I live in North Carolina...

[JayeLefaye]

......Hi All!

It's been a long time since I've logged in here...3 job changes, a mother-in-law passing and cross country trips to deal...

I don't want to ramble about HB2, and hope no one else will in this humble thread.

I just want to say that I'm doing the best I can...Please feel free to send me a PM....And understand that it may take me a while to respond, but every word of comfort will help.

But my bottom line for writing this?

Ever since I moved here in 2009, I've gone out "Full-Fem", "Dressed to blend", "Gender Fluid"(ie:leggings & tunic).....And never, ever had an unpleasant experience....Maybe a sideways glance or two:-)....

But now?

My reality hasn't changed, but my perspective has....

So....Please, Keeping politics out of it.....

My question is:

Did you ever reach a point, out in public, when you were comfortable....And then had a moment when you may have thought:

I'm not as safe as I thought I was?

Jaye

Just wondering

[phylis anne]

Yes I have had those moments but I find they correlate to the situation and or envireonment I am in i/e time of day ,locaion etc
hugs phylis

[Tracii G]

I have had a few encounters with nasty individuals.
99% of the time no problems.

[BillieAnneJean]

There have, in over four years of OUTings at once per week average, only two times in which I felt that the person was acting totally inappropriate and completely disrespectful. One I advised that as a US military veteran, I paid for her right to do that, and that she was going to leave our presence immediately. When she gasped I told her loudly "NOW!" At which she left in a huff. The second was, after her initial informational stage, content with giving some of us a middle finger. But that is OK because they were "saved" as they advised us.

[JayeLefaye]

Yes I have had those moments but I find they correlate to the situation and or envireonment I am in i/e time of day ,locaion etc
hugs phylis

hi Phylis...Love ya bunches!

2:00 pm...Supermarket buying weekly groceries...Have done it for 6 years...No problem....And still no problems....Except, perhaps, in my newly adjusted "perception", here in NC.

To quote a Buffalo Springfield lyric, from a song called: For What it's Worth:

Battle lines being drawn...

...Why do any battle lines need being drawn?

How's that for a rhetorical question?

XOXOX

Jaye

- - - Updated - - -



XOXOX

Jaye

[Alice Torn]

Jaye, Not all people of faith are hostile to us. I have only had a few nervous moments, back in 2005, once when a cop stopped me, and the next day, when guys shouted some bad things out of a vehicle, when i was strutting across the crosswalk., and later that day, a man needed me to give his car battery a jump, as i was parked next to him. He told his children not to look.

[Jenniferathome]

...
My question is:

Did you ever reach a point, out in public, when you were comfortable....And then had a moment when you may have thought:

I'm not as safe as I thought I was?

Jaye

Just wondering

Jaye, I wrote about the comfort issue recently here: http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?237914-A-noticeable-change-in-being-out-now

As for safety, I am as safe as I can be anywhere. I do all the same things I do when in guy mode. I never worry.

[heatherdress]

Sorry for your loss and person difficulties, Jaye.

No - I have not experienced feelings of being unsafe when dressed. I am careful about where I go and have never felt unsafe when I crossdressed. But I have, many times in my life, felt unsafe when not crossdressing. If you are in an risky place or environment, or performing dangerous duties, or if you are around unsavory people, you feel unsafe no matter how you are dressed.

[JayeLefaye]

Thanks to all who took the time to respond. I truly appreciate the words of comfort and links...:-)...XOXOX

And I am trying very, very, hard to not violate any of the very, very well guided simple requirements of posting here, on this most safest of Internet Sites!!!

With that said:-)

I "framed" my question as a "personal" question, asking for personal experiences...Thank you for your responses!

But what I was really trying to say, is that for 6 years here, in NC, I only went out at night once(It was my 59th birthday and my wife bought me a wig & she and I went out as blonds...It was a hoot!

But most of my journey's out have been simple day-to-day grocery (and other daily needs shopping), ....5 days per week....Sometimes full Fem...Sometimes mix and match.

......I always had a smile...Never once had a bad interaction...Was complimented on my choice of "Fingernail" colors and "Where did you get those boots?"...I was never "judged" by those who I came into contact with...

...Even today, at a grocery store, wearing leggings and a tunic top...Shopped in, shopped out....A positive experience...:-

But the recent (Edit: events) has given me many reasons to pauses....

XOXOX to all!

Jaye

[Lorileah]

Moderator reminder: No religion or politics here. Especially NO DISSING people of religions or political views. I am leaving the location of the OP but discussions of the laws passed or vetoed in that state are not for this section, there is a thread in media for that. So let's keep it friendly

[JayeLefaye]

Sorry Lorileah, It's been a while since I've been here, so I wasn't sure how to post my recent feelings while trying to keep "politics" out of it.

Your PM to me was well received and very much appreciated!!!!

I wanted this thread to be about "comfort zones"...And my perspective of them.

My daily grocery shopping/hardware/pet food runs haven't been altered...The only thing that has been altered is my own perception of my daily comfort zone...

I still go out...I still have positive interactions 99% of the time... The other 1% are just the occasional looks...I do my best to blend:-)

But HB2 hit me hard and I haven't been here for a while...

Bottom line? As Lorileah says, let's keep it friendly...

Jaye

[PaulaQ]

Jaye, how do you feel about the terrible propaganda being put out about transgender people in NC? It feels terrible, I'd think. Could you talk about how just hearing this stuff makes you feel?

[PattyT]

In all my many years of crossdressing, I've rarely had any problem. Alice torn noted, " ...when guys shouted some bad things out of a vehicle,... " This is about as bad as it gets with me and it is extremely rare. I do worry at times whether someone might get physically nasty but that is very unlikely to happen.
Tracii G stated, "I have had a few encounters with nasty individuals. 99% of the time no problems. "
This has been my experience too.

[GenieGirl]

I reached the comfort point a few years ago after I went out a few times. I live as a girl pretty much outside of work at this point. I was in the bathroom this weekend and a lady tried to make small talk with me. That was the first time in a long time that I felt uncomfortable. Now that the whole country knows about the NC bill and even though I was not in a school or state building where the law applies I realized I felt uncomfortable because a lot of people who are not up to date on all the details of the law probably assume the law applies to all bathrooms. So in a scenario if someone finds out that I wasn't born female then it could cause a situation where they react badly to me now that the spotlight is on me in bathrooms. I didn't have any problems in this encounter nor do I ever but it made me think about it for the first time in a long time.

[JayeLefaye]

Jaye, how do you feel about the terrible propaganda being put out about transgender people in NC? It feels terrible, I'd think. Could you talk about how just hearing this stuff makes you feel?

It hurts, Paula, thanks for asking. It just hurts. As I said, I only go out during the day. I never use the women's room, it just doesn't feel right for me, but "The Bathroom Myth" is such a fear-mongering flashpoint. I used to feel very comfortable going out doing my daily rounds. The clerks have seen me in many forms of attire, and it's always been pleasant. But now,if I'm pushing a cart around the grocery store, I no longer worry about whether someone knows I'm a guy, I now worry about them thinking I must be a pervert who's going to try to sneak into the women's room and molest little girls...That's a whole different mindset, and it saddens me.

And I should add that my wife is a therapist with many trans clients. Their "comfort levels" have been shattered.

Jaye

[mykell]

hey jay,
being out in the wild is relatively new for me, was fairly comfortable doing it thou i had my worst fear come true and lived through it.....the store lost power when i went in to purchase makeup remover, took forever for the registers to re-boot, i dont think i blend to easily being 6" with 42" chest without forms.....so being trapped online en-femme was that fear.

but the spotlite this issue has raised has me more apprehensive, all one has to do is read the comments section of any of the online stories about this topic, i know they are from behind keyboards but they are hostile and hateful....and the one i read was local here....

[Krisi]

I have visited North Carolina a few times and it seems like a nice place. Of course any state or any part of the country will have its nice places and its "not nice" places.

There was a time when we could dress and as long as we made an effort and reasonably passed, we were pretty much free to go into a women's restroom, quickly do our business, wash and leave. Now, with all the insistence on being allowed to use women's restrooms and especially boys being allowed to use girls restrooms and locker rooms in schools, the issue has been blown out of proportion. Girls and women are afraid of men in the restrooms and men are afraid for their wives and daughters. This is why we are now seeing laws restricting males from the female restrooms where in the past it was overlooked.

[ReineD]

I live in North Carolina...


Ever since I moved here in 2009, I've gone out "Full-Fem", "Dressed to blend", "Gender Fluid"(ie:leggings & tunic).....And never, ever had an unpleasant experience....Maybe a sideways glance or two:-)....

But now?

Did you ever reach a point, out in public, when you were comfortable....And then had a moment when you may have thought:

I'm not as safe as I thought I was?


Don't let the media dictate your perceptions. You've heard of the term "media bias (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_bias)"? It includes tactics such as sensationalism and a tendency to report what everyone else is reporting, to increase viewership. There's a lot of media coverage on NC HB 2 right now, which may give the impression that people who live and work in North Carolina are willing to go out with pitchforks and terrorize any person who crossdresses or transitions. Do take the time to read all the articles about how people in North Carolina and elsewhere are fighting against the bill, or believe that the bill is not who North Carolina wants to be.

If you've never had unpleasant experiences while going out, then you shouldn't expect anything different now. You mirror the bulk of experiences from other CDers here, no matter what state they live in. For the most part, people you come across while you are out are too busy and preoccupied with their own lives and affairs to pay much attention to what you're doing. And if you do get read, 99% of the time people will keep their opinions to themselves. While it is true that some will privately disagree with what you're doing, some will think you brave for going out as you do, and the bulk of people simply won't care. The people you will interact with directly, the SAs and restaurant personnel, do want your business and they will treat you with respect.

Need to use a bathroom? Unless you are in a government office or in a school, you can use them. The governor did say that the bathroom law only applies to government offices and schools. Still, if you feel uncomfortable, use gender-neutral or single-user bathrooms. And if you do identify as a male and not as a female, I should think unless you're in a dire pinch, you'll prefer the single-user bathrooms? Which bathrooms have you used in the past?

Back to the North Carolina HB 2, there are a few things you should know:

First, here's a PDF of the actual law:
http://www.ncleg.net/Sessions/2015E2/Bills/House/PDF/H2v4.pdf

And here's an analysis of it:
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/politics-government/article68401147.html
http://www.wfmynews2.com/news/local/new-state-law-impacts-ncs-minimum-wages/112453948

There are other areas to be concerned about that have nothing to do with crossdressing or transitioning. HB 2 limits how people pursue claims of discrimination because of race, religion, color, national origin, biological sex or handicap in state courts. The law also means a city or county cannot set a minimum wage standard for private employers.

And last ... one week after signing in HB 2, NC governor McRory issued Executive Order 93 to REVERSE part of HB 2. lol. Here are details of the Executive Order 93:
http://governor.nc.gov/press-release/governor-mccrory-takes-action-protect-privacy-and-equality

So, just go out there and enjoy yourself. North Carolina is a beautiful state! :)


It hurts, Paula, thanks for asking. It just hurts. As I said, I only go out during the day. I never use the women's room, it just doesn't feel right for me, but "The Bathroom Myth" is such a fear-mongering flashpoint.

Sorry, I just saw this. Don't allow your fears to be fanned by the media or others who might wish you to focus on your fears. All these TG bathroom bills that "suggest" a widely spread vindication against crossdressers or transitioners, don't suggest any such thing. When you are out, people will not treat you any differently than they have. Just keep going out and enjoying yourself and pay attention to how the SAs treat you. This will give you a much better clue of people's general attitudes.

And I applaud your attitude about preferring to not use the women's bathrooms, if you don't identify as a woman. My SO feels the same way (my SO is not TS). There are plenty of single-user bathrooms around. My SO has used women's facilities in a pinch (just as I've used male facilities in a pinch), but only when they were rather empty. I used the male bathrooms at an arena when the line for the women's room was huge, with no one in the men's. Other women followed me in there. lol.

[JayeLefaye]

Thanks to all who responded. Some of you really touched my heart and gave me comfort!!!

A special thanks to Ms. Loreleah, who was gentle to someone who hadn't been here for a while.

I'll leave this "thread" now, less it devolves into something other than, umm, "comfort zones" that you once had.

Like I said, I haven't been here in a while, and never even knew there was a "Media" section when I posted this.

My suspicion is that I may drop in there more often.

Meanwhile, there have been 2 recent "bathroom law" threads deleted in the last few hours here, due, I suspect, because the responders failed to "Keep it friendly"...I'm just guessing....

So please, friends, allow this thread to remain un-deleted as long as possible, just in case someone else needs to know that they're not alone in the loss of a "comfort zone".

Just sayin'....

Jaye

- - - Updated - - -

Ok, I just posted my thank to all and signed out of this thread, but Reine was posting at the same time:-)...Thanks for your encouraging words!!!

As to where I pee, if I'm out for more than an hour during the day?....The farthest end of a parking lot and into the bushes!1! I don't want and GG's uncomfortable in the bathroom, and I don't want my butt kicked while standing at a urinal with my skirt hiked-up and my back turned to whoever may be coming through the door:-)

But that's just me:-)

Again...Thanks ALL!!!

Jaye

[ReineD]

Ugh ... I'm afraid there will be a lot more bathroom threads in the next while. It seems to be the pet issue of the day in Southern states (and it's a great way to sneak in new laws that benefit the bottom line of corporations), even though these bills do not reflect people's real attitudes about TGs.

I just wish that members here wouldn't fall for the hype and get so spooked over every single article.

[JayeLefaye]

P.S...

Thanks Reine!!! who was posting at the same time I was bowing out:-)

Jaye

P.S...Will meet ya'll in the "Media"...But not here...

XOXOX

Jaye

[Amy Lynn3]

ReineD, thank you for your thoughtful post. I live in NC and you explained the situation very well, especially for someone living outside NC. You are correct in saying HB 2 has spooked some people, but on the other hand it has made certain ones happy. You offer a perfect solution to the people who have been spooked, if they need to use a restroom in a government building, or any restroom for that matter.

I have heard the subject talked about some, but not as much as one might think. It almost seems to be a non issue for the locals. People seem to be going on about their every day business and the major topics I hear talked about are the, election, jobs, inflation and rearing children.

[ReineD]

Oh gosh.

I'm contributing to this thread again to give an example of what I mean by "hype".

My SO came home and brought a copy of the student newspaper. On the front page, in big black letters, is a story of a TG student who meets with the state governor to discuss the use of bathrooms in universities. I know the students here, and no one cares whether a person who uses any bathroom is TG or cis.

But here's the situation. Higher Ed is being defunded in our state, resulting in wide-spread faculty cutbacks, which results in tuition hikes and downsizing or getting rid of PhD programs, and this will have a negative impact on the breadth of degrees awarded and undergrad enrollment, which will keep the whole thing spiraling downward. There is talk in our state of having some universities close!

So although I appreciate that this student wants to discuss bathroom issues with the governor, there might not be a university for the student to graduate from with any bathrooms to use, if the current state of affairs continues. If I were this student and had the governor face-to-face, I would prioritize a discussion of university funding and the rising cost of Higher Ed, and the possibility of having my degree program terminated and having to transfer to another university to get the degree I want (and perhaps having to repeat courses that would not transfer, resulting in an even greater debt), and the likelihood of finding a job in my field that would pay enough to enable me to not take 20 years to pay back student debt.

And then I would return home and continue to use my bathroom of choice, just as this student always has.

There is nothing on the front page of this newspaper, or any article inside, that incites students to protest against the deplorable state of affairs in our state's Higher Ed that will have a huge impact on their futures.

<edit> Thanks Amy Lynn! And I think we should remind everyone here to maintain an objective view rather than keep responding to the hype. The bottom line is that the bulk of people out there don't think negatively of TGs but this certainly is not the impression we all get through the incessant barrage of articles (and members who keep falling for the hype) on the use of TG bathrooms. It's almost as bad as the hype that surrounded Caytlin Jenner's coming out, which was another great way way to keep up readership.

[JayeLefaye]

Deep breath, Reine...Don't forget to breath! We(and the world in general) need you!

Jaye

[ReineD]

It's OK ... I'm cool. :D I don't blame you for starting this thread. And I hope you feel better about it now and will give encouragement to other CDers who also express fears over the bathroom issues.

My youngest son complained there was nothing to fight for the way my generation did in the 60s and 70s. I encouraged him to learn more about how our domestic and global government/corpotate systems actually work, so he can also get past all the wedge social issues and address the fundamental economic issues. Once the real economic issues are addressed, all the wedge social issues will disappear.

[PaulaQ]

I do want to caution folks to be careful out there. We are seeing quite a lot of attacks against trans women this year - not all bathroom related and not all in southern states. The problem with this issue is it gives knuckle-heads the feeling that it's open season on us. A couple of trans women were attacked by a mob in Portland, OR on Friday, for example. They were standing outside a convenience store, minding their own business when someone shouted "That's a man!" and then a group of people attacked them.

So understand that these things can happen, and I believe inciting such incidents is part of the point of the propaganda. Mostly it's a matter of being in the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong people present. Mostly.

I'm not suggesting anyone do anything different - you have to live your lives. But the debate over trans rights is happening all over the country, and the truth is that no place is truly safe for us. So be careful and be as aware as you can be of your surroundings.

This is also just the beginning of this. Some of our enemies really do want us dead.


It hurts, Paula, thanks for asking. It just hurts.

This is a big part of the problem about this issue. The negative campaigns, hateful Facebook posts, clueless media stories, and outright hateful speech directed against us, especially in states that have passed these things takes a big toll on people. I've talked to people who lived in Houston when during the election where the current set of tactics made their debut. It is emotionally brutal to listen to ads on TV that compare you to a sex offender. Even if you aren't at ground zero where one of these things is happening, the repercussions of it can be felt all over the country. Since I run a support group, I see a lot of really frightened and depressed people because of this.

Edit: one last thought. The media aren't hyping the attacks against us. In fact they are likely suppressing reports of them quite a bit. We've seen this same thing happen with the wave of homophobic attacks against gay men in my old neighborhood. There were a number of savage attacks that were unreported by the media. I know this because several of them happened just outside of the condos where I lived.

[JayeLefaye]

Chiming back in for just a moment to say how encouraged I'm feeling at the moment. With all that's been going on recently, not just here in NC but in other states, a lot of eyes were watching Virginia and hoping for the best. This will seriously impact a lot. YAY!: https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/court-overturns-virginia-schools-transgender-bathroom-rule-173616399.html

Jaye

[ReineD]

That's good, Jaye.

Have you seen the sticky at the top of the Media section (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?238503-Legal-status-for-TGs-in-the-US)? I've put together a list that reflects what's going on in the country at large, to better show the situation in this country overall. It's too easy to get spooked when just looking at individual bad-news headlines. And also keep in mind that the bigoted bills are getting so much backlash that they will not stand in the long run.