A question from a "still-secret" CD

[Danai]

Hi everybody...
I'm a crossdresser in the closet since I was 12-13y.....
I'm 23-24 and I really wanna go out as femme...
I wanna go out and have a womans fun you know?
I just wanted to ask you if you have any ideas on how to do it...

Problems:1)I live with my parents and they don't know my other side...
2)I don't have a car...

I'm also afraid that if I go out en femme and go to a "normal" bar and not a gay-bar or something that I will bump into someone I know...(Athens is small you know...even the world is small)

I thank you all in advance....

[Butterfly Bill]

I guess you'll have to either
(1) come out to your parents or
(2) get a place of your own to live, or
(3) go on holiday to another town and try it there.

(I would recommend (1) most of all.)

[Danai]

Thanks but...
1)I don't want them to know
2)I don't earn enough money to live on my own
3)I have friend and girlfriend and I can't just go on vacation on my own....

But thanks anyway...:)

[Paula Rae]

Hey Danai,
According to your questions and your answers to Bill, I don't think you have any choice but to stay in the closet and fantasize. :o

Ricki B

[Danai]

This isn't very helpfull you know.....
Come on girls...I'm sure you can come up with something...

[Carole]

Kalimera Danai

Bill's reply is probably the best advice, only you know your personal situation, nobody else can tell you what to do for the best. At one time or another we were all in the same position as you are. Therefore we had to either come out to our parents, and if lucky enough get to dress at home, wait until we moved to a place of our own when we started working, or go to an hotel for a nights dressing.

[Danai]

Kalimera Danai

Bill's reply is probably the best advice, only you know your personal situation, nobody else can tell you what to do for the best. At one time or another we were all in the same position as you are. Therefore we had to either come out to our parents, and if lucky enough get to dress at home, wait until we moved to a place of our own when we started working, or go to an hotel for a nights dressing.

Hotel?nights dressing?Seems nice...can you explain it a bit more clearer?

You also said kalimera...you know greek?

[Stacy Reso]

i would take a holiday if i could some where not too far but far enough so no1 will know me

[Billijo49504]

Tell your girlfriend, if she is excepting, go on vacation with her.

[Danai]

What?Tell my girlfriend?no no no no no!!!!Sorry...doesn't work for me...
Any other suggestions?What about this hotel thing?

[Helen MC]

I'm afraid your options appear to be be exceedingly limited as by your own statements to the questions put to you as you could not

1 Tell your parents. Neither could I and I never did nor will I ever do so.


2 Tell your girlfriend. I always let any woman I was serious with know and if they didn't like it then we spilt up as I knew I could not live a dual life, in drab when with her, in drag when alone. Is she REALLY for you if she could not be told of your CD side?

3 Move to a home of your own, (possibly in another part of Greece if Athens is too small). I did!, when I was 18. It was hard to begin with and many years till I was able to buy a place of my own. I had to rent to begin with. Are there places to rent in Athens or towns nearby?

Otherwise you are stuck in your present rut. I'm afraid there is no easy answer and you will have to make some hard choices as many of us here, such as myself, have had to do to decide how to live your future life.

[telemark44]

Danai,

I think you need to take whatever time you need to deal with coming to terms with yourself. I am a 49 y.o. crossdresser who still is in the closet, although my wife knows and understands (my three children do not know, as I am sitting here 4:30 am in one of my favorite dresses).

I would suggest trying to get to know some other, older CD's in your area (maybe even through this forum) who can help you out. Be careful, as you want to fully understand the motivations of the person who is willing to help. However, I think many, here in this forum, have pure motives. I would meet the person for coffee, lunch, etc. and get to know them better. Besides, it is nice to have friends.

The next step would be to go somewhere you feel safe. A mall in another town could be one. Or, as I did this weekend, go to a drag ball. Those are so much fun. A tg-friendly bar would be another place.

I would avoid going to a bar that is not tg-friendly. You never know what kind of crazy person you can run into.

XOXO,
Christine (from Vermont)

[swiss_susan]

A few things.

1) Athens is not by any stretch of the imagination small. 50% percent of the population of grece live there roughly 4 million people I believe.

2) Not telling you parents I understand, but really you should try to be honest with any SO. The longer you wait only makes it worse and harder.

3) if you want to take a holiday thats close go to Santorini, its beautiful has a party atmosphere and there are more than a few CD's around the place.

4) I think the hotel thing suggested is: rent a hotel room somewhere atke your stuff with you and dress there.

Hope that helps

Susan

[Sharon]

People spend their whole lives, sometimes, making excuses for not doing things. You need to be determined to do this and then you will find a way.

You don't want family or girlfriend to know? Fine.
You don't have enough income to move to your own place? Understandable.
Can't take a holiday on your own? Confused, but okay.

Take a train or bus to another town and rent a hotel room for a day or two. Will your income allow this? Surely you can find a place you can afford for a couple days.

If this is something you want, then just find a way to make it happen, and quit telling yourself why it cannot.

[Cathy Anderson]

According to your questions and your answers to Bill, I don't think you have any choice but to stay in the closet and fantasize.
1. Fantasy isn't necessarily as bad as one might think. One might, with reason, argue that fantasy has evolved in human beings partly as a way to gratify instincts that cannot be acted out in reality.

2. If one is TS, that is perhaps a reason to come out to ones parents. For a CD, though, I don't think this is always necessary or helpful. It can be a problem for two reasons. First, it put parents in a bind, as they must then decide how to handle it. Should they, as good parents, try to dissuade the crossdressing, tolerate it, or support it? They will likely have doubts and conflicts no matter what they do. Second, to come out means one has made a public statement about ones crossdressing, which is difficult since one does not even know oneself what crossdressing means.

Back to the original question. Sometimes I regret not having gone to bars when I was younger. Other times I'm glad I didn't.

Cathy

[Penny]

Fear can be awful. Total trust is pure love. If you want to come out, it's easier to confide in those that love you and you love and trust. Confide in your mother. As a general rule, women are more understanding. Print some
favorable threads from this site. Explain to her how you feel and that this is not new. Reassure that it's nothing either she or your father did. It's just how you feel. Alow her time to digest this and ask if "we can
talk again?" Telling you father may somehow threaten his manlihood. I wouldn't talk about your urges. One step at a time. If your mother wishes to tell your father, she will. This is the only way that I can see if you truly want to come out. If you can't trust your mother or your girlfriend then find some you can trust. Greater rewards require greater risks.

[MsJanessa]

Given all the choices the other ladies have suggested the only option other than those is to simply continue to fantasize---I'm assuming that your goal is to eventually move out of your parents' house and into a place of your own. Do you have a job/income that will eventually allow you to do this? Do you have a job/income which would currently allow you to rent a hotel room for a night or two so you could dress there? If you don't, then you should get sometype of employment which would allow you to live your own life. If you would like to cross dress in public but don't want your parents to know then realistically that is your only choice. Regarding your girlfriend, if you don't think she would accept it, then perhaps you should get another girlfriend who would accept it. You can either spend the rest of your life in a fantasy or you can actually live it. At age 23 you have a lot of time to decide and a lot of choices to make but you had better get busy and make them. You won't be young forever.

[HaleyPink2000]

I'd like to weigh in on this one.

Please forgive me for being blunt! Ok?
I don't know the complete story of your life!
Don't know your family, you or your GF.

So from what I know, or from what you have told us, here is my post.

1st and foremost, if you can't comeout to your Girl Friend, then you need a diffrent type woman in your life. One that belives in diversity. As many of us now don't have a choice, and have been in commited relationships for a long time. We are tied to our bond, so to speak. Your Fancy Free " Young One". You need a Girl Friend that does it for you, if you get my drift. Believes as you do, and likes the same movies you do etc etc etc... Honestly, I'm 54, and if you don't do this now, you will never find the soul mate you actually need. Oh, to be quite blunt. Don't use this Girl " your GF " and not include her in every part of your life. If you think She'd rat you out then She is not GF quality material. Per a Book " My Husband Betty, written by Helen Boyd, page 59". This addresses that secrets between two people " a couple " should stay between two people. You Should probably read this. Oh, also if you are just using her, and know that your going to dump Her. Thats wrong, shame shame. If you intend to find someone else that better suits you then be honest with this GF, and tell her. She deserves that. If you want a Woman that belives in Diversity, you have to get out of the house, and find one.

Your Parrents. Living at home, not good unless your in school. Then Thats ok.
Other than that the only other thing is that your staying around to help with health issues for them etc. Other than that, Move Out on your own. Most of the rest of us had to figure how to do it. So can you.

Ok, I don't know if you have thought of joining a TriEss group or not. But that might be good for you. Make friends with your local chapter people.

Driving, I don't understand that. You don't drive? Or don't have a Car?

I am sorry, I don't know you. You might be the brightest young person around. It's just strange to me, that at your age your not out on your own.
One good thing is you still have time to get all that you need, before you ever get married, and have kids!

What would I do? I'd contact the TriEss people in your area and see if they can help you with transportation to meetings etc. Many groups get together in Hotels and that would give you a cheap weekend away from home dressed. I might even take the GF with.

Haley:)

[livy_m_b]

See below for questions - but, I love your avatar! :) Can I steal it? :) Where did you find it?

Now, the questions: From reading your answers to the suggestions, it seems you might be a person who's argued herself into a corner.

As a matter of principle, when I detect I've done similar things, and I do over and over again, I say: "inputs or processing". By that I mean in my aphoristic way, that I either need more inputs or a different way of processing the inputs to break through the barrier. But, most importantly, I treat "being in the corner" as evidence that something is wrong somewhere somehow with my reasoning!

[nikky]

im in sort of the same situation....im the same age as you and live at home and have a girlfriend i dont want to tell yet, for whatever reasons. i am only out to one person, a friend of mine, female, who (long story - short) made a comment about my schoolgirl halloween costume two years ago and i just told her about the other me. she has been cool with it and her and i have been talking about going out in the city ever since. we have yet to do so but i do go to her place on occasion and dress or just wear something like flip flops and nail polish around her and it makes me feel like just another girl.

my advice is to find a friend who may be excepting and who really has not close contact with you circle of friends and see how she reacts to you...you may be in for a suprise. turned out my friend has a best friend who works in a beauty salon and wants to go out with us and do my makeup and stuff so i found the right girl. just need the courage to do so.

[Laura Jane]

Danai,

It seems to me you are not ready to go out en femme.

You need to start with little steps before you start to run. A furtive session of dressing up every now and then when everyone else is out, will not prepare you for the great outdoors and the club scene!

Have you got your own female shoes? Do you have a handbag or a coat? Are you any good with make up? Do you own a wig or have a long hair?

A hundred little details which you only pick up through practice and experience.

If you haven't the courage to tell someone you know, do you think your nerve will hold in front 50 strangers?

[HaleyPink2000]

Laura Jane! Well spoken Sis!

Big Hugs!
Haley:)

[Kimberly]

This is what I've got planned Friday night... And I'm in nearly exaclty the same position as you are!

Friday night I'm going from a theatre rehearsal out clubbing... going to meet friends in the pub next to the club we're going to, and then we're all dressing up like schoolgirls!! Some of the people know that I dress, others don't and are just there to have fun... like I am!! My parents aren't aware that I'm going out en fem, but it will be my first time.

My advice to you, is plan... The pub, and club, I'm going to is very alternative - so it won't be too much bother, the fact that I'm crossdressing... The second thing is, my friends are dressing up too! So I won't be the only one... therefore it won't look to obvious that I'm transgendered, because if I'm there having a laugh with everyone else, then we're just doing it for fun.

You don't need to explain yourself to anyone - but I have come out to a few friends, a couple of which will be there friday night, so I have their support.

If all goes to plan, Kimberly could be dancing away, dressed like a schoolgirl, to cheesy 80s dance music this time tomorrow night! :)

wish me all luck xx

[MelissaAndProudOfIt]

Danai

Wow have you ever a multititude of problems

1) live in a small place like Greece
2) No Car
3) A Girl friend
4) Limited funds

and did I forget anything, or get anything wrong.

You had me pondering on this one...


There is a way out of this mess, that won't require going anywhere!...

Howabout organising a fancy-dress party at your home and dress up en femme, this seems like an interesting tester idea... Won't need the car, get every one to come with a bottle of drink and some effort towards a buffet, which will cut down on the funds required. The girlfriend will see you dressed, and if she doesn't like it well you won't lose her... as it's all in a party situation and is fancy dress after all... to me this seems a pretty good way out of your problem.... your parents won't worry too much about it either, and all your friends would be all dressed up too.... give it a theme if you want... let you imagination go to work lol....


**ADDITIONAL NOTE**

Danai..

If your Girlfriend see's you crossdressed then she might actually like it, though may not admit it..lol maybe you could have a party once a month again following the same sorta idea, just change the theme ...... I know this isn't much of an idea, but noticing you were so restricted It's the only one i could come up with personally. After having many of these parties your parents and friends might find the preverbial stone dropping and hitting rock bottom, with them realizing the message you're trying to convey to them... mind you - i guess this all depends on the frequency of partys you run in any given month.... if many the clue might be more obvious lol.... seems the only solution i can think of anyway...


I wish you well with any of your future moves and personal successes


Melissa

[Danai]

Thanks everyone.
You have been very suportive and you don't even know me...
I love this forum....
I have thought some things of what you said...
1)I really can't tell my parents and my girlfriend yet....
2)I did tell it to my best friend though and HE LOVED IT!
He has a car and he offered me to go out with him en femm to a tg-friendly bar or something so we are planning it together....
Thank you all once again girls...thanks.18639

[Helen MC]

I have no wish to argue with Penny but coming out to your Mum may not be as easy as it might seem from a Western/US perspective.

Danai, correct me if I am wrong here but Greece is both quite a religious country, Greek Orthodox a very beautiful but authoritarian religion, and a Patriarchal society. A mother could then be the secondary person in the home and the father would rule. If informed of her son's crossdressing and assuming she was not anti herself, she would then be put in a conflict situation of loyalty to her husband Vs protection of her son.

In my own case I was very careful not not be discovered even only wearing panties when living in the family home as a teenager from 12 to 18 . I have thought what would have happened if I had "come out" to any of my family. My sister Anne, who's panties I borrowed, would probably have kept the secret, she turned out to be a very liberal person in many ways. My mother would have been shocked, remember this was the 1960s in England and would I am sure felt it was her duty to tell my father. He would have exploded, said I was a "poof" and mentally ill and have sent me for "treatment" (electric shocks, aversion therapy) to "cure" me of this "sickness". So very wisely I told nobody and it was a when I was living over 200 miles away and an adult that anyone was to know and NOT my family. My father is now a very old man and cannot harm me in any way now, but I still would not want him to know as it would hurt him and his life values and I can just imagine him saying to himself "Where did I go wrong?" the cliche' of the parent when their child does not turn out as they wanted or as a clone of themselves. Better he dies in a few years time in blissfull ignorance than I hurt him by telling him something he neither wants nor needs to know!

Pontius Pilate asked "What is Truth?" . My answer is a bloody dangerous matter which can wreak terrible damage if not properly contained and controlled, both to the teller and the listener.

[livy_m_b]

"What is Truth?" . My answer is a bloody dangerous matter which can wreak terrible damage if not properly contained and controlled, both to the teller and the listener.

Amen, Helen! Truth, and for that matter Good, are dangerous values that must be carefully handled to avoid harming those who have cared for us and really done us no intentional harm. Someplace there may be someone wise enough to tell us when to refrain (with fear and trembling) from truth good to prevent harm - in the meantime, it's part of living to care for those we love, even being careful with the truth.

[Danai]

I have no wish to argue with Penny but coming out to your Mum may not be as easy as it might seem from a Western/US perspective.

Danai, correct me if I am wrong here but Greece is both quite a religious country, Greek Orthodox a very beautiful but authoritarian religion, and a Patriarchal society. A mother could then be the secondary person in the home and the father would rule. If informed of her son's crossdressing and assuming she was not anti herself, she would then be put in a conflict situation of loyalty to her husband Vs protection of her son.

In my own case I was very careful not not be discovered even only wearing panties when living in the family home as a teenager from 12 to 18 . I have thought what would have happened if I had "come out" to any of my family. My sister Anne, who's panties I borrowed, would probably have kept the secret, she turned out to be a very liberal person in many ways. My mother would have been shocked, remember this was the 1960s in England and would I am sure felt it was her duty to tell my father. He would have exploded, said I was a "poof" and mentally ill and have sent me for "treatment" (electric shocks, aversion therapy) to "cure" me of this "sickness". So very wisely I told nobody and it was a when I was living over 200 miles away and an adult that anyone was to know and NOT my family. My father is now a very old man and cannot harm me in any way now, but I still would not want him to know as it would hurt him and his life values and I can just imagine him saying to himself "Where did I go wrong?" the cliche' of the parent when their child does not turn out as they wanted or as a clone of themselves. Better he dies in a few years time in blissfull ignorance than I hurt him by telling him something he neither wants nor needs to know!

Pontius Pilate asked "What is Truth?" . My answer is a bloody dangerous matter which can wreak terrible damage if not properly contained and controlled, both to the teller and the listener.


I can't agree with you more mate!You are absolutely right...exept the religious thing in Greece...actualy in my house(don't ask why) we don't much believe in any God and my both parents are incharge of the wheel...
But all the rest you said is damn right!
I can't tell them...don't wanna hurt them....
As I said earlier I will go out with my best friend... :)
So...thanks every one...

[Sweet Jeanette]

Hi everybody...
I'm a crossdresser in the closet since I was 12-13y.....
I'm 23-24 and I really wanna go out as femme...
I wanna go out and have a womans fun you know?
I just wanted to ask you if you have any ideas on how to do it...

Problems:1)I live with my parents and they don't know my other side...
2)I don't have a car...

I'm also afraid that if I go out en femme and go to a "normal" bar and not a gay-bar or something that I will bump into someone I know...(Athens is small you know...even the world is small)

I thank you all in advance....

Only one thing I can tell you, and that is from EXPERIENCE: ---Do Not, go to a (normal bar), as you call it!!!
That is just asking for trouble! :cry: ---Of course, I live in a town full of Rednecks and cowboys! ---And they like to hurt us!:eek: ------If I were to do that, I would surely be beaten outside the bar, when I came out, ---If not worse!!!

[Danai]

Only one thing I can tell you, and that is from EXPERIENCE: ---Do Not, go to a (normal bar), as you call it!!!
That is just asking for trouble! :cry: ---Of course, I live in a town full of Rednecks and cowboys! ---And they like to hurt us!:eek: ------If I were to do that, I would surely be beaten outside the bar, when I came out, ---If not worse!!!

Been doing some martial arts sugar....ain't afraid of anyone.....
But thanks for the advice

[Sam-antha]

A step at a time please. You only have one course at present, to stay away from home for one night in some hotel, somewhere in town. There you can dress and go walkies. That is a big step in itself, I mean leaving yur room, dressed and going out of the hotel into the street..
Get used to the feeling and the things that go with it, seeing yourself in a shop window, in a mirror in a big department store....
Just make that first step via an hotel, small or large. Of course the larger it is the safer you may feel. Your choice, fantasy or a short walk on what seems to be the wild side.
Stay away from bars for a while tho. A MacDonalds is enough to start with.
Enjoy and be brave Love