A More Masculine Persona?

[Andar]

I'm deeply sorry if this is an odd thing to ask in Male to Female Crossdressing. It seems kind of awkward bringing the subject up when the conversations of the forum are about expressing femininity. Pondering the opposite direction maybe a bit improper.

I have found many of you using female names to further bring to life a female persona. I haven't picked a female name myself as there are so many cool ones to choose from, but it got me thinking about the strange case of my username here - "Andar." Its decidedly masculine and not my real name.
I've only just recently started with this stuff as a result of some soul searching and introspection. Long before this, I felt really awful about not being "manly" enough and set about creating an even more masculine persona to try and compensate or fake it. This was basically late middle school and early high school if you'd like some context. I was pretty much going the opposite direction I needed to go, but lessons were learned.
His name was Andar, of course. It was a slight twist of my real name, Andrew. This persona was to be more ... assertive, confident, and stoic. Of course, those are hard to fake and this persona was kind of a failure. Assertiveness made me feel like a jerk, confidence was not found, and stoicism leads to hard times.
Andar then became something of a personal joke to myself as I tried to snap out of it and laugh it off. Mostly in strategy games like Crusader Kings II. I'll name my monarch "Andar the Conquerer" and joke to my friends with the character in similar ways. It was personally endearing and become the username I use for most things. I absent mindedly used it for signing up here.
That said, he kind of had a bit of a resurgence when I got out of High School and started work at a lumber yard. I believed I needed to keep a manly demeanor at such a stereotypically masculine place.
Eventually I snapped out of this with the crazy revelation that Andar made me feel stupid. A real, "what the hell am I doing" moment. As I resumed back into regular self (a perpetual state of cluelessness) I came to the realization that the guys around me didn't really care so much that I wasn't as masculine as they were, as long as I did not express femininity. Obviously less than ideal, but I at least didn't have to pretend anymore. I just had to subdue. I mean, it's not like a lumber yard is the place to get pretty for anyway, unless you like your clothes covered in sweat and sawdust ... but hey, whatever you're into. And again, I only just now began on this road, so subduing feminine feelings was something of a life story until now.

So, have you felt a perceived need to create a masculine persona in addition perhaps to the feminine one? Is that something you enjoy, or is it like me where I eventually had to just give up?
If not, maybe now you can appreciate the sort of irony that is using the name "Andar" as a name here. Some consolation.

[mechamoose]

Manly is relative, just ask my wife.

6'2", 245#, built like a truck. I *rock* a skirt. She asks me why I have not worn 'this' or 'that' in a while.

Painted talons, every day. I wear pretty stuff more than she does.

'Manly' is relative.

We have had some side topics about GGs latching on to us trans people. GGs *LIKE* pretty males. We are not just the average 'jock' male. We have better taste and sensibilities. More like *them*.

In nature, males are the ones with the pretty plumage. The girls have all the camouflage.

Why do we need to be different than that?

- MM

[Teresa]

Andar,
You don't say your age or if a partner is involved so it's harder to understand the need to show how manly you are and who to.

I will say from my own experience that I've burned myself out trying to either prove I'm a man or bury Teresa, I finally came out to my wife in my forties which felt like a millstone lifted off my shoulders. OK so my wife now knew but it turned out all she wanted was he man she married, and a father to the children, being the man was then much harder.
Now in my sixties I'm finally out to the world so now it's a balancing act between the male/ female side but at least now if I still show signs of nail polish or all the eye makeup hasn't washed off I'm not going to given a hard time.
I will add that no one at the social group tries to change their voice or act over girly they are just being themselves and enjoying their CDing with like minded company.

[Alice Torn]

Life will bring some tasks, and situations, where manly strength, and resolve, will come in very handy! I struggled with my manhood, all my life, lacked confidence, was put down all my life by two older twin brothers, a resentful father, and picked on all through school. Part of me tries to be a better man, despite being a 61 yo bachelor, and the other part likes to be a nice looking, older lady. No female voice though. I try! I do love to go fishing, ride bicycles, shoot basketball, played other sports as an adult, like to fix things with the car at times. Most of my time is in guy mode, and helping my difficult family of origin, who i would never tell about my lady side. I live in guy mode 98% of my time. I know some of you think that is crazy, but the 2% is lady, though i think about dressing much of the time.

[Allisa]

Sounds like denial to me, I know of what I speak. To accept that you have a part of you, that at the time, is not normal in your head so we put on a false front or we try to enhance our masculinity so as not to raise any suspicions, then one day we come to see the folly in our ways and accept our true selves. Read my bottom tag line and maybe it will clarify my response.Good luck in your journey of self discovery.

[Helen_Highwater]

I've not consciously ever tried to create a more manly persona. I do what I take to be manly things. I couldn't even begin to count the tons of cement, sand , gravel, timber, stone, paving I've used over the years doing projects around the home. I'm the one out of the circle of friends who gets asked if I've got a bit of time just to help fix/install/change something around their houses. I'm a decent sportsman and enjoy a few beers with the boys. I'm planning to do the UK's longest zip wire in the near future. Been white water rafting, climbed, abseiled I'm not afraid to go into the wilder mountainous parts of the countryside alone and get off the beaten track, perhaps not seeing a soul all day. Fearless, no I just like my own company once in a while.

In saying that, I know I'm not a man's man in the strictest meaning of the word. However I arrived at the position where I was content with who I was and that had nothing to do with my CD'ing. My male and femme sides while not totally separate exist somewhat in parallel, without one compensating for the other. I discovered a long time ago, you can't be something you're not.

[Laurana]

My persona doesn't change with my clothes. I'm still 100% the same.

[OCCarly]

I'm small for a guy, 5'7", and when I was young, yes there was a lot of overcompensation -- muscle cars, bicycle racing, surfing. I gave up cycling and surfing when I decided I didn't like the idea of knee surgery, and took up golf and gardening.

Nowadays when I have to go out and be that guy, he is a much gentler guy than he used to be, and when I don't, I am fully the sweet girl I always was deep inside.

[Alice Torn]

Helen Highwater, we are similar. well said. I can relate. Been hardworking blue collar blood, sweat and tears all my life, but with the lady within, also.

[Lena]

Yeah, I was just thinking about this tonight. I don't pass as a woman and I don't fully pass as a guy either.

Growing up, I always had effeminate traits, actions, voice and build. I was chastised by friends and family. I remember my parents always telling me to walk like a man instead of a "sissy." During middle school, I was singing with the girls in choir. My parents and family hated it. They had a girl name for me that they called me often when they thought I wasn't being masculine enough.

As it went on, I changed the way I walked, talked etc so I could pass as a guy. I joined the army and had to "fit in" with the guys. I was so thin they I had to get a waiver to join the army for being underweight.

I'm old and married now but I feel like I've been trying to pass as one thing or another all my life.

Even now that I've accepted myself, I feel like I'm still trying to pass at work. It's almost like I have to over compensate to hide what I do at home. I grow beards to cover my face and wear baggy clothes to hide my body.

With age and hormone issues, I've changed in other physical ways such as gyno and weight changes. I've lost muscle. My skin is softer and I think my face has changed a little also. Others may not notice but I think these changes are obvious and need to be camouflaged.

Of course, I'm not doing hrt to transition but since I kinda like the changes, I go out of my way to hide it.

So, one way or another, I've always been working on passing.

[Tracii G]

Its pretty common for guys with gender dysphoria or ones that battle with gender issues to over compensate and try to act more manly.
Lots of people here have spoken about this in their own lives.
So you are not alone in the way you feel.

[UNDERDRESSER]

I never tried to "overcompensate" but I often felt left out of the groups. I felt wimpy and ineffectual. However, since I've been wearing skirts pretty much full time, and feeling more comfortable showing a softer, "dressy" side, I have strangely enough been feeling more masculine. By that, I mean I am more assertive and confident, more outgoing, much more willing to approach people. Part of that is the job, which pretty much forces me to be that way, but did it ever take a jump after I took the plunge and went on the sales floor in a skirt! I guess I no longer feel the need to apologise for who I am. Don't like it dude? Your problem.

[JeanTG]

Its pretty common for guys with gender dysphoria or ones that battle with gender issues to over compensate and try to act more manly.

Certainly has been the case for me.

[Andar]

However, since I've been wearing skirts pretty much full time, and feeling more comfortable showing a softer, "dressy" side, I have strangely enough been feeling more masculine.

I can see that. Being more yourself gives a greater degree of confidence allowing for one to feel as a stronger person. Perhaps?
I think someone a little bit ago described "manning up" in order to go public. I tried finding the thread to be sure and give credit, but did not - true story. Manning up and girling out just seems like such a beautiful concept.


Andar,
You don't say your age or if a partner is involved so it's harder to understand the need to show how manly you are and who to.

I'm 21, which from what I hear is a great age for me to be asking questions.
And there's no partner involved. Never had a girlfriend. I'd like a partner, maybe, but haven't really tried to find anybody. In fact I've had to to decline advances a couple times. The way I hear things, that's something of a gender reversal in itself. Though, I can't believe guys saying "no" is as uncommon as it's made out.
So yeah, who am I trying to appear manly to? I'm actually fairly open to my friends about masculinity not feeling right. My family must be at least conscious. Nothing about CDing, but in general. The answer is likely myself and society I guess.

The more I've thought about it this past day, the more a particular point came to mind. My Aunt, who might as well be my second mother, will occasionally take pride in having helped raise me by proclaiming I'm a "good man." Its supposed to be a compliment but I always feel a personal disconnect when I hear it. The complement in the phrase though is good. Man is just an extra. That extra is where the disconnect comes from. I dont believe Im trans, my body feels alright at the end of the day. I'd probably get the same disconnect if it were "good woman." Kind of frustrating that I can't just be a "good person."
But taken as it is, "good man" isn't the same as saying manly man. Its saying good. That she thinks Im a quality person. Manly man would be a higher quantity of masculine personality traits, but doesn't give any qualitative measure to them. I dont have to be a manly man to be a good one. I should have been more focused on being a good man, instead of being a good man.

As for what "good" means, it would clearly depend on perspective. Kindness, respectfulness, and at least attempted understanding. As to that, I'd like to just say thanks to everyone here. It's inspiring to see and feel solidarity within your stories. Immeasurably helpful, you Diamonds.

[sometimes_miss]

After having spent my childhood trying to learn how to be a girl, I had to spend my early 20's learning how to present to the world, and most importantly, women, how to present as a regular guy. That done, next I had to learn how to present as an alpha male in order to attract women. So yeah, each time, I had to 'create' the illusion of what I wanted people to see me as. Worked pretty good, too, but it feels like I'm acting a part in a play. After a while, it comes almost completely naturally; it's kind of like riding a bike; though when you're doing it, you're always slightly aware that you're doing it. Surprisingly, arthritis helped; it gave me a slight 'swagger' to my gait naturally that I didn't have to think about; but it also forever eliminated any female style walking, as well as causing pain in my knees when wearing heels. Oh well, have to take the bad with the good.

[Nikkilovesdresses]

Hi Andar/Andrew or perhaps Ann Drew.

Firstly welcome- glad you found the forum.

When I read your original post I thought of you as being at least 30, maybe 40 or more. It read to me as if you were looking back at a long field of experience and speaking with quite mature insight and honesty. So I was astonished to read that you are only 21.

You seem well educated, so I'm puzzled- will you be entering 3rd-level education? None of my business I know.

You've thought a lot about who you are, and I'm sure you're aware that at 21 it would be remarkable if you'd come to any very meaningful conclusions. I don't mean to patronise you, it's just that most of us at 21 were still struggling mightily to find the answers you seek. At 54 I feel I have some small inkling, but that's a pretty recent thing. Every time I say or do something really dumb I think, 'Well I won't be doing that in 10 years' time...' and then 10 years later I have cause to say it again.

One small crumb of advice I can offer you is that I regret not embracing crossdressing more when I was young. I did experiment, but I was chicken- and it was myself I was hiding from, not others. I was still trying to get approval from society for blah-blah-blah- you know what I mean. I'm not suggesting you should out yourself- but if you can make opportunities to travel, it can be very liberating. I did all my public dressing in foreign countries, well away from home and judgement. Travelling has many other benefits of course- it's like instant hindsight. I'm talking about being away for months, being exposed to all sorts of new stuff, being self-reliant, opening yourself up to possibilities. To boldly go and all that.

Fitting in, learning to do manly things, compromising your inner desires- these are the fodder of everyman. Don't fear or avoid or suppress your feminine side, rather find a path which will allow her to flourish, and integrate her into your total personality. You weren't born to work in a lumberyard any more than Lady Gaga was born to be...whatever she is: you were born to grow and to travel an arc, and you were blessed with free choice.

It's a big world. Go out and get muddy.

Hugs, Nikki

[Tracii G]

No reason both genders in you can't live in harmony.
Learn to harness the good things about both sides of you and build from there.

[Andar]

Hi Andar/Andrew or perhaps Ann Drew.

You seem well educated, so I'm puzzled- will you be entering 3rd-level education? None of my business I know.

One small crumb of advice I can offer you is that I regret not embracing crossdressing more when I was young. I did experiment, but I was chicken- and it was myself I was hiding from, not others. I was still trying to get approval from society for blah-blah-blah- you know what I mean. I'm not suggesting you should out yourself- but if you can make opportunities to travel, it can be very liberating.


I pretty much lit up inside when I read "Ann Drew." Ah that's a great one.

Assuming 3rd level education is college, I was academically dismissed during my first semester. Its a situation I dont much like talking about, but I try to move forward. Somewhat of a good thing because I was in way over my head to think I'd be able to afford the school I was going to in the first place. "Take the bad with the good" as was said.

Im actually moving from New York to Florida. I could use that opportunity for some liberating dives, but it would require coming out to a buddy who is road tripping with me. Im also moving in with him, so it might be a good time to get his thoughts anyway.

[Tina_gm]

Hi. I was once way in deep with the masculine feminine contrast of myself. Although in my case, my username sort of is because of this. My masculinity is not faked. It is more that I de emphasize my femininity. I love dumb analogies, and with this thread I have come up with yet another. The gender equalizer. As in a stereo equalizer.... Bass being masculine, treble being feminine. What I have always done to the best of my ability for many years was to take the bass/masculinity and move it all the way up, and vice versa for the treble/feminine.

I was of course hoping that if I kept the feminine repressed low enough for long enough, it would go away entirely, and the masculinity would stay strong. Well, by nature, my gender "equalizer' has at least as much treble as it does bass. It was a never ending fight to raise the bass and lower the treble. Another thing too, raising the bass up higher than its natural setting makes it come out not sounding as good. As for the masculinity I have, when I leave the natural settings alone, or at least not mess with them so much, I am sooo much more at peace. I literally am more comfortable in my everyday guy presentation than before.... Because I am not forcing it, and allowing my femininity to breath.

[Wanttodress]

At this stage of my life, being 27 and just getting out of the military, it is a pretty big transition and it coincides with my strong desire to dress up with great frequency. At the same time, there are things I want to do in my life that I would need to be quite masculine for. I'm glad to see that some of you figured it out.

[Alice Torn]

Gendermutt, very interesting analogy, well said!