The reverse TG effect??

[Tina_gm]

1st a disclaimer- I am generalizing. I know blah blah blah there will always be lots of examples of exceptions. What I am talking about is a possible observed upward trend. That is the point of the question marks at the end, because I am not sure if what I am observing is in my head, or a real trend.


I am talking most specifically about younger white males, although all ages, gender and ethnicity can be involved as well. It seems to me, in the very recent past and today, a big upward trend of younger males displaying much more of a duck dynasty like look. Younger being mid 30's for me btw. Actually we can round it to 40. Anyway, I have noticed lately.... SOOooo many pick up trucks on the road lately. Almost always being driven by the most stereotypcial looking... redneck. Yep, I said it, the R word. Sorry, but I really do not know what other or better way to describe them. But, so many these days.

Maybe its just me. Maybe I am coming to realize how much different I am to the "standard" male. But, I think back to my past, when I was a teenager or early 20's. We all dreamed about and wanted cars. muscle cars mostly, and the arguments about which was better, mustangs, camaros trans ams, corvettes. I see so many younger males today driving trucks, and I wonder if now instead of the talk of which hot rod we like, want, or have, has been replaced with the F-150, 250, the Sierra or a dodge ram?

And the look, so standard. completely unkept look, scruffy beard, as in an inch or more, sometimes several inches long, no trimming whatsoever. No bothering with any type of clothing, other than camo of course, which apparently goes with anything. It seems as if it is quickly becoming the white male uniform. I often run into these stealthy macho men in places like walmart, as they are so well disguised I never see them and consequently run into them.

Camo was not a style that I remember back when I was younger. And I never remember any of us getting too jacked about the latest pick up truck either. None of us felt the need to grow big bushy beards. We used things like razors, and combs. I remember when we would go out, we actually would specifically use those things, and would wear decent clothes too!

Is it just a fad??? Is it just my strange location, northeast in a liberal (supposedly) state, yet somehow has become a symptom of a polar shift??

Now, as to my question, Is what I am observing a response to the recent more acceptance of gay and transgender people? Is this what I am observing a way for straight cis guys to announce their cis hetero nature? To be anything else would qualify them as not masculine enough? I am attempting some humor in this, to a point. But I really do wonder, with all of the recent knowledge of gay and trans, is this really a result that is has pushed cis hetero males into this sad state where they feel they have to present so far into the backwoods look to prove their cis hetero nature??

Lastly, are women not only accepting this current trend in younger males, but looking for it too, so they feel more secure their "man" will not drop some bomb on them about being gay, bi, or trans?

I know this is a bit of a stretch- maybe I am just seeing how much different I am. Maybe it is just a trend, like the long hair bands of the 80's. Or the rolled up pack of smokes in a white t-shirt look of the 50's. I really do wonder though what is going on with the complete lack of any effort in grooming or sense of fashion other than it has to be camo.

[Nadine Spirit]

Hiya GM-

I have been a country dweller for much of my life, so pickups, camo, and beards have long been in fashion around where I have chosen to live. But I have seen more of an uptick in the size of the beards, much more Duck Dynasty length. Personally I don't think it has much to do with LGBT acceptance. I do think it has to do with Duck Dynasty popularity. I am also a duck hunter and we have seen an increase of the number of hunters out in the field as the popularity of the TV show has grown. I don't think has anything to do with LGBT issues.

Just my .02

[Sara Jessica]

They are called Hipsters. The beard is in style.

I'd have made a horrible Hipster.

[Sallee]

I think the pickup truck is always in style either a nature of machismo, or just needed for work and to haul toys around. I drive a pick up. the beards and the unkempt look I guess is a turn on to women, not me. I went through a macho phase for awhile but I think that was trying to hide my CDism. I am way over that now.
I'll just call it fashion for lack of a better term. I really don't think it has to do with anything other than maybe a hipster look. It sure isn't me but thats ok

[audreyinalbany]

it always surprises me how many guys drive pick up trucks that have NO EARTHLY REASON to ever ever ever haul anything heavier than an eight year old to soccer practice or a couple of bags of groceries from the store. Maybe they bought a 2X4 once at Lowes. I guess it's a guy thing

[AllieSF]

I too believe that the style has nothing to do with LGBT issues, lifestyles nor the need to differentiate the males from their LGBT cousins. The beards, whether short and trimmed or longer and unkempt, to me are just another trending style that over time will change to something else, something like wearing your baseball hat backward, which thankfully has finally gone out of style for most younger males, and the grunge style used by both younger males and females. Now we have those flat brimmed "doofus" hats! As for rednecks only driving them, I am not sure. You sit up high in pickups and see more of the road, scenery and what is up front in traffic. It is also heavier than most cars and gives a feeling of more security, and maybe for the males, more false personal strength/courage. Many reasons that women consider when driving SUV's, some that look bigger than an average pickup truck. I have always been short compared to most other males and thus not an equal when it came to strength and the ability to defend myself. However, when I get in my car, I feel equal to any other male. It is a mental thing, but real to the individual. That very much could play into more males driving pickups. However, the most popular vehicle out there as far as I know is the Ford F-150 pickup, which sells more than any other car or truck model!. That is a trend.

I grew up in the Midwest and many pickups used to have a rifle rack against the back pickup window. That I do not see much any more. I also think that it depends on where you live and shop. Walmart attracts a specific type of shopper, where your average mall another and your upper scale mall another. Rural people have more practical uses for a pickup, while urban dwellers usually look for smaller cars to be able to find more usable parking places.

[Karren H]

I drive a pickup! 03 Ford Ranger FX4/Level II. It's amazing and I get a lot of unsolicited comments. And I drive it enfemme. Girls with their own 4wd truck are held in high regard around here. Maybe even enough so as to overlook the fact they aren't genetic girls. Lol

[NicoleScott]

No reverse TG effect, in my opinion.
Pick-up truck: my first was bought in 1978, traded for a 4-wheel drive in 1980. It didn't take long for me to think "how did I function without one?"
Sold it in 1990 and bought a minivan AND a trailer. Several vehicles later (sedan, SUV....) a pickup bed or a trailer is a must.....for a small boat, ATV, lumber, etc. Appliance store wants $60 to deliver a new dryer. No, I'll pick it up.
Camo: I remember when there was one camo: woodland (ugly). Fortunes have been made by better and more effective designs. Now camo is fashionable. At deer camp, you may get jeered if your outfit has mismatched camo (Treebark pants, Realtree shirt...). Fashion faux pas, even at deer camp.
Sometimes it gets silly. I knew a pick-up (with a bedliner!!!) owner who DID NOT EVER allow anything in the bed. Camo gets sillier: jumper cable case in camo. Camo ATV with bright shiny chrome wheels.
Some of this is legit, but a lot of it is trying to create a false image, but I don't think it's gender image related.
(p.s. I'm in my recliner wearing plaid boxers and a camo long T. haha)

[Christie ann]

I have to agree that I don't see this as a specific response to any anti-LGBT thinking. Not to say that these guys aren't anti-LGBT but Having always lived in small western towns, pick-ups, straggly beards and unwashed men are just part of life. One change though is I believe there are fewer gun racks in the trucks I see about town. I too drive a truck. My friends call it a girl truck because it gets better gas mileage than all of their trucks.

[Sky]

I think OP has a point here. No question trucks and scruffy beards have always been a part of our cultural landscape. However, I do notice they are displayed with extra pride nowadays. I wouldn't call it a reaction against our community, more like a reaffirmation of America's "tough" values, which have seen weaker days. Case in point, and yes I know it's silly pop culture but still relevant: once upon a time, the Muppets' Sam the Eagle was a vehicle to make open fun of America's traditional values. Would that be acceptable today? Don't think so. The character still exists, but the jokes at "flying the flag" are gone. (Now he has the hots for Janice)

PS: I've always dreamt of a Ferrari, but I'll take a 'Vette anytime. Keep the F150, thanks.

[ReineD]

I also don’t think it has anything to do with anti-gay thinking. More women than men are in college, women keep rising in the workforce, and the economic downturn is affecting men more than women with the loss of blue-collar jobs. There are even more female than male tech users now. Androcentrism is on the decline and men need to find their new roles in society. I also don't think this is in response to what these guys think women want. Women are not more attracted to guys with beards, trucks, and woodsy clothes than other guys. Trends come and go, they're often regional, and women have always chosen partners from available trends.

So the style you describe is called lumbersexual and it stems from hipsters. You can google it but here’s a pretty good article from The Atlantic. There are still plenty of non-lumbersexuals around, although my youngest son has been sporting a full beard for a few years now. He told me it is because he is too lazy to shave. lol.

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/12/lumbersexuality-and-its-discontents/383563/

As to seeing more trucks, I wonder if this has to do with low gas prices. I'd love to own a truck if it wasn't for gas consumption. It's nice to have a vehicle to be able to haul things.

[Pat]

I believe the summary of the situation is "What's the matter with kids these days?" and the trend has been going on for all of recorded history. When you're young, you do things to differentiate yourselves from "the old folks." All of your peers differentiate themselves the same way. Then you reach a certain age and you notice there are younger folks doing something different -- "What's with them? They all look alike!" This will be followed on in short order by negative comments about their taste in music and that -- stuff; that wiggling -- they call dancing! I'm pretty sure you can find those exact words written by Socrates somewhere.

[Jaymees22]

I was always under the impression people that drive the biggest trucks were over compensating for something they were lacking.

[Tina_gm]

Reine, I award you queen of the internet. Only you would be able to find something like this I was blathering about. So far the consensus is yes, what I am observing is real, and no, it is not anti LBGT. Although the article Reine links does have a masculinity in crisis effect as given A reason for what the current trend for white males is today. Another, the socioeconomic effect is not something I had thought of. It is interesting in its hypothesis at least.

I have often lately seen one of these lumbersexuals (label by the article) lumbering around, as in their gait, or driving around and thought to myself, this months winner of "I am not caitlyn Jenner award goes to..." I am hopeful at least that the thought that this current trend is not an anti LBGT trend. Still though, I am saddened somewhat by seeing it. As for having a truck, sure, to have one sometimes would be nice. There are times I have borrowed one for a day. I personally do not need one enough to spend the money to get one. I do actually admire those who do hard labor work. I see nothing belittling of it. It is still our most needed labor force when all is said and done. The amount of guys I see driving these big ol pick ups these days, no, there is not that much hard labor out there for them to be needing one. I sometimes am wondering if this notion that a "real man" should be doing some sort of hard labor work, and the labor force of it is now becoming glutted. Where I work is a smaller rural community, and it seems pretty much every man who lives there has some sort of labor type work. Which to me is odd as there is so much poverty in the area which I work. So not much money for people that need labor work, besides the fact that so many in that area seem to know how to DIY just about anything anyway.

[Dana L]

So I guess I shouldn't drive around in my lifted Ram with 35's wile wearing my camo bikini, daisy dukes and heals. Might start looking a little too macho. LOL That's just the kind of the style nowadays. My son is 24 and fits the description to a tee. Suppose it's better than looking at his underwear because his pants are hanging down so low. I grew up liking muscle cars but got into trucks out of need and to be different. It was fun pulling my buddies muscle cars out of the ditches every winter. Of course I'm from Wisconsin, we might as well be a southern state, just up north.

[AllieSF]

You make some interesting points about men driving their pickup trucks. I also note in your last post that men are driving pickups that do not reasonably need to. What about men, or women for that matter, driving SUV's, or sports cars, or luxury cars, or whatever? Why not have everyone drive gender neutral ugly and unappealing (to me anyway) eco cars, like hybrids with reduced trunk space? We would save a lot of money that could be spent on other more worthy and needed things, the air would be cleaner and maybe their would be fewer deaths from accidents and pollution impacts. Why? Because we all have different tastes and have prioritized what we will spend our money on, even when if we looked at it critically from an economic and ecological point of view, we would be just as well served (but not necessarily internally satisfied) with something else. I am not criticizing what you wrote, but just trying to add that other element that comes into most purchase decisions, utility and vanity, the cool factor, or whatever one would like to call it.

Again back to your OP and what I replied above, I see no connection with the LGBT side of life. No connection with the vast majority of those truck driving bearded people.

[I Am Paula]

Men are devolving. Within two generations they will have tails again.

[Lorileah]

You know, we don't allow people here to bash women and just so you know, bashing men is not allowed either k?

When I was young the only people wearing camo were humping the brush. We sorta frowned on non-military people wearing it as a fashion statement.

[Dana44]

What is wrong with pickups. My SO has a GMC canyon pickup. I have a Dodge ram 2500 4x4 diesel. Also a Toyota 4x4 pickup.
We have gone out in all those vehicles as two gals. In Texas, the pickup is king.

[Nashmau]

dont care for pick ups, but with the right bodysize the look is ...mhh pretty attractive but only with 3 day beard ;) and since i fall into the age range i would say mission accomplished ^^

[ReineD]

I have often lately seen one of these lumbersexuals (label by the article) lumbering around, as in their gait, or driving around and thought to myself, this months winner of "I am not caitlyn Jenner award goes to..." I am hopeful at least that the thought that this current trend is not an anti LBGT trend. Still though, I am saddened somewhat by seeing it.

No ... I think it's an anti-"I-can't-find-a-job-that-pays-well-enough-to-support-a-family-or-live-comfortably-like-my-father-did-so-what-does-this-mean" trend. I agree, it is sad.



The amount of guys I see driving these big ol pick ups these days, no, there is not that much hard labor out there for them to be needing one.

With wages not keeping up with rising prices, there are more people who are into DIY projects. A truck would have been handy when I rented the professional sanding machine to redo our wood floors, when I bought the new bathroom vanity, when we were moving all my artwork and mirrors to my SO's house, when I wanted to bring a mattress and box-spring to someone else's house, when the lawn-mower needed repair ... and more than I can list here.

[docrobbysherry]

No duck dynasty beards on SoCal. Too few to mention anyway.

And, 1/2 the pickups and most of the giant SUV's r driven by women here. Not very well at that! Of course, the tradesmen aren't much better. They take 2 parking places on purpose. The soccer moms do it by accident!:doh:

[Gillian Gigs]

I live in the heart of pick-up country, then again it is also redneck country. Yes, alot of guys have beards, some less kept than others. I think that this is just a passing fashion, and will move into something different in time. Remember when everyone wore Doc Martins, where are they now. The Fu Manchu mustache came and went, so will this.

[flatlander_48]

(p.s. I'm in my recliner wearing plaid boxers and a camo long T. haha)

PLEASE, please, avoid mirrors until you have changed clothes...

DeeAnn

[IamWren]

GenderMutt... I think you're answer might be held in this article from Bustle.com (http://www.bustle.com/articles/70182-the-symbolic-meaning-of-6-hipster-trends-from-beards-to-fixies-kind-of-fascinating-but-whatever) titled: The Symbolic Meaning Of 6 Hipster Trends, From Beards To Fixies (Kind Of Fascinating, But Whatever)


"Scientists say that that the sudden surge in the beard popularity is simply a matter of beards being uncommon:"

And here I thought it was because everyone wanted to be like William Fitzsimmons.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PGvcGybjc0

[erickka]

I went through the muscle car phase, but I was a long haired country boy. I now have a 2003 Tundra as my daily driver and my monster F 350 4 x 4 diesel which I often drive en femme. Never got into scruffy beards or camo though. Guess I was (and still am) a non conformist.

[sometimes_miss]

Men will do whatever they think will attract women. The duck dynasty thing is a perfect example of that; guys thinking that women will be attracted to guys who look like the millionaires on TV. Same as girls being attracted to guys with their oversize baggy pants hanging off their butts because the rich rappers dress that way. Girls will put up with pretty much any look if a guy has enough money (or appears to).

Same with light trucks. It's a macho thing. Look at all the monster truck shows, and how all those drivers want a tougher, meaner truck than the next guy; the whole monster truck thing about pickups built up so much that they can 'crush' other people's vehicles. Cars, well you can only go so fast before the tickets (and more importantly the insurance surcharges) get too expensive. So they ride around slow in a big truck. And, you can also get extra work with a truck. More and more, cars are becoming easily damaged, not to mention tiny. Over and over in sports car circles, some cars get labeled as sissy cars, and no matter how nice, many guys won't touch them. The Mazda Miata was a perfect example of the perfect little sports car; everything the British MG's, Austins, Triumphs, etc., were, only dead reliable and water tight. But it was branded a 'girlfriend' car, so lots of guys wouldn't touch it, and made fun of any guy who did. Not to mention, light trucks are designed to emulate their bigger full size brothers. All vehicles are now defined by how mean and tough they look, like they're going to bite you.

I never did understand the three day growth of beard being attractive to women. I believe Don Johnson made it popular back in the 80's. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Camo is another masculine signal that infers the wearer is in the armed forces, again, a way to imply being a big, tough soldier who can depend on the rest of his army to defend him and his mates whenever necessary. Again the whole 'I'm a tough guy' pose.

And now that gas is as cheap as it's ever been, driving a gas hog truck isn't prohibitive cost wise. So we'll see more and more trucks sold (they're also among the most profitable vehicles the car companies sell).

[Helen_Highwater]

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't there some tax advantage to buying a pickup? I'm going on what was said on an episode of Top Gear not that long ago. The fact that they're cheap might go some way to explaining their popularity when times are hard.

[Rhonda Jean]

I don't read anything into it.

It's still duck season here. I went into a large duck hunting store that is kind of a meca for duck hunters a couple of weeks ago. For years I've been amused at the number of guys who wear earrings with their camo, including camo and duck-themed earrings. They apparently pick their earrings to match their outfit. By the way, there are LOTS of women around here who actually hunt. Feminine girly-girls. It's just their thing. I say more power to them! I like my stilettos, they like hunting boots. We'd make an interesting couple!

[NicoleScott]

As discussed on "how to get a close shave" threads, many of us say that we get our best shaves with a 3-day beard growth. I shave every day, but if you see me with a 3-day scruff, you know that a dressup session is imminent. So when I see other guys with a scruff........nah, can't be........can it?
Much ado about pick-ups and camo. Both men and women (and kids) make statements with other items: SUV's, girly cars, clothing, electronics, even homes. A real estate salesman told me of a house he listed, big and beautiful (the house - haha) great curb appeal and a great location. Mattresses on the floor, concrete blocks and boards for shelves, no furniture. But the owners loved the image of living there.

[Sara Jessica]

And here I thought it was because everyone wanted to be like William Fitzsimmons.


BTW, I think the original premise is sooooo out there.

Why does there have to be anything nefarious when it comes to dudes relishing the fact they are dudes and they are all good with being dudes and love having mounds of face fur to out-dude their dude friends who are secure in being the dudes they are???

Look at this guy (edit: see previous post #25). He is clearly stoked with his facial creation and also happily bares his chest to show off the furry goods there. What's not to marvel about such a thing???

And remember, a lot of women LOVE this look because, well...they are attracted to DUDES!

Seriously. We want people to understand and accept who we are and/or what we do. Why is it so difficult to do the same for others???


And for those who don't get it, if you see a Hipster on your lawn, be sure to yell at him to get off!!!

[Tina_gm]

Sarah, I really really have no problem with guys wanting to be macho guys. Enjoying their masculinity. In fact, I am not among the fans of certain politically correct gender neutral stuff. However, what I am observing as of late, is that the masculinity of the western world seems to be an ever reducing list of what is acceptable for what masculinity is. Case in point, the leg crossing threads. I just chuckle at them because it was only a couple of decades ago that this was not even a masculine or feminine issue at all. On a couple of occasions I even posted a photo showing Sean Connery as 007 crossing his legs knee over knee. Now, a guy here in the U.S. who does this is deemed to be sitting fem style.

Now, this sudden bearded and very un kept look may just be a fad. But I do wonder that what we as a society are deeming to be masculine for men is reducing the ability of men to do only very few jobs, drive only certain select vehicles (pick up trucks) and only look a certain way. It just seems like the limitations of what is masculinity these days is reducing masculine men to be clones of each other. You never see the lumber sexual dance, accept for slow dancing, or singing, god forbid. their gait is a completely uncouth lumbering about. Workboots in all seasons now. Camo of course, which I just personally think is a silly look, but that is just my opinion.

I have thought hard about my past as a teenager, and how many of us had pick up trucks, and how many of our parents dropped us off or picked us up in them. Not many. But now, they seem to be almost, at least in this area, the most common vehicle to drive, especially for men. Economics probably do play a part I am sure. Gas is adjusted for inflation about as cheap as it has ever been. But still, unless you really really need one of these, why get one?

I really am not knocking the working man here, I promise, nor am I knocking anyone who has one. It is just part of what I am seeing here as a trend. Not that someone has one, but guys, especially younger guys now feel they have to have one in order to be considered masculine.

[Sky]

The Mazda Miata was a perfect example of the perfect little sports car (...) But it was branded a 'girlfriend' car, so lots of guys wouldn't touch it, and made fun of any guy who did.

Are you suggesting I'm a girl? Well... I guess I should thank you? :heehee:

(I'm about to install a roll bar in my Miata, not to look macho but to be allowed into Track Days)

[grace7777]

I wonder if some of the guys with trucks are trans, and the truck is a way for them to cover it up or an attempt to run away from being trans.

[flatlander_48]

g7:

It's called Over Compensation...

DeeAnn

[ReineD]

Case in point, the leg crossing threads. I just chuckle at them because it was only a couple of decades ago that this was not even a masculine or feminine issue at all. On a couple of occasions I even posted a photo showing Sean Connery as 007 crossing his legs knee over knee. Now, a guy here in the U.S. who does this is deemed to be sitting fem style.

No one examines these issues more closely than this community. I think some members desperately want to believe they are naturally more feminine than non-CDers and so they cross their legs and say this is a feminine thing to do. People who are not in this community don't think twice about who does or does not cross their legs.



But still, unless you really really need one of these [trucks], why get one?

Because they're useful! You don't have to be a farmer or construction contractor to need one. I'd love to own a truck and it has nothing to do with femininity or masculinity.

[Krisi]

I think you are making something out of nothing. What you are seeing is nothing more than a fashion trend. It will pass.

I own a truck. Most of the time the car gets me where I'm going but I would have a hard time carrying plywood and lumber for a home project in a smart car.

[NicoleScott]

Some guys really need big trucks. Some don't but have one, feeling the need to say to other guys "mine is bigger than yours".

[Tina_gm]

My thread is really not about pick up trucks. It is just part of an observation I made that younger males, teenagers or early 20's now are driving them as a means of showing masculinity, or feel they should drive a pick up truck, because to an increasing number these days, it is the "man vehicle"

Reine, as for the leg crossing thing, I agree that it is not the ultra feminine thing to cross ones legs, or at least it didn't used to be. It has become that. Part of what I am observing is that masculinity or the accepted expression of such seems to me to be reducing what a masculine man can do. Cars are becoming too feminine, dancing now too feminine. wearing anything other than work boots.... Again, I am generalizing to a big degree, but it is an upward trend. Here is a link to a video about leg crossing and why so few younger males do it these days....
https://youtu.be/-2_fjB2iSiw

[ReineD]

Part of what I am observing is that masculinity or the accepted expression of such seems to me to be reducing what a masculine man can do. Cars are becoming too feminine, dancing now too feminine. wearing anything other than work boots.... Again, I am generalizing to a big degree, but it is an upward trend.

Again, I think this sort of thing is scrutinized only by a segment of the population, people in this community certainly and maybe a bunch of young people who are working out their pecking orders in life. Just about every portrayal of gender in the media is stereotypical (overly generalized) and honestly without this, people wouldn't have a topic for articles or youtube videos.



Here is a link to a video about leg crossing and why so few younger males do it these days....
https://youtu.be/-2_fjB2iSiw

She is actually saying how silly are the "man-spreading" rules. I agree with her. As to the man-spreading advice she is quoting, it is from a transman website. Not surprising. She goes on to show examples of "man-shrinking" and shows a picture of Obama with legs crossed. Do you think the average person in this country accuses Obama of being feminine because he crossed his legs? She then goes on to cite two men who were ridiculed for crossing legs, but this happened in middle and high school! We cannot look at the things kids make fun of and take them to be the direction that gender expression takes in adulthood for most people. She then goes on to cite one woman (ONE, not a survey of 500 women across all ages and socio-economic backgrounds), in websites whose aim is to increase traffic among young people by adhering to the "let's talk about gender-dividing stereotypical things" and create a buzz.

So yeah. There are some people outside this community who think about which of their behaviors make them look more masculine, but it is much less than you imagine it to be. Start observing a lot of people where you live, and notice those who don't fit into what you are describing in this thread just as much as those who do. :)

[Tina_gm]

Reine, I am a people watcher, big time. Noticing what people do and how they act etc etc is something I have always done a lot of. One of the reasons why I posted this thread, is what I am observing something that is happening more in my area, or is it more widespread. I do think that for whatever reason, the particular area in which I live is being hit harder by this lumbersexual movement, if you will. It is odd to me that it is more prevalent where I live as it would not be expected to be.

The video itself shows that what was once not an issue, now is. And yes, it is the younger ones who may be taunting and teasing, but I can guarantee you that most men under the age of say 40 in my area at least, very very few cross their legs knee over knee. Those older don't see it as an issue because it didn't used to be. As much as both you and I are in agreement with the woman doing the video, it is that this stuff exists now so much more now than it used to, and that is the point of my thread

[ReineD]

Well then, you're entitled to your opinions. :)

I see some of what you describe around here, but it is not the norm. People are too diverse for that.

[Tina_gm]

One thing I have noticed since 3 years ago when I stopped the repression of CDing is that my perceptions have altered a bit. Usually for the better, but not always. Sometimes I can hyper focus on things. I feel I am mostly more correct with my perceptions but can get a little more off occasionally, if any of that makes any sense. I asked my wife maybe a month ago or so, if she remembered this area being "so redneck" She seemed to think it has gotten a bit moreso around this area as well.

I travel a lot to the Chesapeake area in Virginia, and while it is a vastly populated area, little of it is actually straight urban. It is a lot of endless suburban. Plenty of young guys living the redneck dream, but I SWEAR.... there is a higher concentration where I live in the liberal northeast. Much higher actually. So, again, I was wondering through this board which such a cross section if what I am seeing is geo specific, and it looks like from the responses and some internet wandering, that it is more prevalent up here, but it is something that is occurring most places in the U.S. Now comes the reasons why?????

[LilSissyStevie]

No duck dynasty beards on SoCal. Too few to mention anyway.

And, 1/2 the pickups and most of the giant SUV's r driven by women here. Not very well at that! Of course, the tradesmen aren't much better. They take 2 parking places on purpose. The soccer moms do it by accident!:doh:

It depends on what part of SoCal you're in. Up here in the high country a pickup is part of the redneck uniform - along with the flannel shirt, jeans and work boots. Facial hair is somewhat optional. But not any pick up will do. It has to be a 1 ton or what's the use? A 1 ton dually for pulling your stock trailer or a 1 ton FWD for general purpose. You are as likely to see a woman driving one as a man. My wife drives our truck more than I do. Our unofficial motto for this area is it's where men are men and so are the women.

[ReineD]

Plenty of young guys living the redneck dream, but I SWEAR.... there is a higher concentration where I live in the liberal northeast. Much higher actually.

I suppose this is another side of it ... the political divide in this country is becoming downright ascerbic, given all the issues that are against the rules to discuss here (and for good reason ... to preserve general harmony). I dare say this might (might) have an impact on how people choose to present. I think a lot of people are getting angry even if subconsciously. I think a lot of people are feeling powerless. And there is less disposable income available for the middle and lower income classes compared to 30 years ago and beards, jeans and inexpensive shirts are easier on the budget. Gas is low too, for all those trucks.

Still, there are plenty of people who do not present the way you describe or if they do, it's just a question of fad or convenience. We are indeed a diverse lot.

[TaraGrace]

Just wanted to say this is a such a funny thread for someone in Europe.. sure we haul stuff, but that's what combo's and vans are for.. why on earth would your vehical need to be open, doesn't it rain in America? ;)

[Nikkilovesdresses]

One of the most interesting threads I've seen in ages, and long time no chat Gendermutt!

I think it entirely possible that you're right, that the trend you've noticed is a reaction to the steadily rising profile of non-trad gender expression.

But isn't it also true that during the 'wildly liberal' 1960s, facial hair and scruffy clothing was the fashion? Plenty of gender-bending then too.

My own hunch is that you're seeing a combination of effects, including the increasing absence of formality, where many people's biggest social dread is in being overdressed. I was at my father's funeral in a very hot country a couple of years ago and was astonished to see his closest friend, who I think of as ultra conservative, turn up in shorts and a tee-shirt, while I wore a black suit.

We are at an interesting time, where society's trad values are increasingly attacked and undermined, but look into the past and see how conservative men used to dress! Huge wigs, white powder on their faces, platform shoes, silk stockings- what would they have thought of your rednecks, or the '60s hippies?

[Andrea Renea]

I'm with Rhonda Jean on this one.

People just "like what they like" Somethings are just gender neutral.

About a year ago I was at Dick's Sporting Good in Hickory NC Shopping. There was a
twenty something very attractive , very feminine girl with her boyfriend/Husband buying a hunting rifle. She was more knowledgeable than the sales clerk. She knew exactly what she wanted.

As for trucks, I want one too. Everybody here NC seems to have one.

Not much of a guy or girl if you don't have one lol.

[NicoleScott]

TaraGrace, yes it rains here in America, but not all the time (except in the Pacific northwest - ha). Cargo hauled in a pick-up bed can be kept dry with tarps or camper tops. Open pick-up beds, protected by molded or spray-in bedliners, make it easier to hose out the blood after transporting a body.
Lots of deer hunters here, ya know.