Cheating?

[donnaS]

If your wife refuses to have a sex life with you after coming out to her and you look else where for intimacy. Is that considered cheating? I am who I am. Don't mean for her to fill like a lesbian. But won't to go on HRT.
And transition to a certain level. But I still need
Intimacy.
Compromising is not possible with her. Says she's not changing. I have offered to be in drab mode for intimacy, but she says it's hard to tell between the two. She says the female side is stronger in the bedroom.
Feeling really guilty for wanting to be who I am, I'm just me.

[Laurana]

Yes it's cheating. You want to bang someone else get a divorce. Otherwise use your hand and be happy.

[Joni T]

This^^^^^^. Or get permission from your wife to find it elsewhere. You have a huge decision to make. Do you want a wife or just a bed mate?
Jon

[Kimberley May]

If my wife banned sex permanently regardless of being in guy mode or not, even if I quit it, then something isn't right and I would be concerned about my marriage. Is she happy to remain celibate within the marriage and have no sex life at all forever?, is it until she can trust you to never go back to crossdressing?, or is there a possibility that she is now seeking sex elsewhere herself? I hate to say it, but to lose sexual interest in you maybe regardless of mode, is it a possibility that she may be the one who's cheating, or at least looking for a way out of the marriage now?

I only ask because it's such an obvious question for others (like me) who doesn't know your situation. I hope you can resolve this and save your marriage.

[Tina_gm]

Unless you come to an agreement with her that she accepts you having intimacy with another person, then yes, it is cheating. Here is another example of why us revealing later on becomes so bad for us. Your wife had an image of you, thought to believe of who you are, only for you to change all that. You may not have changed yourself, but you changed in her eyes. When things go south with ways like intimacy, we really only have ourselves to blame. We do this to ourselves by not being fully honest about who we are. Now, your intimacy is gone. I feel for you, I really do. Now you must decide where your priorities lie, and it certainly must be a very hard and painful decision to make. To stay in your current situation, with a woman whom I am sure you clearly love dearly and do not wish to leave. You do have the right to be who you really are. To leave your wife to be that is not wrong. To compromise severely so that you stay with her is not wrong, you just have to learn how to deal with it. To try to have it both ways and go on yet another round of lies and cover up behavior, IMO, that is wrong.

[donnaS]

I agree with y'all. But also was told she wouldn't have married me if she knew about all this before we said I do.
I know I'm a butt head for not disclosing this info ahead of time.
I don't want a divorce over me being who I am. The guilt would be overwhelming. After all she didn't expect or ask for this.
Just really miss the feel and connection to that special person and long for it badly. Something you won't get in a bed mate.
Yes there is possibly someone out there who might be more accepting and want a TG. But that is the million dollar jack pot that some here on the forum are looking for.

[Tina_gm]

Perhaps there is some way in which you can bring the man she married into the bedroom? Or maybe not at this point, as she feels you are just not that man now. I sympathize deeply with you. Perhaps a big discussion could be had with the both of you to see if there is a way to rekindle the romance. Perhaps, offer a total break for her of all CD related things. Can you at least for a time, just be the man she married? or show her only the guy side? I really hate this aspect of the life so many of us lead. I don't deal with it on an intimacy level as you are, but there are ways in which my marriage is going through a similar aspect.

[Amy Lynn3]

Donna, I'll not go into the why's and why not's, so I'll answer your question this way. Yes, sex outside of the marriage is cheating, regardless of the reason. If your wife found out about it, she would have legal grounds for a divorce. Divorce cost in so many ways, for both parties, especially you. Have you ever heard this ? It is cheaper to keep her. Lots of truth there.

If I were you I feel I would ask her if she, along with yourself, would seek professional counseling. It is, in my opinion the only thing that will bring life back into the marriage. If she is not open to that, maybe think about going alone. You must try something, don't stay in the mindset you are in now.:2c:

[donnaS]

I bought this really nice ring for her at Christmas. I got a really good deal on it.
Huge rock huge!
I didn't like her wedding ring she had.
I figured any girl would want something like this. Guess I was wrong, said she didn't want it. I know it's her choice but I'd die if someone gave me a wedding ring like that.
I don't know, so frustrated. I'm couple years you get than her. She claims age is the factor, her body has changed for the worse in the intimacy catergory. But we have been together just two years and married for one year. I feel so pretty dressed and crave to be touched. But on the other hand, she wants to feel the strong hold of a man. And the security.
It's funny how we want the same thing, but neither can give it.
Thank you for your advice. It will work out.
We never know the future. Just take it day by day.

- - - Updated - - -

It's like in the movie Danish Girl.
You both want what you can't have.
So what do you do.
They kinda went thier separate ways while still married. Until the government annulled the marriage after SRS.
I can't guarantee I can be the man she married. I'm ready to transition partially.
Gosh, I'm an emotional roller coaster.
She didn't ask for any of this. But I didn't ask to TG either. So the trillion dollar question, How did two people like this end up together?

[Laurana]

I agree with y'all. But also was told she wouldn't have married me if she knew about all this before we said I do.

Right. And if you had been honest with her on day one you wouldn't be putting her through this misery.



I know I'm a butt head for not disclosing this info ahead of time.

Yes, yes you are.



I don't want a divorce over me being who I am. The guilt would be overwhelming. After all she didn't expect or ask for this.

1: That option may be taken out of your hands.

2: That's something you'll have to live with.

3: That's right, she didn't.



Just really miss the feel and connection to that special person and long for it badly. Something you won't get in a bed mate.

Yes well, you chose to lie to that "special person" so if she doesn't want to touch you anymore you're going to have to deal with it.



It's funny how we want the same thing, but neither can give it.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, your wife wants a man who looks like a man not a dude who looks like a lady.

And I wouldn't bring up counseling. She didn't bring this on.


My words might seem harsh but *shrug* they're the truth

[Dinky39]

Maybe she feels you were trying to buy her acceptance with that ring? I'd be pretty annoyed if my husband told me after only 2 years that he didn't like my engagement/wedding ring (as ye either chose it together or you alone picked it out). How long has your wife known about your cding? If its only 2 years,then her finding out/being told,to you asking her to be intimate in the bedroom while dresded is a very big leap. I'd probably shut down too. If I was your wife and you cheated,i'd be mentally be ticking another box in my head saying to myself,I was right to deny him sex. That's only my opinion. Your wife maybe completely different.

[donnaS]

Lauranna
Your not harsh.
It is the truth
But then again, who really introduces thier future spouse to all the skeletons in the closet and tells ALL of thier secrets.
She had had sexual abuse in the past that was ever revealed before we married.
That only came out when I discovered how she felt about sleeping with Donna.
Shocker for me. Never saw that dating.
Deal breaker for me? Probably so. Just left marriage from a drug abuser and what other people had caused in thier past. We all have issues that we probably never reveal.

[Stephanie47]

Yes, it is cheating. I think you knew the answer to your own question before you posed it. My recommendation is divorce. Based on this thread and the thread on wanting HRT, what does your wife get out of this? Nothing at all! Yes, you should have told her about your sexual confusion before marriage. Do you want her to live in misery for the rest of her life? This is a game changer. Don't try to pull that "for better or worse" business. Frankly, whatever attributes your wife saw in you before this proclamation are going to take a back seat to this. You say "I'm just me." Well, your wife can also say that. The only difference is she is only expecting the person with whom she sign the marriage contract with.

[Pat]

This so screams out for professional counseling instead of internet debate....

[donnaS]

Dinky
She chose the ring. I let her do it.
I guess my male side thought it was an up grade. And thoughtful. I see I have a lot more to learn.
So, we never discussed what was ok or safe in the bedroom. We just let it happen. If she doesn't have the feeling, she just doesn't. So, it's for better or worse right? Then I should have stayed in my last marriage with the drug abuser and her keeping the finances drained.

[Meghan4now]

First, it is cheating.
Second, you need to get your mind to where she is at. A ring? Really???

Is gifts even one of her love languages? As a suggestion, try reading "Five Languages of Love". It might help you think outside you own box. You clearly have some damage control ahead of you.

And the intimacy issue may not be only based on your revelation, that might be the straw that broke the camels back. I get that, and have had my share of mismatched libido as well. You CAN live with a life of reduced intimacy IF your marriage is more important. Priorities, find some.

[donnaS]

I see.
Sounds like I made a major mistake in getting married again at least in my disclosure.
I though I was grasping onto the TG side of me. Wow! I'm in left field.
I want to be female but seems I have no clue to what I'm doing.

[docrobbysherry]

I agree with Jennie, Donna. All this talk of no sex, oversized rings, abuse, etc., etc. is a waste of time. All discussions about symptoms, not the disease!:sad:

Sounds like your marriage WAS a mistake? But, there's only one way to know for sure. Both of u go see an experienced counselor. He/she will not only allow u both to honestly vent your feelings and fears, but could also point u in the direction of some helpful solutions.

Sounds like u could use some solo counseling, too!:straightface:

[Katey888]

Donna,
I can feel a great deal of sympathy for your position and that of your wife's... :hugs:

I don't think you should be judged for not necessarily realising how big a thing being TG was and what this might mean for you before your were married - lots of folk here (probably some of them doing the judging) have been in a similar situation and have got lucky EITHER because they have a tolerant wife (to any degree) OR because the TG thing is not so strong. You've admitted you think were wrong in not revealing this earlier and it takes some self-confidence and awareness to do that - so I don't think you need any more criticism for what you recognise as a mistake. :)

Here's where I think you've already identified the deepest problem:


I don't want a divorce over me being who I am. The guilt would be overwhelming. After all she didn't expect or ask for this.


If ever there was a justifiable rationale for divorce, it's about who you (we) are - particularly if your TG side is developing (and may not have finished its development yet...)
In my view (a little old-fashioned, but marriage is an old-fashioned ideal) the contract is broken - she thought she was getting a cis-male: you're not. If she's not prepared to compromise on that you have two, stark choices:

Either you compromise on never having a sex life again to stay with her if she can accept this (tough one...)
Accept that a fundamental tenet of your relationship is gone and dissolve the rest of it...

You might try counselling, but I wouldn't be betting on a successful outcome of the scenario as you describe it...

And don't worry too much about the sanctimonious brimstone that emerges here oftimes - the keyboard preachers have no skin in the game, don't know you or your wife and probably never will... You offered yourself as a soft target here but your actions and choices are the only ones that really matter to you and yours - I hope you can find a successful way through for what you need... Good luck!

Katey x

[Jenniferathome]

Yes, it's cheating if she is not aware of it and ok with it. But you know that.

Have you considered seeing a sex therapist together. It will be uncomfortable at first but it will uncover all the issues.

[Dinky39]

So you chose to replace the engagement ring of her choice (that is meant to unite ye both) with a big,massive ring that screams look at me? That says a lot to me.
I imagine if your wife wanted to marry a woman,she would have.

[sometimes_miss]

Or course it's infidelity. The rules of marriage are stacked against us. We know that, yet we do it anyway, we have our heads in the clouds, everything will be fine, our prospective wife is an angel, she's so fine we'll never want a different woman ever again, etc.. We don't get to change the rules just because we don't like them. You get married, that's it. One woman for the rest of your life. And she gets to decide if and when you're ever going to have sex again....and how.
And once she's seen or even imagined you as feminine? That can be the final straw that broke the camels back. Again, the ladies get to decide, not us. All we are is the meal ticket as per that marriage certificate: It's a financial contract. We're not guaranteed any sex. Remember, those laws were created when sex was for procreation. You have any kids? (or even if you didn't, if she had sex with you for a while, she tried to have kids). That's it. She lived up to her marital obligation. Especially if you came out to her after you were married, no judge is going to rule in your favor. Basically, you're out of luck. Sorry. Join the crowd. It's a big crowd. Now, try to avoid the sub crowd of the divorced. It's damage control time.

[donnaS]

Whoa whoa whoa.
I was asking for opinions and I got them.
That was expected. Please loosen up the noose around my neck.
Because of your feedback and helpful advice. I contacted my wife at lunch.
I again expressed my deepest sympathy for what I have done. I explained to her that she shouldn't stay in something making her miserable.
The answer she gave kind of shocked me. She explained that it was a shock to find out about Donna.
And that yes maybe she couldn't satisfy me in the bedroom. But it wasn't the complete nature of Donna keeping her turned off. It's was the bickering and resentment of me not keeping dialog with her on how i feel and including her in my transition. Another mistake on my part.
Guess that's why I threw myself to the wolves. Better to get an outside look into things than make an hasty decision.
But she was happy. Because she felt safe and secure with me.
She wants me to persue everything and be there by my side. And maybe,eventually the intimacy will return.
I have to learn more about me and love myself fully before I can know how to truly love her.
Thank you for all your inputs. Truth is always a rock to build on.
Hugs to all
Donna

[Tracii G]

I am surprised that you even asked the question is it cheating to begin with.Of course it is and you know that.
You said "I do" and that is a binding contract between you,her,God and the court house.
IMO you made a huge mistake in getting married again.
Are you one of those types that feels in order to fit in society as a man you HAVE to be married? Or are you one of those types that wants a woman to be someone that cooks and cleans and is basically your Mom and cleans up after you? I know guys like this trust me.
Are you one that just can't live alone?
There are many reasons why women stop having sex with their men.
1. fallen out of love.
2. Tired of the same old same old ( no romance)
3. Having sex with another guy/guys and feels guilty. I know of this one because I have been thru it twice.

P.S. I was posting while you were so I didn't see it but if you two have come to some understanding then I'm glad to hear it.

[donnaS]

She was dating a married man before I met her. Guess that's why I asked the question.
But no I don't need a cook. I would rather do that than anything.
I lived alone before I met her.
She had been mistreated many times before. This is her third marriage also.
Guess my TG feelings and understanding
Some of hers lead me to the wedding aisle.
Marriage isn't easy. And yes they have survived cheating. I have not cheated on my wife. Some couples even conceive children thru affairs because thier wife cannot bare children. I've seen that first hand. And the child knows both sides.
But then again you have the swinger group also.
So, me not telling my wife what I talk about on this forum......am I keeping secrets and shouldn't be doing this.
Telling one of the members that they are beautiful or pretty. Am I cheating?

[Lorileah]

She wants me to persue everything and be there by my side. And maybe,eventually the intimacy will return.
I have to learn more about me and love myself fully before I can know how to truly love her.
:cheer::cheer: If that isn't a confirmation that, if given the chance, some SOs would be willing to try at least, nothing is. Note my signature from Mr Rogers. It is true but you have to let the other person have all the pieces to make that work.

Now you know you need to talk this out with her. Having a professional there can help facilitate it. She has given you the chance...use it.

[Tina_gm]

Donna, one thing that has helped me immensely, is read every damn word from the GG's on this site. Not all of them are going to have a similar situation as what my wife and I have, but there are remarkable commonalities to so much, even from those who are not in the same type of situation.

Another, actually tune into your own fem side for advice.... The upgrade to the ring.... that is guy thinking right there. the engagement ring, something even say a 1/4c will be more special simply because of what it means, and what you could afford at the time. So that ring will always mean more than just a big huge rock as an upgrade. Think of how she feels, as how you would feel too. It is a strange paradox that keeps my marriage together, because many of my better qualities are from my fem side. My wife has acknowledged this.

Loving yourself is a big key. Being ok with yourself, forgiving yourself because you have this strange condition called human. Learn where gender isn't always the center, but love is. There is hope from what you have recently posted. A lot of work perhaps, but it sounds like she is not willing to pack her bags yet.

[ReineD]

You and others in this thread assume she is sexually turned off strictly because of the CDing. I don't think this is true. It may be only one of several factors and if you resolve the rest, the CDing might become maneuverable.

My 30 year marriage to a non-CDer ended because I eventually got so turned off sexually that I could not have sex with him. Had he been a CDer, I'm sure I would have had THAT to explain it away (the CDing is a highly visible thing), but as it was I could only assume I had become frigid. I did not know why I felt this way and this explains the degree to which many of us are not self-aware. He was a successful man, outgoing, a great dad and everyone loved him. We went to four different marriage counselors. The first was getting to the truth but my ex didn't like him. The second was helping us get to the truth in a way that did not offend my ex, but she was called out of town suddenly to care for an ailing parent. The third thought I was crazy and suggested we get a divorce. At this point my ex was ready to move on, but I was not. We went to a fourth, but he was no help because my ex was by this time mentally done.

It turned out there were deep issues in our marriage that were unresolved, all having to do with our dynamics together. Both of us had an inability to determine what our deep-seated non-sexual needs were, what we needed emotionally from the other and so neither of us was able to communicate it. Both of us had made up stories about the other in our minds over the years and read things in each other's behaviors that were not there. I don't want to get into all the details, but despite all of this he was able to still have sex (he's a man), while for me everything else needed to be resolved before I could let go again. We ended up divorcing.

I'm in a relationship with my SO now and I no longer think I am frigid. I don't have the baggage with my SO that I had with my ex. My ex is also in a relationship and no doubt they are happy too. But the cost on your children and on me (I feel I lost my family) was huge.

This is just to say that I think you will need to find a very good marital counselor who is able to look past superficial issues in both yourself and your wife. We all are complex individuals.

[Amy Lynn3]

Reine, thank you for the uplifting post. You and I went the same route in our failed marriage. I feel you pointed the OP in the right direction and did not do the pile on thing and put the OP down for just being human. After all this is a support site, but as others have said....the holier than thou and keyboard preachers seem to want to kick a person when they are down.

I wish Donna nothing but the best in life and now that she and the wife have come to an understanding I wish them only smooth sailing and happiness. Donna, just remember communication, consideration will take you far in your marriage. Keep us posted on how things turn out for you both and :hugs: to you and Reine.

[Meghan4now]

Ok Donna,

Your wifes response should be an excellent guide. Sounds like she is still in the marriage. You need to decide if you are too. There are some really great points here, Reine and Lorileah have good advice, and Tracii also has good points (even if they are tough).

It really comes down to normal marital relationship building, CDING is merely a side note or extra stressor here.

Only you can determine if you made mistake getting married again, and BTW it has nothing to do with whether or not you should have stayed in a previous relationship. If you Did make a mistake, only you will be able to discern what to do about it.

I am encouraged that: 1 you are recognizing the importance of knowing and loving yourself, and 2. You might just learn how to listen. Remember you have two ears and one mouth.

[donnaS]

I must enlighten a little more.
I have always crossdressed.
I had just started to want transition when the last relationship blew up. Which was totally fine with her.
Because of her drug addiction.
After the counselor told her no more handling the family finances see turned on Donna and said no more. I was devastated. After all I had been thru with the ex. She attacked me at that point.
So back in the shell I went.
Like so many others I denied it and covered it up. Wrong! Here it came with full vengeance. I was remarried by now.
I guess I need that touch to feel love. The intimate touch to know I'm connected to that person. Cheating doesn't fix that I know. But crave that feeling of connection. And cheating is all false feeling. I know a marriage doesn't center on intimacy. But I've been broken.
Counseling starts in Feb.
thank you all for the harshness and advice. It is what it is. I'm a work in progress. And it's hard work.
Hugs
Donna

[Tracii G]

Telling a member here they look pretty isn't cheating because all you are doing is paying a compliment.

[donnaS]

Tracii
Yes that's all I mean it to be.
But in the past relationship.......
I know I know got to let all that go.
If only I can only get the tears to stop flowing.

[franlee]

With the least amount of words possible to voice my conviction on this. I have close to 50 years of experience on this subject.

Yes Cheating is cheating, there is no question on that. You are really asking about justification. That is your decision and yours alone.

Advise, I have none because I never had a wife to take a hard line like you describe but I can honestly say I wouldn't cheat. I'd get a divorce if her mind was set and I knew I wasn't going to change. But that's me.

Good luck, sounds like you are in a hard spot and will either do what you know is right or make excuses for doing what feels good. You wouldn't be looking for outside answers if you didn't already know the answer/truth.

[Eryn]

If your wife refuses to have a sex life with you after coming out to her and you look else where for intimacy. Is that considered cheating?

Yes.

It would be best to resolve your issue some other way.

[claudiaxander]

based on what you have said divorce would be better for both of you, she obviously goes for controlling men and you escaped a controlling woman, too many weird psycosexual dynamics at play. run for the hills but be polite on the way out.

[Jazzy Jaz]

If shes not ready for sex, yet you need physical touch and shes open to continueing to explore your marriage with you then I'll suggest massage or other similiar ways to stay connected or reconnect. Leave sex out of it for now so that neither of you feel under pressure, but this might at least help you to redevelop your connectedness. You two can work your way back to sex when you're both ready. Just a suggestion and I hope everything works out for you.

[TaraGrace]

hi Donna,

Credits to putting yourself open to critical feedback, that at least is a step.
I will not bash a mistake for the sake of bashing.

Also I won't give you my opinion on what to do with your relationship, as that essentially is a decision the both of you need to make together (unless one of you one-sidedly comes to a strong decision to end things prior)

But I would like to give you some good advice in general, seeing as you two do seem to be able to talk, that if you want to understand your partner better, and if she wants the same: talk more!
And there's the point where I can give some good advice : there are many ways to do that more effective (many of which are online suprisingly enough in basic sales training excersizes!

For instance google "open ended questions" and look for examples.

- Ask "open ended questions", not closed ones (that can be answer with yes or no).. easy tip to remember, those questions start with "what", "how" and "why"

- Follow up an open ended question with another open ended question on something your partner said in her answer

- Once you think "ok, now I understand".. don't assume but recap!!!
It might feel a bit dr.Phil to go "ok, so if I understand you correctly, you mean XYZ, correct?", but it is the ultimate double check to see if you understood what it is that she is trying to tell you.. and don't be afraid to say you are doing this to understand her better and make sure you get it right, because that is the truth and a very good starting point.

It might not be an easy road ahead, and it might be easier then we all think based on the bit of input you gave her.. but at some point in time you might need to set some rules to live by that you both agree on.
My last tip is to weigh those rules carefully, because you will be both building trust based on those new rules!
Oh and do not make the classic male mistake of "promises promises", so choose them wisely.
For instance if you know you need a certain level of intimacy at some point, don't hide that or promise it won't be an issue.

Hope that helps, and good luck to the both of you

x Tara

[donnaS]

Wanted to give everyone an update on my question I posted.
My wife and I have been talking more.
My transition is continuing. I finally understood where she is coming from.
She didn't marry her husband. She married Donna which had always been here. Her being married to a transgender is been considerably hard. I want her to see me as Donna. She she's a man as everyone else does. I do not see myself that way, for I have always been Donna inside.
Donna is there in the bedroom during intimacy. I can have totally man clothes on and be full man to her, but she said the female manners where there from the first time. She said it caught her off guard. Never experienced it before. She was very unsure about it all. She explained that's it hard to adjust that this comes from me naturally during intimacy. So intimacy is not very often if any right now. She's not lesbian and I don't know how else to be.
She asked me this question:
When go to your LGBT meetings and you meet someone your attracted to that's just like you, what's going to happen?
I responded: Isn't that cheating?
She responded: Yes, but I'll never be what you want.
So if I came home from a meeting and explained to you how I have found someone, how would you feel and respond.
She responded: I would be expecting that and Would agree to go our separate way quietly.
I guess my question was answered with: yes, it's considered cheating.
But as my wife said. We do not know what will happen to I experience that atmosphere. It may be something I hate and can't handle.
But it may also be what I've wanted all my life.
So each situation is different. Each couple is different. As my wife says: Just live each day, let what happens happen. And we can go from there.
I know now she loves me unconditionally and
Maybe just maybe can understand just a little it of the turmoil TG face living thier lives.

[Nikkilovesdresses]

You CAN live with a life of reduced intimacy IF your marriage is more important.

Good advice- that's where I'm at. I adore my wife, and I'm sad that after years of great sex she went through a long, hard menopause and came out the other side with almost nil interest in sex, but I'm not going to leave her because of it. I had a difficult time of it for about 2 years, but I am so glad I stuck it out.

But from what you say about wanting to go further down the path towards transitioning, I can't say your marital weather forecast looks good to me, even though your wife has made some encouraging noises.

I'd like to add that I admire your self confidence in not being put off by what verges on hostility from some of the members. It's easy here to hurl rocks and get off on judging, but this is primarily a support site, and perhaps people ought to respect that a bit more.

Good luck with it Donna.

[jenn]

I am sorry for your dilemma. I have an SO who is unsupportive, if not down right mean about CDing. I do believe that it would be cheating unless there is an agreement before any action is taken. Is you being TG new for her or has it been a significant about of time?

Well here is a hug anyway!

Jenn

[donnaS]

Hi Jenn
Totally new for her. She was very vanilla when we married. We dated for a year and then got married. We have been married for 1 1/2 yrs. She found out about me 3 months into the marriage.

[ReineD]

My transition is continuing.

Before we go further, would you please clarify what you mean by transition? Are you planning to take hormones and anti-androgens with the view of being full time and eventually coming out at work and to friends/family and pursuing a legal name and gender marker change? Or would you like to maintain your status-quo but have a more feminine body so you can pass better when dressing (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?236244-Starting-counseling&p=3885513&viewfull=1#post3885513). There are vastly different definitions of what transition means among our members and being a bit more precise at this point would be helpful.



She responded: Yes, but I'll never be what you want.

I think this is the fundamental reason she is turned off. Does she feel that when you make love, your mind is elsewhere rather than genuinely into her? There is no greater turn off than a lack of connection when making love, than believing that a lover isn’t into us.

You think your wife is turned off because she senses that you are female. Although hetero women are not attracted to people who have breasts and vaginas, you don’t have those attributes yet. In terms of lovemaking style both men and women are all over the map. It’s a fallacy and rather stereotypical to believe that men are dominant and women are passive. In truth, both men and women can initiate, be adventuresome, sensual, playful, passionate, teasing, and any of these styles can overlap and fluctuate based on mood and degree of arousal. Some lovers (both men and women) are into pleasing the other, while some are into pleasing themselves. Lovers who are more into pleasing themselves (who are in their own zones when love making) can be a turnoff too if this is consistent. The most arousing thing in a partner is when they are really into you and you can feel it through every nerve in your body.

It sounds as if your wife said what she said because she feels a lack of connection when you make love and she believes you want someone else … and so she wonders if you would rather be with men or other CDs/TGs/TSs. I went through that phase too with my SO, as the crossdressing was ramping up. It seemed to me for awhile that my SO wanted to be a woman in bed with a man and I didn't know where I stood. It's all worked out now, but it was difficult for some years.

[Julogden]

Yeah, it's still cheating, regardless of your situation as described.

[donnaS]

Reine
Yes I'm going for HRT. I have therapist set up next week. My wife has said that I won't know if it's right until I try.
Will SRS be in the future. I'm not sure.
My job and age might be the only hold back. I can't afford the time off to recover.
As far as the family. Mom and daughter have known for a while. Just never said anything to me. My daughter says she's cool with it. My work family? There is a GG that knows my story about trans.
The "guys" well, they think I am hung up on Caitlyn Jenner's journey and want to be that way.
So, honestly, I am moving forward. How far, I'm not sure.
Depends on the blood work and Doctor recommendations.

Thank you for everyone's feedback, whether truthful and harsh or support.
It's the opinions that get me thinking and help me make my decisions.
To know others stories, good or bad, helps me know; I'm not alone in all this.

And the bed room?
Yes, we have discussed that. And I'm understanding the feelings she and I have there. It's work in progress and we are not finish building on the relationship yet.

[Julogden]

I agree with y'all. But also was told she wouldn't have married me if she knew about all this before we said I do.
I know I'm a butt head for not disclosing this info ahead of time.
I don't want a divorce over me being who I am. The guilt would be overwhelming. After all she didn't expect or ask for this.
Just really miss the feel and connection to that special person and long for it badly. Something you won't get in a bed mate.
Yes there is possibly someone out there who might be more accepting and want a TG. But that is the million dollar jack pot that some here on the forum are looking for.

IMO, you're being really unrealistic, not to mention selfish. Nothing wrong with you doing what you need to in order to be happy, but don't try forcing your wife to stay with you if she can't deal with it. She needs to move on and try to be happy too.

[donnaS]

Julogden
I have done that. Literally asked her if she needed to move on, that I'm not what she wants is ok.
She still here. I'm not making her stay.
Not holding her here. After much talking
She wants to stay. Says she is safe her and content. I've said I'm not what you want, she asked me: why can't i stay because I love you.
I have no answer for that. Although she may have not wanted to marry me if she would have known about all this before hand, she has stayed this long for some reason.
I have asked and asked her not to stay and be unhappy. It's not fair to her,I totally agree.

[pamela7]

Each person or couple has to make their own moral code to live by. If she does not want sex, and you have the conversation that therefore you'll get it outside marriage, then its not a problem, but it sounds like actually you want it with her. You both might benefit from working through the CD and abuse issues with a professional, and both need to talk about how relationship moves ahead or not given the present situation. The moral as ever is to be open and truthful up front, or even meet a cd-friendly woman before starting to relate.

Sounds like a "next time" situation to me tho. Best of luck

[ReineD]

Will SRS be in the future. I'm not sure.

I didn't ask about SRS. This really is not necessary for transition since the people you deal with everyday don't see what's under your clothes. Many of our TS members live full time as women without having had SRS.



My job and age might be the only hold back. I can't afford the time off to recover.
As far as the family. Mom and daughter have known for a while. Just never said anything to me. My daughter says she's cool with it. My work family? There is a GG that knows my story about trans.
The "guys" well, they think I am hung up on Caitlyn Jenner's journey and want to be that way.

So, honestly, I am moving forward. How far, I'm not sure.

OK, so it looks as if you're not sure whether you will transition or not then? By transition I mean living full time as a woman and coming out to everyone. This is what I was asking, or .... if you would just like to feminize your body while still planning to live as a male (to everyone except your wife, mom, daughter, the GG at work and maybe a few other friends).

Another important question is, would you like to retain your male sexual functioning while taking hormones?



Depends on the blood work and Doctor recommendations.

Well, for sure your blood work will determine what you need to do before starting HRT (diet, high blood pressure, etc), but what I was asking was do you intend to live as a man in some parts of your life (work and some social situations and having sex using your male parts), or do you intend on fully transitioning (this means declaring yourself a woman to everyone in your life and with continued use of HRT, eventually losing male sexual functioning).

I ask this, because it very much has a bearing on how your wife takes this.

Also ... although you began this thread with questions about cheating, a great deal more information revealed itself as we went along that does have a bearing on the issues you are having with your wife. So I don't know what the protocol is here. Do we ignore everything you've said subsequent to your first post (if so, why post it lol), or do we place your first post in context with the other things you've posted.

[donnaS]

im sorry. I didn't mean to post everything wrong.

[Amber83]

I'm glad you both are talking and working things out. I hope things continue to get better in your marriage.

[CallmeAlice]

Bummer. You are who you are and she needs to accept that you do. Does that mean you should force it down her? No, not at all. But what you do need to do is just talk it out. Honestly I think it would help a lot. Find out why she doesn't like it or why she wont get intimate with you.

[ReineD]

im sorry. I didn't mean to post everything wrong.

You're not posting anything wrong.

As I was explaining, the term "transition" is thrown about a lot and it does mean different things to different people. I was trying to determine if for you, it means declaring yourself a woman to everyone and beginning to live full time, or if it means coming out to a few people and feminizing your body a bit but continuing significant parts of your life as a male.

Your wife's reaction to you will vary depending on what you mean by "transition". And then there's the question of male sexual functioning. If you want to preserve it then there's likely a better chance of eventually working things out with your wife. If you want to do away with it, then if she is hetero she may choose to move on.

[donnaS]

Reine
Thank you! Finally someone understands me.
Yes, I want full transition. And my wife is worried about me deciding to move off and live fully as a woman.
I guess my original post was to justify the meeting of someone like me and a bond got started. She definantly said she could see me with a post-op Female.
I never tried to do that or make her feel that way. So if that happens, I have cheated on her by my feelings. But she stated that if I did find that to please tell her before anything happens.
And your right. She had stated that if I can start HRT per doctors ok, we may both decide the isn't for us. But right know we don't know, we want to travel the course and see what happens.
Before the discussion on this forum and the fees back I recieved, we did not talk about it much. So I sat down with her and realized why she was loosing intimacy with me. And we discussed the effects of HRT on me. She is older than me. And get libido is declining. So for her, the security of a relationship with a loving partner is what it's about. Since she isn't into females but has never experienced anything like me before, she isn't so sure that it won't work.
So here we are today, for today, she is a GG and I underdress everyday to work
Plus wear what I want to when I get home. What tomorrow brings, well, that's tomorrow.


I've really screwed this post up again!

- - - Updated - - -

Lena
I want us to work.
But like my wife has said. I may get out there attending a meeting and run into "whoever charming".
I wouldn't want to be intimate with them.
But if we hit it off because we understand each other more than my wife will understand me, I feel I'm cheating on her.
But she sees it different. She sees it as someone that she can never be. And would go her separate way for me to be happy and more complete,sort of speak.
Does she just want a BFF relationship with the woman that used to be her husband?
We don't know, we have never been down that road together. When we do a the road forks, one of us may take the forked path.
You're right. I'm taking in all that's said her. But I start therapy next week with a gender specialist. My wife is willing to participate.