New member wanting advice on raising the subject with SO.

[Kelly Whelan]

Hi all. I'm sure it's one of the most commonly asked questions here and probably the most important. I joined the forum a month or so ago to find advice on this specific issue.

Here's my situation. I've included a few things that aren't directly connected or might seem irrelevant, but it may as well be said if it provides better context. But, sorry if it's too long for the internet. :)

- I'm 42.
- I'm married (no kids) and have been for ten years.
- I used to dress frequently when I was single in my mid 20s to early 30s.
- During my dressing days, I was never sexually active as my female self.
- My wife he has never had a problem with the fact that I was TVCD. Shortly after we met, I told her that this was something I used to do and saying that I would not go back to it felt true at the time. I really did decide to quit it all and I didn't have any withdrawal symptoms for the first 2 or 3 years afterwards.
- My wife has always been against me doing anything TVCD now. We have never talked about it fully, it just seems to get killed off with my own previous claims that it ended. "I thought you said you quit and wouldn't go back to it." etc. - Every couple of years I feel I want to go back to it. Despite how infrequently we talk about it, I think about it a lot and I have lived it out on virtual worlds like SecondLife. She's fine with me being on SecondLife as a woman. While better than nothing, it's just not the real thing.
- While she is attractive, she does not 'dress up' or wear make up more than once a year. (If that's relevant)
- She earns the money. She's a doctor whereas I'm an arts graduate who has never had a full time job in his life. When we first lived together, I moved to her non-english speaking Latin European home country so there was no pressure for me to get any kind of work. Now that we are back in my home country, there's the hope that I might find some sort of employment, but given the specific (small) town we're in, I'm not overly optimistic. While she's an experienced doctor, I'm effectively a 42 year old school leaver.
- As well as me asking her if I could do any of this, I would in effect be asking if I could spend her money on it too.
- While it has never been explicitly stated, I feel that the money situation in our relationship puts her at a huge advantage in matters that would normally require compromise from both sides. I doubt she would ever give me an 'all or nothing' ultimatum but if she did, I'd have very little choice but to accept it.
- We are still happily married. There's very little tension between us, apart from the times this comes up. We've never disagreed on anything significant in our lives: where to live, what to spend money on, etc.
- While we do feel very much in love, I feel somewhat domesticated and emasculated by the nature of our relationship. 'Kept man' as they say.
- Our sex life is pretty minimal. Apart from the occasional moments few months, we don't have sex anymore.
- Because we have recently moved to my home country (for the purposes of her career) the last thing she needs is anything that might upset her.
- My TVCD past was always down played whenever it came up. It gets passed off as a symptom of something else: boredom, depression, etc. "You're just bored." "You just don't do enough during the day." "You'll feel a lot better if ..." etc.
- I don't believe that my wife really knows enough about TVCD. A lot of people don't know much about it until they become directly involved with it. For all her intellectual curiosity, she has never wanted to learn about it. She can (and does) spend her nights after work on YouTube looking up anything from politics, philosophy, astronomy, or anything that grabs her interest that given week. When she wants to understand something, she reads a lot about it and becomes pretty fluent in that subject's concepts and terminology.
- While she is socially very liberal minded, her view is: anyone's husband but mine.
- Emotionally blackmailing her is beneath me. Apart from how I would feel doing it, she'd call me out on it straight away and become less likely to give up ground on this.

I have no idea what to do with this. I have three (not necessarily equally viable) options: 1) I go on as I have done and stifle all this to the cost of my own emotional well being because after all, I'm on a pretty good deal. 2) I try to discuss it more and seek some sort of compromise at the risk of giving her a headache she doesn't need in the short term and risk causing collateral damage in the long term, or 3) I do it behind her back, including the financing of it. I do the household spending, it would not be that difficult to skim cash off the side.

I wouldn't want her involved in my TVCD life. I'd prefer it if she had nothing to do with it beyond her consent to it.

Has anyone from any side of this equation experienced anything similar to this? Thoughts, advice and feedback would be appreciated.

Thanks.

[Nadine Spirit]

Can you clarify a bit for me? (I know you already included quite a bit of information!) Is this a fetish (sexual) thing for you?

[Sarah Louise]

Hi Kelly,

Welcome to the forum. You'll find lot's of help and advice here, but perhaps the best you'll receive is you need to weigh up what's right for you as you'll live with the consequences. Many on here, including me, have told their wives and it's led to acceptance on some level. However, there are also some who will tell you that it's changed the nature of their relationship for the worse. Of those who post on here - whose experience of coming out may or may not be typical of cross dressers - we don't know for sure - most fall into the former more positive category.

I only told my wife just over a week ago after a year and a half of debating whether to tell or not. Unlike you, my wife never knew I dressed when I was younger (before I met her). Maybe your problem is you've not made it clear that this is part of you, it's come back and it's something that isn't going to go away?

For what it's worth, the things that have worked for me in gaining some acceptance are being completely honest with my wife, answering all her questions, respecting her feelings, reassuring her that this isn't necessarily a bad thing (certainly, she can see how much happier, sensitive and attentive I am to her since coming out and how this makes me a better husband). I tell her I love her every day.

Our marriage is strong and we love each other very much. At the end of the day, I believe that these last two are the main reasons why things are working out ok.

Whatever you do - good luck!

Sarah

[MarciManseau]

I hope you read the sticky above, "Tips to an SO's acceptance". Lots of good advice there. Also it might help if you talked to a counselor about your dilemma before you confront your wife. If she's a medical professional, I'm sure she's dealt with gender issues in the past.

If I can help in any way, feel free to PM me.

[Marcelle]

Hi Kelly,

What you are talking about is the "big tell" or "big reveal" which, is a subject of much debate here. My take on this is you will know when and if you are ready to tell your SO. From what you have written though, you seem to have reached a point of no return when it comes to the desire to dress and as such appear (note I said appear) ready to tell. If you travel down that path then you must be prepared for one of two potential outcomes: (1) acceptance on some level in that your SO may embrace it wholly or you may enter a compromise where you dress but she doesn't want to see it, talk about . . . don't ask, don't tell (DADT); (2) the only other option is exit visas in that she wants nothing to do with it or you and she leaves.

As such this is a very personal decision and while we can provide advice be cautious of advice as it comes from a position of personal experience which may or may not be relevant to your situation. For example, I can tell you that when I told my wife she was accepting from the start and after a few years when I realized it was not just dressing but that I was a woman . . . she accepted and is still with me. However, for me to say my good fortune or the that of others here will be yours, would be reckless on my part. You know your wife the best and, only you can judge her reaction. I can infer from what you have written, she might suspect as you tend to bring it up now and then but I do not get the impression she is prepared to accept it sight unseen. However, she does seem intellectually curious and I suspect if you do decide to tell her, she might go into a quest for knowledge frenzy on the subject and then discuss with you. With regards to your posed options:

1. I go on as I have done and stifle all this to the cost of my own emotional well being because after all, I'm on a pretty good deal.

Well, if you can do so then it is a viable option but I get the impression from your post that the desire to dress is growing stronger. The one certainty I have noticed in life, is that bottling up any emotional strife will most likely lead to it bleeding out in the relationship in other emotional outlets . . . anger, resentment, depression, bitterness. If you cannot control the emotion and have to beat it down, it will still raise it's head and will most likely negatively affect your relationship in the long term.

2. I try to discuss it more and seek some sort of compromise at the risk of giving her a headache she doesn't need in the short term and risk causing collateral damage in the long term

If you do decide to tell, there are plenty of threads on this subject here. One of the members (Jenniferathome) has a link to a letter option or you could do a face to face. The key though IMHO is to know what you want to say before going in . . . just blurting it out without a plan or potential responses to questions she may have will go south quickly. Take some time, think about it, formulate a plan, practice and then go in best foot forward. The key is to go in eyes wide open . . . contrary to what some may say here, the big tell is not always followed by "Hugs, love you babe . . . let's get your girl on" it can be followed by heartache, anger, and potential loss of everything . . .that is the reality of it.

3. I do it behind her back, including the financing of it. I do the household spending, it would not be that difficult to skim cash off the side.

This is certainly an option and some here do that (perhaps not with the skimming of cash off the household budget). However, if you travel down this path you also have to accept that the potential of discovery is plausible and that can lead to whole host of other issues. There a few threads about stealth dressing (i.e., nobody knows) and ways to deal with it (e.g., hiding your stash, keeping secret). Some here will tell you this is the cowards way, lying and all that but then again they do not live your life nor have to suffer the consequences.

Look, I am not advocating "telling" or "not telling" and, I cannot provide you with the magic bullet answer because I am not you. The best I or anyone can provide is advice which is guided by our own experience and irrespective of the choice (tell / don't tell) for some it went well and for others . . . not so much. You have to decide what you can live with depending on the outcome. If you want unbiased/objective guidance my advice is to seek the help of a trained professional who deals with gender identity issues as she/he can help bring order to chaos and put you in a good mind set to make this very hard decision. Each of us hear have our own biases on the subject and will raise the banner to our side.

Cheers

Marcelle

[reb.femme]

...One of the members (Jenniferathome) has a link to a letter option or you could do a face to face. The key though IMHO is to know what you want to say before going in . . . just blurting it out without a plan or potential responses to questions she may have will go south quickly. Take some time, think about it, formulate a plan, practice and then go in best foot forward. The key is to go in eyes wide open . . . contrary to what some may say here, the big tell is not always followed by "Hugs, love you babe . . . let's get your girl on" it can be followed by heartache, anger, and potential loss of everything . . .that is the reality of it...Marcelle

I pretty much agree with Marcelle's take on this and cannot stress enough the logic of the above quote. I used Jennifer's letter as a template for my reveal. I practiced over and over in my head from that letter, what I wanted to say and how. It worked for me, but as Marcelle said, there is no magic bullet.

I will also echo the advice that only you know your situation and wife. Therefore, do not be persuaded, cajoled or otherwise bullied into revealing or not. Do what is right for you and you only. Here endeth the sermon.

Becky

[Sarah Louise]

I also used the 'Jenniferathome' template. A little bit bumpy at first, but so far seems to have worked for me.

[Katey888]

Welcome Kelly! :)

You'll get lots of advice from folk here who have told - some more successfully than others - and some who are in the process of 'bargaining' with their wives and SOs.. (Thinking about it - isn't bargaining one of those continual things in any relationship...? :thinking:) I'm a Secret Squirrel as far as my wife goes but I do get the occasional, glamorous excursion from the closet - just in a clandestine way - so I'm not going to go into the 'Tell-Don't Tell' debate as you can see where I am... :) (If you decide to stay secret, I'll be happy to share Spymaster-like stories with you.. ;))

One thing jumped out at me from your comprehensive (not too long!) context - this:

While we do feel very much in love, I feel somewhat domesticated and emasculated by the nature of our relationship. 'Kept man' as they say.
While there are other things in your list that obviously contribute to the overall scenario, I think this is a biggie and a tough one... :hugs: I can't imagine that this has suddenly become an issue, but has probably been building for years. I have a little experience in how this feels (different situation and I am a tad older than you :)) and while this may be in parallel with your CD desires, I'd go out on a limb to say that if you were to successfully address this one area, other aspects may become more apparent... F'rinstance - you get employed or start making money(somehow), you feel like you now have a more justifiably proportionate say in how that money is spent; you feel better about yourself in the 'male provider role'; you remove potential leverage from being able to validate your own feelings about CDing (whatever they may be - but it sounds like you express by femulation?) without the threat of sanction.

There's a lot of other stuff you've highlighted too - sex would be the next thing on my list (money and sex - same old, same old...:)) - but I'd be tempted to take the whole list to couples counselling if you haven't already.

Be happy to talk in more detail if you like being closeted.. ;)

Katey x

[Pat]

One thing that I see is that you've told her about your past and occasionally tried to bring this up before. It's a small step from there to "I've found myself thinking about it more and more and I think I should go see a counsellor" which a medical professional should be OK with. Seeing a counsellor gives you two immediate advantages; the insights from counseling and a perfect opportunity to discuss what's going on with you. "Did you know crossdressing is a life-long thing? The counsellor says...." So you have the topic out, you have a perfect reason to be discussing it and hopefully you have a better sense of what you're seeking in terms of a solution.

That said, everything can still go horribly wrong -- nobody here can guide you, we can only offer ideas and support (the support, at least, will be good.) Choose wisely.

[Teresa]

Kelly,
I can see your predicament , you are in a difficult situation , basically being a kept man isn't the ideal position to bargain from.
I'm a little concerned about your no sex comment, I can't help feeling that you need to get some professional help because it sounds like you're heading towards being a TS. Your relationship with your wife does also suggest that, being more of a companion, the fact that you can also go without dressing for lengthy periods is another indicator.

It's hard to ignore CDing but I think a good step would try and earn your own money, get a little bit of independence to give you some credibility. At the moment if your wife wants you out the door because your CDing you have nothing to live on.

[mykell]

One of the members (Jenniferathome) has a link to a letter option or you could do a face to face. The key though IMHO is to know what you want to say before going in . . . just blurting it out without a plan or potential responses to questions she may have will go south quickly. Take some time, think about it, formulate a plan, practice and then go in best foot forward. The key is to go in eyes wide open . . . contrary to what some may say here, the big tell is not always followed by "Hugs, love you babe . . . let's get your girl on" it can be followed by heartache, anger, and potential loss of everything . . .that is the reality of it.


hi Kelly,
this is a contentious topic that come up way too often, i used a method typified by jennifer, just to make it clear jenns wife already new jenn was a crossdresser, how long im not sure so the burden of the truth jenn revealed was somewhat diminished as her wife already knew the depth of the situation, mine did not go as well, others have been better, others have been worse....and having a copy of what you want to say as backup in the case you flub your words it will be available for her to read, but do not just hand it to her beforehand, saying it from your heart will have more value, and if yours goes like mine their was some quite nights for a few weeks and for the initial response i offered a DADT scenario and it was accepted, bit over two years now and we talk and im now attending and even have started a support group...

if you do chose plan #3 one thing i do advocate is to explain what it means to you and address the typical concerns and fears you had for not being as forthright with your desire to CD in the form of a letter or video so if your fate leaves a tad earlier then expected or the unexpected discovery of your paraphernalia it will be there to explain most of the initial questions she will surely have......faithfulness, transition, sexuality, ect.

welcome to the group and best of luck with wherever your journey takes you....


marcell explains wisely and eloquently most concerns....

[TrishaTX]

My personal opinion is to start seeing a therapist that specializes in gender therapy and work towards a plan. If you can involve a marriage therapist as well (could be the same person) they have very good ways to start this process. I dove in full steam and it actually retarded our growth, I should have had a better plan. Today, we both see a therapist9same) who has gender therapy as well as relationship therapy in her background, this has improved our relationship significantly. It takes time, love and commitment to keep your relationship going regardless of bumps in the road like these. Read the posts in here, there are many ladies that know way more than me...the above is what I have learned so far...

[Sometimes Steffi]

I'm an engineer, so I think about it as a risk analysis. The risk analysis goes like this.

If I tell her, will it b good or bad, how bad will it be, and how likely.

From what you have written, it's not likely to be good, but a little bad, somewhat bad, or really bad.

A little bad might be that she's OK if you CD, as long as she doesn't see it and it doesn't cost too much, and you get to do a little CDing with her knowledge, but not approval.

Somewhat bad may be that she gets really upset, and tells you she' prefer that you wouldn't CD. You either agree to give up CDing, or do it in secret.

Really bad may be that you have a big argument about it, and she tells you if she finds out that you're CDing, expect to get divorce.

But, you have to make up the narratives and decide how likely they are, and what the consequences would be.

Honestly, I think that you're at a big disadvantage here, because as you admit yourself, you're a "kept man". Just saying.

Worst case, she throws you out without any money. How likely is that? Only you can guess. But the consequence is pretty severe. Is a 5% likelihood of that happening too risky for you?

[Kelly Whelan]

Thank you for all the replies so far. A lot of sense being made here.

Reading the feedback, I'm hearing what I'm more or less thinking too. Stifling my urges to CD will only make me unhappy and cause a lot of unspoken tension in our relationship, while going stealth will feel like a hollow victory and possibly create similar tension. I'm just not a good liar. I hate how it feels and I place a high value on acceptance. While both options might appear to be the paths of least resistance, they aren't the right paths to take I feel.

The conclusion is for dialogue on the matter. Rather than blurt it out in the heat of the moment, it's clear that I need to approach things tactfully and strategically. I'll chat with my mother and a few friends about it just to relieve a lot of the anxiety.


Can you clarify a bit for me? (I know you already included quite a bit of information!) Is this a fetish (sexual) thing for you?
No it's not. I never sexualised it when I was active. Despite the ample opportunities there were for me to takes things sexual. I met up with mostly married CDs or those who were proudly off the market. It was all about being as convincing as I could. The less I was aware of my own body, the better.