Internal dysphoria

[mechamoose]

I'm as girl as a guy can get without being TGd or pre-op.

Not to be crude, but I keep finding that when I go to the bathroom, I keep looking for parts I don't have.

I.. don't quite know what to do with that energy. It needs to go somewhere.

Any advice would be appreciated.

<3

- MM

[JanePeterson]

I'm as girl as a guy can get without being TGd or pre-op.


I'm a bit confused what you mean by this.... how would you define transgender? Not trying to call you out or anything, but if you have discomfort with the "plumbing" and you are posting on the CD forum, maybe you would benefit from looking a bit harder into your feelings.

Often times, labels can frighten us from accepting how we truly feel, because labels come with potential consequences etc (If I'm TG or TS, then ill have to do x,y,z).
Figuring out your true feelings without worrying about the implications is REALLY hard, but once you know yourself you can then figure out what you want to do (if anything)

Cheers!

Jane

[mechamoose]

I'm about at 'middle-road' on the TG spectrum as you can get. I dress like a girl, and I'm 6'2", bearded and built like a truck.

I'm over 50, and this is kind of weird.. ignoring that fact that I have been weird since I was 25.

I just never felt this intent before. I am literally reaching for things I don't have. Like I'm in someone else's body who happens to be another gender and I just forgot who I was.

I have no problem with being confrontational (look up my posts), I'm just.. puzzled.

(I know this is wicked confusing. Please bear with me, I'm not trolling)

- MM

[Katey888]

I think I understand what you're saying MM, but that probably comes of reading the majority of your posts over the past couple years and gaining an insight... If I may, and please correct my interpretation, but for the benefit of the newbies, here's the way I see it...

Moose here is an archetypal bear of a man physically - we'd call Moose a 'bit of a bruiser' over here - but under that genuinely, grizzly looking exterior, there's almost certainly more girl than me lurking, if that's a definitive measure of anything (I must be a teeny bit girl, right...?) :)

MM's presentation is mixed/ androgyne but possibly approaching 'guy in a skirt' oft-times (no offense - I presuppose you prefer skirts to dresses from what I've read, but I could be wrong) but the passion there for many of the detail aspects that really shout 'femme', at least in our curious little community - like nails, both toes and fingers, and jewellery - is extremely robust and often quite public. MM occupies that in-between world where the physicality of a male is a significant perception barrier to expressing a very girly, girl side that exists within.

You can gather I say this remotely (having never met the aforementioned horned one) but with deep respect and affection... MM struggles with the difficulty of a community that accepts and promotes 'femulation' (for obvious reasons) but in turn struggles itself with mixed expression. I can understand why the perception would be difficult, but at the end of it all, if one is prepared to accept that transsexuals are a gender binary that has been polarised a full 180 degrees, and that CDs sit somewhere in the middle, it's not such a stretch that it's possible for some of those middle-grounders - even possibly close to TS folk - to validly express the feelings that MM expresses here...

It's not as common and it might be considered harder to grasp and an outlier to the norm, but I think we see a few folks around here that grapple with different aspects of the 'internal feminine' and a physical limitation of expression that's open to them. Feeling what they feel may not necessarily mean taking actual action towards anything, and that probably makes the frustration worse, but it doesn't invalidate it.

MM - I'm just chipping in as an observer here - I'm sure you'll correct or redirect my perception of what you mean as I sure can't and don't experience it myself, but I'm trying to git where you're goin' with that frustration... ;)

Katey x

[mechamoose]

Thank you Katey. I like/approve of your 'Cliff Notes' on Mooseism

'The horned one'... heh

... Nice Sig }:> (Obvious question.. unlike LAST time??)



<3

- MM

[Teresa]

MM,
I've read many of your posts and I think Katey does sum it up. !
Is it a rude question but would your confusion be helped by losing more of your male appearance , like the beard and maybe some weight and go more girly in your overall look , I know you mentioned a while ago about being accepted when you changed your job , would it be possible to go more on femme lines than you do now ! It does sound as if mind and body need to be closer together, you give off mixed messages to others perhaps your doing it to yourself.

[mechamoose]

I currently wear a 22 shirt and a 14 in pants. (I don't think in man-measurements anymore)

I'm not overweight. I'm 'fit' (whatever that means) I'm just 'big'. My last name even translates to 'large'. I look like a wedge.

I give off mixed messages on purpose. I *like* my girl side, and she deserves the space.

- MM

[Candice June Lee]

As i say this in the most respectful of ways. I too, have spent much of the last several months pondering and acting on the very conversation. Its a tough thing to float in the in between. Needing more than a pic in the mirror enfem, pink fog? Nope i dont feel that either. Im back to where i was prior ro my last purging cycle. The need to align the exterior with the interior has come to be. Only ive been making progress forward.
So i know how youve been feeling Madam Moose. I will state the same as Teresa, you may need to make a step or two in being more externally fem without being to much "in your face" about it. If you can inderstand where i am comeing from. That is something i have to do. I have also gone beyond that myself.

[mechamoose]

To contribute to your 'newbie' section of the thread. I have no interest in transitioning. "I yam wha' I am". I'm a bull moose who likes pretty things.I want to be myself in a skirt (Yes, I prefer skirts to dresses).

I just want to be me, and have hard time figuring out WHY it is so difficult for 'mundanes' to understand. We shouldn't have to be sorry for how we present of how we ARE, dammit.

The physical disassociation is new for me, though I have been 'wide thinking' all my life.

-MM

[Robin414]

I get it MM, I gravitate to places where I can be me, I guess I'm 'lucky' in that I can pull off a full on girl look but that said, I'm finding I prefer to present more like you do, in the middle. I think in the TS forum it's called 'being authentic'.

As always, I love Katey's reply as well! Admittedly I sometimes have the attention span of a house fly so I didn't read the entire....oh look, a rabbit running from a coyote, that's sooo cut....OMG 😨

[mechamoose]

Why do I need to be less 'In your face'? No disrespect, but I don't want to hide in any way, shape or form.

I couldn't pull off 'full on girl mode' if I had the whole staff of 'Project Runway' chipping in. So, yes, you are lucky that way.

I understand about..

oh look! Squirrels!

<Insert the dog from 'Up' here>

<3

- MM

[Robin414]

I don't think you need to be less at all MM, it's all about how much 'intolerance' YOU are willing to accept IMHO. For me, I admit, I'm kinda sensitive and I go out of my way to find accepting places cuz that's just me. OH sure, I WILL fight ya, but I really, really don't want to 😉

[mechamoose]

OH sure, I WILL fight ya, but I really, really don't want to ��

Same here. I have held hands man-man and walked around public spaces, in big cities (New England, eh, but that is where I live) I have had people call me names and threaten me. But because I'm a big bull moose, it was more bluster than not.

If someone has a problem with me, then THEY have a problem.. with ME.

Intolerance is kind of a trigger for me. I kind of chase it down when I see it and grab it by the scruff of the neck. I have had friends get beaten and worse by being like I am. Those droogs aren't going to get away with that if I have a say in the matter.

[Robin414]

That's why I'm a fan of MM, you're one of US but you can more than handle a hater, you might envy me cuz I look like a chic, but I envy you cuz you can truly own any situation! Be YOU MM, it's OK, really! ☺

[mechamoose]

Aside from my evangelism.. I really don't understand the bathroom thing. It really feels odd.

I'm used to being a 'guy', and then this shows up. <confused>

- MM

[Robin414]

Ahhh yes, the original point! I think it's. ..OMG, another rabbit, I'm gonna chase it this time!

[Jennifer-GWN]

MM ... Sounds like the voices are calling. Hey as for size... 14 bottom and ok started at 22 for tops now hovering between 16 and 18 and down considerable lbs. 2 years ago I'd give grizzly Adams a run for the best grizzly Adams lookalike.

[Pat]

Hi MM --

I can sympathize. I generally live in the middle too, but do like to make the occasional trip to femland. The other night when I was getting ready to go to the Meet & Greet at the Olive Garden I just had a moment where I dysphoria'd up a bit and thought I'm OK with almost all aspects of having boy-bits but I honestly want two fem things: real boobs and an upper lip. ;) When I got home, I put on jeans and a flannel shirt but kept the boobs, wig & makeup and when I looked in the mirror I thought that's the look I'm really after. I'm not TS, but I have a certain amount of body dysphoria; a certain amount of gender dysphoria. No answers, but I feel where you're coming from.

[Teresa]

MM ,
I nearly misunderstood and thought you were calling some of us " Mundanes" because of our lack of understanding.

I know we've had this conversation before some time ago , I'm apologising but I can't help relating you to my father.
As I'm aware he didn't have a GD problem , he was over 280 lbs over six feet tall and grew a beard after he suffered " Bells palsy ", which he then hid behind and became even more dictatorial. He was overbearing and if you didn't do it his way and accept it you were in for trouble. Yes he did physically attack me at one point as an adult over a ridiculous issue. I remember finding him crying at the kitchen table because he thought everyone had forgotten his birthday and no one loved him. His demise was not pleasant, he bled to death after a botched liver biopsy at the age of 53, no one misses him !
I'm not accusing of being violent but the point is we all have to accept compromise, we can't all say say, " this is how I want to be !" why can't the World accept and if they don't it's their problem.
I always said if I did the opposite of my father I might make a half decent job of my life, it's paid off now because my family support me with my CDing because they love me, and they know I've put myself through so much because I love them and don't wish to hurt them .

I do think you have issues other than CDing you need to resolve.
If I may ask a question, is the need to be girly because you want to be female to a degree or is it something you use to hide behind ?
In some respects you can have the freedom to be MM because your family accept it but how difficult would it be if you family didn't accept it and turned their backs on you ?

[PaulaQ]

I can relate to this problem, MM, as you might well expect. One of the things that really vexed me before I started transition, as my gender dysphoria was reaching a crescendo, was the day I discovered I was no longer capable of peeing standing up. This wasn't a conscious thing. I just went into the bathroom, and tried to do my business and - nothing. I waited 20 minutes. Nothing. I sat down and - relief.

This was weird, and super annoying, because peeing standing up was probably the only thing I thought was useful about the equipment I was issued at the factory, so to speak. I didn't think it bothered me. But apparently it did.

This persisted, by the way. Up until I had surgery, I think I as able to stand to pee only once or twice in over two years. It just didn't want to work, no matter how much I tried to will it to happen.

My take on it is that your gender dysphoria is increasing in intensity. What to do about that is the $37,000 question. (At least that's what it cost me.) You'll hopefully get away cheaper. Being unable to stand to pee was the least of the manifestations of GD. The worst were the nightmares. My god, some of them were awful. I know another woman who suffers from them. I'm trying to decide if mine were worse, or hers. Mine involved horrible, horrible things growing out of my body where my penis was supposed to be. (You don't even want a description.) Hers involved living a normal life, as a woman, with a vagina. And then she'd wake up, realize what she was, and scream.

I think hers were worse.

Watch your emotions, dreams, and feelings about your body. If things start to go south, consult a gender therapist.

[Marcelle]

Hi MM,

I am going to go with a Coles Notes version of what I think you are asking just so you know where I am coming from. You are a guy (bull moose) who identifies as a guy but likes to mix your expression through the use of mixed gender clothing. You like being a guy (I am extrapolating from your past posts), like your body, like your beard and have no desire to do complete "en femme". Recently though you have begun having body dysmorphia ("reaching for parts which aren't there" I believe is the statement you used). Is this a case of "you wish you had a more female body" or "you believe you are in the wrong body".

The reason I ask is that one "wishing" is a bit different from the other "feeling". Plenty of folks on this side of the forum "wish they had a more feminine shape" but have no desire to be women. Whereas on the other side of the forum those who "feel as though they were born in the wrong body" are more inclined to want to be women (not always but for the most part). I can see where the confusion lies as they both seem to be linked on a base level. If it is a matter of "wishing" then it is plausible to take on more feminine body with work but it will never be truly female. I am TS and have no desire to alter my body surgically or chemically so I will always have a male body but will sculpt it through exercise to be more a of fit/athletic female albeit male. It is the best I can hope for and I am fine with that. However if it is a belief you were born in the wrong body, that is something different. I can't recall from your posts if you have ever sought gender identity counseling. If not, that might be a good place to help bring order to chaos and you might find your answers there.

Sorry, I can't really be much help and sorry if I came off as glib, I just noted your confusion and wanted to clarify a few points.

Cheers

Marcelle

[PaulaQ]

Whereas on the other side of the forum those who "feel as though they were born in the wrong body" are more inclined to want to be women (not always but for the most part).

No, we are women. Want has nothing to do with it. Being a man has lots going for it. Being a woman - not so much. But it turns out that the only thing worse than being a woman is being a woman who's forced to pretend she's a man for her entire life. Our identities simply will not be denied.

[mechamoose]

"wishing" is a bit different from the other "feeling". Plenty of folks on this side of the forum "wish they had a more feminine shape" but have no desire to be women. Whereas on the other side of the forum those who "feel as though they were born in the wrong body" are more inclined to want to be women (not always but for the most part).


It isn't about wishing, it was a physical disconnection. I felt alien to myself. That was the weird part. My flesh was wrong.



However if it is a belief you were born in the wrong body, that is something different.

I wasn't born in the wrong body. It has been fine until recently. Now it just seems different.

I'm 51, I'm too old to start this now :/ Not wanting it, not looking for it. It is actually damn inconvenient, but life is what it is I guess.


I can't recall from your posts if you have ever sought gender identity counseling.

No, I have never needed it. No offence, but what are they going to tell me that I don't already know?

This body is my personal cage, I have to handle that.

<3

- MM

[Marcelle]

No, we are women. Want has nothing to do with it. Being a man has lots going for it. Being a woman - not so much. But it turns out that the only thing worse than being a woman is being a woman who's forced to pretend she's a man for her entire life. Our identities simply will not be denied.

Sorry Paula,

But this is semantics only. By wanting I meant "we are women" but were born in the wrong body so there is a desire (want) to align oneself with the correct gender in whatever way one sees fit. Please let's not get into a tomatoe/tomato debate over semantics. Yes, we are women but that has to be accepted and the desire to effect change has to be realized and acted upon because there is a deep want to be who we were meant to be.

MM,

Sorry for the misunderstanding of your post . . . I will disengage. :)

Cheers

Marcelle