Ladies Room

[Abbie965]

Just wanted to know if anyone has ever been arrested, or heard of, for using the ladies room? I go out dressed a good bit, and my only fear is using the ladies room when the need arises. I've been dressed while traveling (car) for work, and have avoided the rest area's for this fear. I usually travel GA, SC, NC. Funny, I can check in to a hotel, go to dinner, mall etc etc, but I am just scared to death of the ladies room. I have used it several times, I go in, do my stuff, then leave, never a problem...so far.

Abbie....

[Caren_G]

I was talked to by an officer in VA, but wasn't arrested. That was about 10 years ago, but nothing since and have been in many restrooms. I just go in and do my business and then leave. There was even once that I went in with a gg and we changed to go to a club and shared the only stall and changed while another woman came in to wash her hands.

[Eryn]

I'm sure that in the past you can find examples of people being arrested for being in the wrong restroom.

Occasionally people will be harassed for the same thing and we've heard those stories here.

However, one would think that on a CD forum of thousands of members there would have to be someone who had been arrested for being in the "wrong" restroom but it doesn't seem to have happened at any recent time.

[Hell on Heels]

Hell-o Abbie,
Can't say I've been arrested or had any other issues.
I always try to avoid restrooms altogether if possible, for that
particular concern.
I just saw on the news here tonight. San Francisco is starting some new
legislature to make public restrooms "All gender" restrooms.
No more holding it all night YAYYYYY!
Much Love,
Kristyn

[Tracii G]

Never had a problem using the ladies room.

[AllieSF]

I had a very good friend who was transitioning and was arrested in a small off strip casino in Las Vegas of all places. They never pressed charges and let her go. She thought that it may have been a set up by some of the working prostitute trans girls at that casino. So, you never know. I have been out hundreds of time here in the San Francisco area, Las Vegas and Detroit, Michigan and never had a problem using the women's restrooms. Do a search here and you may be able to find an old thread that had a list of laws and regulations by State about restroom usage by trans people. There may even be a sticky thread too. Good luck.

[Sandie70]

Over the last 50 years I have been used to European restrooms, many that have urinals in open view of the entrance to the women's rooms - and don't forget those women who clean the men's rooms... not bothering to close them down and simply scrubbing things down while you pee.

So, when I use a woman's restroom, I don't even think about it. Doing my business in the same room as women is natural to me. Of course, when I do this, I have dressed as well as I could to "pass," trying to look like I really want to be a woman. I think that if I simply put on a dress and go into a women's restroom with a growth of beard and hairy legs... well, I would expect to be arrested.

With that said, I've never had a problem - so far. Even when I knew some of the other women in the room had probably "clocked" me. All in all, the ladies I've encountered in restrooms didn't seem to be bothered by my presence.

[Krisi]

I have not been arrested for using the ladies restroom and have never hear or read a story about someone being arrested for using the ladies restroom.

On the other hand, I remember reading laws prohibiting anyone above a certain age (5 or 6 or so) from using a restroom marked for use by the other sex. Since such laws could be state or local, it would be pretty hard to compile a list of where it's legal and where it's not.

Regardless of specific laws, one could be charged with disorderly conduct, indecent exposure or several other laws depending on the circumstances.

What never comes out in these discussions (and it's a common thread hear) is the "passability" of the person using the ladies restroom. If you look like a woman and act like a woman, chances are, there will not be an issue. If you are a "man in a dress" making no effort to pass as a woman, that's another story and you are likely to make other females really uncomfortable and the police or store security may well be called.

The other issue you may have to deal with is the protective father who sends his six year old daughter into the ladies restroom and then sees you (as a non-passing male) walk in or out. Even though your mind is on relieving yourself, he may think the worst and take matters into his own hands.

Common sense tells us to try to find a unisex single stall restroom or failing that, a "family" restroom. These are becoming more common as new buildings are being built or old ones renovated.

[Lauri K]

I have not had any problems using the ladies room. And amazingly enough I have been chatted up by a few ladies recently in the ladies room commenting on my clothes or just saying hello.

[Katey888]

Abbie - I think you're unlikely to be arrested for just using a restroom in either the US or Europe (Sandie is right about the non-sensitivity to division in some parts of Europe - in general, we're a little less puritanical over here... ;)) but you should be aware of local legislation that supports any transgender rights to use the restroom of your choice. There are some web resources around - one is: http://www.refugerestrooms.org/about and there may be others. If you can find a unisex or single person facility, so much the better... :)

Katey x

[Sarasometimes]

I don't think being arrested is very likely although UMMV. I have used the ladies on occasion (a multi-stall arrangement) but I do avoid them when possible. I try for single seaters or unisex restrooms. I know most Starbucks have them. I have found hair salons will let you use their most of the time, I just walk in as about their services and prices and then ask if I may use their restroom. I tend to feel uneasy when i use the multi stall so to avoid the stress I look elsewhere.

[Tara Rushing]

Common sense tells us to try to find a unisex single stall restroom or failing that, a "family" restroom. These are becoming more common as new buildings are being built or old ones renovated.

Most of the bigger "supercenter" type retailers have these now. I have not been brave enough to go out in public yet, and one of my fears is needing use the restroom, so hopefully this trend of "family" restrooms continues to grow.

[Krisi]

If in doubt, survey the area in advance in male mode. Make a note of unisex or family restrooms.

[ChristinaK]

Living in CA, it's just not an issue. The law says that we can use the bathroom we feel is correct for what we think our gender is. Having said that, I have used women's restrooms all across the US. Restaurants, casinos, rest stops, convenience stores, theater, etc. A couple of times I have even had to stand in line, no strange looks.

I have never had any woman look at me funny or otherwise. A couple of times I have applied lip stick and at least once have had a short conversation that I can remember.

If you dress like a normal woman, even if you're 6' and 220lbs. like me, you will not garner any attention that would result in the pitchforks coming out. Even if there is suspicion, I believe that most women don't want to risk being wrong and making a fool out of themselves identifying a real 6' amazon.

Now, if you wear stiletto heels, leather minidress and fishnets at Walmart, you're going to ask for trouble. But, I still don't think the purses would start flying.

I do know that in Houston, the law has recently been set to discriminate, so I wouldn't want to push the issue there, but I have been to the restroom many times in Dallas and not had a problem.

[Stephanie47]

I always think discretion or caution is needed. In Washington State a rule/regulation just was implemented by the state concerning usage of public restrooms. Basically, it states transgenders may use the restroom applicable to their sexual identity. Uproar? Wow! Although state law prohibits discrimination in housing, employment, etc, you'd think aliens have landed. The issue that has arisen is the expectation of privacy when using the facilities. Many women just do not want to be confronted with a genetic male in the restroom. The whole issue of creeps exploiting the law has arisen. Some representative are talking law to prevent such usage.

I know there are many states that do not prohibit discrimination against transgenders. If I were so inclined to travel en femme I'd be checking the state laws. There are just too many variable in the laws.

[donnalee]

That proposed public restroom law in SF only applies to single seaters and, as many businesses have already done that, it really isn't that earth-shaking.

[Lauri K]

I do know that in Houston, the law has recently been set to discriminate, so I wouldn't want to push the issue there, but I have been to the restroom many times in Dallas and not had a problem.

While it is true that HERO failed in Houston, it has not changed how those of us that live here decide upon which restroom to use. Most of us are still using the ladies room just like we have been all these years, long before any local ordinance was even considered to be necessary. Is there a risk to using the ladies after HERO failed, sure, but the risk in the men's room is unchanged pass or fail on the ordinance. You decide which risks you can afford to take.

I have said this 1,000 times and will repeat and rinse, this patchwork of local, county and state laws regarding LGBT discrimination is a total fiasco and no one should be expected to know the laws regarding restrooms of all things from town to town, state to state, and so forth.

We need FEDERAL protections for employment, housing, bathrooms, healthcare and everything that falls under the umbrella ..........end of discussion.

In the end we must unite on this to end discrimination no matter what the issue.

[DeeArel]

In my opinion, the Ladies Room is for ladies. I find that if I act and dress like a lady, there is no issue with using the ladies room.

[MelanieAnne]

I usually travel GA, SC, NC.

That would be a red flag for me. Whether you are actually convicted of anything is irrelevant. Simply being arrested, cuffed and hauled off to be booked, and possibly having your car impounded or towed is bad enough, even if they drop all charges. It doesn't really matter what the actual law says. What matters is what the complainant or the officer perceives is or might be a violation. And you might be considered a sex offender, even if the charges are dropped. All it take is a hysterical woman to come screaming out of the restroom, or the protective father to try and detain you for the cops.

[Jilmac]

Whenever I'm dressed and presenting my feminine persona I will use the ladies room when the need arises. I have never been confronted for doing what is normal in such a facility, and have even conversed with GGs while washing my hands or doing my hair and makeup. I recall only one incident where I was with a group at a local casino, and my cd friend was told by security to not use the ladies room. Needless to say, neither of us will go back to that casino.

[Lauri K]

I recall only one incident where I was with a group at a local casino, and my cd friend was told by security to not use the ladies room..

I recommend if this happens to your friend or others again to contact Lambda Legal’s Help Desk (toll-free: 866-542-8336 or www.lambdalegal.org/help) which takes calls from transgender and gender-nonconforming people who have experienced discrimination / restrooms included.

[melissa_rinaldi]

Been in at least 500 including a couple at the Mötley Crue show on December 30 with no issue. Only problem was at the Chumash casino in Santa ynez where Mr plainclothes told me he was going to have me arrested after demanding to see my license

[alwayshave]

Only problem was at the Chumash casino in Santa ynez where Mr plainclothes told me he was going to have me arrested after demanding to see my license

Ah, while California laws allows you to use the facilities as you present, this does not apply on tribal land, where tribal law trumps state law.

[Katey888]

I have said this 1,000 times and will repeat and rinse, this patchwork of local, county and state laws regarding LGBT discrimination is a total fiasco and no one should be expected to know the laws regarding restrooms of all things from town to town, state to state, and so forth.

We need FEDERAL protections for employment, housing, bathrooms, healthcare and everything that falls under the umbrella ..........end of discussion.

In the end we must unite on this to end discrimination no matter what the issue.

Allow me to boost you to 1,001th :)

This is why community activism and vocal support is most important. Having consistent and fair rights on this and other issues should matter! :) (More so for the US than Europe, I know, but I thought the point was worth stressing as too often we seem to fall into the "I'm all right, Jack.." mindset here...)

Katey x

[Angela Marie]

I use the ladies restroom or a unisex one. I have never had an issue. Then again I have a slight feminine build so it is a bit easier for me. Laws and customs vary here in the states. One person opined about a federal law. Given the political climate in the US I don't see that happening in the foreseeable future.

[Vickie_CDTV]

Some states have unisex restrooms at their rest areas/service plazas (NY renovated them over time and now has them at all service plazas on the Thruway, but I don't believe the humble rest stops on along the rest of the interstates in NY do), you might want to check to see if any exist in the states you go through. Barring that, you may have to exit the interstate and find a single user restroom at a McDonald's or such. Some truck stops also have unisex restrooms.

Most will say it is a stupid issue to worry about, but it is always good to be prepared if you are concerned, and find a way around the issue completely. Believe me, I don't take many chances, especially when their are minors in the ladies room.

[Krisi]

Keep in mind that protection for "transgender" folks doesn't apply to crossdressers.

[AllieSF]

Krisi, that really depends on how any law or regulation is written. Some say "the gender that one is presenting". So a crossdresser would be covered if that person is presenting as the opposite gender. Now how to define presenting could be an issue, but basically is the outfit is male or female. That is more or less how it is worded in California so crossdressers are protected here.

[Lorileah]

Keep in mind that protection for "transgender" folks doesn't apply to crossdressers.
but how would the official know which you are?

[heatherdress]

We need common sense to prevail for bathrooms and locker rooms.

For those who suggest national potty laws and regulations - unconstitutional.

For those who want a myriad of state and local access laws: how can you really define who is allowed where; if transgenders have the same access rights as crossdressers; how to prove if you are transgender; what degree of crossdressing gets you in; what is OK in schools; if we convert to unisex rest room facilities and who pays; if there are differences between male and female transgender and crossdresser access rights; etc; etc; etc.

Simple policies or regulations which provide for discretion may be best. There will always, unfortunately, be complaints, loitering issues, and unfair treatment from thoughtless bouncers, administrators, restaurant owners and law enforcement personnel. But there are fortunately avenues to address unfairness.

[Katey888]

We need common sense to prevail for bathrooms and locker rooms.
....
Simple policies or regulations which provide for discretion may be best.

That makes sense to me... :)

Perhaps your legislators could take a lesson from the old world - our public conveniences (restrooms) are covered by all the usual laws that govern behaviour (ie. assault, threatening behaviour, public order, etc.) so anyone misbehaving in that most private of public spaces is subject to the same penalties as anywhere else, regardless of sex, gender identity or dress. The allocation of male and female defined spaces is deemed to be advisory only... this also allows for anyone to use any designated convenience in an emergency without fear of committing a technical 'foul'. Why doesn't someone suggest this...??

Or is this a case that the US is committed to legislating on everything (similar to the German "Alles verboten" - All is forbidden - principle, except where expressly allowed...?)? Sad for you if it is - but I suppose that ultimately just leads to more work for legislators and cases for attorneys. Call me cynical (I am...) but who benefits from this all encompassing legislation, and who would benefit from a relaxation of the specific laws...?

Oh, I know we're not going to change state or federal legislation by discussing it here - it just makes you think... or some of us, anyway... :)

Katey x

[Adriana Moretti]

I think you just gotta be smart about it, and where you are at and the laws etc.......obviously unisex is the best, here in NY i havent had a problem using the girls,....and sometimes the guys.....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqDlVtgeYnk

[Katie Louise]

Where I live in Queensland Australia, if you are dressed and you use the mens' room, you can be arrested for soliciting (because all crossdressers are prostitutes WTF?) So here you would be better to use the ladies' and get in, get out as quickly as possible or the accessible unisex toilets.

[TaraGrace]

oh wow, had not given this any thought at all (still fussing over what outfit to wear on my first time out naively with my head in the clouds).

thanks a lot, will deffinately give this some thought or ask locals for the Netherlands :)

[CourtneyJamieson]

I have used the Ladies Room at rest stops during road trips, at the Shopping Mall, at the airport, and in restaurants. I have never had a problem and never had anyone make a comment or look at me awkward. Now I try to act normal and walk slowly but I try to walk directly to a stall and close the door. I also monitor the common area until I feel it is "safe" to leave the stall. I make sure there are no children's voices and I try to time it so that nobody is leaving their stall at the same time I am. But I do tend to stop at the sink as I wash, just like any normal gg, and check my hair and make-up in the mirror quickly. But if I do see something that needs a touch-up I usually don't do it in the restroom but wait til I get back to the car. And when I am in Fem attire at any of these venues, I wouldn't even dream of going into the Men's room. Much higher risk of ending up with a broken face and a few broken ribs. But I know I do tend to blend a bit better with real girls as I am only 5'8" and 145 pounds. It may be a bit tougher if I was 6'2" and 240.

[MissTee]

In drab I find it completely safe to use deciduous shrubs. In femme, though, I always choose an evergreen lest I inadvertently out myself. :eek:

[Pat]

Perhaps your legislators could take a lesson from the old world - our public conveniences (restrooms) are covered by all the usual laws that govern behaviour (ie. assault, threatening behaviour, public order, etc.) so anyone misbehaving in that most private of public spaces is subject to the same penalties as anywhere else, regardless of sex, gender identity or dress.

Actually, that is exactly how it is in the US. All of the bad behavior that is illegal outside the restroom is illegal inside the restroom. And until it got turned into an issue quite recently it was always treated as a "better to ask forgiveness than permission" situation. We were such a small, invisible part of the population that nobody even thought about us. Now that we're gaining visibility and more people are coming out I suppose we reached a tipping point where now this issue has to get settled. We either need permission for the ladies room or protection in the men's room. The latter will never happen so we have to push for the former.

[Secret Drawer]

Here in Sweden, as it is a rather progressive place in general, more and more bathrooms are marked with the transgender symbol. If I had a clue how, I would post a picture, I took one the other day as I was proud of the progress!

[brandigirl]

Is this the symbol?

[Lorileah]

^^^ probably not since that isn't an internationally known symbol for a restroom

More like this256126 edit BTW OSHA requires access to restrooms for transpeople to match their gender identity

[AngelaYVR]

I think that engaging in the normal activities that women do at bathroom mirrors (hair, lipstick) can help put women at ease. But I will say that "passing privilege" plays an important roll although I suspect this is mostly self-policing as those who feel they don't pass well enough (meaning hitting a level that most people could agree that an accepted degree of femininity had been achieved, not 100% passing) probably don't go out so much.

[brandigirl]

Half of a dress, thats funny.

[CallmeAlice]

I usually travel GA, SC, NC.

Typically I don't use public bathrooms anyways. I've never really had the need to, but if that time did come I would, I pass really well. But I would recommend looking into the laws of the city you're going to. I see that you travel to NC, guessing Charlotte, I'm from the area. We just tried to have a law passed were we could but got heavy opposition and didn't get passed. But gender natural bathrooms are starting to get kinda popular here.

[Lauri K]

256143

Similar to Lorileah's post, you will definitely start to see more of these universal/ gender neutral bathroom signs. The San Diego airport is very LGBTQ friendly, that is where I saw this particular sign.

I am sure I will get yelled at for this statement, but if I am dressed up and I am in any way near or remotely close to passing I bypass the gender neutral facilities and use the ladies room.

Just saying, that is my preference, I prefer to be a lady among the ladies.

[Secret Drawer]

Yup. Brandigirl, that is the symbol now on more and more Swedish restrooms.

[Sometimes Steffi]

There's a proposed Virginia transgender bathroom (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/virginia-bathroom-law_5695e5f8e4b09dbb4bad46b7) law that is coming up for a vote in this session of the General Assembly.

I have a mind to go down to the Virginia state capitol and protest the law. I'm like to recruit a bunch of TG girls and line up in front of the men's bathroom in the capitol building and see how the legislators like a bunch of "ladies" using their restroom. That would be orth getting arrested for.

[Alison Lewis]

Once when I attempted to use the ladies room at a hotel in San Francisco of all places, a security guard stopped me and asked what I had down there. She said they received a complaint recently about a cd using the ladies room, so she'd have to ask the head of security if I could use it. I took down her name and left. When I called the manager the next day, he apologized and stated the security guard was wrong and he and the head of security would talk to her.