What is it to feel and identify as transgender... Is it a happy middle ground...?

[Katey888]

REPLIES ONLY FROM THOSE THAT IDENTIFY COMFORTABLY WITH TRANSGENDER PLEASE :)

To complement the current thread "Are there those here that are know inside they are really TS?" and inspired by Becky77...

So we’ve recently had a thread on ‘just’ CDing, we have one running currently on knowing that one is “really TS” and in that thread Becky raised a couple of questions that said a lot to me about something that I’ve realised for some time but thought perhaps it was worth discussing using Becky’s questions as a framework and to try to keep this just for those folk that are in accord with the generally accepted definition of transgender – and yes, I know we use it as an umbrella term, but I’d just like to see replies from those that are happy with this description of themselves – to recap:

Transgender: Adjective to describe a diverse group of individuals who cross or transcend culturally defined categories of gender. The gender identity of transgender people differs to varying degrees from the sex they were assigned at birth.

Becky’s questions/points that caught my attention:


Two things I am confused about.
1) I think there are a lot of Male identified Crossdressers that consider themselves to have mixed internal gender, when in fact they are confusing a need to dress like a woman or express femininity as an identity, it isn't. It's just a man that has a strong drive to express a feminine look.
2) I don't understand Gender fluid or inbetweener.
Marcelle was the first person to make me believe Gender fluid was possible and then she says actually she is TS. I honestly don't know if it's possible to be two different genders/personalities or if that person is just in denial or deluded? Bit like Bipolar? If that's the case then surely it's a pretty unpleasant way to live?


For me, the first point fits me best, so let me try to expand on what this means for me and why I am happy to be considered transgender and why this is part of me and my identity that cannot be corralled into exclusively male or female.

Yes, I am predominantly male identified. I don’t know that I consider myself to have a 'mixed' internal gender but perhaps it must be to some degree... However you describe it there is clearly a strong need (not just desire) to express myself in a visually feminine way. This isn’t to attract men (not gay or bi) but at the same time I wouldn’t want to be seen as unattractive – but then who would..? Over decades I have endeavoured to have ‘fun’ with this (something of a euphemism for past sexual self-gratification but not in recent years ;)) whether dressing alone or finally going out in public – but I don’t dress for fun: finding a way to have fun (socially) is a way of somehow just making this inexplicable need more palatable. I don’t feel like a man “that has a strong drive to express a feminine look” when I am transformed – it is more than that. I do feel that the transformation – visually representational as it is – acts as a conduit for something that is a part of my identity that does not predominate, but is strong enough that it has to find an outlet. Dressing isn’t just about the clothes as it seems to be for many - it's a means to an end – the clothes are just part of the overall image that lets me yell at the world “I may be a male underneath this, but look how much more is enabled when I can express myself physically to the world in this other aspect of me…” and for me that is accentuated by mannerisms, posture, movement… and the feeling of being able to comfortably express all of that, in an image that I know most of vanilla society will see as feminine, if not female, is what curiously gives me comfort and satisfaction - I think that's why we have the need to express it in public to find affirmation and validate our expression – it’s a release perhaps similar to an artist completing a painting or a composer a piece of music. The painting is more than just paint on canvas – it’s both representational and expressive of how the artist sees the world and their interaction with it and it portrays a message of their feeling and their perspective that others can see and experience… and probably sometimes includes their identity.

So it’s so much more than just portraying a ‘look’ – and it also has it’s unpleasant side in knowing that you can never be satisfied with the one-way ‘switch’ from one to the other (as with TS) and being locked in one mode – it’s a life that’s full of the conflict of being comfortable (generally) in one, but knowing that the other aspect must find a release every so often, to feel complete fulfilment. I can totally understand why TS-folk and singularly male-identified CDers would not understand this and the strength of the need that drives us to be secretive because of our fear of discovery and misunderstanding, or take risks to find a way to express this aspect of us – it’s really not a simple thing and in some ways more difficult to come to terms with when ones gender expression needs to flip-flop or oscillates in-between with a mixture of modes.

So – can other happily identifying TG folk give me their perspectives too…? I'm sure we'll have someone able to fill in for the GQ/GF/in-between folk...? :D

(And please, please don’t chip in with – “I’m not TG but…” :facepalm: - if you don’t feel it, you’ve probably already stated that clearly in alternate threads... Thanks... :))

And if you read to the end... :clap:

Katey x

[mykell]

WOW, thats a mouthful katey, may have to hit the tequila earlier,

so ive been in a funk with this lately and have been rather sarcastic, (More so than usual) and also had a failed denial thread also....some posts about going on here that made me falter or question my goals and accomplishments...

as i travel this road i read and learn and benefit from the perspectives of talking here and in a support group where i get a better understanding while looking in the eye of folks struggling with everyday situations, the pain, the triumphs, the heartbreak, the sadness in the eyes and the smiles on the lips, older younger, friend, family, and the support that is shared at all levels and stops on the journeys we embark.

for me it is not that i feel one is different from the other, i am always 'Me' but i have more fun as one than the other, the same concerns, do i look OK, but i fuss more with the female presentation to get it right and of coarse it takes more preparation to hide the male tells, so its easier to be my male side, but i always yearn to be my female self also, no switch so to say.....its just matters what life activities are needed to be accomplished....

its easier to go to work male but their are days i wish i could go as a female, but it is just to much trouble and consequences if done, going to a store not as much, shopping male or female if it has to be done it gets done.....comfortable more now than in my younger years. driving not an issue at all, attending support with peers was the easiest thing i have done....but when i do it it is not a different part or person it is just me,

before i got here i would say i was just a crossdresser, but since ive been here i learned that it is so much more, its a community that you sit down with and share lots of common feeling and thoughts, victories and failures, co-operation and combativeness....but at the core we truly are not what folks in the wild consider conforming to theyre minds eye of what our gender is supposed to be.....so im transgender and its not a gang its a club.....

[Ceera]

Well, I think I qualify as 'happily transgender'. The term 'gender fluid' also fits me pretty well. I flip back and forth at will.

I certainly don't identify as 'a man who wants to just look female'. When I want to be Ceera, I become, in as much as is possible without surgical alteration, a female version of myself, with a rather different personality than my male side.

I also don't identify as 'a woman trapped in a male body', with a need to transition fully and get surgeries to make my body as female as my mind is. I don't dislike my male parts. I just don't think they fully express who and what I am.

I was born and raised as a male, and for most of my life, despite inclinations to the contrary, I tried to adhere to the expected gender binary male role. I denied and repressed my female aspect, and 'played it straight'. I knew I was bisexual, but suppressed it. Father was homophobic and never could have accepted me being anything but straight. But I knew I has most of the same feelings in looking at some males that females had. I just didn't dare act on them.

Over the years, I realized there were a lot of other 'female things' that I enjoyed far more than a male is supposed to in our society. Women's clothes, makeup, jewelry, shoes... all those tangible things appealed to me. But it went further than that. I found I could roleplay a female character so convincingly that others, who interacted with me on-line for years, were solidly convinced I was a real girl. But it wasn't just me enjoying the clothes and accessories. Behaviors, attitudes and priorities shifted accordingly. It also didn't matter if the character I was portraying was straight, lesbian or a hermaphrodite (both gender's 'functional bits' in one body). My mind can shift and adapt freely between the gender roles.

Honestly, if I could have one wish regarding myself, it would be to have the ability to do a true shapeshift, at will and as often as I want, between the forms of a genetic girl and my male self, with everything properly scaled and proportioned and functional for the change. Then my body would match what my mind feels like.

As a woman, I'm much taller and more broad shouldered than most genetic girls. Yet I still manage to believably present as female, to the extent that GG's that I am chatting with seem oblivious that I am not also a GG by birth and by what's in my panties.

For the last couple of years I've allowed my female side free reign. When I want to go out as a girl, I transform myself and do it. And it feels good. It feels right.

In some regards, it's as if there were two mindsets within me - one male, and the other, female. It's hard to explain, but it's very real for me. And it makes me happy.

[Tracii G]

Happily in the middle somewhere.
I don't stress about the hows and whys or the minutia involved.

[AllieSF]

Once I understood what TG stood for based on this site's definition, which I understand follows similar definitions from other sources, I readily accepted that umbrella label/definition for me. I have been here from just after I started dressing as a woman and just before I stepped out of the house for the first time. As many on this site say, I have no idea why I started to fully dress as a woman. I do know that any telltales from the past are very questionable as indicators of things to emerge when I was almost 60 years old. I just knew from that first moment fully dressed with makeup, wig and accessories that I was very happily amazed and knew that I had to explore this side of me, this other new activity much more. I believe that all this happens along a spectrum from panty wearers to post-op TS. I also understand from everything I read here and conversations with others that there is a distinct difference and separation between TS and the rest of us with many similarities too.

I know that I have been moving along that spectrum and may be already in that "tweener" zone. I have to ask myself occasionally why have I spent a little over 4 years and thousands of dollars to remove my facial hair, pierced my ears, keep polish on my finger and toe nails, grown my hair to below my shoulder blades, have a wardrobe of mostly thrift store clothes that would permit me to go full time many times over, and the last more important question where is this all going. My quick answer is because it makes me very happy. But I know that it is much more than that.

Since the science and research to-date is limited, some frequently asked questions may never be answered in my lifetime. I am, however, beginning to think that whatever is inside of us non-TS's that compels us to go against social custom may be very similar to, and maybe even the same as what affects TS's. It could be that for us non-TS's we just have a lower powered version of what TS's have and will stop somewhere along the path. In other words, for some and definitely not all, we may continue along the spectrum until we reach a point where we feel that we are better balanced, both internally/emotionally and externally regarding how we fit into society, including family, work, friends and the rest of that real outside world. As some of my respected friends sometimes say, I am a CD+++ and/or gender fluid. Like Mikell, I am always me no matter how presenting. I am just not sure now who is the whole me! Hopefully, I will continue to learn and improve and eventually find my position on our multicolored and faceted rainbow.

[Robin414]

Hi Katey, ya I did read to the end (my ADD is making me twitchy)...oh look, a rabbit...arrrg stay focused 😧

I'd say right now I'm happily 'TG' based on the formal definition. That said though I still think of TG as having gone all the way (presenting en femme 100% of the time)...but that's only because of the definition of 'Trans', if I take a 'trans' Atlantic flight I don't think I'd be too happy stopping somewhere 'tween' for any length of time, good thing the 'fluid' in 'gender fluid' isn't ice cold salt water 😂

I like to think I'm happy being somewhere be'tween' but I'm also beginning to think it's like balancing on a tight rope, maybe it's not a 'stable condition'. I know many people CAN live there indefinitely, I think.

I admit, I'm still kinda new to this and I'm sooo far from where I was I'm still working on self efficacy...I think that's the key, being yourself, while being 'yourself'...or in my case 'my new self'

Oh, and I do open some posts with the ol' "I'm not TG but..." but only when I'm barging in on a thread in the TS forum (so I don't get beat up too badly 😢 ) 😂

[GretchenJ]

Hey Katey,

using your our post as a primer, I can give you a better understanding of how I feel.

Based upon your definition, I would most definitely feel that I am TG, and more specifically gender fluid.



Yes, I am predominantly male identified. I don’t know that I consider myself to have a 'mixed' internal gender but perhaps it must be to some degree...

I am predominantly male identified EXTERNALLY but internally, I believe that are aspects of my personality traits that are both male and female simultaneously. My therapist believes in this regards, that internally, I am much more female than male and I tend to believe that assessment




However you describe it there is clearly a strong need (not just desire) to express myself in a visually feminine way. This isn’t to attract men (not gay or bi) but at the same time I wouldn’t want to be seen as unattractive


It is a need to express myself on the outside as well, it is to put a face, a personna to how I feel on the inside. It is a constant work in progress and has expanded and deepened over time, Two years ago, I would have worn anything, but recently I have developed a style that is constantly being redefined and is solely individual - it is not to attract men, but rather to seek acceptance from the public at large.

This is why my desire to just dress at home and not go out has waned for me, it must be for a purpose, and it must be out in public - unless my inability to become Gretchen for a long period of time increases my stress which dictates me just staying home.





I don’t feel like a man “that has a strong drive to express a feminine look” when I am transformed – it is more than that. I do feel that the transformation – visually representational as it is – acts as a conduit for something that is a part of my identity that does not predominate, but is strong enough that it has to find an outlet. Dressing isn’t just about the clothes as it seems to be for many - it's a means to an end – the clothes are just part of the overall image that lets me yell at the world “I may be a male underneath this, but look how much more is enabled when I can express myself physically to the world in this other aspect of me…” and for me that is accentuated by mannerisms, posture, movement… and the feeling of being able to comfortably express all of that, in an image that I know most of vanilla society will see as feminine


Spot on!!!!!! I could not have said it any better, and that is totally me as well






So it’s so much more than just portraying a ‘look’ – and it also has it’s unpleasant side in knowing that you can never be satisfied with the one-way ‘switch’ from one to the other (as with TS) and being locked in one mode – it’s a life that’s full of the conflict of being comfortable (generally) in one, but knowing that the other aspect must find a release every so often, to feel complete fulfilment.

At the end of the day, when I put the wig back and clean up, there is still the feelings of guilt, and a little sadness, but I am energized and ready to renew myself to try to be as good of a person, husband and father that I can be. I do treasure my male side as well, which sets be apart from those who detest their born as gender.

Gretch

[Hell on Heels]

Hell-o Katey,
Can I please get the name of that California wine?
Gotta get me some of that! Holy crap girlfriend what a great post!
When this CD thing reappeared in my life a few years back, I had never (not once) given a thought
to what it meant to be TG. Shortly after joining the forum I read through the definitions sticky.
At that time I still didn't give a thought as to if I fit the definition. After being a member here for a while,
reading, posting, and learning more about myself, and how much my thoughts and feelings seemed to be reflected
in soooo many others responses, really made me think about what I was doing, and how CDing had always been
a part of my life. Sure it would come and go, but it was always there.
Then at some point I come across a look into Gender Dysphoria, WTF ? Is there a treatment for that.
Massive doses of antibiotics? Steroids? Nooo! Turns out it's hormones (so I hear anyway) and then possibly falling deeper down that "rabbit" (Yeah...calm down Robin!) hole.
Then I got to thinkin', and have posted this thought in some form before.... We all dress. (DUH ! But not my point)
We all crossdress (except possibly a few drag performers here) completely for our own satisfaction.
Wether it be done at home in private, or out in public, we all get some sort of satisfaction from it.
Regardless of anyone's personal preference, or level of dress expression, there is some form of Gender Dysphoria
going on.
With all that said, and given the general definition provided,
I'm HAPPILY able to identify myself as TG. (OH NO!!! What's next?)
Chill out people! Identifying as TG won't change your life, if anything
it may just open it.
Much Love,
Kristyn
BTW Katey, don't think I forgot. I'm waiting for that label !

[Jazzy Jaz]

Interesting! I just spent a long time (I'm a very slow typer) posting on the former current thread about this responding to those questions without noticing and having no idea that this thread was started. Its too long to repost here so, I guess its there.

[pamela7]

transgender includes TS in my world view. My sense of GID has changed over this last year, hugely thanks to debates here. I have a happiness dressed en-femme that is entirely missing if even one piece of mancloth is present. Something as simple as a pair of trackies, well the ladies ones feel nicer, softer, easier on my skin which has always been super-soft - and made some women envious over the years - and so yes a woman in a male body makes me TG.

and yes i did read to the end - that long paragraph included.

[Katey888]

Thanks so far all - I've read through your replies but I'll leave it a little while before I make any more comments - however, Zooey has asked that I inject some questions on her behalf (so as not to disrupt the TG-only view - thanks Zooey:)) - these are related to Ceera's reply:


I certainly don't identify as 'a man who wants to just look female'. When I want to be Ceera, I become, in as much as is possible without surgical alteration, a female version of myself, with a rather different personality than my male side.


Over the years, I realized there were a lot of other 'female things' that I enjoyed far more than a male is supposed to in our society. Women's clothes, makeup, jewelry, shoes... all those tangible things appealed to me. But it went further than that. I found I could roleplay a female character so convincingly that others, who interacted with e on-line for years, were solidly convinced I was a real girl. But it wasn't just me enjoying the clothes and accessories. Behaviors, attitudes and priorities shifted accordingly. It also didn't matter if the character I was portraying was straight, lesbian or a hermaphrodite (both gender's 'functional bits' in one body). My mind can shift and adapt freely between the gender roles.

Question from Zooey is: Here's what I don't understand (and see as something of a contradiction) here... Words like "want to be", "rather different personality", "transform", etc. To me, all of this sounds like a method-acting man who really likes acting like a woman.

Why should personality change in this way? If it's a genuine bi-gender or otherwise non-binary identity, the self should be consistent, should it not? I can understand wanting to change presentation, at least to an extent, but I do not understand personality changes.

[pamela7]

i do recall starting with this "girl mode" / "drab mode" distinction. I also recall a "borderline" client who i observed transitioning between selves over several hours or days sometimes. And I've observed my own self-mindset shifting through time. We as humans are generally multiples, unaware that we are playing out many parallel, sequential identity/role programs. Some people remain fixed and steady, same all the time, while others "shapeshift" (or, adapt to each person or situation). The shapeshifter is well suited to this multi-mode of male-female time-share of the body. Sometimes an actor can get type-cast or role-cast, or even character-cast, whereas others can flip easily in or out, while others method-act into a role.

From a jungian perspective, the later-onset CD can be seen as a form of the returning anima, whereby the person attains a wholeness of being through becoming "the not me"/"the other". and then we have also have to accept there is no logic and we are impelled upon doing this beyond reason and that it is life or death literally in the case of the TS.

So, another martini?

[Rogina B]

I feel that those of us that identify as TG [all encompassing] tend to be open and out about it. It is an internal thing and the outer packaging could change but the inner person remains the same. I do my best to live a satisfying life by owning who I am and standing up for it. life is too short to live otherwise.

[kittie60]

Simple answer. In the beginning no. All the turmoil and everything else with family and friends just wasn't worth it. Then finally in my mid forties I finally came to terms with it then in my fifties I finally embraced it and now live 24/7 as female. I am truely much more happier now. Its been a long hard struggle would have been easier if we had internet and forums like this back in my day, but we made it.

[CarlaWestin]

I love it when we try to pick it apart. I'm biologically male but societally not macho. More kinda' skinny wiseguy. Sexualy, I'm hetero/asexual. My adventures into female are just that, adventures. I'm in it for the excitement, the uniqueness and the thrill of delving into the forbidden. And crossdressing is my primary passion in life. I would consider physical augmentation (hormone therapy, facial hair removal, pierced ears, even breast implants) if my financial and spousal situation were different but, never have I felt the need to totally transition. Other than entertaining extreme fantasy, I'm just comfortable being my version of homosapien.

[Teresa]

Katey,
After my bumpy road going through counselling I've finally settled at the male side of TS, so now I accept the TG umbrella .
I agree with most of your description, but I've lived with a strong male/female conflict which I now understand, yes it is sexual and remains so, something I now find frustrating at times. As you know I've recently attended my fist social meeting and I can't wait for the next one, I didn't go out to put an act on it was just the Teresa side of me being satisfied and it did feel good and so natural.
Just to make a comment about the other Cders at the meeting, they acted very similar, no false voice, not acting girly or camping it up .

Nice analogy with artists and their painting, it's why I asked if I could dress to attend my art group, expressing myself in two ways !

I believe I am now happily TG , like most it comes with an IF and a BUT ! My family know now but they haven't seen me in reality so it still has it's acceptance problems.

[Kate Simmons]

The way I see it, it's actually part of "me" I'm expressing that is somewhat freer than my normal mode. I'm somewhat bolder in femme mode. Do I cansider myself TG? Sure do. :)

[Jamie Christopher]

Thanks Katey for this great read!

Jamie

[Ceera]

Question from Zooey is: Here's what I don't understand (and see as something of a contradiction) here... Words like "want to be", "rather different personality", "transform", etc. To me, all of this sounds like a method-acting man who really likes acting like a woman.

Why should personality change in this way? If it's a genuine bi-gender or otherwise non-binary identity, the self should be consistent, should it not? I can understand wanting to change presentation, at least to an extent, but I do not understand personality changes.

Honestly, I am still coming to an understanding of who and what I am myself. Answering your question may be as elusive as the question "Why do any of us cross-dress?".

I think if it was merely a matter of me being a male method actor, I could have made the choice to not spend all that money on girl stuff, or to risk the rejection and embarrassment of coming out as gender fluid. My life would be so much simpler if I could cram that genii back into her bottle! Yet I feel compelled to live at least part of my life as a woman and express that part of my personality.

Human psychology includes a thing that clinically is called "Multiple Personality Disorder", in which one person's physical body has more than one 'personality' controlling it. Someone with MPD might at some times think and act as a normal, adult female, and at other times revert to the personality of an adolescent girl. Sometimes the personalities are extremely different from one another (one dominant and confident, one timid and shy), and not just a 'younger version' of that person. Sometimes the personalities are not the same gender. Sometimes there are more than two such personalities in a person's mind, each occasionally in control of the body. People with MPD often have no control over which personality is 'in charge' and active at a given time, and various things might trigger the change between them.

But some people with MPD can control it, and can shift at will between the personalities. This usually requires the various personalities recognizing and accepting that the others exist, and not denying it. For example, a psychiatrist working with someone with MPD might ask, "I'd like to speak to Katy now, and not Katherine", and Katherine, the adult woman, shifts at will into the childlike personality of Katy.

Why does MPD happen? We do not have a definitive answer, but sometimes it is a response to a mental shock or an extreme circumstance (such as being the victim physical abuse or witnessing a death), and sometimes it just seems to be how that person's mind was formed from birth.

Here's one theory: Identical twins grow up to have different personalities. If the brain of an unborn child began that split to form twins, but the embryo never divided to become two distinct bodies, could not the two minds develop and coexist in one body?

Or to give that a more metaphysical slant, a pair of twins both have souls. If two souls were assigned to a birth but the division into two bodies didn't happen, could not both souls inhabit the same body? The native American concept of someone being "two-spirit" is something like that. Many cultures accept that some rare individuals seem to possess multiple spirits or souls.

So here's another, even harder to prove theory: Twins run in my family. Prior to my birth, my mom lost a pair of fraternal twins in childbirth - a boy and a girl. Who knows? Maybe when I was born the next time she got pregnant, both of their souls were transferred to me? When I finally stand to face my creator, it's a question I hope to have answered.

Now, I haven't seen a shrink and been clinically diagnosed as having MPD. But what I do when I switch back and forth between my default male personality and my female personality as Ceera feels very much like what psychologists describe for someone with MPD who has it under voluntary control. For me, there is the personality that I was raised to show to the world (Jay, a male), and there is a second personality that was repressed all my life (Ceera, a female), a side of me which I never dared show to anyone else, and which I only recently allowed to show herself to the world. My male personality has been shaped by a lifetime of living as a male and repressing any feminine or bisexual urges. My female personality has very little life experience, but is not repressed in any way. So it's like twins, one of whom has traveled widely and seen the world, while at the same time having society's preconceived notions of appropriate gender-role and sexual orientation behavior heavily impressed onto him - and one who has led a secluded and cloistered life, but has very few preconceived notions about what appropriate behavior is for her, and who really couldn't care less about society's gender or sexual orientation based rules. Of course their personalities, likes and dislikes are different!

An example of the personality differences:

My male personality is still fairly repressed about things like being openly bisexual. He knows and accepts that he is bi, and that he finds some males attractive, though in general he prefers women. But he can't bring himself to walk into a gay bar and chat up a guy he finds attractive. He has a hard time with the idea of publicly being perceived as gay or bi. He even has a hard time buying gay porn to enjoy in private, even though he knows he likes it almost as much as he likes straight porn. He's still blocked by decades of telling himself, "You can't do that! You don't dare admit that!" He's also relatively shy and reserved, and doesn't go out much to bars, clubs or dances or music events. He was married for 30 years and maintained a monogamous relationship the whole time, until his wife's untimely death made him a widower. He's still rather hesitant to socialize as a single male and seek a new relationship. He has a very limited circle of friends, and has no close friends locally yet, having just moved to a new town.

My female personality doesn't care what others think she should or should not do. She's perfectly comfortable in gay bars and nightclubs, or in straight restaurants, bars and social venues, openly socializing and flirting with both men and woman, and happy to receive affection from either gender. If she cared about society's gender or orientation rules, she wouldn't show her face in public. Her best social friends have been a group of lesbian ladies, and she has no hesitation about being perceived as a lesbian while she is seen with them. She considers herself to be bi, leaning heavily towards lesbian. She's outgoing and gregarious and loves to be socially active. She goes to bars and nightclubs and dance clubs and charity events and singles events, and has a blast. She has a rapidly growing circle of friends and makes friends easily. She recently volunteered to start helping to coordinate happy hour and social events with an LGBTQ Ladies group.

Edited to add:

I'll just add one more point. I mentioned that Multiple Personality Disorder may possibly be caused by certain high-stress incidents. Looking back, I have suitable incidents in my past that could possibly explain my MPD symptoms.

When I was in high school, my male self was seduced/raped by an older male (college aged). He was the son of my parents' best friends, and my math tutor. He was highly trusted by the family. It was somewhat traumatic, and I only ever told one person about it, years later - my wife. It wasn't a violent incident, but I already knew my father's inability to even discuss homosexuality, and so I just suppressed it and said nothing. The young man who seduced me died just a few months later, in a motorcycle accident, and I saw no reason to besmirch his memory or my own reputation by revealing what he had done. That may, however, have been the start of my both acknowledging I was bi (I did like it), and of repressing that side of me, (I couldn't accept or acknowledge it). Did the event trigger the separation of my feminine side from my male side? Possibly. It would have been easier to accept what happened if I had been a girl. And he did stop when I expressed unease about proceeding 'past third base', as it were.

I didn't allow myself to even consider exploring my feminine side until my parents were both no longer living. and I didn't try to publicly dress or come out to my daughter until my wife died. Another trigger? Again, possibly.

I'll see a therapist soon, and maybe I will find out more.

[Heidi Stevens]

What a lovely little confessional you've opened up here, Katey! I'm glad everyone is being honest and trying hard to put into words how a transgendered person really experiences life. In my case it was a revelation after being able to be dressed for a long period of time in the fall of 2014. The long period to remain in female mode gave me time to reflect on my true identity. I reflected on how I saw myself when alone and when I was in a mixed group of friends. Everything was adding up that I handled myself as a female alone and with other people. I knew I needed help and explored therapy after the Holidays.

I began the gender therapy with an open mind and gave all that could to confirming or denying my own diagnosis. I told the therapist how I tended to gravitate to the ladies group(s) at gatherings, I found the guys boorish and really not interested in the conversation going on. I feel at ease with the ladies and not really pressured to "perform" like I do when I try to present a male persona. It took only four visits before she confirmed my fall conclusion, Heidi was living inside and would love to come out and be herself.

I started HRT in March of 2015. The immediate effect on me was the calming of my anxiety. As a lot of you know, I am in a very loving relationship that I don't want to end. The compromise is for me to present male around my wife. Thanks to the HRT I am able to live this way for now. I still relate to everything female and my wife does give me the space to have long out of town outings and enjoy time as a lady. People have asked if I'm really transgender on this site. Again, I point out that my love for my wife is the ONLY thing keeping me from full transition. I don think of this being "gender fluid" I am female in my mind and in the minds of my professional medical providers. Everyone who has met me while presenting as a female says all my natural actions are nothing but female in their opinion. When I can dress and interact, I just do things without thinking about it. It comes natural to me, without forethought. Now this doesn't mean I don't think about what I'm doing! I'm a female! Yes, I make sure my outfit and hair are in place. Is my makeup presentable. What is she wearing and how can I do that. I think that's why I know Im transgendered, all things female are normal for me and it comes without thought. That is the main thing in life, are you just being yourself alone and with others with out having to consciously think about it! And now this girl's going to go have lunch! :smug:

[reb.femme]

Hi Katie,

Well, it's an unequivocal yes to being TG and very much gender fluid. I just wish I could spend more time dressed, but my life will not tolerate that, at this moment in time anyway. I cannot hide my feminine tendencies all the time. I find myself skipping down stairs in ultra girl stylie, sitting with closed crossed legs or even hands crossed in a very femme pose, on public transport for all to see. There is no totally disguising the girl within and I'm also leaning toward letting her out more, but that needs serious consideration.

I currently have a feeling of an inexplicable something in my belly, like Ripley in Alien, that is just waiting, no...yearning to get out. I can feel this building as I haven't dressed in a while, but this will be remedied on Saturday evening. Let's see if the feeling subsides after that. Personally, I don't think so, as I am never happier than when I'm dressed even slightly femme, ie my satin nightie and dressing gown for example.

As a wrap up here. In my own mind, I don't ever see transitioning being on the cards but never say never? I'm no way near such a consideration but I certainly realise, dressing is not something that I can stop doing ad infinitum. Is it a happy middle ground? Can I come back to you on this?

Becky

[Candice June Lee]

This is a great thread Katey,
I've had to come to terms with myself over the last few months. Yes I feel and believe deep down I'm transgender. I don't think a full surgical transition will happen. But in the time since June of 2015, I've come much closer to myself than I have ever. I was close to this point once before. A serious (at least to me) life event stopped that back then. Candi went into the box and ice the years the needs and desires came stronger, then hiding the needs and on and on. Anyway, as having a wonderful supporting and understanding SO, I've gotten an appointment with a therapist on the 22nd. We'll see where that takes me. The past months, especially since November have been some of the greatest months of happiness I can ever remember. Especially when I can get out enfem and be me. It covers just as naturally and easy as anyone can ever imagine. Though I have to still be male me during the better portion of the week. But the weekend's bring femininity that I feel inside all week. If would just rather be on the fem side at work and all week than to walk this duality that seems to rip me apart from inside out. So to try and stay on track here, right now in having to walk a gender fluid life rather than the trans life I've wanted.

[mechamoose]

<= Gender fluid

What day is it again? Oh look, BUNNIES! (I have bunnies outside my workshop window. They are a joy and a distraction)

(Happily straddling the lines, weaving back and forth across the road)

<= different girl on different days, still a girl none the less.

Some of reach out for an outlet, sometimes *any* outlet, to let that person through. To be recognized, to be appreciated. That can lead to bad situations.

For some, those bad situations put us at odds with our spouse. Some put them at odds with ourselves.

Those are the arguments and fallout. You need to look for the root of it and understand it. Only then can you be at peace, no matter whatever else happens once you understand that. No guarantee against damage given or implied.

(IMHO)

(Thank you Katey)

Additional: I know all about stress induced 'X'-phrenia. I had a job which threw me over the edge and has had me out of my normal work for just over a year. I was earning just under $90k (US), but if I kept after it, it was going to give me a stroke. 60+ hours a week, plus 'remote' time and 3 hours in the car every day. My doctors warned me to the risk. If I kept on my path, I was going to hurt myself, more than I was already hurting myself (liquor, etc).

We can't do every thing and anything.. ok, yes we can, so long as the sacrifice is worth it.

This wasn't worth it.



- MM

[Secret Drawer]

I identify as TG.
The two big (Huge) differences I see between me fundamentally, and CD typical thought processes are:
One, I am a gender male, thus technically crossdress. However, I don't concieve of myself as a crossdresser, as it is just a natural thing, completely non sexual or even in a sense, fun.
Two, is that I accept the genetic cards I have been dealt, thus don't bother with wigs or forms, I have a sort of natural b cup, and with padded bra, can just be. If I had the luck of good hair, not male pattern baldness hair, I would grow it long and hey, great! But I don't dress to disguise who I am, which seems to be exactly the same at all points dressed, undressed, and inbetween.
I have recently just "gone for it" and have ventured out. Did not expect the outcome, which was not thrilling or exciting, but rather more like a correction, like a "so yeah, why haven't you been doing this for years, and all the time?"
Other than that, and the permanent anxiety from playing a gender role I don't quite fit, I can identify with the social issues that befall CD's.
One thing that may make sense for some: I researched "gender preferences." Those things that regard how one gender prefers certain ways of being over another. Like learning processes, conflict resolution, those sorts of things. (Not to do with motorsports vice gymnastics or anything contrived... blue vs pink... please!) These studies show how cis-gendered people rather readily accept these roles, while TG's are percentages of to much wider degrees. I seem to be 80 to 85% female in preference testing (academic, not Cosmopolitan) so that may go a long way to explain the inner nature of a TG if one cares to investigate.

[mechamoose]

..and most mundanes won't say a word (at least where I live)

SecretD: Please take this with a LARGE grain of salt. I live an an amazingly liberal place. I get to be this way without 'rednecks' chasing me down. I'd still be me, I'd just have more bruises. (Or I can share stories about my times in Texas)

"They can take my heels when they pry them from my cold, dead feet"

I'm a b!tch, and I know it. I'm not the average member. I only seek to be an example for what is possible.

Sorry, I'm putting the weapons down now...

I feel the *need* to decorate, feather the nest, make it warm and inviting. I feel it in my bones. I cook, I fuss, I cluck.

What is that if not 'traditional' female traits? Where else does that go or belong? I'm a bull male and I worry about drapes matching the furniture??

As mentioned in another thread, I think it is a kind of mental dysphoria.

It needs its own recognition, beyond the physical arguments we have. Some of us are males with a girl inside. Some of us are males with a GIRL inside. I'm the lesser of those. I still belong here. If not, where else do I belong?

<3

- MM

[Pat]

I'll sign on as "happily TG." :)

I'm definitely on the gender spectrum, not at either end. We keep saying that sex is different than gender and so I am happy to accept that my sex is male, but my gender is -- complicated.

Katey's OP brings up an interesting thing about the TG experience: the visual aspect. That's a key to me as well. Humans are programmed to recognize other humans and we have a sense of what's right about them or wrong when we look at them. There was a thread a while back about how you felt when you first saw "her" in the mirror. To me, the first time I saw "her" in me there was a shock of recognition. That was who I was. The person I had been seeing in the mirror up to then was not.

Now I phrase that as two personalities in one body staring across at themselves, but that's not what I feel. I feel I'm me at all times. At first we don't have the vocabulary to express what we're feeling so often we carve out two personalities since that fits our vocabulary -- there's Patrick who is male and Jennie who is female. But as I learned more (and much from this site) I realized I was always the same person. And I started losing my obsession with "passing" when I crossdressed. Now I'm actually happier that I'll never be mistaken as a real, genetic woman -- that's not what I want people to see. I want them to see a man presenting female (and looking damn good) and being happy with that in-between state. Sex = male / Gender = other.

Achieving the shock of recognition had another side effect -- suddenly I cared about me. Viewed in retrospect I think my previous life could be viewed as long-form suicide attempt. I didn't like the male gender-acting me. So I was a slob -- who cares what he looks like? I was overweight. I was diabetic. I wore clothes that were older than my kids (eldest is 27 at this writing.) Now I care. I dropped 50-ish pounds, my diabetes is asymptomatic and I rarely make it though a week without buying some new bit of clothing that I'm excited to wear. In the morning the first word out of my mouth used to be Crap !!! I was sad to be alive. And now I wake up and wonder what's the perfect thing to wear today?

Sorry -- probably TMI, huh? Here's another observation about the visual aspect though -- and I think it argues that we're recognizing ourselves when we crossdress -- some people say that crossdressers are looking for attention or are closeted gays trying to attract men. We can look at our own closeted cousins and dispute that, I think. Certainly if you read through some of the heartbreaking testimony of what our closeted brethren do to avoid detection you can refute that they're doing it for attention. And since they are closeted or hyper-closeted they're not trying to attract men. They're trying to attract themselves. And certainly when I dress I choose my outfit with some sense of what activity I'm going to be engaging in, but more than anything else, I'm looking to make me happy. (Which interestingly squares up perfectly with what women have always said about their own dressing when the men start trying to shame them for provocative dressing. "It's not for you, it's for me!" they say.)

Is it all visual? Probably not. Underdressers hide what they're wearing. Their enjoyment is in their heads. They don't go past the mirror a hundred times a day to say to themselves "I do her..." It's the knowledge that they're wearing panties or knee-highs or whatever that's driving them. That's filling in the little empty spot that forms when someone on the spectrum tries to pretend he's living at one end.

Now, I have TS friends. I have a TS girlfriend who finished her transition more than a decade ago. I have no doubt in my mind that they are not like whatever I am. The ones I know are definitely women top-to-bottom, front-to-back, every day of their lives. They are TG according to the definition, but they're not TG like I am.

And another thing.... oh! look a bunny!

[mechamoose]

You don't have to look like a girl to attract men, trust me. Traditional men are pretty indiscriminate. After all we can breed our entire lives, GGs don't have that option.

(Most) men are ****s.

Take it from a bi man with a long leash.

BUNNIES!!! (Cute little brown ones, hiding under the bushes)

- MM

[Jenny22]

Do you remember Virginia Prince and her TRANSVESTIA magazine? Other then the library, that was my only non-porn source for information. I did CD only because I had to! There was no term to give to my brain's female feelings, then. With the internet, I learned that I was really TG, a new term for me that fit! I'm happy being TG.

[DTelia]

This may be a little bit of a tangent for this thread...but I there's a strange component in the definition because "who" determines what "femininity" is? I like long feminine hair. But I'm also clearly influenced by the 20-21st centuries that mandate what feminine hair and masculine hair looks like. If it were the reverse, and men were styling their long locks and women were shaving theirs short...would I want shorter hair instead? Same applies to clothing.

I also wonder just how many of us would be into this CDing thing, if we lived 100, 200, 300 years ago when life was much different....when we were more worried about whether our crops were going to make it, whether the cows were milked, etc, than we were about wearing women's clothing. Men/women of those generations were too busy had no access to Internet, movies, TV, etc. I think a lot of our desires have been enhanced and transformed by the modern world.

Perhaps these things don't really related to the original post. I'm just saying that the spectrum of Transgenderism/Crossdressing probably wasn't as broad. Transexuals may be a different matter, especially on the genetic side.

My two cents.

[Pat]

I also wonder just how many of us would be into this CDing thing, if we lived 100, 200, 300 years ago when life was much different...

We didn't always have the words "crossdresser" or "transgender" but there have been people who acted like us in all cultures at all times in recorded history. We are not symptoms of first world problems. ;) I do think that modern conveniences make it possible to ask the questions about ourselves that are coming out now and the communication makes us realize our numbers are such that we have validity.

[NicoleScott]

Katey, good for you for providing a definition of TG. I thought it was to provide a working definition for this discussion, but people are going to use their own anyway.
Note the words "diverse" and "varying degrees". That covers a lot of people, from part-time CDers to transitioned TS. Some people of all kinds say they are TG and some say they are not, for whatever reason they choose.
I think that a very large number of people here use TG to define themselves as "more than CD, less than TS". Not me.
I am an occasional pleasure dresser who always identifies as a guy, and I fall under the TG umbrella, so I am CDer and TG.

[DTelia]

We didn't always have the words "crossdresser" or "transgender" but there have been people who acted like us in all cultures at all times in recorded history. We are not symptoms of first world problems. ;) I do think that modern conveniences make it possible to ask the questions about ourselves that are coming out now and the communication makes us realize our numbers are such that we have validity.

right...of course...but I think we've been influenced...and the internet, etc has opened doors for some and opened them wider for others. Yes, I'm saying there would be fewer of us in those earlier eras.

[TaraGrace]

Hmm, respond or not.. tick tock, hit the reply button..
thanks for the execellent read all, I have to comment here too :)

Ceera, thanks so much for your first post, that was a 90% match of what I would have written.. slighty strange even to find a match so close to mine.
we split up a bit on your second post, but I might be able to add atleast some info to your text.

So I've only discovered Tara lurking in the background a few months ago, and coming here was an excellent decision, piecing back bits of puzzle talking and reading has at least put my mind at ease that it's not just something I was curious for, but simply put in a wrong tick-box for years.

I don't identify with a man who wants to look female either, just judging by the amount of messages I sent out with hugs/kisses/sweetie/hun etc. whilst not even slightly looking fem.
Nor do I feel as a woman trapped in a male body, I'm quite happy to look at the mirror image of both faces and say "hey you, you look great".

I have however for many years thought my femine side was due to my bi-sexuality, and there is a shoppinglist of clues I simply ticked off as "bi".
Only recently realising that shopping, makeup, conversation etc. it CAN turn me on, but 9 out of 10 times it is not sexual at all.
Which in retrospect wisdom I should have known as even my bi side is prodominantly domminant and not passive.

Like Ceera mentions (and thanks so much for this, I totally forgot I had once quite actively done this), I too have roleplayed as a female.. the internet was new (92-93) and at age 16-17 there were several IRC chat channels I was in as female.
Ok, sure.. I'll admit to some flirting and sexual tension, but 95% it was 'clean' and what teen doesn't enjoy a bit of flirting ;)

As much as I adore TS, and sure a part desires being a complete woman, changing sex from M to F wouldn't fit.. I enjoy both too much, so shapeshifting :)
Remember "I dream of Jeannie"? The very best childhood dreams were being able to fly.. the second best were having Jeannie power to blink my eyes and switch gender!

.....

Ceera, to add to your second post ;

I can follow why you mention on MPD (and interesting enough my father was the male part of a m/f twin according to my grandmother with the girl dying in labour).
But here we don't align.. I have a constant basic mindset if you will which (symbolicly speaking) I choose to hang centre-left or centre-right.. not left or right.

Tara isn't younger either, although as Tara I am far less experienced, so enclined to seek out new things.
And sure, being Tara enables a more playfull side too, but lets not forget default m/f differences.., just compared to business clothing.. there's a limited amount of male clothing choices, where the female wardrobe can be endlessly mixed and matched.

As for bravery.. hmm, I am lucky to have found confidence and change my life years ago.
So no big differences there, perhaps as Tara I am a bit more direct, but most likely due to catching up, where as certain things in male mode are 'been there, done that'.

But then again, I do share a very similar experience, and yes I do aknowledge that led to some serious denial issues and even homophobia for some years.
Having asked myself the question for years "did these events shape my mind, or even make me the way I am now?"..
I figured out years ago it's a simple "no" -> but it did mess me up and is most likely why Tara was hidden for 20-30 years.
Age 20-25 seemed to take forever, and accepting my bi-sexuality eventually had consumed so much energy, I guess also some overcompensation (hurray world I am bi-sexual) so my mind attributed girlie features or thoughts to being bi-sexual to confirm being bi.
such a pitty I wasted years, but perhaps good, as 25 -> 30 were awesome in confidence building.

So how do I see it.. well, almost like I see bi-sexuality.. it's just a door in my brain opened because I found a key and used it.
Perhaps simply put ; it's like eating/drinking something new and deciding yes, this was nice, let's have some more next time too.
ps, I actually try food I don't like atleast once a year.. since tastebuds changed over the years, it's always intertaining to try :)

x Tara

[mechamoose]

So how do I see it.. well, almost like I see bi-sexuality.. it's just a door in my brain opened because I found a key and used it.
Perhaps simply put ; it's like eating/drinking something new and deciding yes, this was nice, let's have some more next time too.
ps, I actually try food I don't like atleast once a year.. since tastebuds changed over the years, it's always intertaining to try :)

People are people. If someone is cool, they are cool. What does it matter what bits they have, especially in THIS community?

GMs and GG's are different. They smell different, they taste different. Both have their own attractions and repulsions.

You either like them or you don't.

Please don't conflate your desires with your identity. They have nothing to do with each other.

- MM

[Robin414]

I was just over at the makeup counter and heard the conversation...it's kinda loud 😉 Wow MM, you know how to speak your mind, but that's why I'm a MM fan! 😀

Back to trying out new nail polish colors....☺

[Dana44]

Katey, great thread... As you all know I am gender fluid. It is a strange thing as we are not comfortable in our own skin as one gender. It does put us in the middle of the TG spectrum. But it seems that over time one drifts closer to one gender than the other. Hopefully it goes back toward the birth gender. As a male who gets to express his fem side. Well, the fem side seems better, but is it really. As a male I've accomplished many great things and am still doing it. But this male is getting more and more feminine all of the time. I would never transition fully to a female as I could never be comfortable with that either. A very strange place to be.

[mechamoose]

I swerve all over that road and line like a Scotsman on a late Friday night.

There is no single correct answer. We each have to answer for ourselves about identity and courage to express it. Our own risks and gains.

Buy seriously, it may be RELATED to sexuality, bit it ISN'T sexuality. Different issue, honest.

- MM

[Zoe B]

I was not entirely sure if I should hit the reply button or not, I have been reading all your comments and it has been an amazing read from beginning to end. Nervous as I am I thought I should get my opinions down now.

When I first started dressing I would have put myself in the cross dressers category, but more recently I have started to discover that it is more than that, I am currently a student on a gender studies course and while I have been working through the CD-TG-TS section I have come to realize that Zoe is me or at least a part of me that I have to express and not exclusively through dressing.

Yes I am predominately male and I am happy being so but there is a part of me that I just can't keep hidden or ignore, enter Zoe she allows me to express my more feminine side and see things in a very different way to my male side. Yes I dress and I use that to show me in my full capacity as me. I do not want to switch to being a female full time as I would miss my male persona. But I find that I have to allow myself to be feminine in all aspects or I start to lose myself.

I am sure I am rambling by this point so I will apologize right now but I didn't want to miss the opportunity of responding this time.

Zoe

[mechamoose]

When that self comes out, it *won't* go back in the box, no matter how hard you try. It will pop up over and over. Accept it an embrace it, you don't really have a choice anymore.

Providing that you are being truthful with yourself.You have identified a change, go with it.

The wheel turns...

- Mystical Moose

[Pat]

Darn rabbit. Got away. Again.

So I'm thinking about this:


1) I think there are a lot of Male identified Crossdressers that consider themselves to have mixed internal gender, when in fact they are confusing a need to dress like a woman or express femininity as an identity, it isn't. It's just a man that has a strong drive to express a feminine look.

And I'm reminded of an old story that you all probably know but I'm going to tell anyway. Scroll past it -- I'll leave a marker.

There were once three blind men who heard a wonderful story about an elephant, but didn't know what an elephant was. They asked the storyteller and he said, "Dude. It's an elephant. It like an elephant. That's what elephants are like. If you don't know, I can't explain it to you."

This left the men unsatisfied, so they went to a zoo and snuck into the elephant pen. One of them walked up to the elephant and grabbed it's leg and said, "Guys! Guys, guys, guys! I understand now! An elephant -- it's like a tree trunk!"

But his friend walked up to the elephant's tail and touched it and said, "No, an elephant -- it's like a rope!"

But the third had grabbed the elephant's trunk and said, "No, no, an elephant is like a snake." And they all started to argue about what an elephant was based on their experience.

============

Now in this metaphor people who are not transgender are blind to us, and we are the elephant (in the room.) Thankfully they want to understand us and they approach us with the tools at their disposal to understand. But what they may perceive is a man who has a (mere) desire to dress like a woman, not an identity. And to an outside observer who can't know what we feel and does not want to accept what we say we feel, that's a plausible explanation. But it's wrong.

Probably it's a benefit that they don't have to accept our explanation, they just have to accept that we accept it and not try to fix us. ;)

There's that bunny again... this time he's MINE!

[becky77]

Katey, great thread... As you all know I am gender fluid. It is a strange thing as we are not comfortable in our own skin as one gender. It does put us in the middle of the TG spectrum. But it seems that over time one drifts closer to one gender than the other. Hopefully it goes back toward the birth gender. As a male who gets to express his fem side. Well, the fem side seems better, but is it really. As a male I've accomplished many great things and am still doing it. But this male is getting more and more feminine all of the time. I would never transition fully to a female as I could never be comfortable with that either. A very strange place to be.

Dana44 You are very vocal on saying you are Genderfluid. As I understand it that means that your very identity swings from male to female?
But are you being honest with yourself? Is your gender truly fluid or do you just want to dress as a woman sometimes and at other times not?

I ask this as I'm not sure everyone is being truthful in regards to identify vs expression.

For example in a previous thread you said this:
Lexi, that is a great point. I do think that some ... do think we are good. They are most likely shocked. For why I do not know. Women crossdresss virtually every day and never ask what we thought of them or why it may have bothered us. I said before in a forum that in fact with many men that I have talked to was that if she doesn't get in heels soon a divorce may be coming. Men want a woman that looks like one. Now the rolls seemed switched. It's funny that we set the fashion every time we go out wearing skirts while every woman out there has pants on. When a woman come into a store in a nice skirt and heels. All of the men look at her with admiration. So women crossdress as men - no problem. Men crossdress as women - problem? Yeah I agree... they pine on it for sure.
I must say that my SO wears a dress or miniskirt when we go out. I have told her that I truly appreciated that.

I'm sorry but I do not believe a woman or someone claiming to have a part woman identity would ever say this.
I would expect if you were truly gender fluid you would understand why that opinion is just wrong and frankly misogynistic. It smacks of a sexualised ideal of a woman not someone with genuine female empathy.

I'm not saying being Gender fluid is a myth but so far I haven't seen an honest example other than Marcelle. Who now admits to being TS.
I'm genuinely intrigued and wish to learn but I fear a few people just can't be honest with themselves. My main confusion being that each time I ask why someone feels they are in the middle they inevitably talk about being feminine in a way that borders on stereotyping.

What I want to hear about is the internal dialogue, those feelings of being different and how it surfaces in a relationship and social interactions.
How does it come out in friendships etc.The clothes are meaningless when it comes to true Gender identity.
For example if you are closeted but out with friends how does your mixed gender surface, are your friends also mixed?
Forgetting for now about the dressing does being dual gender cause issues with being intimate with someone?

Hope you don't mind the questions but this is a great learning tool.

[mykell]

hi becky,

the original aspect was transgender, an umbrella term which i felt i answered honestly i believe.......

as for gender fluid, i do feel that i am fluid, how to convey why......during parties and events i will say i gravitate to a womens circle of conversations, even in my support group. sometimes with the transmen ? ( think thats the right term ? ) while talking with them i am not as comfortable with... like when im in a circle of macho guys and move off to find better conversation, now of coarse their are times when i enjoy the banter and camaraderie when hanging out with guys as well....just more comfortable with the ladies, this goes back as far as i remember, even played and hung out with the girls in the neighborhood, barbie and whatnot, but still played in little league and stuff....

as far as relationships, sex, dont want to embellish on it in the open forum....

when in a mall i could shop for hours in guy mode with my wife and window shop all the time, but my preference is the ladies section and womens shops, male clothes are minimalist and basic for me, 6 pirs of shoes and sneaks all black, always interested in the looks and colors of womens fashion, not just wearing them....

would rip out every root of hair on my body if it would not piss off my wife, but have been shaving my legs for the first winter after cajoling my wife, will not be pleased when i have to start letting it come back in for the summer....

so im me and im me whichever way i dress, male is just easier, more accepted, conventional, just started getting out dressed female and it seamed to easy but i have very limited time with the natives in the wild....

[Pat]

I'm not saying being Gender fluid is a myth but so far I haven't seen an honest example other than Marcelle.


What I want to hear about is the internal dialogue, those feelings of being different and how it surfaces in a relationship and social interactions.


OK, I'll ignore the implication that we need to satisfy you to get our transgender identity approved and suggest some things you *ought* to be looking for. One is the recurring theme of behavior traceable back to early childhood. Frequently it's pre-pubescent which argues it's not a sexual trigger though it could still be a desire to emulate a female figure in the person's life -- Mom or a sister, say. If you go down the road of emulation, then you have to examine why they desire to emulate that person when so many other males do not. It could argue an emotional cause (momma's boy) or it could argue that there is recognition of a female role model because that role is "baked in" to that person. Ducks can be brought up imprinted on humans, but they're always ducks. Perhaps for some little boys can be brought up to be males but they'll alway be that other thing -- if you're willing to admit that other thing exists.

Then examine (and believe) the stories of people who describe their first conscious encounter with their female identities. Frequently those people describe an emotional shock on seeing "her" for the first time. Again, a shock of recognition. I'd say recognition that a suppressed part of their identity has been revealed. The experience is not unlike when you stop telling a complex lie or, more colloquially, when you stop hitting yourself with a hammer. The person suddenly realizes they should have been that all the time. Often coupled with unbidden tears.

Then consider the testimony of people who describe dressing for "stress relief" or how they dress more in times when there's stress in their lives. Compare that to relationship stress where couples argue about inconsequential things when the problem in their lives is sex. The mechanism is that externally they're in a fierce argument over whether butter belongs in the fridge or out of it, but the argument is really about sex -- but they don't want to talk about that, internally they're saying to themselves "I'm not putting up with our sex life and the butter too!" so they argue about the butter. People describing themselves talk about dressing relieving the stress in their lives, but it's just as plausible that the underlying, constant stress is NOT dressing (i.e. not acknowledging their mixed state) and adding external stress puts them over the edge. The clothes, in fact, are just clothes. But they are a focus. They invoke the female component of their personality that they've been suppressing so they can be Good Men.

Their internal dialog may not be apparent because we haven't (yet) taught people how to handle a transgender life. We provide no role models of what a successful transgender person looks like or behaves, so everyone is stumbling around in the dark trying to fit bits and pieces together. Yeah, we don't have a good story to tell the transgender deniers yet.

Transgender people I know have passed through the world of "manly men" reasonably well. They've learned their duties and responsibilities as men and can doggedly stick to them. (I did.) They are often alienated from manly men and don't know why. They are often creative loners because they have difficulty establishing common ground with other men and they are unwelcome in the world of women. In my case when I finally felt that I had discharged all my responsibilities I started "moving more toward the feminine side" meaning I started not pretending to male feelings I didn't have and stopped fighting against more feminine feelings that I do have. As a result, I'm more social, I'm healthier and happier and allowing for the fact I look a little weird to people judging me male (and it's hard not to -- I have male characteristics) I'm actually a more well-adjusted person than I was before. I do find that now I have a certain body dysphoria -- I can't stand hair growing out of me except on top of my head -- it offends me. I try to make my skin look and feel smoother than a man's skin so I wear subtle makeup even in "male mode." It's not the same dysphoria my TS friends have -- I don't have any issues with my genitalia or want to see bits of myself harmed.

So, am I really transgender? Am I really somewhere between male and female or do I just have a strong desire for a female appearance? Apparently you're the judge.

[Dana44]

Becky, when I wrote that part way back. I was likely in my male persona. Aka gender fluid is switching between male and female. But as any thing goes it can swing one way for a while and sometimes at the wrong time if you are in male mode doing something important. Had that problem all of my life, it took me awhile to find out what it was. There are probably not a lot like me here. But on other sites there is a a great discussion on it Gender fluid is real and many people have it. Not all are cross dressers. There is so few of us here that when one asked to make it a thread it did not get made. So, if you take things out of context here, I may be male when i posted or female on other posts. So heck yeah it may not be a womanly post.

[TaraGrace]

People are people. If someone is cool, they are cool. What does it matter what bits they have, especially in THIS community?

GMs and GG's are different. They smell different, they taste different. Both have their own attractions and repulsions.

You either like them or you don't.

Please don't conflate your desires with your identity. They have nothing to do with each other.

- MM

hiya Moose, I honestly tried to understand but I really can't.. so I have to ask.. did you quote me by mistake?

x Tara

[reb.femme]

An articulate reply, so I've just pulled a few bits out for comment.


OK, I'll ignore the implication that we need to satisfy you to get our transgender identity approved and suggest some things you *ought* to be looking for...

Couldn't have put it better myself. I am me and couldn't give a damn that Becky777 doesn't appreciate that we define ourselves.



...Transgender people I know have passed through the world of "manly men" reasonably well. They've learned their duties and responsibilities as men and can doggedly stick to them. (I did.) They are often alienated from manly men and don't know why. They are often creative loners because they have difficulty establishing common ground with other men and they are unwelcome in the world of women...

Strange, but this is me to a T, if you'll pardon the pun. I used to be a definite part of the male grouping (ex-military etc) but this has changed over the years and I can't stand being a part of the stereotypical group anymore.




...So, am I really transgender? Am I really somewhere between male and female or do I just have a strong desire for a female appearance? Apparently you're the judge.

In a nutshell. I/we are the final arbiters of our situation. This place, as the stock line goes is a spectrum of people, with very different and personal drivers.

Becky

[becky77]

Apparently you're the judge.

Not at all, I only know how I feel.
I experienced a lot of what you say and struggled with confusion. I was raised as a boy so did my best to fit that role, I've been through all the same emotions I would imagine or at least similar.
Ten years ago maybe I would be answering differently, I was very much in denial and actually thought TS people to be the real weirdos. Frankly it scared me.

I'm now following my heart because my head has deceived me, I mention honesty not because I'm calling people out, more because I know how I lied to myself but only therapy made me realise that.

I'm reading all this with interest wondering what is the fine line between TG and TS, it seems most of you aren't fighting against it. Sure there is frustration that you just can't be but I see an element of balance that was impossible for me.


Dana44 with the personality shift do you also have mood swings and does this change of thought process cause any issues at work, anyone ever notice your change in attitude?

If I was a bit younger I think I would like to train as a gender therapist, there is still so much unknown and objectively it's fascinating.



Couldn't have put it better myself. I am me and couldn't give a damn that Becky777 doesn't appreciate that we define ourselves.

I do appreciate it? I don't dispute a Transgender identity although I think that just scratches the surface, TG is more an umbrella description it's a little too vague to truly understand what people are experiencing internally.

I just don't think being feminine is any kind of guide.
I'm pretty feminine myself and that in the past has made me question what I'm about.

[Dana44]

Becky,
This thread explains some of the thought process of my switch over. I'm a DES kid and I think the synthetic estrogen that washed over my brain caused the male/female to switch off an on over time. It has been that way for my whole life. So I wrote it down.
http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?233392-DES-sons-and-Androgynous-males-gender-fluid-Let-s-talk&highlight=gender+fluid
Ah, I could not figure how to copy that link and paste it in. you will have to copy that to the address bar.

[desertrider]

Ceera, you gave me shivers with your description of the two sides of your personality. You may be in my head...is this common for anyone else out there?

That is a big part of what has put me on the TG spectrum. Not to mention the improved body image, etc.

I never conceived of having dysphoria before I started CD though, so it's possible I have gender euphoria instead =P

hugs

[Pat]

I'm reading all this with interest wondering what is the fine line between TG and TS, it seems most of you aren't fighting against it.

To me, I think one of the key differences is that TS folks on the whole back the binary gender concept, which makes sense because they need to get from one extreme to the other. Often TS people, using their experience to interpret the experience of others, think of the gender spectrum as just a period of confusion that truly TS people go through when they're still on the road to discovering they're TS. You'll see that expressed on this very forum in places. It's reasonable to interpret things based on your life experiences but at some point you have to accept other people's evaluation of their own situation or just accept that you don't understand.

So if you read the postings from TG/Crossresser people here when they self-identify they'll say "I'm a guy who..." or "I'm perfectly happy being a guy." a phrase I've never heard a TS say. I was reading an article just the other day by a doctor talking about his perspective on transgender children and he was saying when he hears a boy who says "I am a girl" instead of "I feel like a girl" or "I want to be a girl" he pays attention because he's never had one recant after that statement.

So I totally believe that TS folks know what's going on for themselves. And they have role models because they can point at the "opposite" sex and say, "I'm one of those. I need to act like one of those and look like one of those and have all the rights and privileges, duties and responsibilities of one of those." But TG/Crossdresser/Genderfluid/Genderqueer/in-betweener folks can't say "I am a" because there's no word to end that thought. At least not until we validate that the in-between exists and give it a name. And we don't have examples in our lives that we can look at as children and recognize ourselves at an early age. So sometimes it takes a long time to know who/what we are. And in that time we've been taught how to be male or female and we have had a lot of practice as "passing" as our assigned gender so when we do realize we're not exactly that we try to understand the other part of ourselves and perhaps we use bad analogies or say sexist/stereotypical things because we're trying to understand this elephant when we've never seen one. Our act ain't smooth and polished yet. 100 years from now I'm hoping we'll have the knowledge and infrastructure to smoothly say who we are and not confuse the cis-gendered nor the TS. All I can say is if you think it's confusing for you, I can promise it's moreso for us. We're not a thought experiment to ourselves, we have to live this life.

[becky77]

Jennie

Would you be satisfied with a mixed style or do you find its either all man or all woman?

I'm just wondering about your statement regarding recognition which I totally agree with.
But how can you present an inbetweener to the masses?

[Jazzy Jaz]

There are inbetweeners who present androgynous/mixed style and there are inbetweeners who sometimes present male and sometimes present female. As far as the masses, I think it would be valuable for the public to understand that some inbetweeners present androgynous and some present either or. Some present androgynous and either or. I think it's most important for people to understand that there is great diversity amoungst us period and we like the rest of humanity deserve respect and acceptance.

[Tina_gm]

I don't know if happy about being Transgender would always fit for me, but I do feel Transgender definitely does fit me. Although technically at least, Transgender is still considered a spectrum.

For me, yes, I feel I am an inbetweener. Those feelings do not change regardless of how I am dressed or whatever activity I may be doing.

There are times when it feels like I only identify as a woman. Then other times only as a male. Most often I do feel some sort of both.

When I do dress, it is merely just a comfortable expression. I am not uncomfortable dressed in male clothing. Neither to me ever feels wrong. There are times though when feeling strongly feminine the desire to present as such is quite strong.

I have always had feminine mannerisms. For me. It is not something I have ever had to learn or practice. It is all very natural to me. Growing up and being born male, I have only learned to suppress these, and I am not always successful at doing so. When I am feeling stronger on the feminine side, this becomes even harder.

What stops me from living full time or possibly transitioning are those times when I feel and enjoy the masculinity I do have. I think I would miss it at least. So, for me going that route is not the correct path. For me, my path is one of acceptance of who I am, and balance as much as I can. Compromise is not some do just for my wife or kids or society, but I do it for myself as well. I feel both genders and both needs to compromise for each other.

[Marcelle]

Hi all,

I thought I might be able to add my two cents here for discussion as at one time I identified "gender fluid" but we all know that kind of went south within a month. It is not that I thought "gender fluid" or any other middle ground on the TG spectrum did not exist, it was because the reality of being TS crashed down upon me once I was given latitude to express myself as a woman now and again in my professional life (work). Before I begin . . . I am going to tack a rider on to my last statement . . . I am not saying that A leads to B which leads to C and so on until you Z. Specifically gender fluid or other middle ground points don't necessarily lead to being TS. Sometimes A just leads to B or C :).

When I first gravitated to this forum a few years back I was completely and utterly confused, angry, resentful, bitter, and in a very dark place emotionally. Oh, I knew there was something buried deep and on this site I found kinship, others like me and I latched on to that like a drowning person latching on to a life preserver . . . I was CD and others were like me . . . I was a guy who like to wear women's clothes. I explored, read, went into therapy and as some here know, penned countless long winded social experiments, musings and whatnot on what it meant to be TG. Yup . . . TG. By that point I quickly realized that being TG was not a set in stone "thou shalt do this and that only" but a fluid moving target . . . watch the wheel folks, round and round she goes and where she'll stop, nobody knows :GD: By that time, I began to identify as having what many term as a desire to express my feminine self. That made sense as I was out and about in public, drinking lattes, eating lunch, window shopping and feeling good about it. So I settled as TG . . . again, it felt right and I was gladly holding on to that life preserver again as it was keeping me in check . . . emotionally.

However as things are never want to stay static . . . especially if you are feeling good about yourself . . . stupid life . . . the emotional balance slowly drained out of my latte sipping, window shopping days. Some strange force yanked the life preserver away and I began to sink again. So back to therapy and my therapist would never answer my question of "Who was I?" it was always a dodge and deflect of "Who do you think you are?". So I ruminated all along treading water and then a life preserver slowly slipped into view . . . "It wasn't about feeling like a woman it was about being a woman" . . . Wait a minute Sherlock, you can't be a woman because you are a guy . . . right? Why can't I be both, a male me and female me? Good question so let's explore with the therapist . . . response "Do you think that is possible?":facepalm: Seriously, why was I paying this person (I jest, she was great and doing what any good therapist should do . . . make you question yourself).

So I grabbed a hold of the life preserver "gender fluid" and began to take steps in my professional life to work some days as a woman and other days as a man. But I was still bobbing along on the high seas, life preserver in hand with no shore in sight. Being a woman at work felt great, normal, natural . . . authentic. Being a guy . . . not so much. When I was him, I could feel her behind my eyes and missed her. When I was her, nada from male me. I soon realized the only reason I was presenting male at work was because that was part of the original workplace accommodation . . . male some days, female other. Then . . . the big crash . . . there was no "him" it was always just "her". He was a façade, a hold over from what society forced on me . . . boy parts equal boy, not girl. I remember that day, I had gone into the study, coffee in hand and prepared to read this very forum. I took a sip of coffee and noticed my male uniform hanging the closet realizing that Monday I was going to have to wear it and then . . . I cried . . . cried . . . cried and when I thought I could stop, I cried again. My wife came down and was terrified . . . she asked if was okay and all I could respond with was "I'm a woman not a man" That day, he effectively died, I finally saw the shore, let go of my preserver, swam hard and struggled to shore.

Now what does this have to do with being "gender fluid" you may ask . . . bottle the genie Marcelle for goodness sake :raisedeyebrow:. For me I experienced all aspects of this wonderful spectrum of ours in an effort to lead me where I needed to be. Gender fluid was a real construct to me I truly felt I was both and not in some weird Sybill Dissociative Identity Disorder (formerly known as Multiple Personalities) kind of way where one personality is not aware of the other. I felt fully integrated in that they were the same person and each just needed to express themselves in different ways. We carry many identities with us in life and each takes on a different guise/aspect depending on the situation. Soldier me (work identity) is quite different from social me. So it is not a stretch to believe that one can have both genders and express them in different ways to varying degrees. You might be a guy 99.9% of the time but when you are a girl that .01% of the time, you see yourself as a woman and identify as such and this has nothing to do with going out, working as a woman . . . it is an internal sense of self. On the other hand you might split 50/50, 60/40 and you identify as each gender accordingly. Again, IMHO has nothing to do with "street cred" . . . it is about the individual and how they feel. Nobody can tell a person just because you don't live 24/7 as one gender you can't possibly identify as that gender . . . that would assume that person knows you better than you and that would be arrogant. However, IMHO where you cross the Rubicon WRT to the TG spectrum is when you land back on the binary (man/woman). If you are a man, identify as a man even when you are all frilly and frocked up, you are not fluid. If at times you truly feel like a woman when dressed (or not) but you can still feel "guy you" floating along like some disembodied spirit and you feel good about that . . . you are fluid in the sense you don't identify in the binary. When I swam ashore that day, I was no longer fluid I was static . . . a woman. However, until that time . . . I was in flux and very fluid. :)

Cheers

Marcelle

[heatherdress]

Katy - An interesting discussion. I think you identify crossdressing commonality for most under the "transgender" label. But I do think there are significant differences pertaining to needs, purpose and identity depending on where you are on the transgender spectrum. I also believe the behavior of crossdressing is probably OK to most of us and maybe most people, but the label of being a crossdresser is likely to be more troublesome and more negative.

I think all MTF crossdressers possess more than a simple drive to express a feminine look when transformed or they would not continue to crossdress. Their desire or need to continue to crossdress is probably part of their identity, as a manner of expressing purpose or reason as well as an outlet and a means to an end. I personally cannot identify feeling that crossdressing is driven by an ability to "yell at the world" because it is usually always a very private behavior, done alone, at home, or with the intent to be unnoticed or to "pass". I do feel that many needs are satisfied by dressing, regardless of the degree to which we dress and express ourselves. For some they may be primarily sexual needs, for others, maybe a vast array of physical, psychological and emotional needs, known and unknown, strong or subtle - but real. The accompanying feelings of freedom, naughtiness, fulfillment, excitement, joy, guilt, confusion, aloneness - are also shared by all of us, to varying degrees. I always enjoy dressing and feel happy and fulfilled.

[Pat]

Jennie

Would you be satisfied with a mixed style or do you find its either all man or all woman?

Mixed is what I'd say my normal state is these days. Most days I wear jeans and they're always "women's" jeans. My shirts are a mix from both sides of the aisle and I pick the one that makes me happy that day, not the one that's men's or women's. I always wear earrings, my nails (finger and toe) are always painted and when I leave the house I'm usually wearing some amount of jewelry. My eyebrows are waxed, the hair from the ears down -- I might be a little fuzzy in places for lack of effort on a given day but generally it's pretty unmistakable that it's been removed on purpose.

But when you say "satisfied"...? I would not be happy if there was a time I couldn't get totally femmed up with dress, wig and makeup because some days I need that. And I wouldn't be happy if I could never again dress "totally male" (allowing for the nails.)

How do I represent inbetweener to the masses? Both sides have to understand for that to happen. I'm afraid at the moment I represent "eccentric" to the masses because "oh, transgender" just isn't a natural thought to them at this point in history. One thing I have come to realize (and I'm probably repeating myself) is I don't actually want to "pass" any more. I don't want people to see Jennie in her best dress and think I'm a woman. I want them to think I'm a (hot) person who was probably born male but is presenting female (even though they don't have that concept.) I'm really hoping over time we can get to a point where people can say, "Oh, transgender" and not give it another thought just as they now say "oh, a woman" or "oh, a man." In that perfect world, my driver's license will have T in the gender box and if I use the ladies room when I'm in a dress and someone starts to freak I can show the nice officer my driver's license and he'll say, "Oh, well, it's OK then." ;)

[GretchenJ]

Dana44 You are very vocal on saying you are Genderfluid. As I understand it that means that your very identity swings from male to female?
But are you being honest with yourself? Is your gender truly fluid or do you just want to dress as a woman sometimes and at other times not?

I'm not saying being Gender fluid is a myth but so far I haven't seen an honest example other than Marcelle. Who now admits to being TS.

I'm genuinely intrigued and wish to learn but I fear a few people just can't be honest with themselves. My main confusion being that each time I ask why someone feels they are in the middle they inevitably talk about being feminine in a way that borders on stereotyping.

What I want to hear about is the internal dialogue, those feelings of being different and how it surfaces in a relationship and social interactions.
How does it come out in friendships etc.The clothes are meaningless when it comes to true Gender identity.
For example if you are closeted but out with friends how does your mixed gender surface, are your friends also mixed?

Hope you don't mind the questions but this is a great learning tool.

Let me try to put into words, how I feel, which answers your very good questions.

Like I posted earlier I consider myself Genderfluid and TG. My belief is that the difference between crossdressers and TG are that for crossdressers the clothes and the presentation are the beginning, middle and the end. The experience is solely external. Where TG comes into play is that the feeling is both internal and external, there are feelings and emotions that accompany the time enfemme time. The clothes are just a tool for the experience, I can feel like Gretchen without a stitch of female clothing on.

The difference between TG and TS, (again my view only) is that TG has no issue with there born with gender, it just varies the percentage they need to present as the other gender. So for me, it's 80/20 male, but any ratio that does not contain zero applies. TS detests there born with gender and can not survive without some degree of transition.

I consider my brain a Venn diagram, the intersection are my base tendencies that define me in both male and female. However, the outer corners are unique to my male and the female role, my therapist thinks that the female side is much larger than I currently thought.

[Genni]

Great thread, Katey!

I believe that I fall in the "happily transgender" category. I was raised as a male, and am comfortable with the bits I was born with. That said, I have always had a fascination with females and the differences between my own life, clothing, etc. and theirs. I also have a strong preference toward female friends. No one would describe me as macho, but am probably closer to that end of behavior than to the effeminate. My two daughters (one 20-something and one 30-something) tell me on occasion that I behave like "such a guy," although not when we are all getting mani-pedis together lol.

I have put some thought into what it would be like and how it would feel to be a woman, but primarily as a thought or empathetic exercise. I would not seriously consider transitioning in any sense. I would estimate I identify as 70% male, but the remaining 30% female part of me is very important!

I don't know the "correct" definition of transgender, but it seems reasonable that a person who chooses to express two different genders in their clothing, etc. is not best described as one of the binary genders and is thus "trans." I don't claim to understand it, or why it describes me, but it does -- and I'm ok with that.

[mechamoose]

I'm about as mixed (up) as you can get.

I live every day expressing both genders. I *am* both genders. I don't need to imagine what it would feel like, it is my daily existence.

I'm not Trans, I have no desire to change myself. I'm quite content with who I am.

Nobody should feel like a failure for not being 'pure'. You are who you are, and you have value. I don't care if all you do is slip on a dress when alone. You are YOU. That is admirable and valuable.

- MM

[Megan G]

Becky, when I wrote that part way back. I was likely in my male persona. Aka gender fluid is switching between male and female..

Dana,

In regards to what I quoted above from your earlier post. When Becky mentioned that what you wrote did not sound like something that would be said by someone that identifies as a woman or partly as a woman you mentioned that you were most likely in your "male persona".

I have seen this term used quite a bit on here by people that are both self identified CD's and gender fluid people like yourself.

So my question to you as a self identified gender fluid person, when you make this switch does your personality change as well? To me (and maybe this is the confusing part for me) is when you say "my male persona" or "my female persona" it sounds like two different people, especially when you add in that when you wrote something that you most likely would have been in your "male Persona". So that makes me think you would have written something different if you were in your female persona...

I am only curious and by no means is this trying to prove or disprove anything. Just looking to learn...

[DMichele]

Hi Katey,

I saw the thread earlier today and made a mental note to check it out later. There has been a lot of thought provoking sharing on your question. I will try to reflect on your question.

First, I am comfortable identifying as a transgender individual; and I am happy. I have put blinders on to block out the world’s opinion of what I should be, i.e. a ‘standard issue’ male, and as a result, I am able to get in touch with the real me, which is ~60% female to 40% male.

Coming to terms with my identity eliminated melancholy and even a passing suicide thought some 8 years ago. I do not ever want to return to those days. Accepting this side of me has enabled me to have more fun with family and at work. It also has given me more confidence when around siblings and work colleagues. (Interestingly, I have been wearing bras to work for some time and I thought the bras provided the confidence, but it really is my acceptance of being TG that provided the changes.)

Today, I am in a better place mentally due in part to this forum, the internet and personal reflection. I am happy where I am at in my life, but strive to expand my individuality. One of my favorite songs, Ray Stevens’ Everything is Beautiful (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0a45z_HG3WU), includes a line – everybody is beautiful in their own way that has always touched (and teary eyes today) . Unfortunately, because I lived the majority of my life according to traditional male expression expectations, I covered up my inner beauty. No more cover up for me, as I believe I am on higher ground today and a HAPPY TG!

[Dana44]

Megan, Well I would say that it is two aspects of the same person. Perhaps persona is the wrong word. We had discussions about that in the DES thread. But I must say that strangely I switch like no other and am unique. But the switch is a real male/fem interchange and as a male I do not put on a skirt or anything fem. But when I switch to fem I do feel comfortable as a female out and about and do feel that way. But they are different aspects of me. I see that no one understand it and it is hard to explain. But there are others like me out there and no one like me on this site. But some days I am male and others female. As I have stated it has been that way for my whole time on this earth and it took me half of a lifetime to figure it out. As I had that issue I was never comfortable in my skin. I would love to be one gender and not have that issue. So, I had to beat to my own drum my whole life. Take for example a type A male. He is comfortable in his skin. But my dealing with them I could see far farther than they did. I did not feel like them and knew I was different. And at strange times I would get this switch and felt so much different that I could not express it. I finally figured it out. If it took me half a lifetime it would be really hard to explain.

[mechamoose]

'Facsimile'

I know it wasn't your main point.

Nobody here is facsimile, a copy. We are all just who we are.

Some us are blessed and have total support, some are stuck in a DADT situation. NONE of us are a facsimile.

We all have very different living situations, each measured by what we can 'pass' on.

I respect you transitioners more than I can describe. I personally know members here who only wear girl clothing in privacy.

They are still sisters and are worthy of our support and respect.

Great that you are a GM and know you are a girl. Not all of us have evolved that far.

- MM

[Lorileah]

as usual, this type of discussion has degenerated into a who can pee higher on the tree match. Let's get this back on track and not about TS vs CD vs Horned frog ok? Read the OP, respond to the OP within the perimeters of the question asked.

[mechamoose]

Yes. M'am. I personally believe you crossed unneeded lines, M'am.

Deleting posts like that was a bad call.

I'm certain this will be deleted. Some will see it.

I'm inflammatory, but not without cause . Some of this stuff doesn't deserve the type space.

- MM