I got "Sir'd"

[Sometimes Steffi]

The first couple of times I went to Keystone, I had a real crash going back to boy mode after almost 5 days as a girl.

After that, I came up with a "soft landing" plan. Part of that plan includes driving home dressed as a girl, and shopping on the way home.

Sunday, I was much more girly than usual as I was wearing a skirt and pantihose, rather than jeans and a T shirt. I know that I don't pass, but I am "girl sized" (5'9", 150#, size 14). I thought I looked pretty cute.

Even so, i was still "Sir'd" by an SA.

Does anyone have any good come-back to that, which is not overly offensive.

I was thinking just saying, "I think you mean mam, not sir"

Or maybe giving her a "Thank you sir" as an indication that I'm not happy being isgendered.

[Tracii G]

Here is what I did and I will use it again next time if a lady sirs me in girl mode.
" Thanks man see you at the bowling alley on Sat"

[Robin414]

LOL, A couple great comebacks Steffi and Ttacii! 😉

[ShelbyDawn]

Why do you need a good comeback?
You admit you don't pass.
Chances are, the SA was not aware of your expected protocol.

If you just let it go, there is no stress and no conflict. Just a random response by someone you may never see again.
That SA owns their actions, not you. It is your choice to be offended or not.

My dad was fond of saying that most conflict is caused by someones actions not meeting our expectations.
We have no control over their actions. We have full control over our expectations.

Or, as 'the wise man' once said... "Never credit malice with the work of ignorance."

[Jenniferathome]

The question is, do you believe it was just a slip or was it intended to hurt you?

I was out a few months ago, and an elderly lady usher said to another usher, "He, I mean she, needs..." She didn't men anything by it but she saw me as the man that I am and her brain took over. Now she caught herself, but I am certain she meant no offense.

[ShelbyDawn]

If you really feel you need a response, take the time to educate her about cross-dressing and that, while men who dress may not pass, it would make our day and probably create return business for her, if she were to just acknowledge the effort and say ma'am when she encounters us.

[Tracii G]

It really does depend on the situation at the time and if she was being snarky.
If your feelings get hurt too easily by comments like this then you need grow thicker skin.

[Robin414]

Good point Tracii! I'm only about 18 months old now (since becoming consumed by this crazy pink fog 😉 ) but I find negative comments actually invigorate me...thicker skin...yes...sharper spear...absolutely!

[josie_S]

well i think it sucks...i understand needing thicker skin, etc but it is rude even if the SA intended to be so or not. I got pulled over once for a busted tail light and the officer, even after seeing my license, told me to "be safe, miss" and that small act of kindness has stayed with me. is it too much to be kind to people?

[Eryn]

"Snappy Comebacks" are amusing in Mad Magazine, but they will yield us nothing in real life.

One misgendering? Let it slide. The person is probably beating themselves up inside for their slip and hoping that you didn't notice.

Several misgenderings from the same person? It's time to privately and gently tell them "I prefer to be referred to as "Miss." or "Ma'am."

Pointedly rude misgendering? Time to walk away and talk to the manager.

Remember, our goal is to win hearts and minds. We don't do that by being sarcastic or counterattacking. We do it by being really nice people even when people slip up.

I'm 6'2" and not exactly the most passable person in the world. I get sirred now and then. Even my friends have done it. Sometimes their subconscious takes over and sends words to their mouths before their brain can stop them. I take it as a sign that they are comfortable with me. I also find that the more I am comfortable with myself the less I get misgendered. Confidence does have an influence on those people I interact with.

I realize that there are some of us who are deeply hurt by being misgendered. I do feel for them, but they are setting themselves a very high wire, one from which the slightest slip hurts.

[Barbara Jo]

I think the issue is that some people do know what to call a person who is evidently male but dressed as a female.

I have known gay drag queens who were offended if someone thought of them as a female. They view themselves as all male who are just pretending to be a female in a "campy" way.

So, perhaps the guy was confused and just said what he thought might be correct... no knowing any better.

[donnalee]

The part that I don't understand is the necessity for gendering at all in everyday conversation. How is "May I help you?" improved by the addition of Sir, Ma'am or Miss? I always felt it was a way of distancing oneself from whoever you were dealing with and never cared for it.

An example:
A cop stops you for what he considers a stupid or careless traffic infraction. "License and registration, Sir." Now you know he doesn't think highly of you, so I always felt he was substituting "Sir" for "A**hole" while satisfying requirements for polite treatment of the public. "License and registration, A**hole!"

When I was doing retail it always seemed unnecessary and prone to misinterpretation, so I never used it and I fail to see any advantage in doing so, particularly if there is any possible room for doubt. I think businesses should instruct their employees in this regard as it would be a win-win for all concerned.

[docrobbysherry]

I can never pass and prefer Shelby's tack. I get called sir a lot. I say, "Trans prefer to be called mam when we're dressed this way."

When an SA does call me mam, I thank her/him for their thotfulness!:battingeyelashes:

[Lauri K]

I suppose I try look it on a case by case basis, but I must say I have grown tired of the mis gendering by SA / Cashiers in general.

I think for one SA's need to get their eye's examined and thier attitudes adjusted in order to successfully greet a diverse public that they service. Education and training are essential, many are not trained and others that are trained have just decided that they are going to be rude no matter what because they don't want to be there in the first place.

If I am misgendered when I am dressed up and looking what I call pretty good, I will pause and look over shoulder and then turn back around to them and say excuse me were you talking to me, or someone else.........at that point they get that deer in the headlights look on their face and figure out that they have screwed up and will usually comeback with a quick apology and use the correct pronoun.

Truly it can be a painful and traumatic thing to be misgendered, try to educate and not start a riot is my motto.

It is sad that so many SA's do this misuse of pronouns, and as a community we dont' give enough credit to the ones that do use the correct pronouns, so give you SA's a big smile when they get it right, because after all we don't dress up to be Sir'ed.

[Krisi]

" How is "May I help you?" improved by the addition of Sir, Ma'am or Miss? "

It's a sign of respect. It's what sales people, restaurant servers and anyone else dealing with the public is taught to do. It's what parents (we would hope) teach their children to do.

If you dress as a woman and people call you "sir", it's a sign that you don't pass very well and should work on your presentation. It's your problem, not theirs.

As for a snappy comeback, that's not to help anything. You failed at passing, you learned a lesson, let it be and move on with your day.

[looking_good]

I noticed recently how often I got Sir from SA's while in male mode, and neither Sir nor Ma'am or Miss while dressed. I don't pass when dressed, so the omission seems a pretty reasonable response to a blended presentation. I agree with Krisi that the takeaway is room to improve my presentation.

[Allisa]

Maybe I'm the only one here but what pronoun I'm referred to as, makes no never mind. Yes being Maam'ed, miss and others does feel good, but I am so happy as myself and my expression that it does not ruin my day. After all I am a man, I like to think that my presentation is that of a female in both exterior and demeanor for all the world to see, but if someone feels the need to point that out than so be it, I'm not hiding who I am just expressing it. I rarely get referred to as sir also when expressing my male self. Most of the time my interactions with others have resulted in just a plain old "Thank-you", or "have a nice day", or something along those lines. Is it because they aren't sure or just reacting to my friendly, happy smile. Any type of confrontation is a win for them and only fuels their prejudices. As I say "if you own it ,it can not be used against you".

[JamieG]

I think Eryn has the right approach. A snappy comeback should only be used if the person is obviously doing it to needle you. Otherwise, you are being rude for no good reason. If she was otherwise nice and helpful, you might consider "You probably don't get many crossdressers and other trans-people here, so I'm sure this must be confusing for you. Unless the person has indicated otherwise, it's usually best to use pronouns and terms that match the gender they are presenting as." Just be sure to be pleasant about it.

[STACY B]

Don't EVEN WASTE your Time,, If you have the for thought and a quick wit Bang them Back like Tracy said, Other than that Blow um off and Bounce,, Life's wayyy to short to give those loser anymore of your time.

[Eryn]

The part that I don't understand is the necessity for gendering at all in everyday conversation..... I think businesses should instruct their employees in this regard as it would be a win-win for all concerned.

OTOH, I hate it when salespeople speak in an obviously scripted manner. I'd rather have them speak naturally and risk an occasional slip.
Part of feminine interaction is acknowledgement of their shared gender. The waitress at a favorite restaurant makes a point of referring to the group as "ladies"when it is exclusively female. When the group is mixed she uses a neutral term. When she uses the term "ladies" it is with a sense of being part of a special group to which she also belongs. I'd hate for her to lose the ability to express this because she is forced to use homogenized language.

[Alice Torn]

Best to just let it sled, give them the benefit of the doubt, be nice and respectful to them, even if they are rude. That will make them think, "hey that is a nice person." On the humorous side, having been in the Air Force, i might say, "Sir?" Oh, I'm not an officer. Or, "Carry on.Thank you."

[I Am Paula]

If you were wearing a skirt, then she's just being rude. Say 'That's ma'am' and never shop there again.

[docrobbysherry]

OTOH, I hate it when salespeople speak in an obviously scripted manner. I'd rather have them speak naturally and risk an occasional slip.-------------------------------
I agree, Eryn. Coming back from Mary's T girl club, we always stop at a fast food drive thru for my hungry T buddy, at about 1 AM. I'm the one the SA sees at the drive up window. He's gotten used to seeing me and doesn't raise his eyebrows anymore. As we r driving away he always says, "Have a nice day!" :brolleyes:

[Barbara Jo]

Has it occurred to anyone just to write an anonymous letter to the store's manager (even to the store's corporate address) saying that you are a woman but the SA called sir and you are very offended.?
If enough of us did that, maybe they will get the message.

BTW, just last Tuesday i was totally en femme (which included a midi skirt, etc ) and went into the local " Burlington Coat factory" store.
I was just looking at some dresses, skirts and lingerie., etc..
Now, while I was dressed very feminine, the only make up I wore was very light application of foundation.
Although at 69 years old, my hair is now completely grey, my facial hair is still mostly black. (why can't it be the other way around? )
So, anything more than a cursory look would have revealed that I was a male.

I should add that I wore no wig as I'm am letting my hair grow and it is now rather feminine looking.

Anyway, one point, a female sales associate doing some work near by, came up to me smiling, asking, "Is there anything special that you are looking for mam"?
Needless to say, I was very pleased. :)

[Jennifer_Ph]

Why do you need a good comeback?
You admit you don't pass.
Chances are, the SA was not aware of your expected protocol.

If you just let it go, there is no stress and no conflict. Just a random response by someone you may never see again.
That SA owns their actions, not you. It is your choice to be offended or not.

My dad was fond of saying that most conflict is caused by someones actions not meeting our expectations.
We have no control over their actions. We have full control over our expectations.

Or, as 'the wise man' once said... "Never credit malice with the work of ignorance."

Absolutely perfect. You nailed it!

[Eryn]

If you were wearing a skirt, then she's just being rude. Say 'That's ma'am' and never shop there again.

What is the goal here? To create hostilities and then self-ban oneself from a particular store? If so, Paula's approach is perfect.

Also, that salesperson will remember the encounter. I wouldn't want to be the next TG person who walks in.

It is better to educate than remonstrate!

[Krisi]

Part of the original post:


I was wearing a skirt and pantihose, rather than jeans and a T shirt. I know that I don't pass, but I am "girl sized" (5'9", 150#, size 13). I thought I looked pretty cute.

Even so, i was still "Sir'd" by an SA.

What does this tell us? Not enough to make an informed response. Wig? Boobs and bra? Feminine blouse? Jewelry? Women's shoes? Clean shaven and at least beard cover and possibly lipstick?

How do we expect members of the public to address us as females when we don't look convincing as females (we don't pass)? They can't read our minds and it's unfair to expect them to or to complain to management when they get it wrong.

The OP admits he doesn't pass so I don't see what the issue is here.

[Giselle(Oshawa)]

i know how you feel Steffi i was in Toronto fully dressed and made up and walked into a Sephora Store in a huge downtown mall.
i had asked a young woman working there to help me with my lipstick which i had screwed up, she was adorable and did a mini
makeover for me so i bought some blush when i went to the counter to pay the male cashier said "will that be all sir" i didn't say
anything but i thought you SOB hang in there Steffie as we all know "the wheels of justice turn ever so slowly"

[pamela7]

i don't think a 1% minority can take offense that a 99% majority does not understand its customs, <insert relevant wrong word/title used in genuine error>.

[Beverley Sims]

I like both of Erin's comments, it is certainly mush easer to let it slide unless you are agressive and do want to get in a cat fight.

[suzanne]

I don't see anything wrong with gently asking someone to address you as a woman, and assume they made an honest mistake at guessing your gender. But really, isn't the most important part of the process the manner in which you are treated by the SA'S, rather than the pronouns they use? You mentioned that you weren't fully passable, so why would you expect to be "ma'am" to them? Especially if they may have previously met someone like me, for example. Because these days, it's unlikely that you're the only crossdresser they have ever seen and the water in Gender Lake is getting muddier all the time.

I don't pass and never will. Given my age and physical size, my attempt at passing would look like something of a train wreck. So I don't try. I put on my skirt and go shopping as I am and just own it. I make no pretence of trying to be anything more than a guy who enjoys female clothing and wants to look as tasteful as he can. Nearly all of the SA'S, even the ones who have never met me but only heard of me from their co-workers, know me by my male name because I've never used anything else. The only things I ask of them is to treat me with respect and to give me honest opinions of the clothes I try on. For my part, I return their respect and honesty. But really, that's exactly the same relationship, no more and no less, that all customers and sales staff should have. Getting your gender right on first guess is a nice bonus, but it's pretty minor compared with the other issues.

[Amanda M]

I NEVER get "Sirred. Maybe it's because I'm 6'4", built like a brick bomb shelter and have muscles on my teeth. No, in truth though, go with Erin. Life is to short to get your panties in a wedge/knickers in a twist over a pronoun. Remember, you always catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.

[ZO e]

I have not been sir'd but the SA did not look to shore .one time a young girl said .You go girl.

[Ressie]

My dad was fond of saying that most conflict is caused by someones actions not meeting our expectations.
We have no control over their actions. We have full control over our expectations.

Or, as 'the wise man' once said... "Never credit malice with the work of ignorance."

I like this ShelbyDawn. My belief is that people get upset for two reasons. Both are about expectations. Either something totally unexpected happens (surprise), or one was expecting something and didn't get it. Remembering this as we go about doesn't seem to happen, but people would be much happier if they didn't expect certain things (in general) from others.

Next on the list is about resentment. You'll be happier if you stop resenting others. It isn't easy, but why let someone live rent free in your head?

[Tracii G]

Its going to happen regardless even if you are all dolled up and really have your girl on that day or an androgynous mix.
Main thing is be nice and let it go SA's do make mistakes but if they do it in a rude manner on purpose then be the better person, you can let them know how rude they have been.
Just a look may do it.
Starting a big commotion over it isn't a good idea.

[ReineD]

The best comeback is, "I prefer to be addressed as 'Ma'am'". Had I been the SA, I would have apologized and used "Ma'am" in the next sentence.

You can't blame people for addressing you as the gender they perceive you are. We all live our entire lives making assumptions about whether someone is male or female based on how they look, since the vast majority of people do identify with the gender associated with their birth-sex and none of us have the ability to know what anyone feels internally. This is why TSs go to great lengths to alter their physical appearance. They no longer wish to be perceived as male. And wearing a skirt is not sufficient to infer gender-identity, since there are lots of male-identified CDers who also wear skirts.

I made a mistake along similar lines when I was a SA many moons ago. A woman who looked like she was pregnant was shopping for clothes in the store I worked in. I asked when the baby was due. She responded icily that she was not pregnant. I apologized and made no further reference to it.

[Sometimes Steffi]

I felt like I needed to jump back in here. I think most of us would agree that most of us don't pass. I'm just being honest.

But, I was "all in" as a girl. Black floral skirt (above the knee), with pink flowers, pantihose, black boots, pink top, bra with C cup forms, bracelet, earrings, full face makeup (including foundation, blush, powder, eye shadow, eye liner, mascara, false eye lashes, pastel pink lipstick), sparkling blue nail polish on natural nails much longer than the typical dude, shoulder length wig, crossbody bag. I can't think of anything that I was missing.

I wasn't insulted. I'm not that thin skinned. I was just wondering if there was anything I could say in a light way to let the SA know that trans women would like to be mam'd or at least not sir'd. I wouldn't write a letter or attack the SA. I was just looking for a cute little reminder that the appropriate response would have been mam.

Ladies, don't all go overboard about this. It was really no big deal. I just thought it was an appropriate "teaching moment".

[ReineD]

But, I was "all in" as a girl. ... I was just wondering if there was anything I could say in a light way to let the SA know that trans women would like to be mam'd or at least not sir'd.

In that case then next time, I think it would be best to simply smile and say, "I prefer to be addressed as 'Ma'am' when I am presenting as a woman". You might help this SA address the next person who presents this way properly. :)

[PaulaQ]

I would simply say "it's ma'am, not sir, if you please." In fact this is what I used to say when I was misgendered.

My opinion is that it isn't reasonable to blame a trans person for not passing. People ought to treat you with respect even if you can't avail yourself of expensive medical treatments. Some of won't pass even if we get everything possible within the state of the art done.

It is entirely possible to avoid using gendered pronouns in many situations. For example:

Is "may I help you, sir?" really way more polite than "may I help you, please?" The latter one risks offending no one. Another approach is to ask what pronoun someone prefers, although this will really risk offending some people. (Misgendering happens to some cis women too, and some of them also find it very hurtful.)

I only ever got annoyed at being misgendered if the person doing it was making it a point to be rude. "Hello SIR. May I help you SIR? I'd be glad to get that for you, SIR" - basically where they emphasized the pronoun and used it every chance they could, being pretty deliberate about it.

[Lorileah]

i don't think a 1% minority can take offense that a 99% majority does not understand its customs, <insert relevant wrong word/title used in genuine error>.
why not? Just because you are 1% doesn't make you less human

[Shelly Preston]

I recently had a similar issue.

I contacted the company who apologised to me. They also offered a gesture of goodwill which I have refused as I don't think it was required.
I asked that they remind their staff, how hurtful it could be to some members of our community, who cant develop a think skin.

We have to remember its not always about those who are out in the community, but those who may follow in our footsteps.

[donnalee]

I NEVER get "Sirred. Maybe it's because I'm 6'4", built like a brick bomb shelter and have muscles on my teeth. No, in truth though, go with Erin. Life is to short to get your panties in a wedge/knickers in a twist over a pronoun. Remember, you always catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.
I never quite understood why someone would want a large quantity of flies, unless they were a bullfrog.
@Krisi:
Sir or Ma'am can be used as a sign of respect and also as a sign of disrespect. It depends on the intent of the user. Losing one's temper, however, is just what the disrespectful person desires; if you're going to cut them to ribbons, do it verbally, do it calmly, and do it well.

[Launa]

Getting Sir'd has to be handled on a case by case analysis because sometimes the general public will slip up. I've had it happen to me a few times and usually I could tell when people meant no ill - will. Other times when it happens I want to see if they have a bigger problem or not.

And folks I am really ashamed to say I have screwed up on this once before. A while back there was a conversation going on in our house about Fallon Fox who is the TS lady that was trying out for the UFC. Anyway Joe Rogan and a bunch of other idiots were on TV saying in interviews so many derogatory remarks about Fallon and how she couldn't, shouldn't be allowed to compete. Blah, blah, blah on and on these guys went with their rants. I was having a conversation in the house at the time and I said the words he, she, before, after, transitioning, it. My wife then said you called her "it" and I stopped with a gaze and said, oh no how did that happen?

[ReineD]

why not? Just because you are 1% doesn't make you less human

It's not less than human, Lori. The SA's tone of voice was not rude? It's simply not knowing. Likely the SA has no clue that men who present as women wish to be addressed as such. It's obvious to all of us but not to a lot of people.

A similar potential to be insulting happens among GGs when deciding on whether to address them as Ma'am or Miss, or in French, Madame or Mademoiselle. Younger women are addressed as Mademoiselle because it is assumed they are single, and older women as Madame because it is assumed they are married. So an older, single woman should really be addressed as Miss, but how would any SA know to do this, since assuming that an older woman is not married is potentially insulting the other way. And so people go with the rule of majority.

There are people who believe that men would be insulted by being called Ma'am (even if they are dressed), because these SAs frame it the only way they know, which is how their fathers, brothers, husbands, etc. would feel if called "Ma'am". Likely this SA, out of sheer lack of exposure took it that it was none of her business how Steffi chooses to present and the SA was not going to pass judgment by addressing a birth male as anything other than Sir.

There is a reason I know that such people exist. My SO and I knew one. This was a very open minded GG (she had no ill thoughts about my SO presenting as a woman), who insisted on using "he" pronouns when we were all together with my SO dressed. I asked her privately one day why she did this and she took it that my SO was fundamentally a male who enjoyed presenting as a woman occasionally and so would be insulted by being called a woman. This was her honest-to-goodness belief and she was surprised when I told her that my SO preferred being addressed as the gender matching the presentation. So she stopped using male pronouns around my SO when my SO was dressed, but she didn't know until she was told.

[Eryn]

...This was a very open minded GG (she had no ill thoughts about my SO presenting as a woman), who insisted on using "he" pronouns when we were all together with my SO dressed. I asked her privately one day why she did this and she took it that my SO was fundamentally a male who enjoyed presenting as a woman occasionally and so would be insulted by being called a woman. This was her honest-to-goodness belief...

:yt: I think that this tendency is particularly strong in males of certain cultures. Women are considered so lowly in social rank in those cultures that the men cannot conceive of a man wanting to stoop that low. He therefore calls anyone with the least masculine characteristics "sir" in hopes of avoiding insult.

We, of course, interpret it diffrently, which is why I tend to be forgiving of minor mistakes.

[ReineD]

Erin, what you say maybe makes sense, except I think it goes deeper than misoginy. I can say with all confidence that my adult sons for example do not believe that women are inferior. Most men I know do not believe women are inferior. My sons are feminists in every sense of the word in that they wholly believe that women and men are equal on all levels (I raised my boys right. :)) Yet they would cringe if someone mistook them for women. I think it's more about pride in one's sex. Come to think of it, if someone mistook me for a man I wouldn't like it either and this is true because my brain stem wants me to be recognized as a woman, not because I believe men to be inferior. It's the ancient, biological wiring at play here.

[heatherdress]

If you look like a male, regardless of the attire you are wearing, you should expect to be called "sir" by sales associates, hotel front desk personnel, restaurant staff, and most other people you come into contact with in service-connected businesses. They are trained to be respectful and most patrons expect to be referred to by some title. If it is important to be called "ma'am", then you should politely let them know what you prefer to be called. Confrontation would probably make you look foolish and accomplish little, unless you have reason to believe the words to be an intentional slight or insult.

[Jessica S]

why not? Just because you are 1% doesn't make you less human

Nor does it make you more than special human. Humans make mistakes. It is in our nature. If it wasn't a mistake then it could of been a number of things. One the SA was not use to dealing with a crossdresser. Two the SA could of been think "oh that's a guy dressed as a women, so in the back of their mind the sir slipped out. Whatever the reason, even if the SA was trying to be offensive/bigoted the best we could do is to not come down to their level and just be courteous and maybe it will make it better for the next crossdressers the SA encounters. I don't see and issue if the OP was offended to just say " yes you can help me, but when I am dressed like this could you please refer to me as female." Saying it nicely will go along way instead of a quick comeback to put the SA on their heels and probably become more offensive.

[willnotwill]

It happens even with genetic women. I have a pretty good female phone voice to the point where 99% of the time they refer to me as a woman without any specific cues on my part, but occasionally I do get called sir.

[grace7777]

My sons are feminists in every sense of the word in that they wholly believe that women and men are equal on all levels (I raised my boys right. :)) Yet they would cringe if someone mistook them for women. I think it's more about pride in one's sex. Come to think of it, if someone mistook me for a man I wouldn't like it either and this is true because my brain stem wants me to be recognized as a woman, not because I believe men to be inferior. It's the ancient, biological wiring at play here.

For most people that is true. For me I think my biological wiring is different. Even presenting as male I actually cringe at being called sir. Once when working at an accounting firm, a female client called up and I answered the phone, and she called me ma'am, and It made me feel real good. Tends to confirm to me that I am trans.


If you look like a male, regardless of the attire you are wearing, you should expect to be called "sir" by sales associates, hotel front desk personnel, restaurant staff, and most other people you come into contact with in service-connected businesses. They are trained to be respectful and most patrons expect to be referred to by some title.

If you have a female wig or hairstyle and wearing a dress with hose and heels, then being called sir is plain rude. There is nothing respectful about it. If you are taught to be respectful then you should attempt to be sensitive to the feelings of others. Being respectful is showing appreciation for your customers and intentionally misgendering is not showing appreciation at all. To intentionally sir someone presenting female is to insult them.