Embarrassing/eye opener

[JanePeterson]

Don't worry, not having another meltdown thread already :)

Went for first Electrolysis consult/ treatment today... Lady was super nice, immediately figures out where I work ( $$&@ small town!!!), and appears that she'll do an excellent job/be able to work great.

THEN, after mentioning I'm married... She feels compelled to tell me "Oh, it's SO nice to have a NORMAL man in here... I have a few clients who are 'making some changes' (grotesque arm wave towards crotch) and it's nice to have a regular guy in here" wink wink don't worry pal you're on our team kinda thing.

First instinct - RUN! She's on to you!!

Second instinct - jump off chair and shake my finger in her face

What did I actually do? Of course, sat there and said nothing

She's the only show in town, so maybe I should think of this as a way of changing her opinion over time... But the fact that she knows where I work now means I'm at risk (Damn!)

The worst part is I'm pretty sure everyone out here feels that way, so even if I did find someone else to do it would likely be the same. Maybe I'll ask her next time of those other girls making changes money isnt as good as mine? Bitch! (Sorry!!)


Oh well, first experience with bigotry happens on my first day- gotta love it!!

Xoxo

Jane

[STACY B]

LOL,,,, Oh I would NEVER Do that,,lol,, Pointing downward,,,lol,,, Wonder why she thinks your in there? I'm willing to Bet there aren't many Men that would spend that kind of money on Hair removal and Not on Hunting and Fishing instead? As a Matter of fact I don't know of any Man that facial hair removal would EVER cross there minds,,, Ain't that Funny how people react about stuff they now Nothing about?

I would have said(What kind of changes)? And then let her Hang herself, Don't be mean or ugly,, Just ask and then listen, Let her talk and tell you all about it,, And then ask her about her degree in Gender therapy?
Hell if I would have knew that you already had all the answers I could have saved a lot of money and just came over and asked you all about it ,lol,,

[JanePeterson]

Didn't realize my man-Camo was that good!! Wonder how long till she figures it out? Maybe then she won't want my money anymore :p

[AllieSF]

Actually Stacy, my electrologist, has many male clients some straight and some gay and some trans who go in for hair removal. Some don't like hair, others want that smooth look and touch for their girlfriends and SO's, us TG's and others for whatever reason. Fortunately, she is a great lady who has a lot of trans clients and friends.

Wow Jane, that is an awkward situation to be in. I am not sure what I would do, besides looking for someone else who is less bigoted even if I had to drive to a few towns/cities away. Where I go, there are sometimes women who will not look at me when they leave the office, and others who are just as private as we are and do not want anyone else to know that they need facial hair removal, least of all their husband and other lady friends. But then the electrologist world is small and they all may know each other and probably do their own professional gossiping. Is there a TG support group relatively nearby? You could ask them for recommendations about someone who respects their clients and will not talk. From what you said, I would guess that she would love to gossip all over the place if she found out about you, which is exactly what you do not want to happen. She will probably gossip anyway about a new male client of hers. Believe me, they talk as much as hairdressers, because their clients like to talk when there. I would just hope that she never gives your name out, which she should not do for client privacy. But some people are just like that and talk anyway. I am surprised that she didn't ask you why you wanted your hair removed?

If you stay with her, watch what you say for obvious reasons. Good luck.

PS: Just saw you second post. Hell, if she will do it for free (not wanting your money), I would go to her!

[JanePeterson]

I happen to have really bad razor burn permanently on my neck... And my profession/the fact that I'm married make it pretty unlikely that I would be confused for a trans woman at this point. All I told her was "I can't stand the thought of shaving every day for the next 40ish years" - but really, I'm pretty sure most men don't have their hair permanently removed?!

I am thinking about writing her an email... Something along the lines of thanks for the appointment... BUT - I know several trans persons and their lives are really pretty hard as it is, and I felt like your comment was somehow disparaging towards them - do you really feel that way? Etc etc and maybe I can back her down - as to figuring me out, in the type of guy who would never be suspected in a million years... But this is a pretty big "risk" I guess... Wonder what she'll make of my shaved arms? Or legs for that matter!!

I seriously live about 100 miles from the next town, and it's smaller and more hick than mine ( in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan - and my pesky job prevents going to Canada without a bunch of hassle)

[VanTG]

Interesting dilemma Jane.

Its kind of funny because your paying her for a service and she is bad mouthing you.
Its difficult because of your location. I am wondering if you could do it anonymously, or pretend to be an ex-client and send her an email. Its easy to create different email address.

Best of luck with however you approach it.

[Eryn]

I'd say that your electrologist is not very smart as a businesswoman. That single off-hand comment might have sent $10K+ of business out the door! She should have learned by now that she should never be disrespectful to anyone.

Very few non-TG men would invest huge sums of money to getting rid of their beards. They might want some stray hairs cleaned up, but beard removal? No way! Any electrologist worth her salt knows this and there is no point in trying to lead them astray. I went for a year before I acknowledged that I was TG to my electrologist which was a rookie move on my part. After she was in the know she connected me with several other TG ladies in my area that I otherwise would not have met.

Now the dilemma is whether to continue to patronize a person who is so disrespectful of us. Even if she is "the only game in town" there are other alternatives, such as the zap-a-thon approach. If you do decide to take your business elsewhere, please make sure that this electrologist knows why you did so.

[JanePeterson]

yeah, not a very intelligent move on her part - i tell yah, for some reason people always open up to me with their ugliest opinions... happens to me all the time!!

My thoughts right now are to try and get her to apologize while not seeming too personally offended... if she feels a bit guilty about her behavior I hope she'll be a bit less inclined to out me in town.

here's what I've come up with so far:

hi XXXX!

thanks again for the consult/walk through today - do you have an hour next Friday afternoon?


Also, I didn’t say anything at the time, but I was a bit shocked by your comments about having transgender clients... I've served with a few folks dealing with gender issues and knowing how hard their lives are, cant help but think maybe I misunderstood what you were saying?

thanks,

XXX

Thoughts?

[debstar]

I'm going a 1.5 hour round trip drive for my one hour a week electo because the tech advertised as TG friendly. So she knows her stuff and has done preoperative genital hair removal for many clients. Although I'm just working on my face at the moment.

The main good thing about it is the open and frank discussions we have so that makes a pain a little more enjoyable. I would recommend traveling a little further if you can for the work.


Debs.

[AllieSF]

Jane,

I would never put that in writing. It can always come back to haunt you. Verbally, have at it plus you can then judge her reaction and respond accordingly. She will probably apologize some, but I think she has her mind made up about us. Gentle instruction may work better over time, especially when she understands how she could possibly increase income by being more accepting to us and could get referrals from us. TG's go for complete hair removal and that is a lot over an extended period of time, compared to most of their GG clients who come in for problems areas and stray wild hairs with 15 minute to half hour appointments. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

Eryn, I can understand small rural areas where "normal" males do not get facial and body hair removal. However, in bigger metropolitan areas I believe that it is more common that we think.

PS: Deb, I have those same interesting conversations with my electrologist. She is a friend of mine now and I go with her and sometimes her GG friends to see Broadway plays and ballets on a regular basis. When you are stuck in one position for an hour or more good conversations are so much easier.

[Eryn]

My thoughts right now are to try and get her to apologize while not seeming too personally offended... if she feels a bit guilty about her behavior I hope she'll be a bit less inclined to out me in town.

here's what I've come up with so far:

hi XXXX!
thanks again for the consult/walk through today - do you have an hour next Friday afternoon?
Also, I didn’t say anything at the time, but I was a bit shocked by your comments about having transgender clients... I've served with a few folks dealing with gender issues and knowing how hard their lives are, cant help but think maybe I misunderstood what you were saying?
thanks,
XXX

Thoughts?

If you are going to address this issue with her I feel that you should do it in person, not via email or text. Words on a screen are often misinterpreted.

I have mixed feelings about concealing your TG status.

As I have said before it is really futile. It would be an opportunity to educate her that many wives of TG individuals are supportive. It also might lead to connections with other TG ladies which may prove helpful.

On the negative side, this electrologist has already proven that she doesn't respect confidentiality. Whether you tell her about being TG or not she will likely talk about you to others.


...Eryn, I can understand small rural areas where "normal" males do not get facial and body hair removal. However, in bigger metropolitan areas I believe that it is more common that we think....

I believe that Jane lives in a small rural community.

I've asked the question and my electrologist, who has many years of experience in the LA area, said that she has never done a beard removal on a non-TG male.

It just doesn't pencil out. The time and money I've spent on electrolysis is more than I would have spent shaving and buying shaving products for the rest of my life. The discomfort just wouldn't be worth it.

The real product that we're buying with facial hair removal is the elimination of beard shadow, not the hair. Razors are cheap and easy when it comes to hair, but to achieve GG-levels of freedom with going out the beard shadow had to go!

[MissDanielle]

Reading about your experience makes me glad to not have any negative experience so far in booking and confirming my appointment for next month. Living in a trans friendly city makes a big difference.

[STACY B]

Well Hell AllieSF,, You live in San Francisco ,,lol,,, She lives in Mayberry,,,,,lol,,, Big,Big,Big difference,, Like being on another Planet,,, These small towns were from Born and Raised Rumors travel FAST,,, An no self respecting Man would be caught dead getting Face Hair removed,,,Thousands and Thousands of Dollars spent on that when I am most assured that it could or would be spent on a New Bass Boat or 4 wheeler or Hot Rod or Motor cycle,,lol,, Maybe even a Tattoo,,, But Face hair removed,,, I think not,, Maybe where your from but not here,,lol,,,

[AllieSF]

I agree Stacy about that small town stuff, and she is located a couple of hours away from where I went to college. Definitely small town atmosphere even in the larger college cities. I said that in my post above. My posts about straight males doing that were referring to larger cities with more diversity.

[LydiaL]

OMG Jane, I can relate to your pain. I grew up in Western Michigan so am familiar with the UP. I thought NM was a wasteland for CDers. Now not so much!

Probably best to bite your lip as far as her opines... otherwise folks for hundreds of square miles will know your secrets. :shush:

[JanePeterson]

OMG Jane, I can relate to your pain. I grew up in Western Michigan so am familiar with the UP. I thought NM was a wasteland for CDers. Now not so much!

Probably best to bite your lip as far as her opines... otherwise folks for hundreds of square miles will know your secrets. :shush:

thanks!! i think I'm with you there... just going to have to send her one hot ass christmas card in a few years with a big middle finger... on the plus side, she only charges 35 an hour and shell book appointments as long as i can stand sitting there, so aside from the moral issues its ideal

her place is RIGHT next to the big hardware store in town, so i can leave my vehicle parked out front with no questions asked too


** edit

i guess another way to put it: cowardice and GD will trump righteousness and PC... at least for the time being

[Jennifer-GWN]

Jane;

First make sure she's good as this is so important. Convenience is not the first measure. Her disposition can be dealt with gently over time as it will become clear to her in due course.

Interesting the comments on men getting their facial hair removed. I go to an excellent lady near me, small area, and she has 2 male clients that I know of because their appointments often back on mine. When I approached my tech I was very clear and open up front and she's become quite a friend in the process. Never blinked an eye from day 1.

Over the summer I relocated and went to someone "with trans experience". The trans experience she might have had but her abilities with the probe sucked. I stopped after much grief which meant putting off electro for a month until returning home.

In the end you'll want good service and a good relationship helps as you'll be spending a LOT OF TIME TOGETHER so you need to be comfortable. I'm hitting 100+ hours and continue an average of 2 to 2 1/2 hours a week.

Cheers... Jennifer

[Eryn]

...her place is RIGHT next to the big hardware store in town, so i can leave my vehicle parked out front with no questions asked too...

LOL, my electrologist is between a skin care salon and a nail salon, with a hair salon at the end of the set. I drive a unique vehicle too. So far, no issues! :)

[JanePeterson]

not to be TOO dramatic, but my little town here probably has more in common with some parts of the middle east that it does to any normal urban US center - so really i should have been prepared for this (Duh!) - part of it is I've never been emotionally poked in the eye before... so I'm going to consider it as a toughening up lesson.

As for her skill, i don't have much in the way of expertise to judge, but she had a competent manor and was able to speak intelligently about the process... i could see her eyes light up when she saw my dense thick facial hair like dollar bills growing on a money tree :) we were able to converse just fine, and if she annoys me ill just bring an iPod.

To be honest, this may just be a head start on the eventual completion due to my current schedule being so chaotic, but if i can kill off a few whiskers a week then at least its a step in the right direction.

Maybe she read my reaction more than i thought - at the end she told me "anyone who sees you in the waiting room will assume you're here for a massage... so you don't have to worry about what people think... unless you want to tell them that you're here for electro"

I'm surprised more Cis people in the Tattoo world don't go for electro, as the sensation was similar and equally painful/pleasing in that way. i guess nobody notices a lack of hair unlike artwork though - and its 100x the price!

[Rogina B]

She isn't very professional so I hope she works ok..

[Kate T]

I actually wonder Jane if, and no offence meant to yourself, you may have over read / misinterpreted her.

I've said this before but I wonder if sometimes peoples responses to us are, at least in part, affected by our approach. Using the analogy I've used before if you're approached by a dog who is fearful, nervous, ready to bark at any sudden or unexpected movement then you tend to be extremely cautious and less likely to try and pat that dog (rightly so). If however you are approached by a bouncing Labrador that bounds up tail wagging and wanting to kiss you to death then you are far more likely to pat and engage with that dog.

I live in a small (15K population) town in regional NSW Australia. The average age is 50+ and the town just about defines middle class white Australia. The acceptance myself and my family have received has been absolutely amazing. What we have been VERY careful NOT to do is judge people or assume how they are likely to react. We just tell them the truth. So far I have had 3 people who have been rude or made me feel uncomfortable. I lost count a long time ago of the number of compliments, hugs, well wishes, offers of assistance, gifts and various other gestures of goodwill that we have received (I say we meaning my family and myself).

Perhaps if you talk to her you may also be able to help her to understand why some individuals may be having electrolysis in the groin / genital area. She most likely has no idea that such treatment is an important precursor to SRS as some of the external skin may become a part of the internal reconstruction and having hair internally is likely to be a health issue. Once she realises it isn't some sort of "fetish" that individuals are getting this done then she may be more understanding and accepting.

Also, $35 an hour is a bloody bargain!!!!

[JanePeterson]

I actually wonder Jane if, and no offence meant to yourself, you may have over read / misinterpreted her.
you are absolutely right - my skin is paper thin and I'm jumping at every cricket in the corner... that being said, I also look like a manly man, and I think her way of putting me/herself at ease by meeting with an obvious dude was to make a distinction to try and say how i'm not like those "weirdos"


Perhaps if you talk to her you may also be able to help her to understand why some individuals may be having electrolysis in the groin / genital area.

her gestures weren't meant to imply the location of her services, she was def. talking about facial electrolysis for MtF trans people in this area... i think her emphasis was done in reaction to my completely freezing up like a deer in headlights when she started talking about it... she interpreted my dead pan as not understanding instead of visceral fear.


Also, $35 an hour is a bloody bargain!!!!

you better believe it! living on the fringe has a FEW benefits anyway!!


**edit

Thanks Danielle!! Whoopsie!

[MissDanielle]

FTM or MTF?

edit:
I was gonna say why would FTMs want their facial hair removed?

[Badtranny]

SO much consternation over nothing. Jane I promise you that you will look back on this next year and laugh at yourself.

Regarding bigotry, if the exchange happened just as you reported than she is indeed looking upon her TG clients with scorn. You are not being sensitive and it should bother you, but you do NOT have to out yourself. Just being a compassionate person who tries to empathize with the plight of people who must be having a hard time does not brand you as a tranny or queer.

I wouldn't say anything about it unless she brings it up again. In the meantime, just be yourself and I mean YOURSELF while you're on the table chatting. No, not lispy or femmy but just a real person. Drop the man act and just be an honest person who isn't pretending to be macho. I'm sure she's delightful in many ways so be friendly.

When she makes another comment, just tell her you don't have anything against those people. "We all have our own problems right?" Maybe you eventually come out to her, maybe you don't but it really doesn't matter. Just be a decent person and everything will work out fine.

[grace7777]

Not a smart move on her part, considering all the public figures in the last few years who made statements in private that caused them trouble later on, when made public.

[Kris Avery]

Jane,

I drive 12 hours r/t and stay in a hotel the night before ...just for a single electro session.
Of course, we do an entire clearing all at once, each time :o

Again, small town - so small it's a 2-3 hour r/t for ANY electrology or even laser - of ANY kind.. Hell, we don't even have a stoplight..

Hick, I got all the small minded transphobic bigots you could ever dream up located right here though.

[Krisi]

You have to make a choice - make a big issue out of her comment and find someone else to treat you or let it slide and continue with your treatments.

You shouldn't think you are going to change or "educate" her because you are not. All you can do is make your situation awkward. In life, you have to pick your battles and I don't think this would be a good one to engage in.

That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

[Eringirl]

The small town aspect is indeed a factor. I live in a smallish city, but still, not small town mindset. There are three or four electrolysis practices to choose from. My choice was extremely unscientific for sure !! ;). I asked a few people in my TG support group where they had their work done, and based on their comments, made a few phone calls. I stated right up front that I was Trans and was looking for full facial hair removal, and if they weren't comfortable with that, please let me know, and I would move on, no harm no foul. The first place I called was terrific. She said not an issue at all! I started going to her in male mode....but she could see that was increasingly uncomfortable for me, so on the third appointment she told me that it is okay to come to the sessions as my true self, and I have been ever since. We are now great friends, going out after work together etc. She also assured me that she does have male clients that are doing hair removal, with one or two being facial, and to the best of her knowledge, they are not trans.

So, I have been fortunate, but have approached all requests for service the same way...telling them straight out, up front, that I am trans, and I have not had an issue with my hair stylist, my make up guru at Sephora, who has also become a good friend, or my aesthetician who does my brows and nails. Maybe I am the anomaly??? Don't know, but that is just how it is for me.

I am not sure what I would do about telling her.....maybe wait until she gets to know you a bit better, develop a relationship, then tell her??? One thing I have learned is not to p!ss off the person who is about to stick a needle in your face a couple of thousand times.....ha ha.

[JanePeterson]

. I stated right up front that I was Trans and was looking for full facial hair removal, and if they weren't comfortable with that, please let me know, and I would move on, no harm no foul.

In hindsight, perhaps I should have done that anonymously and gaged her reaction... But honestly who's to say she would have been honest to my face if I told her? She obviously doesn't have THAT big a problem cause she's taking trans clients...

I think I'm just going to suck it up and just get it done - like previously stated, not sure why I am so shocked to find a lack of tolerance in the most rural part of the mid-west

Really wish I could get over to Canada to have this done... For being right next door their attitudes in general seem to be much more accepting.

But if I honestly evaluate all the challenges I am likely to face in the near future, a strained relationship with someone I'm paying to zap whiskers is actually pretty small potatoes.

[arbon]

There is no way I would pay someone that I knew had an issue like that. I even changed banks 3 times the first year - once I was misgendered that was it I was gone. Boycotted my favorite restaurant after noticing one of the employees pointing me out to another employee.

And consider her lack of professionalism? and $35 an hour? You want that person working on your face?

[tiffanynjcd24]

I would say life is not easy at all

[Eryn]

... I even changed banks 3 times the first year - once I was misgendered that was it I was gone. Boycotted my favorite restaurant after noticing one of the employees pointing me out to another employee....

This has been an issue with me. I am occasionally misgendered and although it really bothered me in the past I'm not really bothered now. If I were to be misgendered repeatedly by the same person I would take offense, but mistakes happen and if someone slips up once I'm not going to overreact. Heck, I've misgendered my friends inadvertently and I'm very glad that they cut me a little slack for my faux pas.

I've been "pointed out" too, but for exactly what I'm not sure. I'm a 6'2" fiftysomething woman. That in itself draws notice. I just look back at the audience and smile in a friendly fashion. That usually ends the event!

A lot has been said here about authenticity. Part of being authentic is being comfortable with what I am. Getting mad over an accidental misgendering hurts me and doesn't really educate the person doing the misgendering. It just shows them that TG people are obnoxious. OTOH, a gentle correction and continued interaction gets the lesson across.

Now, in a situation of repeated or malicious misgendering, I would definitely have a chat with the owner/manager of the business and in the end if I decided not to continue to patronize the business the manager (not the offender) would definitely know the reason. Just walking out and not coming back doesn't educate. Thankfully, this situation has never come up.

[pamela7]

really, Eryn? Today I was out, dressed, with my son, having lunch in Exeter, and the waiter repeatedly called me "sir". After a while we speculated he thought we were gay and that my son was the toy-boy. It was not a big deal really, i think in fact he was confusedly looking at me a few times, so i wondered if he just didn't know the protocol.

[arbon]

Eryn - yep. I am just one of those oversensitive, thin skinned, obnoxious trannies who is no good at all with educating.

[Eryn]

really, Eryn? Today I was out, dressed, with my son, having lunch in Exeter, and the waiter repeatedly called me "sir". After a while we speculated he thought we were gay and that my son was the toy-boy. It was not a big deal really, i think in fact he was confusedly looking at me a few times, so i wondered if he just didn't know the protocol.

That could well be. I note that the last few people who misgendered me were from very male-dominated cultures. Mimi and I speculated that, to them, it might be considered insulting for a male to be gendered as female even if presenting as such. It also might be a lack of familiarity with pronouns, as they tend to be English-learners. To them, it is a low-importance split-second decision and sometimes they screw it up.

I'd suggest that if the waiter misgendered you repeatedly but didn't do it with a bad attitude then you might be correct. A polite correction might do the waiter a world of good when dealing with the trans community.


Eryn - yep. I am just one of those oversensitive, thin skinned, obnoxious trannies who is no good at all with educating.

That's how your post read. It's pretty extreme to change banks three times in one year over pronoun usage.

I'll assume that you told someone in charge at each bank of your reason for switching. What would their personal reaction be to your action? Would they be distressed to lose your accounts or would they be happy to get rid of a potentially troublesome customer?

[gonegirl]

That's how your post read. It's pretty extreme to change banks three times in one year over pronoun usage.

Well, there's more to this than someone who is living part-time authentically .... who hasn't changed their legal identity, or fixed their body, or lost a whole heck of a lot in their life as a result of putting it ALL on the line by fully owning their identity..... can speak of from a position of experience.

When those of us who are actually fully living it.... as opposed to going out on social outings "dressed".... are treated poorly by people, there's a much deeper level of disrespect that is felt.

[Zooey]

It's definitely the case that, since going full-time, every misgendering cuts a bit deeper, and stings a bit more. They mostly come from people I knew before, who are generally good with pronouns, and occasionally slip up. That makes it a bit easier for me to rationalize, since it hasn't been that long for them, but once you actually shed the old persona reminders of it can get worse in a hurry.

[Eryn]

Ah, we're back to the "If you're not full time, you aren't entitled to speak" response? Wouldn't it be better to discuss the ideas rather than attack the speaker?

If an accidental misgendering is enough to cause such a disproportionate reaction, perhaps there are other issues here that need to be addressed.

Not long ago I was also hyper-sensitive to any sense that I might be perceived as other than female. I'd analyze every nuance of behavior of those around me looking for stares, giggles, etc. I found quite a few. I mentioned this to my therapist and she suggested that I pay the same level of attention while in male mode. Surprisingly, I found about the same amount of staring and giggling. That's what people do. I got beyond worrying about it and my quality of life improved.

As far as being misgendered goes, it happens. People make mistakes and they should be forgiven. I'd hate to have someone take offense at every mistake I make so I cut others a little slack too.

Repeatedly being misgendered by the same person is more serious. It's either ignorance or maliciousness and it needs to be addressed.

[arbon]

Eryn. I am not hyper sensitive. No, I've never complained to a manager of a business or anyone about such. If I have become uncomfortable with a business because my gender has become an issue I quietly leave and go to where I am more comfortable and don't have to deal with those issues. I am never make a bigger issue by correcting or trying to educate I just want live my life without those issues as much as I can. In case of the op knowing that that person has such a negative opinion already I would go somewhere else. I would not be comfortable spending all that time with that person working on my face.

I deal with being gendered wrong a lot with my jobs. I suck it up and take it because I need the money. Beyond that though it is easier for me choose to be in places where I don't have to deal with that crap. If I am having a problem with a bank or any other business I don't have to be there or or deal with it there.

[Angela Campbell]

Yes, in this case someone who is not full time cannot completely understand. I am a woman now, calling me sir is as much an insult as if he called me a butt wipe. I wouldn't put up with it for one second. It is not misgendering, not a mistake, it is an insult.

I didn't have any issues with my bank when I changed my name on the accounts, but would not have hesitated to close them if I had. I did change my cable company over a telephone conversation. Using the improper pronoun after they know the name or otherwise are informed is just not acceptable.

In the case of the electrolygist who tells you they know where you work, and obviously have issues with trans people, and is known to gossip. ...well unless you wish to come out sooner than you planned, this would be a good situation to avoid.

[Eryn]

I suppose it comes down to how easily one chooses to be offended. The people I meet don't know my internal struggles so they may not be as careful with language as I would like them to be.

In the unlikely even of someone calling me "Sir" with a sarcastic sneer in their manner I would certainly take offense. If someone called me "Sir" repeatedly I would also take offense. One sloppy pronoun mistake? Not worth the angst.

While I understand the desire to not be in a place that makes me uncomfortable, if I put every place where I have been misgendered off-limits there will eventually be few places remaining for me to go. In a sense, it lets the misgenderers win, since they have essentially banished me from places that I otherwise would like to go. Also, if I don't talk to someone in charge about my reason for not returning to a particular establishment the misgenderer's offense goes unpunished.

[Rianna Humble]

This thread seems to have been hijacked into a discussion of whether a person who is full time in transition or who has completed transition has the right to feel insulted by the slur of deliberate misgendering. Time to close.