Sad News from Argentina: Crossdresser murdered.

[Nadine Robles]

(admins please move this post freely where it suits better)

Once again, hatred and discrimination makes me feel ashamed of my own Country. Though I know the problem is a world wide issue, I cant help but to think society here, as in Latin America in general, seems to keep growing backwards...
Yesterday a 32 year old peruvian cd was beaten to death as she was returning home after a night out en femme. No she wasnt robbed. No she was not raped nor harassed in any way (confirmed by official autopsy). it was pure classic old fashion hate crime. Hatred against a person expressing what he/she is. And it's not the first time neither it will be the last.
I was just thinking about making a mid-lenght post about male chauvinism and coping with retrograde society in general, when this news hit me, and I cant help but asking myself (and the rest of you for that matter) the same old questions over and over again-
How can we even think of coming out safely and accepting who we are, when theres so much hate and reject outside? are we doomed to dwell in our closets forever, at the risk of losing everything and everyone we love, even our own lives?
How can one overcome such things and be brave, and keep doing what makes us happy, are we living an illusion of peace time, or, rather, in fact, still at war? is our society evolving towards freedom of expresion or otherwise, into some distopic opressive future?
Its sad. so sad...

[Justina]

Could possibly be a hate crime yes. Did they question the people that did it?

[Nadine Robles]

They haven't found the man who did it (they suspect a man from a hidden security camera) it was in a poor neighborhood, in the outskirts of Buenos AIres, where there the law is corrupted, so they'll probably never catch him.

[pamela7]

we have to go out in dangerous places in numbers to be safe, otherwise it's taxi or drive

[Robin414]

This is sick, if I could (or ever do) flow back to the blue side I'd be a Marvel super freak advocate...oh wait, I kinda am!

[Natasha V]

I am saddened everytime I here this kind of story. Rip Sister

[Alice Torn]

I was emailing on FB with a genetic woman in Buenos Aires for about a year, then i quit FB for a month, and could not find her. I think she unfriended me, thinking i was gone for ever. This thing we do of dressing as women is unnatural to most all people, and some react in carnal, violent ways, but most leave us alone. it will never be accepted by all. We need to always be aware of those around us. Sorry to hear this.

[sometimes_miss]

I've been assured over and over on this forum that this kind of thing simply doesn't happen anymore, that all we have to fear is fear itself; as long as we 'own it', we'll be just fine. The world is perfectly safe. It says so here all the time.

[bimini1]

I hear it is really bad for us in South America and Caribbean. I've even heard stories of police shooting trans folk in the street.

[lyndsayalexis]

I agree with Pamela, we need to come in numbers to let them know we are here and we are no harm to nobody

[OCCarly]

I am sorry about this, Nadine. Here in the U.S. we are averaging about 25 transgenders being murdered each year, but those are the ones we know about. There may be others that are never reported as crossdressers or transgenders due to bigoted police departments.

I understand that the problem is far worse in Brazil. I think in Brazil more than 300 trans folk are murdered each year; this is a shocking number.

This makes my heart sick; we are such sweet, vulnerable people, and we are treated so badly.

[Tina_gm]

Part of a conversation I was having with my wife last night. A TG convo, indepth, which rarely happens these days, but they do come about here and there. Safety, women being protected... Women do have to worry about being assaulted, sexually attacked, and sometimes just also hurt badly and murdered. Now, the CDer most likely was murdered for the reason of being a CDer. Sadly, we have to have the same and probably more awareness about us when we are out as women do. Walking along at night is thrilling.... until.... And yes what sometimes miss says. There are a lot of bad places a CDer can end up, owning their transgenderism and having no fear.... and it will get real ugly no matter how well they own it and not fear it.

[flatlander_48]

N R:

Clearly, that is very bad news. Presumably, she had family and friends who are only left to mourn. Some things just shouldn't happen, but they do.

DeeAnn

[Beverley Sims]

It is sad to read this on occasions, it is still too prevalent.

It is events like this that keep us wary and ever vigilant.

Stay safe always.

[Krisi]

I've been assured over and over on this forum that this kind of thing simply doesn't happen anymore, that all we have to fear is fear itself; as long as we 'own it', we'll be just fine. The world is perfectly safe. It says so here all the time.

Yep, I have noticed that myself. I think anyone who reads advice on the Internet needs to take it with a grain of salt or perhaps the whole shaker. If you read something that doesn't seem right, it probably is not right.

I think some people who post advice have an agenda. In this case, by posting that everything is safe, they hope more crossdressers will go out in public and make it more "normal" so they can feel better about being a crossdresser themselves.

In any case, we are males inside even though we may dress as females. We are used to going places and doing things that most women have been trained all their lives not to do because it's unsafe. We might get ourselves all dolled up and walk down a dark street at night in a questionable part of town without thinking that we look like a female to others. A woman wouldn't typically do that.

Of course anyone, male, female or crossdresser should be able to go where he or she wants at any time of day and be perfectly safe. The reality is, this is not the case most anywhere in the world. We need to live with reality.

[NicoleScott]

Maybe a hate crime. Maybe not. A hate crime is one that is motivated by a bias against a member of a protected group under hate crime law. If you don't know who did it, nor why, it's not a hate crime by default, just because the victim was a member of a protected group. It might have been random. Rush to judgement.

[Lorileah]

I've been assured over and over on this forum that this kind of thing simply doesn't happen anymore, that all we have to fear is fear itself; as long as we 'own it', we'll be just fine. The world is perfectly safe. It says so here all the time.

I will assume you are being facetious. In any case your post is rude and mean. No one on this board has ever said it is 100% safe or that things don't happen. Those who say it is safer to go out are in North America or Western Europe and they don't imply the whole world is safe.

[Tina_gm]

Lorileah, I am sure to a degree Sometimess miss was being facetious. But, at the same time, there are too many members who give cavalier advice about how ok things are in the general public for us. It could be these people live in a bit of a bubble, a very open accepting area, and there are several notable ones in the U.S., but get outside of those bubbles, and things can get ugly in a hurry, depending on where exactly you are. I also agree too with a poster above, that some of the advice is driven by an agenda to get more out. Last year, I was in Manhattan, middle of the day, from MSG/Penn station up through Time Square and to Central park. Now, here, you will see pretty much everything given time, and not a whole lot of it. So, out of curiosity, I was looking for CDers, to see how many are out in NYC. Yes, I did see a few.... but A FEW. Granted, I am sure I probably missed a few, when scanning through 100 thousand or so, but I was looking, and I know the subtle signs of those who present very well. Maybe I saw a couple that were 100% passable too, but of a 100 thousand and probably more, I really could only see a few in a 3 or 4 hr time span.

Now. go farther south to the village, a whole different story there. a few dozen easily. The Village is very open to LGBT. It probably has more that reside within the letters than doesn't of people who live there. Uptown manhattan, not much is going to happen to you if you are dressed, so long as you stay on the main arteries and establishments. Further down, you will hardly even be a minority. But go north out of the city to farmville, and see what happens then... Strangely, upstate NY is not all that LGBT friendly, as is many of the other north east states, out of the main cities.

[flatlander_48]

Strangely, upstate NY is not all that LGBT friendly, as is many of the other north east states, out of the main cities.

There are pockets. Ithaca is one, followed closely by Rochester. There may be others, but those are 2 that I'm familiar with.

DeeAnn

[Tina_gm]

That are or are not LBGT friendly??

[flatlander_48]

Sorry, thought everybody knew. Ithaca has a long history of being a very liberal and open town; sort of the Berekely of New York State. The LGBT community is entrenched and involved in many areas of civic life.

Civically speaking, Rochester has had a generally good reputation. The LGBT community has made considerable progress over the last 30 years or so. The local LGBT newspaper, The Empty Closet, is one is the longest running continuously published LGBT papers in the country. The Finger Lakes affiliate of Out & Equal is based there and has good support from city government and many area businesses.

However, to me the basic difference is that Rochester is a blue-collar town. Not saying that's a bad thing, but people tend to be more conservative. Ithaca has long been a college town. Just guessing, the total of Cornell plus Ithaca College may be around 50,000 students. That plus faculty can make for a strong influence.

DeeAnn

[Tina_gm]

Whereas the Binghamton area is not real friendly. Also very blue collar. However Albany is quite LBTG friendly.

[Mariselle]

That's awful to hear, and from my experience in Latin America it so often tied to socio-economic status which is a double tragedy in my opinion.

[Amalie]

Sad news indeed, and does not make it easier for those of us that want to get out more when things like this happens.
As said it's not the first and it won't be the last either, I stumbled upon a site for remembrance to people that have been lost by anti-transgender violence as well http://tdor.info/.

But like Lorileah said; North America and Western Europe are probably the safest places to venture out, but I don't think anywhere on earth is by definition 'safe' and precaution should always be taken.
I also dug up an old thread by Shelly on how to stay safe as best you can when out (though your safety can't be guaranteed and it doesn't help those who are already lost, but may help less being lost in the future) http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?86109-Tips-for-your-Safety-(-to-add-to-this-contact-Shelly-Preston).
(Don't let the thread scare you off too much tho, but use it as a guidance. (Risks are taken every day en femme or not)).

[suzanne]

Krisi, I feel like you directed your comment straight at me. How can you actually believe someone would counsel to "own it and get out there" just to provide hate crime targets? That's pretty extreme.

I will say that I for one have been overstating my case for "owning it" by not qualifying it somewhat. There are a lot of places I wouldn't dream of going while dressed up. Or without some friends for support. I only choose places that are likely to be safe, and I was out of line not to emphasize that point. I guess complete freedom of expression is still too far away to not consider the potential for blowback, especially in the present social/political anger.

[sometimes_miss]

I will assume you are being facetious. In any case your post is rude and mean. No one on this board has ever said it is 100% safe or that things don't happen. Those who say it is safer to go out are in North America or Western Europe and they don't imply the whole world is safe.

And yet, it happens in North America and western Europe as well. It's SAFER; it's not SAFE. There is a difference. I'm sure virtually everyone knows that post I made was just to emphasize a point; that point being, we are not as safe as some like to present in so many threads where someone comes looking for support to get the courage to go out dressed en femme. OVer and over I read the pink fog effects taking over, in order to prop up the ego and confidence of someone in order to get them the courage to dress up pretty and go out into the world....but they do it without the warning. You know, the one that should be on labels of female garments that get sold for men to wear: 'Surgeons General Warning: Wearing these in public could be dangerous to your safety and health. Proceed with caution'.

I'm not trying to be insensitive to the death of this person; but I know many will read this thread, and if it gets them to be a little more aware of their surroundings when going out, it just may save someone else's life. No matter what some may think, it's NOT a safe world out there. Bad stuff happens every day. And we need to remember that, so it doesn't happen to US.

[Krisi]

Krisi, I feel like you directed your comment straight at me. How can you actually believe someone would counsel to "own it and get out there" just to provide hate crime targets? That's pretty extreme. .......

That's not at all what I posted. Read my post again with an open mind.

[Mayo]

Gays, lesbians and bisexuals are still assaulted and murdered for their sexual orientation in North America, even after 40+ years of gay rights. Trans people are pushing the envelope now; they've been helped immensely by the overall change in attitudes resulting from the gay rights movement, but there's still a long way to go for acceptance (that we have a Transgender Day of Remembrance every November just shows how far). CDs, I think, are still pretty much 'in the closet'. The spate of anti-trans legislation in the US certainly isn't helping, but the fact that most of these bills are being defeated is encouraging. The more people who stand up, the faster acceptance will come, but those who do so are at greater risk of violence in the current climate, whether they're activists or just trying to live their lives. You still need to be careful.

[Krisi]

Keep in mind that a lot of non gay, lesbian and transsexual people are murdered in North America (and all over the world). Unfortunately, we live in a society where some folks put little or no value on human life. Some people only know how to settle a problem with violence. It doesn't seem to be getting better for anyone. Look at the current statistics for Chicago, USA for example.

So while some of these people may have been assaulted and killed for their gay, lesbian or transsexual status, others may have been assaulted or killed for other reasons.

[Mayo]

Absolutely true, Krisi. The violence done to women in general and people of colour (especially women of colour) comes to mind right away.