Misgendered again!

[PretzelGirl]

Sometimes when I get misgendered or my dead name comes up I get educational and sometimes I admit I get snappy with the person. It depends on mood and frequency. I just had a couple of incidents and was glad I didn't get snappy. Sometimes it isn't really happening.

First, I was talking with a supervisor about some work that wasn't getting done. He was looking for an email while saying he didn't have the laptop he needed to load software. He finds the email and goes "Yes, Steve Robbins has it for two more days". I start to react, and then I realize that he referenced another Steve we work with using my old name. So I joked that he isn't likely to get it back since that guy no longer works with us. Obviously with my being in front of him, it put my old name in the forefront of his mind.

Then yesterday I made my regular trip through a Dunkin Donuts drive through on my way to the Pride Center. The employees that have been around a while know me well and the coffee I always get. I pull up and can tell it is Tim, the manager, taking my order. I start giving my order it anticipating him interrupting me and telling me to pull up. He doesn't interrupt and instead goes "That will be $2.58 Sir, please pull up". I get up there and go "Tim, why did you sir me?". He goes "The man in front of you didn't like being ma'amed either". Just a joke.....

Anyone else have strange occurrences?

[pamela7]

For as long as i can remember, tele-sales people mostly think I'm Mrs S when i answer, so my phone voice passes muster. The funny thing is that it never bothered me - if only i'd realised what that implied then.

I had another, different kind of strange occurrence last night worth reporting though. I was ready on-time to go out, and as usual my wife was pushing us late - i'd lost 25 of my 30 minutes travel contingency meaning a potential embarrassment of arriving at the event with everyone already seated. Normally this would have got me angry, but instead I was sad-upset, which she confirmed she felt also from me. I don't know if other transwomen experienced this shift in emotional reponse, so I'm curious.

[Marcelle]

Hi Sue,

I get misgendered the most on phone calls. While most will say my voice is passable in a husky Lauren Bacall kind of way, that is in person. The magic of phone and recording devices screams . . . dude! So when I take calls a work I get a lot "Sirs" but it really doesn't bother me as I get it and I would get exhausted trying to convince people otherwise. Now those who know about me will "Ma'am" me on the phone. In person people have made few slips with a "he" vice "she" but he name has remained the same "Marcelle vice Marcel" so I can't really say if I am being misgendered there. Where I get a lot of confusion from SAs when out doing my business is how to address me. I do not pass whatsoever (not in a million years and never will), so I think people are reticent to address me as Ma'am or Sir for fear of insulting me in either direction. So I get a lot of neutral addressing.

Cheers

Marcelle

[Jennifer-GWN]

Sue;

I'd say a victory in drive through would simply be them getting the order right... Hahah. The phone remains a bit of a challenge for me as well. I have noticed that my pitch actually lowers a bit for some reason as well when talking on the phone which doesn't help. I do keep the app pitchlab on my iPad and often let it run for the day when at my desk just to monitor. F2f pitch good ...put me on the phone I see a noticeable drop. This combined with the sound handling characteristics doesn't help. I do tend to start a conversation on the phone with establishing my name in hopes that it will establish a foundation from there it depends on how they interact with me wether to correct or not, get annoyed, or ignore.

Cheers... Jennifer

[PretzelGirl]

Jennifer, I think that might be from projection. I know I have always had an issue projecting my voice and holding pitch and it is just starting to get better. That is one of the contributors to drive through errors along with the wonderful microphone/speakers they buy.

[I Am Paula]

I get misgendered on the phone, although less these days. My pet peeve is people who ask for Paula. I say this is Paula. 'Really?'
NO! I'm lying butthead! 'Really' is not an appropriate response.
Rant over.
I've been getting about 50/50 at drive thru mics lately, and about 25/100 on the phone, so I 'really' can't complain.

[Lauri K]

Yes this happens all to often for me as well, gets frustrating......but I have come to just go along with it for the time being

The other day my wife and I were having a conversation with the SA at the cosmetics counter and lo and behold if my wife did not mis gender me during the discussion ( wife said to the SA, I have been using his product and I like them so I want to get my own) my wife did not mean it, but it slipped out of her mouth.

The rest of the time I blame my gravel voice and huge freaking Adam's apple that I want to get gone ASAP.

Hopefully I can report some progress on this in 2016.......but it does hurt my feelings to get Sir'ed I must say

[Suzanne F]

The phone is definitely my biggest hurdle. I am in sales and the phone is vital. I may take voice lessons to cut down on the misgendering. The worst in person example happened a month ago in a grocery store line. There were 3 cute fireman in front of me. An older male check out person looked at me and said," Sir there is no line in number 3." It cut through me like a knife. To make it worse he then said," oh, I mean mam." I just said thank you and moved to the other line but I was so embarrassed.
Suzanne

[I Am Paula]

Suzanne- That's harsh, specially with 3 cute firemen in line. They went from 'There's a cutie' to 'Buy the damn marshmallows and get out of here' :(

[Suzanne F]

Paula yes I was snapped out of thinking about the firemen. I was saying to myself, " How did I ever pull off being a male, they were so handsome and masculine." You know if didn't have a wig on I could see how someone could misgendering me in person. My real hair is growing out but is nowhere near ready. But with the wig I think it is obvious I am female. Anyway I know that it is part of the process.
Suzanne

[PretzelGirl]

That is a crusher Suzanne. I am sorry.... :sad:

[Lauri K]

You know I have been thinking long and hard about turning the tables on people who use the incorrect pronouns towards me on a regular basis.

If it is a telephone call or driveway speaker for order food, I get it that my voice is not that pretty and you get a "free pass".

But if I am in a dress, skirt, make up, jewelry, leg wear, purse you do not get a free pass to mis-gender me

So I thinking the next time for example a male waiter in the restaurant calls me Sir when I am clearly presenting as a female, I am going to look him straight in the eye and say thank you miss, or ma'am for taking my order, bringing my drink or whatever the case may be.

Or I have also considered politely correcting the person, and say to them something like, I know you are really busy and a lot on your mind, but you meant to call me ma'am correct.............otherwise tips are going down

But alternatively I get ma'am sometimes when I am not really expecting it

[PretzelGirl]

I have been pretty good about not being snappy. I did learn my lesson once and probably a good example of why patience can pay off. I left work and while driving, had an incoming call. I took it (bluetooth), and it went like this: "This is Sue" "How are you doing today Sir?" "<angry and loud> What do you mean sir? Do I sound like a sir? I just told you my name was Sue!" "I am sorry Ma'am. I am calling from the Utah Tax Commission and I need to ask you some questions about your business so I can determine if we are to apply these additional taxes against it".

I think I heard a mic drop over the speakers.

[Rianna Humble]

My voice isn't too brilliant, but a couple of times recently, I have been misgendered on the phone by people who should have known better.

On one occasion, I was talking to my doctor's surgery so they had my records on screen in front of them. After going off to check something, the person came back on the line and said "sorry to keep you waiting sir". I replied, fairly gently (for me) "I think I misheard you, I'm sure you said Ms Humble, rather than sir". I got a very sweet apology straight away.

[Bria]

My wife and I go into restaurants (I'm in drab) and almost every time the server will say, "What can I get for you guys?" Makes my wife somewhere between angry and livid, but seems to be the standard greeting in this part of the country when you aren't in an upscale restaurant. I guess the management either doesn't care or they think that is an acceptable greeting, go figure!!

If they can't figure out that my wife isn't a guy, how will they ever get the gender right just because your name is Sue.

I'm sorry that the general public is so dense because I know that your ego/confidence takes a hit when it happens.

Hugs, Bria

[I Am Paula]

That's why I love the gloriously gender free Y'all.

[PretzelGirl]

Bria, I find that "guys" is used generally in many places. That one would get my attention in the beginning as I was a little more sensitive, but I let it blow by now. If it is unacceptable to you, tell them. You just might hear it every now and then.

Paula, that is All Y'All in Texas. :D

[Leah Lynn]

Wait until you get clobbered with, "Dude, you need a haircut." That hurt!

Leah

[Bria]

My wife usually points out to the server that she is a girl and it just goes right over their head, are they all blond?

My wife was the one that told me I needed a haircut, see my avatar, that's the before picture.


We have come to a compromise, when she says to cut the hair, I do. Now I wear a wig. She didn't put the word dude in there, but I still wasn't a happy camper.

Hugs, Bria

[Leanne2]

I advise people that are not sure of someones gender to call them "Hon" which is short for Honey. It usually always works and normally doesn't offend anyone...............Leanne

[JohnH]

Personally it does not make any difference if someone sir's me or ma'ams me as long as I am not addressed as 'maggot'.

Johanna

[Angela Campbell]

The only time I ever get the sir thing is over the phone, but only if i get angry. I take the blame for that because I let it slip when I'm angry. Drive thru is no problem anymore. In person I haven't been misgendered in years. .....except for by my mother. She just can't seem to get the hang of it.

[PretzelGirl]

I guess it is appropriate to just reply to this thread.

For those who don't think good people can make mistakes. My wife has been picture perfect from long before transition. Tonight we are visiting our daughter and she referred to me as him when talking to her. It took 10 minutes to get her to stop crying. Anyone can slip if they have a memory in their head, remember that.

[pamela7]

it's not easy, i forget even with my own f2m son, because of the lifelong habituation. Be a little forgiving of folks; they are only human, after all.

[Eringirl]

My sister slips up every now and again, and she gets more upset about it than I do. One doesn't erase 55 years of habit in 1 year. It happens....as long as it is not intentional, I cut them some slack....

[Rachel292]

I should really apologise -
I answered the door to some guy in a suit this afternoon, handing out leaflets. I think he was selling home improvements.
I was dressed really casual and no make-up (= beard shadow) . I opened the door, "Yes" in a grumpy male voice. "Good afternoon sir" was the first thing he said. I replied " it's not Sir" and closed the door. He walked away totally bemused. looking back at my door with a puzzled face.
Sorry but I was not in the mood, for a meaningful , discussion as to me being a Woman / Trans.

[Lauri K]

It happens....as long as it is not intentional, I cut them some slack....

I am trying to do the same now too, my skin is growing thicker fast so if they get it wrong I try to go along and not get upset..............the first time

But on the other hand if I detect it is being done with malice / intentional discrimination then I am going to put on my Aries attitude and let them know they are using incorrect pronouns..........

[jentay1367]

Screw them. I am presenting as a Woman. You want something from me? Play the game. Be kind, be courteous...I will react in kind. No? Do not expect me to show you the same. I have the "badtranny attitude". We have to expect respect or we're never going to receive any. I've yet to venture out, but once I do, I will not suffer fools lightly. I will give as good as I get.

[Eryn]

Misgendering happens. It even happens to GGs. Even my good friends occasionally misgender me. I take this as a sign that they are now very comfortable with my real self and have let their guard down.

[crystalann]

I think most people just don't pay much attention, a few years ago I was in line at home depot and there was a very pretty lady standing in front of me, as her turn came up the lady at the cash register hello sir to her. The girl started to laugh the employee felt so bad and kept saying sorry, the girl said no big deal paid for her stuff and left. The employee started to tell me how bad she felt, saying how she looked at what the girl was buying and said she did not think a women would be buying the items she had, I think it was an 8 foot PVC 10" I guess that item screams male?

[PretzelGirl]

Jentay, one of the points of this thread was that sometimes there are some that really aren't misgendering and we are reading that out of it. If you "will not suffer fools lightly", you will be punishing yourself. If someone is being a deliberate jerk, it is one thing. But honest mistakes happen and if you lash out at everyone, you will find that there is no support and life becomes that much tougher. We have to take a deep breath sometimes.

[char GG]

My given name is a typical man's name. I have gotten mail all of my life calling me "Mr." so & so. Or when people meet me, they comment that they thought they were going to meet a man. Does it bother me - no! It's not a problem. I can't help what people think, say or write.

My suggestion is - don't give it a second thought. They have probably long forgotten their "mistake" long after you remember it.

[Eryn]

...she looked at what the girl was buying and said she did not think a women would be buying the items she had, I think it was an 8 foot PVC 10" I guess that item screams male?

Women very seldom buy or install sewer pipe. Somehow this blatant gender inequity has never been addressed by the feminist movement. :)

[ReineD]

Women very seldom buy or install sewer pipe. Somehow this blatant gender inequity has never been addressed by the feminist movement. :)

Few men buy sewer pipe too. My next door neighbor's pipe had a leak. You're correct, the wife did not fix it, but neither did the husband. The city took care of it with a backhoe. The backhoe operator was female. I have no idea who bought the pipe. So I guess the feminist movement didn't miss a thing. ;)

To Sue, I'm glad that you're taking it all in stride and you can tell the difference between purposeful misgendering and honest mistakes. This has much to say about your level of confidence. :)

[Megan G]

The backhoe operator was female. So I guess the feminist movement didn't miss a thing. ;)


Some of the best excavator operators I have seen were female. When I was in the oil sands in northern Alberta 4-5 years ago there were two women that could out dig any man in the camp. So yep the feminist movement had that under control.... ;)

[Eryn]

We had a drain pipe spring a leak inside a wall of our house, and the job did indeed fall by default to me. Not fun at all. In fact, a woman would have been better for the job simply because smaller people can get into the kitchen cabinets easier!

We also had an sewer collapse under our front yard that was well beyond my capabilities. We paid a lot of money to have it fixed professionally. None of the people who dug the trench (with shovels, not a backhoe) were female. That was the situation to which I was referring, albeit with tongue firmly in cheek. :)

[PretzelGirl]

To Sue, I'm glad that you're taking it all in stride and you can tell the difference between purposeful misgendering and honest mistakes. This has much to say about your level of confidence. :)

I believe that within our ability to control our emotions (it is tough when dysphoria or discrimination is high), we benefit by trying to work with people instead of just calling them out. If we just call them out, people will throw their hands up and walk away and then we lose another possible ally.

[ReineD]

We had a ...

I think that my SO and I are just a bit older than you and Mimi. You're correct, there are fewer females in our generation who take on repairs than men. In my mother's generation, almost no women did. But in my children's generation? Girls stay single a lot longer, they buy homes on their own now because they do have incomes (compared to women in the 50s) and they need to fix things. THIS generation benefits from all the changes brought about by the feminists. There's no way that my future daughter-in-law genders the household chores and repairs the way my mother did.

Back to older women, divorce rates have risen substantially in the last generation, resulting in reduced household incomes for all concerned. We do have to learn how to do all that stuff on our own, just like divorced men needed to learn how to cook. And some of us even learned to like it! I refinished our entire bathroom (plumbing, electrical, tiling, flooring, wall and ceiling repair, etc)! :)

Sorry Sue if this got a bit off track ... I agree with you. Most people are not aware they are being hurtful when they misgender and a spirit of generosity will get them on the right side far quicker than nastiness. Everyone deserves to be educated. But, if they persist in misgendering out of meanness after having been made aware, then they deserve to be spoken to sharply.

[Eryn]

You're right Reine, we are off the rails a bit! I do agree that a tolerant attitude toward misgendering is the best. Some people just need to get used to the situation. For the obnoxious ones, certainly speak sharply, but don't waste too much of your mental energy on them.

[Zooey]

I believe that within our ability to control our emotions (it is tough when dysphoria or discrimination is high), we benefit by trying to work with people instead of just calling them out. If we just call them out, people will throw their hands up and walk away and then we lose another possible ally.

I like the description of it as "working with people", rather than "being tolerant". There are "intentional misgenderings", and there are "honest mistakes", but there are also "routine, albeit honest, mistakes". You might get a casual poke from me for an occasional honest mistake, or if we're talking about something else important at the time I might not bring it up at all. There comes a point though when people aren't being conscious enough about it, and are repeatedly making mistakes. I do talk to people about that when I feel it's necessary. I try to be patient, but I do escalate the tone over time.

[Marcelle]

Screw them. I am presenting as a Woman. You want something from me? Play the game. Be kind, be courteous...I will react in kind. No? Do not expect me to show you the same. I have the "badtranny attitude". We have to expect respect or we're never going to receive any. I've yet to venture out, but once I do, I will not suffer fools lightly. I will give as good as I get.

Jentay,

I don't understand this position. Yes, if a person is being rude then I will ensure they don't make that mistake again and if they continue . . . I'll wash my hands of them and leave them in their own bitter existence. However people make mistakes and jumping down everyone's throat for honest mistakes well just saying . . . respect is a two-way street and it is earned, not taken.

As an example, I was briefing at a conference of colleagues last week and while many knew about my transition most have never met me in person. One colleague a good friend for many years was talking to me and he would use words like "bud" "dude" "he" "him" in conversation either talking to me or referring to me. I knew it was not out of spite or malice but that is the way he has known me for years. I cut him some slack but after a bit of time, approached him one on one and explained that "he" no longer exists but "she" is alive and kicking. He hoisted it aboard and made a few slips for the rest of the three day conference but by the end of the conference he was spot on.

Cheers

Marcelle

[Rogina B]

An HRO expansion in Jacksonville,Fl has been a "hot topic" in this past year. Lines have been drawn in the sand. The "religious opposition" went to the limits to squash any upgrade of the human rights protections. "Transgender people" are in their sights. So,many of our opposition do all they can in the way of misgendering deliberately as a dig. They feel good about doing so and corrections and apologies are not happening. They feel empowered by misgendering. I am sure it happens elsewhere that the haters are in power. Sad.

[Angela Campbell]

In this case it was intended and done out of disrespect. I would have immediately corrected her. If the attitude did not change a call to corporate would have been in the near future.

[jentay1367]

Jentay, one of the points of this thread was that sometimes there are some that really aren't misgendering and we are reading that out of it. If you "will not suffer fools lightly", you will be punishing yourself. If someone is being a deliberate jerk, it is one thing. But honest mistakes happen and if you lash out at everyone, you will find that there is no support and live becomes that much tougher. We have to take a deep breath sometimes.

Thanks Sue.....that's good advice. I shouldn't be so quick to be offended. I'm sure a more magnanimous attitude will serve me well in the long run. I spent my life socializing in a quick to be offended construct. Unlearning stuff is hard. On the other hand, I want to learn ...........and so I am. Thank you! Lisa