Electrolysis and HRT Question

[Sara Olivia]

I began electrolysis on my beard about a year ago and am now about 50 hrs into the process. Results are not what I had hoped for - my upper lip is only about half done and I've had a few hours on lower lip and chin so not much to show there either. I was of the understanding that 100 to 200 hrs of electrolysis should clear an average face. So I reasoned that at 50 hrs a year I could be nearing the end of the process after 4 years if it took the full 200 hrs to clear my face.
I am just in the process of going through my Hormone Readiness Assessment ( a requirement here in Canada before an appt with an endocrinologist can be arranged ). I am hoping that I can start hormones sometime before the end of the year. My question to you ladies is how long did it take you for your electrolysis to be completed and how long from the time that you started hormones until there were enough changes to start living fulltime as a woman? All input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks a lot.

[Lauri K]

Chelsea,

I can only offer what I know about my treatment here in the US, I started out with laser treatments, I now have four down and 2 to go before finishing up, only to be continued with a combination of electrolysis and possibly more laser where it can be applied in lieu of electrolysis.

That said I have been advised that 100 to 200 hours of electrolysis will likely still be necessary to complete the job.

Sounds like you and I are on parallel paths. Long road ahead of us, so enjoy it the ride.

Sorry I cannot offer any experiences on the hormones.

[JanePeterson]

100-200 may be a low estimate... I have seen other girls here mention 300-400+ and 4-5 years - I'm sure much depends on your density/age/skill of your electrolysist


This is hearsay as they call it - I'm only on my 5th or 5th session

[Vickie_CDTV]

(I am not technically a TS, but I am both a client and practitioner of electrolysis.)

The other problem is that the 100-200 hours often quoted is a very rough estimate, and depends on so many factors, especially both the density of the hair and how distorted it, as well as former methods of hair removal (and other factors as well.) If you are very unhappy, you could try another electrologist if there is one available near you (not sure where in Canada you are, but if you are in Ontario there are lots of great folks available there with experience with male facial hair.) Remember though, it will take at least a year for all the hair to cycle in once, so you won't see a huge improvement for at least a year (everyone takes a bit more or less for it all to cycle in.)

Upper lips take the longest by a long shot, and are usually the last area to be finished up. I have had mine fully cleared about 30 times and I still have hair on it, nowhere near as bad as it was, but it is only about 50% done. Granted, I have the beard from hell, one of the worst my electrologist has ever seen. Yours is probably not nearly as bad, but takes a lot of time, especially on the upper lip.

[Kalista Drake]

Hi Chelsea, good question. I think it's different for everyone regarding electrolysis. For some it may take up to 200 hours, but for others like me it took 2 hours a week for about 3 years, and then 2 hours a month for a year and now I have it done only an hour per month! So .... I don't know the math but that's a lot of hours!! And money!! Now I am at the point where I only need to shave - just a few hairs - once a month. And I will see my "Zapper lady" as I like to call her, in a couple of months, taking a short break from it for the winter. My zapping is almost done! She says just a few more visits. I am so happy to be at this stage!

About the other part of your question, I have been on HRT for 6 years now and I love the all the changes! It only took a few months to see and feel some results from the hormones. I would say... probably about 6-8 months into HRT I started to live fulltime as a woman. It doesn't take long at all. One thing I can tell you is to work on your voice! It has taken me 6 years to get here and I still am not completely thrilled with my voice. It's not too bad though. I pass everywhere I go so it's ok. but It did take a long time to get a halfway decent voice. If you need help with that, there are a ton of videos on Youtube to give you some pointers.

Good luck, hun. I hope I have answered your questions.

[I Am Paula]

I'm curious about your comment about the hormone readiness asses. In Canada a Dr. can prescribe on informed consent. Some ask for therapist letter, but readiness is determined by the Dr. or therapist, and in my case was one hour.
If you and your Dr. feel you are ready, you can walk out with a 'scrip the same day.

Any Dr. can refer you to an Endo any time, you don't have to wait for any amount of therapy. At your first appt. the Dr. Will tell you if any therapist/ letter is required.

I started full time a few weeks before my first Endo appointment. It's all about when YOU are ready.

Good luck with the hair removal. It's a bitch. Hang in there.

[Sara Olivia]

Thank you so much for that information Lauri. I know that just recently I was told by another lady in a ts support group that I have been attending, that she had also started with laser and that this was a permanent solution for her. I had always thought that hair removed by laser grew back and was not permanent. So I appear to have been misinformed there as it certainly worked well for her.

- - - Updated - - -

Hi Paula thanks for your comments. From what I have been told by several ladies here who are now post op is that I am required to get the Hormone Readiness Assessment from a therapist who is licensed to provide this standard assessment. I have already had a one hour session for this and am expected to have two more hours to go through a standard range of questions. The therapist will then write a report which I can then give to an endocrinologist to get an appointment. This is apparently how it works here. Unfortunately that is all I can tell you at this time because that is as far into the process that I am.

[Frances]

I did about 300 hours over 5 years. I went full time after 3 years or so. There was an overlap of electrolysis and living full-time.

[Sara Olivia]

Jane, Vicki and Kalista thank you so much for the thorough and thoughtful input. I really appreciate it and am encouraged at the news that the upper lip is the most difficult area of the face to clear. Perhaps there is hope for me yet. Thanks so much

[Eryn]

I've done 2 hours a week for over three years. The caveat is that as my face was cleared we moved on to other areas like the back of my neck, upper and lower back, buttocks, etc.

Electrolysis takes time. My electrologist worked all over my face so I didn't see a huge change at first. As time went on, things got sparser and sparser until now I can go weeks without attention. I probably have less facial hair then most GGs!

Don't let electrolysis be put off for anything! It takes the longest, but it also is instrumental to helping you live a normal life in your desired gender.

[PretzelGirl]

The timing of electrolysis and hormones relative to going full time is entirely up to you. You will find a broad range of answers if you ask everyone.

But I do believe that electrolysis can easily go on and on. One of the problems is that it takes a lot of hours for most. The other is that as you get far along, you have to spread appointments out so that you actually get far enough into a growth cycle to have something to zap. Also, what are is last to have hair to remove is probably another variable area. My upper lip only has a small amount of hairs when I go in, but my lower lip to my chin is by far the heavier area.

[I Am Paula]

Chelsea Chantelle- I have no doubt that the 'rules' change from Dr. to Dr., and from place to place. I arranged my own Endo appt. and showed up completely female. The Dr. asked how long I had been presenting female, and I said since 1979 (part time-often). Hormones were kind of a slam dunk at that point. He asked me to see his recommended therapist for one hour, who after about 40 minutes told me she would call my Dr. with a thumbs up. I then asked her to make a note that as of that day I was starting my RLE, and her response was 'Honey, you finished RLE a long time ago.'
The Church St. Medical Centre, in downtown Toronto, long an advocate of informed consent, will prescribe on a first visit. My endo here in Guelph is the go to guy for the nieghbouring trans community, and firmly believes hormones are proven therapy, and those who need them, usually need them quickly. Adult trans folk usually wait until there is a crisis, or near crisis before seeing a professional.
Now, on the other hand, I know girls who had had to jump thru hoops for months, and practically beg their Endo for a scrip. They have endured a year or more of therapy. Most of these girls seemed to be suffering from all kinds of other mental/emotional issues, so I'm certain this was for the better. One girl was full time one week, wanted to be a platypus the next, and thought she was the Messiah the next. Others have just had doubts that were serious enough to explore.
My opinion is that every doctor, and every therapist has to look at the individual, and decide.
Also, if you are going the Camh route, it will be much slower. They dot their I's, and cross their T's in triplicate, and the result...well...it gets you there, via the slowest possible route. Get your Dr. to put you on the Camh SRS waiting list, but do everything else privately. Which is the way even Camh is heading. Hormones are very cheap.
Once again, good luck on this incredible journey. It sounds like those taking care of you are doing just fine.

[Jennifer-GWN]

Love hate relationship with electro. Hard to count the number of hours I have in. Get as much done before hrt as you can. Take advantage of laser if your hair permits as electro is a long haul. I'm still on ~4+ hours a week when I'm in town. Most of my hair was white so no laser however we are starting to see this mystery dark ones starting to appear suddenly which is giving me cause to think a few laser sessions might be an option.

Either way... Get this crap off my face.

On the hrt front I'd be interested where in Canada you are where they are making you do the hoop jump?

Have fun... Jennifer

[Georgette_USA]

My partner and I started HRT and electrolysis at the same time. She had no real body hair so good, I had very little but the legs. We only had small amounts of facial hair, mostly chin and upper lip. My upper lip was definitely the worst. Sinuses would back up and I would start sneezing like crazy. Being crafty she had bought a used machine. We were able to work on each other. She eventually went to a school in Atlanta GA, so she could get certified. Saved a small fortune that way. Plus she was able to make extra money working on a few other TSs at the time.

[MissDanielle]

I'm starting HRT and laser this week. I have a groupon for six sessions and we'll see what that takes care of before looking at electro options.

[Eryn]

...Being crafty she had bought a used machine. We were able to work on each other. She eventually went to a school in Atlanta GA, so she could get certified. Saved a small fortune that way. Plus she was able to make extra money working on a few other TSs at the time.

I've always wondered if any of us took this approach! Certainly a cost-effective solution to the problem.

Used machines are out there, and for reasonable prices as electrologists move up to newer/fancier models. If I had found someone to do this with it would have saved me the price of a nice car! I'd definitely want to get some serious training first!

[Angela Campbell]

I'm at about 170 hrs and not far from being done, but I know some who needed up to 500 hrs. Varies with the individual. 50 hours isn't much time. At best only about 1/4 into it.

I began with weekly sessions of around 5 hrs and they slowly tapered off. Once I was at 2 hrs to clear the face I moved to every 2 weeks, then finally moved to monthly or longer. So far at almost 3 years.

my electrolysis tech recommended to be on hormones as soon as possible. I recommend to begin as soon as you can because it takes a long time.

[LeaP]

I haven't asked lately, but I think i'm about at 140 hours. All on my face. I stopped shaving 2-3 months ago, but still see a lot of growth in between sessions. (Even that, however, is pretty much invisible at social distances.) I go for 2 hour sessions weekly, 100% flash (thermolysis). My tech has broached going to 1 hour per week, but I think I would prefer a few more hours first. 50 hours is very little. I'm expecting at least 160-170 hours to get my skin to what I would like it to be between sessions. And then an hour a week for who knows how long to keep it that way. My tech described my facial hair at the start as average coverage, slightly less than average density.

Judge your progress by how much of your face is cleared in each session.

[Angela Campbell]

After about my 3rd session i have had my entire face cleared every session no matter how long it takes.

[LeaP]

Ok ... per hour, then.

[Vickie_CDTV]

The hair that remains toward the end can be either new or returning hair growth (coming back from laser, or dormant follicles stimulated to start growing hair), but are usually "original" hair that happens to be the most difficult to treat. That remaining hair tends to be thin and/or distorted or possibly at a difficult angle, which is why there is that long running short treatment time period towards the end. It takes much longer when you have to start resorting to non-thermolysis modalities, different techniques using thermolysis (multiple insertions/multiple pulses), or have to contort your hands and arms to get those at difficult angles. You can get incredibly high hair/insertion counts when one starts, toward the end it drops off quite a bit even as the total treatment time stays the same.

[Georgette_USA]

Depending on your age, facial hair is not just on men. My mother starting in her 50s-60s had some on her chin, but she just plucked or a little shave. Plus coming from a Mediterranean background knew gals that had dark upper lip hair. I found I had the same, so did the same. But this year I said what the hell, and had two 1/2 hour sessions to get rid of that. Took about a month between to let them grow out.

[Badtranny]

Wait what? You've had zero estrogen in your body for 20 years but you have so little facial hair that it takes a month for the hairs to get long enough, and you've cleared them in an hour of electrolysis?

You are definitely unique.

[Eryn]

After about my 3rd session i have had my entire face cleared every session no matter how long it takes.

This is excellent, but not typical. It took me a lot of 2-hour sessions to achieve a full facial clearing, and that was only the start of an even longer period of follicular whack-a-mole.

[Georgette_USA]

Melissa
I am really not sure if you are asking questions or just making statements. Never said I have zero estrogen, have NEVER had any blood tests for estrogen levels. Only recently had test for testosterone. Those results were 39 ng/dL. Which with what I have read online, female range is 15-70. I think the male range is 300-1000.

I had all facial hair removed about 38-39 years ago. I never had a lot or heavy facial hair before, maybe my Testosterone levels have always been low. Never had much of a physical male libido.

Yes it has been 30 years with NO HRT. She took two 1/2 hour sessions. First was to git rid of the heavy/coarse/dark ones, only took a week or two for those to grow out first. I let it go for a month, and she did another 1/2 hour to get the odd ones, and the upper lip ones. Now after another month or so, I can see about a dozen hairs or so. May have to trim and see if more develop.

Not sure of the unique, is that good or bad, as my partner was about the same.

These are some of the reasons I am looking for other long time, over 35 years, Post-Op TSs to compare notes with.

[Badtranny]

Melissa
I am really not sure if you are asking questions or just making statements. .

Mostly just making statements. But here's a question; If you weren't taking estrogen, then how did you have estrogen?

Anyhoo, your comments so far have been contrary to my (limited) experience and I'm frankly suspicious of pretty much everyone on the internet who claims to be trans so, ...I make comments.

As someone who is also full time and still not finished with electrolysis, I can't imagine letting my face grow out for a month for a session. I don't have much left, but there's no way in hell I'm walking around with a few dozen hairs on my face for more than a couple of days. Scheduling sessions as a full timer is a challenge and I can basically only get it timed right a couple of times a year now, and I've only been full time since 2012.

I'm not saying you're being dishonest, only that your some of your comments seem out of place.

There was another gal here who purported to have transitioned better than 20 years ago, but she turned out to be a fraud. Just out of curiosity, what were your feelings on Stonewall?

[Georgette_USA]

I took estrogen/progesterone for 10 years total, Pre and Post SRS. I have said I have NO idea of my current or past levels of estrogen.

Sorry my comments have been contrary to your experience. And having suspicions of things said on the Internet can be good.

I am retired so I have NO problems scheduling times. As for the few hairs, plucking and or shaving every once in awhile was no big deal. NO shadow and no close face to face contact with anyone.

As for feelings on Stonewall, I never really followed very closely at the time. What I have read and contrary to a recent movie, it was the CD/Drag/ and some that may have identified as what we call TG now that started the battle. More of a battle for Gay and CD rights of the time. Most of the Gay people I knew did not really like us early TS types. The Lesbian community was more supportive.

I am not going to play my honesty, as in a show me yours and I will show you mine. How much first hand experience of TS of the mid 70s do you have to compare against. I suppose there are some on here that can validate yours. My partner and I left all the TG/TS stuff behind in 1983. I have only come out to these sites for information since she died in 2014.

Sorry that someone played a fraud on you. Not sure why someone would perpetrate such a fraud. I guess it has made you into a suspicious/cynical type. I may be cynical about life itself, but glad that I don't feel suspicious of others. I feel I have no obligation to show you any documents. And the only people that I show mine to are Lesbians that I have chatted with recently.

- - - Updated - - -

Against my better judgement, here are some of my oldest photos I posted elsewhere.
http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?236842-Inspired-by-Judy-Somthing

[Sara Olivia]

Thank you all for the thoughtful and helpful input. What you have told me really helps.

[karenpayneoregon]

I had a very smart electrologist who made arrangements with a dentist. Right before work on my upper lip, I went to that dentist, paid twenty-five dollars for a complete numbing of my upper lip.

There were sessions I’d fall asleep and she used the highest setting possible for my upper-lip. I truly believe without this my upper lip would had been painful and would had taken longer to finish.

Currently I have another electrologist whom is doing my under arm area and every once in a while she will see a hair on my lip (which I don’t see) and will hit it, of course it’s at the bottom of my nose so even with such a light hair it hurts.

I lost count on how many hours were spent on facial hair removal but guessing it was around 200 to 300 hours.

My first electrologist retired but stay in touch and my current electrologist did my genital and is also a good friend but was not always the case, when she first started working on me she was a tad cold but after announcing my plans for surgery things went from cold to were we are now friends.