Are there those here that are know inside they are really TS?

[Suzanne F]

As some of you know I began here about 2.5 years ago. In a very deep conversation with my wife I revealed something. She asked me if I wanted to be a woman and I said sometimes. I had only Dressed a few times in my life and was not a crossdresser. I found this site and my wife helped me dress one night that changed my life. I saw myself in the mirror. That lead to a beautiful and difficult journey. I am legally a woman, have been on HRT for 9 months, live 24/7 and will have SRS and BA on May 11th. Yes my wife and I are still together.

I would like to know how many of you feel inside that this is where you are headed. If so, what are your feelings? How many of you feel that you are TS but know you will never transition? I still love to read the posts in this section. I have many forum friends, both crossdressers and TS women, that I see on a regular basis. I will always be grateful that I had this site to come to when I started this journey. Dreams do come true!

Suzanne

[MissDanielle]

I am TS and I am going to start transitioning the moment I move in just over two weeks. Part of me has known since middle school. Raided my mom's closet a few times but that was the extent of things until this past November when things really began to surface again. I've reached the point in which guy clothes are completely unbearable and I'm going to fully come out as trans shortly after I move. And by after I move, I mean as soon as I get a job.

[AllieSF]

I am still figuring this out. I will not impede anything as it happens, but I will also not force or rush anything until the path is clear. All this is new to me, but I (and you) do know that I am more than a CD. Clarity is not easy at all for some late bloomers.

[Curiosity666]

For the longest time I had myself convinced I was "Just a crossdresser". I've never felt "dysphoria" or had any aversion to living as male. However coming out of a relationship and a few other life events have caused me to reevaluate, as well as provide a fair amount of freedom to dress. I concluded that I was actually afraid of the possibility of being transgender, and I cannot say for sure that I am not. This caused a shift in my thinking. I no longer fear that possibility, so I now label myself as questioning. I haven't been out in girl mode, and still have a lot of exploring to do in that regard. What I will do is explore my girl side thoroughly, and hopefully come to a conclusion as to whether I would want to transition or not. I don't really care which was the desicion goes, but I want to be able to say 100% either way, rather then living without knowing who I really am for sure.

[hope springs]

A good question in an appropriate place. For any SOs reading this, dont panic, most dressers are not TS. Having said that:
I have no idea if Im trans or not. Im leaning toward non-binary at this point and lean more toward the feminine. I started therapy last week and will continue until its all sorted out.
My feeling about it are just let it unfold organically. Everyone deserves to live authentically. If i am trans, i will get on low dose HRT to see how it affects me mentally. My wife does waver but is mostly very supportive.
Many trans persons are sure about transition. However there are a small percentage that struggle whether transition is right for them. So just be honest with yourself and dont fear the truth

[Robin414]

OMG, thank you for this post Suzanne! I'm somewhere in between myself and until recently the (gender) fluid was seriously pooling on the pink side but lately it's like the truck stopped accelerating and it's beginning to even out. Not sure if the driver is going to hit a red light and step on the blue pedal...and then stomp on the pink one again 😧

I should totally paint my brake pedal blue and the gas pink...hmmm, what about the clutch though 😂

[mechamoose]

Short answer: Yes.

Somewhat longer answer: It is complicated. I'm probably not the best member to help you.

TS/TG/Gayish.. all *very* blurry lines...

- MM

[Janet161]

Hi Suzanne. I know we have not spoken but I like your posts. I think you are a very sweet person. I know what and who I am. I am TS and it's very real and very serious. I have told my wife and, not surprisingly, she's not real happy about it.
I could not stand telling her that I just have to do this crossdressing thing to express my feminine side or some other minimization technique. I don't like hiding who I really am. I do that enough to the rest of the world, I just couldn't take doing it at home anymore.
I am sure that my situation is not unique here. I have made choices over the years and made commitments and created a life that demands that I keep my true self hidden from most of the world. Does that make me a big chicken? I am afraid it does. So I live with it. It's not a happy existence as many here know.
It's hard to share all these feelings with your spouse because the more you say about it, the more hurtful to her it can be. I do not think that crossdressing is an end in itself or my goal or the answer to my problems. It is a way of coping. A way to keep from losing it. I lost it bad last year and I am digging out from the hole I made. Getting dressed up and going out to an accepting club helps me cope. People say, I don't know why I crossdress. Well, I know exactly why I do it. It's my chance to express my true self. But I know it's only temporary.
Will I ever transition? Great question. I think that I will not. Do I wish that I would/could? Yes I do. I understand how hard it is. I admire you and other people who have done/are doing it.

[sometimes_miss]

I'm sort of on the opposite end of this. For years I thought that I was TS, but wouldn't ever transition because there simply wasn't any way in the world that I could ever be the woman I had wanted to be; I grew up an ugly, unattractive boy, and had experienced all the isolation that went along with that. Did I really want to spend the rest of my life as an unattractive mtf TS woman, and more of the same? Besides, the research hadn't been done yet, not enough information was available, to tell me that what I was feeling wasn't exactly the need to be female. All I knew was that I had grown up believing that I really was, and expected to become, a girl when I reached puberty. Everything I knew pointed to that. It all made sense. And yet, it was all based on misinterpretation of events, brought on by believing a lie told to me by someone else for his own gain. To the average person, it's impossible to describe why it felt so right when I dressed up completely as a girl, and embraced all the feelings and behaviors that I believed girls experienced. All brought on because that's what I thought I was supposed to feel. And that made it real to me. But it was the last part that kept me from doing it, from trying to pursue transitioning. The lack of attraction to men. I couldn't understand why it wasn't there. The 'lesbian in a man's body' concept just didn't make any sense to me. I knew lesbians, and they envied ME my access, as a straight guy, to the most beautiful girls (even though I didn't necessarily go out with them, the remote possibility was there, at least). The mystery gradually unfolded as I slowly discovered how women and men differ in the way we think and experience the world. By the time I came across the Pease's books which documented what I had suspected, I was pretty much convinced, but their research nailed it down. I wasn't a girl at all. All the early evidence I was sure of, was just used to support an erroneous hypothesis. In retrospect, I was fortunate that I had that one doubt, or I may have proceeded, and the severe gender dysphoria I felt might have made me lie my way through the approval process for HRT and SRS. I knew the answers that I would have been expected to give. And it makes me wonder, how many others have faked their way through it all because they really believed what they were doing was the right thing. It all came down to, would I have been happier as a female? I don't think so. Overall, it would simply have been an exchange of one set of problems for another. And as much as I've had periods where I felt very depressed, none of it was debilitating, and I had found ways to enjoy parts of my life even while having this odd uncomfortable feeling about what I was, always lingering in the background of my mind.

[Jazzy Jaz]

I am fixed (meaning I don't fluctuate) bigender (roughly 50/50). Because of this I do experience gender dysphoria but I also am comfortable in my male body. My personality, emotions, inside etc is completely mixed but my body is male so physically I don't get the balance that I need and CDing isn't quite enough. If I could magically pick but it had to be one body or the other I would choose female but in that case I would still be the roughly 50% male on the inside. The reason I would choose a female body would be for sexual/beauty/dressing purposes. I would just love to actually fit the female clothes I wear properly and wear them in public not as a CDer but as a woman. I would also love to enjoy sex as a female. In a female body I could still wear male clothes and look "great" in them and fit in with society still as a woman where in a male body I would not fit/blend in and would be looked at (including by me) as a CDer. Nothing wrong with being a CDer but I dress wishing to be a woman in the mirror not a CDer. Plus the fashion that I like does not blend in unless at something formal/sexy but in a womans body even if I didn't blend in it would be because I look good.

However the ultimate solution for me would be to be able to switch back and forth between bodies. I still definately enjoy sex as a man and like my look as a man in drab. Because I am a mix of both genders and I am for the half part comfortable in my male body, and also I feel that I was born into this body as a bigender/TG person for a reason, I do not feel that transition is right for me. Also I love being my gf's bf. Thus I am condemned to indefinate mild/medium gender dysphoria.

[Curiosity666]

If I could magically pick but it had to be one body or the other I would choose female but in that case I would still be the roughly 50% male on the inside. The reason I would choose a female body would be for sexual/beauty/dressing purposes.

I wonder though, if the reason that you say you would pick a female form is down the the "novelty factor". As you haven't truly experienced having a female body you feel like you want to try it out. However, maybe you would regret that in a few years and want to go back to having a male body?

[ringo]

I have been dressing since my childhood. I thought i was just a crossdresser until recently : i feel more and more uncomfortable with male clothes and it even happened that i almost cried unpacking my luggage ^^" everytime i have to go outside and change to male clothes i feel terrible. Recently i have let my fem side express more and more. I don't know what it means. Wednesday i will join a support group to find out once and for all who i am and what i need :)

[steftoday]

Like Allie stated; I'm still trying to figure it out. I've felt "different" since about age 5. If I look deep down inside, I'd say "maybe so".

Janet61's post is pretty spot on, too. We make choices and commitments, and live with that path and those choices. In retrospect, sometimes I wish I could have taken a different path.

I hang out in the TS section, and I read all the posts there, (including you Suzanne). I admire these women so much, and am in awe of their courage and strength.

[pamela7]

Rather like curiosity666, i thought initially CD, but as i allowed myself the processing space and time, everything fell into place and crystalised into TS; my life fits this like Cinderella's slipper fits her foot.

[Launa]

I think that I could be but at my age I won't go down the long road. If I knew in my teens what I know now I would have to really consider it. Its a hard thing to stop when it feels so right.

[Teresa]

Suzanne,
I had to try gender counselling to try and find the answer, I'm comfortable where I am now knowing I'm just on the male side of the line, there is a conflict in my head and the male side wins out. This goes right back to my childhood and has remained with me till this day, dressing satisfies the female needs but it is a constant need that sometimes has to be suppressed. Unlike some members I can only go days between not weeks or months.

My wife and family know about my CDing, but my wife prefers not to be involved, she knows I'm not gay . I have a normal relationship with women in drab and an enhanced one dressed, in fact I partly dress to attract women. My counsellor considered this and appeared comfortable with the term male lesbian. In fact if I'd been born a woman I would be Bi or a lesbian, having no interest in men sexually at all.

[Jenny22]

In my childhood (late 40s, early 50s), I wanted to be a girl so I could dress like my older sisters and be pretty. I did whenever I had the chance. This was before puberty, and certainly wasn't for sexual reasons. I had no idea there was a term for it (TV) until many years later, and then I read everything (library) I could on the subject, because I was one. In those tender years I still dreamed of being a girl (GD?). When I married and had intimate times with my wife, I would often imagine that I was participating as the female. My dear wife knew of this so she didn't discourage my need to dress (CD?) to express my feminine side (TG?). She knew of my dream to be a female (TS?). But in those days, SRS was really unknown compared to how it become later. Regardless, due to lack of funds and aging, SRS was not going to happen. So, I remained TG, with regrets, but I am happy with a loving wife, and that's what counts, now. I hope all of this makes sense in my trying to answer Suzanne's questions.

[Suzanne F]

I love these heart felt responses! I know that I am very lucky to have found so much support to go through this. It breaks my heart that people have had to give up being themselves to make others happy. However, I understand that and I appreciate what you have done for your families. I want my very public transition to have a larger meaning. I hope that in some way I will make it easier for young TS women to avoid having to make such a choice.
Suzanne

[OCCarly]

I've spent my whole adult life in denial about it, but the bottom line is, my blood pressure runs about 20 points higher when I spend a day in boy mode than when I am in girl mode. And I want so badly to transition. But my wife does not want me to be publicly out, and I love her and want to stay married. I keep hoping and praying society will change, and fighting for small victories, like recent trips out partially dressed. But yes, I know deep down that I am transgender/transsexual.

[missjoann]

Suzanne...I know very much about your difficult journey as I had taken that road many years ago, and I am not sorry that I did...I am very happy now being who I am...I am also very glad for you hat you have a very supporting wife during this difficult time

[AlyssaS]

I have zero sexual attraction to men and the thought of having a vagina makes me ill. But I want a more feminine body --- I want breasts, curves, and soft skin. I don't know what that makes me. If I never met my wife and had kids, I might have transitioned an stopped before the final surgery, but now I enjoy the male part of sex too much to do that. So I do what I can.

[MissDanielle]

Not everyone who goes on HRT undergoes SRS. If you underwent hRT, you'd have a lower libido but you'd have everything else.

[Robyn2006]

As I always think to myself, if I won the lottery I'd be on HRT in a heartbeat... but for now, it's not in the cards.
All I know is that I'm only happy, truly myself when my outside matches the woman I am inside. It's not a fetish, not a distraction...

[AlyssaS]

Can you remain sexually functional with HRT? My understanding was that the doses required to have any significant breast development/fat redistribution would mean that it's not just a lower libido, but a loss of erections.

[Zooey]

Not everyone who goes on HRT undergoes SRS. If you underwent hRT, you'd have a lower libido but you'd have everything else.

As a person who who has not yet had SRS, but has been on HRT for a while, I'll just say that this is not quite true. You may still have the equipment, but i can pretty much guarantee you that at some point it will stop working the way it used to. Without getting too graphic, I'll just say that I've got about a third of what I used to have, and what's left doesn't really work the same way at all.

[AlyssaS]

As a person who who has not yet had SRS, but has been on HRT for a while, I'll just say that this is not quite true. You may still have the equipment, but i can pretty much guarantee you that at some point it will stop working the way it used to. Without getting too graphic, I'll just say that I've got about a third of what I used to have, and what's left doesn't really work the same way at all.

This was my understanding, and it's not really what I want anymore. If I go back 12 years before I met my wife, if I had the resources I have now, I might have chose that, but I'm happy with this life now and I don't think I want to go that direction and lose what I have.

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Suzanne:hugs:, I'm totally happy having the best of both worlds. ~~...:daydreaming:...


May all of your paths on your new life's journeys be covered with Rose Petals and Sunshine !:love:

[Jamiegirl1]

Hi, I am a late bloomer when it comes to crossdressing and finding out how feminine I am and love being...I was in my early thirties when I started dressing, If I had known this side of me before I got married, I would probably be a fulltime woman now, I am 57.....I can't see myself transitioning now in my life, however I would love to have breasts and a lovely fem figure,if I was to suddenly find myself single, I may do things differently though....I guess I am TG

[Jazzy Jaz]

I wonder though, if the reason that you say you would pick a female form is down the the "novelty factor". As you haven't truly experienced having a female body you feel like you want to try it out. However, maybe you would regret that in a few years and want to go back to having a male body?

I totally get what you're saying but I'm as certain as can be that I would enjoy a female body. Those aren't the only reasons why I would be comfortable being the opposite sex, they're just the most exciting ones. I know that there are not so fun things about being a biological woman but there are pros and cons of having a male body also and I surely know which one I would pick. However this is the body I was gifted and I'm half ok with that. I'm keeping in mind that at least I have a body and am therefore greatful and because I'm part male on the inside I can live with that. If I were TS then that might be a different story.

[grace7777]

I started in late 2007 my adventure into the cd/tg/ts world. It was not until early 2011 that I went out fully dressed en femme in public. When I first went out in 2011 I thought it was just about the clothes. I thought going out once a month would be enough. Back then I went out in the evening or at night only. Around the middle of 2013 for the first I was out in public for a full day dressed en femme.

In April of 2014 I took a 5 day trip to Chicago and presented as a female for the whole trip from leaving my apartment in Phoenix until returning to my apartment in Phoenix. It was a great feeling. The depressing part was having to go to work the next day in male mode. Toward the Second half of 2014 I seriously started to consider the idea of transitioning. At that point if I was not at work I was in all likelihood presenting and living as a woman.

With each day that passes the desire to transition grows stronger and stronger. The more gender dyspepsia I feel when in male mode. I have still not made a final decision, but I feel happiest when presenting as a woman. Male mode is so depressing.

[AmberDay]

I am TS. Like many individuals in the transgender spectrum I wanted to be a woman desperately while growing up. When I met my wife in college, all those desires to change melted away. I told her I crossdressed a few months into dating. It was a shock for her, but as long as she didn't see it, it didn't bother her. A couple of years after we got married, the dysphoria came back like a ton of bricks. I tried to fight it, but the more and more I kept myself in a box the more suicidal I became. I finally tried to kill myself May of 2011. I knew I couldn't live as a male anymore and I knew I couldn't transition because everybody (my wife, my mom, my friends, my inlaws etc) told me the psychological harm that would come to my kids if they knew their dad was transgender and saw him transition. Well what parent wouldn't want to save their kids? If being transgender was a danger to my kids, I had an obligation to protect them. I obviously failed in my suicide attempt. After a lot of therapy, I realized I couldn't live as 'him' anymore and was wanting to transition. I told my wife I think I have to transition. My wife told me she wanted a divorce. I didn't blame her. Crossdressing is one thing, changing genders is another. We decided to do marriage counseling as one last shot. It worked (in regards to saving my marriage). We negotiated several items. She would not accept any surgeries or hormones. She will let me dress as Amber when she is not around. Thankfully she works first shift and the kids are in school during the day and I work second shift. The things I would not budge on were: I will shave my legs, underarms, and the top of my chest. One major issue she had was with me going out in public. That was also non negotiable. I will go out to my therapist and any other public place dressed as Amber. She wanted me to keep confined to the bedroom and the living room. I will converse with others like me. One thing that really helped keep us together is love. Love was never an issue. We still loved each other which helped.

It is not easy. I cry all the time. I can't even look in the mirror. I hate acting manly at work and around her and the kids, but I do it. I have discussed this at length with my therapist. I have had several friends tell me I should just transition to be happy. I am still horribly depressed. People don't understand though. I am depressed that I was assigned the wrong gender at birth. I am depressed I can't fix the wrong that happened to me at conception. I am depressed that I have to deAmberfy every day at 3pm. But I would be equally depressed if I did not have my wife, my kids, my house, my job, etc. Yes, changing genders will cure my dysphoria, but would cause the same equal level of depression by losing all that I love.

I tell people I am a non op transexual.

It sucks.

Amber

[Saikotsu]

Had you asked me a week ago, I'd probably have said no. Now, I'm not really sure. I'm relatively certain I'm transgender, specifically gender fluid. Some days I have dysphoria and feel I'm really a woman in a man's body. Other days I'm 100% guy. I usually feel mixed, but lately, I've been going over to the feminine side more often and staying there longer. It's a little disconcerting honestly.Does it mean I should transition? I don't quite think so. As I stand now,i feel that transition solves nothing for me. if I was a woman on the outside, there would still be days where I would feel like a man. Then the dysphoria would be just as strong, but it would be reversed. Anyway,for the time being, in just riding the wave, seeing where it takes me.

[Barbara Dugan]

I"ve been years on this site and always identify as closet Gay Crossdreser, but deep inside I knew this was the easy way to deal with my gender issues.
This day I am on my path to transition I am out to my family and friends ,started HRT and I have a boyfriend that is supporting me on this path.
Today life is good and I can safely "I am TS"

[Dana44]

For me, oh wow. heck i'm already half there as my hormones are pretty female already. My libido is still good go figure. And while I'm older i know all the herbs and stuff that can get me there. IT does take longer but it does work and I'm working on it slowly. Is it truly what i want? I'm still trying to figure that out. It is crazy but gender dysphoria is a high problem for us gender benders. But hey, if we are trying to find our path i wonder why the TS folks don't like us because we are with them in spirit and we have similar issues as you that that are on HRT. One thing I do know is that I take the herb for my prostrate and even that herb is feminine. I think it is important to do the right things. SO yes I'm TS but do not know where I''ll end up.

[gabriella1964]

Ive been here only a cpl weeks and really dont know what to think about alot of the post, what I do know is that I have alot of memories from my childhood that make me want to cross dress as an adult. My wife helps me dress and we go out together, id never tell my family and esp not my mother. I think that for me I love my family and wife so much that it would kill them to know what I do in private places. It doesn't make me feel like im in prison and Im not unhappy as a male , I love women and when dressed its women I want to get attention from. When Ive got those things im glad to get back to what i was born with. So for me as Gabriella im happy and never have any intention of using hrt . I daily wear panties , shave my body, and sit to pee and have for a cpl years, and this all makes me happy. I know that there are people who disagree but thats what makes me a happy cd and hope it helps others. Gabriella

[Jenniferathome]

... I had only Dressed a few times in my life and was not a crossdresser. ...

Suzanne, I have a question that relates to this statement. But first, as you have stated in another thread response to me, I am most assuredly not TS. To nail that point home, when we first met, you were in jeans and a top and I was in a sequins cocktail dress, ok it was for the holiday party, but what screams cross dress more? :) I'm just a "normal cross dresser" (that still cracks me up every time). Anyway, you are clearly not a cross dresser.

The thing I am curious about is why did you not cross dress A LOT more. Did dressing not align you more to your self-image? What I seem to read from the many mosts over the last few years is that those who are TS think they are cross dressers but come to realize over time they are TS (perhaps this is simple denial mechanism?). These individuals are few, to be sure, but your thesis is interesting. Is it that you came to understand your TS nature before cross dressing was relevant to you? Just curious and feel free to ignore if this got too personal.

Take care,

[becky77]

Hi Jennifer

I can't answer for Suzanne but for me it was a double edged sword.
In one way crossdressing allowed me a glimpse of who I felt I was inside, but on the other hand I think it made me feel worse.
I guess as TS the primary goal for Transition is to be authentic and one of the biggest driving factors for that was an end to all the hiding and pretending to be someone else.

It's one thing to hide your interest in female clothing it's so much more to hide your actual identity and personality.
I think we all understand the 'Need' to dress, by instead of a need to wear the clothes, my need was to be myself. Unfortunately the Crossdressing compounds the issue as I was left feeling hollow rather than enjoying it.

The reasons a TS and CD crossdress are wholly different, yet they appear the same. Born one gender wearing clothes of the opposite gender. It's this appearance of a link between the two that has so many TS think they are CDers initially.

[Jenniferathome]

Becky, so glad you jumped in. This, "...Unfortunately the Crossdressing compounds the issue as I was left feeling hollow rather than enjoying it." is kind of what I assumed it must be for you. OK, since I'm asking. I recall when you first joined. Did you "know" you were TS or were you in denial hoping you were "just a normal cross dresser"?

I'm glad you found your way, by the way!

[Richelle423]

from an early age I would say 5 or 6 yrs old I would tell my parents "I'm a female" or "whats my maiden name"? then get corrected that I was a boy. In my teenage YEARS I always felt I was born in the wrong body. I represed these feelings as I got older. I n the past few years these feelings resurfaced I don't know what to do. I wear women's clothes everyday except I still wear men work boots and still have a man's hair cut. On my day off from work I really enjoy being en femme i.e. wearing make-up etc. I have such a great feeling of peace when I am dressed like a female. I very rarely wear anything manly anymore.

[Tina_gm]

I would say I am definitely TG, but I do not see myself as TS. From what I have read in the TS section regardless if you actually transition or not, your identity is fully opposite your birth gender. While I believe there are some CDers who in no way identify opposite their birth gender, and do so only for fetish reasons, a lot of us do have certain feminine internal identity. It is what drives us to dress, which a lot of society still is at the least, not comfortable with. In some places, it still gets quite nasty and a lot of people still will not accept it or us. Something that has the power over us to make us buck societal norms to that degree, there is some reality in there with it.

I personally believe that CDers and TS have the same phonomenon, if you want to call it that.... condition perhaps. But whatever IT is, it is the same. What makes a TS different is the cross gender identity and need for expression, to be authentic as I hear described as much as anything, is for the TS it is complete. In all ways they identify as opposite. The CDer, many, not all have a partial identity that is female, feminine at least, but it is real.

There are moments when I think I feel like a woman trapped in a man's body. Sometimes intense, other times not. During the intense times, being female sounds good, I wish I was. I have thought about transition, or just opening up my life to being transgender, and living however whenever wherever. There are things that stop me though. Those things that stop me.... and there are several mean that I do not identify completely, otherwise they would not hold the power over me they do.

I just want to say this is my personal opinion. I know many CDers and TS feel that there is a big difference. I think it comes from the same thing, but the completeness of it is what makes it different, not its origin.

[becky77]

I recall when you first joined. Did you "know" you were TS or were you in denial hoping you were "just a normal cross dresser"?


I best not say "Just a normal crossdresser" as someone always bashes me for it.

I always knew it was more than the clothes but the shame and plenty of denial kept me from looking for answers until it was too unbearable. I met plenty of crossdressers but it wasn't until I met a TS the penny dropped.
I was too busy trying to make being a man work, I came to the CD forum because that's the best I knew yet it never felt quite right, something was missing or I just couldn't relate.

[Suzanne F]

Sorry Jennifer I just saw this. So the few times I did dress, once for powder puff cheerleader in high school and one bad Halloween attempt, my brain screamed this is the way you are supposed to be. But I could not face it! I had always struggled so mightily to be the man. I grew up in Kentucky so scared someone would know or be able to tell. I can't really share how deep my shame and humiliation ran. I fought it at every turn becoming a hard drinker, someone who fought and even joining the infantry in the Army. So I think I knew if I ever cross dressed it would lead to transition. When my wife and I finally addressed this issue that is what happened. I have to admit also that I could only admit to her in stages as I would really confront what I am. I am not proud of this but that was the process.

I think that for me what is important is that I finally get to be me in relationship to the world. My relationships with people are deeper and fuller. I don't have to hide me anymore. I tell the truth now instead of artfully lying or hiding my real opinions or thoughts. It is such a relief! Don't get me wrong I do love my wardrobe more than ever in my life. I work as a professional woman and had a skirt on yesterday with hose and short heels. I feel pretty most days now and God I wanted that! I look at Jennifer and Rachael with their beautiful taste in clothes and I am envious. I wish for my wife's sake it could have been Crossdressing as the answer.

I hope this answered your questions Jennifer. If it didn't please ask more. I want to be transparent and I don't mind examining my process. I am scheduled for SRS and BA on May 12th. That choice should hold up to scrutiny and I invite discussion around it.

Suzanne

[Jenniferathome]

Hey Suzanne, I think both you and Becky articulated what I assumed was true about those that transition: you "knew" but fought the knowledge due to the consequences that it might bring. Many comment here that one starts as a cross dresser an then progresses to TS but they are really two very distinct things. I have often written that I KNOW I am a just cross dresser and I KNOW it will never be more than that. In fact, I know just like you and Becky knew. But I always get the "never say never" responses. Odd, eh.

Somehow, there seems to be a general belief that cross dressing leads to transition when in fact cross dressing is really just coincident to transsexualism or transition. I'll bet that I cross dress more than you and Becky and likely many more, combined but I'm still just a cross dresser (a normal one Becky:heehee:). Spouses reading here can easily reach the wrong conclusion and reasonably believe that a leads to b when a and b are two wildly different things. So strange this human condition.

I wish you the best, hope we can bump into each other sometime again,

[becky77]

You can't become TS, you either know something is up early on or it's buried beneath denial but either way it's always there.

You can't blame TS people for trying to avoid transition because transition can be brutal.
You don't have to be TS to Transition though and just because you transition doesn't make you TS either.
Why anyone would want to crossdress full-time when they identify as male is beyond me.
It's still a man's world so enjoy the best of both if you can.
I felt compelled to do it, I was at my wits end and would never choose it.

One definitely doesn't lead to the other though, however some people are extroverts and they have no issue being openly Trans, I would imagine these people still have a level of Gender Dysphoria to want to face the difficulties of full-time.
Those who seek Transition but are not female identified often have disastrous times and detransition (going back) is well known. It just isn't a lot of fun living as a woman all the time if you think more like a man.
Once the novelty of the clothes wears off what then?

It's a shame more people aren't as honest as you are about this. There is nothing wrong with a man enjoying feminine things and looking feminine that doesn't mean he has to have some element of a female identity.

It's the fudging of the truth and this idea that we are all under one umbrella or a spectrum that meant I spent years trying to discover my problem in Crossdressing circles (getting more and more unhinged) rather than learning about what it is to be TS.

[Tina_gm]

To Becky, and anyone else- this is just my opinion.... But I never quite understand why the concept that CDing and someone who is TS can't come from the same origins. I see TS and CDers a like both sometimes vehemently oppose this idea. Because it has origins does not mean that TS and CD are completely alike. I fully understand that it is far from that. I understand that our lives alter significantly.

At least on here, for most CDers, it is far from just clothing or appearance. The clothing may be (for a CDer) the most vital aspect of their cross gender behavior, but for a majority on here, it isn't just clothes or appearance alone that drives them.

AGain, this is just my opinion, but in so many things in life, partial versus completeness offers two entirely different outcomes so often. I see the same with this as well. I respect other opinions on this, and I am not looking to start some great contest over who is right or wrong. I personally just see certain elements that align to both CDers and TS. Part of the time vs all of the time makes the outcome of our lives so different, yes. I personally believe that a CDers femininity is every bit as real as a GG, or a TS. Because they also have masculinity, or their femininity may not be as complete makes it no less real.

[arbon]

... articulated what I assumed was true about those that transition: you "knew" but fought the knowledge due to the consequences that it might bring.

,


I relate a lot to what Suzzane said about her fear of where crossdressing would go if she did it. I dressed and went out twice in my life prior to starting down the road to transition - both halloween events. The first when I was only around 21 or so. What happened was not pretty and quickly found myself in seeing a psychiatrist after. The second in 2008 was a catalytic event that left in deep depression for over year and led me to transition. Likewise, when people like my wife would try to get me to seek help with what was wrong with me (they did not know what was really wrong, but knew something was wrong) I would not do it because I knew what door it would open up and that scared me. Most of my life was about shoving down what was inside.

When i came here it was trying to see if I could learn to better express myself with the cloths and find a way to enjoy crossdressing in the hope it would quiet the demons inside. Failed! Did not work, I could not even start to get into the crossdressing stuff. I did not relate to most of the discussions and really was not into all the talk about cloths and that. The last thing I wanted to be was a man wearing womens cloths (not that there is anything wrong with it, but it was not me). After getting here I pretty quickly ended up in the ts side. I related more to them. I hated being a man no matter what cloths I was wearing. I could never understand why I felt that way, but I did.

[Zooey]

At least on here, for most CDers, it is far from just clothing or appearance. The clothing may be (for a CDer) the most vital aspect of their cross gender behavior, but for a majority on here, it isn't just clothes or appearance alone that drives them.

AGain, this is just my opinion, but in so many things in life, partial versus completeness offers two entirely different outcomes so often. I see the same with this as well. I respect other opinions on this, and I am not looking to start some great contest over who is right or wrong. I personally just see certain elements that align to both CDers and TS. Part of the time vs all of the time makes the outcome of our lives so different, yes. I personally believe that a CDers femininity is every bit as real as a GG, or a TS. Because they also have masculinity, or their femininity may not be as complete makes it no less real.

I understand where you're coming from, and I respect you for saying that. That said, I strongly disagree. I'm about to say a bunch of stuff, but please know first of all that none of this is about you or any other person in particular. I'm talking about how I perceive the general population here.

I read this forum quite a lot, especially lately, because we've been having this type of discussion for a little while now. I do see a lot of people here claiming to have some "deeper connection to women" or "a really strong feminine side" or how "when they put on the clothes, they really become the girl". Every once in a while somebody talks about how they "would consider transition if they could be young and pretty". And on and on and on, implying that it's 'more than just the clothes".

Now, there are some people on this forum who I would actually say are probably TS and just haven't realized it yet, or who appear to actually be HRT-bound but haven't started shifting to the TS forum yet. There are a few people here who I've read enough of to genuinely believe that they are something in-between - neither man nor woman. I've met at least one such member here in person, and I don't question her identity one bit. Ignoring those people though, in almost every other case the post that follows contains some fairly superficial, externally-focused, and rather masculine descriptions/discussions of femininity and womanhood, or at least the physical trappings thereof.

Which somewhat obviously makes sense, since the majority of you are men.

I don't question the CD experience at all - I believe it is obviously real. Everybody's notion of "femininity" is entirely valid to them, and I say do your thing. That said, the differences in thought process and motivation between most of the CDs and the TSs here are fundamental. We are not full-time CDs, you are not part-time TSs, and that is completely fine as far as I'm concerned. All of this is a matter of perspective, and I can obviously understand how from a man's perspective people feel (and almost certainly are) far more feminine in some ways. From at least this woman's perspective though, most folks here really just don't get it the vast majority of the time, and that's fine too.

[Tina_gm]

While ultimately the end game of the life of a CDer and that of someone is TS becomes so different, my personal belief that the entire TG spectrum is very fluid. By that I mean that there is not the lines in concrete which make up the black and white contrast of a CDer and a TS person. There are defininetly some who are always simply the CDer, will never become more and never could. There is a big grey area though which grows stronger and stronger toward being TS, and I think a fair amount of the members here, myself included fall into the grey area. I think a person can be "close" to being TS, but not quite there. They are definitely far more on the fem side of their internal identity, but still not quite enough that transition is the right choice for them to make.

I think the confusion some members have when it comes to TS is that especially seeing some of those self made transition videos, the ones with the timelines and showing the progression, I think a lot of CDers can somewhat identify with those videos. they see at least a portion of themselves in those videos. CDers and TS women start off very much the same, and have so many similar feelings about themselves. The CDer can eventually find a harmonious balance, whereas the TS woman will only find the happiness with being authentically female as much as possible.

I use the word phenomenon, which often sounds like some space alien or super spiritual power.... but the word is correctly used in scientific terms of those who have cross gender issues, either full, or partial to whatever extent. It is a rare occurrence. The closer one gets to full opposite their birth gender identity, the more rare it gets. The line is a bit blurry at times, causing a lot of confusion for both TS who have a hard time accepting they are, and feel they can somehow CD enough to be happy in life, as well as CDers, who see similarities of TS women and often begin to think they are one, and would transition if only.

Ultimately I agree with you Zooey, that those who truly are TS, their path, their life is so markedly different then that of a CDer. I just do believe though that the CDer and those who are TS, it is from the same phenomenon. It doesn't mean they are all essentially the same, it just originates from something that has caused cross gender internal issues

[Megan G]

I think a person can be "close" to being TS, but not quite there. They are definitely far more on the fem side of their internal identity, but still not quite enough that transition is the right choice for them to make.


if this person has a "female identity" to some extent would this not by definition make them genderqueer or genderfluid to some degree and not a cross dresser? I have no issue with saying that the cause of this genderfluid people and TS would definitely be linked somehow because you are talking about identity issues. These people as well would suffer from some level of GD..

But for someone that identifies as 100% male but enjoys cross dressing for what ever reason, I do not believe that they are the same as TS's. If it was you would see the conversations between the two groups be more similar in nature and not focused on the superficial aspect of feminity

[Jane G]

I am for some reason a little surprised by the huge variation of answers in this thread I thought I knew what a diverse bunch we are, but this is a fascinating and refreshing thread if ever there was one. I started reading it thinking I knew what I was going to write but then I read a few quite different replies, one from Sometimes-Miss and another from OCCarly and I'm thinking either or both of those could be me. Any way right through my teens I was certain I was TS. Then again in my mid thirties to early forties, that's when I started then stopped after two months taking Hormones. I still think quite regularly about it.

Simple fact is though I enjoy my life as it is. I don't suffer by having a male body. I'm free to dress, regularly. So whether or not I am TS I'm still me.

[Tina_gm]

if this person has a "female identity" to some extent would this not by definition make them genderqueer or genderfluid to some degree and not a cross dresser? I have no issue with saying that the cause of this genderfluid people and TS would definitely be linked somehow because you are talking about identity issues. These people as well would suffer from some level of GD..

But for someone that identifies as 100% male but enjoys cross dressing for what ever reason, I do not believe that they are the same as TS's. If it was you would see the conversations between the two groups be more similar in nature and not focused on the superficial aspect of feminity

AGAIN- I am not comparing CDers and TS women as being one in the same, I really am not. TS women especially can be sooo adamant that they are so different from a CDer, yet, often times spending many years thinking they are just a CDer. CDers sometimes spend years thinking they are more, until they start walking the path and then realize they really are not.

I fully 1000000000% agree that a CDer and a TS woman are fundamentally different. I am just saying that the cross gender thing whatever this thing is, is an origin. It branches out and becomes more for some than others, and it can become so opposite of birth gender to the point where the identity is complete opposite (TS) but sheeesh, how many people on here spend how much time in therapy and in crisis because they do not know what they are? Yes, yes yes yes, the end came is completely different. The amount of confusion and the years it often takes for people to really figure out if they are or are not leads me to believe that the origin of what makes someone TG is the same. If it is such a difference, why is it so hard to figure it out. It is the origin of TG which helps cause the confusion. You can build all kinds of different things with the same stuff, but get an entirely different result.... lets just say the same building blocks?

[Jenniferathome]

You can't become TS, you either know something is up early on or it's buried beneath denial but either way it's always there....
Why anyone would want to crossdress full-time when they identify as male is beyond me.
I felt compelled to do it, I was at my wits end and would never choose it.
... this idea that we are all under one umbrella or a spectrum that meant I spent years trying to discover my problem in Crossdressing circles (getting more and more unhinged) rather than learning about what it is to be TS.


...fear of where crossdressing would go if she did it. I dressed and went out twice in my life prior to starting down the road to transition ... I knew what door it would open up and that scared me. Most of my life was about shoving down what was inside.

When i came here it was trying to see if I could learn to better express myself with the cloths and find a way to enjoy crossdressing in the hope it would quiet the demons inside. Failed! Did not work, I could not even start to get into the crossdressing stuff. I did not relate to most of the discussions...


... I strongly disagree.... the differences in thought process and motivation between most of the CDs and the TSs here are fundamental. We are not full-time CDs, you are not part-time TSs...


...But for someone that identifies as 100% male but enjoys cross dressing for what ever reason, I do not believe that they are the same as TS's. If it was you would see the conversations between the two groups be more similar in nature and not focused on the superficial aspect of feminity

First, allow me to thank the ladies here that have responded to something that can only be the most personal thing in their life. I can't imagine what you have gone through and this is, of course, because I'm just a cross dresser.


... There are defininetly some who are always simply the CDer, will never become more and never could. There is a big grey area though which grows stronger and stronger toward being TS...[/QUOTE

Mutt, the clear message from those in the know is that you don't BECOME trans. I would compare this to being straight or gay or whatever. I never chose to be straight. I was always hetero. Gay people don't choose to be gay, they ARE. You don't become either.

[QUOTE=gendermutt;3892173]...CDers and TS women start off very much the same, and have so many similar feelings about themselves....

Read the tidbits above. Cross dressers and TS do NOT start the same. That's the misconception that still leads wives to think their husband will transition. It is merely coincidence that we both dress. Zoey used the right word to describe the difference in thought process: FUNDAMENTAL.

[Tina_gm]

I know, I know, this TG thing is separated by titanium walls several feet thick.It is quite a wonder to me that it takes people years to figure out where they are in it all with such a strong division.... :idontknow: I guess I will just have to go on believing what I believe and just be ok with it, which I really am anyway.

I really am not and have never stated that CDers and TS are in any way the same thing. Two very different things, it just comes from the same place, but ends up creating different lives.

[becky77]

How does it come from the same place?
That's the bit I'm not understanding can you elaborate as I don't want to misunderstand your meaning.

Using a MtF example below.

If I say:
A TS is a woman internally that is born male sexed, grown up male socialised but the internal identity causes enough problems to surface so much so that many are compelled to Transition.
A Crossdresser (not gender fluid or inbetweener, just a crossdresser) is a man internally that is born male sexed and socialised as male yet has a real interest in female attire and need to express their feminine side.

How are the above two starting from the same place?

I use the two polar opposites above as an example because the grey areas in between are a minefield.

[Tina_gm]

The starting point is femininity. While there are definitely those who are no doubt TS, and those who are no doubt, JCDers, who not even when dressed ever feel or consider themselves anything but a guy, the minefield is a pretty darn large one for the majority of all who reside within the TG spectrum, which runs from the casual CDer to the TS. While most who are either in the CD side or the TS side do their best to establish a stone wall between the two, I am not convinced that one exists that is so contrasting. It can be for the most polar opposites within the spectrum.

Ultimately though, when one fully identifies as TS and is willing to begin living life in their identity, their lives are the ones who are most impacted by far. Yes, then it truly does become a big difference in the end, because rather than allotting a set amount of room for the femininity, or part of or however someone wishes to consider it, a TS person truly lives their life fully opposite their birth gender.

The minefield though, wow, I mean you see it all the time on here... the confusion that so many face, and sometimes taking many many years to figure out. If it was such a black and white division, we wouldn't be seeing so many who are not TS, but sometimes think they might be, begin going down the path only to realize it really isn't what they should be doing. TS people who think for the longest time they are not TS, just very feminine side CDers, if that even.

I am in no way trying to redefine anyone any more or less, lump us all in together as one big batch of TG. I am no trying to do anything like that. But, I do see that grey area so many of us reside in, the femininity that resides with all of us, and all of what we go through because of it. There are commonalities here, IMO, and that is not something that most on either side wants, but it is something I personally feel exists.

[Julia Welch]

I've never wanted to be a girl, I just like wearing their clothing ... I'm not attracted to other guys in any way, so I guess I'm just a plain old CD ...

[Shayna]

I've never wanted to be a girl, I just like wearing their clothing ... I'm not attracted to other guys in any way, so I guess I'm just a plain old CD ...

I think you can still be a plain old CD even if you are attracted to other men. Dressing and sexuality, and for that matter gender are not the same thing.

[sometimes_miss]

I really am not and have never stated that CDers and TS are in any way the same thing.
And yet, why not? People can be bisexual, why can't we self identify as not just one or the other, but both male and female? Time and again, we read on these very forums how much some feel very female, even though they live a typical male life much of the time, only to come home and dress, think, and do their best to behave as they think a woman does, try to think like a woman does, and want to walk, talk, move and feel emotions like a woman does, even though it's quite clear that there are huge differences between ourselves and the women we idolize? Sure, we can't ever know exactly what living an entire lifetime as a girl is like, but we do our best to try to understand it, and search endlessly in the pursuit of knowing more. What's more, we're not alone. Women have been doing this for the last 50 years now; taking the best of both sexes, and embracing it. Why can't we do the same? Just because the vast majority of women in the world refuse to accept a guy who displays femininity, even while she takes all sorts of options in life that were previously 'male only' and demands to be able to be whatever she wants whenever she wants? But under no circumstances believes that a man should ever be able to do the same?

[Jazzy Jaz]

After following the friendly debate mostly between gendermutt and zooey, I find myself somewhat agreeing with some of what both of you say while also disagreeing with some of what both of you say. I dont think people who are just CDers originate from the same "place" as TS's. Those who identify as just CDers are generally cisgender (or on the cusp of cisgender while those who identify as TS are, well, TS (or on the cusp of TS). What they do have in common is that they both sit at one of the gender "poles", though where each group sits generally makes them opposites. The grey area inbetween IS the wall that separates the two. I dont believe that a JCDer can confuse themselves with being TS or that a TS can confuse themselves with being JCDer. One may lie to themselves or try to convince themselves that they are the other but this is likely being in denial and is very different from actually believing that you're JCDer when you're actually TS. Where confusion IS likely to occur is between JCDer and the grey area and between TS and the grey area. Someone who is JCDer may be unsure if they fall somewhat deeper into the TG spectrum but TS is still way at the deep end of the pool. Someone who is TS may wonder if they vary a bit or are mixed but very unlikely wonder if they are JCDer. Someone who is mixed may wonder/struggle with whether or not they are cisgender, JCDer, mixed, or TS depending on their gender variation etc (this is where it can get real confusing as you can feel/identify with both poles, yet feel so different).

I like using water temperature as a metaphor. What water has in common regardless of its temperature is that its wet, likewise what people have in common is that we generally have a gender, ( "a gender" including mixed gender variations). Hot and cold water are wet but they are very different (opposites). They generally aren't mistaken for each other like JCDers and TS generally won't mistake themselves for each other, not when they're being honest with themselves. Warm is mixed and depending on the variation, warm like a nice bath etc can be closer to hot and so on. Luke warm/cool is closer to being cold and you can have a 50/50 mix and every other mixed temperature imaginable. Where is the line between very very warm and hot (and viceversa), well thats where the confusion comes in but straight up hot and straight up cold are quite different. Genderfluid people fluctuate period. They're the only ones who can "temperarily" move from cisgender to TS and everything in between so to speak. They definately are not cisgender or TS though, they are genderfluid.

In regards to the superficial, it is important to note that there are many GGs who enjoy the superficial aspects of femininity including makeup/beauty/sexy fasion/ and even fetish. There are some GGs who choose to be porn stars because they like it. This doesn't mean that they are any less female or that they dont have any further depth to their character/female identity. Likewise, a male bodied mixed gender person can enjoy the superficial aspects of femininity while also containing a deeper female identity. In a forum like this it is easy to enjoy discussing these superficial aspects, especially when you've lived in a male body and not really gotten to discuss it before. My female identity resides in me regardless of which body I'm in, so it's natural for me to yearn for the superficial aspects such as feminine beauty etc which I dont really have and can't neccesarily ascertain physically. The other feminine aspects of me I DO have always and so I'm not yearning for it in the same way as the physical side. Also to note, a mtf mixed gender IS part male and so again being drawn to superficial aspects of femininity totally makes sense and doesn't discredit the female identity, it simply implies that the individual is not exclusively female (which is the point). A mixed gender person may harbour aspects that are generally related to one gender while also harbouring aspects that are generally related to the opposite gender and everything inbetween. I believe the grey/mixed area in all the varying degrees is the majority in the TG spectrum and that is why there's so much confusion.

[Jenniferathome]

Jasmine, you are writing from the cross dresser's perspective. I am shocked that anyone who is not TS can be debating what it means to be TS with people who have lived it and have actually transitioned (living full time as a woman). It's like me telling my wife what menstrual cramps feel like.

By the way, your statement about porn stars is patently wrong. Women in porn are there because they can't leave it. They are trapped. CNBC did a great segment on the business of sex where some of this was covered but PBS did a better one where they interviewed several former "actresses" and all stated they hated it, were on drugs, or were just running away from life. When they left that life for the real world, most found it difficult. Why do abused women stay with abusers? Because they are trapped! Make no mistake, porn is degrading to women, the actresses do not like it, it's fantasy for men.

[Zooey]

We're well past the point of diminishing returns here, but I'm sorry - you're still missing our point.


The starting point is femininity.

I understand what you're saying, but femininity (and especially superficial femininity) is not the starting point for womanhood. Being a woman is the starting point for womanhood, or at the very least, not being a man is sort of necessary. I agree that many/most of us express one or more forms of "femininity", but the underlying source (and in many ways, the nature) of that is fundamentally different. The "minefield" for TS people that you mention seeing here is their often-painful and tumultuous process of following their proverbial river back to its source. It was always different for them, even if took them a while to realize it.

I hate to play this card, but I'm honestly not terribly interested in or impressed by the views of a bunch of self-identified men on the nature of womanhood, our femininity, and why it's the same as what they feel, comes from the same place, or etc. No matter how much they may like dresses and makeup.

Look, at the end of the day, there's plenty for all of us to talk about. There's a fair amount of overlap in the "things we do". I'm happy to wax poetic about my favorite curling iron in the world if somebody here finds it helpful, but it's pretty much just going to be the top 10 ways that it helps me get out the door faster (and with my hands unburnt) on date nights and the occasional mornings that I don't just say "screw it" and grab a hair tie. I mean, c'mon... It's not even pink, although to be fair it is a rather delightful sunny shade of yellow.

So, let's stop talking about it all coming from the same place, or trying to identify some convenient common starting point. It might look similar sometimes, but it's just not the same. Let's just talk about the things we actually do have in common. Things like our love/hate relationship with bras, that one sweater that we have to keep at the office to balance out the temperature in that one conference room, the way that outlets in the bathroom are never quite where you want them, strategies for remaining pleasant when men try to explain femininity and womanhood to us...

Err, well... Maybe not some of those things, but you get what I'm saying. Anybody wanna talk about makeup brushes? Seriously... I'm a bit obsessed with good makeup brushes.

[BillieAnneJean]

I am assuming that the question of the original post also wants to know if we are not trans. I fall in to that category. I have no desire, impulse, longing to change genders. For me crossdressing is the best of both worlds. I consider myself lucky.

My admiration for those trans is well documented.

[Marcelle]

Hi Suzanne,

A bit late to the thread but since it is still active . . . well, I can't refuse a chance to write :).

It is funny because you and I both landed on this site at roughly the same time and both identified as CD. We travelled slightly different paths but both ended up on the TS forum at different times. For me when I first came here, I was confused, afraid, slightly embarrassed and emotionally distraught . . . I needed something to latch on to and I found it through the wonderful responses . . . I was a cross dresser . . . others were like me and I found kinship. However, as time moved forward something was wrong, the clothing meant nothing it was a means to an end, I found myself slipping downward to the dark again because the initial high was gone. I discussed this in length with my therapist and we continued to explore. I felt a drive/need to express who I was internally to the external world, I had to be seen for who I was . . . a woman. This led to a brief dalliance with identifying as gender fluid and presenting as a woman at work for a couple of days a week . . . this lasted about a month as I could feel her behind my eyes and when I was him, I missed her but when I was her . . . I never missed him. I remember that moment because I was alone in the study and my world came crashing down on me again much like it did when I first gravitated here . . . there was never a him only a her and that day I effectively killed him off. It was heart wrenching and satisfying all at the same time but I never looked back.

I can't say with any certainty that I always felt I was a girl/woman growing up. I do recall knowing I was not quite wired like the other boys growing up and over time it would come back to haunt me. But given my career choice and time frame, I suppressed/beat her down. It wasn't until I could admit that he never existed the he was always she that I could admit I was a woman. My transition is not the same as yours or others, I live full time as a woman but I will never seek HRT or surgery (my choice). It has nothing to do with being attached to be physically male it is just that my physiology does not define my gender only my sex (for me). So while I will always appear as a man in women's clothing, I know I am truly a woman and I suspect deep down I always knew.

Cheers

Marcelle

[becky77]

Gendermutt, Femininity is not a starting point. There are many TS that don't particularly wear feminine clothes or makeup.
If you are defining us all on a scale of femininity then you are way way off the mark.

It is all about identity.

Jennifer identifies as a man I identify as a woman that means we have absolutely nothing in common, at least not in regards to gender.
Unfortunately you are making the mistake that most seem to in making a comparison purely on the exterior, therefore totally invalidating my identity and those like Jennifer.

To say we are similar or starting from the same place is the same as saying you don't believe I am a woman and you also doubt Jennifer's masculinity. Why can't Jennifer be masculine yet enjoy embracing femininity too?

Also TS to us NOT an identity, being TS is the symptom of being female with a male body.
You could say it's the diagnosis of what's wrong.

The problem is you are so busy trying to find your own place in all this you don't realise how you dismiss others. I bet you don't think of me as a woman, just a Trans that's gone the full distance?
If you want to compare me to CDers then you haven't respected my identity.
I don't crossdress, neither does Zooey. To us they are not female clothes they are just our clothes.
You wouldn't tell a Cis woman that she is akin to a crossdresser but you would say it to me, think on what that means and how your thought process is.
You simply don't believe in us as women, you can't otherwise you would stop with this argument.

[mechamoose]

Ok, maybe not Gendermutt's 'femininity', but how about 'feeling feminine'?

I'm not TS, heck, if I was I would be a big red flag of 'something is wrong here'.

My posit is that 'feeling feminine' is the base level. Some of us have more of that, some of us enough to change our very being. Some of us don't.

We still 'feel feminine'. At best I'm still Danny Trejo in a frock. I'm still a girl, dammit. Don't you dare try and take that away.

I don't have a physical dysphoria.. maybe I'm lucky, maybe I am not. I still have *mental* dysphoria.

To me, THAT is the difference between TS and CD. It has nothing to do with right and proper, it has everything to do with intent and identity. Neither one is wrong or improper. They both need to be paid attention to. They both still count.

/swish

- MM

[becky77]

Feminine:

1.having qualities or an appearance traditionally associated with women, especially delicacy and prettiness.

If a woman isn't feminine is she still a woman?
A man can be feminine and yet still be a man, being feminine is a personality trait not an identity in itself.

[Megan G]

Becky beat me to it..

This has nothing to do with masculinity or feminity. It's all about identity, who you are as a person. If a woman is a "Tom boy" thru and thru and typically shows more masculinity than feminity is she still a woman? Of course she is....

[mechamoose]

Feminine:

1.having qualities or an appearance traditionally associated with women, especially delicacy and prettiness.

If a woman isn't feminine is she still a woman?
A man can be feminine and yet still be a man, being feminine is a personality trait not an identity in itself.

And my GG is a male, yet her identity is not an identity all to itself? Oh wait, yes it is. She is my girly bear, and is all that rough fur and prettiness all at once.

My wife wears gym shorts and 'wife beater' shirts at home. She is the 'pull my finger' parent.

Meanwhile I'm scooting about the house in a skirt and (literally) doing anything involving decorating. She doesn't even see that stuff.

She is still a GG, but that isn't how she would identify if all the 'rules' were suspended. She is a boy in a GG body.

Do *you* want to tell her that she doesn't fit? *I'm* not going to. It would leave scars.

Us XY folks don't have a monopoly on this, eh?

- MM

[ReineD]

The starting point is femininity.

I think this is where you might be stuck Gendermutt. Femininity is not the end goal for TSs (or GGs). A TS's end goal is to reflect who she feels she is internally. Or more accurately, this is her beginning goal since her end goal is to live the rest of her life as her authentic self. I'll give you a concrete example, it might be easier than describing it in general terms and I'll say the same thing in several ways in an attempt to find a way that you will understand:

A friend in my town is MtF transitioned. She is not feminine in the way that you might mean, she is female. Big difference. She wears overalls and work boots every day because she is a contractor. I can't even tell whether her work clothes were bought on the men's or women's side of the aisle, because to me all overalls and work boots look the same. Anyway, she's an excellent builder. She drives a truck because she is constantly hauling stuff. She works out to keep up her strength for the physical demands of her work and she does need to haul lumber, spend hours at a time plastering a ceiling, etc, and so her biceps are strong. She piles her hair on top of her head so it won't get in the way. She doesn't bother with makeup or jewelry because that gets in the way too. When she does go out and wears makeup, it is minimal. She has been on hormones for at least 10 years, she has had a BA although her goal was not and is not to show off her boobs since they are hidden behind her overalls most of the time and comfortable clothes the rest of the time. Her reason for surgeries was to conform her body to her identity, not because she got a kick out of imagining herself with boobs and a vagina or because she thought they would make her look more feminine. And when we look at her, there is no question that she is female. No one would ever mistake her as a male. She is an average woman's height, about 5'6. Her voice is ambiguous. It is much throatier than most other women's, but it is not characteristically a male voice either.

Femininity is what CDers aspire to. Some CDers aspire to go all out (feminine dresses, heels, hose, etc), while others want to experience just enough of a difference from standard male mode to make them "feel" more feminine (girl jeans, cute tops, girl shoes). But that's the difference. It is wanting to feel feminine for CDers vs. knowing that one is a woman for TSs. Any woman is by default "feminine" just by virtue of being female and it has nothing to do with wearing overalls or skirts, how long is the hair or how much makeup is worn. Does this make sense?

That said, there are of course transitioned women who go out dressed nicely and who wear gender-appropriate clothes for the office, and some who enjoy dressing with style, but the goal is the same as it is for GGs, which is to dress appropriately for the occasion. We can use the standard definition of "femininity" and say that an office skirt & top or an evening gown looks more "feminine" than overalls and workboots, but it is not the reason for wearing the fancier clothes. There is no kick to being all dressed up for TSs and GGs (although we can acknowledge that a sparkly dress is more feminine in style than overalls) nor is there a feeling that "this just feels right" because, well, we are always who we are which is women. The way we feel about ourselves does not change according to what clothes we wear. This is something that a lot of CDers do not understand ... how many CDers have asked GGs if they felt uplifted when they wore sexy or feminine clothes, or cute bras. The "feeling right" for transitioned TSs is not having to pretend to be male anymore. It is not specifically about looking "feminine" like it is with CDers. The "feeling right" for both TSs and GGs in terms of wearing clothes is wearing the styles that conform to their personal aesthetics, whether this is a pair of pants or a skirt and not because one thing makes them feel more feminine than the other. Transitioned TSs and GGs can feel feminine just wearing a pair of jeans because our bodies conform to who we are. We feel feminine naked.

<edit>
I was writing this response piece-meal while I was doing other stuff and had the editor opened for over an hour, and so I'm repeating some of the things posted in the last hour.

[Jazzy Jaz]

Jasmine, you are writing from the cross dresser's perspective. I am shocked that anyone who is not TS can be debating what it means to be TS with people who have lived it and have actually transitioned (living full time as a woman). It's like me telling my wife what menstrual cramps feel like.

By the way, your statement about porn stars is patently wrong. Women in porn are there because they can't leave it. They are trapped. CNBC did a great segment on the business of sex where some of this was covered but PBS did a better one where they interviewed several former "actresses" and all stated they hated it, were on drugs, or were just running away from life. When they left that life for the real world, most found it difficult. Why do abused women stay with abusers? Because they are trapped! Make no mistake, porn is degrading to women, the actresses do not like it, it's fantasy for men.

To be accurate Jennifer, YOU are writing as JCDer. I am NOT JCDer, I am bigender which internally is quite different. I am in no way disputing what TSs are saying about THEIR internal identities, in fact I very much support what they say. In line with one of the major points that becky, zooey, and marcelle make, TSs ARE completely women, and at some point they come to realize that there is no gender grey area for them and there truly never was. That is not only what makes them different from JCDers, but it is also what makes them different from me and other mixed folks. Nothing I've stated in regards to TSs comes from my experience, it is what I have read them say and I am simply supporting it. I can however discuss what differentiates them from me just as I can discuss what differentiates JCDers from me. You critisize me for discussing TS identity immediately after disregarding my gender identity and categorizing me as a CDer. You may be completely a man who enjoys CDing but I am not, I am part man but also have physical GD due to also being part woman. Therefore you could just as easily be critisized for describing me when my gender identity is much different from you. One of my main points was that while JCDers and TSs definately exist and deserve respect, mixed gender people should not be overlooked or disregarded. Just as it is frustrating for a TS to be categorized as a CDer, it can be annoying for a mixed gender person to be disregarded as JCDer also. I was only trying to acknowledge ALL of our existance in a description that reflects how "I" understand gender, there's nothing wrong with that. In your response about porn stars, notice that I very purposely said SOME. I dont dispute the experiences that the women in the segments you referenced spoke of, I am totally aware of the sexism, misogyny, exploitation, and objectification that many in these industries face. Anyone who remembers my comments in last years thread discussing prostitution and remembering that they're people will know my views in that regard. However, this doesn't mean that every single woman in porn hates it, there are SOME (not to be confused with all or even most) who simply enjoy sex and like getting paid to do what they enjoy. When describing the segments you said SEVERAL former actresses were interviewed, definately not ALL. I agree that porn is very much directed towards men and male enjoyment/fantasy, but also, most girlfriends that I've had have been very in to porn, more than me and enjoyed it when I was not around. I am not at all trying to state that these points are the mojority, what I am saying is that there are all different types of GGs with all different likes and tastes including the superficial aspects and this doesn't diminish their female identity, just as it wouldn't diminish a mtf TSs female identity, and it also doesn't diminish a mixed gender persons partial female identity. My points are rather quite simple.



I didnt see the latest posts as I was writing but I agree with ReineD, megan, and becky. The thing about being mixed gender is that you can have a "partial" female identity similiar to TSs, except mtf TSs have a complete female identity, but you can also aspire to "femininity" similiar to JCDer, except JCDer doesn't have an internal female identity. I feel like I'm in the middle being misunderstood by both!

[ReineD]

What's a JCDer?

[sometimes_miss]

Reine: I took it to mean 'Just' a CD'er.

Jasmine, you are writing from the cross dresser's perspective. I am shocked that anyone who is not TS can be debating what it means to be TS
And yet, these are discussion groups, where we debate all kinds of things. Considering that there have been numerous TS who regretted transitioning over the years, who are we to know whether the TS we're debating things with is one of those? We're all living with a situation which can be in flux. Or not. Or be stable for years, then something new comes up to enlighten us and bring about a whole new set of things to consider about ourselves (and others).
RE: Porn actresses. This from personal experience. Yes, they hate the job. So do a lot of us, hate our jobs. Are we 'trapped'? Well, not exactly, not in America, anyway. Most can walk out the door at any time. Minumum wage jobs as well as all sorts of OTHER undesirable jobs are out there. Ask a guy who works in a sewer if he loves his job. Sure, when they leave 'that life' for the rest of the world it will be difficult; leave any field for another and it will be difficult to adjust. That one, for women especially, because they tend to link sex with love more than men do. But trapped? Not so much. As one of those women told me, 'It's a job. You do it. You go home'. The implication I got from her was, yes, it was initially a desperation measure from being broke; she had options, but none of them good either, having been down those routes before (borrowing money from family, living with family that treated her like dirt, that sort of thing, living with the baby daddy, etc.). But like so many others who can't get their life together, she had a lot of problems with impulse control, and being short tempered as well. How much those were from living a life full of stress all the time, or even contributed to it, I'll never be sure. One thing I did learn real quick, was that she rapidly started taking advantage of our friendship by 'borrowing' money which of course never got paid back, even though she had enough money to spend on other stuff she wanted (typical girl 'hauls', new boots, new jacket, etc. when the 'old' stuff still looked like new), indulging in 'retail therapy'. So how trapped she was, and how much of it was her own doing, I don't know. BTW, this girl was a dancer; I met her in a gogo bar, she volunteered the information that she did movies too, perhaps as some sort of way to impress me? I had already told her that I wasn't interested in any type of sexual excitement, which she seemed to accept. I would not be surprised if she wound up having sex with the guys who ran the business, but women do that in other lines of work to get ahead, too. And they're not 'trapped' either. I'm not saying none are; but that's not the universal situation. And no, I fully understand the fallacy of the typical male viewpoint that these women love their jobs.

[Jazzy Jaz]

Yes, I meant JCDer as just a CDer as I saw someone else use it recently in the forum. I dont mean it in a condescending way, I am simply refering to those who identify completely as male while enjoying CDing.

Sometimes miss, when you talk about porn actresses you say they, these women, and speak of one whom you knew or conversed with, and then go on to dispute that theres a universal situation which contradicts your earlier generalizations. I have made it clear that I'm not describing the majority of those in these industries and I didn't even intend for this specific topic to be prevalent in this thread, but noone can say EVERY woman in these industries hates it because some women enjoy sex work, some enjoy fetish and bdsm and these women ARE out there period. Are they the majority, absolutely not, but then I never said they were.

[mechamoose]

Trying hard not to rage at being ignored...

I'm what, chopped liver? An inconvenience to be politefully ignored?

I don't need responses to feel validated. I just don't get the level of 'rainbow' responses this thread has gotten.

XX and XY people are different. We can have any level of disassociation with that genetic assignment, and we often do. We should not be sorry for it. That disassociation happens anyway, regardless of what we 'want'.

I have been living this cross-streamed existence for half my life. I think I may have a clue.

Are you REALLY looking for the difference between TS and CDs, or is it all just rainbow chaff?

(Not TRYING to be combative, but I'm now officially pissed off)

- MM

[ReineD]

MM, you and a few others here fall into a class all your own. :)

You aim to, or are resigned to, or are content with projecting a male image while wearing women's clothes. I admire you for honoring who you are, but I think this thread applies mostly to people who want to present as women, which I believe is the bulk of the members in this forum?

[JessiFoxx]

I've spent my whole adult life in denial about it, but the bottom line is, my blood pressure runs about 20 points higher when I spend a day in boy mode than when I am in girl mode. And I want so badly to transition. But my wife does not want me to be publicly out, and I love her and want to stay married. I keep hoping and praying society will change, and fighting for small victories, like recent trips out partially dressed. But yes, I know deep down that I am transgender/transsexual.

You have taken the works right of my mouth Carly! Couldn't have worded it better!

[mechamoose]

MM, you and a few others here fall into a class all your own. :)

You aim to, or are resigned to, or are content with projecting a male image while wearing women's clothes. I admire you for honoring who you are, but I think this thread applies mostly to people who want to present as women, which I believe is the bulk of the members in this forum?

Thread topic: Are there those here that are know inside they are really TS?

Isn't that a question worth answering? As much as I acknowledge that I'm an 'odd bird', 'presenting' as women doesn't even come close to addressing the CD/TS issue. Do you want to change your genetic self, or is your itch scratched by 'just' dressing?

Mine is. I dress in girly things because it feels right. I don't have gender dysphoria in the physical sense. Psychologically, I do. I do not to want to change or to even want to approach genetic reassignment.

I present a male image because I don't have much of a choice. I'm built like an eff'n truck. I still do my nails every week, have hair down to my shoulder-blades, and *love* skirts.

What am I?

- MM

[JessiFoxx]

LOL, but yes in short because a lot has been already been said here, YES I do believe I am TS/TG and will be seeking counselling on this to see for sure!

Wish me luck!

[Jazzy Jaz]

[QUOTE=mechamoose;3894736]Thread topic: Are there those here that are know inside they are really TS?

Isn't that a question worth answering? As much as I acknowledge that I'm an 'odd bird', 'presenting' as women doesn't even come close to addressing the CD/TS issue. Do you want to change your genetic self, or is your itch scratched by 'just' dressing?

The thing is, I can't answer those last two questions the way that TS/CD can. The first one I would say somewhat yet not neccesarily ish, the second I would say no but I'm sure it's likely scratched better than it is for a non transitioned TS? I don't spend everyday hating the fact that I'm in a male body, it's somewhat comfy. But I do spend alot of time resenting the fact that I don't get to be in a female body. I spend everyday being ok with being both male/female but hating being confined to the body of one.

[Zooey]

And my GG is a male, yet her identity is not an identity all to itself? Oh wait, yes it is. She is my girly bear, and is all that rough fur and prettiness all at once.

...

She is still a GG, but that isn't how she would identify if all the 'rules' were suspended. She is a boy in a GG body.

What "rules"? Societal rules have no bearing on one's actual self-identity, although they may affect how comfortable one is with expressing it.

Does your wife self-identify as a man, or are you projecting that on them because they're not conventionally feminine? That's a sincere question; it's not clear to me from your post.

As far as I'm concerned, if your wife self-identifies as a man, he's a man - not a woman. Good for him.
If they identify as a non-binary gender, they're whatever they say they are. Good for them.
If she identifies as a woman, then good for her and please stop this line of reasoning.

The same applies for your identity.

[sometimes_miss]

Thread topic: Are there those here that are know inside they are really TS?
To answer that we have to know what the question is. "those here that are know". I've never heard those words put in that order, in my life. I suppose the question was meant to mean, are there people who know that they are transsexual. Whether inside or outside is also vague, I've never heard of someone who is an outside transsexual. Or does that mean they feel they are of the opposite gender psychologically but do not feel the need to present as the physical sex they believe themselves to be mentally? Either way, there will be at least one. We're a very diverse group on this forum.


Do you want to change your genetic self, or is your itch scratched by 'just' dressing?
1. As far as I know, no one's yet been able to change themselves from XY to XX. So perhaps we'll suppose you mean sexual reassignment surgery?
2. 'just dressing', no. Of course, that also brings the question, what is 'just dressing'? I can wear a ladies undershirt and cotton granny panties, and women's sweats but no, that won't 'scratch my itch' because none of it feels or looks like stereotypical female attire. I need the reinforcement of visual and tactile feedback to 'scratch the itch' which will support the illusion to myself that I am female. Then the itch has been scratched.


Mine is. I dress in girly things because it feels right. I don't have gender dysphoria in the physical sense. Psychologically, I do.
That's what GID is; The feeling that your gender does not match the physical body/sex that you were declared to be when you were born, and treated as, when you were growing up. This was best exemplified by David Reimer, a male twin who was physically altered to be female when during circumcision they accidently burned off his penis. So, they convinced his parents to have him castrated, and then continued and had a rudimentary vulva created, had him declared female, and tried to raise him as a girl. But he inherently felt like he was a male.


I do not to want to change or to even want to approach genetic reassignment.
again we'll have to assume you mean sexual reassignment surgery.


I present a male image because I don't have much of a choice. I'm built like an eff'n truck.
There are some women who look very much like men (look at the bodybuilders magazines). Well, there were numerous East German female olympian athletic competitors who were built like trucks back in the 20th century, thanks to (most likely) male hormones being given to them.


I still do my nails every week, have hair down to my shoulder-blades, and *love* skirts. What am I?
The first question you need to address, is, how much do you really want to know? Suppose you find out that you ARE transsexual? Then what? Could you be content being a woman who's built like a truck? (because I face that potential problem as well). Would you feel the need to change your life? Or be ok just knowing that you're essentially a female, living out your life as a male?
Another question which may help is, are you trying to distance yourself from being male? Or trying to convince yourself, others, or both, that you are female?

There's a lot to go over before you can come to an final answer to your question "What am I?"

[PretzelGirl]

I am late to the party, so sorry for the drop in. One comment I want to make is that I see a lot of comments from people trying to define "a CD does this" and "a TS does that". A crossdresser or a transexual does exactly what they want to and it doesn't have to fit a mold or follow a rule/perception. Some of you missed how I figured myself out completely by trying to standardize our paths. Allow everyone to progress their own way and accept them. It really works!

[becky77]

What am I?

- MM

MM

I don't know, you are definitely conflicted though.
Have you looked into Gender therapy?

You maybe one of those floating in the grey area, that's a huge discussion for another thread I reckon.

You give off a mixed message making it hard to decipher what you mean. I also think you are confused with the difference between being feminine and being a woman.
You described your wife as a man, tell me is that because she talks and acts like a man and identifies as a man or is it purely how she looks and dresses? Do you call her a he?

From a TS point of view it's extremely insulting when you keep referring to your physicality as a reason not to transition. Because most TS have issues with male physical characteristics that they have had to transition despite of.
I have a lot of male body issues that I have to deal with. How do you think it feels for me when I'm at a wedding and I'm taller and broader than every other woman there and many men?
I stand out like a sore thumb in the group photo.

I have to cope the best way I can, I had to transition because I could no longer survive living the lie of being a man.

You mention how much you like wearing skirts, what does that have to do with being TS? Do you actually know what being TS means?

I'm not sure if you are having trouble expressing your meaning or if you just don't understand what we mean by identity?

Liking feminine clothing is a 'Preference' it's what you like it's not an indicator of your internal gender.

MM - Have a think on this.
If someone said you could have a female body (same size you are now but unmistakably female) and you would socialise and interact as a woman.
But there was never any feminine clothes everyone everywhere is androgynous.
Would you have the surgery to be female? Would you define yourself as a woman regardless if you had to wear trousers the rest of your life?

Some really interesting responses on here.

[ReineD]

Thread topic: Are there those here that are know inside they are really TS?

Isn't that a question worth answering?

Yes of course, but I was joining the conversation that was taking place in the 10 or so posts above mine. It is common in four page threads to have some tangential discussion to the OP. People were explaining the difference between CDers and TSs to Gendermutt, who suggested they both have the same source, femininity.

And no, you are not chopped liver. No one is disputing your GD. But, you are unlike most of the CDers and all of the TSs I know and so I really don't know where your place is when we talk about femininity as being the one thing that CDers and TSs have in common (according to Gendermutt). This is not a criticism of you, just respect for your description of yourself.

[Marcelle]

What am I?

Hi MM,

I don't think anyone was disrespecting you . . . just caught up in the multiple tangents this thread has taken. Who are you? (sorry, not a big fan of the term "what" applied to someone) Unfortunately only you can answer that. Look, I am quite new on this site and definitely very new to the TS side of the forum, but I can tell you that as much as I wanted someone (my therapist, my friends, my wife, people here) to tell me who I was . . . only I could discover that and define myself. I was a big "labels are for soup cans" proponent in my early days here and while I identify as TS it is for convenience of identification that I use the label now. However in the end I am a woman not trans, not TG, not MtF . . . just a woman. Okay, when people look at me they don't see it . . . "look a dude in a dress, a tranny, cross dresser or whatever :eek:" as there is no mistaking my male physiology. However, it doesn't bother me because I know who I am and I work within the confines of what genetics have dealt me and have grown to accept I will always look like a guy but that does not define my gender only my genetic sex. Will I ever be pretty, petite or the belle of the ball . . . heck no! I still have to shave as my great Northern European ancestral beard just won't let go, while my male physiology is small framed it still screams male when dressed. For example, when I go out for my morning run . . . women's running clothes, not shaved, no make-up, no forms, no tucking (too uncomfortable) and a hat to cover hair which is at an awkward growth stage. Anyone driving down the road would see a guy wearing women's running tights and top. All I see in the mirror before I leave for my run is a woman . . . no not a genetic woman with smooth skin, slender frame and curves in all the right places, but a woman nonetheless.


One comment I want to make is that I see a lot of comments from people trying to define "a CD does this" and "a TS does that". A crossdresser or a transexual does exactly what they want to and it doesn't have to fit a mold or follow a rule/perception.

This statement resonates . . . IMHO, there is not formula or checklist to discovery irrespective of if you are CD or TS (or points in between). There is only your path and when you finish your journey only you can define who you are and what the rest of the world thinks, believes, wishes or whatnot . . . matters not . . . you have have to be happy with who you are, and that is all that counts.

Cheers

Marcelle

[Jazzy Jaz]

Thanks Marcelle and Sue for the feedback as I'm sure I'm one of the ones worthy of it. While I still believe "in general" in the theories behind my metaphors, I do not feel that things are always absolutes and there is definately room for individuals to have experiences that don't quite fit in to the descriptions inwhich I applied. I agree that everyone has their own path and has their own understanding of their experiences and I completely respect that. I was mostly seeking to feel that respect as an inbetweener, I guess I wasn't initially in this thread, but at the moment I do. Zooey, I really like and appreciate the last paragraph in your last post as it offers that respect to all of us.

[becky77]

Jasmine I found your perspective interesting and in no way dismiss inbetweeners, I just think that's a topic in it's own right.

By inbetweener as I understand it you feel you sit in the middle somewhere? From that point of view I don't consider you a Crossdresser I think of you as Transgender.
I know Crossdresser is a broad term but the way I see it is it's (MtF) eg a man that dresses as the opposite sex? It's purely about the exterior look and clothes.

If that's the case then a TS isn't a Cder as they are dressing the same sex and in theory you could argue neither is an inbetweener as they are also following their identity which could go either way, however while an inbetweener lives in the closet presenting as a man to the world they are going to be perceived as a Crossdresser.

Two things I am confused about.
1) I think there are a lot of Male identified Crossdressers that consider themselves to have mixed internal gender, when infact they are confusing a need to dress like a woman or express femininity as an identity, it isn't. It's just a man that has a strong drive to express a feminine look.

2) I don't understand Gender fluid or inbetweener.
Marcelle was the first person to make me believe Gender fluid was possible and then she says actually she is TS. I honestly don't know if it's possible to be two different genders/personalities or if that person is just in denial or deluded? Bit like Bipolar? If that's the case then surely it's a pretty unpleasant way to live?

As for inbetweener how come all those claiming to be in the middle are not more Androgynous? Wouldn't androgynous be the true inbetweener?
If you are in the middle what do you want? To be treated as gender neutral or just to be able to dress girly when you like?

I only ask to learn more.

[Zooey]

Zooey, I really like and appreciate the last paragraph in your last post as it offers that respect to all of us.

You're welcome, and I was never trying to be dismissive of non-binary folks. I will readily admit that, like Becky, I don't really understand them a lot of the time. I also think a lot of CDs use that term (or gender fluid, etc) a bit inappropriately, to describe their perceived "completeness" of their adopted persona when "dressed". I've met a lot of people who will sometimes describe themselves that way, but are really just saying they reject traditional gender roles and activities, which is a very different thing. I have met a few people who genuinely strike me as something else though, and I have a good deal of respect for them (even though I have no idea what their internal monologue could possibly be like).

[JanePeterson]

So I'm very new to this debate, and feel like i may be jumping into shark infested waters here...

But i think focusing on the clothing aspect is important

If you could have a woman's body and be treated as a woman and be forced to wear male clothing,

OR

Wear women's clothing/present female and be accepted as a man with a male body...

In my short experience, if you say yes to option 1, then TS is probably closer to the answer

Another question... Is all this friction a result of trying to apply labels that don't really fit?

I'm not a scientist (but I did stay in a holiday inn express last night) - but when a model or equation produces a ton of outliers, then to me it says more about the limitations of the mode than the data- in this case, all the (insert preferred qualifier to CD thru TS) are a result of our classification being jacked up. As people were driven to categorize, but if the boxes are wrong then it's not going to work... Maybe the whole CD/TG/TS model is incomplete

[Teresa]

MM,
I'm inclined to agree with sometimes_miss.
As members of the forum we should be able to make sense of your CDing but it still comes over as confusing, when someone tries to find an explanation you throw a spanner in the works and deny that you fit into a suitable box. Yes we all need something to fit into for others to understand us, flying off the handle and saying you're officially ****** off doesn't help.

OK you're a big guy with a beard that loves being girly, you say you're OK with it and yet you give SAs a hard time because you confuse them .
I still feel you have issues you haven't come to terms with yet ! I still don't understand the description of your SO , your explanation is confusing.

Sorry MM it isn't a personal attack but every time you explode I become more confused by your comments !

[Jazzy Jaz]

Jasmine I found your perspective interesting and in no way dismiss inbetweeners, I just think that's a topic in it's own right.

By inbetweener as I understand it you feel you sit in the middle somewhere? From that point of view I don't consider you a Crossdresser I think of you as Transgender.
I know Crossdresser is a broad term but the way I see it is it's (MtF) eg a man that dresses as the opposite sex? It's purely about the exterior look and clothes.

If that's the case then a TS isn't a Cder as they are dressing the same sex and in theory you could argue neither is an inbetweener as they are also following their identity which could go either way, however while an inbetweener lives in the closet presenting as a man to the world they are going to be perceived as a Crossdresser.

Two things I am confused about.
1) I think there are a lot of Male identified Crossdressers that consider themselves to have mixed internal gender, when infact they are confusing a need to dress like a woman or express femininity as an identity, it isn't. It's just a man that has a strong drive to express a feminine look.

2) I don't understand Gender fluid or inbetweener.
Marcelle was the first person to make me believe Gender fluid was possible and then she says actually she is TS. I honestly don't know if it's possible to be two different genders/personalities or if that person is just in denial or deluded? Bit like Bipolar? If that's the case then surely it's a pretty unpleasant way to live?

As for inbetweener how come all those claiming to be in the middle are not more Androgynous? Wouldn't androgynous be the true inbetweener?
If you are in the middle what do you want? To be treated as gender neutral or just to be able to dress girly when you like?

I only ask to learn more.

Alrighty, lets see here. Hi Becky and others. I will do my best to answer your questions though everyone keep in mind that this is my understanding/perspective and I in no way intend to discredit or invalidate the perspectives of others.

1) I agree with you that there are many CDers who at some point confuse themselves with being mixed gender, and perhaps later come to realize that they are for the most part a male who CDes. I also believe that there are many TSs who at some point confuse themselves with being mixed gender, and perhaps later come to realize that they are completely the gender opposite of their sex. This would align with your description of Marcelle's experience. Both CDers and TSs can at times confuse their identity for being mixed gender, one of the obvious differences being that they're experiencing this from opposite ends of the spectrum. Now, on the flip side, there are also many mixed gender people who at some point may confuse themselves with being just a CDer and/or TS, and perhaps later come to realize that they are actually a mix of both male/female. To answer your question of whether it's possible to be mixed gender, my experiential answer is yes. It is just as possible as being the opposite gender of your birth sex. What makes mixed gender so confusing is that it borders (with slightly blurry lines) the edges of BOTH poles, and these individuals can't/don't identify with solely one gender (aside from genderfluid folks) and when people from either pole or mixed are confused about their identity it can create further confusion for those trying to understand. Also, what might help those who identify as one gender better understand mixed folks is that it's not as simple as that someones either 100% one gender, 100% the other gender, or a 50/50 mix of both. There are some male bodied (and viceversa) folks who are 20/80 or 30/70 etc of either male/female or female/male and so that will affect their internal identity and possibly how they come across to others. You can be mixed gender but have one of them more dominant than the other depending on your male/female gender balance. This is another reason (different from the confusion reason) why some who say they are mixed gender may come across as sounding more male as well as some sounding closer to TSs. Because of all this blurryness, it's sometimes hard to pin down who's mixed and who's not even for those who are mixed themselves. But there's a point that everyone has the potential to experience when you just know who you are.

Now when it comes to genderfluid, let me clarify, I'm definately not saying genderfluid people identify with solely one gender, definately not long term as in their whole lives anyways. I am not genderfluid and "my" understanding of genderfluid comes from reading the experiences of those folks here. To me, genderfluid reminds me of a wildcard or the queen in chess who can do all the different moves that the other unique/limited players can. A genderfluid person fluctuates and can be temporarily one gender, then temporarily the other gender, and can be temporarily any variation of mixed gender. This is a very special (though I imagine frustrating) ability, as these are the only people I know of who can actually glimpse what it's like to be male, female, and male/female in a single lifetime. One of the frustrating parts of this from what I've heard on this forum is that many of these individuals have no control over when or how often or how long these shifts in fluctuation occur. Honestly, with great respect I'm glad I don't have to go through that.

To clarify, although I'm mixed gender, I don't believe or feel that I have 2 personalities, identities, or spirits. My mixed gender is all blended into one self. I know there are some who do feel or describe themselves that way and I can only simply say thats not my experience.

There are many inbetweeners who dress androgynously and there are also many who don't. We are very diverse like everyone else, though I understand what you're asking. I am one who doesn't generally dress androgynous, though I have worn earings with my male clothes at home and thought "damn, that actually looks alright". For me, although I feel mixed while presenting either way, I simply enjoy dressing as one or the other. I don't really know how to explain this part but I guess it could be like putting on a bussiness suit and heading into the office and feeling ready for bussiness, then putting on shorts and being ready for the beach. Terrible example but so be it. I could wear suit pants and be shirtless in the office or wear a suit jacket and beach shorts at the beach but for me it just doesn't feel comfortable. This example doesn't do justice to those who do dress androgynously and for that I apologize. I guess it really comes down to the internal being more important than the external. Much like a GG or TS woman who is internally female but wears work boots and sweats etc and doesn't care much for makeup or "girly" things, it just is what it is plain and simple (minus the simple part lol).

Jane, to answer your questions about clothing, I understand what you're getting at but I personally don't see the clothing as a determining factor in regards to internal gender identity. If you posed the same scenario to a GG who happens to be totally "girly" and loves dressing feminine and told her that she could keep her female body but in turn had to give up her "girly/feminine" clothes and presentation, and was completely confined to flannel shirts and mens wrangler jeans I'm sure she would totally NOT be ok with that. This is because individuals have unique tastes in clothing regardless of their internal gender identity. There are also GGs who prefer to wear "masculine" clothing and would be equally upset if they were told that they could keep their female body but in turn had to give up their jeans/sweatshirts/workboots etc and HAD to wear dresses/makeup/girly shoes.

I hope these answers help those who had questions or those seeking more understanding of mixed gender and I appreciate the genuine interest and again these are just my perspectives and I'm sure others will add their own perspectives as they see fit.

Oh, to answer your last question Becky, if I was completely out (which I'm not) I would want to be accepted as a mixed person and be accepted/respected which ever way I choose to present.

[PaulaQ]

2) I don't understand Gender fluid or inbetweener.
Marcelle was the first person to make me believe Gender fluid was possible and then she says actually she is TS. I honestly don't know if it's possible to be two different genders/personalities or if that person is just in denial or deluded? Bit like Bipolar? If that's the case then surely it's a pretty unpleasant way to live?


In terms of my gender identity, I'm about as binary as they come, until I realized that I could, in some sense, relate to gender fluid people. I'm not gender fluid in any sense. But I am bisexual, and my sexual orientation IS fluid. There are periods of time when I am *really* into women. There are periods of time when I'm *really* into men. My attraction really does seem to fluctuate over time. It was incredibly confusing. And it was unpleasant, until I stopped fighting it. It also persisted over my whole life, so I never understood it. So I'd think it was probably a similar experience for gender fluid people. Sometimes they feel very feminine, other times very masculine. The gender binary itself may be nearly an alien concept to them, personally. I can tell you that I've struggled for a long time trying to understand how monosexual (interested in only one gender) / monogamous people feel. The stuff we're supposed to say about how we feel about relationships has never seemed natural or normal to me. Based on what I've heard other non-binary people say, I think that is a fair analogy - the most common thing I hear is "I don't understand gender - I'm just ME."

[Secret Drawer]

Thank you Jasminepp, I was starting to feel entirely marginalized by the dialog here, as if (we) who identify as inbetween, as in more to one gender than another within our minds don't count or are somehow fake or insincere... Hard enough to live as it is like this to be (accidentally I am sure) told that you can't somehow be real or are confused...

Androgynous is veering towards a lack of gender all together. I have explored those ideas very deeply, but they make as little sense as me trying to be cis-gendered. I do not know how to BE a cis-gendered woman (stands to reason) or a cis-gendered man (more confusing for people to understand, but not my problem!). So how am I supposed to just choose right now? It takes a couple years of presenting as a woman to get to the point of surgery in most cases, how is it that I am somehow confused or can't be somehow right about how I feel when a true cis-gendered woman, in the wrong body, still must go through this whole process to work it out? I have not had the opportunity to do this, and what does that mean for those that choose to not have surgery, but remain presenting as women?
I hate the marginalization I feel sometimes... It is not fair and this scale of superiority is extremely bothersome.
Paula Q, thank you for trying to relate it somehow, although I don't hedge between man/woman feelings, thus simply remain in a constant state of ... sameness... Could do without the constant anxiety though...

[mechamoose]

What "rules"? Societal rules have no bearing on one's actual self-identity, although they may affect how comfortable one is with expressing it.

Does your wife self-identify as a man, or are you projecting that on them because they're not conventionally feminine? That's a sincere question; it's not clear to me from your post.

As far as I'm concerned, if your wife self-identifies as a man, he's a man - not a woman. Good for him.
If they identify as a non-binary gender, they're whatever they say they are. Good for them.
If she identifies as a woman, then good for her and please stop this line of reasoning.

The same applies for your identity.

She *feels* like a man. No projections. She thinks like one and acts like one, as I do in the reverse.

Would she like to 'swap off'? Yes. Would she ever consider transitioning? No.

So the blanks are filled in, we do pretty much total 'role reversal' at home. She acts like the 'husband' as much as I act like the 'wife'.

- MM

[PaulaQ]

Mine is. I dress in girly things because it feels right. I don't have gender dysphoria in the physical sense. Psychologically, I do. I do not to want to change or to even want to approach genetic reassignment.

I present a male image because I don't have much of a choice. I'm built like an eff'n truck. I still do my nails every week, have hair down to my shoulder-blades, and *love* skirts.

What am I?


There are a lot of possibilities as to "what you are." Really, though, the only person who can answer that is you. I can throw out some terms and see if any of them resonate, but only you can define who you are:
- feminine man
- femme man
- gender queer
- transfeminine
- crossdresser
- bigender

I'm sure there are more. What gender do you feel like internally? Or does that question not even make sense to you? (That is a legitimate response, btw.) Those are key questions - is it your presention, your societal role, your core identity that doesn't match your sex assigned at birth?

Not having gender dysphoria of the sort that makes you need lots of medical care makes you a lucky person. In general, from what you describe, the dysphoria you suffer from seems quite mild. I hate to judge things like that - I'm not in your skin and haven't even met you in person. Maybe you are in constant torment. But you don't express that much if you are.

There are femme guys out there - one of the bi activists I'm acquainted with falls into that category. (It's not just for gay dudes!)

You are the one who picks what you wear though. What message about yourself are you trying to convey with what you wear? Try to ignore the self-deprecating "IcouldneverpassI'mtoobigandhairy" talk. How would you have the world see you and understand you if somehow you could control that?

[mechamoose]

I feel like a girl, dressed up in a (nice) man's body. I *like* what I have. I can move furniture, fix my car, remove spiders, choose nice curtains, cook an *awesome* meal, and SERIOUSLY rock a skirt.

I don't even slightly want to transition. Do I wish I was born into some tiny little 5'2" curvy thing? Yes... but that isn't what I was dealt. I'm (mostly) fine with that.

My personal label is 'gender-queer'. I walk both sides, and I'm not apologetic for it, in fact I'm sometimes quite militaristic over it.

You don't wan't to be the poor slob who shoots off his mouth at me or some brave sister. I *will* come after you. You won't do it twice.

I have done it before, I will do it again.

The message I am trying to convey with what I wear is ME. I don't have to, shouldn't have to, and WON'T feel bad for that.

For all my long floufy hair, painted nails, pretty rings and jewelry, 99% of the comments I get are positive ones.

I live in Massachusetts, though, and I know that makes a difference. Not all of us have that.

It *IS* possible, though.

- MM

[Tina_gm]

Hi again everyone. A lot has come through here since I last posted on this thread. Wish I hadn't been so busy at work lately and some other stuff, but a few things I would like to respond to.


Gendermutt, Femininity is not a starting point. There are many TS that don't particularly wear feminine clothes or makeup.
If you are defining us all on a scale of femininity then you are way way off the mark.
I am not in any way defining anyone on any scale, that is not what I am doing at all


To say we are similar or starting from the same place is the same as saying you don't believe I am a woman and you also doubt Jennifer's masculinity. Why can't Jennifer be masculine yet enjoy embracing femininity too?

I do not in any way doubt anyone's identity. I do not doubt yours, I do not doubt Jennifer's masculinity. Jennifer embracing femininity is part of what I am talking about. Jennifer has femininity to a degree that makes her desire to dress and appear as a woman, in public. I am taking nothing away from Jennifer in terms of masculinity, nor am I taking anything away from your identity as a woman.


Also TS to us NOT an identity, being TS is the symptom of being female with a male body.
You could say it's the diagnosis of what's wrong.
I agree with this, and I have never made any remark of being TS as an identity. It is merely a person who was born in a physical gender opposite their internal identity. When I use the term TS, I use it only to describe someone who falls under that condition, period.


The problem is you are so busy trying to find your own place in all this you don't realise how you dismiss others. I bet you don't think of me as a woman, just a Trans that's gone the full distance?
If you want to compare me to CDers then you haven't respected my identity.
I don't crossdress, neither does Zooey. To us they are not female clothes they are just our clothes.
You wouldn't tell a Cis woman that she is akin to a crossdresser but you would say it to me, think on what that means and how your thought process is.
You simply don't believe in us as women, you can't otherwise you would stop with this argument.
Because I may disagree with you, does not mean I am disrespecting you. Although in reality, I have little disagreement overall. Just a few points of observation that do differ from yours.
1st, I do plead guilty to trying to figure out where I fit in with all of this. That is quite common on this board, a whole lot of us are in the process of figuring out where we are and what our gender variance is and means. I believe very much that someone who is TS is in fact internally a woman At any point where I see something differently does not equal me viewing you or others as anything but what YOU are.

Where I see similarity simply is in the femininity. Femininity is IMO- NOT how a person dresses, presents, acts or has affinities and affections to. IMO- femininity is the reason that they do. It is the starting point, not the end goal as ReineD suggests I am stuck. The starting point simply being that an mtf tg, regardless of where they fall have femininity that a cisgender male does not. Not to the degree.

If the difference was so strongly contrasted as some suggest, then, why so much confusion? why does it take for many oftentimes years to figure out where they stand, both CDers and TS women alike.

Certainly there are CDers who under no circumstances every have any other gender identity than male. For many though, there is a vast grey area which they fall, and their gender identity is just not static. Because YOU do not understand how someone can be anything other than male or female does not mean it does not exist. Certainly, if people exist who are opposite their birth gender internally, and those who are aligned both internally and externally, there lies the ability for some to have internal components to their identity, to their soul that can be both male and female. It doesn't make them TS, and it doesn't TS anymore or any less than who they are. It is just that many, not ALL CDers fall into an area that is non binary, not a black and white contrast. It makes them something other than just male.

[Kimmiestarr85]

Passable CD looking for company kik me at kimmiestarr85 Phoenix az

[bimini1]

So, is there a difference between GG and TS? Or is it the same thing?

[ReineD]

Bimini, the only difference is chromosomes and the ability for biological functions associated with those chromosomes. GGs are XX, and MtF TSs are XY. The gender identity is the same if the TS identifies fully as a woman (I don't know if all MtF TSs identify fully as women).


Edit - There is one other difference - socialization, if the MtF TS was raised as a male and/or lived as a male a significant portion of the TS's life.

[flatlander_48]

2) I don't understand Gender fluid or inbetweener.
Marcelle was the first person to make me believe Gender fluid was possible and then she says actually she is TS. I honestly don't know if it's possible to be two different genders/personalities or if that person is just in denial or deluded? Bit like Bipolar? If that's the case then surely it's a pretty unpleasant way to live?

As for inbetweener how come all those claiming to be in the middle are not more Androgynous? Wouldn't androgynous be the true inbetweener?
If you are in the middle what do you want? To be treated as gender neutral or just to be able to dress girly when you like?

I only ask to learn more.

b7:

I identify as bisexual and transgender. Fortunately the degree of dysphoria that I have is not enough to warrant transitioning. As I said recently in another thread, I do not believe that I have a male and a female persona. Depending upon how I choose to present, some thoughts and characteristics may bubble to the surface and others recede a bit. I went through very little of the common shame and guilt that many others talk about. I've never purged or even thought about it. The first time I dressed I was somewhat nervous about being seen by someone I know, but once I got over that, I could see that I had tapped into something that seemed very comfortable and that there was no need to resist as it didn't feel like foreign territory.

Eventually what I realized is that this feminine part has always been with me. Now that I have claimed this missing part of my identify, it does seem to be stable. So, as far as I can tell, I don't anticipate any significant changes.

For me, androgyny doesn't have much meaning. It would only represent external trappings and doesn't connect with me on a personal basis. I don't identify as androgynous, so why should I dress in that mode? On the other hand, do wear pink and variations and I wear fleece socks, many of which are described as women's by color and pattern.

I do not identify as gender fluid. You mention bipolar, but I don't think that is a good analogy. Bipolar seems to suggest two specific conditions; either/or. Fluid suggests change, so that would indicate a number of possible variations and not just two. In other words, there's male and female and many points between the two.

DeeAnn

[Ressie]

There is one other difference - socialization, if the MtF TS was raised as a male and/or lived as a male a significant portion of the TS's life.

What I found odd is that I've met MtF transexuals that spoke and acted like they were still men. I guess living as a man for many decades (even if not identifying as one) becomes their personality? We are all unique and threads like this make it even more clear.

As for me, I have a great imagination. When I was a teen I had feelings that I wanted to be a female and even told my mom that I wished I was a girl. Sometimes I would ponder the idea of switching bodies with one of the girls at school (temporarily) and then having sex with my friends.

From the rare literature I found in the late '60s-early '70s, I concluded that I was a transvestite because female clothing was sexually arousing to me. "Trapped in the wrong body" doesn't describe the way I feel, but I've imagined having a women's body and I liked it a lot.

[sometimes_miss]

What I found odd is that I've met MtF transexuals that spoke and acted like they were still men. I guess living as a man for many decades (even if not identifying as one) becomes their personality?
^This was also my experience. When I went to some parties, when talking with the mtf TS's there, it was just like talking to any other guy. As I have been working in a profession where over 90% of the workers are women, it was easy to tell the difference. Other than trying to change their voice, the content and style of speaking was still distinctly male. Same with the behavior; although there appeared to be a conscious attempt to move as they believed females did (which is almost always decided by anatomy), the would 'slip' into male pattern body mechanics every so often, giving themselves away for who they were pre-op. Far too many had become caricatures of women, rather than finding the normal style they were trying to emulate.

My own conclusion is, while it may not 'be their personality', over a lifetime of training ourselves to 'fit in' to the male world, it DOES become second nature to behave that way; perhaps as almost an automatic defense to stave off anyone else's possibly seeing through the 'act' and finding out we are CD or TS. So even after transitioning, what we've forced ourselves to do for decades still lingers, no matter how much we wish it didn't. Kind of similar to, say, a baker coming home and smelling of fresh bread, even after he takes a shower. Some things just become ingrained into us (pun intended).

[flatlander_48]

What I found odd is that I've met MtF transexuals that spoke and acted like they were still men. I guess living as a man for many decades (even if not identifying as one) becomes their personality?

As it used to be said in the old westerns: "The old ways die hard.".

DeeAnn

[Rita Leigh]

Suzanne, congratulations on living a life most of us only dream of...becoming our dream. You are so blessed to have a life partner help you realize your potential. Life's fate has given you sweet lemonade and not just lemons! Enjoy what time you have left...finally as yourself.

[bimini1]

So, even though there is no difference between TS and GG other than chromosomes, plenty TS act like men? Which leads me into the whole influence of socialization. Not just from the cis world either. I often wonder how many would even ponder transition had the Internet not come along and we started to build these communities. I believe that has got to factor into how far you would be willing to go to be yourself. Or if because of the influence of the togetherness of a trans community, there is that influence on the development and growth of that female identity that is you.

Do you see what I'm getting at? If I was still walking around thinking gosh, I am the only one that has this issue, I might still be living out of a briefcase littered with a few feminine items as opposed to this whole wardrobe/other life. If there were just no social constrictions whatsoever now or when I was coming of age who would I really be?
You have to factor in the social piece.

[ReineD]

Do you see what I'm getting at? If I was still walking around thinking gosh, I am the only one that has this issue, I might still be living out of a briefcase littered with a few feminine items as opposed to this whole wardrobe/other life. If there were just no social constrictions whatsoever now or when I was coming of age who would I really be?
You have to factor in the social piece.

I should think a MtF TS is a woman whether she joins a support forum or not. Judging by the way that TSs describe things in the TS section, they simply are miserable being male. Period. Because they're not men. And they're willing to change all of this. In front of everyone full time. No matter the consequences. Even the potential to be read as birth-males after transition is not a deterrent, because living as a male is just too intolerable. This strength of conviction isn't something that is influenceable by an online forum. The discomfort over being male is there all the time, cd.com or no cd.com.

As to a world where there are no social constrictions for birth-males to dress as women, sorry but this will not happen. The laws are indeed changing (despite some setbacks in some states that no doubt will be reversed eventually) due to strong trans-advocacy groups and a growing social liberalism, but people in general will still react when it hits close to home even if strangers keep their opinions to themselves. There simply are not enough people who want to transition or crossdress in public to make this fully embraced in the main-stream.

But I can see where a crossdresser who is frustrated over not being able to dress might become more frustrated after joining here and reading a few people's success stories. The urge to dress is powerful indeed and if you combine that with an attitude touted by some people here that the urge to crossdress is nothing short of gender dysphoria, it can as you say give full rein to the pleasures of CDing and acquiring all the fun stuff and then reaching a sort of cognitive dissonance over wanting to dress in a society that does not embrace this, while still fundamentally being male or maybe gender-fluid.

So Bimini, the bottom line is that only you can determine who you are while hopefully being realistic about long-term scenarios as they might play out in your particular life.

[PaulaQ]

What I found odd is that I've met MtF transexuals that spoke and acted like they were still men. I guess living as a man for many decades (even if not identifying as one) becomes their personality?

A lot of us build up a mask or a shell to try to fit into a male role. It can be difficult to let go of this, because it feels protective. Unfortunately, while it might be protective, it strangles us , sometimes to death. In a lot of ways, this was just as painful for me towards the end as was my dysphoria about my body. The persona I created to hide my true self felt like it was dying, and in doing so, it threatened to take all of me with it. It was one of the most ghastly things I've ever experienced. My mind felt like it was dying.

It's possible to overcome this, although it involves quite a lot of work, very often. When I finally halted it, excising the parts that felt like dead tissue, some things in my former personality were just missing. (Fear is a good example of this. The lack of fear I experience will probably be the death of me. It's not the only thing missing, though.)

BTW, why wouldn't a trans woman, at least one who could tolerate it, continue to act as much like a man as she could muster? Femininity is largely valueless in our culture, and especially in our workplaces. Don't believe me? Try crying during a business meeting and then get back to me. It is also possible to be a very butch trans woman - there is nothing wrong with that.

Much what passes for defining what a man is, and what a woman is, is really just conforming to certain arbitrary standards - mostly the ones that match the values of the person who sits in judgement over whether or not a person is behaving in a masculine way or a feminine way. What do you mean when you say they "behaved like they were still men?"

In a lot of ways, this is a no win situation for us. If we are too feminine, we are often judged to be overcompensating. If we are too masculine, we are judged to be not even trying to be women. For me, the answers to who I was became clearer when I realized that most of the answers to questions about gender I've ever gotten from cisgender people have been completely nonsensical and contradictory. Cisgender people typically have an exceedingly superficial understanding of gender. They simply don't need to understand it because the world just works for them, at least as far as gender goes.


From the rare literature I found in the late '60s-early '70s, I concluded that I was a transvestite because female clothing was sexually arousing to me. "Trapped in the wrong body" doesn't describe the way I feel, but I've imagined having a women's body and I liked it a lot.

Finding clothing sexually arousing is irrelevant to whether or not you are, in fact a woman. It just isn't. Before the cis women chime in "oh oh oh - we aren't aroused by our clothing!!!!!" No, dears, you aren't. Lots of us aren't either. Some are, but at some point this passes.

Not all of us feel "trapped in the wrong body." I'm not even sure that applied to me. What I experienced was something altogether less pleasant.

[bimini1]

ReineD, Thanks for your insights on this post. Believe me, I am well aware the scenario I spoke about total social acceptance is not realistic. I was saying more of a "what if" angle.
Several years ago I had a cd friend. This was about 2003. We were both in about the same place, recently emerging and living in a kind of semi closet. Had been to a few events, support groups dressed etc. We were self identified CDers.
Fast forward today she is living 24/7, I say she because she is transitioned. She has kept private about GRS. I think socially more options were open to her. Now what I don't know is was she TS all along or did she go from CD to TS. Again, like you say only we can answer that. Maybe I should find her and ask her but she seems overtly sensitive about that now and seems to pull away from the whole trans world.
But my point is there were less constrictions on her than me. I often wonder if given her situation would I have done the same thing. Sometimes I wonder if I am TS, some signs seem to be present. But am so afraid of it because of the socialization piece telling me you are male for the past 50 years. The dysphoria is there and at times very strong but not to the point of saying to hell with my male life. Its akin to having a pet iguana, the animal will only grow as large as the enclosure you give it.

[PaulaQ]

Sometimes I wonder if I am TS, some signs seem to be present. But am so afraid of it because of the socialization piece telling me you are male for the past 50 years. The dysphoria is there and at times very strong but not to the point of saying to hell with my male life. Its akin to having a pet iguana, the animal will only grow as large as the enclosure you give it.

bimini1, I didn't start my transition until age 50. I would implore you in the sincerest way I can, to consider the following.

I felt exactly as you felt, trapped by the circumstances of my life. I knew that transition would end my marriage, and probably cost me everything that I'd worked for my entire life. That has proven to be the case, for the most part. No, I didn't transition because I thought it would be easy.

I did it because I had the horrible realization that my gender dysphoria had grown to a level that if I didn't do something about it, it was literally going to destroy me. In fact I waited too long - it was destroying me. I hit the wall "transition or die." And I waited so long that "or die" was the probable outcome.

Please don't wait this long, and for it to get that bad before dealing with your gender issues.

Waiting as long as I did is a way to become part of the 41% of us who attempt suicide. Some of us succeed. Please deal with this. Your death will be worse for everyone in your life than your transition - whatever "transition" means in your case.

Please understand that GD kills a LOT of us. It is beyond your control. And even if it never reaches that point, do you want to live in misery for however long you have left?

This isn't something you can control or manage. It just isn't. You need to understand who you are, and be true to that, basically regardless of the cost.

I wish it were otherwise, but it isn't.

[Tina_gm]

PaulaQ, what you did, what many TS women do, is wait until life is truly unbearable until transition. In a way, most who are TS even give the advice, don't transition unless you feel you have to. Then, once you do, you feel you wished you had done so long ago. Wasted many years of unhappiness, despair, torment. Some never transition or accept who they are, with sometimes fatal consequences.

So, to know you are truly ready to transition, (by most who are TS even) one must be at the darkest lowest point of their lives, and feel at this point, it isn't something I want to do, I have to do. It is a hard paradox. I wonder, as time passes.... many years, decades perhaps, and transgender becomes truly accepted more, will there be people who can do semi transitioning, living as women perhaps without having to go through the entire transition process. And be ok with it, as the general public will be ok with it. I think that someone who transitions early in life, the public will generally accept them now, but they do fully consider them women, and their bodies have been adjusted to be women physically. Having a V seems to mean so much to people to be considered women. But in the distant future, hopefully, more won't go through so much torment. Transition will hopefully be smoother, done earlier, and maybe it won't so often be an all or nothing sentiment. I know there are some who are at least for now holding off on a full physical transition, but all too often, until all steps are taken, most will never consider them women at all. Hopefully that will change in time.

- - - Updated - - -


So, even though there is no difference between TS and GG other than chromosomes, plenty TS act like men? Which leads me into the whole influence of socialization. Not just from the cis world either. I often wonder how many would even ponder transition had the Internet not come along and we started to build these communities. I believe that has got to factor into how far you would be willing to go to be yourself. Or if because of the influence of the togetherness of a trans community, there is that influence on the development and growth of that female identity that is you.

Acts like men- I get it that we who are different, genderwise, are brought into this world with expectations on us to "act like men" and we do. We even try to convince ourselves we are men. Try it hard enough for long enough, we can even believe it too. How many who are TS knew they were different but yet it wasn't an immediate oh I get it, I'm a woman. Socialization is a strong thing. Besides that, the genetics I think sometimes do play a big part. The torture that TS women often have, the intense dysphoria is from the body and brain in a huge disagreement about gender. The brain says woman, but the body says XY male.... Let's face it, the generic average male- close to 6ft tall, larger hands and feet, muscular development, is physically going to act more like a male than a female, at least in a lot of general appearance ways. They will walk more like a guy walks simply because of the physical XY genetics. Then add in the socialization aspects.

Think too, that there are things we do in general that we do not like about ourselves. I feel generally I am a positive minded person. BUT- my mother is by nature the poster child of the glass half empty. As much as I feel inside I am a positive minded person and strive to be, my upbringing and perhaps some genetics have caused me to look at negative aspects first. I hate that I do it, I hate when I realize it, or when it has been brought to my attention that I am looking and acting out negatively. I struggle internally trying to see the good first, which I truly wish to, yet my brain sometimes works in the opposite direction, because it was so programmed to do so from day one.

[ReineD]

Its akin to having a pet iguana, the animal will only grow as large as the enclosure you give it.

I know quite a few TSs too. None have told me they "became" women. They all feel they are women. Period.

And yes, transition is easier for some than others, as in how well accepted they are in their milieus. People who are respected in their jobs or are more affluent or have a good education and have the ability to advocate for themselves tend to do better than those who don't have those things. Transition is expensive. Certainly, married TSs who preserved their marriages seem to fare better than those who lost spouses and families. As to friends, they are replaceable. We've had several successful posts in the TS section lately and if you look back, you'll also see some very honest stories about things being difficult.

But if you post your concerns in the TS section they will tell you to not transition unless you absolutely have to. They will also tell you that being a woman post-transition just becomes ordinary. There are no special feelings associated with dressing up the way it might be for non-transitioners.

[Tina_gm]

ReineD, the euphoric or erotic sensation most CDers will talk about are because it is a special occasion to dress up, or go out dressed up. I sometimes think of it the same way as when I play golf for the 1st time of the year. Waited all winter, the weather is still crappy, my game is rusty, but it is such a great feeling to be out hitting it around. As the year goes on, I still look forward to playing, but the feeling isn't the same in August as it is in April.

Those who dress daily or at least very frequently who are not TS probably get a similar feeling about it just being natural, everyday part of life, I am thinking anyway.

[ReineD]

Gendermutt ... why are you bringing up euphoria and erotic feelings? This is not what I meant by "special feelings" if this is what you're thinking. I meant "improved mood" or the feeling that something is different, which ceases to exist after someone transitions because life as a woman just is all the time. It becomes ordinary.

[Tina_gm]

Oh ok. I was thinking the implication of special feelings meant something along those lines. I do understand that once someone is living life in a way their brain is aligned gender wise, in time, it just becomes normal.

[Megan G]

Yes, if you ask in the TS section most of us will answer with the transitional "don't transition unless you have to". There is a reason for it, it is unfreeking believably hard and you risk so much, Financial security, career,friends,family and anything else you can possibly think of. Some have had it easy but for many they have had it hard. We don't do it because of an increase or societal acceptance or because of communities that have been built online... We do it to save our lives like PaulaQ said. It's a last ditch effort to survive..


I meant "improved mood" or the feeling that something is different, which ceases to exist after someone transitions because life as a woman just is all the time. It becomes ordinary.

Yes, life does become ordinary after transition. But it's a great ordinary finally being who you have always truly been. The highlight for me when I was over at a friends place the other day looking at her new house. She said casually "in the 30 years we have known each other I have never seen you so happy, so content in life".

[flatlander_48]

What I found odd is that I've met MtF transexuals that spoke and acted like they were still men. I guess living as a man for many decades (even if not identifying as one) becomes their personality?

I think it goes beyond personality. For 30, 40, 50 years people have experienced the social setting that we know as Life from a male perspective. While they may not have been in agreement with it and/or had difficulty with it, it is the environment that one needs to navigate; it is the reference. Over time habits and defense mechanisms are developed in order to cope with the situation at hand. It's what our subconscious does in order to attempt to protect us and keep the stress levels down.

So, obviously transition is a major life experience. But the thing is, all of ones previous habits and defense mechanisms still exist. If all of these have been put in place and refined over 30, 40, 50 years, how easy would it be to undo? Even then, after these habits and defense mechanisms have been reduced to some manageable level (and however long that would take), they would need to be replaced by a different set of habits and defense mechanisms. That takes time also.

Anyway, the point is that I think it is much deeper than personality and perhaps relates more to what actually drives human behavior.


PaulaQ, what you did, what many TS women do, is wait until life is truly unbearable until transition. In a way, most who are TS even give the advice, don't transition unless you feel you have to. Then, once you do, you feel you wished you had done so long ago. Wasted many years of unhappiness, despair, torment. Some never transition or accept who they are, with sometimes fatal consequences.

Buried in there is the assumption that one had sufficient life experience, relative stability, etc. at an earlier age in order to be able to make transition work. That may or may not be the case. One may wish that they had done something sooner, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the outcome would be the same or better.

DeeAnn

[PaulaQ]

PaulaQ, what you did, what many TS women do, is wait until life is truly unbearable until transition. In a way, most who are TS even give the advice, don't transition unless you feel you have to. Then, once you do, you feel you wished you had done so long ago.

I don't quite view this the same way as everyone else does. I don't say "don't transition unless you have to." Rather, I would say be rigorously honest about who you are, and if that is sufficiently different from how the world views you, and how you live your life, then transition as soon as possible.

How hard it is doesn't really matter. How resource intensive it is doesn't matter. The cost to your present life doesn't matter.

I'm not saying pull the pin with no plan or preparation. I'm simply saying that if you need this, the other costs don't matter.


I think that someone who transitions early in life, the public will generally accept them now, but they do fully consider them women, and their bodies have been adjusted to be women physically. Having a V seems to mean so much to people to be considered women.

That all depends. You can find plenty of girls who transitioned young who'll tell you they have problems finding men who'll date them.

As for the vagina - not really. People say it does, but how does anyone but a doctor or sex partner even know what you have? Its just most cis people don't think about gender in terms of anything above their waist...

[Jennifer0874]

This thread has been very insightful. I'm 98% sure I'm TS, but something is holding me back from going all the way. Which doesn't make sense to me because I dress 24/7. So why don't I take the final steps? Maybe this means I am already TS. Do I need HRT to be TS or is the full time presentation enough?

Therapy is my friend.

[Tina_gm]

Paula, that was basically what I was getting at. Cisgender people mostly will only think of someone as a woman when they have the female parts. Most of us here know that gender is what is between the ears, not between the legs. My thought is that when a day comes that a majority of society begins to understand and accept this, many who wait until transition or die may not do so. Transition may begin happening sooner, perhaps in longer stages for some, and people will already be more apt to think of them as the gender they identify as, even though physically they are not how they identify as.

[grace7777]

This thread has been very insightful. I'm 98% sure I'm TS, but something is holding me back from going all the way. Which doesn't make sense to me because I dress 24/7. So why don't I take the final steps? Maybe this means I am already TS. Do I need HRT to be TS or is the full time presentation enough?

Therapy is my friend.

In my opinion being TS is who you are. Doing HRT or GRS does not make you TS. Now being TS often results in someone wanting to go ahead with HRT and GRS.

Someone can be TS and yet present as male 24/7, due to fearing what will happen if they come out publicly as TS.

[arbon]

Being a woman is who I am.

Increasingly I find myself rejecting the TS or transsexual labels. It was only a stage I needed to go through to get to where I am. I don't feel like I am really trans.

Often people state they are TS but not doing anything about it. I don't understand if that means they realize they are women but choose to live life as a man, or if they feel they are something other then man or woman.

[PaulaQ]

Being a woman is who I am. ... I don't feel like I am really trans.

I hear this a lot. I actually can relate to it. Now that my body and mind are congruent, I don't really feel very different from other people. I still list myself as a trans woman, and am out about it, because I know that my history, if nothing else, gives me a perspective on gender that very few people have. And while I may feel like everyone else, I know that in many ways, I'm not like everyone else.

I spent a lot of time, early on, lamenting the fact that I'd never be "normal." (Whatever that means.) Now? I'm very happy that I'm not. I look at the world around me, the world largely built by cisgender people in absolute disgust. No, the parts of me that feel "normal", "not trans", "just like everyone else", are the parts that make me ashamed when I see the cruelty and injustice of our society.

Not criticizing anyone for feeling "no longer trans." I really do understand the feeling, and it is pretty common.

[Secret Drawer]

This is a very interesting thread, although it is also frustrating in many ways. The hard thing about it is that some of us may be or probably are TS but because of buried senses of self, denial, and social pressure we soldier on. There is much to be considered in what PaulaQ says, although the "how?" is pretty strong for many...
One thing that cis-gendered GG's and GM's must consider is that even if some of us are TS we cannot "know" we are the opposite gender. I ask all cis-gendered this:

What does it feel like to be a man? A woman? Where are your reference points? We are born "into" a person, we cannot swap bodies or even minds to "know" how it feels to be something or someone else, or a different gender. Why is this "I feel like a man trapped in a womans body, or the converse;" even a thing? How is this possible?
Only a post op TS has that privilage! The thing Megan G said about feeling normal! Hello, thats the point! Some of us have been so not feeling normal for so long that it "feels normal" to be anxious and screwed up. It is a tough way to live and it is virtually impossible for a cis-gendered person to understand. Knowledge yes... Understanding, no.

[PaulaQ]

I ask all cis-gendered this:

What does it feel like to be a man? A woman?

I can tell you that this question is as useless as asking a fish "how's the water." They simply don't know - they are immersed in it. People who are trans, I believe, perceive gender in a way that is impossible for someone who's cisgender. We also spend way more time thinking about it.

Rather than ask "am I TS?" ask:
Ask yourself "How do I feel living my life now?"
Ask yourself "Do I feel connected to other people, or do I feel alienated? Do people of your gender make sense to you?"
Also, think about your face, your hair, your body, your genitals. Has anything about them bothered you over time?
How do you feel about the person who looks back at you in the mirror?
When you really think back on your childhood, anything gender related stand out?
Ask "Who am I?". The answer that you don't like is probably the correct one.

My answers, when I started:
"How do I feel living my life now?" - I felt miserable. I felt like a prisoner in solitary. Dressing was like a brief visit to the prison yard, alone, but feeling fresh air and daylight. I wanted to die.

"Do I feel connected to other people, or do I feel alienated? Do people of your gender make sense to you?" - I felt like I must've been from another planet. Women didn't react to me in ways that made sense. I had NO IDEA how to behave like the other guys. It felt like an act - it WAS an act. I tried to observe and behave as they did. It got easier, but it was always an act. I always had to watch what I did and said, and edit things before I said them, lest I say something that revealed too much. I would've been happy being a machine or a robot - anything to have no feelings.

"Also, think about your face, your hair, your body, your genitals. Has anything about them bothered you over time?" - I'm told I was not unattractive. I thought I was hideous. I hated my face, my hair, my body. Puberty was a nightmare, as I sprouted dense body hair and facial hair. My face changed. My voice dropped. I hated my voice - I felt like it was a giveaway. I worked to try to speak with as little inflection as I could. People liked my voice. I was always complemented on it. I could barely stand to hear it. I didn't enjoy having penetrative sex, but I did it for women I was with - they expected it.

"How do you feel about the person who looks back at you in the mirror?" - I hated him. I always hated him. There was a terrible, feeling, something enraged, within me, that wanted that guy to die. Preferably a horrible death. I felt worthless, I felt ugly, unlovable, alone, hated. Everything about him was wrong. Towards the end, when I looked in the mirror, death stared back at me.

"When you really think back on your childhood, anything gender related stand out?" - I was uncomfortable around groups of boys. I never felt I fit in. I spent time at a summer camp for boys, and in a boy's ward of a children's hospital. I was terrified. I was terrified to be in a locker room when I was in school. I had a lot more in common with my sister, and her friends, than with the boys my age. I always wanted to be a girl.

Lots more could be said by me about all this.

Ask "Who am I?". The answer that you don't like is probably the correct one. - I realized that I'm a woman. It was on a cold, dark march night, 3 years ago, that I came to realize this. It was not the answer I wanted. It took a lot to get to this point - I had tried all sorts of things to avoid this conclusion. In the end, I had no tricks left, other than suicide. I'd tried everything. It was bitter to realize that my life had been a lie, and that I'd really never been honest about anything about myself with anyone. No one knew me, really. I was 50 years old, and utterly alone.

As to whether or not you need to transition in some manner, only you can answer that. Sometimes the answers to the questions above make that more clear. However, that you ask the question at all speaks volumes. Cisgender people simply do not think about "should I be the opposite gender?"

[Georgette_USA]

I have found some of the perspectives presented here to be interesting.

I do not push or reject peoples ideas on transition, but do make them think of all the possible negatives.

As someone who transitioned somewhat early in life in my 20s, and fairly early in the whole timescale of what I call the dark ages. After transition and SRS at 26. My partner and I moved to suburbs and grew to be two older women. I never really thought of being Trans for 30 years. Now that I am back out to others, still don't feel Trans but do feel more empathetic to others. As an older woman I now have to decide how to tell doctors my background, in case it makes any difference to a diagnosis.

Did try the dating game early on. They never progressed very far as to telling my full background. As for having a vagina, it does come in handy for either male or female partners.

[ReineD]

One thing that cis-gendered GG's and GM's must consider is that even if some of us are TS we cannot "know" we are the opposite gender. I ask all cis-gendered this:

What does it feel like to be a man? A woman?

It means feeling comfortable in my body and everything that comes with it, everything that it can do (in a woman's case - menstrual cycles, birthing and lactation) and not do, for example I accept my upper body strength limitation compared to men. If I want to be stronger or have more endurance, I can always work out (even though I could never beat a man at arm-wrestling who also works out). If I were a guy, it would mean feeling comfortable with my strength and with society's lack of stringent demands on how I should look, which might enable me to get out the door with a minimum of effort should I so choose. lol.

It means feeling comfortable with my sexuality; by this I don't mean my sexual preference ... obviously we can be either opposite-sex or same-sex attracted. But I am comfortable with the way that I experience sexual pleasure. This goes for both men and women.

It means feeling comfortable with the gender that I am perceived as, by everyone even by the people I work with.

This is what it is not:

Things like gender roles no longer come into play because they are interchangeable now. Women and men can have the same jobs, be single parents, cook, do laundry, maintain the car, enjoy the same pastimes, even get through the Army Ranger course (http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/18/politics/women-graduate-army-ranger-course/).

Personality traits don't come into play either. Nowadays we have non-aggressive, nurturing men and competitive, aggressive women, with everything in between.

Last, it has nothing to do with the styles I might prefer adopting, whether they are non girly-girl (http://www.wikihow.com/Be-a-Non-Girly-Girl) or super girly-girl (http://robinelliottofchicago.com/wp-content/gallery/bat-alyce-paris/3579.jpg).

[Zooey]

One thing that cis-gendered GG's and GM's must consider is that even if some of us are TS we cannot "know" we are the opposite gender.

...snip...

What does it feel like to be a man? A woman? Where are your reference points? We are born "into" a person, we cannot swap bodies or even minds to "know" how it feels to be something or someone else, or a different gender. Why is this "I feel like a man trapped in a womans body, or the converse;" even a thing? How is this possible?
Only a post op TS has that privilage! The thing Megan G said about feeling normal! Hello, thats the point! Some of us have been so not feeling normal for so long that it "feels normal" to be anxious and screwed up. It is a tough way to live and it is virtually impossible for a cis-gendered person to understand. Knowledge yes... Understanding, no.

I'm not so sure I agree with some of this.

Having bottom surgery is, honestly, near the bottom of my priority list right now. Despite not having had "the surgery", my body is radically different from how it used to be. My equipment may be a little unconventional for a woman, but I can tell you that it sure as hell doesn't work like a man's at this point. I also feel far more normal now than I ever did before.

I actually think that cis people understand how post-transition trans folks feel fairly well, even if they don't realize it. For them, their identity more or less just makes sense to them. For me, it didn't. Now, it does. Most of the women in my life find that I make more sense to them now. Many old friends have, since coming out, told me I was "confusing" before, usually in mostly inarticulable ways.

So, no - cis people can't necessarily understand what it's like to be on the trans spectrum, but we share a lot of understanding beyond that. I know I'm a woman the same way they do - I just know, despite a rather significant birth defect. Jenny Boylan recently said, “My identity as a woman is much more important to me than my identity as a trans woman.” For me, that is 110% true. Transgender is one of many adjectives that could be applied to me - trans, overweight, cute, smart, annoying, funny, technical, obnoxious, etc. - but they're all just modifiers on woman.

[ReineD]

I actually think that cis people understand how post-transition trans folks feel fairly well, even if they don't realize it. For them, their identity more or less just makes sense to them. For me, it didn't. Now, it does.

I agree, this is what cis people and post-transitioners have in common: we all feel comfortable in our skins.

[karenpayneoregon]

Good to hear you have a supportive spouse that is wonderful. I’ve read about and seen documentaries where the spouse is accepted at first but things change as time passes. Also, congratulations on your upcoming surgeries. It will be nice to hear how you feel afterwards e.g. for me it was a relief days leading up to surgery but once being rolled into the OR I was calm, not excited. Jubilation kicked in weeks after surgery. My therapist indicated I would most likely be this way while others are ecstatic going in and afterwards calm followed by being overjoyed.

I always knew even before the term cross-dresser was learned that I was in the wrong body. Societal constraints and pressures that come with them held the true person inside until it was unbearable which lead to 14 months give or take a month to fully transitioning. I never doubted my true identity.

Validation came to me throughout the years but as mentioned societal constraints held me back. One week after surgery I had a visit from an owner of another cross-dresser/trans site for dinner. She told me her story and it was very similar to mine which gave me even more assurance of being on the right path.

For me having acquired an experienced therapist/PhD who has years of practice with both ends of the spectrum was yet another validation as she would tell me about clients who believed say they were cross dressers but really were trans at various levels and the opposite that they believed they needed to transition but were not candidates for surgeries or hormones.

[Secret Drawer]

I think the feeling comfortable with the various physical and social aspects of male/ femaleness is sensible, but as PaulaQ said, it is not helpful to a transgendered person, it is not even indicative of how the opposite gender feels. In other words, as a male I happen to have "upper body strength" that is actually pretty useful at times, but I don't know what it is like to have less. I do not know what it is like to be in a female body, thus my comment of "What are your reference points?" This is key.
When a person is confused as to their gender, there are no direct reference points to say "Oh, you are an X trapped in a Y body." It is not as simple as that. PaulaQ asks many questions that are more to the heart of the matter, and sites like this, as opposed to offering "Dutch courage" and confusing someone into a pink fog frenzy into transitioning, are a way to better understand the true nature that comes from within.
The lack of information over the years has caused more pain and suffering then an overload of information has caused false beliefs to cause pain and suffering.

[missmars]

For the longest time I had myself convinced I was "Just a crossdresser". But now I am 90% woman. I have no intention of surgeries until 2028.

[FrancescaDienes]

This is something I have been mulling over myself for a while. While I have some desire to be a woman and have considered beginning transitioning, it's not strong enough for me to be adversely affected by it mentally or to start the process of changing. I am relatively comfortable as a man and have what I consider to be enough male traits, mentally and emotionally, to be by and large content as I am. For the moment, I am happy to consider myself as having a little gender fluidity and to be a man with both masculine and feminine aspects and have begun to have less inhibitions with regards to expressing the latter.