Members to Guests Ratio

[Lauri K]

I wanted to make a comment on another thread but did not want to get yelled at or distract from the OP.

So I decided I would ask the question, so if this has been already addressed previously close the thread and redirect me.

I have studied the member to guests ratio here for sometime and the numbers are really running in the 3 to 1 ++ range daily or sometimes even north of 4 to 1

Are members viewing that are not logged in ? Maybe, but not realistically doing so consistently

Guests who are in the closet but afraid to join ? Does that explain the ratio ?

If the numbers of us CD's in the population are ever going to be estimated, do I have to factor the data of this site into the equation to come up with a realistic number ?

Are we really underestimating the cross-dressers out there by this much margin ?

If so are there 3 to 4 times more of us out there than we think ?

Any insight to this is much appreciated, but consistently I am seeing numbers that are out of whack. (guests are running 3 to 4 times more prevalent than members)

[Jenniferathome]

Just lurkers. Weren't we all at some point?

[nikkiwindsor]

Honestly, I have no clue what's going on

[EllieMayxxx]

I've noticed this too and like Nikki said I have no clue what's going on.

[Judy-Somthing]

I've been afraid to join any site but like some of you I felt a need to get out into the world, especially someplace where I won't be laughed at.

Your not laughing, right? It's kind of funny that dad's wearing a wedding dress. I guess some people wouldn't say funny!

I always wonder when I see a man or some woman looking at dresses, are they a fellow Cross-dressers? it would be cool to know.

In the Guy community they have earring on on one side or a rainbow sticker on their car. Is there a symbol to indicate Cross-dress?

[Pat]

Not to get to pedantic, but just so I understand your point, you say the members to guests ratio is 3:1 and sometimes 4:1 which would imply 3-4 members per guest. Since that doesn't seem like something to be problematic, did you mean guests to members (i.e. 3 guests visiting for each 1 member)?

Either way, I don't really see the problem. This site isn't about gathering statistics on CDs, it's about support, discussion, information sharing, etc.

[Nadine Robles]

Lots of curious people and (admins pay attention) beware of Bots!!! they are always lurking around and could cause the site to go down if not kept away...
I believe some "benign" bots from search engines are almost all the time. Could that be it?


Is there a symbol to indicate Cross-dress?

As a matter of fact there is! just Google it (I don´t know how to embed images here sorry... :( )

[Lauri K]

Jennie

Not trying to gather statics, just stating the fact that guests here are seemingly way more prevalent than members by a factor of 3 to 4 consistently.

It is not a problem, I don't care if the ratio gets to be 50 guests per member, I encourage all whether you are a guest or a member

Consistent ratio of numbers are something you have to factor in when making estimates, and that was my real point

[ReineD]

I suspect a fair chunk of the "guests" are web crawlers, bots, spiders, etc, for the purpose of indexing. There must also be proxy servers for people who come here anonymously. And then there are members who read the open CD & TS forums without bothering to log in, if they aren't planning on posting, or who keep the site open on their devices after logging off. I've done that a few times, and my device would register as a guest accessing the index page or the last thread I had looked at.

There must also be a few real guest CDs/family members having a look or Admirers on the prowl? :p

[donnaS]

Honestly I do a quick check of what's going on and forget to sign in.

[Eryn]

That ratio isn't all that high. I just popped over to an automotive forum and it said:

In total there are 889 users online :: 171 Registered, 17 Hidden and 701 Guests

That's 3.7:1

[ChristinaK]

Most of the time I don't log in, unless I have something to contribute. It's just easier and quicker.

[Tracii G]

Bots, web crawlers and spiders LOL
I have no idea what the heck that means in IT language.

[jenniferinsf]

it doesn't bother me and i stay logged in all the time

[Lisa85]

Heck, a lot of it is simple. To stay logged in is a security risk. To have a simple password is a security risk. A secure password is easy to mistype. Combine that with this site policy of leaving comments forever and not archiving after 24 or 30 months is a pain. Only log in when have something that may help. Too often forum members have negative phrases for people who read regularly but don't post. It's all part of the understanding: as we say to dogs: leave it.

[Sandie70]

I think the underlying reason for the question might be something I believe we all are curious about at times... how many of us are out there?

Many of us engage in crossdressing secretly - or at least, when out and about, avoid running into friends or others who know us in our normal, daily life. In other words, it can get lonely. Thus, we long to know if we are only few in number... or one of many. We seek validation of sorts.

Unfortunately, trying to answer this kind of question by analyzing stats from a single website is probably futile.

[Robin414]

Reine nailed it, on all points speaking from a CISP perspective.

[Kevyn53]

My wife is concerned sometimes that the "guests" are people who troll looking to out us, not unlike that screw around on your spouse website that got hacked last year. I live in a really small town and there was one person in our zip code (the whole town) who was registered on that site.

[Tracii G]

There are risks with just about anything and it all boils down to are you willing to take the risk online here.

[Shayna]

During the day I'll check out whats being posted using my phone without logging in

[docrobbysherry]

What about guestimates that there may be 3 times as many dressers hiding in the closet as those that come out online, etc?:brolleyes:

[Samantha2015]

I'll admit I was a lurker for a while. Was too scared to join. But glad I finally did join.
Not all the guests have bad intentions but I'm sure there are some that are creeps.

[Stephanie47]

There are probably many lurkers who are cross dressers, but, paranoid of being discovered or outed if registered. I'm sure there are some giggling kids who also visit. For several years I was a lurker. I wouldn't say I needed courage to register. I was becoming more willing to add my experiences. I sign on all the time because I have the privacy and the time to read all the sections. I've noticed many sections have little activity over several days. I think if someone who knows me actually took the time to read all my posts over the years, there is sufficient information there to identify me. I have not posted pictures because I do not have the expertise or equipment. I'm sure some of those who have posted pictures can be readily identified by a lurker or participant who is not a cross dresser. I think this site also offers a person attempting to do some research into what drives us and our rather mundane lives.

[Katey888]

Lurkers will make up a fair chunk, so will automated data grabbers, bots - and I'll sometimes check this forum without logging in as other members do... And 'admirers' looking for a quickie :eek: but not having been to this site before don't realise how superior and proper we are compared to most other CD sites... :devil:

So... about 25% for each of those categories explains it. :)


What about guestimates that there may be 3 times as many dressers hiding in the closet as those that come out online, etc?:brolleyes:

Yeah - that works... 28,900 members total so 100k CDs - give or take - in the entire English speaking world... ;)

I'd call that a low estimate, even for me...

Don't let it worry you Lauri - the number of active members is even smaller... those of us prepared to think, post and discuss it are a rare breed indeed... and actually, some folks don't even do all three.. :lol:

Katey x

[Beverley Sims]

With the movie Danish Girl, how many more will shed the cloak of secrecy?

[Kate Simmons]

Haven't seen this post in awhile. :battingeyelashes::)

[heatherdress]

All good comments to explain why there are typically many more guests than members on web sites. I don't expect that member-guest ratio to change, for reasons already suggested.

Just a thought: '

Should we really expect that some great wave of acceptance will sweep over society and crossdressers and potential crossdressers everywhere, will jump out of the shadows and openly admit they crossdress? And even if it became acceptable and commonplace to crossdress openly, wouldn't most crosssdressers still chose to remain private?

I think so - because of self-image, relationships, children, family, friendships, work, reputation. And maybe it is more exciting to be secret.

I believe crossdressing is, for many of us, something very private and intimate. It may become much less stressful to dress as a female in public, but would we still want to tell our children or our bosses we like to wear panties, heels and makeup? We can't understand ourselves why we crossdress, so would we want to explain to loved ones why we do? I am all for the greater acceptance in society dream, and the ability to dress in public without feeling uncomfortable, but I still think most crossdressers will remain anonymous, and probably not share identities and pictures on sites like ours. I hope I am wrong but I think crossdressing will remain primarily private. And that's probably OK.

[Acastina]

Spiders and crawlers and bots, oh my!

[JamieG]

Regarding estimating numbers: keep in mind there are tons of crossdressers who are not members of this site. Consider the Keystone conference: last year they had ~500 attendees, but only ~30 of our members went. Many people are on different forums, use meetup.com to connect, just have a Flickr site, or simply don't rely on an online presence. You would have to draw from multiple sources and account somehow for people with multiple online presences in order to get a sense of how many crossdressers are online. Estimating the anonymous portion would be even harder.

[Rosemary+]

I think the majority are lurkers,
It took me years to get the courage to join up!

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Lauri:hugs:, What amazes me is that every evening as I go through the Birthday calendar on the banner
out of the thirty or so members having a birthday that day probably three or four are still active members.

I was a lurker for three years before I had the courage to sign up, I'm so happy that I did.

Only when the government makes all Crossdressers register will we really know the exact numbers
of us are out there. ~~...:daydreaming:...

[Lauri K]

Only when the government makes all Crossdressers register will we really know the exact numbers
of us are out there. ~~...:daydreaming:...

I hear you, and truly I done a poor job of writing the intent of my observation regarding members / to guests.

Everyone here has made some great points, I never thought much about the bot's, crawlers and spiders. (But I wonder if anyone in the closet has been bitten by one)

I suppose everyone has determined their own pace at deciding whether to join, post a photo, post a thread, lurk etc. I am fine with that.

Makes me wonder now if the electronic US Trans survey results are going to be skewed, will be interesting to see how that turns out.

I think that many here fall into so many different places across the spectrum, so much so that you can never draw to any consensus regardless. I love to see all the participation, but often times I am somewhat suprised to see a lack of continuity across the members here on some of the serious issues we face. But we are all unique individuals, and I respect that.

Thanks again for your comments.

[Pat]

Makes me wonder now if the electronic US Trans survey results are going to be skewed, will be interesting to see how that turns out.

In fact, they won't be able to say much about population. After all, people responding to the trans survey are probably trans.

To get population numbers you need a general survey that covers everyone. Gallup has a daily poll that includes a question that's roughly, "do you consider yourself a member of the LGBT community?" They've been asking every day for years and have a reasonably stable number of people who say yes -- around 3.5%. That's probably a good number -- at least it's been durable. It's not an exact count -- some people will lie, some people won't answer, for some the answer might change, etc. But if you're looking at the size of the US LGBT community it's pretty good. It would be great if they'd start asking "do you consider yourself transgender?" but even on this forum we have crossdressers saying they're not transgender, so it would probably take a couple of years and a lot of education on terminology for the number to stabilize.

[Teresa]

Lauri,
Unlike others I always log on , I was never a lurker, I just joined what I thought was the best site that appeared to help CDers in an honest way.

I would say that is part of the reason for the figures, it is a well structured and controlled site, people will possibly only come here to to try to understand their CDing problems, if they are looking for hook ups or sexually explicit content they will go elsewhere and there are plenty of those to choose from.

Tracii, brings up the point about taking care what you say on the open MTF section , I did see a recent thread but failed to read it asking if the forum had outed you, I must check it out.

[Beverley Sims]

Haven't seen this post in awhile. :battingeyelashes::)

Hullo Kate,
What are you wearing today.? :-)

[CallmeAlice]

I can't really explain all of the guest and why there are so many.

But for awhile I would use this site before I turned 18, not to post but just to look around and stuff. I'm not the only one that I know that I have done this, I have three other trans friends of mine and would do the same. One of them did get around to making an account but doesn't post much.

At the local youth lgbt center awhile back we talked about younger people (under the age of 18) using this site. We get why the age to join is 18 and completely get that reason, but by doing this you also cutting off a growing group of kinds and young adults from joining this site and interacting with others just like them. We came up with the idea of what if they lower the ago to 15-16 y/o but limit what they can do. Like to where no one, not even them, but mods can access the profile pages. Also not letting any personal info about them to be shown (Birthday, age and location). Prohibit them from receiving or sending pm unless it's to a mod. Also limiting their post, not actually posting it until it is reviewed and it doesn't give away any personal info or in dangering to them. But this take time that some of us just don't have. While there are other site like this for teens and young adults this is the first site to come up on google when you type in "crossdressing" or "crossdresser."

Other reason might be that people who do crossdress but don't want to be associated with us or just looking for tips might use this website for some extra info on how to do things. They probably just get on and find what they are looking for and some more then get of and come back for more or to reread, that's how I started off really.

Or it could be SO, friends or just random just looking up crossdressing.

None of these can fully explain why there are so many guest but I feel like that most of them are for those reasons.

[VeronicaMoonlit]

I suspect a fair chunk of the "guests" are web crawlers, bots, spiders, etc, for the purpose of indexing.

If it was a half dozen or so, I'd agree with you, but HUNDREDS? The Other Place (meaning mHB) always has more members logged than guests.


And then there are members who read the open CD & TS forums without bothering to log in, if they aren't planning on posting, or who keep the site open on their devices after logging off.

People log out of crossdressers.com? I stay logged in, and close tabs when I'm done with a site, saves the trouble of constantly re-logging in. Of course, no one uses my computer but me.


There must also be a few real guest CDs/family members having a look or Admirers on the prowl? :p

I figure it's family who don't want to start an account, a ton of admirers on the prowl, and a bunch of "dark matter" CD's afraid to join.

I define "Dark Matter" CD's as those who tend to be:


strongly male identified
tend to be totally closeted
don't go out in public and usually have no interest in it
don't join support groups
are more likely to be "less complete" dressers
don't particularly identify with women and certainly not to the extend "social crossdressers" do.
are more likely to consider their crossdressing a fetish than a manifestion of gender dysphoria


Such people might be less likely to join in a discussion forum (or RL support groups) that are dominated by "social crossdressers" who tend to be:


tend to be less closeted
much more likely to go out in public en femme
more likely to do a complete presentation en femme, including accessories, wigs, etc
more likely to identify their feelings as dysphoria
more likely to identify with women, and sometimes have close female friends that they do things with en-femme
more likely to join real life support groups, and when they do, far more likely to end up running them
more likely to join discussion forums, and when they do, tend to dominate the discourse because they post more, in part due to the dysphoria they feel
more likely to identify as middle-path
more likely to dabble in androgyny and incorporating some aspects of their "gender identity" in their day to day life.
somewhat more likely to do certain body mods, like growing their hair, electrolysis, laser and low dose HRT/anti-androgens
somewhat more likely to eventually identify as TS.

Veronica

[Eryn]

If it was a half dozen or so, I'd agree with you, but HUNDREDS? The Other Place (meaning mHB) always has more members logged than guests.

You mean My Husband Betty? I just looked and it said:
Currently Active Users: 10 (7 members and 3 guests)

Certainly you are correct, but the data set is tiny.

[Brandy Mathews]

I think that some of them are lurkers, but I truly believe that there are a lot more cross dressers out there that are not admitting it too. And I think that there are some there that are trying to out people too. Like I have said before, some people are more worried about what other people are doing then themselves. If people would just worry about themselves, this world would be such a better place to live.
Hugs,
Bree :)

[Emily W]

I was Guest once. I know I 'lurked' for on and off sometime (about a month) and even did some other research before deciding that it was a good site to join.

On of the best thing I did - very friendly and informative site. :)

[flatlander_48]

Just lurkers. Weren't we all at some point?

No, not really. Maybe a day, but that was it...

DeeAnn

[ReineD]

If it was a half dozen or so, I'd agree with you, but HUNDREDS? The Other Place (meaning mHB) always has more members logged than guests.

Web crawlers can be overactive on busy, changing sites. How busy is mHB? Read this:
http://www.blogtips.org/web-crawlers-love-the-good-but-kill-the-bad-and-the-ugly/

Also, I think A LOT of people here just keep the browser window open after they've logged off (see all the guests looking at the index page), or a lot of members read the public sections without logging in. A lot of people join here and end up posting very little, so why should they log in if they do not intend on posting.

I'm sure there are non-members reading the forum too, but I seriously doubt it's a 3:1 ratio to members.

[sometimes_miss]

Most of the time I don't log in, unless I have something to contribute. It's just easier and quicker.

^this. I don't sign in until I want to post something. So most of the time I'll be listed as guest when I'm reading a thread.

[Abbey11]

I agree with Jennifer, can take a bit of time to summon the courage to join in

Just lurkers. Weren't we all at some point?

[Karine]

Even if i joined in, i often visit the website without logging in. As a closet crossdresser, i have few experiences to share (no going out, not came out to my girlfirend,...). So i do not log in unless i want to participate to a thread. However, i like to read the threads and enjoy your adventures and experiences. Maybe, there are a lot of members like me.

[Tara Rushing]

I actually run a cattle breeding message board and have some insight to this. On my site visitors outnumber members by 15-20 to 1 on an average day. I am not surprised the ratio here is lower. As crossdressers we seem to yearn to be heard (and especially SEEN) so I am not at all surprised the participation rate is higher here. It is impossible to tell an exact ratio as many times a member visits a site and does not sign in.

[Beverley Sims]

Tara,
What is the ratio of cattle rustlers to breeders?

Yes there are plenty of lurkers on all sites, most of them looking for information to confirm their theories, on this site you would attract an undesirable element.

[Launa]

I was a lurker a few years ago. It lasted 4 hours before I asked to join. But I also came out of the closet 4 Halloween's ago and haven't looked back.

[Eryn]

I actually run a cattle breeding message board and have some insight to this. On my site visitors outnumber members by 15-20 to 1


Tara,
What is the ratio of cattle rustlers to breeders?

Naah, it's young bulls trying to access pictures of hot heifers! :)

I think that the traffic explanation seems most plausible. Bots want to index trafficed sites as often as possible to stay up to date.

[Crissy Kay]

As I recall, I lurked here about a month or two before I joined. Glad I did though, because I get good a good feeling from this site, or rather all the interesting and positive threads that I see here.

[CONSUELO]

I have noticed in recent weeks that rather than having around 100 people logged on to this site at any one time, there are around 150.

I wonder why we have a surge in "logging in". Is it due to heightened awareness of cross dressing and transgender issues?

Am I wrong? What have other members observed? By the way if the surge in interest is real I am very pleased.

[Alice Torn]

That could well be. I think some are admirers, as I have talked to many men, who are starved for love, and beauty, femininity, and there are so many here that model that.

[cdterri]

I also noticed that more people were viewing. I believe it's because of the nasty weather

[Adriana Moretti]

yes its seasonal....its JANUARY... the numbers are def up.... here & my blog is the exact same way, and January is the BIGGEST month. The increase starts around October ( halloween ) and builds till about Jan ( peak ) then drops off slowly till spring...then summer is mostly the hardcore girls ( ever see this place in JULY???)... it def has to do with the weather to some degree, and it is crossdressing season NOW LOL....the real question is how many gals who are here now, will STILL be here come June ? Alot will fade away, get bored, find the info they were looking for, or slip back into the closet till the urge kicks in again. Its the cycle of life in our world...xoxo

[ronni white]

If you notice that guests outnumber members 4 to 1 - pervs?

[Abbey11]

At the time of looking at this its 5 to 1

Adriana
I love your blog
Hugs
Abbey x

[Adriana Moretti]

If you notice that guests outnumber members 4 to 1 - pervs?

I am a geek when it comes to searches....google searches that is, you know finding keywords etc...like REALLY geeky...when you google certain keywords this site pops up as #1 or #2 so ANYONE googling those keywords are bound to stumble on this site, no matter WHAT you google crossdressing related, this site pops up cause its ALL covered here , they may not necessarily be all pervs, but other cd's looking for more info who stumbled on this site and decide to have a look see,those curious about the subject, etc how else did any of us find it right ??? I'm sure there are a few pervs though....but they have a high bounce rate ( fancy SEO geek word meaning they leave quick) cause this isnt what they are looking for. Hey pervs...looking for sexy cd's??? ...GO TO TUMBLR its loaded with gals who love taking provacative pictures of themselves !!

[Taylor186]

I'm logged in when using my desktop computer but I'm never logged in when using my tablet, and I check in using my tablet at least once a day.

I think on MHB you cannot see anything but forum titles without logging in.

[Heather J]

I'll admit I am a member but sometimes I'll cruise the site without signing on because i'm just to lazy to sign on :)

[Tara Rushing]

As a forum owner (not CD related) it is news to some people that the administrators (at least of my boards hosted by Proboards) have access to ISPs of all members/visitors. You can pinpoint an ISP to a very narrow geographic location. Nothing on the internet is totally private. Your ISP has records of all your browsing and can be compelled to give that up and it could also get hacked.

[Eryn]

There is also the matter of latency. Set a long latency for stats and the number of guests goes up. Members only count as one even if they log on multiple times and spend hours and hundreds of pageviews here. A guest with a fleeting 1-pageview visit still counts as a guest.

[ReineD]

As a forum owner (not CD related) it is news to some people that the administrators (at least of my boards hosted by Proboards) have access to ISPs of all members/visitors. You can pinpoint an ISP to a very narrow geographic location. Nothing on the internet is totally private. Your ISP has records of all your browsing and can be compelled to give that up and it could also get hacked.

Yes, this worked well with IPv4 when people were anchored to their desktops ... if they weren't using a proxy, which a lot of people use here for privacy reasons and also if the IPs were not crawlers. But now we have smartphones and tablets that use IPv6, which is more difficult to geolocate than IPv4 currently (my IPv6 address places me in NY while I'm three states to the west), not to mention the users are not necessarily using their home wifi while browsing. So geolocation for a guest IP address that might once have been tied to a member registration IP is useless.

Besides ... who wants to go through all that trouble and for what reason. The most popular section here is open to everyone, whether they're logged in or not. I never log in when I'm using my phone, unless I want to post and I'm not always on my home wifi. Sometimes I'm on a wifi thousands of miles away and sometimes I use cellular data. And when on my laptop I often forget to close thread browser windows after I log off so I register here as a guest a lot.

This is what I don't understand: why is there so much preoccupation over who is reading the forums, even if a big chunk do turn out to be members who are not logged in and crawlers. +?