are we kidding ourselves...are we in denial about being in denial....

[mykell]

thanks for updating the title:

so this is CROSSDRESSERS.COM, be sure you spell it right cause if your off by one letter who knows where the browser will drop you off.

those people talk about the spectrum, LGBT the T being pretty inclusive, dont know who those people are but thats what i heard....i dress therefor i am gender NON-conforming !!! took quite a while to embrace, learn, and accept.

im not a card carrying establishment preaching type but i do my small bits to inform and correct and admit to being involved with the group....i dont go out much but when i do ive been comfortable and have fun with the folks i interact with but do admit most times it is a GG SA.....some here are out in the wild frequently and do blend quite well, comfortable being amongst the world in general, i dont know what the ratio is but some of these folks are only out to there SOs and claim to be in the trenches, while i find it commendable that they are out and about much more so than i ....i dont believe that they have more skin in the game.... some are out to theyre children, family and friends and certainly risked it all to be TRUE to themselves as well as the world.

is their still some denial on our part as we still hide, granted some are hiding in plain sight, but it has been said we are not all in.
my feeling is i may not be all in but i am not being all out.....im not ashamed to be part of the group.....sometimes get the feeling that some are....

[Karren H]

Well everyone' is different and everyone's situation is different. No need to slam anyone for doing what they feel they need to do to survive.

[mykell]

was not trying to slam anyone karen, i have asked for a title tweak, it did sound brash and i apologize,

that being said you know some here take pleasure wearing :hiding: jeans.....

[Kate Simmons]

To add to what Karr said, not everyone feels the need to explain themselves to anyone else. :)

[KrissyP]

The fact that there are periods of ambivalence among cross dressers is well documented. We have many posts on "purges" among the group. So let's not be surprised when we sometimes express angst about what we do and what brings us to this site. This is a process for most of us, and not a linear one at that. So let's just be gracious and roll with it. Clearly not everyone is at the same place at the same time.

Enjoy the day!

[MissDanielle]

I'm trans and proud...just won't be able to fully come out until after starting HRT next month. I can say this: everytime I switch back to guy clothes, I get really depressed.

It wasn't until the last year that I begin to really explore my thoughts and feelings. The clothing urges and dreams of being a girl were always there but I didn't fully understand why until the past year with the visibility.

[Tracii G]

First its bashing some CD's then its bashing wearing jeans LOLOLOL.
You are only real if you wear skirts and thigh hi 's I get it now.

[docrobbysherry]

Mikell, while you may NOT have intended it, your post borders on the topic of some of us being "more trans than others". While it's tru that some dressers feel that way, I don't think it's commendable or the goal of this site. Which I believe is to accept and support dressers whether they r TS or simply wear undies under their jeans occasionally.

Rather than pointing out our differences, we should be concentrating on the many things we ALL have in common here!:thumbsup:

[Tracii G]

Sherry I think you are right.
Each of us are different,no better, no worse than the next.

[mykell]

ive asked for a title tweak and apologized, maybe to much caffeine today....doc that was exactly what i was trying to not be :bonk:

i have said previously that i sometimes am afraid to start threads because i lack that ability to convey my thoughts,
what i was trying to invoke was some thought to those that lack the ability to see the exclusivity of being associated with the T part of the group,
when i first came here i was that person but have since educated myself and genuinely ingrained in myself that their is a bigger picture than the one i post of myself in the picture and video section here, again im not parading about like a preacher per say but i consider myself an ally.
my thought was when i first got here i felt i purged the denial but now that im at this point i felt and sometimes still feel that their is a partial denial even if it is not a cognizant thought, but for the most part believe im at favorable state with myself....

so now i even confused myself as to what i was trying to ask

again was not try to stir the pot but looking for something deep in our souls :love:

[docrobbysherry]

Along that line, Mikell? I often don't consider myself trans at all. Just a guy who gets excited about wearing ladies clothes and uses every trick in the book to appear as one. But, that does technically put me under the T umbrella.

My point being? Even if we don't feel like we're part of the "community", we r!:heehee:
If we all went out to T events and met other dressers, we would realize the commonalities. I was at one yesterday. I always feel like an outsider on my way there. Then, after chatting with a few T's, it strikes me how many feel that exact same way!:eek:

[Jane G]

You lost me for a minute there mikell. I've frequented this forum for a while now. It's a very friendlily place that provides much comfort to me as a cross dresser. Some of the forum rules prevent it from becoming a place where we can discus some aspects of Cross-dressing and TG. I understand that, there are many other forums and as closet cross dresser since age 5/6, now in my mid 50's, I applaud this forum for sticking to some old fashioned principles and not turning into an anything goes chat shop. This is one of the friendliest places I have found on the web for cross dressers. I don't know what you would like to tweak and I appriciate change often helps us move forward, but I hope it remains that way for many years to come.

[Kimberley May]

I'm not in denial. I'm not TG, just CD and I'm in the closet with it.

Do I feel any shame with what I do? Yes but far less so than before, otherwise I wouldn't be here posting my photos in the first place which means I already have one foot out. There's really no shame in feeling shame, even by feeling shame to be here isn't really shameful, as for one many may still be confused with their identity, plus I know if I came out with this or got discovered here then it would likely detrimentally affect the relations I have with my family and friends and possibly my relationship with my girlfriend. The risks are still way too high to come out totally for many and we're taking considerable risks by posting photos here in the first place.

I just discovered that threads get locked after a while which means my past photos cannot be removed. I wish I was made aware of this at the beginning. I would have linked to them from an external site where I could delete if I felt it was necessary.

Anyway, it's very much taboo still, even amongst many in the gay community I heard (which I find to be very odd and two-faced). So it's no surprise if many people are naturally a little nervous about being here.

You say you're not a gender conformist but it's like you're suggesting that we should all conform into automatically finding a sense of pride? As I'm sure you understand we have a tough enough time being understood and that many people may still be confused and unsure of themselves so pride is maybe the last thing on their minds, many do this for different reasons whether they're TG or not. In our case for many, unfortunately pride often does come before a fall :(

[ReineD]

what i was trying to invoke was some thought to those that lack the ability to see the exclusivity of being associated with the T part of the group,
when i first came here i was that person but have since educated myself and genuinely ingrained in myself that their is a bigger picture than the one i post of myself in the picture and video section here, again im not parading about like a preacher per say but i consider myself an ally.
my thought was when i first got here i felt i purged the denial but now that im at this point i felt and sometimes still feel that their is a partial denial even if it is not a cognizant thought, but for the most part believe im at favorable state with myself....


Sorry, I'm having trouble following. Do you mean members who say, "I only like to wear women's clothes but am not a crossdresser" or "it's only clothes to me, it does not impact my gender"?

Thing is, it's very much about clothes for some people, or getting into a fantasy zone of femininity without any desire to impact their male lives. So if they believe that the term "crossdresser" means a person who has gender issues, then they will not identify as a crossdresser. The terms commonly used in this community are not consistent and people tend to have their very own definitions or be influenced by how other people see themselves if their definitions depart from the common usage.


Some of the forum rules prevent it from becoming a place where we can discus some aspects of Cross-dressing and TG.

If you mean the sexual aspect it's OK to discuss sexuality or sexual preference issues. It's just not OK to describe fantasies or scenarios with graphic or explicit detail.




I just discovered that threads get locked after a while which means my past photos cannot be removed. I wish I was made aware of this at the beginning. I would have linked to them from an external site where I could delete if I felt it was necessary.


Go into your profile page (click on "Settings" top right corner) and at the very bottom of the menu on the left, click on "Attachments". You will find a list of every picture you've posted and you can selectively delete any photo you like.

[Kimberley May]

Thanks ReineD, and mikell who also pm'd me with the solution. Phew :)

[Karren H]

First its bashing some CD's then its bashing wearing jeans LOLOLOL.
You are only real if you wear skirts and thigh hi 's I get it now.

What I do isn't "bashing". Its helping others see that their feminine fashion sense has drifted. A lot!!! Think of it as a public service! And your welcome! Lol

[mykell]

hi Reine,
when i first came here i was very much consumed with my "self", i was a crossdresser and nothing more, i did not identify with all, since i have learned lots and embraced the spirit of the community, sometimes vilified (not personally) for not doing enough, still had some guilt about that, some seem to take more credit than they are due, some dont think they are part of the big picture, but it is a journey....as you learn your opinions and beliefs change and you evolve, during my evolution i accepted that natural born males generally dont wear dresses so as an individual i an non-conforming as i take pleasure in it....i like to shop.....im interested OK fascinated with make-up, fashion, and wearing said items but dont hate my male time and responsibilities, im gender fluid, so what does that make me, easy....Mikell, mikell is transgender.

mikell has doubts, mikell is still learning, mikell accepted that im part of the group....mikell was deep in the closet when i got here, heck i didnt have a picture of myself or the name mikell, but even as far as i have come i still find a comment sometimes by moderators and sometimes by members that have me second guessing my "self", so it had me thinking am i still in denial because im not on the mountain top shouting to the world about my "self"

everyone here is on a different place on the journey, and wanted to get a feel for theyre thoughts....

[MissDanielle]

CD is under the TG umbrella. One who CDs may not be TS as far as wanting HRT, etc. but they are definitely TG. Anyone whose gender expression does not match their birth gender is TG. They could be CD, gender fluid, bigender, etc.

[ReineD]

....as you learn your opinions and beliefs change and you evolve, during my evolution i accepted that natural born males generally dont wear dresses so as an individual i an non-conforming as i take pleasure in it....i like to shop.....im interested OK fascinated with make-up, fashion, and wearing said items but dont hate my male time and responsibilities, im gender fluid, so what does that make me, easy....Mikell, mikell is transgender.

Well, again it all depends on what a person's definition of "transgender" is.

Some people like MissDanielle take the word "transgender" to be an umbrella term under which all people fit who cross the gender boundaries in some way (even the CDers who only wear panties). A lot of transsexuals also refer to themselves as "transgender" (i.e. Kaitlyn Jenner, all the media, children who are transitioning and their parents), and so this puts a different spin on the definition for many CDers who do not feel any other than their male gender, no matter what they wear.

If you mean that before, you thought it was abnormal for you to be fascinated with makeup and fashion and now through joining this forum you see hundreds of people who share your fascination and you no longer feel alone, then that's a good thing. But still, using a term like "transgender" to describe yourself (if this is what you are doing) is not all that descriptive for the simple reason there are so many different ways to define the term, even for people who feel they are male-gendered sometimes, and female-gendered at other times (gender fluidity). It's best instead to say what you like to do, i.e. "I enjoy my male life and I am also fascinated with makeup and women's fashion, and enjoy wearing these things sometimes or all the time". Or, in the case of someone who does not feel they are male, "I was born in a body that does not reflect the gender I feel I am, and so I am adopting the presentation of the woman I feel myself to be".

I wouldn't call differences in how people describe themselves "denial". Instead, I would call it a lack of consensus in this community as to what different terms mean.

[Katey888]

when i first came here i was very much consumed with my "self", i was a crossdresser and nothing more, i did not identify with all, since i have learned lots and embraced the spirit of the community, sometimes vilified (not personally) for not doing enough, still had some guilt about that, some seem to take more credit than they are due, some dont think they are part of the big picture, but it is a journey....as you learn your opinions and beliefs change and you evolve, during my evolution i accepted that natural born males generally dont wear dresses so as an individual i an non-conforming as i take pleasure in it....i like to shop.....im interested OK fascinated with make-up, fashion, and wearing said items but dont hate my male time and responsibilities, im gender fluid, so what does that make me, easy....Mikell, mikell is transgender.


Well, that's all a good summary of how you feel and probably good for a lot of other folk too....

I have a couple of observations, if you will permit me... (can't actually stop me unless I swear... :p)


People in denial don't actually realise or accept that they're in denial.

You may have some issues with this as the discussion develops... :devil:


Trying to think of a metaphor.... Think of the folk that go to conventions who express themselves by looking like Klingons - the non-Trek world (and possibly a lot of the Trek world) sees them all as "Trekkies" whether they're Klingons, human or Romulan... Can you imagine the response from some...

"I am NOT a Trekkie - I am a KLINGON!"
"Yeah, right. Well, big guy, the rest of the world sees you as under the Trekkie umbrella, so suck it up.... 'Trekkie'..."

Katey x

[mykell]

Well, again it all depends on what a person's definition of "transgender" is.

Some people like MissDanielle take the word "transgender" to be an umbrella term under which all people fit who cross the gender boundaries in some way (even the CDers who only wear panties). A lot of transsexuals also refer to themselves as "transgender" (i.e. Kaitlyn Jenner, all the media, children who are transitioning and their parents), and so this puts a different spin on the definition for many CDers who do not feel any other than their male gender, no matter what they wear.

If you mean that before, you thought it was abnormal for you to be fascinated with makeup and fashion and now through joining this forum you see hundreds of people who share your fascination and you no longer feel alone, then that's a good thing. But still, using a term like "transgender" to describe yourself (if this is what you are doing) is not all that descriptive for the simple reason there are so many different ways to define the term, even for people who feel they are male-gendered sometimes, and female-gendered at other times (gender fluidity). It's best instead to say what you like to do, i.e. "I enjoy my male life and I am also fascinated with makeup and women's fashion, and enjoy wearing these things sometimes or all the time". Or, in the case of someone who does not feel they are male, "I was born in a body that does not reflect the gender I feel I am, and so I am adopting the presentation of the woman I feel myself to be".

I wouldn't call differences in how people describe themselves "denial". Instead, I would call it a lack of consensus in this community as to what different terms mean.



reine i think the root of the denial thought was to not believe you are part of the group, i attend a trans support group and sit with folks from all parts of the spectrum and its all inclusive....to my right is a GG on blockers, left a GM on blockers, moms, dads, sisters, brothers, boy friend, girlfriend, most times im the only one who claims to be fluid, all at the table side by side, all transgender, several years ago you would never see me seated at this table.....now when i leave the table and someone makes a comment about those who sit at the table i have theyre back now......i may be a little disingenuous with how i do it but its able to be done without outing yourself.....by not doing so I felt "in denial", so if i tell folks i have a trans person in my family and feel theyre comment rude... so i didnt let them know it was me....or told them it was a sibling that was put to adoption that i just found out about....i feel more genuine and still abide by my SOs terms of CDing....

[ReineD]

reine i think the root of the denial thought was to not believe you are part of the group,

That's what I mean! :)

MtFs dress for different reasons. If a person sees the group as "people who are changing their gender" and they only CD because they like the clothes without feeling they are gender fluid or changing their gender in any way, then they won't feel a part of "the group". If this same person defines the group as "everyone who puts on clothing opposite their birth sex, no matter their motives, no matter what gender they identify as", then they will feel part of the group.

[Alice Torn]

Karren said it well, I totally agree, stole my thunder... but not my jeans.LOL

[sometimes_miss]

Well, I'm not out, nor am I in denial about anything. So the concept of this thread doesn't really make much sense to me. Then again, I don't understand why anyone would refer to themselves in third person, either. To me, that always seemed very odd.

[Tracii G]

What I do isn't "bashing". Its helping others see that their feminine fashion sense has drifted. A lot!!! Think of it as a public service! And your welcome! Lol

Karren I was being sarcastic and I totally get where you are coming from.
Nothing you ever do will upset me you know that.LOLOL
I love your PSA's here and on FB.

[mykell]

Well, again it all depends on what a person's definition of "transgender" is.



well the thing is that the definition is all inclusive and defined to include the JCD (just a crossdresser) as well as a host of others, its an umbrella term so how does the JCD change the term, how does a person change a definition of a word.....

im not asking anyone to explain themselves, i was made to second guess myself from some posts here last week in some threads....i picked a very obnoxious title at first and corrected it, tried to clarify it better....im wondering myself and wondered if anyone else felt this sometimes ....ive been here for awhile and felt....well "odd"-er because of it....

[ReineD]

well the thing is that the definition is all inclusive and defined to include the JCD (just a crossdressed) as well as a host of others, its an umbrella term so how does the JCD change the term, how does a person change a definition of a word.....

Like I said, some people (for example you and MissDanielle) see it as an umbrella term. I see it that way too. But, some CDers see the term more in line with how the media and many people who are actually transitioning (or have transitioned) use it, which is an alternate way to say "transsexual" and these CDers don't want to identify in the same way since they don't dress because they feel they are female or gender-fluid.

A CDer who says he is not transgender is not in denial. He is instead not agreeing with the way the term is used in most every media article and story we read. I dare say that if you ask a person on the street to name a transgender person, they will say Laverne Cox or Kaitlyn Jenner, both of whom are women.

Certainly, CDers can educate others about the umbrella meaning of the term "transgender" and describe all the different people who are under it, but it's difficult to fight on one's own the associations made by the media in recent years and some CDers may not be willing to do that. Hence they don't call themselves transgender. It's their choice.

[mykell]

I have a couple of observations, if you will permit me... (can't actually stop me unless I swear... :p)


"People in denial don't actually realize or accept that they're in denial."

You may have some issues with this as the discussion develops... :devil:


Trying to think of a metaphor.... Think of the folk that go to conventions who express themselves by looking like Klingons - the non-Trek world (and possibly a lot of the Trek world) sees them all as "Trekkies" whether they're Klingons, human or Romulan... Can you imagine the response from some...

"I am NOT a Trekkie - I am a KLINGON!"
"Yeah, right. Well, big guy, the rest of the world sees you as under the Trekkie umbrella, so suck it up.... 'Trekkie'..."

Katey x

this works for me as well as what ive stated previously....your answers may vary.

[Lauri K]

thanks for updating the title:those people talk about the spectrum, LGBT the T being pretty inclusive, dont know who those people are but thats what i heard....i dress therefor i am gender NON-conforming !!! took quite a while to embrace, learn, and accept.


Certainly I am not going to try to speak for other members here, but since I am "gender non conforming" I feel very strongly that I fall under the T umbrella and I am proud to be there. What a great place to be !!!

There is nothing wrong with being trans, and the welcome mat is out if you choose to join us. If you don't that's fine too, just know though that we are the paving the road to progress as fast as we can.

[Tina_gm]

Oh Mikell, I am sick as a dog, was in bed for nearly 12 hours, have the day off, signed on here and look what you are bringing to the table, this mess of thought provoking nonsense, which of course will drag me right in, because I cannot help myself lol.

This topic really fits me quite well, in a way. While I believe there IS truth to what I feel, that the reasons are for others, (kids, wife, mother, other family) that I do not venture out and become known (wife knows) is for them, them them them. If it was just me, I would not care, and would dress and be out if and whenever I felt like it. It ISSSSS possible I am using them as a scapegoat for my own lack of courage perhaps. I really do feel though that if we the JCD have our family priorities as numero uno, then regardless of how we come through, or out or whatever, we will always still be thinking of their needs before our own, and likely will be making certain sacrifices.

[Sky]

Go into your profile page (click on "Settings" top right corner) and at the very bottom of the menu on the left, click on "Attachments". You will find a list of every picture you've posted and you can selectively delete any photo you like.

But that has an expiration date, right? I also wanted to retrieve some really old pics I posted to the forum but they're not available as "attachments".

[ReineD]

Sky, I just looked in my own attachments and they date back to 2008 to when I first posted an image. If you posted anything before that, then I don't know, you may be right.

[CallmeAlice]

I don't think I have been in denial. I never really felt like it, yeah when I started out I was wondering if this was normal and what not but I was 12ish. Sure I might not be the one to go out in public fully dressed, but I'm already self conscious about myself in public anyways.

Yeah you could say I was in denial I first. But I don't think so, a 12 a lot of things start to change then and 12 y/os are already asking the question "is this normal." But when I started to look up crossdressing at that age I noticed that I couldn't come across other people who did cross at that age. But I did find that other people did start in their teens and what not. So 12 y/o me was like cool, I'm ahead of the curve lol. But I wasn't going to go around and start telling everyone that I crossed.

But as I grew up some more and found other people like me, I started to accept it more that I did then. Then I was more timid to do it, mainly of fear of being caught. As I grew older it kinda became, this is who I am and this is what I do.

[Stephanie47]

OK, Traci and Karen. One thing about creative writing, it is difficult to express levity, tongue in cheek, the lighter side. Of course, as with a lot of politics these days, say anything and the person hearing it will read into it what they want. I for one have always said I do not own anything but dresses. No skirts and blouses and definitely no pants/trousers/or whatever a man wears to ride a horse. That being said I've always said I've seen some drop dead gorgeous women getting out of the cab of a cement mixer wearing steel toed boots, jeans, flannel shirt and hardhat. You cannot miss natural GG beauty. It hits you in the face.

Me? I cannot pass muster with a blind man. CD-ing is a private affair for me. I express my opinions openly and freely toward those who will spread ill against anyone if it is based on ignorance, hatred, etc. Frankly, support coming from a person who does not have the appearance of espousing self interest sometimes goes a lot further.

Time to go try on that Barrows and Croft new dress that came yesterday.

[Teresa]

Mikell,
I don't consider myself in denial at all now I know where I am in the spectrum , I would say that it's more to do with consideration for others if they don't want to be part of it, I suppose you could say they're in denial for not being on board with you !

Part of denial comes from not believing what you actually are, it doesn't matter if your in the closet or out to the World you have to be honest with yourself otherwise you go round in destructive circles !

[Dana44]

Mikell, I am not in denial, I know where I am on the transgender spectrum. ON JCD'rs it should be JACD for Just another cross dresser.

[mykell]

Oh Mikell, I am sick as a dog, was in bed for nearly 12 hours, have the day off, signed on here and look what you are bringing to the table, this mess of thought provoking nonsense, which of course will drag me right in, because I cannot help myself lol.

This topic really fits me quite well, in a way. While I believe there IS truth to what I feel, that the reasons are for others, (kids, wife, mother, other family) that I do not venture out and become known (wife knows) is for them, them them them. If it was just me, I would not care, and would dress and be out if and whenever I felt like it. It ISSSSS possible I am using them as a scapegoat for my own lack of courage perhaps. I really do feel though that if we the JCD have our family priorities as numero uno, then regardless of how we come through, or out or whatever, we will always still be thinking of their needs before our own, and likely will be making certain sacrifices.
hey gendermutt,

wish i was in bed sick as a dog instead of sharing some insights of my”self” the other day.
just by hitting the “complete registration" button to join takes courage !!!

i recall that we met in a thread similar to this one, it was a “tell don't tell” and there was lots of disagreements by the members, in it i was adamant that this is not a one size fits all community and i strongly believe that today, when it was done i vowed to never participate in one again, people wright accusatory comments and members dissect each line and push you into a corner and when things are broken down like that they take on a different meaning. some threads get hijacked and turn into philosophical debates. now it seams I've started one.

since I've been here we always have these threads with commonality “tell don't tell” , “are you gay if you what a man while dressed”, “ is it sexual”, “you don't do enough for the community”, “im just a crossdresser”, “your not trans enough”…….I was trying to write the anti-version of these types of threads, after reading them i sometimes questions my “self”

when i come here and read these threads there are invariably posts by members that are judgmental in nature even if unintentionally written, they are read, some comment back some just move on to the next section…..i for whatever reason i take some thoughts and muse them in my mind and reflect on them, most times i wont comment to avoid the CD.COM law team. cant afford to hire an attorney. but for whatever reason this month i found MYSELF thinking about being in denial again, not my first time, have had those thoughts for some of the other thread topics i mentioned, but this time it was “do i do enough for the LGBT community” and “I'm just a crossdresser”

i think I'm transgender and do what i can do for the community and do it in a way that keeps me in line with what my wife and i agree too, lots of things have changed for me this year.

death of my mom who turned out to be a transsexual health care aid in the seventies…
more conversations with my wife about my needs…
many baby steps in my relationship that have given me space to shave, attend meetings with LGBT community and I've even began to try and start my own local support network….
had a few ventures into the wild and felt extremely comfortable…..
and still i was made to feel in denial…..WTH

so i apologize to anyone who may be offended that i shared this here and did not convey well that it was me that had reactions to some of comments in these type of threads, i tried to word it to include many different variations of type of crossdresser and situations, some i have had, and some i haven’t. I'm on a sliding scale. just wanted anyone who had felt that from some of the folks that post these negative ways to share about it…….pretty unsuccessful….

this was possibly to inclusive or broad, i was not judging you if you don't go out, attend rallies for LBGT support, out themselves, i was looking for folks that read these types of threads and find posts in them that make them second guess some different areas of crossdressing, participation, support, ect. not so much about feeling good about yourself…..but actions or inactions.

gendermutt the one thing i most remember about that “tell don't tell” is that I made a friend from it, albeit a virtual one, i do consider you a good friend….hope your feeling better….


Well, I'm not out, nor am I in denial about anything. So the concept of this thread doesn't really make much sense to me. Then again, I don't understand why anyone would refer to themselves in third person, either. To me, that always seemed very odd.
odd is as odd does......i suppose

Along that line, Mikell? I often don't consider myself trans at all. Just a guy who gets excited about wearing ladies clothes and uses every trick in the book to appear as one. But, that does technically put me under the T umbrella.

My point being? Even if we don't feel like we're part of the "community", we r!:heehee:
If we all went out to T events and met other dressers, we would realize the commonalities. I was at one yesterday. I always feel like an outsider on my way there. Then, after chatting with a few T's, it strikes me how many feel that exact same way!:eek:

thanks doc, after i attended some Trans support meetings it got to the point where i had that "i get it" moment, talking with real people and seeing the angst in theyre faces, felt humbled.....have met very few dressers though....those you share seem much more fun.