he died!

[arbon]

Awkward moments.
Someone called me last night who I had not talked with in many year asking for (old name). I got confused, stuck on what to say, so I just said that person was dead without offering any details. Then he asked who I was, I said his widow.

it was at least the third time over the years I have told someone that he was dead rather than tell the truth.

A few years ago happened to cross paths with a guy (an old friend of my dads) at a function and he thought I was the sister of that guy he once knew (dads son) , he had not seen me in a very long time. It was really weird having a conversation with him about my dad and supposed brother and explaining his death. He could not figure out how he had not met me before.

maybe I am crazy.

[Lorileah]

I've told sales people that when they call

[I Am Paula]

I've killed my former self a few times. Sometimes I get interesting looks after that admission.

[LeaP]

You did not give him any facts as to your physical and legal transition. Truth is another thing entirely, involving logic and perspective relative to the facts, among other things. The judgment as to whether anyone told the truth or not is just that - specifically including the judgment of truthfulness based on whether all facts have been given or not.

There are circumstances in life which demand delivering a more or less complete inventory of facts, as in a legal procedure, but even there anyone with the dimmest perspective can tell you that judgment is another thing entirely. Even with the recitation of events and circumstances themselves, however, which are material, for example? Who is entitled to what kind of information and why? Whose judgment, meaning whose ethics, principles, and mores, rules when views clash?

Theresa, to the degree you are conflicted over this, the conflict seems to arise from not meeting what you see as others' needs, what you perceive as what they would want to know, rather than standing on your own perspective. Your response to these callers is a sort that rightfully defines a deception or lie in some circumstances, but by no mean in all. One perspective, by the way, is that you responded factually using a figurative expression. That, my friend, is a perfectly socially acceptable response to someone inquiring about something that is none of their business, whether it relates to anything trans or even simply your desire not to respond.

A response that Billy-Bob indeed still lives here and is already on the telephone with the caller has its own truth implications that proceed from judgements concerning your physical continuity, identity, and more. To whose response standard and frame of reference should you be held and why? The caller's? Some vague "common sense" cultural framework? Etiquette (see paragraph above)? Finally, even if you should go down the road of the so-called facts, you should know that they are infinitely wide and infinitely deep AND that some are not subject to separate evaluation as to their conformance with reality anyway - like identity itself.

Take yourself off the hook. You don't need to be there. Besides, Billy-Bob is dead anyway.

[PretzelGirl]

I can see where they are awkward. I have had a couple of those instances with sales calls where it was inadvertent. I wanted to infer "he" had moved and would say something like "he is no longer with us". Then the condolences come and I have to back out. If you aren't seeing any future with the person, it isn't a big deal.

[Badtranny]

At this point, if someone calls asking for 'dead name', they don't know me and I certainly don't know them well enough to give a damn anyway.

He died, he moved, haven't seen him, whatever. It doesn't matter.

[Rianna Humble]

Theresa, you haven't lied "he" is no longer alive. Also because you shared so much of your life with him there is a sense in which you can be considered his widow.


I wanted to infer "he" had moved and would say something like "he is no longer with us". Then the condolences come and I have to back out.

When the condolences come, rather than backing out, you could always reply something like "Actually, it was a joyful relief! He had been suffering for so long..."

[Angela Campbell]

I just say "he's gone" let them fill in what they want.

[LeaP]

When the condolences come, rather than backing out, you could always reply something like "Actually, it was a joyful relief! He had been suffering for so long..."

OMG that's funny! It also opens all kinds of possibilities as to the cause of death:

1) He disappeared one day and never came back. He was declared dead by the court.

2) Assisted suicide.

3) Passed away on the operating table.

4) Done in by a female stalker.

5) His throat was cut in Mexico. (Theresa will understand this.)

6) "All I can say is he's dead to me."

...

[Angela Campbell]

Sometimes I also use

there's no one by that name here. ..

[I Am Paula]

LeaP, Thanks, I'm going to use all of those.
On a sadder note- The woman at the service desk at my local Kia motors deadnamed me over, and over. I corrected her too many times for it to be a mistake. I complained, and she was fired for allegedly saying I'm a man, and will always be a man. Good riddance.

[Teresa]

Arbon,
I'm not sure I agree with telling people that part of you is dead, it can more than upset other people finding out it's not true, it really is an unpleasant experience when you believe someone to be dread when they aren't.

In slightly different circumstances a family friend told me a local retailer had recently died, I was waiting in line in his shop, hoping to have a consoling word with his wife when he walked down the stairs at the back of his shop as large as life !

[LeaP]

... it can more than upset other people ...

Case in point.

[Kris Avery]

I suppose it depends if their inquiry is related to me making my living.
In that case, I answer to any name they want.

[PretzelGirl]

Rianna and Lea, love it! So-and-so was suffering, so he moved on....

Teresa, it is food for thought. My reference is to sales calls. Also, I don't think Theresa is going to be coming down any stairs in her former presentation. So it probably depends on who you are saying it to.

[Krisi]

I would think saying "He's not here anymore." or "You have a wrong number." would be better than saying he died. The part about being dead could just cause a bunch of questions and it's a lie that you will have to remember. You can seldom just tell one lie, you have to lie again to support the first one.

[LeaP]

Okay, Krisi - follow that logic. You're condemning one response (by calling it a lie) while suggesting another that is presumably as much of a lie as the first, as you appear to be taking a very black and white interpretation of what constitutes a lie. From that point of view, saying that he is not there is no different than he is dead. Your explanation as to why one version is better is wrapped up in a web of potential consequences. The fact is that there is no way to know what kind of answer will lead to what kind of follow up (or consequences). The caller could be in law-enforcement. Or someone calling to say that you've just won a lottery. Or an unknown child that was adopted out looking for their father. Or someone who finally tracked Billy-Bob down, so they thought, to finally avenge that slight back in high school.

Here's the deal. A random caller has no right to any particular frame of reference in regards to the answer they get. It's completely immaterial what kind of dismissive response is given to end the call. And Theresa is no under no obligation whatsoever to maintain any sort of consistency in any future exchange, either. That holds whether the answer that "he" is dead, will be back in two years, three days, and one hour, or was abducted by aliens. Should a future exchange take place, one in which Theresa decides to share a few more facts, if the other person should ask about that comment that he was dead, the only type of response required is something like "I did say that, didn't I!" ... If any response at all.

[arbon]

It was not really a big deal, I don't care to renew old friendships at this point. It just surprised me considering how much time has gone by that it is still something that can happen, and a little shook by it. May not be the last time either, there are still old friends out there who live away from me that could potentially try to find me. It does still actually happen at work with clients or vendors that have not been around in a long time - that is easier though just say he is not here any more what can I help you with in those situations which have become very rare.

I was kinda feeling sad about it though, about him. He had this whole different life, that I have all those (his) memories from. I can't think of him as the same person as me though, only as someone else., which is really weird to think about, and unsettling in a way. Its like my ex still keeps photos of old me around, wedding photos and such, I look at them but don't see me but someone else who really is gone for good. He was very real to other people.

[flatlander_48]

"But did he ever return?
No he never returned and his fate is still unlearned
He may ride forever 'neath the streets of Boston
He's the man who never returned"

DeeAnn

[Bria]

I don't know about riding 'neath the streets of Boston, I was thinking more like the Ghost Rider in the Sky. But thanks for reminding me of one of my favorite songs from my college days, DeeAnn.

Hugs, Bria