Gender Therapy answer validated again

[Heidi Stevens]

When I was starting gender therapy last year, a question the therapist asked me was "what things make you think you're really female?" I gave several examples of what I had observed over my lifeime that I did that a male wouldn't do. One of these happened this last Sunday and just confirmed to me that I may look Steve right now, but Heidi is my driving life force.

My wife and I were invited to a lunch at the house of one of her fellow church members. Six other couples and a guest speaker were also invited to share an after service meal. I am not a member, so I only knew one other person there, a female member. The meal discussion was open and lively while we ate lunch. After dessert, the mixed crowd began to drift over time into a guys group and a ladies group to continue talking. Guess where I wound up? Still at the table I ate at, joining in on the conversation on how some neck wraps and jewelry were made by our hostess! I was even told by one of the other ladies that she would move so I could get out of my seat and join the guys. I smiled and said said I was fine and found all this interesting. The guys, none of which I knew, never came over to ask if I wanted to join them.

What happened here is one thing I've noticed over the years, in a group of men and women, as things start separating to groups, I wind up with the ladies. I find the conversation much more interesting. And I'm not doing it on purpose! I try the "guy" group for a while, but there I am back with the women.

So once again, with out thinking about it, I wind up being drawn to the ladies group. And it felt natural to be there. Have any of you ever noticed that you drift to the ladies group in any mixed company gatherings? When I got home and thought about it later, it just confirmed what I told the therapist: this is one reason I know I am Heidi.

[JanePeterson]

I have frequently looked up and realized I was in the "wrong" group my whole life also

[pamela7]

yes Heidi, i find the same in my life. Not only that, since I've come out myself, some of my male friends have looked st themselves and one has recently stated that they feel a woman inside!

"Things you do that a male would not do?" It is s nice question but I'd reckon most of our CD community would prefer the female company - worth a survey? I'm not sure that in itself is a criterion on its own. When I attend the local T event I find myself drawn to talking to the few ladies present, and not so interested in conversing with the straight CDs. Do you?

The therapist's question only goes to your mind : "think" : also "what things make you FEEL/KNOW you're really female?" opens up to a wider evidence pool

[Heidi Stevens]

Pamela, I have been to only one event where there was a large gathering of both Transgendered and straight CDs present. (That will change in two weeks).
I found myself grouping with both camps at this lone convention. I felt comfortable with both groups. The ones I had befriended the most while at this meeting also had the highest percentage of GGs (wives, girlfriends) with them. It wasn't until you asked me to analyze my behavior around other TGs that I realize I did it with out thinking about what group to be with.
What I was trying to get a response to was: did any of you notice that you were with the women more often than not. And had you noticed you were the only genetic male hanging out with the women when guy groups were also available?

[Kaitlyn Michele]

i never experienced this at all..perhaps i was trying to buy into my maleness...perhaps socially i'm basically male oriented(tomboy)....i'm sure lots of it is learned...one thing in my neighboorhood growing up there were NO GIRLS>..NONE!!! within 2 blocks of my house....it was all guy, all football, all hockey all day....
looking back i took comfort in the sameness and the safety of my little group of friends....even tho all the while i had my secret plot to "turn into a girl"

one experience i did have many times was feeling very disconnected with the guy cd's that i started hanging out with..

when men and women are together or i'm with couples, i have to make an effort to NOT focus on the whole "hang with the guys"... i know in one case i got the wife pretty pissed off and i basically had to say out loud "hey i'm not trying to steal your husband...we just like the same movies!!!".....

hey maybe i'm just the type of gal that likes the male attention!!!!! LOL...

in the end I'd consider all data and who you hang out with is certainly data but i don't think its super important or meaningful especially if you are more cd oriented
i'd be much more focused on quiet thoughtful consideration of your quality of life and how your gender is impacting it...and enjoying hanging out with the gals is one small consideration to consider but not much more...

[pamela7]

What I was trying to get a response to was: did any of you notice that you were with the women more often than not. And had you noticed you were the only genetic male hanging out with the women when guy groups were also available?

Yes, and yes. For example, when I worked in Paris I ended up lunching with the secretaries once a week - just me and 6-7 of them - all female naturally it's France - I loved it!!!

[Teresa]

Heidi,
Mixed groups can prove difficult to slot into sometimes.
My brother in law invited several people to a Sunday lunch at his home, he's a farmer so he invited some farming friends as well, I have helped on the family farm over the years so I know enough to try and mix with the conversation. As the day wore on and a few drinks later my input was being ignored by the male group so I gently tried to ease into the female group, my sister in law knows about my CDing, so when I tried to add a comment to the conversation I was frozen out my her and my wife. I can usually talk about most subjects but was getting slightly cheesed off by the situation, I'm not sure if it was all down to my CDing but as both my brother in laws know about my CDing I felt very isolated by both groups.
I felt like going dressed next time if we are invited again at least they'll know which group I belong to, that's if there is a next time because I told my wife that I wouldn't be treated like that again.

[JeanTG]

This has happened to me. I always find being with the ladies more interesting. I'm not into pro sports, guns, and most of the stuff guys are interested in talking about though I do have a couple of close male friends. I went to lunch once with a supplier, who happened to be three youngish women (mid-20s to early 40s), and it ended up being a "girls' lunch". They treated me just like one of them. I wasn't CDing at the time and was in full drab, but somehow they seemed to "sense" that I was one of them. They talked about pretty intimate girl stuff just as if I was one of them. I was completely and utterly flattered! It was perhaps the time in recent years where I felt the most feminine. Proving for me a least that my femininity is between the ears and not just what I wear. I also often surprise myself adopting feminine mannerisms and postures without realizing it.

[Megan G]

What I was trying to get a response to was: did any of you notice that you were with the women more often than not. And had you noticed you were the only genetic male hanging out with the women when guy groups were also available?

It really depended on the social situation, sometimes yes, sometimes no



i'd be much more focused on quiet thoughtful consideration of your quality of life and how your gender is impacting it....

I have to echo Kaitlyn on this, you should really be judging how bad your GD is (if this is something you suffer from) and how it affects your life. Not what social circles you prefer to be in. You can still be male but prefer the company of women, I have a couple of male friends that are just like that.

[Georgette_USA]

I have a similar background to Kaitlyn. Growing up 3 brothers, no girls near my age around, some older mostly younger. So yes I played many boy type games. My mother would keep watch on me, so very little girl play time. When she would visit or go help others outside our neighborhood she would bring me. Think she didn't trust me to stay out of "trouble". If they had a girl close to my age I was happy.

In our much larger extended family before and after dinner we would break into two groups. The card game players mostly the men. The women would sit around and talk, if wasn't playing cards I would sit with them.

When in the US Navy it was all guys, so that was that, except when I started to live off base. After the military, I started to go to these CD parties, there were NO TG support groups back then. Didn't have much in common with them, mostly older. These were good as the others leaning toward TS could meet and do outside activities. Work was mostly guys, so I would sometimes do things right after work.

When I finally went to a Pysch for my own reasons it was different. Can't remember now what was asked, but did find a letter he wrote for the surgery centers. I had to visit as a guy and as a woman for these. He mentioned as a guy, I was fidgety and unsure of myself, as a woman very much the opposite and so comfortable as such.

It didn't take me long to realize who I really was. So I just jumped in and went all in. I didn't have much invested as a guy, so NO reason to put it off. 35-40 years later do not regret for a second MY decision.

I know many TGs/TSs now and see they have all kinds of struggles. They are going to therapists, which help them to figure this all out. Plus these TG groups help with all the questions and general support.

[Heidi Stevens]

Megan & Kaitlyn, as far as my GD goes, I've not had any problems since starting HRT last March. And I don't think my dysphoria had anything causing me to float towards one group or another when I had big time conflicts. I continue to present as a male to the rest of the world to keep my wife happy. I'm happy right now as well. So when things happened on Sunday, I just had to observe that I still tend to wind up with the ladies, discussing girly things. I understand why I do it now. I was wondering if during my GD days this was a "clue" to my true nature. I thought it was, so I got therapy and HRT.
I was also curious to see if others had noticed the float to female groups.

[Marcelle]

Hi Heidi,

I really can't say this has happened to me. I grew up in what amounted to all female extended family as I was the only male offspring on that side of the family. So basically I socialized girl at an early age as my playmates were my sisters and female cousins. However I did have two very manly man uncles who initiated me in the way of boys and all things stereotypically guy (hockey - Canadian eh, hunting, fishing, cars, etc.). When I started school, I socialized with girls because it was what I knew but drifted to the boys when it became obvious that playing skip was not a guy thing to do. However, in my home life I still socialized with my sisters and female cousins until I got older and drifted to all things guy. Joined the military very young (17) and gravitated to the Combat Arms (all men then) and continue to socialize male. In mixed groups I was comfortable with both men and women and just gravitated from group to group which continued into my adult life. Even now that I have transitioned, I am just as comfortable in male groups as I am in female groups so long as I have a common understanding of the subject on the table.

Cheers

Marcelle

[rocval2001]

Hi Heidi - I get it - I will talk to male groups but I never really feel like I fit in. There is some stress involved in those situations. I am perfectly comfortable talking with the ladies. When I do that I get the "well your a man you don't understand" comment - and think to myself - if you only knew.

Hugs
Valarie

[S. Lisa Smith]

I hang with the girls!! Always have.

[DebbieL]

I had to be FORCED to play with boys in elementary school. And when I tried to play with boys, I usually got so severely beaten that by the time I got home to take my bath, the bruises had developed into something that looked almost like a black and blue shirt and pants. When I quit Cub Scouts (I wanted to wear the uniform), shortly after my parents watched a couple of boys beating me with baseball bats while other boys and parents cheered them on, I joined 4H club, and did leather-craft with 4 other girls. My underground network of girl friends grew, and many girls started becoming close friends. My teacher still forced me to play with boys, but after I had my spine crushed and couldn't breath for 4 minutes, the teacher and gym teacher told me it was OK if I just too a net and chase butterflies.

During my first marriage, when Leslie and I would go to parties with other couples, I'd be in the kitchen helping the other women with the cooking and clean-up, we'd talk about food, diets, babies, and men. Leslie would go out and hang out with the other guys and talk about hunting, fishing, sports, and girls (including me).

[Lauri K]

In the theme of things here I can relate to never fitting in either, I always have stuck close to the other ladies at parties, clubs, work, etc.

Just never really ever gave it much thought I suppose, just always figured that guys did not want me around them. But now it's later in life and I still hang out with the girls and or gravitate towards them in social settings.

Just another BIG indicator of how we are the way we are and many of us have been that way long before we even knew it, but it supports Heidi and others notions that we are definitely not male thinking beings mentally.

For me it would be wrong to try to hang out with the guys knowing that I really have nothing in common with them other than a penis between my legs.

[MsVal]

I am a late onset transgender woman. During the early years of my journey I wasn't sure why I was anxious and tried to figure out why.

It was during this time that I was contracted to replace a woman in what coincidentally was a six woman group in the corner of the office. (Chick central) I fit right in. We had a great rapport. We'd chat about all sorts of things, but always from a woman's perspective. I had casual conversations with the guys too, but felt uneasy if the conversation drifted away from soft issues like families. I couldn't care less about their hunting exploits, their favorite sports celebrities, or their boats. When the conversation became sexist I would find an excuse and walk away. Funny - it didn't bother me when the women were sexist.

That experience contributed greatly to my confusion and my desire to find out why I felt that way.

Best wishes
MsVal