How did CDer connect prior to the Internet

[Rosemary+]

Hello ladies
My first post in the main section, please forgive me if the question has been asked before.
As I'm still deeply in the closet .
1.how did CDers connect and make friendships prior to the Internet?
2. How did you find support networks?

Thanks you
Rosie

[kelliT]

I was in my twenties, worked up enough nerve to go to a meeting for crossdressers. I remember having a nice place to dress there, very little about what we talked about. From there, I met others which prompted me to go out to dinner and clubs with the group. Haven't been in a group environment in 20 years. Just me exploring with myself.

[GeorgeA]

My answer to both questions is: "did not".

Welcome to the forum, Rosemary+

[lisalove]

The only time I met another crossdresser prior to the internet was when a great CD put an ad in the local paper.
It was in the 80's. and I was trying to understand myself. I've never questioned why I was the way I was, I just wanted to understand it.
Anyways, I was browsing the want ads in the paper, and I read an ad from a CD, so I answered it. I told her exactly what I wanted. At that time I had no idea there were other intensions for why anyone would put an ad in the paper. Call it niativity if you want.
She did reply to my reply, and we set up a meet. She was quite a bit older than me I was only in my teens at the time. My guess she was in her 30's or older.

We talked for hours and I think I learned quite a bit about myself and why I was the way I was and still am.
It never went any more from just a great friendship. we went out on the town, she showed me the hot spots (safe). she showed me how to do make up and hair, mannerisums etc.
Besides all the gurl stuff, she had other interests, that I was also interested in.
That turned out far better than any on line meets that I've ever had to this day.

[Laurana]

The same way everything else was done before the internet. Word of mouth and actually interacting with peope face to face.

[Julogden]

My first contact with others was as pen pals in the mid-1970's. There were magazines published by a CD named Cathy Slavik from Seattle that had personal ads from people all over the country and other countries, and back then, snail mail was the only option for contact. She published a few different magazines back then.

There was also Tri Ess, a support group for straight CD's, and they published magazines too as well as holding meetings. I didn't attend a Tri Ess meeting until 1985, and I made quite a few friends there.

[Rosemary+]

Thanks for the answers
Ahh the old days where people had to actually get out of the house and interact!
It could be done you just had to be proactive and find others.
Rosie

Ps. Thanks for the welcome Salerba

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Rosemary:hugs:, Before the internet and CD forms I was as lonely as the MAYTAG REPAIREMAN
.
The only thing that I had was the few books at the library and the XXX ADULT book stores. ~~...:daydreaming:...

[Adriana Moretti]

wait.....there was a time BEFORE the internet ????? .....kidding xoxo

[Vickie_CDTV]

Primarily they corresponded via the various magazines for dressers at the time, Transvestia, The Transvestite (Cathy Slavik's), Tri-Ess Femme Mirror, Tapestry, LadyLike, and many many others.

Some orgs also did outreach on TV back in the 1970s and 80s (Tri-Ess, IFGE, FPE and others), and gave people an address to write to etc.

[Phoebe Reece]

Back in the early 1970's when I first started contacting other crossdressers, I found out about an organization known as FPE through a magazine article. FPE was Virginia Prince's organization, which years later merged with another organization to create Tri-Ess. I joined FPE sometime around 1974 and was sent a membership directory. The directory was really just a member's name, membership number, some minimal info about the member, and the city that person lived in. If you wanted to contact someone, you wrote a letter and put your letter in a stamped envelope with the membership number of the person you were trying to contact written in pencil on the front. You then put that envelope in another stamped envelope addressed to FPE and put it in the mail. If you were lucky, you would get a reply in between two and four weeks. Even though it was slow, I did develop a fair number of contacts, and was able to eventually meet many of them in person.

[CarlaWestin]

My only contact with another CD'er, pre internet, happened quite by chance. I was fully dressed very late one night after quietly sneaking out of the house for a moonlight stroll. Big boobs, tight dress, heels and wig I was in heaven. One of my games back then was to drive a mile or so away and lock the keys in the car. Then I would have to walk back home to get the key stashed outside of the house and walk back to get the car. All in full glorious CD dress. As I was walking down the sidewalk one night I saw what appeared to be a tall slender woman wearing a very wide brim hat and seemingly hobbled by her tight ankle length dress. It was another CD. S(he) had safety pinned her dress hobbling tight and could only take short steps in her high heels. I approached and let her see that I was playing dress up myself but, she was really frightened by my presence. So, I just told her to be safe and left her alone. I had a few other encounters but the internet really opened my eyes to a larger community than I had previously imagined.

Hmm? I haven't done that lock the keys in the car thing in a while. Maybe this weekend I could..........

[I Am Paula]

Every major city had a fetish weekly. In Toronto there was TAB magazine, in New York there was Screw, and miriad others. In the old days CD's really only wanted to communicate to hook up. It was all very hush hush.

[Allison_CD]

"in New York there was Screw" Ha I remember that I was in my 20's and a visitor to your fine city.
Screw opened my eyes (but not my legs) to endless possibilities.
Meetings often took place in and around Public Lavvys, I'm told.

[adrienner99]

There were crossdressing magazines back then, and "alternative" newspapers where people ran personal ads...snail male or phone was how you responded. It was long and tedious...photos were worse--before digital, you took your film to a drugstore or photo processor and waited a few days to get them back....all the time time wondering who was snickering at your image...

[michelleddg]

It was rough. I would comb the Readers Digest Guide to Periodical Literature. I would comb the card catalog at university. I found a small ad for Lee's Mardi Gras Boutique in Manhattan in the back of the local newspaper when I moved to New Jersey after finishing school. That really opened the flood gates. Hugs, Michelle

[VeronicaMoonlit]

There were books that mentioned the various support groups, and of course magazine articles which one could easily find the RGTPL. In the big cities, the support groups often advertised in the free weeklies. There was also TV, every once in a while you might see a Tri-Ess or Renaissance member on Phil Donahue or something.

There were also electronic networks before the Internet. I know there were CD's on the likes of Compuserve, the Source, and smaller BBS networks back in the 80's.

[CONSUELO]

In Berkeley in the 70's there was the good old Berkeley Barb with lots of classified ads. Most had a phone number and you could call and arrange to get together. Also there were many magazines devoted to cross dressing and those could be bought in adult bookstores which were packed with TV mags as well as gay and hetero stuff. Basically you had to get out of the house. In the late 60's and early 70's many cross dressers were able to ride the coat tails of the burgeoning gay movement and attend clubs or bath houses to meet others. It was a risky world and you had to be very careful.

We are so lucky to have the internet as it has opened up the cross dressing world and there is a lot of information out there. Good information about cross dressing etc. was much harder to find back in the Dark Ages.

[Rosemary+]

Thanks Ladies
The pre internet pioneers were very brave ladies indeed, paving the way for us to follow
Rosie

[Stephanie47]

The Internet has been a Godsend. As a youth growing up in the 1960's I was full of misconceptions. The prevailing point of view of cross dressers was 100% were gay, although the word gay was still associated with being happy. Homosexuals were known as "faggots, queers" and other not so pretty terms. Everyone hid. That was also male and female homosexuals. I really would not have a clue how anyone met anyone. I'm sure there were underground clubs and chance meetings. However, if you were a teenager you just hid. And with hidding, came confusion. The only information available about sexuality was the Kinsey Report and that was held behind the librarian's desk. How would a teen ever ask to see it, and, since I worked at a public library, the librarian would never give it to a teen.

There were support groups in the early 1980's but they were hard to find. I really cannot remember how I found the telephone number for one in Seattle, but, I did and I called one evening. It was not a pleasant experience. The person answering was not at all welcoming and terse and actually turned me off of trying to get out of the house. My wife gave me the OK to join a support group. Actually, she recommended I go it. I did not ask. So I missed the opportunity to meet others.

The computer has been a blessing. Any youth can now go on line and find a site such as this site. However, in as much as the computer is a blessing, it can also be a curse. Just scroll through cross dressing subjects and there is much that will turn off a wife or girlfriend and maybe even further confuse a young cross dresser.

I guess the short answer to your question is for the most part we suffered in silence.

[Lorileah]

256161You went down a flight of stairs to a red door. You had to knock 3 times, then two more and a guy opened the little panel. You then said "Joyce sent me" and the door opened to a large room where people were dressed in all sorts of feminine clothing drinking champagne.

Honestly, you didn't meet many CDs then because you were the only one. Drag bars were common. Shops specializing in clothing were another source. But understand that prior to the 1980's "we" were breaking decency laws and were considered mentally unstable and if you met someone, they could very well be undercover cops. There were a lot less of "us" then because like today the majority never leave the house.

[Rachel32533]

It was different than today for sure!!! I would dress up and drive around until I got the nerve to walk in a gay bar alone!! Sometimes there were other gurls and you would have a great time, but sometimes you would have to get out of the place quick.Today things are much better, thank goodness..

[Susan Smith]

Before the internet I thought it was only me who liked to crossdress! Guess I know different now.

[susie evans]

I met Virginia Prince in 1975 at a collage lecture in CA and the rest is history

Susie

[Sometimes Steffi]

My answer to both questions is: "did not".


Absolutely. We did not.



Before the internet I thought it was only me who liked to crossdress! Guess I know different now.


Same thought here. But I did see a guy dressed as girl at a costume party my first Halloween in college.

About 10 year later, my wife and I went down to Castro Street in San Francisco and we saw a lot of guys dressed as girls. I just thought that they were gay, because crossdresser wasn't even in my vocabulary at that time.

I went to the "Girdles and More" 2004 conference in Boston, and that's when I saw my first real crossdresser. She almost passed. She was the first guy dressed as a girl who was not doing it as some kind of joke like Bob Hope. I also saw my first underdresser there, and even underdressed myself.

[Robinadress]

For the first 20 years of my life the internet didn’t exist. I remember very well the few times I found an article in a magazine or in the newspaper. Especially I remember when I was 14 years old I read an article in the newspaper about two transvestites going out together in my own town. I was so fascinated and glad I found something I could relate to. They were both married with kids. At the same time it was scary. I was scared that maybe one day I would go out in public just like them and risking being caught by someone who knew me. In the article they informed about the local support group, FPE. I tried all I could to forget the name of the group so I wouldn’t contact them. Of course it was impossible to forget. I remember several times the next years I traveled to my library to read the article again. Hmmm, I really feel old when writing this.

6 years later I picked up the phone and made the call. One week later I attended their meeting. I was probably too young, and I didn’t feel the need to go back there. The people I met was very nice too me, but I kept on further on my own. These were the days I bought my first pc and a hole new time for getting information and meeting other was starting.

[Trish]

In the early 1970's, when I first started dressing, I thought I was the only male that dressed, for many years.
I know differently know.

[Leighcdmd]

Before the Internet, for many of us, it was a frustrating, time consuming and tedious process. The principal vehicle consisted of classified ads in the few, hard to find CD magazines or in the alternative papers - The Phoenix (Boston) or The City Paper (Washington). One would either place or respond to an ad via snail mail and hopefully get a response. This meant, for many of us, getting a private mail box and checking it regularly. The process took weeks. Then came the Internet and a whole new world opened for all of us. Thank you Vint Cerf, DARPA.....oh....and you too Al Gore.

[heatherdress]

There were pioneers who worked to establish credibility, acceptance, support and ways to enable crossdressers to meet, learn and stay connected. JoAnn Roberts who recently passed away is a terrific example. She published a magazine and created crossdressing events, one of which is still very active annually in Delaware. I fortunately met JoAnn before she passed away and she was a beautiful, intelligent visionary and spokesperson.

There is a history on her website: http://www.cdspub.com/jar.html.

There is also another good history about crossdressers' socialization efforts over the past 50 years in her obituary: http://www.tgforum.com/wordpress/index.php/tgf-founder-joann-roberts-has-passed-away/

RIP JoAnn and thank you to pioneers who established events and published magazines and newsletters.

[Rosemary+]

Thanks Ladies for all the responses , I never thought I'd get tha many replies!
Heather, thanks for the link a little bit of history
Rosie

[sometimes_miss]

There were support groups out there, just not a lot of them. You'd have to go to a major city, and, there was usually just one even there. The only reason I knew about other men who crossdressed was from the Kinsey report. That was all I found for years. No one else was discussing us, as it was just assumed by all that we were gay or transsexual. There were also clubs that catered to fetishists and alternative lifestyles, dom/sub couples, etc., where we could go and be generally accepted (although there were always a few who thought their own kink was perfectly normal, but everyone else was weird). But again, you wouldn't usually find these clubs outside the larger cities. A single male going to those clubs had about a zero chance of finding a single woman there, at least that was my experience.

[Sarah Beth]

Before the internet I just didn't I had an idea there must be others out there like but I doubted there were very many. Since the internet if you are talking in person I have only met one. It doesn't seem to make any difference what my desires are in that area there just don't seem to be any close enough or any close by with any interest in meeting

[CarolBrown]

I didn't, nor had the clue how too...

Ironically, I have came out as a cross dresser too... A few of my close friends knew and they held my secret, but, that's effectively a lifetime ago, whereby I have moved to different areas and no longer know where they live or even if they are still alive... So safe to say I am in the closet and now reluctant to come out... I just dressed then (as I do now) firmly behind closed and locked doors, when I know that I will not be caught...

Similarly the Internet wasn't about, and even when it first did come around the likes of compuserve and the original AOL where incredibly slow and still didn't have the CD forums... As far as I was concerned, I was just the 'kinky' bloke down the street who enjoyed wearing his sisters clothing...

[LydiaL]

Never met another crossdresser before the internet.

And even today, away from the larger cities, it is hard to meet others.

[SHY KIM]

Phil Donahue the daytime talk show out of Chicago was very helpful in reaffirming I wasn't "the only one out there"
Penthouse letters (sorry) at least also brought it to my attention that I wasn't the "only girl out there"

[jaquie]

The Village Voice carried ads for crossdressing parties usually held at NYC and Long Island bars. The scene was hopping in NY in the 80's and 90's. It was actually far better than it is today.

[Ceera]

In the 1960's, you could find ads in popular magazines, and even in children's comic books, for a place called "Michael Salem's TV Boutique". As a child I wondered for a while what the connection was between women's shoes or clothes and television... :D Later I put it together that in that context, TV meant 'transvestite', and not 'Television'.

There were other ads in magazines in those days for clothes for cross dressers, or for other kinky things, but that was the really big source, other than Fredrick's of Hollywood.

[Kellitgdet]

I live in metro Detroit and I used the Metro Times weekly papers classifieds to meet and find out about activities in Detroit. The first Cross Dressing shop I went to was Lavender and Lace. I'll always remember going there and being fitted with a corset, it was wonderful being treated like a lady by the sales assistant. They use to have monthly meeting for cross dressers. I had my first makeup makeover there. I miss that shop.
Janet's Closet is a great shop in Detroit for everything breast forms, wigs, makeup, heels .... fantastic staff.

[flatlander_48]

R+:

I have to admit that everytime I see your original post it reminds me of a question from my kids back in the day: "Daddy, what did you do before television?".



You went down a flight of stairs to a red door. You had to knock 3 times, then two more and a guy opened the little panel. You then said "Joyce sent me" and the door opened to a large room where people were dressed in all sorts of feminine clothing drinking champagne.

I think Friend of Dorothy would probably have also worked...


The Village Voice carried ads for crossdressing parties usually held at NYC and Long Island bars. The scene was hopping in NY in the 80's and 90's. It was actually far better than it is today.

As I understand it, there are noticeably fewer gay venues than there used to be. It seems that as more folks have gone mainstream, there is less need for gay specific bars and clubs. I wonder if what you said about how the 80's/90's compares with now mirrors the LGB scene?

DeeAnn

[Stephanie Julianna]

You went out into the real world. I found out where gurls like us met from ads in Drag Magazine and others. There were many clubs, bars and even restaurants in NYC that catered to us and that's where you made friends who then told you about venues in other towns and states. In many ways it was safer than the internet. You can tell more about a person's sincerity when you are speaking to them face to face.

[Leslie Langford]

I became aware of the existence of other crossdressers (or "transvestites" as we were called back in the day) through notices in the back of tabloids such as "Midnight" and the "National Enquirer", which sometimes also featured ads - often with head-shots - of otherwise clandestine drag bars and their featured performers.

Back in 1965 when I was a teenager and still living in Montreal, I had a summer factory job in the French-speaking part of town. One day, while on my lunch break and in a nearby convenience store to buy a snack, I accidentally noticed a Ballantine Books paperback entitled "Sex Life of a Transvestite" mixed in amongst all of the other predominately French-language books in that rack. I mean - really???...what were the odds? A touch of karma, perhaps?

Needless to say, I immediately scooped that book up, bought it, and eagerly read it from cover to cover at my first opportunity. I was still new to this whole CDing thing at the time and desperate to try to figure myself out. Although the book was a bit on the prurient side and focused more on the fetishistic aspects of crossdressing (as was the conventional wisdom in those days), it did open my eyes up to a world out there that still lived in the shadows, and which I wasn't yet familiar with. It also described in detail feelings which the protagonist had which I could readily identify with.

For the first time, I understood fully that I was not the only one like this out there.

[Rosemary+]

Thanks again ladies,
The response to my first ever post is phenomenal!
You all sure do know how to make a lady feel at home
Rosie

[Maria Strange]

Even though the Internet was widely available in 2003 when I moved in to my flat I had rarely had the time or inclination to search for cd sites. My mum had just died after a long battle with cancer and now for the first time I was alone in my own flat to do what I want. I began to get to know the neighbours. Then one day a neighbour told me that he had an alter ego called Marion and that I might see her from time to time. This threw me at first no one had openly told me before. As he walked away I took a deep breath and told him I dress too. He had been dressing for years well before the Internet. He knew people and places and venues to cross dress and so I progressed from there with little or no help from the Internet

[MichelleDevon]

Welcome to the forums Rosemary - I'm not exactly an "old hand" here - clocked my 100th posting earlier this month but the internet does enable one to find like-minded people to talk to.

Before the internet...???

The answer to both is "I didn't"

Before the internet I thought it was just me, I genuinely had no idea that this was something with such a worldwide appeal. As a measure of my naivety I came across a forum at a stockings website which was entitled "CD/TV Issues" - as I have recalled elsewhere I couldn't for the life of me understand what stockings had to do with compact discs and television!!!!! The rest, as they say, is history.

All of my "girl" friends postdate my discoveries via the web - and not a few GG friends too ;)

BBC radio 4 though gave me a link to a support group - a short comedy series about a crossdresser which was followed up with a reference to the Beaumont Society which I subsequently checked out and joined.

Michelle
xxx

[Allison2006]

Penthouse letters (sorry) at least also brought it to my attention that I wasn't the "only girl out there"
I had started wearing pantyhose when in my early teens and added a pair of my sister's heels a couple of years later. But I really got into crossdressing after reading stories in this magazine.

I remember seeing an ad in Area Shopper before the internet age, from Erie Sisters support group. I can recall on more than one occasion seeing Ann Landers and Dear Abby answering question from crossdressers about where to find support groups. And I once posted an ad in a local newspapers personals section that had quite a few crossdressers looking to meet others. I had one CD'er contact me but lost my nerve and never did meet her.That happened just before I got a computer and internet access

[Vickie_CDTV]

In the 1960's, you could find ads in popular magazines, and even in children's comic books, for a place called "Michael Salem's TV Boutique". As a child I wondered for a while what the connection was between women's shoes or clothes and television... :D Later I put it together that in that context, TV meant 'transvestite', and not 'Television'.


Interesting, I never knew Michael Salem advertised in "mainstream" publications (I saw their ads in old more racy magazines), much less comic books. Do you remember which comic books they appeared in? I'd love to look that up.

[Rosemary+]

I can remember the Michael Salem adverts. Did anyone ever contact or use their products?

[threeheavenshigh]

The answer to both is "I didn't"

Before the internet I thought it was just me, I genuinely had no idea that this was something with such a worldwide appeal. As a measure of my naivety I came across a forum at a stockings website which was entitled "CD/TV Issues" - as I have recalled elsewhere I couldn't for the life of me understand what stockings had to do with compact discs and television!!!!! The rest, as they say, is history.

I think of my generation as exactly 3 years right behind the tech boom. Internet started showing up everywhere right after I graduated high school.

The effect of tech on LGBT rights cannot be understated. A good chunk of people suddenly started realizing what they might be. Not only were the ideas out there, there were pictures, people clarifying what a huge variety of orientations actually existed (not just gay or "normal"), dogmas were questioned, etc.

The idea that I could be a crossdresser was inconceivable, even though I had being guiltily indulging in it since age 10. I wasn't attracted to men, after all. Plus if I was a crossdresser, OMG I might be on the path to becoming sex criminal. Or get AIDS from masturbating.

Seriously, living before and after internet is a trip.

[flatlander_48]

The effect of tech on LGBT rights cannot be understated. A good chunk of people suddenly started realizing what they might be. Not only were the ideas out there, there were pictures, people clarifying what a huge variety of orientations actually existed (not just gay or "normal"), dogmas were questioned, etc.

The other thing that happened was that positive images of LGBT people began to circulate in the media. Images that portrayed regular folks doing regular things: going to the grocery store, doing their jobs, doing charitable works (both inside and outside of the community), being parents, etc.; all things that worked to humanize a group that most people were unfamiliar with.

DeeAnn

[Sometimes Steffi]

Penthouse letters (sorry) at least also brought it to my attention that I wasn't the "only girl out there"


I had seen a number of "letters" in Penthouse Forum, but I always thought that they were works of fiction written by staff writers.

[Tara Rushing]

. Thank you Vint Cerf, DARPA.....oh....and you too Al Gore.

Now that is funny, I don't care who you are!!

As to the question, I didn't. I felt alone and different and 'weird'. Even after Al invented the internet, I saw lots of girls on flickr, ect... but it was discovering this site about a year ago and reading and finally joining that finally made me feel not so 'weird'. I still question why I do it, but I don't feel alone anymore. I have, even to this date, NEVER met another CD (that I know about their dressing, of course). Hopefully this site or some turn of fate will open a door where I can meet another CD and just go shopping or have a cup of coffee or beer or wine (girls prefer wine, no?)....

[Sky]

I'm an Argie so my earlier experiences happened there.

In the late 70s there were magazines, you would check where a party was advertised, if there was a phone to call in advance great, if not you would go there, sometimes the party was what they advertised, sometimes not so you turned back. Being seen out there in drag was frowned upon but I never had a serious scare, just the occasional wolf whistle and off color yelled joke. Riding a cab was a hit or miss thing -some cabbies would ignore you, but driving by slow enough to make it clear they saw you but would not give a fag like you a ride. Some would take you, then stare at you through the rear mirror all through the ride. Some asked for special favors. And then again a few were just nice.

Then in the 80s things pretty much exploded. There were parties everywhere and cding was at least tolerated when not openly welcome. It did not last forever, the late 80s brought a little more restraint. But 83, 84 sure were fun as hell. And I was young so what more can you ask for?

Upon moving to the US I was kind of surprised as to how closeted a large part of the community is. Don't take it as criticism, it's just a comment. My kinda-sorta-objective view from a foreign place is, there's no reason to be so scared. Yes there are plenty of conservative church-fearing small towns here, but for the most part they are not as scary as they might seem at first glance.