CD vs TG? (Non-TS responses only please)

[Zooey]

Hi all - I'm TS, but I have a question for all of you.

On this forum, everybody who is not a GG is considered "transgender" (TG). I have noticed that some of you identify specifically and explicitly as 'CD, not TG". Similarly, some of you identify as "TG, not just a CD".

What I'd like to know is... Why? What difference(s) are you trying to communicate when you do that?

[docrobbysherry]

Technically, all CD's fall under the TG umbrella, Zooey. Yet, I don't feel like I'm TG.

I didn't begin dressing until late in life. And, when I did begin 18 years ago, I wanted real breasts and fantasized about SRS, etc. Over the years, all those thots and desires vanished.:eek:

After coming here and also going out and meeting other dressers in person, I've come to believe I don't have a "female side". Feeling female and a sense of a female side seems to be a common thread among dressers all along the TG spectrum. That is why I don't think of myself as TG. Simply a CD.

While I get excited and turned on by wearing womens things, I don't think of Sherry as part of me. More like a third person whom I portray. Maybe like an actor doing a character?:battingeyelashes:

[Teresa]

Zooey,
OK back to labels again, crossdresser/transvestite wears clothes of the opposite sex, no sexual content in the explanation , maybe applies to members who see it as a hobby.
I now use TG , my CDing has a sexual content, my male/female mindset are intertwined with my sexual needs.

OK it's like a layer cake , the top layer is CD the layers beneath depending how deep they go may take you to transition.
You didn't fully equate to me making a gender sheet but in doing it and thinking the various states of CDing through helped me enormously to find myself, I recently spoke to my counsellor and she has used the idea with another client with good results.

[Dana44]

I think if you have gone deeper than CD like trans type of sexual activity. We had a large discussion on this topic. TG was the term many used for themselves. Gender dysphoria and other factors perhaps figure in this. But I think TG was the term for all of us a CD falls under that term and some of us are tween or between TG and TS.

[Katey888]

This'll be fun... :devil:

I think part of the issue is the WPATH definition referred to in what we see as the declared forum standard, and what TG has become in the media. To demonstrate, here's the forum WPATH definition:


Transgender: Adjective to describe a diverse group of individuals who cross or transcend culturally defined categories of gender. The gender identity of transgender people differs to varying degrees from the sex they were assigned at birth.

Compare that with the current Wiki definition:

Transgender people experience a mismatch between their gender identity or gender expression and their assigned sex. Transgender is also an umbrella term because, in addition to including trans men and trans women whose binary gender identity is the opposite of their assigned sex (and who are sometimes specifically termed transsexual if they desire medical assistance to transition), it may include genderqueer people (whose identities are not exclusively masculine or feminine, but may, for example, be bigender, pangender, genderfluid, or agender). Other definitions include third-gender people as transgender or conceptualize transgender people as a third gender, and infrequently the term is defined very broadly to include cross-dressers.

Therein lies the problem... :)

Personally, I'm happy to fit under the TG umbrella (I like TG-lite :battingeyelashes:), as I think anyone should who adopts a public expression of a gender identity (wholly or partially) that transcends the culturally accepted norm for gender expression (ie. how you dress, look, appear and sometimes behave). Unless you are a female impersonator, DQ, actor (maybe masker?), or someone doing this for other commercial purposes, for me you fit the definition. :)

If you stay at home, do not present these signs overtly in public (underdress) or dress purely for utilitarian or sexual purposes - then the jury's out... might be or might not be... :confused:

And there are shades of grey everywhere... :devil:

Katey x

[AllieSF]

I believe in the TG umbrella term and am therefore a CD in the TG spectrum. I am also as a good friends likes to tease me a CD+++, which is actually pretty accurate since I am almost done with electrolysis, have pierced ears, have clear polish on my nails always and more importantly, am starting to wonder what is next. As I just wrote in another new thread, I am happy and do not want to lose that happiness unnecessarily.

What I am trying to communicate is that I am me and right now by the umbrella definition, I am as stated above, a CD under the TG umbrella. I do occasionally say that I am TG in some conversations with strangers as I think that term sounds more serious as a word and maybe how others may interpret it compared to CD than if I just said I was a crossdresser. Maybe I am trying to help them think better about the whole concept of gender variance in presentation, as well as, in who we are.

[Teresa]

Katey,
It might be interesting if the general public were asked to describe the differences !
I guess we're members of Crossdressers.com and that's what the public will equate to .


Allie,
Just saying doesn't always put the message across, many think of a guy in a badly fitting dress with badly applied lipstick and staggering about in heels.
I find my pictures put the message across loud and clear, this guy isn't playing around he's working at something deeper that affects his life .

[Julogden]

"Adjective to describe a diverse group of individuals who cross or transcend culturally defined categories of gender. The gender identity of transgender people differs to varying degrees from the sex they were assigned at birth."

That makes the most sense to me, and that's what I have in mind when I use the word "transgender". I really don't get why some people object to being lumped in under the transgender umbrella.

[Nadine Spirit]

I believe in TG as being an umbrella term that covers us all. Most of my life I spend presenting in some form of gender non-conforming manner and occasionally I fully dress as a woman. Thus I consider myself as TG who is gender non-conforming and sometimes a CD.

[Zooey]

Hi folks... Just to clarify, I'm not specifically asking whether you believe in "transgender" as an umbrella term or not. It currently is one, and in this forum (and beyond) you certainly full under that umbrella.

I'm specifically interested to know why the people who specifically choose one word over the other do so, and especially people who specifically say things like "I'm TG not a CD" or "I'm a CD, definitely not TG". Put another way, some folks are not using it as an umbrella term, and for them it means something else. In some cases, they use it both ways. I'm trying to understand what differences people are trying to communicate when they choose their words that way.

It's interesting that some folks have listed "sexual involvement" as a reason to use the word "transgender" rather than "crossdresser". That surprises me.

[Julia Welch]

I'm a straight CD ... not TG or gay... I just love the feeling wearing feminine clothing gives me.

[sometimes_miss]

Actually, I'm not really sure where I fit. I do crossdress, that's a definite. I do feel like I'm supposed to be a girl, but don't have any female feelings and innate behaviors, don't naturally communicate as women do, don't experience the world as women do. I'm into things; people, not so much, and don't define myself or my life by the people in it. I can and have gone decades between contact with friends, and feel nothing unusual about that. So to me, transgender means I feel some things which aren't typically male, but not all things typically female. I'm somewhere in the middle. Sexually, I feel like I'm supposed to behave as a female does, but without the 'correct' parts, have to do something else, all the while imagining that I'm doing the former. It becomes a whole lot of half this, and half that. Then you have to take into account that I'm attracted to females, and feel males to be repulsive. I know the difference between sexual preference and sexual identification, but what I am doesn't fit with what society feels I should be. Does that help? Or make it more confusing?

Edit. One problem we currently have, is that if we use the term transgendered, the general public assumes that to mean transsexual. Which makes it even more difficult to explain what any one of us is. The label to the world at large is still unclear, not because what any of us have done, but mostly because the media hasn't bothered to educate the public, because all they're concerned with is making headlines so people will watch.

[Meghan4now]

Ogers are like onions.
Stinky and make you want to cry?
No no no. Ogers have layers, they have layers!
CDS are Ogers? Onions crossdress?
That's not what I m saying at all, now pay attention! They have layers.
Oh, I get it, under the coat is a dress and under the dress is a corset, and under the corset is some panty hose and ....
STOP IT! That's not what I mean. CDS are complicated.

Round and round we go. Some CDS don't feel like they belong to the TG spectrum because they don't envision them selves as females not that complicated. And BTW, sexual reasons often ARE involved with "simple" CDing. In fact that is one reason CD is a preferable term to TV, for some people. Historically, the TV term was often linked with the prefix fetishtic.

[Zooey]

I'm a straight CD ... not TG or gay... I just love the feeling wearing feminine clothing gives me.

Can you elaborate on why you're specifically not TG? What would that mean to you?

[Claire Cook]

Hi Zooey,

Here again I think we find that one size does not necessarily fit all (heck, there are some size 12's I can't get into and some that are way too big :heehee:). We've already seen that some of us don't identify much, if at all, with the female gender and there are the rest of us who are everywhere in between. I always thought that TG included CD, but Katey's point about the Wikipedia definition makes that uncertain, and makes TG sound more like TS. (I wonder who wrote that, and how much Wiki considered or edited it.) Maybe it's a question of the degree of female identification? I dunno. I crossdress. I present as female. Most of the time I present as male. I am transgendered and think I have fairly strong female elements in my makeup, but like most of us here am not considering transitioning.

Then there is Katey's "TG-lite" (I like that!). Maybe that includes many (or all?) of us??

[Jenniferathome]

I consider TG to have some component of gender confusion or gender flexibility or more simply, not a black and white definition of gender. I am male. I am also a cross dresser. I never think I am female. I don't want to be female, but for some crazy reason, I like to present as a woman from time to time. Even when I am in full girl mode, I am the guy that I always have been. No confusion, no questions, no what-ifs.

[ReluctantDebutant]

To refer to myself as transgender gives the impression that I am questioning my gender or that I believe my gender is in some flux. This isn't true at all. I was born male and I quite happily identify as male. The fact that some definition place cross-dressing under the TG umbrella reminds me the ancients who thought whales and dolphins as fish simply because they are creatures that swim in the sea. I don't find it offensive but I find it highly inaccurate.

[TaraGrace]

I just chose to use CD because it (a) seemed logical with this site being called CrossDressers.com, and (b) I just couldn't work out the lingo at start and maybe a tiny little bit of (c) associating TG with TS..

Now add sprinkels as I'm bi-sexual and thus potentially sexually attracted to f/m/tv/tg/ts/cd/kgb/fbi/cia/ibm.... etc. and secondly like human interaction with almost anyone (also all named and unnamed abreviations) it simply is still so confusing for me, that I just came back to (a) this site is called CrossDressers.. so I think I'll stick with CD.

[S. Lisa Smith]

I am a straight male who loves to present as the woman I would have been had I been born a woman. I love being one of the girls with GGs when I am dressed. However, at a party not dressed, I talk with the women as much or slightly more than the men. I don't want to be a woman full time. I consider myself TG and a crossdresser. i love the term TG lite and feel like it may be the best descriptor for me.

[sara.rafaela]

I am a crossdresser. I do not want to be a woman. I do not particularly feel like a woman or my real self when dressed. I really love the female form and women's fashions. I think that is where it is for me. I enjoy dressing and the whole effort of creating the illusion is like a real life art project for me.

[Curiosity666]

I used to use the CD label because I was terrified of the possibility that I may not be a cis male. Nowadays I have gotten over the fear and shame of the possibility of being any anything under the trans umbrella. Honestly I don't really know the best way to identify, but I am going to explore my gender more and more and just do what comes naturally. That may involve deciding I'm happy just the way I am, or even full blown transition. I guess I used to CD label as a form of denial.

[JeanTG]

I consider TG to have some component of gender confusion or gender flexibility or more simply, not a black and white definition of gender.

That's always been my view of TG and I think that's the "label" that fits me, assuming one can stick a label on a fluid! I've had much gender confusion all my life probably mostly induced by my mother's unhealthy obsession with wanting a girl instead of the boy that she ended up with (and couldn't have any more kids). I became conscious of it when I was a child, alternately rebelled strongly against it or gave into over my life, and now I am just admitting it's part of what I am, and trying to learn to roll with it. There's no sexual component to my dressing, in fact it takes the edge off what's left of my male libido, calms and soothes me. My "normal" includes expressing a feminine side. I express that feminine side by dressing when I can, through gestures and how I relate to women in general, when I can't. Whether I take this beyond dressing to HRT and some level of surgery (orchiectomy being the first logical step), remains to be seen. I think if I had a cooperative wife, I would, but wouldn't risk an otherwise good marriage for it (it isn't all about me) and I'm not sure she could wrap her head around it so I don't want to push the envelope. In terms of relating to men, I have absolutely NO desire to have relations with men: been there, done that, 30+ years ago and found zero degree of arousal from being with men. So in a social context I try to relate to men strictly as man-to-man, though my eyes roll over when men start to talk to me about pro sports, a subject I cannot stand. No wannabe jock I... In general, in parties, gatherings, etc., I try and avoid the men and hang with the women, where I feel more comfortable. Once I was with a bunch of friends in the garage of one of them who had invited us all to dinner. He was showing us his man-cave type project, I got quickly bored, and went up and joined the wives (mine wasn't there as she was working) and much preferred chatting with them and they were so kind and welcoming to me, as if I were one of them.

I'm not 100% male, and I'm not 100% female either. It varies somewhere around neutral, sometimes a bit more male, sometimes a bit more female. At the moment, I'm on the female side, mentally (which is where, when it comes down to it, gender resides, between the ears). For a few months last year I was fairly stable mostly on the male side. It never swings to extremes, perhaps 60/40 to 40/60.

So I don't CD to get off. I CD to express, and explore, the feminine side of my gender reality. I feel most myself when dressed, but haven't dared go out in public as I am very far from passing (but I'm slowly working on it).

I think someone strictly defining as a CD is either a fetishistic transvestite (to use the old term) or simply someone who likes to dress the other gender for reasons other than gender identity: feel of the clothes, aesthetics, whatever, all reasons are valid. And someone identifying TS is a TG who has clearly identified with a gender identity that is at or almost at the other end of the spectrum from their birth gender, is undergoing transition, is preparing to, or is trying to create the conditions in his/her life that would make transition possible.

I hope this all makes sense... I generally dislike labeling, as it tends to be judgmental and used to ostracize and hurt.

[mykell]

hi zooey,
i refer to myself as transgender, did it before bruce became caitlyn and before i ventured out of the house at my ripe old age,
when i first came here i would say that i was just a crossdresser, (Still have spell check for this word) before i read and learned more about the whole spectrum,
i now attend a support group which is all inclusive, friends, family, MtF, FtM, transsexuals male and female....when you look folks in the eye to help or receive support you see how petty we become sometimes here, pitting one type or "tier" against the other....

i just did a failed anti thread about this, and a rant in the tell dont tell thread, since I've been here we always have these threads with commonality “tell don't tell” , “are you gay if you want a man while dressed”, “ is it sexual”, “you don't do enough for the community”, “im just a crossdresser”, “your not trans enough”, "you dont crossdress right"…….I was trying to write the anti-version of these types of threads, after reading them i sometimes questions my “self” and feel im in some kind of denial about what or who or how, even though i accept that i am transgender and been here for a decent amount of time, so i guess for me its because its an all inclusive "definition" and we need to be here for each other even if we all dont feel this way....

when you put on female clothes you are not conforming to a male image, gender nonconforming...

[GeorgeA]

Hi Zooey,

I've been a member of this forum for about 6-7 years. By reading thousands of posts I realise that I am not like the majority of posters here. I have written about me in many other posts but let me put it in a nutshell:

I am here because I like to wear skirts & lingerie. That makes me a crossdresser, I guess.

I am a man, strictly heterosexual.

I do not want to be a woman or even to look like one.

I am most comfortable in a skirt, hate trousers and wear them only when necessary.

Somewhere, sometime our society decreed that trousers are for men, skirts for women.

Look around you: There are millions of women wearing trousers. Are they considered crossdressers? No, because they do not disguise their sex, they just look like women in trousers.

I am also like that: I wear skirts but I do not disguise my sex. I am just a man in a skirt. Compare with the previous line (above).

For years, reading posts here, I have wondered: Am I really a crossdresser or not? I am so different from those talking about make-up, jewellery, wigs, women's shoes & boots, "passing", pink fog, etc. All those items I mentioned hold no interest for me.

Last month our local crossdressing group had a Christmas dinner, which I attended in drab and was very well received by all, who really looked like women, and I could have been mislead if I didn't who they are. Next month we had a meeting in a private room of a pub, and this time I was in a skirt, and though I have facial hair was accepted by all again.
One outcome of these meetings was my confirmation of my preference of looking like a man. I would not want to look like them, attractive & fabulous as the are. I want to remain my old male self. In February I will be going again as these are monthly affairs.

Am I a crossdresser? Perhaps, but not a transgender, there is nothing "trans" about my gender.

I just want to state that I am wholly supportive of ALL members here, regardless of which part of the spectrum they inhabit and whatever they may call themselves.

I hope this helps you, Zooey.

[AllieBellema]

I have never had those feelings of "being in the wrong body" or felt like I should have been a woman or anything... however, I do enjoy dressing up as a woman. Do I go out and look perfect... never! I try my best to look as good as possible, but I don't go all out to make myself more woman like. Yeah, I don't mind being treated like a woman if I happen to be in a public setting with one of my dresses, but at the same time I know I'm a guy underneath and I'm ok with that.

So mainly I dress up for the fun of wearing some of the fun dresses that women tend to wear. Probably also explains why I have mostly themed outfits and no "everyday" outfit in my closet!

[Lauri K]

I consider myself a TG since I have been a gender non-conforming person now for so many years, but sometimes I can be a CD I suppose, but what's the difference in the grand scheme of it all.

This is the way it works when you are a member of the "way too girly" club.

FWIW, I thought I was a CD for a long time, but really I feel I am truly a TG heart and soul.

Doesn't matter to me what label you decide to use ladies, just be yourself and wear those clothes out before the moths eat them.

Sorry to go off on a rant here, but we all live in or along the spectrum here and the threads that continue to pop up trying to file us as one or another by specific category................sick of it I tell you, so knock it off with trying to put us into little boxes. I am going to live my life with no specific label or terms, but if asked I am under the TG umbrella for sure.

It is time that we as a community become unified and support each other no matter where we are as individuals along the spectrum..............because nothing remains static............

Many here will provide a whole different response down the road as they progress along the continuum of the spectrum

[Edyta_C]

I started by being dressed and presented as a girl between baby and 5 yrs old. I do have some gender dysphoria, but really can't consider moving toward transition because of health concerns. I am continually amazed at the courage some of you girls have in facing the world. So I guess I am stuck in the middle!

Edy

[VtVicky]

Let's try this: Crossdressing is what we DO if we wear the clothing of the opposite sex. WHY we crossdress has an infinite number of variables. WHO or WHAT we are also has a lot of various shades.

I believe that it is CROSSDRESSING that is the umbrella that brings us all together. For me, CD is more of a fetish than anything else. And since I have been doing it for 50 or 60 years, if I was going to move into a more transgendered arena, I think I would have noticed it by now.

As I read the writings of those who describe them selves as TG, I see a blending of gender identities and feelings. None of which applies to me. There seems to be a gender dysphoria underlying most of the TG self descriptions. As well as the self descriptions of those that describe themselves as transexual. (individuals whose use of crossdressing is in service to expressing a sexual identity issue.)

I mean no disrespect to any one on this spectrum. But, lets differentiate between BEHAVIOR and the underlying issues that drive that behavior.

If we crossdress, we are therefore crossdressers. Whether we are gender dysphoric, drag queens, or fetishists the behavior is the same. It is the motivating issues that are different. And, perhaps, that is where we should look for our definitions of self. If, indeed, we need to attach a label to ourselves or our behavior.

I would also suggest that if we try to understand ourselves by the use of these terms, we must be always cognizant of the infinite variables in our community. No one is exactly like anyone else.

[Judy-Somthing]

If I understand it correctly Cross-dressing is someone who likes wearing women's clothes from just undies/oh I mean panties to full Dress, makeup, and wig.

And transsexual is some one who feels like a women or wants to be a women?

When I was a teen I thought it would be so nice to be a women but, as I got older being a male has it's perks also. So I'm happy being Me.

I also think (live and let live)

Be happy, have fun!

And don't forget to iron your dress, No one likes wrinkles!

[flatlander_48]

Z (or is it M?):

I identify as transgender. I do not consider myself to be 100% male. There is some portion, though relatively small, that does not wish to conform (or be limited) to being male. In numbers, I would guess somewhere between 90%/10% and 75%/25%. This is not based on a medical diagnosis. It is recognition of how easy and comfortable it is for me to slip into an alternate female persona. I move back and forth without difficulty. However, I do not have the sense that this is gender fluidity. I don't wake up feeling one way or the other. If an opportunity presents itself, and I try not to miss any, I dress and enjoy that time.

Anyway, it is helpful that whatever degree of mismatch that I have is not enough to warrant transition. I seem to be pretty happy with where things are. I have spent very little time feeling shame and guilt. It hardly registers with me. I have never purged. I really don't like to speak of DeeAnn in the third person as she is me and I am her. There are not 2 personalities. There is 1 personality with different facets exhibited, or some muted and others emphasized, as a function of presentation. If it was just about the clothes, then I would probably say that I was a crossdresser. But, it is not. Being in the persona takes it out of the realm of "just about the clothes".

Also, usually when I talk about my identity as transgender, I point out that I am not planning to transition. I do that specifically to counteract the notion offered by the popular media that links transgender with transitioning.

DeeAnn

[UNDERDRESSER]

By most definitions, most therapists or similar professionals would say I'm TG, because of my non conforming gender expression. (I wear skirts and hosiery, I like showing off my legs) My issue with that, is who defines what is masculine and feminine expression?

if someone wants to describe me that way, I don't have an issue with it, what is in my head is what matters to me.

[Jazzy Jaz]

I understand TG to be an umbrella term for us. Does that mean that every single CDer fits under this term, possibly not. Salerba makes a good case for why he doesn't. However, in my opinion I feel that in general most of us fit under this term.

[Mayo]

I consider TG to have some component of gender confusion or gender flexibility or more simply, not a black and white definition of gender.
This is what I mean when I think of myself as TG beyond the 'umbrella definition'. I currently don't identify as TG, but as 'non-binary' because I feel that I'm psychically somewhere in the 80:20 or 70:30 female range (even though I present physically as male). That is, I feel I'm something other than just 'male'. When I wear women's clothes I feel that this female portion of me is closer to the surface, or more 'conscious'.

[Secret Drawer]

VtVicky in post #28 makes sense in asking what the underlying reason for our behavior is, rather than worrying over sematics.
After reading thousands of threads over a number of years here, it seems someone claiming to be CD gains some kind of enjoyment from dressing yet feel that they are 100% male and identify that way at all times and even hold fiercely onto that identity.
Someone claiming to be TG is typically less sure what being 100% male actually means and identifies as having a real female component to their minds. This is probably the real difference. This maleness issue. I personally suffer from GD and dress to feel normal, yet I believe myself not quite TS (more like 80/20), because I have never thought that I was trapped in a male body or even expect to know what being a woman would entail... although I don't know what the requirements would be for 100% manliness either?

[suchacutie]

I was born male and didn't rock that boat for 55 years. In hindsight that boat WAS rocking, I just didn't understand it at the time.

Tina is NOT just about wearing the clothes. The trappings of femininity are a certain feedback loop for Tina to help her understand who she is. As you can already see in these words, after the process of transitioning to Tina, the male self is very much left behind in almost every way. It really is startling, no matter how many times I go through that transition, in one direction or the other.

So, to my mind that makes me transgendered (actually I usually use the term "bi-gendered"), since I dress to show myself and everyone else who Tina is. The clothes don't make Tina, but they do help her in many ways. There are two of me in one body. I enjoy both of my lives and don't want to give up either of them. It really is a bit insane when you think about it :)

[Alice Torn]

I can sure relate too what Sometimes Miss has posted. Sounds exactly like me. Caityn Jenner's media fame, no doubt has many thionking CG or TG is just like CJ. I consider myself to be a part time transvestite.

[CallmeAlice]

Transgender is more living the roll of the opposite gender, all the time using pro nouns and what not and not necessarily changing their sex. Sometimes TG people do decide change their sex, but not all.

While a crossdresser doesn't live the roll of a woman, not all the time anyways. While some crossdressers go out in public or maybe even work and even more crossed, most do not. CDers don't normally want to be a woman. While Cders vary from why they cross and for what reasons. They normally do not identify as a woman on their day to day life.

[Zooey]

Thanks everybody for your responses - it's been very interesting to read.

Here's a slightly modified question... For those of you who prefer to identify as CDs (rather than TG), would you also say you identify as strictly cisgender (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisgender)?

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Zooey:hugs:, I'm a fairly normal 73year old guy that likes to dress up and look pretty I really don't
need any label hanging around my neck, It's just who I'm and it's just what I do. ~~...:daydreaming:...

[Jilmac]

In my book TG is an umbrella term that covers the entire spectrum. One of the sub terms is CD which is where I reside because I love to wear feminine clothes and present as femme, but I am a genetic male with no plans to transition.

[stacycoral]

Miss Zooey, girl i call myself a T-girl, which is different than tg or cd, because anymore in the media seems to be like being a TS because they can't use the term TS political correct it is now TG so i am more than what a CD seems but not at a TS by no means, i wish all the girls out there that is making the move the best, for me i always will be not in either group. Hope everything is gong well for you in the Bay. hugs girl

[renellecd]

CD. Im ok with that.

[OCCarly]

Hi Zooey:

I identify as transgender. I am not a cisgender male. "Being male" at this point in my life is a job, and one I do not enjoy. I have a wife I love and want to stay with. She knows I am transgender and lets me express female around the house.

I do want to transition, but I do not think I want bottom surgery, partly because it is invasive and somewhat risky for someone my age, and partly because I've grown rather attached to that part of myself over the years and so has my wife.

So, transgender.

[Katey888]

Here's a slightly modified question... For those of you who prefer to identify as CDs (rather than TG), would you also say you identify as strictly cisgender (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisgender)?

:)


...and with a deft flick of her wrist, the patient angler skillfully embeds the barbed hook in the cheek of the unsuspecting trout... (From 'Fly Fishing' by J R Hartley... ;))

I said this would be fun... :^5:

Katey x

[Zooey]

I said this would be fun... :^5:

Who, me? :)

Seriously, just to be clear, I mean nothing malicious by any of this. I've found all the answers really interesting, and I'm genuinely interested in trying to understand how people here relate to their identities. I've seen a variety of responses I would not have expected.

[Saikotsu]

I identify as TG genderfluid. I make the distinction mainly because I feel that I'm not a crossdresser if I'm dressing to match my internal gender. If I'm a woman on the inside, and I wear women's clothes, I'm not really "cross dressing" am I? You could argue the definition being "a person who wears clothes associated with the opposite gender is a crossdresser," but I'd then ask which is more important in determining whether someone is male or female. Is it their internal sense of self, or their external body? I'm more of the belief internal trumps external. Not everyone would agree.

[Krisi]

Hi all - I'm TS, but I have a question for all of you.

On this forum, everybody who is not a GG is considered "transgender" (TG). I have noticed that some of you identify specifically and explicitly as 'CD, not TG". Similarly, some of you identify as "TG, not just a CD".

What I'd like to know is... Why? What difference(s) are you trying to communicate when you do that?

I would like to know what folks are trying to communicate when they say crossdressers are transgender. How someone who doesn't know me can attempt to define me.

[nikkiwindsor]

I really don't know the best way of defining myself. I guess gender fluid. I have an inner spirit and mindfulness that is both feminine and masculine and more toward the feminine side.

[heatherdress]

I consider TG to have some component of gender confusion or gender flexibility or more simply, not a black and white definition of gender. I am male. I am also a cross dresser. I never think I am female. I don't want to be female, but for some crazy reason, I like to present as a woman from time to time. Even when I am in full girl mode, I am the guy that I always have been. No confusion, no questions, no what-ifs.

Ditto for me.

[ReineD]

I would like to know what folks are trying to communicate when they say crossdressers are transgender. How someone who doesn't know me can attempt to define me.

I'll try to explain.

Every person's gender is comprised of several aspects.

A. The biological gender (your sex).
B. The gender you feel you are (your identity).
C. The gender roles you adopt (what you do, and one of these is how you present).

D. Related, is also who you are sexually attracted to, but this is not part of a person's core gender.


Someone who is NOT transgender (they are instead cisgender) experiences a match between A, B, and C. And if they are hetero, D is oriented to the opposite sex. If they are gay, D is oriented to the same sex.

Traditionally, if A & B matched but the person dressed in opposite sex clothing, we called this cross-dresser. If A & B did not match then we called this transsexual. There were variations/degrees within the realms of B & C (genderqueer, androgyne, etc) and it all fell under the "transgender" (crossing a gender boundary) umbrella.

So if anyone crosses any gender boundary (it doesn't matter which one), then they are transgender. This is not limited to how a person identifies, it can instead be what they do. So if you identify as a male yet you adopt some of the behaviors of the opposite sex (for example, dressing like them), then you are crossing a gender boundary, which is what the word "transgender" means.

Confusion arose these last few years when transsexuals and the media described folks whose "B" did not match their "A" and who were doing something about it (transitioning), as "transgender" without specifying they were of the transsexual variety. There are still some TSs who use the term "transsexual" in this forum, although they may well refer to themselves as "transgender" should they ever be interviewed. Now, a lot of crossdressers believe that adopting the "transgender" label means they do not identify male, so they choose not to.

So it all boils down to having different definitions for the same term. Unfortunately, the assignment of different definitions is why threads like these are difficult to measure. A chunk of non-TS people here will say they are not TG, another chunk will, even though both are similar in that they do not feel they are women and they will not transition.

[Lily Catherine]

CD at bare minimum if anyone wants to call me that, which is already somewhere on the TG spectrum.

I have a female alias, but I wouldn't dissociate it from the rest of me that was raised and socialized as a male. But by virtue of the fact that I certainly don't present entirely as male, and want to look somewhat female, I'm sure it's more than just The Clothes. And I don't want to make myself overly dependent on the clothes themselves - "being myself" for me comes from being first and foremost heartfelt and sincere. The clothes are secondary but still always more than welcome within my circumstances. That might change as my freedoms increase however.

[Tanya+]

Cross gives the feeling of a temporary 'freaky friday' kinda swap. Trans, gives that fluid, spectral slide-into-girlness vibe. Dress is the outer shell, the girl part that rubs on the boy. Gender gives the feel of being-ness. I love to slide into being, moving like, feeling like. I love the process more than the external visuals. So just like nice tight, shiny Nancy Ganz shapewear, I prefer to squeeze myself into 'Transgender' (or 'augmented gender fantasist'). Words have so much feeling, definitions don't always do it justice.

[NicoleScott]

I am a male and identify as one. I like to dress up as a woman, and that, by definition, makes me a crossdresser. It's not my identity that crosses the gender line, but my expression or presentation. That puts me under the TG umbrella, so I am both CD and TG.
For those who identify as TG but not CD, I think it's a way of saying "more than CD, less than TS", in part to separate themselves from those who have a sexual component to their dressing (apparently some people think that's a bad thing). To oversimplify, again for those who identify as TG but not CD, if you dress for pleasure (sexual, emotional, comfort, etc.) you are CD, and if you dress to comform to a strong internal feminine identity, you are TG and by exclusion, not CD.
There is another member with whom I have exchanged many private messages. We have very similar preferences in crossdressing styles and we like to compare thoughts, history, etc. She identifies as CD but not TG. I identify as CD and TG. No biggie. We just define differently. We also talk as much about guy stuff as girl stuff.

[Tina_gm]

Personally I consider crossdressing to be an action that if done for the reason of personal fulfillment.... basically because someone wants to, or feel they need to, then that person is at the least in the spectrum. I personally consider myself to be TG, but I do not identify as TS, which I also consider to be TG. I think that there may be some truly fetish only CDers that have zero other reason to CD, and in no other way identify or feel or emulate the opposite gender, they may not be TG.

[Samantha981]

I may not understand the definitions well (but I've read them :) in the stickies and am learning!) but my thought on how I fit. I suppose I consider myself CD and not TG because I do consider myself male but also like to express an inner femme side. I do not feel I was born female or am a female in a male body. I like to dress as female, not just under garments but full outfits, makeup, jewelry, perfume etc.
I know many will call this TG too, and I am fine with that. Not much of a label person, rather consider myself for who I am - and the same for others. I don't think there are clear lines of separation between CD/TG/TS. It seems there is a continual gradient across the definitions and we all fit somewhere along the line but probably few of us in a simple single bucket.

[prene]

I consider TG to have some component of gender confusion or gender flexibility or more simply, not a black and white definition of gender. I am male. I am also a cross dresser. I never think I am female. I don't want to be female, but for some crazy reason, I like to present as a woman from time to time. Even when I am in full girl mode, I am the guy that I always have been. No confusion, no questions, no what-ifs.

Some times I feel this way.
also sometimes when I am in full girl mode "I am not the guy" ... wish I was a gg.
I am also more relaxed dressed in the girl next door look.
I like but not comfortable in full dress up mode.

But if I was still in my teens, I would explore transitioning much harder.
I have a Therapist and still not sure what I am, but I do not like labels.

Someday I will figure it out