Why lie to your SO/wife? [Archive] - Crossdressers.com - #1 Community & Forum for Crossdressers, Family and Friends

Kimberley May

01-28-2016, 01:29 PM

OK let's look on it tis way, it's hardly something you can just casually drop into a conversation with your new girlfriend over lunch, is it?

"Oh by the way babe, I like to wear women's clothes, high heels and makeup. I even own a pair of silicone breast forms. Hope you understand. Please don't tell anyone, not even your BFF".

Demonise people who already feel enough guilt and shame about their CD'ing finding it difficult enough to come out the girly closet all you like for not being automatically out and proud with it. But who's to say that not only will she not accept it and leave him, but also tell her friends who might tell his friends and his family about it too, who is also maybe on her and their Facebook?

I am relatively new to this and so far haven't told my new girlfriend who I met shortly after, god knows I want to, so I will find out first how she really feels about being with anyone who dresses, before I decide to tell her my secret. I need to understand how she thinks first before I allow her to know my big secret.

If she tells me she wouldn't accept it, then I will not tell her and stop my CD'ing for her if we decide to move in together, and nobody will get hurt. But I can't judge a guy who would find it more difficult to stop and/or too fearful of everyone finding out. We still live in a highly intolerant prejudiced society regarding straight guys who CD that it is actually easier to come out as gay and even to be a camp gay crossdresser than this. Well, unless he has a boyfriend/husband maybe.

Nobody is perfect, and you, me and everyone else find it tough enough to fully feel accepted in this intolerant society. Straight guys have so many more expectations thrust upon them that any deviations still seem unacceptable today. Can't wear pink, can't drink sherry. Bah!

Yes we know dishonesty is destructive, but instead of pointing accusing shaming fingers, which will likely send many to purge against their will again, let's just show some kindness and a little more understanding and support, asking why many can't just come out loud and proud so easily. Help them make the right decisions. If the damage has already been done, judging them more won't help in anyway, but might make him feel even more alone if they feel judged within the only safe haven they thought they had.

Just saying.

Jenniferathome

01-28-2016, 01:37 PM

Wow.
The divorce rate would sky rocket. ..

Yes...and what DonnaS states is so tragically true

No. This is a myth just like cross dressers are gay. This is a great excuse to not come clean but there is no data to support this thesis. If you use this site alone as a proxy, divorces are not CAUSED by cross dressing. Cross dressing becomes the excuse to get out of a bad relationship. Just as the GG's here. Event he ones who are divorced say that cross dressing was not the reason.

Katey888

01-28-2016, 01:39 PM

Interesting perspectives...

Fact: More than half of all marriages end in divorce... (for the USA and UK, amongst others)
Implication: Something was wrong or went wrong in those 50%+ of marriages for that to happen...
Extrapolation: I'd guess a lot of the remaining undissolved marriages also have issues with lies, affairs, incompatibility, abuse, etc. but they stay together because most people can't be arsed to do anything about it (I know couples in those marriages...)
Further Extrapolation: A teeny-tiny percentage of those issues are around being TG or CDing
Conclusion: The vast majority of marriages have a good dose of lies, cheating, compromise, blah, blah, blah... NOTHING to do with our little predilections...

I'm not out to my SO because I don't need to be. I take responsibility for what I do and I intend to safeguard/ compartmentalize this aspect of me for as long as it takes or I change my mind. Not all of us have the relative luxury of being TG-lite - those of us that do have choices that others don't and while I feel for them(you) it doesn't mean we all have to make the same sacrifices - sorry...

Everybody lies...

Katey x

sometimes_miss

01-28-2016, 01:45 PM

Perhaps you don't get to keep up with the other threads on the forum. But this subject has been brought up many times before. I understand that the search function doesn't work all that well, so let's go over it again.
First:

. Event he ones who are divorced say that cross dressing was not the reason.
Don't you read other people's comments at all? Crossdressing was THE reason my wife divorced me, and I've written that every time we discuss this. It even becomes a topic discussed by many others who've gone through this as well.
Now.
I can't speak for everyone, but there are quite a number of us who had stopped crossdressing for a long time, in my case many years, before I started dating my wife to be. I really thought that I had 'beaten it'; that it was just a phase I had gone through. It was in the past, so just like, oh, someone who had killed a hundred of the enemy in a war, it simply wasn't something that I felt I needed to bring up. No one tells their SO everything; we tell what we think we should tell, what we think they need to know. Crossdressing? Something we did in the past? Why burden her with that? I was molested for seven years, should I tell her all about that in detail too? Of course not. At that point, I was perfectly functional normally. I had a good job, I could have sex just as well as anyone else. Things were good. And, had I not lost my job and wound up in turmoil, I'd probably still be married with kids already grown. But things don't always turn out the way we want.

Besides, women don't tell us everything either. They do the same; they tell us what they want us to know (though, my ex didn't tell me stuff either, things she should have, so we're pretty even on the 'what should have been told' list', but of course she didn't see it that way, she, too, thought what she hid wasn't important).

The problem that arises, is that when it's going on, we don't understand what they want to know, and neither the reverse is true either. The problem becomes great when they decide that we deceived them, and what they might have deceived us about isn't of the same importance, so they feel entitled to be more upset than we are, forgetting that each person is the only one who can decide what they, themselves will be upset about.

So there you have it. Just because we erred on what we figured the women would be so upset about, doesn't give them the reason to go ballistic. Everyone makes mistakes, and, we all ARE still the same person they married; we haven't changed. The only change is in how they decide to interpret who and what we are. The change isn't in us. It's in THEM. And they blame us for that. And that isn't fair, either.

Lorileah

01-28-2016, 01:55 PM

Let me address this:

Wow.
The divorce rate would sky rocket. you miss the point. It would sky rocket because you lied. HOWEVER, if you had honest upfront the marriage (if you allowed you SO to decide for herself instead of taking it upon your self to hide it to start with) would be just as strong or stronger. The lie started long before the marriage usually but even if this was something you decided after getting married, keeping it from her is unfair and controlling. You see, SOs have minds. You may THINK you know what is best for both of you but you don't. And NOT allowing her to make her own decision is... well manipulative

Many many closeted CD out there. their choice. They choose to be in the closet for a myriad of reasons. Some very sound. But hiding it from the SO isn't a good reason. You will be caught. In fact I would bet that most already have and the SO is ignoring it hoping you will tell them OR it will go away

And DADT relationships. They can only sneak around. Unless maybe they don't like to see thier kids due to a divorce.
Definition of DADT...The SO KNOWS, you don't flaunt it. It implies the So already has knowledge OR you have an understanding. Not getting into the whole "not seeing kids because of divorce" because first THAT is just as manipulative as sneaking and two, courts in the US won't use crossdressing against you in visitation or custody

First:

Don't you read other people's comments at all? Crossdressing was THE reason my wife divorced me, and I've written that every time we discuss this. It even becomes a topic discussed by many others who've gone through this as well.
Now.

going to throw an objection to this. It isn't the crossdressing (and you are quoting the crossdressers reasons, read the GGs reasons) It is the LIE and the lack of trust that leads to divorce

Sarah Louise

01-28-2016, 02:01 PM

This is one of those things that should be brought up BEFORE the other person starts to have feelings for you so they can have the choice of wanting to be apart of it or not.....not after.

I wouldn't necessarily say your opinion is wrong, but what of those of us who truly believed they didn't need to dress any more when they met their future wives only for the desire to surface again many years later. It's not always that simple and Kimberley May sums up reasons why many don't.

Kiersten

01-28-2016, 02:05 PM

Everyone has there own reasons why they did or didn't confide in there SO about their secret. From a culture standpoint and depending on what generation you are from this may or may not dictate what you are willing to share with your SO. Believe me I’m not trying to offer up an excuse here, rather its just an observation based on society's rules. I grew up in the 80’s and in a catholic household where an activity such as cross dressing would be viewed as sinful, I Knew this was a subject that wasn’t going to be talked about over dinner or ever. At some point this caused me to suppress my feelings a lot of the time and quite frankly carried over into adulthood.
I told my wife before we were married because she needed to know what she was getting into. Honestly if i didn't confide in her when I did and she found after 14 years I'm not sure how it wouldn't of turned out.

Tracii G

01-28-2016, 02:10 PM

I'm one who thinks you need to be up front about yourself before the first date.
If she has a problem with it its her choice to pursue the relationship or not. Its not fair to her to hide that part of you.
If you have a problem talking about your CDing thats your fault not hers.
By telling her it shows you care about what she thinks and that you are man enough not to hide things from her.It called trust.

bok4fun

01-28-2016, 02:25 PM

Just a few ramblings from an old fart... Probably a little off in the head, so ignore me...

I always get aggravated when I read the replies from the people who are very happy to stay in the closet. If you are happy hiding it away, then that is fine, although I'm not really sure why you dress beyond the quick satisfaction.

But I think these conversations are more aptly aimed at those of us who are not content to have to hide who we are, and want to find our unicorn, aka accepting and supporting GGs, as well as being out to the world in general. There are many flavors of us in this world, and just because you are happy with your status quo, does not mean the rest of us have to be.

I have seen many discussions of divorce, where it was directly attributed to this issue. Also, I have seen many people talk about divorce and say it was for other reasons, and while some may believe this was not the cause of their divorce, it is a safe bet that it was a contributing factor.

Many people are afraid to bring it up early for fear of who she may tell. Is it better after being together for 10, 20, or more years, when she knows all of your friends and family, and then have her telling everybody you know after a nasty divorce?

i could go on and on... But it would fall on deaf ears I'm afraid.

NicoleScott

01-28-2016, 02:30 PM

Sometimes Miss, CDing caused my divorce, too. She couldn't be married to a crossdresser. She said so.
It's highly arrogant for other people, who don't know me, my ex, or anything about our marriage, to know what did or didn't cause our divorce. Yes, many gg's say it was the lie, but that doesn't mean it's always the lie. Sometimes it's the CDing. To the "it's the lie" pushers, you can't cookie-cutter this.
To the OP, we can agree on one thing, when you said "I just don't get it". You're right, you don't. Many threads over the years on the "reveal trap" explain it well.

Tara Rushing

01-28-2016, 02:34 PM

I love it when the "holier than thou" brigade comes out....such fun listening to their pontificating.

bok4fun

01-28-2016, 02:39 PM

To the "it's the lie" pushers, you can't cookie-cutter this.

This is may be the most accurate statement said today. There are too many flavors. We are not one size fits all!

Tina_gm

01-28-2016, 02:41 PM

I definitely agree that we should be upfront about ourselves. They deserve the truth just as we do, just as anyone does. That truth though.... Sometimes we ourselves don't always know that truth. In my case, I couldn't truly accept myself as a CDer. I had Cd'd, but would go many years without ever doing it. Honestly, maybe a dozen times from the time I 1st tried it, when I was 22, until the time which I bared my secret desires and infrequent practice of dressing to my 2nd wife which was almost 3 decades.

I did not tell my wife as I had not told my 1st wife, or anyone else. The reason, I was going to take this horrible secret problem of mine to my grave alone. In my head was not a conflict at the time. I was simply going to keep my dreadful secret of female desire to myself, as I always had.

2 years into my relationship with my now wife, I began to feel an increasing urge to dress. On a few occasions when I was alone, I would sneek and dress in what clothes she has that somewhat fit me. Once again, I beat back the urge and went into hardcore repression mode. Then the engagement got closer, my attention was on marriage and I really wasn't thinking too much about it all.

Shortly after the wedding, about a month in, it came back again, stronger than ever. Again, a couple more sneek times of dressing. I was growing ever weaker to fight the female demon inside me. I remember the day when I finally said to myself, I can't fight this anymore. I was in the shower and I realized I would have to com clean. Sooner or later if I keep on this way, I will get caught. It took me a few months.... I began showing little more fem things, I started shaving my legs.... dropping small hints. I would say something a little off the wall. One night, one of those little comments went just a little too far. Then, bam, the discussion was on and I revealed it.

In hindsight, me not telling her was wrong. I have always preached about how wrong it is. Wrong for them, wrong for us. It causes so much pain, anxiety. distrust, communication issues. The list of negatives can be endless. If only I had been upfront since early on. Who knows what would have happened. My wife today says she does not know exactly how it would be. She doesn't know that she would have married me or not. .We had known each other for 20 years prior to getting together. What is certain had I told her is that we would have at least been friends and there would have been honesty. Perhaps our relationship would have grown still. Perhaps she would have married me anyway. She would have done so knowing and it would have all been so much easier then 3 and a half years into the relationship, 6 months into the marriage. The only issue we would have had is the CDing itself, and by the time we got married, that would have been figured out as well. The last 3 years has been a hard time of trust rebuilding, and re establishing our marriage as to who I really am, and how she deals with it. There is now some increased insecurity on the marriage lasting. We love each other, for that there is no doubt. She is confident that I will always love her and honor her, but, what the future holds is now less certain for her than it once was. Something that may never get back to from where the feelings of certainty was before the reveal.

Amy Lynn3

01-28-2016, 03:10 PM

This is may be the most accurate statement said today. There are too many flavors. We are not one size fits all!

Like you and Nicole said, we are not all one size and sorry to say, many will never understand that.

heatherdress

01-28-2016, 03:22 PM

I agree that it is usually best to be open and honest, but like every other issue we usually discuss, every situation is different and absolutes are simply not attainable.

We can't criticize all who feel they have to remain silent,from their spouses or SOs. We just don't know the circumstances that each person has to live with. We don’t know the risks of disclosure. We don’t even know whether a person realized they would continue to crossdress after they married and did not feel they had anything to hide early in their relationship. Although honesty, trust and open communications are very important for healthy relationships, circumstances and personalities can be quite different. Sometimes it might be better to remain secret, even with risk of eventual discovery, because there may be greater risks involved with immediate self-disclosure.

Anxiety and mental illnesses are unfortunately commonplace. Disclosure might be hurtful or not even possible with any degree of understanding or acceptance. Some spouses have strong religious convictions which would be very threatened and simple disclosure of an infrequent and private behavior might jeopardize the entire marriage. There are many other considerations that closet crossdressers might face that best keeps them in the closet, such as children, family, living quarters and career concerns.

We often hide other secrets from our spouses and loved ones. Many of us would not think it wrong to remain silent about our work worries, personal medical concerns, disappointments and internal fears and doubts. We often do not want to cause worry for those we love. Non-disclosure is typically admired in those circumstances and not considered lying, but we are always quick to belittle those who have to hide their crossdressing secret, even if they sincerely want to prevent certain hurt and pain. I think it is judgmental to criticize everyone who remains in-the-closet. Some really can’t or shouldn’t disclose their intimate secret.

I agree that openness is usually best, and that eventual discovery often is more hurtful. But not everyone can tell their spouses they like to wear panties, or that they occasionally need to wear a dress, because their consequences would definitely and immediately be significantly worse than remaining silent with risk of possible discovery.

bok4fun

01-28-2016, 03:35 PM

Dr. Heather is in the house! Very well put!

CallmeAlice

01-28-2016, 06:10 PM

I don't see why they would keep it a secret before they get married, yeah if they start after marriage that's one thing.
I told my current girl friend before we began dating and it was one of the best decisions that I've done honestly. It made our relationship even more open, even as friends.

If you're going to marry someone wouldn't you want to be completely honest with them even before marriage. I don't know why this should be a secret from the love of your life.

Jenniferathome

01-28-2016, 06:34 PM

I disagree with all this "one size doesn't fit all" nonsense. We ALL didn't or don't tell because we are afraid and ashamed. It's just that simple.

The "divorce" reasoning as an explanation for not telling is complete crap. But it does make for a great excuse to not admit your are afraid and ashamed.

Stephanie47

01-28-2016, 06:49 PM

Well, I've been reading threads and comments on the site for years. I think this subject has been beaten to death. And, I suspect you already know the answers that will flow forth. I will not deal with the issue of disclosure before a relationship gets serious.

How about all those relationships I've read about in threads where there has been full disclosure prior to getting serious or marriage where the wife does a complete turnaround? "Hey, I know this is our first date, but, I have to tell you that I love wearing women's clothing, a wig and makeup and going out for strolls and shopping!"

"Oh, you're OK with that! It's cool! Boy, am I happy. All the other women I've dated just ran off yelling "queer, yuck" or something else to degrade my manhood. You're a gem."

Here comes the bride. The I DO's are said. They live happily ever after.....NOT!

Sure, we have heard it time and time again, and, we'll hear it tomorrow too.

Rant is over.

donnaS

01-28-2016, 06:55 PM

It's easier to push someone away or divorce than disclose what might haunt you socially the rest of your life.
I was threatened with that after my divorce before I remarried. Yes, she had pictures for proof. So no, I didn't want to tell anyone again. Trust issue I guess.
Plus, the CD thing will go away if you ignore it right? Didn't work for me.

Sky

01-28-2016, 07:12 PM

Everybody lies...

No wonder your signature includes a House quote. :D

Besides, I agree with you. Marriages are about more than the way we present ourselves. And if marriages were to break every time one of the components lies, the divorce rate would be 110% (percentage is correct, it's used by NBA and NFL players all the time)

jeank

01-28-2016, 07:14 PM

When I met my current wife, CDing wasn't part of my life, so there wasn't anything to discuss or disclose.

It was the early 1980s

In the 1970s I'd been through all sorts of "over the edge" experiences and CDing was just one of several that came with having an exploring mind. Part of that was my first marriage - we explored lots and and even went out several times dressed as sisters, but at the time it was just a gas - something outrageous to do. We explored lots of things to challenge conventional norms, and also were heavily into mind bending substances. I reformed looking for a different direction, really just looking for a life direction, and we split. Very amicably as we realised we had different paths to follow.

It was a number of years after meeting my current partner that the CDing came back. We had kids by then. She is from a very different background and not the adventurous sort at all.

In some ways I would love to "come clean" - there are a lot of old secrets I've been able to share with her, but always at what I have felt was the right time, when she has said something to make me think she would be accepting - I haven't always been right however, but we've got over it as it was something in the past.

CDing has not yet felt like the "right time". It may well never be. So I stay in the closet.

Why?

Well it really has to do with protecting someone else's feelings. I'd really like to think that if I found the right time, then we could share it, and all would be Hunky Dory .

But what if I am wrong? Well, we've been together for over 30 years and she has her whole life invested in a relationship. What if it was something she just couldn't handle? Is my need really that important? Can I actually manage to suppress the feelings for the greater good?

Who knows? Certainly not the people here who seem to claim that being in the closet is morally wrong. The risk in coming out is that I make someone who has been a life partner very unhappy. Do I want to take that risk? Or is it better for me to have to suppress something and suffer myself?

Folks, there are no right and wrong answers - we all have our own circumstances and as they say, you can't put the genie back in the bottle.

Sharing with your SO is a decision that each individual must make for themselves. And PLEASE for those who have shared successfully, don't pose as saints whose way is the only true path. Because the risk in coming out is to cause a lot of pain for someone you may actually care about. There is a balance between a desire for openness and a desire for self. Yes, we only have one life to live, but so does our SO. And they may not want an unhappy ending.

So I only get to enjoy dressing when I feel it is safe and I'm not going to cause hurt (and I really do indulge at those times). Is there a risk of causing hurt through accidental discovery? Yes. But is it a bigger hurt risk than disclosing?
.
No right and no wrong. Please don't judge those of us who remain closeted. We have our reasons and they may just be very valid. And very loving.

bok4fun

01-28-2016, 07:17 PM

Reading comprehension is obviously a lost art!

fiona frisson

01-28-2016, 07:39 PM

Jeank

thanks for your candid and wise reply and showing that in some instances non-disclosure is an act of caring - ultimately even with our closest soul mates we have some distinct and individual traits - we are all unique

Fiona

Steph_CD_62

01-28-2016, 07:57 PM

I knew who I was and what I enjoyed doing BEFORE I met my current wife.
I told her within a week of meeting her about my crossdressing.
I figured either she would accept me for who I am, or she would leave. We have been together for 14 1/2 years and married for 12 1/2 years. I never wanted it to be a surprise for her later.

claudiaxander

01-28-2016, 08:17 PM

"hi! you're beautiful! and before i say anymore and to avoid either of us wasting our precious time, i have to tell you i like dressing like a woman. So if you find my honesty disturbing it's ok to look the other way and i'll leave you alone to this starry night."
23 years 2 kids and so many wonderfully intense loving moments later and we are happier than ever.
that's how i found my tall blonde Scandinavian love of my life.
i made a firm decision early on to ignore most social norms that unfairly conflicted with my innate desire to reveal truth at all costs and have found society slowly coming around to my way of thinking. i cant understand why people decide to get together whilst hiding their true self unless you believe this is just a read thru. i know life can be hard but you must bend it to your will less it breaks you.

franlee

01-28-2016, 08:19 PM

Laurana, I tend to agree with you. I found nothing offensive in your observations. I have personally adhered pretty closely to to these points. I have also found that the best therapist is an honest exchange between the 2 people involved. And for personal issue honsety with a mirror. Outsiders are not vested that is true but I aint in the habit of trusting anyone but me or my wife with our business personal or financial. I learned long ago everyone has advise and opinions and just like porta-potties some stink worse than others and none are my own.

Lori Kurtz

01-28-2016, 08:50 PM

Why do we lie to our spouses? I don't think most of us start out with that intention. Speaking only for myself--although I suspect that many others have an experience like my first marriage--I was totally enthralled by the woman I was planning to marry, and although I had a long history of crossdressing, I thought that my marriage would be the end of the crossdressing. I expected that I would never be dishonest with her about anything (except by omitting any discussion of what I felt was a shameful part of my past). But then things happen: conflicts and difficulties arise, and neither she nor I dealt with them as effectively as we should have. And little by little, I toyed with some old ways of finding pleasure and satisfaction. Influenced by my own long history of shame about my crossdressing, I was certain that my wife would not respond well to finding out about my it. So little by little, and more and more, I lied. To all of my failures in this regard--the things that I did that I shouldn't have done, and the things that I failed to do that I should have done--I plead guilty. My second marriage was different. The failure of my first marriage, which was primarily because of my crossdressing and my dishonesty about it, was a searing emotional experience for me. That pain helped me to make a commitment that I could actually keep in my second marriage. I never dressed up again, even though the fantasies never stopped. I know that for many, that's not a viable approach; we're all different. I'm just trying to respond to the original question about lying and why I did such a destructive thing.

mykell

01-28-2016, 08:55 PM

honey i ve got suntun to tell you !!!

what did you forget to take out the trash again….

no, no, no ,no. I'm a crossdresser,….

oh i was just reading in crossdresser daily, article about the caitlyn affect…what kind of crossdresser are you…

huh, i dunno, their are different kinds ????

why yes dear many, many, are you just a crossdresser, crossdresser, or you just do it cause the clothes feel good, or maybe a fetish crossdresser cause you like feeling sexy and get a little too excited, or like a drag dresser to entertain.....

well i thin I'm just a normal crossdresser, not one or those weird or gross ones ???

are you sure, you may be one of those crossdressers that are not gay but fantasize about being with another man while dressed…could it be that….or maybe, maybe just maybe your gender fluid and want to be both a man and a women, is that it ???

well I'm kinda not too sure now !!

how about pansexual or bisexual, as long as you present the way your feeling that day….

absolutely not, not that ….. but maybe if arrrghhh how do i figure this out i just came to terms that I'm a crossdresser, now I'm second guessing, i feel like i in denial again…

are you one of those crossdressers that is two years from having a sex change…….?

NOT that definitely not that…its just dressing, just clothes….

I've read it happens, are you sure, you know that technically your transgender, its an umbrella term….

NO there is NO way I'm transgender, I'm a man that dresses in women's clothes that all !!!! its perfectly normal, nothing odd about it at all !!!

then you want a DADT relationship, we wont talk about it and you'll assume your free to dive into the pink fog and assume you can do whatever you want because now i know about the dressing and thats the way i think i can best deal with it.

you know about the pink fog ?? ok if thats what you want, it sure beats a divorce, losing my job, finding out who my real friends and family are…..feeling more guilt and shame than i ever did maybe even contemplating ending it all…….yea ok lets go with DADT…..

are you kidding me….wait while you join a forum, post suggestive pictures of yourself put other crossdresser down cause they don't do it right, hang around for two years while you decide how far you go down the spectrum only to find out you knew you wanted to be a women your whole life and could only decide after spending our savings on therapy and buying thousands on girly bits only to decide to go on HRT and find a highly recommended surgeon….do you think i have that kind of patience….

maybe i should have thought this out more…

yea maybe you should have thought this out better, you thought it was going to be easy…blah blah blah…look I'm wearing panties and heels, pretty neat huh…. hears my attorneys card…..im taking the house car and the kids….

yep its easy to judge someone you not looking directly in the eye, I've always believed this is NOT a one size fits all community, can you really judge someone before you walk a mile in they're heels,

your morals and philosophy may differ but it gives you no right to judge someone if there beliefs are not in line with yours,

rant over

grace7777

01-28-2016, 09:15 PM

First of all I want to state my post does not address people who are already married.

If you are getting into a serious relationship with someone then I believe you should disclose the fact the you are cd/tg. Actually the sooner you disclose the better. As we have seen on this board, a lot of problems have been caused because of non disclosure before marriage.

As to the point that if you disclose she will out you to everybody in the community. If you have this low level of trust in a person then you should definitely not get into a relationship with that person. Why get into a relationship with someone you have doubts about.

It seems a lot of people get into a relationship thinking that they will stop dressing en femme (cold turkey) and never do it again. This seems to me to be a very dangerous gamble. People have quit to only see the desire come back a year, 10 years or 20 years later. If you are thinking of persuing this path, then you should definitely get counseling, and I would add someone who understands gender issues.

For a lot of us being cd/tg/ts is just part of who we are. If it is part of who you are, is it worth sacrificing who you are for a relationship. Also if it is a major part of who you are then being able to suddenly quit permanently is not likely to be successful over the long term.

For me I have decided that I am not going to sacrifice who I am just so i can have a relationship. There is just no one on this earth worth that kind of sacrifice. I have come to the conclusion that having a committed relationship is not going to be a part of my future. Even if a partner initially is accepting, that is no guarantee that they will continue to be accepting. Often times someone can be accepting in the beginning because they want to keep the relationship alive as much as you do, but then you get married and they become non accepting.

The fact is that in life we cannot have it all. Often, sacrifices have to be made. So it comes down to priorities, and I think my priority is to be true to myself. If I were to sacrifice my tg/ts self then I would be miserable and very unhappy. This is just not a healthy way to live.

To marry someone else without disclosure is potentially subjecting someone else to a life they did not sign up for. To me it is really selfish to not disclose.

If you decide to get into a relationship with someone and marry them, then I think it would be best to be fully out to everyone. Often times it seems a spouse becomes less accepting because they are worried about what family, friends, acquaintances and neighbors will think. Being fully out you eliminate this from becoming an issue. Also, you need to be dressed en femme in front of them often and also while out in public with them, so you can determine how truly accepting they are.

In conclusion, I have to be who I am, and I cannot sacrifice this for a relationship. Making this sacrifice would not be good for me or the person I would potentially be entering into a lifetime relationship with. Also disclosure which can be bad for the short term in losing a relationship will be great for the long term when you avoid a messy split up and divorce.

shawnsheila

01-28-2016, 10:23 PM

I don't believe it is as simple as saying the CD is bad for lying/hiding it from your SO.

I think most of us agree that is is better to tell the difficult truth to our SO then hide it and hope they wont find out, but to toss all CDs who have some type of fear or anxiety to tell their SO into a "you're a lair and deserve what you get" is inaccurate for all and a bit too extreme a position in my opinion.

There are many factors that would prevent a CD from disclosing such an intimate detail so openly or even easily... Just think about society... there are still laws in the USA that allow the local government to toss CDs into jail just for being dressed and it wasn't that long ago, in our life times, that this was illegal in most states... Also consider the social ramifications for young CDs/TGs being thrown out and homeless because family/community rejection (especially in the more conservative/religious groups) not to mention the violence against CDs that still takes place to this very day. Add all of this on top of potential job loss and social embarrassment if an SO decides to "punish" you for sharing this intimate detail with them. Some CDs dind't even know what they had of if something was wrong with them or even if it was something they could possible control/remove from our lives... to expect a CD to know exactly why they are doing it and to be sure they disclose it to their SO when they may not even know what it is themselves!? Heck, the science behind TG and CD is still very early, how can a CD be expected to know if this was something they could not even "cure" and lead a "normal" life with their SO? This is just to tip of the iceberg. If you are one who is not capable of even considering these as potential risks to the CD then it is just sad. To have other CDs come down on those who fear risking these types of results... It's just sad.

If society was much more progressive and accepting of CDs/TGs than it would be a different story but to claim a CD "deserves" some sort of punishment for protecting their very life is a bridge too far in my opinion... we need to be more considerate of each other and hear out why a CD chooses to keep it a secrete instead of standing in an ivory tower of personal SO acceptance and pointing the fingers at other CDs who are in very different and potential dangerous situations.

So before anyone drops scorn on CDs/TGs for not disclosing all details of their life to an SO, please consider some of these stats and stories we see very often and try to be more understanding/open to why som CDs/TGs fear telling their SOs... Sure we all agree it is fair, right and proper for the SO to know so they can make a decision that is right for them but also know they too are a product of society, which can be potentially dangerous to us in many ways:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/news/transgender-violence/

http://www.transequality.org/issues/non-discrimination-laws

http://americablog.com/2012/11/advice-columnist-advises-woman-to-divorce-transgender-husband.html

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/arresting-dress-timeline-anti-cross-dressing-laws-u-s/

Let's try to be more compassionate for each other and try to hear why some CDs choose to keep it a secret from their SOs and possible offer sound advice depending on their circumstance and not toss them to the side... society does that enough already.

Judy-Somthing

01-28-2016, 11:07 PM

It's not a lie if no one asks.

My wife made a statement two weeks ago " you probably have dresses hidden someplace" I said ya a nice wedding dress.

She never asked if I had dresses hidden.

Well I bought three dresses this week and since she didn't tell me she bought Burger King I feel I don't have to tell her about the dresses.

SharonDenise

01-28-2016, 11:23 PM

I told my wife while we were still dating. She accepted and supported my cross dressing for the 40 years of our marriage. She is now in heaven, God bless her soul. I am now hoping to find another to share my life with. I intend to disclose my predilection for wearing woman's clothes in any relationship that gets serious. I'm too old to beat around the bush with this issue.

giuseppina

01-28-2016, 11:46 PM

If you have to sneak around doing something then you probably shouldn't be doing it. I'm one of the lucky ones that doesn't have the dressing problem-ever.
Jon

That only comes close to applying if the relationship is healthy. Otherwise, all bets are off.

Following advice from regulated professionals (including medical advice) routinely gets me into trouble unless I have arms-length proof of necessity and correctness.

Jackie7

01-28-2016, 11:50 PM

Well we can't go back and redo whatever we did. The pain in this thread staggers me. I've told my story here before but I think it's relevant again in this thread.

In my first marriage there wasn't much to disclose, she knew I liked lingerie, and 30 years and three kids later when it all came unstuck, my steadily growing and stealthy cd habit became the "problem" but we both knew it was just the tip of the iceberg, one of many many issues that had come to divide us. We had grown apart, we each had run out of sympathy for the other's problems, we divorced, messily and expensively and tediously.

Burned to the quick, aching and despairing, I resolved that my transvestism could not be the issue ever again, it was too close to my core. I started going out pretty in NYC two or three days a week, looking for events, bars, classes, meet ups where I might find friendship and acceptance. A year into that (2002), dressed as best I could in those days, I accepted an acquaintances' casual invitation to a cocktail party and there met a woman who found me interesting, who became my girlfriend, and who in 2010 became my dArling wife. Out from the start, no secrets. All in.

My bet was, if I keep it a secret, I'm hoping to win the lottery, but I understand the math only too well. But if I am out with it, then I am treating the women I meet as adults who can make their own judgements, provided they have full information. I get the issue of truth and trust off the table in the first place, it's just static anyway. And guess what, I won.

Doors close, doors open. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. I dunno.

mechamoose

01-29-2016, 12:21 AM

Lying is bad, ummkay...

It only leads to distress and woe. It WILL come out sooner or later.

If you are hiding that big of a truth from your partner, are they really your partner?

Not to contribute to lawyer's fees or anything, but jeez.. What did the poet say?

To thine own self be true, and it must follow, as the night the day, thou canst not then be false to any man.

- William Shakespeare

- MM

- - - Updated - - -

thanks for your candid and wise reply and showing that in some instances non-disclosure is an act of caring - ultimately even with our closest soul mates we have some distinct and individual traits - we are all unique

Yes, we are. If you were an axe-murderer, hiding that would also be an 'act of caring'. After all, you don't want to spook the Missus, eh?

Cripes, people. Stop making excuses for keeping it hidden. You are only going to hurt them anyway when it all spills out of your closet... and it will spill out eventually.

BE YOURSELF

I heard the same excuses from closeted gay folks back in the day. It wasn't any better then. It didn't help then either. It still blew things up when it came out.

The destructive force is only making way for the creative one that follows. (Kali - Hinduism)

/love you anyway

- MM

sometimes_miss

01-29-2016, 12:54 AM

Amazing, all the people on this thread who assume that what they think's true for themselves, MUST be true for all other people. That would be like me declaring that:

Not a single crossdresser was born that way. I know, because I wasn't. So it's not possible.

Or even better, "As oranges develop that great, sweet orange taste, they develop a lovely orange color. It's true for oranges, so it must be true for everything". So, if I put on that self tanning lotion, and I start to turn orange, I, too, will have a sweet, orange flavor'.

Or, how about nose picking? Can anyone here say that they have absolutely NEVER put a finger past the opening in their nostril for any reason? EVER? OK. Now go put a sign on your car telling everyone that you are a nose picker. After all, you did it once when there was a whistling snot you couldn't blow out, right? Tell the world. No qualifiers; no 'I only did it once', 'I only do it if something is obstructing my nostril'. Just tell the world that you are a nose picker. Gotta be honest, right? Tell everything you've ever done. Ever pee on a tree? Tell that too, that you pee outdoors on trees. Doesn't matter if you haven't done it since you were a kid. You're a tree pee-er. Ever spit? Ever? Tell everyone that you like to spit. Ever think about what it would be like to give oral to a guy? Tell everyone that you think about male male oral sex. Remember, no qualifiers, you think about homosexual sex, doesn't matter if you only thought about it once when you were 15 and confused. Everything you did 40 years ago defines who you are today. Everything. Now go write your biography, and don't leave out anything. It's going to be bigger than an encyclopedia.

The amount of nonsense I read here sometimes astounds me.

We didn't tell them because to us, it no longer had anything to do with who we were at that point in our lives, or who we would be for the rest of our lives. What is so hard to understand about that?

mechamoose

01-29-2016, 01:11 AM

Amazing, all the people on this thread who assume that what they think's true for themselves, MUST be true for all other people.

What is true to you is true to YOU. Your truth does not effect what my world is like.

I say what I say based on MY life. My wild, odd, cross-gendered, poly-amorous, pagan-hippe life.

But that is what I have to say.. maybe that rings with people, maybe it doesn't. I may be criticized, I may be mocked. However, if that makes ONE life better then it was worth it.

<3

- MM

Dana L

01-29-2016, 01:30 AM

I never really lied to my wife. When we were dating I thought my crossdressing was in the past and needn't be brought up. Fast forward 10 years when I started dressing again. I slowly brought my desires to her attention. She wasn't all for it at first but figured it was just a passing fantasy. Fast forward another 16 years to today. She is totally ok with my dressing and is open to me someday fully transitioning. I don't think we would have ever got to this point if I had lied to her or hid it from her.

LilSissyStevie

01-29-2016, 02:57 AM

Don't you read other people's comments at all?

Never let a few facts destroy a great theory!

Kimberley May

01-29-2016, 03:03 AM

It seems it's only the ones who were lucky enough to tell and have the support are the holier than thou's who believe one size fits all, to come out with it regardless of consequences, because they seem to think "I'm alright Jill, as I'm now a special out and loud and proud professional CD'er which automatically gives me higher opinions over those losers still in the closet"..... Um, nah!

Why tell a new girlfriend before you even get to know her?, that to me sounds very foolhardy. She might turn out to be the worst most untrustful person to keep such a personal secret, and before you know it all her friends will know and possibly your friends and family, gossip is like a nasty spreading virus. Not every ex GG can be trusted to keep that secret. Not everyone's family and friends will be automatically accepting. Maybe the CD'er will be totally ostracised and labeled a pervert by many. Maybe their life will actually be made tougher rather than easier. So not everybody should be forced into being loud and proud about it just because it worked for others. One size does NOT fit all. It's arrogantly naive to assume it does. Sometimes honesty is not always the best policy.

I only plan telling her IF I know that she will be supportive and would never tell, otherwise I will keep it secret. And if we move in together, well that will be my conscious choice knowing she wouldn't be supportive if she knew, which means I will give it up for her. That would not be denial, it would be acceptance of the situation. What's wrong that that?

Dinky39

01-29-2016, 04:42 AM

Judy-Something.... Seeing as your wife didn't tell you she bought burger king,you didn't feel the need to tell her you bought 3 dresses. Are you for real????
The lies&the bs i hear on this site astounds me. I read this somewhere 'crossdressing is a selfish behaviour'. And it is. Seems to me many men don't give a toss about the wife/gf as long as they get their 'fix' by dressing as a woman.

mechamoose

01-29-2016, 06:07 AM

It seems it's only the ones who were lucky enough to tell and have the support are the holier than thou's who believe one size fits all, to come out with it regardless of consequences, because they seem to think "I'm alright Jill, as I'm now a special out and loud and proud professional CD'er which automatically gives me higher opinions over those losers still in the closet"..... Um, nah!

Umm, no.

I'm not 'holier than thou', I'm a guy with two marriages under my belt, two poly relationships, several 'open' play partners, and a lot of broken things. I have experienced what will work and what won't. I'm just trying to be pragmatic and honest. This isn't a crusade (although you could rightfully hang that on me for some posts) I'm just trying to be direct. I have had the luxury of being able to be free with myself, and sometimes things -still- broke.

My message is more that 'honesty is the best policy'. If you need to hide that, well.. not much more I can say.

The more of us who were out there and didn't care, the less we would have to be afraid.

As far as the 'new girlfriend' idea.. why are you out in the world presenting as your genetic gender if that isn't who you are?

That is kind of my point.

BE GIRLY if that is who you are. Don't present in a way that is alien to how you feel. You know, wear some pink or purple. Show some 'soft'. Don't win that partner all butched up and then be surprised when they flip about your girl side.

You need to be yourself BEFORE you engage them that way, or else it isn't fair to THEM.

"To thine own self be true"

PM me if you want. This is all true and I stand by it.

- MM

Kimberley May

01-29-2016, 06:48 AM

As far as the 'new girlfriend' idea.. why are you out in the world presenting as your genetic gender if that isn't who you are?

But my genetic gender is who I am too. I never said I wasn't. I'm perfectly happy being in drab guy mode too. I've had no identity issues with it and still don't. I guess this alter ego is to get away from things for a while. To be someone else. It has a strange calming effect on me I can't explain why. Maybe it's the feel of the softer fabrics, and feeling closer to femininity as I lacked female company for much of my life. Nothing really to do with wanting to change my genetics.

As I said before this isn't "a one size fits all" thing. Not every CD'er wants to change their genetic gender. I will only tell her if I find she will be understanding and accepting, otherwise I won't tell her and I'll give it up. Doing so isn't being in denial, it's just unselfish acceptance of a situation in consideration for her. As I said I've had no desire to change gender for real. I'm still very much quite emotionally attached to my meat and two veg, and women.

mechamoose

01-29-2016, 07:06 AM

I'm the cheerleader for cross-gender presentation. (i have the pom-poms and everything) I don't WANT to change gender, I just want to be who I am. I'm a big bull male with a girl inside. Despite Igor's advice, I totally support 'crossing the streams', which is again part of my point.

This isn't about 'her' or 'him', regardless of who your partner is. it is about YOU.

BE GIRLY if that is who you are. Don't present in a way that is alien to how you feel. - Me

Been there, done that, have the T-shirt.

Consideration for what? Safety? Convenience? Propriety?

Not snark. Honest questions. I'd be interested in your answers KM. I want to understand.

<3

- MM

Nothing is safe.

Patrica Gil

01-29-2016, 07:27 AM

After being with someone for thirty years who was DADT and ended up leaving me in the end anyhow I knew it was time for a change. Being truthful with women has been a good thing. Some chose to be friends and oddly enough I met a wonderful person who loves me for me. If a woman doesn't want me for me then she really doesn't want me. Hey women want to be loved for who they are don't they?

Katey888

01-29-2016, 10:33 AM

As I said before this isn't "a one size fits all" thing. Not every CD'er wants to change their genetic gender. I will only tell her if I find she will be understanding and accepting, otherwise I won't tell her and I'll give it up. Doing so isn't being in denial, it's just unselfish acceptance of a situation in consideration for her. As I said I've had no desire to change gender for real. I'm still very much quite emotionally attached to my meat and two veg, and women.

Kimberley, I think you've described aspects of a lot of us here - particularly those of us still secret-squirrelled away from our wives or SOs.

Unlike the assertions of our more dogmatic and less sophisticated members, there are all sorts of reasons that people hide aspects of themselves before and during relationships. Like you, I have no desire to change from what I am today - I don't deny what I am, but I do have a sneaking suspicion this desire may burn itself out in the future, so why reveal something that - for me - may become a non-issue, just more history?
In addition, I know my wife (the situation is a little different with first time BF/GFs) - I know she sees eye-to-eye with a lot of less liberal policies and has some very nimbyist views of sexuality and gender issues. I have little doubt that she would neither understand nor seek to understand why I feel the way I do, and why should I put her through a massive, personal upheaval if there are only a few years (perhaps months! :eek:) of my desire to dress remaining...? Add to that the fact that she has a long-term disability that has the potential to make her seriously depressed and my greater consideration is for her psychological well-being rather than some fanciful ideal of being totally open. This ALWAYS depends on individual circumstances. Those who say it doesn't are just plain wrong and dogmatic. If you are somewhat less TG-lite than I am (ie. have a greater need to express - I admit I'm fortunate from that perspective) and you need to dress often, go out, go shopping, go to the theatre, restaurants, etc. and express your femme side more publicly for the affirmation that brings, then perhaps the pressures are more to reveal to an existing or potential SO.

But there are no absolutes here - my position reminds me of another great quote from 'House M.D." (whose writing really does capture some great observations of human nature):

Dr. Taub: "If you open your mouth one of two things happen, she either forgives you or leaves you. At best, you end up exactly as you were before. Wanting to confess is noble. It really is. Confessing when you know it results in distress and pain for the other person isn't noble, it's selfish."

MM: I know you have strong views on this - and this is one of those circumstances where I feel the differences in motivation of different segments of our community leads to a quite different perspective on behaviour. Right at the moment, I don't want to express this part of me all the time or even a lot of the time - even when that changes, I'm happy to just flip to the femme side for a few hours or half a day and then I'm equally happy to be back as 100% pure British Beef (:heehee: have to snicker at that..). Some of us need to have both aspects to flip-flop between and I think that is sometimes hard for everyone to understand: a need to express but never to be...

Both ways are valid... In fact ALL ways are valid if it suits your circumstances, values and ideals... :)

Katey x

Trishpdxcd2

01-29-2016, 12:43 PM

@Heatherdress - post #21

Well said Heather. The last thing I would do is add on to the shame and guild most cd's feel at some point by condemning them for not coming out to their so. It is a very difficult thing to do and for some who do come out, it does contribute to a break up. I came out this year and it is a work in progress. It is sometimes difficult to balance my feminine desire with my desire for my wife and being the man she married and wants. But so far so good....for the most part.

CONSUELO

01-29-2016, 12:49 PM

Because it is complicated is a cliche but true in this instance.

When we meet our future spouse it is often at an age when you don't really understand the strength of your cross dressing desires. As we go through life we change a lot. As a teenager I thought that cross dressing was just a substitute for a heterosexual relationship. It seemed to wane and I mistakenly thought it was just a phase. I told my SO before we married but she didn't think it was more than wearing a few feminine undergarments and at that time I was not interested in dressing fully.

So when we talk of honesty we have to remember that we often did not understand the real strength of our desire to cross dress or how it might change and become more intense with time.

Given the internet and forums like this, I may have had a greater insight and the "I am a transvestite" conversation might have been more useful and perhaps I would never have married. So honesty is not just a black and white issue for some as they just don't truly know themselves.

Of course it is always better to come out and tell the truth but what is the truth. At 20 years it might be "I just like to wear silky knickers from time to time", while at 40 it might be "I really like to dress fully as a female". Just look at the examples of men who lived their lives as heterosexual partners for decades before finding that they had latent homosexual desires that just grew stronger until they could not be resisted.

Yes, honesty is always best but to be honest we have to have an honest understanding of what we are and what we shall become and that can be difficult for some.

Abbey11

01-29-2016, 01:38 PM

Hi, I fall into the late category. I have always liked women's clothes and especially heels. The most I ever did as a child was try on my mothers heels and look at pictures of women's clothes in my mothers catalogues. I've always liked drag but as a spectator, it's something that others did and they look great, I'd never even been to a fancy dress party in any women's clothing, I'd never even thought about it. May be I'm slow at understanding myself but it wasn't until recently, last 6 years, that I had a ureka type moment and it dawned on me that there is no invisible barrier between me and the women's aisle.
Now I've been married for 17 years and teenage kids. I have always loved stilettos on women and my wife knows this. I thought I'd buy, no I had a very strong desire to buy some heels and told my wife I wanted a pair, may be not the greatest move just to come out with it so bluntly but apart from being a bit taken aback she let me trundle off to the shop and I came back with a pair of 4 inches heels, this further set her back as apparently she expected a lower heel, everything was fine for a day or 2 and then she came clean about how it made her feel and it wasn't good!! However we talked about it and since then she knows I have 1 or 2 pairs plus some knee high boots 1.5 inch heel that I bought while out shopping with her she did however state I wasn't allowed to wear them over jeans..... So no problem there. However at the time of my 1st heel purchase she did quiz me on was it just shoes or was it more and at the time for me it WAS just shoes. Now overtime it has blossomed into much more than just shoes as my avatar pic testifies to. I would love to tell her of my female self but not sure I can

Sorry for the ramble
Hugs
Abbey x

TanyaR

01-29-2016, 01:45 PM

As a GG/SO some of the responses on this post makes me so very angry and some just make me SMH....
We were married for 20 years, knew each other for almost 28 years, before I found her stash.
I get "the shame and guilt and fear". I get "the need went away when I got serious, but then came back later". I get the "she's so conservative she'd never understand". I get that some of you feel like you still have to hide this from your wife/so. In a perfect world, no one would give a crap about what clothes we wear or how we looked. If you are already married, there are some difficult decisions to make. If you are not married yet and in a relationship that marriage is in the future, I would hope you would make the decision to tell. We have the right to know what we are getting into and being honest up front is the only way to make choice. Once married, you take our choice away from us.

BUT please don't act like you are doing your wife/so this huge favor by lying to them. That you are making their life better by lying. All I can think when I read some of these responses is "just another man trying to control things". If you feel like you have to continue to lie, fine - it is ultimately your choice and your life. Just don't act like you are doing this "huge favor" for them by hiding this side of you and don't act all surprised when they find out and the consequence that will follow. Note: Him lying to me was the ONLY reason I even thought about divorce when I found out. I could get over the dressing part, but trying to rebuild the trust I had in him has been extremely difficult. That and the bouts of "Pink Fog".

Anne K

01-29-2016, 02:21 PM

I have known my fiance for 42 years. We have had a on/off romance all those years. 3 years ago we reconnected for good. Anbout a year ago, I decided to come out to her and figured that if she didn't like it, she was free to move on. It's the last thing I wanted, but I had to be fair. What surprised her the most was that she never knew all those years of friendship. In the end, she was completely supportive and has become a real partner. Sometimes, I think she is more enrolled than I am! Anyhow I agree with Laurana: honesty is the best policy. You might be surprised like I was, or you can have a life without the stress of a secret life.

Rachael Leigh

01-29-2016, 02:35 PM

My wife has known since we got married however I had not fully understood all about myself at that time and didnt really know how much and how far I was going to go with this, so while she has known the fact that I became more involved in my dressing has prob been just as bad or worse for her. Im not saying tell them from the beginning even though I do think its best, just make sure you are certain you know what you want from the relationship and you know enough about yourself and what this part of you means before you open up to your wife.

Lorileah

01-29-2016, 02:45 PM

We have the right to know what we are getting into and being honest up front is the only way to make choice. Once married, you take our choice away from us.

quote of the day....when YOU make the decision, you are saying your SO can't, either directly or indirectly.

Now I know some of you are saying MY (as in my ...Lorileah's) situation is different she's a TS. She has to be out and about. But let's go back in time. I was married, and I kept my dressing "in the closet" with my wife for many of the same reasons you all do. My job, my reputation, wanting to appear macho with friends...yes almost every one you guys cite. One small difference, my wife was the one who pulled me out, mostly because I would wander to heels and other clothes when we were shopping and she knew I wanted them. Even with that I stayed in a DADT relationship of MY doing. I didn't want to embarrass her (which by the way was her ONLY rule for me dressing and going out). Now move forward a bit. The first love of my life was dying of cancer and I was stressed to the max so what you all call the "pink fog" was strong and kept it at bay. You know what she did? (now realize she KNEW I was at least a CD0...she told me on several occasions to "put on a skirt" or "put on some hose" Nice, huh? Why did she do that? Because she knew early about me. It wasn't a secret to her.

OK moving on, I had a girlfriend and the almost first thing I told her was about "Lori". I expected that to end the relationship...and yet the first thing she said was "Let's go out together." So I am incredibly lucky? Or I only date incredibly tolerant women? Or just now having that secret made my life better...You choose. Hey, it worked for me.

I have lost both of those incredible women...that led me to stop "protecting" them from me...not the way to do it but I am now able, without fear of what would happen to them if I did "come out, to transition. Once again, not the way I would recommend you do it. Honestly I don't know how my wife would have handled that because she didn't get the chance. My GF would have been right beside me now encouraging me on...but she didn't get the chance either. Not their decision...it was ME being selfish. YOU don't know what is right for your SO...you are guessing and you have a good chance you are wrong.

CarolBrown

01-29-2016, 05:36 PM

I don't lie to my wife about cross dressing, I just won't tell her... I can keep my 'stash' well hidden in a place I know she can't get too, nor find...

I know my wife will not accept the fact I cross dress... I have dropped hints, that she hasn't acknowledged and made implied comments, but, again these aren't seen...

As far as I can cross dress with my wife knowing is things like women's jeans and possibly some tops. I have joked that I'll keep the skirts purely to wear around the house, which has gleaned the comment that she draws the line at me wearing skirts and dresses...

It simply is not an option, remember, we all know our SO's and what they're thoughts surrounding cross dressing are. We, who are in the closet are the only ones who can make the judgement call if we can tell our SO's and still have a working relationship. Counselling is all very well, but, it is not for everyone, some people close down completely in counselling sessions and so middle ground can never be found.

I would rather be fully closeted than risk my marriage...

heatherdress

01-29-2016, 06:40 PM

Lorileah - Sorry about your ordeals. You have had your share of pain. I also admire the two incredible women in your life, especially your wife who you lost to cancer. I am sorry.

Dinky39

01-29-2016, 08:09 PM

CarolBrown,is your wife not entitled to know who she is married to? And it is not a working relationship if you are lying through your teeth to your wife every day.

Marcelle

01-30-2016, 06:09 AM

Goodness me . . . can you say beat a dead horse, bring it back from the dead, beat it to death again . . . etc. etc. (Best Yul Brynner voice from the King and I) . . . so as not to be hypocritical I gladly admit to grabbing a stick and joining in the beat down :dh:

Folks you can wax poetic all you like about the nature of falsehoods, split hairs on what constitutes a lie, tell everyone what an awesome example of human kind you are because you told your SO but, in the end only one person has to live with their decision to tell/not tell their SO . . . . that is the person who chooses to tell or not tell and the ramifications which come from it. You know absolutely nothing about other people's lives here, what they go through, their relationship with their SO, the baggage they drag with them . . . so to imply they should be perfect like you and fess up seems a bit arrogant IMHO. I concede, there is nothing wrong with posting your own story about how you chose to come out to your SO and how well it went and encouraging others down a similar pathway with advice and personal experience. Heck you can shake your fist at the goddesses of the netherworlds and proclaim how wonderful it made you feel and what a positive thing it was . . . all good. However, once you meander down the pathway of insulting others by calling them liars (and yes the word was used here quite often) or implying by comments that people who don't tell their wives are just cowards or state that people don't tell because they are afraid to admit they are ashamed (again it was said by a member) . . . you crossed the holier than thou line IMHO. This would be akin to people who go out all the time telling folks they are just cowardly for not doing the same thing or, people who are out to the world saying "I did it, look it was easy, stop lying to yourself and accept who you are, stop being ashamed and tell the world" . . . we all know what a smack down this would bring from some of the same people who chose to insult others here.

Some folks here have a secret . . . they like to dress pretty now and then . . . shocker eh? :eek: However, once they finish, most put it away and go back to being a loving, caring partner, parent and decent all around human being. They are not hurting anyone and are doing this for a variety of reasons. Do they need to tell their SO? What is to be gained? So now the SO knows and goes into WTF land. It may go well (hands clapping, bells ringing and confetti falls ) or it may go extremely bad. Now we have what was once a great relationship destroyed because the person was shamed into telling. I know, I know some are going to say . . . " I object . . . it wasn't a great relationship because it was built on lies. Hmm, if the court pleases . . . was it a lie each time the accused was a loving caring spouse, partner, parent and all around good guy? Was he pretending to be a great person to hide his evil cross dressing ways? No, he had a secret thing he liked to do . . . dress like a woman on occasion. He never hurt anyone, he never ignored his obligations to his family, work or life in general . . . he just liked to wear pretty things. What is the evil he perpetrated? If you liked to go down in the basement when nobody was home and don a Pirate outfit and stomp about the house with a stuffed parrot on your shoulder "Yarr Matey !!!!" and it was your thing which makes you feel good, relaxes you but never wanted a soul to know, even your SO . . . should you tell her? I know someone is going to pipe up with "It's not the same thing!" :Angry3: Isn't it???? After all most here proclaim it is only about the clothes, feeling feminine for few moments out the day and then going on with their life. Pirate or woman . . . it is a fantasy persona. So why is that dressing like a woman is seen by some here as something so contentious that you have to tell your wife or you are lying? It's just clothes. The person is not out dating other folks, robbing banks, or a hundred other things bad people do . . . they are just dressing pretty for a few moments to quell an emotional need . . . end state.

Having said the above I do agree there are times where you need to come clean. The first instance is where dressing is becoming so consuming that you are ignoring you family and life to the point where your SO is becoming confused, upset. Or you are so far in the pink fog that you are spending like a drunken sailor (or Pirate :)) on shore leave to feed you obsession and your family is suffering monetarily. In these instances, people are clearly being hurt by your decisions and you have ceased dressing to relieve stress and are now acting irrationally to the detriment of your family. The other instance where I believe the person needs to come clean is when things progress to a point where the person is an emotional wreck if they cannot dress. This will bleed out into the relationship it other ways such as anger, resentment, depression. This was my personal experience in that it stopped being about the clothes and it is about being a trans woman. Oh, I didn't come out day one to my wife "Hey honey I am really a woman" it was two year long journey of self discovery but I did tell her immediately when I realized that I was becoming a miserable SOB due to my desires and not being able to express them. Again, she was being hurt by me emotionally because I was just plain mean. So yeah, you need to come clean if you are at that point.

I get it though, I am not going to change the dogmatic minds of some as you see things as only one of two ways (good/bad) with no room for points in between. That's your gig so enjoy it and feel free to express it. However, IMHO there is no need to shame others with your "I'm a good person and you are not" mantra. State your case, have your say but for goodness sake don't insult others in the process. Okay I relinquish the soap box . . . sharpen your knives and have at it. :)

Cheers

Marcelle

TaraGrace

01-30-2016, 09:24 AM

Thanks all, this (and a few other threads) are a good read!

There.. just wanted to start of with a positive (and hopefully end on one too) :)

I understand a lot of you somewhat better now, which is great as we don't have to agree but a certain level of understanding and respecting peoples views is something I try to always do.. so as beaten as the subject may be, please keep it coming :)

So I have learned a lot, but the one thing I do have trouble accepting is those knowing fully who they were at the time of partner selection and at that point willingly hide their femine side due to the reason it is otherwise hard to find a partner.. I doubt I will ever understand this.. for short term sex ok.. for relationships of short to mid term, I'll stretch my values a bit..ok.. but for mariage or any form of long term relationship, sorry no, I don't get it and doubt I ever will.

Generalising I do find reading this (and other threads) that a lot of you in a hidden relationship (for whatever reason) do not come over as happy about the situation.

Searching for a silver lining, I hope younger and/or single crossdressers find themselves perhaps advised to learn more about what it is they seek in crossdressing before getting married, and to end my post positive, lets hope times keep changing for more acceptance and information for current and future generations. It might never get out of the taboo corner, but especially when reading posts from the older generation(s) it is comforting to know the internet and places such as this corner help.

x Tara

Nikkilovesdresses

01-30-2016, 11:19 AM

I don't see your views as harsh, Laurana, but they are black & white, and as we can see from the International Space Station, this is a world of rather lovely pastels.

bok4fun

01-30-2016, 12:39 PM

I just don't get it. I see a lot of "My SO/Wife found out and she's pissed" threads and I keep thinking to myself "Well what did you expect?". Seriously. What do you expect when it comes to light that you've been lying/hiding something from someone who thought they could trust you? Did you expect her to jump for joy? Quite honestly, to expect anything less than a total meltdown is delusional.

Read the above paragraph from the OP... How far off topic can so many people go?

It is specifically talking about what happens when the SO does find out, and I bet more of your SOs have an idea than most of you realize. It almost seems like many of you give your SO no credit for having a brain. They do notice things, and we all have little tells that we don't even realize. Many may ignore the first sign, or even the first few signs, as they don't want to think that something may be going on, but given enough signs, they begin to build a story in their heads, which may be far worse than reality.

Many of of you have said only you have to live with your lies, because nobody else knows. The OP is asking about those that do find out. And when the SO finds out, you have effectively, and without doubt, taken their choice away. All they know is that you have been lying to them for some period of time, and the assumption will be the complete length of the relationship.

Once this happens, with the exception of a very few lucky people, the relationship will be changed for the worse for the rest of time. If you truly believe a DADT relationship is a healthy relationship, I have a bridge I will make you a great deal on. There is nothing truly heathy about it. You are doing something your SO does not like, and wants nothing to do with, but for the sake of family, kids, etc, they are going to close their eyes and hope their nightmare goes away.

As as I have said before, this is not one size fits all. We all have different reasons for what we are doing here, whether it is the level 1 CD only looking for a quick thrill, all the way to the girls who have fully transitioned and living life they were meant to be.

If you are already in the relationship, you have made your bed, and get to deal with whatever happens if your SO finds out. But for those who are not in a relationship but looking for one, I think most agree that honesty is the best policy, and that it needs to be up front. I do understand there are a lot of excuses for not telling, but at the end of the day, when all hell has broken loose, they are just that, excuses. And very much like a certain body part, most people don't want to hear them.

i have lived both sides of the fence, from complete hiding to an open and accepting relationship. And my next relationship will be full disclosure and lots of discussion up front. There has never been a better time in history to have this discussion than now. As the OP says, the potential SO should have a choice, and only we can give them the information to make an informed choice.

Edit... I should add that there are a number of posts to this thread that I agree with. And many make good arguments for remaining in their current situation. But the question remains: What happens when Pandoras's Box gets opened.

sometimes_miss

01-30-2016, 12:40 PM

One small difference, my wife was the one who pulled me out, mostly because I would wander to heels and other clothes when we were shopping and she knew I wanted them.
^this is the most frequent mistake made by those of you who are already out to your mates; you tend to have forgotten what it's like to be on the verge of potentially destroying the relationship. It's not a 'small difference'. It a HUGE DIFFERENCE. Having lived through the disastrous effects of coming out after already being married for some years, I remember well what it was like. Again, we lose sight of the most important thing: WE haven't changed. Only their perception of us has changed, and perhaps their biggest disappointment is in that they weren't smart enough to figure it out earlier. If they choose to believe that we're suddenly completely different people, there's nothing we can do to fix that.

Edit: About the 'hiding something we know she wouldn't like'. As I've mentioned before, there are all kinds of things that people hide from their mates, stuff they feel isn't that important. Two more things that people routinely hide, are shoplifting and cheating at gambling. Suppose you learned early how to do card tricks, and it became very easy for you to palm and hide cards. So for years you cheated casually in games with your friends, co-workers, neighbors, not enough to rip them off, but enough so that you always never lost. Or if you learned how to shoot pool expertly as a kid, and occasionally go out with your friends, lose the first game by a little, then up the odds and win the next few, but by just enough so it seems you're not a hustler? You take advantage of other people. That would disturb your wife. Same if you cheated at any other game or sport. Do you tell? How about if your wife steals a nail polish or such once in a while? Are you going to feel better if she admits that to you, just so that she feels better? Or will you be happy living with a thief?

Amy Lynn3

01-30-2016, 01:34 PM

Marcelle, well stated. I try at times to get others to see the world of crossdressing is not black or white. Some feel it is, but your points are well taken and understood by me. I think everyone on the forum should consider what you have said with an open mind, yes, ever the gg's, especially the ones who feel betrayed or lied to.

Just a what if: What if a husband wanted to feel pretty, say two times a year and the wife finds out. She blows a head gasket...you lied to me. He says, I only was thinking of you. That did not fly with her. She wants out of the marriage. He has a job that provides well for them both, along with the kids. He has no faults, like running around on her. Now the marriage is over, lives ruined, maybe mental breakdowns. Who has done the bigger wrong or wants control of the life of an so ?

Just another what if: Same family as above. Same thing happens and the wife finds his small stash. She goes ballistic, but agrees to stay in the marriage, but she comes on the forum and berates the husband to no end. She makes the life of the husband not worth living, the kids suffer. He wanted to protect her and the family from the outcome of her knowing. He knew she would respond this way. Now which one has done the greater damage to the marriage and continues to do so, by running the husband down to the family, friends and forum members.

Like you Marcelle, my skin is thick, so I am waiting for the knives to come out.

Gerrijerry

01-30-2016, 01:42 PM

wow , you show how you really care about others who don't feel the same way you do.
I believe world war two had the same feelings toward others.
So many like you out there. Thank god the world is learning to accept others.
Live your life. Stop trying to live others who have problems you are not qualified to understand.

heatherdress

01-30-2016, 04:56 PM

For those who suggest non-disclosure or remaining in-the-closet is lying or living a lie:

- We hide fears
- We hide shortcomings and inadequacies
- We hide failings
- We hide minor and sometimes major medical issues and concerns
- We hide true feelings about in-laws
- We hide work problems and issues
- We hide financial worries
- We hide fears of growing older
- We hide fantasies
- We hide innocent attractions we might have about other women
- We hide true feelings about family, neighbors and friends
- We hide when we are hurt
- We hide doubts and at times, loss of faith in others
- We hide disappointments with our children
- We hide that we are not enthusiastic, or joyful or happy at times
- We hide that we drive by homeless people on street corners content that we donate elsewhere
- We hide that we smoke, and drink, and overeat, and cheat on our golf scores, and ignore reporting gifts on our taxes, and masturbate, and crossdress
- We hide a lot of stuff that maybe we should not

We are human, we are far from perfect, and most of us try to live our lives as best we can. But we don't have to feel we live a lie because we are weak, and have fears, and want to keep a personal, intimate behavior private.

Lorileah

01-30-2016, 05:16 PM

You hide health issues from your spouse? OMG. Very few parents are disappointed in their children. You hide your golf score...man that right there is reason for divorce.

Honestly the majority of your list effects YOU not your SO. And some what you say you hide that effect syour SO are just as bad as hiding your crossdresing. OH yeah, we don't reveal everything to our spouses. We don't reveal all our past to our spouses. That is understandable HOWEVER, and [put yourself in the other side of this too, things that DO effect your spouse should be part of their life...But you know what? Lying to your wife will get you that freedom you want. You over drink and hide it? You're gone from my life. You over eat and hide it? I will try and help you stop but you have to let me have that chance. Your SO cannot support you if you aren't open. Consider something you don't like or understand that your SO may do...let's choose drinking for fun. Wouldn't you like to know before they die in a accident? Go to Jail? Die of liver failure? Now I am in no way comparing being TG with compulsive self destructive disorders, but there are things, especially when you "know" your wife won't like that you have to suck it up and quit or accept the fact that when (yes WHEN) they find out, you are going to catch wrath, hate, fear, anger and loneliness like you never felt before. I have been on here 7 years. One of the first arguments when I joined was this argument. I was accused of being a liar by association because I was TG. Now I am not a saint, trust me, I have done things I wish I could take back in my marriage. No marriage is perfect. But when you lose TRUST, you lose the whole marriage. I used to compare it to the foundation of a house. When you meet, you have a plot of land. You start with a foundation, you build on that. Children, finances, love. But one secret from your spouse, like crossdressing, weakens that foundation.

Trust takes years to build and seconds to lose. And when you lose it you have to start from square one....and rebuild for years again. It will never be as strong though. I pray none of you lose that trust. I have been in the situation where I lost trust in someone. 5 years later I am getting over it but it will be there forever. You will NEVER feel a pain in your heart worse than that.

^this is the most frequent mistake made by those of you who are already out to your mates; you tend to have forgotten what it's like to be on the verge of potentially destroying the relationship. It's not a 'small difference'.

thanks for taking that TOTALLY out of context Miss. Let me rephrase since you must not understand what I said. I thought she didn't know. I wasn't dressing behind her back. SHE saw that I was looking at women's clothing and SHE is the one who brought me out. Could it have destroyed MY relationship? Probably not because she was an incredible woman. But at that point neither one of us knew what would happen. Had she not been perceptive who knows? 5 years later when she walked in on me in heels and a teddy....?

The "small difference" was SHE was the one who initiated the conversation.

I don't understand how you all here think dressing isn't a big deal. If it wasn't a big deal YOU WOULD NOT HIDE IT...NO? So if it's a big deal to you, it's a big deal to her.

seven years. seven years of this same argument. seven years of seeing X number of people come here and bemoan how their SO found out, how she threw them out, how they don't get why she would do that because after it it didn't effect her. How now they either have to give up dressing or live their lives alone. Seven years of seeing people post here that if you have the chance, telling EARLIER rather than later hurts a lot less in the long run. How many women will work a compromise if they get the chance to be involved. Do you all not read what the GGs have posted? The dressing isn't the issue...it's the loss of trust.

OK I give up. Next week there will be a thread about some poor soul who got caught.

TaraGrace

01-30-2016, 05:25 PM

How about if your wife steals a nail polish or such once in a while? Are you going to feel better if she admits that to you, just so that she feels better? Or will you be happy living with a thief?

Lexi, I think I understand what you're trying to say but it's an awefull wrong example.. if my SO would be a clepto I'd get her checked in for help.. if it was not compulsive I'd end things stealing is a big no-no for me. I do however have difficulties taking this example and comparing it to dressing up, as I believe that's not some decease that needs curing like cleptomania.

- We hide fears... ....want to keep a personal, intimate behavior private.

Sorry but that just made me think of "but officer, the car infront of me also drove through the red light".

Other then that, is the majority of that list really so hard to share with your partner that you have to hide it on purpous?
I mean, that for me essentially is living a lie.. lets pick any one on that list..

- We hide fears
Honey, I know spiders are tiny, but 8 legs just freak me out

- We hide shortcomings and inadequacies
Honey, I know I forget things, if it's important can you send me a reminder?

- We hide failings
Honey, I so screwed things up at work today, I need an hour or two and a beer to think things over on my own, tell you about it later,ok?

- We hide minor and sometimes major medical issues and concerns
Seriously? I'm not even going to give an example here.. not telling stuff like this is just beyond my imagination

- We hide true feelings about in-laws
Honey, you won't like it but I have to say this once: Your dad is a drunk and your mom is manipulative. I won't ever tell them, but I need you to know how I feel.

and so on and so on.. I don't see your point

VeronicaMoonlit

01-30-2016, 07:19 PM

I don't understand how you all here think dressing isn't a big deal. If it wasn't a big deal YOU WOULD NOT HIDE IT...NO? So if it's a big deal to you, it's a big deal to her.

You know what the worst lies are? The selfish lies of self-justification. I came out to my immediate family (Father, Mother, Sister) back in 93. You know what they said hurt them the most? My lack of trust in their love for me and that I'd judged them as being more judgemental and less full of love than they were. Even after coming out, I kept on doing some measure of the hiding behavior when I didn't need to, it had become a habit that I needed time to get over.

What you're seeing here is partly the dichotomy between what I call the "social" and "non-social" branches of the CD community. "Social crossdressers" feel too much commonality/feel some identification with women to keep this sort of behavior up long. But non-social strongly male identified older CD's stuck in that "Husband/Father knows best and what the little wifey doesn't know won't hurt her" mindset...they'll say or do anything to get their way. They've always had their way before, they're men, they're in charge. YES, not only am I using the "lie" word but I'm also using the "chauvinist" word. They're even not going to listen to the few SO's/Wives who post in these threads....after all "The man is in charge." The Lie of omission is easier, they get to have their way without doing anything.

It's what leads to DADT issues later on when the wives DO find out. Yes that's right, I'm calling you all out on DADT too. It's non-workable in the long term. Yeah not having a conversation between adults about "this thing of ours" is easier, right? You get to have your way without doing anything. But what happens when the little wifey retires....then what do we see. "Waaah my wife is going to retire and I'm not going to be able to dress anymore." Well if you'd HAD the conversation, you'd be dealing with it like adults and you'd still be able to dress because you'd have discussed the logistical issues of her not-seeing-it when you're both retired and actually negotiated the issues. Do you all want to end up like you-know-who, who recently quit these boards?

seven years. seven years of this same argument. seven years of seeing X number of people come here and bemoan how their SO found out, how she threw them out, how they don't get why she would do that because after it it didn't effect her. How now they either have to give up dressing or live their lives alone. Seven years of seeing people post here that if you have the chance, telling EARLIER rather than later hurts a lot less in the long run. How many women will work a compromise if they get the chance to be involved. Do you all not read what the GGs have posted? The dressing isn't the issue...it's the loss of trust.

Seven years, that's all? I've been seing this argument online since 1999. Yes, to all the "not-telling" crowd, I've been seeing the same selfish self-justification for 17 years. And no matter what some of us say about how telling earlier rather than later is better, you STILL don't listen. The lack of information in the past is no excuse. If memory serves me well, I remember a CD's SO discussing THIS VERY ISSUE on Phil Donahue or Oprah in the mid to late 80's. There were even BOOKS discussing THIS VERY ISSUE in the mid 80's (Peggy Rudds books) You just weren't paying attention to the changes in society that were already happening.

OK I give up. Next week there will be a thread about some poor soul who got caught.

There's at least one very selfish, self-absorbed CD on this very board, who got caught who STILL says that she'd rather her wife didn't know at all and that she'd have rather not got caught and has openly encouraged not telling. No, really. Of course, it was her own risk-taking behavior that led her to being caught because she obviously subconsciously wanted to be caught. This is why my signature line says: "Have I also not said that "This Thing of Ours" makes some of us a bit "Barefoot in the Head"? Well, it does. "

Now somebody is going to come along and say what I think doesn't matter because I'm not CD identified. Well for many years in the past I WAS CD identified and quite frankly, I know "This Thing of Ours of Varying Kinds" VERY VERY WELL. In other words. I know what I'm talking about, I've been talking about this issue before this site even existed. NOTHING here is new, I've seen it all before.

And for all you young folks, you don't have any excuse to not-tell at all. Not with all the information out there that tells you that not-telling is not a workable long term solution. So get your shit together and you wont' end up like the older crowd.

Veronica

mechamoose

01-30-2016, 07:58 PM

I'm skipping over a lot of great replies. I just wanted to address an issue that was brought up.

To me, I'm kind of wrecked up about the arguments over the idea that just because we used to be someone different means that provides cover for who we are now.

We all change. Life is change. The Wheel turns.

Changing is not an excuse for dishonestly. Change all you want, life happens. Don't believe for a moment that is an excuse for lying to the person you swore oaths to in front of an audience of your family.

Be up front and honest about changes in you, or else your partner -can't help you-. They can't protect anyone from a threat you have not identified. Yes, your changes are (or could be) a threat. TRUST your partner to have your back. If you can't trust that, then who did you make that promise to?

Trust, trust, trust

Don't lie, don't ever lie. It always ends up badly (I know, trust me)

They might not LIKE what you have to say, but if they love you, they will respect it.

- MM

TrishaTX

01-30-2016, 09:49 PM

I find the story the same in allot of cases...guy is young ...crossdresses...slows through High school but does it, gets bigger in college like years ...finds his love ventrally and slows to almost zero...over time increases in secret...has kids wife good job stuff...seethe picture? Its not so easy, you put this away in a box and it comes out later...by then it is hard to be just honest as you have been lying! you thought it would go away..
Yes I see her point of view...but this whole thing is not black and white

Lorileah

01-30-2016, 10:12 PM

by then it is hard to be just honest as you have been lying! you thought it would go away..
Yes I see her point of view...but this whole thing is not black and white We know your point, most of us have been through that...but NOW your dressing and sneaking and going out behind her back or what ever...it may be an old habit but every time you do it it's a new lie. Your argument is like saying you had affairs when you were 20...you stopped but now you wanna do it again (or are) but since you thought it went away it's OK because you used to do it. So you do it...and you pray your wife doesn't find out NOW.

C'mon people put yourself in her shoes. She thinks everything is fine...but you're doing something you believe she wouldn't like so you hide it hoping she doesn't. AND then you're confused when it all goes south? OK you die, she finds your stuff...you don't really care how she feels, right? See no matter when you get caught it's like you think it's easier to apologize. But think for a minute...she won't trust you ever again. You say you stopped on the way home because you needed something from the store....she thinks "he stopped to do something else". You say you have to go out of town for work, she thinks "He's dressing up and going out with MEN." How would you think if she broke your trust? It isn't the FACT you dress...it's the fact you don't trust her. You think she can't make a decision on her own (or you think it will ruin your already distrustful relationship). It comes down to the fact you don't think she can think and reason on her own. You never gave her the chance to. You guys assume she has secrets, she may, but I can promise if her secret was as big as yours you would be out the door in a heartbeat.

mechamoose

01-30-2016, 10:15 PM

Lorileah: +10

So.. put yourself on the other end. Your 'female' suddenly reveals that she was only lying to you, that she really wasn't who she said she was, and really was male all along. Sorry. You still want to share a pizza, right?

How would that make you feel?

Put yourself in those shoes, people. Don't believe for a second that your reasons are better than your partners.

That is quite self indulgent, and quite disappointing (At least to me)

Stop thinking about just what is easy for yourself. Seriously. Life is bigger than that.

- MM

TrishaTX

01-31-2016, 12:33 AM

[QUOTE=Lorileah;3888910] So you do it...and you pray your wife doesn't find out NOW.

To your point I agree and I have....it was a very stressful period....but today I am a better person and she is much happier...and we are together.

Launa

01-31-2016, 01:09 AM

Stephanie47

01-31-2016, 02:39 AM

Launa, you're really being judgmental tonight! Not telling one's wife about his interest in wearing women's clothing is akin to cheating on a wife through Ashley Madison? I think not! Sometimes ago back on 11/22/2013 someone said,

"Then said to myself one day I'll die and not have to deal with this shit. I don't wish to die but I hate this curse."

I suppose some are better able to handle this "curse" better than others.

AngelaYVR

01-31-2016, 02:56 AM

Marcelle

01-31-2016, 06:25 AM

Yes . . . it must be lonely living among the perfect beings of the universe.

I say it again folks . .. have your point of view, live by it, own it, espouse the benefit of it as it applies to you but, never assume to think your way is the right/only way . . . smacks of arrogance. We all make decision in life and guess what . . . they are ours to make not anyone else's'. Will other people get hurt? Probably but that is for the person to wrestle with . . . their demons to fight. We are not the guardians of perfection and doubt anyone of us can say we are leading a perfect and righteous life in which nobody gets hurt. Some choose to come out to SOs. I came out to my wife when I first gravitated here as CD and found support and love early. When I announced I was TS, she stayed with me. Does that mean it is going to all unicorns and chocolate cake for everyone? No, it can go really bad.

So for those trying to shame others into your way of thinking, how will you feel should someone take your advice, it goes bad and that person does something drastic to themselves or those around them. Right . . . you won't care because we probably will never know about it but, you can rest on your morality laurels and continue playing cards with goddesses of the universe and other perfect beings. Now before you say "Oh come on, that has never happened and you are being dramatic!" Am I . . . pick up the newspaper and you will find that when people have everything and it is suddenly ripped away from them, they are capable of doing very bad things in desperation. Yes, you can argue the SO might find out eventually or perhaps she/he will not. If the person can manage it, hurts nobody (it is just clothes right?) and continues to be a loving and caring partner, parent, person . . . what difference does it make if they like to dress pretty from time to time? You all seem to equate dressing as a woman as something of shame/guilt/perversion what an SO should know about because why . . . not manly enough for you. The stigma runs deep doesn't it?

Cheers

Marcelle

mechamoose

01-31-2016, 06:39 AM

Marcelle dear,

You have gone a route insanely challenging. I respect you like mad.

You could have lost everything you felt was important in your life, but there you sit. You took the risk, kept your spine stiff, and came out the other side. You won.

Members,

Truth is always going to end up better than lies. When a lie does come out (and it will) your secret will be viewed as betrayal. Yes, things may break, and break badly. So, what? You are being strong by sucking it up to spare them the risk?

Hiding a bomb doesn't spare anyone anything, I'd argue it increases the risk you are exposing them to.

If you're going through hell, keep going.

Winston Churchill

- MM

Marcelle

01-31-2016, 06:49 AM

Hi MM,

I don't disagree :) However, what I would not / cannot ever do is set myself up as the moral guardian of what is right and what is wrong. I have done way too much in my life which precludes me from such a title.

Each of us must travel the path set for us and learn from whatever mistakes we make. The one thing I have learned in my 50 plus years of life, the minute we force a person down a pathway (even with the best of intentions), should things go awry it is that person who suffers the torment, not us. I will dispense advice should someone come to me and is struggling with which way to go (tell/don't tell) and I will give them both sides of the outcome and yes, I will tell them that the potential for things to go well is there . . . but I would never, ever in a million years say . . . it worked out for me so it will for you or that they are a bad person for not telling. A gentle nudge in a positive direction . . . yes. An outright forced push . . . for me . . . a big no. :)

Cheers

Marcelle

mechamoose

01-31-2016, 06:59 AM

Please forgive me if I seem to be trying to force anyone to do anything. My intention is just to point out logical fallacies and to try and encourage people to put on your mate's shoes and look at it from their end.

<3

- MM

Marcelle

01-31-2016, 07:04 AM

MM,

No apologies necessary . . . it is your view and I have no issues with that. I just feel that advice dispensed only has merit if both sides of the argument are given and the person is left to make that decision. :)

Cheers

Marcelle

mykell

01-31-2016, 07:29 AM

Cowards and Liars..... Yes I am one of those individuals that have used these words in the past and I will stand here and say I own it. If your doing something behind your SO's back and it happened once then OK, it was a mistake say no more. If it happens all the time and you can't control it then buck up to the table and say it out loud.... For those of you that justify your lies well that's OK I guess, its up to you to check your moral compass and decide whats right and wrong. Just like having an affair on Ashley Madison

when you join here just by hitting the “complete registration" button to join takes courage !!!

comparing a crossdresser to an affair, coward and liar ????

lay out all your fears and inhibitions for the group to have at :devil: ( will you tell us next that you in fact turn water into wine, walk across crossdresser pond while it is not in a frozen state).....seems some moral compasses are tweaked up to 150%

those who told your wife, commendable, but look someone in the eye and judge them, a coward does it through a keyboard !!!!

does your boss know
does your neighbor know,
does your mom and dad know,
does you priest know,
does your drinking buddy know,
does your lawyer know,
does your doctor know,
does society know,

why not what are you a coward !!!!!

to much judgement from the general public has folks clambering for a safe haven from whatever ails them, then when they find a group of like minded to relate to and feel comfortable sharing themselves with and then those very same folks turn and judge them for the slight difference they may have,
maybe we can add some new forums down at the bottom of the page where they have more specialized forums....

Check out these other hot web properties:

“crossdressers who don't tell” ,
“crossdressers who arent gay if you want a man while dressed”,
“crossdressers that just like the clothes that sometimes stain theyre panties”,
“crossdressers who don't do enough for the community”,
“crossdressers that are just a regular crossdresser”
"crossdressers who dont have a clue how to crossdress"
"crossdressers that walk on water"
"crossdressers that hate caitlyn jenner"
"crossdressers that hate transgender"
"crossdressers that dislike sarcasm"
"crossdressers that dont participate"
"crossdressers that dont share pictures"
"crossdressers that are too crossdressy"

that list could go on forever......:straightface:

Launa

01-31-2016, 08:08 AM

@mikell
No just to clarify when I say there is a comparison to crossdressing and an affair its when you are going so far as having a stash of clothes, dressing when the SO is not around etc.. Coming on this site and trying to figure things out is not the same as an affair. And I'm not saying tell the world what you do at all!!!! Not your doctor, lawyer, accountant etc but the SO should know if your going that far. And yes I have done things that I would classify myself a coward and a liar too.

Me turn water into wine? I only wish I could!
- - - Updated - - -

Launa, you're really being judgmental tonight! Not telling one's wife about his interest in wearing women's clothing is akin to cheating on a wife through Ashley Madison? I think not! Sometimes ago back on 11/22/2013 someone said,

"Then said to myself one day I'll die and not have to deal with this shit. I don't wish to die but I hate this curse."

I suppose some are better able to handle this "curse" better than others.

Haha, yes coming out is a very hard thing to do and I still have many troubles and struggles, I wish it was easier for everybody!

mykell

01-31-2016, 08:16 AM

No just to clarify when I say there is a comparison to crossdressing and an affair its when you are going so far as having a stash of clothes, dressing when the SO is not around etc.. Coming on this site and trying to figure things out is not the same as an affair. And I'm not saying tell the world what you do at all!!!! Not your doctor, lawyer, accountant etc but the SO should know if your going that far.

Me turn water into wine? I only wish I could!

i did not purposely single you out but "coward and liar" ....some have a pretty high and mighty moral compass here, like i said look me in the eye and judge me,

but why stop at the mrs. why not your lawyer, doctor, drinking buddies........."loud and proud" righteousness for all !!!! right. :drink:

Launa

01-31-2016, 08:27 AM

i did not purposely single you out but "coward and liar" ....some have a pretty high and mighty moral compass here, like i said look me in the eye and judge me,

but why stop at the mrs. why not your lawyer, doctor, drinking buddies........."loud and proud" righteousness for all !!!! right. :drink:

Look were too far away to look each other in the eye. LOL And your absolutely right about the keyboard as anybody can type shit out, same as saying something on the telephone! I get it all the time when commenting on MSN etc! In this case here I'm only talking about the Mrs and thats what the thread asked was about the lies to the SO.

I don't jump on top of buildings and yell out who I am and what I'm up to but I'm out a fair bit and have thought if someone ever asks if its me then I will have to own it.

mykell

01-31-2016, 08:56 AM

what works for one does not work for the other, if your busted sneaking around with this it hurts, telling an unsuspecting mate about this hurts, being judged by your peers here.....it hurts too. if i was starting a new relationship with this would i do it different, not your business to be up in my business...most here are way down the matrimonial paths and have the burden of dealing with the consequences.... made theyre bed and have to lye in it.....

words like "coward" and "liar" dont help anything.....

im not singling you out Launa, im being general here and in the other threads that get contentious here....

Launa

01-31-2016, 09:09 AM

what works for one does not work for the other, if your busted sneaking around with this it hurts, telling an unsuspecting mate about this hurts, being judged by your peers here.....it hurts too. if i was starting a new relationship with this would i do it different, not your business to be up in my business...most here are way down the matrimonial paths and have the burden of dealing with the consequences.... made theyre bed and have to lye in it.....

words like "coward" and "liar" dont help anything.....

OK I GET IT!!!!!

And sorry, I don't want to hurt or make it a worse problem for anybody either!!!!

donnaS

01-31-2016, 09:41 AM

If you you have never kept anything or made a mistake or never lied to your wife/SO, then you may cast the first stone. And I am willing to die by your stone.

Lori Kurtz

01-31-2016, 10:16 AM

Not telling one's wife about his interest in wearing women's clothing is akin to cheating on a wife through Ashley Madison? I think not!

For me, crossdressing was very much akin to cheating on my wife. It was a sexual activity that took energy away from my relationship with her; it gave me sexual pleasure at her expense, without her having the opportunity to understand what was (and was not) going on between the two of us. There is so much diversity in what the experience of crossdressing means, that our discussion is not well served by universalizing anyone's individual experience. I certainly wouldn't reject anyone's assertion that he/she engages in crossdressing in a way that is not destructive to the honesty that a good marriage requires--for some, the crossdressing, even though secret, might be perfectly harmless. But I know from experience that secret crossdressing can definitely be harmful to a marriage, because I know that my secret life was harmful to my marriage long before my wife discovered the truth and decided to end the marriage.

Kimberley May

01-31-2016, 10:32 AM

Well, I've decided not to tell my girlfriend. We kinda touched on the subject last night and she suggested she finds it too odd for a guy to wear women's clothes (despite her wearing mens clothes from head to toe).

So in my case it's more on a need to know basis. So personally she doesn't need to know, as while we are not living together I will continue with my secret double identity, and if/when we decide to move in together like a proper couple then I will purge and give it all up. Sure I'll miss it a little but it's not denial. I'm happy enough being a guy, and wearing drab. I've lived all of my life in drab anyway. So she doesn't need to know, and what she doesn't need to know can't hurt her. It would be senseless to damage a good relationship over a small kink I occasionally dabbled with which I'm able to give up anyway. To me they're just clothes as nice and comfy as they are. Unless we move in together (it won't be for a while anyway) I will just continue to enjoy any time I have left alone.

Besides, I will compensate a little and find any mens silk/satin nightwear, and still try grow my hair long.

mechamoose

01-31-2016, 10:35 AM

For me, crossdressing was very much akin to cheating on my wife. It was a sexual activity that took energy away from my relationship with her; it gave me sexual pleasure at her expense, without her having the opportunity to understand what was (and was not) going on between the two of us.

Think about that for a few moments.

Cheating on your partner is directly betraying promises you made to each other. Direct, personal promises.

When I'm confused and lost, I go to my best friend... my wife. There is no problem so large or horrible that I could not trust her with that. Sure, she may get pissed off and leave. We did have a break and spent two years living apart. We are together now some 11 years after the fact. I would trust her with anything.

While I am not trying to universalize anyone's experience, there are universal things. Truth is #1 on that list for me.

Lori K: Think about what secret crossdressing entails. Find time alone. Find time when you can do whatever without being discovered. Clean it all up before anyone else comes back so you can go back to your 'old' self.

Ok, so maybe it shares the same logic paths as cheating, but I don't think it is the same. Cheating is awful. Cheating is throwing all your assurances into the wind. it is betrayal. Identity changes are just that, changes.

Being girly is NOT as bad as that. Not all lies are equal. I am a binary thinker, and that is too far even for me.

- MM

char GG

01-31-2016, 11:41 AM

@Kimberley May

(despite her wearing mens clothes from head to toe).

Is this a true statement or your spin on your wife's clothing? Does she buy her clothes in the ladies or men's section of a store? Is jeans only "men's clothing"?

It is annoying to see this statement reiterated over and over. Most women don't buy "men's" clothes! This is not the 1920's.

Oh, by the way, if the post was was written by a women and she said "despite my husband wearing women's clothing from head to toe" bla bla bla; you wouldn't like!

Back to the OP's comment, don't lie to your wife. Someday it will bite you in the butt and trust is hard to repair.

Stephanie47

01-31-2016, 12:18 PM

Lori, your comment at #95 is not akin to going outside your marriage to engage is some affair with another woman or man. Yes, I can agree there may be a lot of sexual energy that is expended on yourself rather than your wife. I think that is a different issue rather than cross dressing in general. Over the decades I've seen marriages destroyed because sexual energy has been expended on others. But, marriages are also destroyed when a man or a woman is also consumed by other activities. I've seen many many marriages destroyed because all of the man's energies have been consumed by hanging out with the guys, fishing, golfing....basically treating his wife as a sex object at best and a domestic slave to keep the home neat and clean and raise his off spring. If anyone is consumed by a compulsive disorder, and, it does not have to be cross dressing, then some counseling is in order. As it has been said numerous times on this site, many times cross dressing takes the blame because it is the last straw or the patsy for a litany of other reasons that were destined to destroy a marriage.

mechamoose

01-31-2016, 12:39 PM

The whole thread is causing me to ask myself a poignant question.

What is a Marriage?

WHY did you link up with that person? THAT person.

Was it because they pushed the right buttons in the right way?

Was it was because they liked you and you liked them back?

Was it because they fit you like a glove, filling in your gaps while you filled theirs?

Go back to the day of the proposal. What was in your heart that day?

Aren't they the same person then as now? Did they somehow end up as a 'room-mate with benefits'?

Everything changes in a relationship when you move in with someone. I get that. Marriage is different. It is the biggest legal contract you can partake in with only a holy man to advise you. No lawyers. If it was a business or financial choice of that magnitude, you wouldn't dream of doing it without an attorney. But we did.

However: We made oathsworn promises that day because we WANTED to. We went there willingly for THEM. *Because* of them.

Why can't you trust them now? What happened?

Why don't you trust your mate?

Are you afraid of loss? Pain?

Just think about WHAT you are afraid of please. Reflect on that and WHY you are afraid of that. I get that life isn't perfect. I get that nobody wants to be isolated. That isn't enough of a reason to hide.

Please, don't react based on fear. You are better than that.

- MM

Kimberley May

01-31-2016, 02:28 PM

@Kimberley May

Is this a true statement or your spin on your wife's clothing? Does she buy her clothes in the ladies or men's section of a store? Is jeans only "men's clothing"?

It is annoying to see this statement reiterated over and over. Most women don't buy "men's" clothes! This is not the 1920's.

Oh, by the way, if the post was was written by a women and she said "despite my husband wearing women's clothing from head to toe" bla bla bla; you wouldn't like!
I wasn't lying. My "girlfriend" does buy and wear mens clothes, because she says she finds them more comfortable, and more convenient such as mens jeans has deeper pockets. Mens jumpers are thicker and warmer, etc. She still wears women's underwear however. Only last week we were looking around in a mens only clothes store for a new jacket for her. Nobody gives her bother in the street over it.

And yet she would find it too weird if she knew about my CDing. It really is one rule for one and another for the other.

mechamoose

01-31-2016, 02:47 PM

The personal attacks about courage and truth need to stop. It isn't productive.

'Approaches' to solving our collective problem are fair game. Name calling benefits no one.

Please, this is a discussion/debate. (Ever been on a true debating team?? You have to defend ideas you don't believe. Mind, not gut.) Nobody here has the 'right' answer. As loud and flagrant as I am, I don't believe *I* have the right answer. I'm just vehement.

To contribute to the idea... my wife wears men's clothing at home every day. It is loose and 'comfy'. when she goes to work she does all female clothing.

Anybody else see associations to us there?

"If you need to raise your voice, you have lost the argument"

- MM

Launa

01-31-2016, 03:20 PM

For me, crossdressing was very much akin to cheating on my wife. It was a sexual activity that took energy away from my relationship with her; it gave me sexual pleasure at her expense, without her having the opportunity to understand what was (and was not) going on between the two of us. There is so much diversity in what the experience of crossdressing means, that our discussion is not well served by universalizing anyone's individual experience. I certainly wouldn't reject anyone's assertion that he/she engages in crossdressing in a way that is not destructive to the honesty that a good marriage requires--for some, the crossdressing, even though secret, might be perfectly harmless. But I know from experience that secret crossdressing can definitely be harmful to a marriage, because I know that my secret life was harmful to my marriage long before my wife discovered the truth and decided to end the marriage.

This was more to my point about comparing it to being the same as an affair. Everything is fine and dandy when its all in your head and you keep it there but maybe with progression you start buying things to suit your needs such as under garments then wigs, shoes etc... Then one day you get made over from head to toe and BAM a 3rd person in the relationship is born. She is now come from fantasy to life and this new girl can get you pretty darn high, she can probably satisfy you pretty darn good and theres difference between it and other normal, hobby activities such as fishing, bowling or hanging with the dudes!

TaraGrace

01-31-2016, 04:04 PM

So we can all rest assured that those throwing stones have thoroughly rid their lives of anything questionable whatsoever, right?
Hey, I did tell my wife and yeah it worked out great for me. Yet I have enough experience to know those who like to crow the loudest about how chaste and pure they are, are the people with the biggest collections of skeletons in the closet.

Angela, good point. This one really made my mind spin a bit I admit..
So here's what I thought of.. being human means making mistakes, we do.
I can honestly say I've been evaluating myself for the last 20 years each couple of months, who am I, do I like myself, what can I improve. (something I learned from a sales trainer that was just a little more 'mentor' like then all other trainers I had since). So no I did not rid myself of anything questionable (it's impossible), but yes I still would post my opinion.

A thought in return though.. as yours was nice to think on :)

It would be a right mess if we've start "boo you wife cheater" in threads that have nothing to do with that topic, right?
This is a forum to share thoughts, particular threads have conflicted opinions, should we not give them?
I mean, I hang out in the photo section too, but I would be once facebook and not here if it was all about "dig your new boots" alone..

x Tara

VeronicaMoonlit

01-31-2016, 10:50 PM

Yes . . . it must be lonely living among the perfect beings of the universe.

Nobody is saying they are perfect, just that telling leads to better outcomes than not-telling. Lets do a little exercise here. Think of yourself as a Corporal...and I'm the Chief Warrant Officer calling you on the carpet because you lack long-term experience with the online transcommunity. Which is a gentle way of saying: you're still a noob. Really, I hated saying that, but I had to. I am very surprised you have said the things you have. In my head I was going: "WHAT is Marcelle saying! Can't she see the patterns of behavior and how it works out? She's enabling the not-telling which leads to bad outcomes!"

We all make decision in life and guess what . . . they are ours to make not anyone else's'.

But in the case of "this thing of ours of varying kinds", any decisions affect others, including the one to not-tell. That decision takes away informed choice from the SO. It's basically taking AWAY a decision from them.

So for those trying to shame others into your way of thinking, how will you feel should someone take your advice, it goes bad and that person does something drastic to themselves or those around them.

Lets look at the issue simply in frankly. Which decision in telling has better outcomes:

1. Telling before the relationship starts/at the beginning
2. Telling After some time (years) have passed
3. Being found out when the stash is found.

We all know #1 is the most optimal path with the best outcomes, failing that, #2. But #3 is obviously the worst. These "patterns" have been seen OVER AND OVER on these boards for YEARS and in other places in the online transcommunity for YEARS before that. Of course, you aren't aware of that, because you are a noob.

There are PATTERNS to "this thing of ours of varying kinds" none of this is new. THIS discussion has happened before, many many times. None of us are special snowflakes, there are PATTERNS. The "upper class CD bankrolling a pink fog fueled transition at retirement", "the canadian CD slip sliding into a transition", "the trannier-than-thou HBSers", "the Tea Party Crossdressers", "the masks and bodysuit crowd", "the little girl crossdressers", "the ones who take pictures in the exact same pose and position, over and over"....I've seen itall before, many many years ago.

Yes, you can argue the SO might find out eventually or perhaps she/he will not.

Really? After all the times we have seen the "the wife found my stash" threads....you're going to say that?

If the person can manage it, hurts nobody (it is just clothes right?)

Piffle, you more than most know that it most certainly is NOT just about the clothes for some people.

what difference does it make if they like to dress pretty from time to time?

Nothing, but think about the logistics. If they don't know, you have to hide, and the logistics of dressing can get silly. finding places to hide stuff, figuring out any mailed packages, hiding receipts, making explanations for withdrawals/store debits from the bank account, making an explanation for the traces of makeup, etc etc. And always worrying if the wife will come home early.

But telling removes those logistical issues doesn't. It makes the crossdressing less stressful, doesn't it?

but why stop at the mrs. why not your lawyer, doctor, drinking buddies........."loud and proud" righteousness for all !!!! right. :drink:

That's a straw argument there, because more than anyone else, the wife DESERVES to know. The relationship with one's wife/so/immediate family is different from those others.

Well, I've decided not to tell my girlfriend. We kinda touched on the subject last night and she suggested she finds it too odd for a guy to wear women's clothes

Why didn't you just be direct and "have the talk" and solve the problem in the first place rather than "hint" or "beat around the bush"?

So in my case it's more on a need to know basis.

Read what I wrote above about deserving to know.

as while we are not living together I will continue with my secret double identity, and if/when we decide to move in together like a proper couple then I will purge and give it all up.

THAT is not a long term solution, but you don't know that because, like Marcelle, you're a noob. Kimberley...that doesn't work. You may think it will, but it doesn't. We've seen it over and over again. "I wanted to get married so I purged and tried to give it up but the urges were still there and they got stronger so I started again." I'm telling you directly, if you purge, you're being VERY foolish.

So she doesn't need to know, and what she doesn't need to know can't hurt her.

You just made a decision FOR her, denying her choice in the matter. So what happens when your purge fails, as it always does. You're stuck with someone you "think" will have an issue with it. That's one of the dumbest things you could ever do. Instead of purging and repressing, why not find someone who DOESN"T have a problem with it in the first place. That's a win-win situation for everyone.

It would be senseless to damage a good relationship over a small kink I occasionally dabbled with which I'm able to give up anyway.

A small kink, that you've dabbled in...since you were in your TEENS! What you're doing right now is lying to yourself to make yourself feel better about the decision you're making to give it up and you know it. That, we've also seen before MANY MANY times. "I can give it up, it's just a kink." And then you know what happens....the purge fails.

Besides, I will compensate a little and find any mens silk/satin nightwear, and still try grow my hair long.

If it's just a "kink", why grow your hair long? We both know why...it's MORE than a kink. And wouldn't you rather not have to compensate? Why settle for a future of "My wife found my stash", when you could have soemthing better?

Veronica

Tammy494

01-31-2016, 11:56 PM

i understand why many of you keep this a secret. But as somebody who had to leave their SO because he would not confess even when caught, it can really damage your relationship the longer you wait. Your SO deserves to know all of you, and if they accept it/or want to learn to accept it, then you know you're with the right person. If not, then at least you don't have to live a double life and you can find somebody else who loves all of you and everything you do.
I just have a question for those who lie about or hide it.. Do you feel guilty for hiding something so significant in your life from somebody that loves and trusts you? I only ask because now that my boyfriend has come clean, I'm still feeling the betrayal of being lied to for months and made out to be crazy for "accusing" him of crossdressing. It makes me wonder what else he could lie to me about and if he ever felt bad about lying in the first place. I'm coming into this pretty late, so sorry for that.

Kimberley May

02-01-2016, 04:53 AM

@VeronicaMoonlit

Please quit dictating to me how I actually think, like you know my mind better than I know it myself. You don't know me, my mind, my situation, my girlfriend and how she thinks, or my life at all. Stop assuming that everyone's life is just like your own, it isn't. I am not in denial, and yes for me it is a kink. I do not want to be a woman for real, you might do but I don't. For me, it is just a kink and a comfort while I don't have a female partner living here. Yes growing my hair long is another lil' kink for me. Sorry if that personally offends you.

The long hair will become more masculine style anyway when I'm with her and out and about. Please don't try dictate to me that I'm wrong again, because you are about me. Maybe you will take personal offence at my reasons conflicting with your own reasons. Personally I don't care if you do, that's your deal not mine.

If I tell her and she reacts badly because I didn't tell her when we first met, then I'm selfish. But if I don't tell her and quit it to protect her and our relationship even if I can live without it, then I'm somehow in denial and still lying to her. I can't win. Why should I risk destroying my whole relationship and lose her, just for the cause and because it worked for you so everyone should do the same even if it doesn't work for them? Women don't fall at my feet everyday and I feel lucky to have her. She's more important to me than my clothes addiction (shock horror), a small addiction when added together over the years only stretch to a few months, mostly these last few months. I've quite comfortably lived without it most of my life, for me it's just a bit of femme role play. If she was happy then it would just stay between us, otherwise I'll just find a new harmless lil' kink with her to keep us entertained (and she has a few).

Stop assuming that one size fits all, that everyone is just like you. They ain't.

Marcelle

02-01-2016, 05:04 AM

Nobody is saying they are perfect . . .

Says the person looking down their nose at those who don't choose her path . . . ah perfection is a lonely place is it not?

So you have are completely honest in all aspects of your life? Out to your family and friends, the world writ large? Before you ask . . . yes I am, my wife, my work, my life (I am TS)

Look . . . I am not saying don't tell, I am just letting others here know that this is no easy road to travel and by all means espouse the benefits of telling from your own experience but don't pretend to know the mindset and situation of everyone here. This is hard enough for some who are struggling dealing with a very confusing thing and you all should know better . . . tossing around words like liars, cowards, shame, guilt and whatnot does nobody any good. Try seeing it from the perspective of the person who is struggling . . . you have all been there and should empathize. Then provide guidance, not outright direction like the moral guardians of all that is good.

Marcelle

Kimberley May

02-01-2016, 05:37 AM

Exactly Marcelle. Just because he thinks it's worth the risk himself to lose his entire family and be alone in it forever even though it worked out well for him, it doesn't mean that everyone should risk the same. Besides his reasons for dressing are likely entirely different to mine. As you say, not everybody is the same and has the same situation, it's extremely arrogant to assume so, and also arrogant to believe that because it turned out fine for him then everyone should follow his lead and come out even if it destroys their marriage, family relations and life, even if it is just a nice kink fetish.

I won't let it cloud my judgment and just come out regardless. I would be very foolish to.

Update:
If I ever do come out to my SO, it will only be to her and as a small private sexual fetish only. She tells me that she has a wardrobe of fetish clothes herself, so she might understand. I'll offer to try on some of her fetish stuff one day when she brings some round, like her skimpy sexy original Star Trek mini dress for instance and she how she responds I think ;)

But I also have to bear in mind that she has an 8yo daughter if we move in together, plus her brother might eventually be living with us. Being CD is not simply straightforward.

Katey888

02-01-2016, 07:27 AM

Well said Marcelle and Kimberley... :)

I was pondering on this thread overnight and what struck me is how much preaching goes on here under the pretext of support. This sort of sanctimonious pontification is NOT support: it's thinly-veiled imperiousness that follows the same pattern - "you've done something wrong that conflicts with my values so I'm telling you the right dogma to follow because my values are the only ones that matter..." :facepalm:

Why do so many of you assume that personal values are absolute and homogeneous when clearly that is far from reality? Look around at the behaviour of your politicians, public figures, commercial leaders, friends, anyone! - if you need examples of how diverse 'truth' and 'honesty' can be interpreted.

Your values are not my values and your opinions of morals are just that: your opinions, with no more moral weight than any individual that posts here.

Your telling outcomes...

1. Telling before the relationship starts/at the beginning
2. Telling After some time (years) have passed
3. Being found out when the stash is found.

Well, 3 is clearly not telling, so why not add:
4. Never being found out and never having to tell :)

Again, why do you believe the contrary and ignore what is obviously real: that some people go their entire lives with never being outed..? This forum is NOT representative of the entire CD community - there are much bigger and more online communities that relate to the fetish and sexual side of this behaviour than we represent. This community is skewed - most of the time in a positive, thinking sense - but occasionally the preachy side comes out and I can't help but think that there's a touch of the "Well I'm out so everyone has to be out.." I've seen it so many times and because there are so few of us that are willing to bear the moral outrage and calls of 'liar', 'coward', blah, blah... the pressure to believe that outing is inevitable builds on those who are not. That's not supportive - it's dogmatic and one-dimensional thinking.

Relationships are built on many different levels with different emphases for different people - anyone that believes otherwise is so myopic about their own experience, quite frankly, for that opinion to be worth little to anyone else.

Kimberley: Do what you want to do and what feels right for you - this place is not the universal arbiter of what is good and bad in relationships. For one thing all of us have something weird going on just to be here, right? And some of us are really struggling with something significant in the gender sense... While we might all appreciate a little of what you're going through, in other ways this place would the last on earth I'd take advice from... :)

Katey x

mykell

02-01-2016, 07:54 AM

@veronica moonlit, if your going to quote me use my original post, not pieces you dissected from a members response from my original....youd make a shrewd politico, dissecting just the parts of posts you need to fit your view....misdirection thats a straw argument.... immediate family was included in my original post....

when you join here just by hitting the “complete registration" button to join takes courage !!!

comparing a crossdresser to an affair, coward and liar ????

lay out all your fears and inhibitions for the group to have at :devil: ( will you tell us next that you in fact turn water into wine, walk across crossdresser pond while it is not in a frozen state).....seems some moral compasses are tweaked up to 150%

those who told your wife, commendable, but look someone in the eye and judge them, a coward does it through a keyboard !!!!

does your boss know
does your neighbor know,
does your mom and dad know,
does you priest know,
does your drinking buddy know,
does your lawyer know,
does your doctor know,
does society know,

why not what are you a coward !!!!!

to much judgement from the general public has folks clambering for a safe haven from whatever ails them, then when they find a group of like minded to relate to and feel comfortable sharing themselves with and then those very same folks turn and judge them for the slight difference they may have,
maybe we can add some new forums down at the bottom of the page where they have more specialized forums....

Check out these other hot web properties:

“crossdressers who don't tell” ,
“crossdressers who arent gay if you want a man while dressed”,
“crossdressers that just like the clothes that sometimes stain theyre panties”,
“crossdressers who don't do enough for the community”,
“crossdressers that are just a regular crossdresser”
"crossdressers who dont have a clue how to crossdress"
"crossdressers that walk on water"
"crossdressers that hate caitlyn jenner"
"crossdressers that hate transgender"
"crossdressers that dislike sarcasm"
"crossdressers that dont participate"
"crossdressers that dont share pictures"
"crossdressers that are too crossdressy"

that list could go on forever......:straightface:

Krisi

02-01-2016, 09:08 AM

We all have our reasons for doing what we do, but I agree with Laurana that we shouldn't be lying to our wives. Crossdressing on the sly is a bit like having an affair with another woman.

The only logical reason to hide our crossdressing from our wives is the fear of divorce or rejection. Or at the least, loss of intimacy.

We can't all tell our potential wives before getting married, some of us got the urge well into the marriage. It's awkward after thirty years of marriage to say "Honey, by the way, I like to prance around the house in women's clothes, makeup and high heels while you are at work.", but it's best if we can find a way.

You're going to get caught eventually if you don't tell.

4. Never being found out and never having to tell
Most criminals start out with that thought.

DanielleLee

02-01-2016, 10:05 AM

This thread, not surprisingly has, has gone the way the OP intended. I steered cleared of it until now because of it.

The same posters, with their same militant or "passionate" opinions... with a few voices of reason trying to even things out.

This site is supposed to be a support forum above all else, which is to say it is in existence to provide support, guidance and advise. As of late it seems, at least in my opinion and in the opinions of some others, that support is only being provided if you cross dress and tell according to the proscribed manner that is required... subject to the express views and opinions of a few

In my opinion it seems we've lost our collective empathy towards others here. We all know the burden this has been for each of us at various times in our lives and the shame/guilt most of us have faced, face or will face in the future.

One final thought or request: please take care to ensure your house is perfect of defects and that every relationship is perfect, before coming into my house and judging me and mine. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGIUtLO_x8g

Secret Drawer

02-01-2016, 10:48 AM

One thing that may actually make it difficult if not impossible for some to overcome in order to tell any other human being (outside the internet) would be the inner confusion and turmoil that may be a part of all of this. It is pretty darn hard to figure out what to "tell" at all when one is confused about it to begin with.
So in a non controversial way of answering the OP I would say "Perhaps the person does not yet understand enough about what is going on with them psychologically to be able to articulate to a person they love, (A very high stress situation on its own!) how they feel or need to act or wish to have things move forward?"

In my case, my wife did in fact "find my stash." We had the talk, she did in fact ask if I was gay, etc... We live in a somewhat open DADT, and I would like this to change to a DA but sometimes TELL how I feel at times.

Also, we all define relationships differently. My relationship "happens to be" sort of independent on many levels, I don't feel the need to know everything there is to know about my wife or what she does. I trust her to make good judgement calls. She understood why I wouldn't tell someone about my femme side and why it was so difficult to talk about. Empathy goes both ways, I don't see why that is so hard for some people?

Katey888

02-01-2016, 10:57 AM

You're going to get caught eventually if you don't tell.

4. Never being found out and never having to tell
Most criminals start out with that thought.

Wrong! :)

Once again, ignorance is bliss - so every CDer gets caught? Clearly not... yet you continue to peddle falsehoods to support your view of the world - that says it all... happy, blissful...

And probably every criminal starts with that thought - but what we do isn't a crime is it...? Or do you think it should be...? Or is it only a crime if you don't tell your SO...?

You people don't come here to support - you come here to judge. But you have no right and no moral authority to do so... Thank goodness... :)

Katey

Kimberley May

02-01-2016, 11:10 AM

It's wildly ironically hypocritical how some proudly out in the open with it don't like to be judged by the world for crossdressing being told they're wrong for doing so and long to be understood and accepted, yet they judge other CD'ers telling them they're wrong themselves for not coming out and not accepting them and their many different reasons for that, not even caring to understand why themselves.

So I'm wondering with all those who would judge, who's more ignorant? :confused:

mykell

02-01-2016, 11:14 AM

so the indignation and derision has you down, feeling less of a part of the group, in denial, dont despair, its the future, so i present to you the "wayback" machine.....

thats right after another similar thread from one of our GGs i invented the "say it from your stash" the guilt and insult free way to tell....heres a link

http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?224212-**GREAT-ADVISE**keep-a-record-in-your-stash**&highlight=

VeronicaMoonlit

02-01-2016, 11:24 AM

@VeronicaMoonlit

Please quit dictating to me how I actually think, like you know my mind better than I know it myself.

The last person to say something like that to me here, said the following to me about 2 months later: "You really did know me better than I knew myself." I said something like this to her: "Of course I did, I've seen it all before. The patterns of behavior are obvious to see."

You don't know me, my mind, my situation, my girlfriend and how she thinks, or my life at all.

You really think you're that much of a special snowflake? You really think you're that much different from the OTHER "CD's who say it's just a kink who-live-in-the-UK" who came before you? Patterns of behavior are OBVIOUS, people. They stick out like a sore thumb. It's simply a sort of forum demographics.

For me, it is just a kink and a comfort while I don't have a female partner living here.

Yes, yes and how many times have we heard THAT phrase before?

Yes growing my hair long is another lil' kink for me. Sorry if that personally offends you.

Why would you think I'm offended by that? I'm more offended by the fact that you've only been here a few months and you're NOT listening to the voices of experience who have been around for YEARS telling you to NOT make the mistake of purging.

Please don't try dictate to me that I'm wrong again, because you are about me.

We'll see about that. I'm going to predict that if you purge, you'll be back in 3 years or less, telling us how the purge didn't work.

Why should I risk destroying my whole relationship and lose her, just for the cause and because it worked for you so everyone should do the same even if it doesn't work for them? Women don't fall at my feet everyday and I feel lucky to have her.

Relationships are built on trust. Wouldn't you rather be with someone who does accept all of you, rather than just "settling"?

Says the person looking down their nose at those who don't choose her path . . . ah perfection is a lonely place is it not?

Can I be frank? I'm not looking down at those who didn't choose my path. I'm actually looking down upon the clueless noobs and perma-noobs who refuse to learn from the mistakes of the past, including my own. Did I not mention how disappointed and sad my family was that I didn't trust them? Have I not mentioned in the past that my Mother wished I had told her when I was young because she would have tried to help me. My not-telling was a big mistake and the fallout from the years of not-telling affects me to this day.

So you have are completely honest in all aspects of your life?

In this thread, we are talking about CD's coming out to SO's (and by extension immediate family they live with). We really don't need to expand it further like you're doing here:

Out to your family and friends, the world writ large? Before you ask . . . yes I am, my wife, my work, my life (I am TS)

I know you are TS, pink fog express and all that. But you might want to check the ol profile. And you might want to check my posting history...go on...you ought to check mHB and USENET too. (God how I miss the early days here, when more people knew my reputation from USENET.) Because trying to pull that "you can't tell CD's to be honest with their wives and immediate family if you aren't ALL THE WAY OUT" thing on me won't work...because that's basically saying only fully transitioned TS's can tell CD's to tell their wives and that's silly.

Besides, my friends DO know, and the immediate family has/had (Mom & Dad have passed away, but they knew), as does my Boss of Bosses at work and some of my co-workers. To put it in the vernacular: Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!"

Look . . . I am not saying don't tell,

I know you're not....but....

I am just letting others here know that this is no easy road to travel and by all means espouse the benefits of telling from your own experience but don't pretend to know the mindset and situation of everyone here.

The problem is, some are going to use your words to keep on weaseling out of telling the wife. "see, if Marcelle who is out says it's okay not to tell, it's okay". And I'm not pretending to literally know, I'm using patterns of behavior, to predict future behavior based on high probability. It is basically forum demographics. You'll be able to do it too, eventually.

This is hard enough for some who are struggling dealing with a very confusing thing and you all should know better . . . tossing around words like liars, cowards, shame, guilt and whatnot does nobody any good.

Yeah, but the nicey nice "lets just hint at stuff that people should be doing rather than calling people out on their dumb and self-destructive behavior" isn't working, or we'd have fewer "my wife just found my stash" threads. This is basically tough love, trying to PREVENT future issues.

Try seeing it from the perspective of the person who is struggling

I do.

Then provide guidance, not outright direction like the moral guardians of all that is good.

We have, but it's not working because people obstinately refuse to do the thing that needs to be done that everyone knows should be done. To put it in the vernacular, people here still keep putting their hands in the fire even when they're told hundreds of times "Stop doing THAT."

Exactly Marcelle. Just because he thinks it's worth the risk himself to lose his entire family and be alone in it forever even though it worked out well for him, it doesn't mean that everyone should risk the same. Besides his reasons for dressing are likely entirely different to mine.

I would advise you, dearie, to never use male pronouns to refer to me on this board again. Am I making myself clear, love.

I was pondering on this thread overnight and what struck me is how much preaching goes on here under the pretext of support. This sort of sanctimonious pontification is NOT support: it's thinly-veiled imperiousness that follows the same pattern - "you've done something wrong that conflicts with my values so I'm telling you the right dogma to follow because my values are the only ones that matter..." :facepalm:

That's not it at all, it's not about values, it's about "probabilities". It's a numbers thing, more than an ethics or morals thing (though it's also about that)

Why do so many of you assume that personal values are absolute and homogeneous when clearly that is far from reality? Look around at the behaviour of your politicians, public figures, commercial leaders, friends, anyone! - if you need examples of how diverse 'truth' and 'honesty' can be interpreted.

That doesn't matter one whit and you know it. We are talking about SO's here..... a personal relationship. the behavior of public figures and whatnot is irrelevant in this discussion.

Your telling outcomes...

Well, 3 is clearly not telling, so why not add:
4. Never being found out and never having to tell :)

Don't be a fool. Even though you're a noob, you should know by now that the reason I didn't include #4...is because the extremely low probability of actually happening. Look at the "my just found my stash" threads we see. It's not "if" it's "when, and you know it. Even Karen Hutton, who was once the poster-child for thinking she was getting away with it and thought she was so careful and would never get caught, got caught. You all think you're special snowflakes who will never get caught, that you have the perfect hiding space and how you're so good at hiding it...and you all FAIL, it's only a matter of time. All it takes is one little slip, or a wife getting curious about the bank account, or whatever, and you're busted. And yes that applies to the fetish side of the community that isn't here too.

Kimberley: Do what you want to do and what feels right for you - this place is not the universal arbiter of what is good and bad in relationships.

Maybe, but THIS place knows that purges don't work in the long term.

For one thing all of us have something weird going on just to be here, right?

(Don Draper moment) WHAT? (/Don Draper Moment) You didn't just say that. This is the point in a western movie when the heroine says: "Smile when you say that, pardner."

Weird? Did you just basically say that everyone including the TS's is "weird"? "This Thing of Ours of Varying Kinds" isn't "weird". It's a natural part of the human condition and has been so for a very very long time. Never call it "weird".

Veronica

Marcelle

02-01-2016, 12:16 PM

Veronica

You still don't get it. Who are you to dictate what is right and what is wrong and then denigrate people who don't toe your line.

BTW ... stop misquoting me. I never said don't tell I said make an informed decision but it is yours to make.

I can only wish I will be perfect like you some day. But then again I am just a noob who knows nothing about the human condition and you are oh so wise and worldly

Abbey11

02-01-2016, 12:23 PM

This is a great thread, loving it xx

Kimberley May

02-01-2016, 12:37 PM

You're so condescending Veronica, dear.

Yes I've only been here a few months but what does that prove? That you're the only voice of reason and you know me more than I know myself? You're not here to support and listen and understand, you're only here to push your way of thinking onto everybody else who doesn't conform to your way of life and thinking whether they want it or not. You cannot force gender feelings on anyone.

OK, you reckon someone proved you right, well whoopee-doo. You can't use this one little victory as a platform to arrogantly suggest that everyone is really a woman trapped inside a man's body. I'm very much attached to my male bits and i'm only attracted to women, tyvm.

You sure like to assume that you know everyone better than they know themselves, but you don't. I could buy myself a gorilla or a Tarzan outfit. It doesn't mean that I actually see myself as a bleeping gorilla or Tarzan for real.

I don't identify myself as a she as you identify yourself as, and equally I would like you to address me as "he". I am a bloke in a dress called Kimberley (which is a unisex name, btw). I am a he, a him, a guy getting straight sexual kicks in women's clothing. Nothing else. It's not denial, it's fact. Please don't radicalise me into believing I'm female trapped inside a guy's body and/or I want to dress like this all the time in front of everybody. No, I'm just a guy who likes a little private or non-recognised kinky role-play. What, you believe such a guy as I make myself out to be doesn't exist I hear you silently cry in futile protest? Heck, I could equally suggest that you're not actually a woman having all the man bits n'all, but I wouldn't like to be so presumptuous not knowing how you feel inside, like you somehow believe you do with me.

If family and old friends find out, I will die of shame. I'll never be allowed to live it down, and even if they let it go and accepted it, I wouldn't feel right family and friends knowing. I wouldn't feel right parading and mincing (or dragging my knuckles) in front of them. Basically I'd feel like a total idiot even if they all happily welcomed it wholeheartedly straight away without judgment, as for me it is still the equivalent of me walking around in any kinky cosplay uniform used for private sex role-play.

But if I get busted, I get busted. If I'm busted by my gf though and she happily lets me carry on, great. If it's either my fetish or her then I'll purge, and yes for good. I've always been happy enough to wear guy clothes before anyway without feeling wrong in them, I still do.

Please don't arrogantly tell me I'm lying. I really don't want to come out to the world although I know my photos here carry some risk which I will remove at some point (lifelong SO excepted for the shared private fun if she's happy enough), I have enough issues and lifelong prejudices to contend with. I really would be alone if I shouted out my fetish to the world.

What you suggest may work for you and some, but it could equally ruin many peoples lives, even possibly drive one or two to suicide, just because they took your not always sound advice. How would you feel then if your advice backfired so dramatically? Could you still take comfort by thinking "oh well at least they took my advice about being honest, open and upfront, and that is still always only a good thing". Could you, really? You know that most SO and much immediate family, even friends aren't accepting anyway. Please don't suggest that the crossdressing comes first above your SO, and what was otherwise a happy relationship beforehand.