writing loses so much emotional content, I think a well rehearsed and thought out discussion with your SO might be more effective - I've found it easier to break these discussions into smaller parts with my wife so we don't get lost in the 1000 issues/consequences of where our journey is taking us. Best of luck, and happy new year!!

xoxo

Jane

[Frances]

One transitions because the itensity of the dysphoria is not bearable anymore, not because of an SO support or lack thereof. People go into bankruptcy and make do.

[Rogina B]

You would be paying the same bills as a female earning ?.....Get's real fast !

[Eryn]

The question is why she wants a list.

Does she want to help you sort out your own desires?
Does she want a contract limiting what you can do?
Does she want to get some of the items for you?
Does she....?

You can see that this can get sticky fast. Rather than a list, why don't you sit down and talk privately and seriously about your feelings with your spouse?

[Badtranny]

I'd love to transition (in theory)

This is silliness. We don't transition in theory here. We do the real thing and take our lumps. Who do you think pays my bills?

Transition talk should probably be saved for after you've been out a few times don't you think?

[Suzanne F]

I would have to say if you can't try on shoes you probably are not ready to think about transition. How about telling her you need to start discussing this in therapy and ask for her support? Take some small steps and get back to us with your questions that are generated.
Suzanne

[Cindy.]

The only reason I didn't try on shoes is because I didn't want her to be surprised and uncomfortable.

As for my situation being reduced to "silliness": I can look at an entire group of men and not feel like I identify with them. I can also look at a group of women and feel like I identify with them on at least a few levels. You can call it silliness all day. You live in San Francisco bay where things are way more accepted. I live in the mid west where I can be fired for just being me and there's nothing I can do about it. My milestones may be short to you, but reducing them to "silliness" is probably something you never would have done face to face in a support group meeting. And if you would have, then any negativity you've felt in the world would probably be from your attitude instead of your transition. Of all the places that I thought would reduce my feelings and label my desires as "silliness", this is the last.

I'm disappointed. I think I'll leave for a while. To all those that shared kind words: thank you.

[Megan G]

Cindy,

If your getting upset by a few comments on an Internet forum, your also not ready to talk transition. It gets way worse in real life....

The girls that you feel are being harsh to you are also the girls that walked this path before you, regardless of local. As Misty said we don't do this in theory, we do this in real life and we do it at all costs. We loose marriages, families, friends, jobs, careers, financial security and everything else you can think of possibly adding to the mix.

We did not transition because we would "love to in theory", we did so because we had to to exist, to save our lives.

[Badtranny]

You live in San Francisco bay where things are way more accepted. I live in the mid west where I can be fired for just being me and there's nothing I can do about it.

I only live here because I moved here to deal with my issues. I didn't have the courage to do it in Bakersfield so I got a divorce and moved to where I thought it would be easier. Maybe it was maybe it wasn't. I did what I thought I had to do.



My milestones may be short to you, but reducing them to "silliness" is probably something you never would have done face to face in a support group meeting.

There is nothing that I would say here that I wouldn't say to you personally. If we met somewhere and you started to talk about transition and I knew that you didn't even have a social life in your target gender, I would absolutely say you were being silly. Transition is serious business and I would ask you directly why you're talking about upending your life when you have almost zero experience in public?


I'm disappointed. I think I'll leave for a while. To all those that shared kind words: thank you.

Seriously, this is the TS Forum. There are girls here who have faced some serious adversity for the dubious privilege of just living an honest life.

[Frances]

There is discourse that is common to trans people and one to crossdressers. Not identifying with men does not make you trans, and neither does shopping for outfits with the wife. You may have to transition one day if the intensity gets high enough, but right now, it sounds like (fetishistic) fantasy.

Please tell us more about yourself, so that we don't react to red flags only.

[Eryn]

This is silliness. We don't transition in theory here. We do the real thing and take our lumps....

For many of us, the concept of being able to transition started as a vague idea, fantasy, and/or theory. For me, it took years for this to grow into a viable reality. Please don't call someone's ideas "silliness" just because their path doesn't match your ideal.

[Frances]

I doubt Melissa would call losing a career or professional credibility "ideal." There is no ideal; there is must.


But yes, it can be vague thing at the beginning, especially if there is still a lot of internal bargaining going on. Therapy helps sort it out, and does it way better than shoe purchasing.

[LeaP]

Seriously, this is the TS Forum. There are girls here who have faced some serious adversity for the dubious privilege of just living an honest life.

dubious is right.

... maybe better not to have one at all

[Badtranny]

Please don't call someone's ideas "silliness" just because their path doesn't match your ideal.

...and once again, you've completely missed the point.

Have you ever read anything I've ever posted? What exactly is my ideal? If you don't think I'm a proponent of the individual transition then you're just not paying attention. I have a whole blog about doing things your own damn way. You people who try to paint me as some kind of gate keeper just make yourselves look foolish. I've given up on defending the integrity of the word 'transition' or the term 'full-time' or even the idea of coming out. It's pointless among a majority that literally lives a second life online. I no longer care who is who or what is what around here, but c'mon, someone comes in here and says they want to transition in theory, but they've never even been out in public? You don't think that's even a little bit silly?

[Marcelle]

Hi Cindy,

You have to remember that for folks on this side of the forum, transition is a necessity and not a theoretical construct. I did not start out TS but as CD because that is what I thought would help take the edge off. Don't get me wrong, I probably knew but part of me was trying to protect my past life and while my wife knew about my dressing, I was certain that if I travelled down the TS path, it would end our relationship. So I took the middle ground with some success but unfortunately it did not last long before I became sullen and depressed again. When I was "him" I missed "her" and when I was "her" I did not miss "him" . . . at all. In fact I began to despise "him" and switching back and forth at work and in life became emotionally draining so I transitioned and have not looked back. My wife and I are still together but who knows what can happen in a day, a week, a month or never. Being TS carries a steep price and I truly believe we continue to pay interest on that price our entire life.

Perhaps you did not mean "transition in theory" in the sense it was taken in your post. However, I read back over your other posts and what seems to be missing is clear drive to be a woman beyond the superficial aspects of cross dressing. I am not saying you are not TS (you could be) but unless you have not posted about it, I see no experience beyond shopping and home dressing. In my own experience, when I first came out to my wife I swore up and down I would never see the light of day but the drive to present as a woman in public was too strong and I moved heaven and earth to do so and was in public within a month of the reveal and public to friends and family within three months. Therapy with a gender identity specialist was key to my understanding this part of me but I did not go into therapy looking to determine who I was but to bring order to chaos. Discovering what I probably already knew (I was TS) just fell naturally over two years of therapy.

All this to say, before making any rash decisions about being TS find a gender identity therapist and discuss it (if you have not done so already). You may indeed discover you are truly TS. Then again you may discover that beyond dressing at home there is nothing. In both instances, you will need to take steps to integrate that into your life. Being CD is an easier (note folks . . . not saying easy but easier) road because the "guy" still exists and folks around you might be able to adjust or it can be kept a private affair. However being TS, your birth gender never existed in reality it only masked your target (true) gender to conform to society and that places a huge emotional toll on the person. There can be no private TS life as the drive to be who you were born to be will overtake the need for privacy at some juncture and you will need to be your authentic self in all aspects of your life. The end result is doing what is necessary to align yourself to your true gender and that can (and in a lot of cases has) carry a huge price. If your concern is about finances or losing your wife, these are valid concerns but in the end if you are truly TS, these will take second chair to your need to become who you need to be. I believe those here who are way more experienced than I are just trying to impress upon you that discover who you truly are first (TS or not) before deciding to pursue something which comes with a huge price. Seek therapy, spend some time dressed in public, hook-up with other TG folks in your community and see where it goes.

Cheers

Marcelle

[ReineD]

If we divorced I'd be free to transition but would be stuck as a male to pay bills.

I won't comment on whether or not you should transition. I'm not qualified to do so. But I do want to comment on your relationship.

The statement I quote comes off as if you stay with her because you need help with the bills. Is your wife aware of this? There's no mention of love or the loss you might feel over a divorce. There's no mention of how it feels that she cannot see your authentic self, if your authenticity resides in being a woman.

So whether you transition or not, you might consider a divorce if only to allow your wife the opportunity to make a life with someone who values her for more than her financial contributions. Sorry if this sounds harsh, but I can only go by your written word.

[PaulaQ]

I have a bad habit of obsessing in conversations so she asked for a written list of what I wanted to do as far as dressing goes. ... I'm thinking about putting it all out there on paper but I'm not sure.

Since nobody really seemed to answer the question about why she would ask you for the list, I'll give it a shot, because it isn't a difficult question.

She wants to know the future. She is likely uncertain whether or not you are going to transition, so she wants assurances that it won't go that far. Some people feel entitled to a particular future - retired, married to the same person, etc. Transition makes all of that impossible in their minds. So the chance this could happen to her probably worries her a lot.

Unfortunately, she's asking you to make promises based on a future you can't predict. That is not an endeavor prone to frequently success.


So whether you transition or not, you might consider a divorce if only to allow your wife the opportunity to make a life with someone who values her for more than her financial contributions. Sorry if this sounds harsh, but I can only go by your written word.

That was harsh, and very troubling for a couple of reasons:
1. Telling someone to make a unilateral decision for someone else is generally horrible advice! So Cindy decides "well, I suck as a spouse, my wife's better off without me, so ull divorce her!" Doesn't Cindy's wife have a say in whether or not they stay together.

2. There are lots of reasons the OP might be heavily dependent on their spouse. Cindy could be retired. She might have a permanent medical condition that makes her dependent on someone else.