Question About Where I am At

[Nadine Spirit]

Now I know that nobody but myself can definitively answer this question for me, but I am curious as to other's thoughts on the matter.

Does my growing irritation about the posts/replies on the MtF CD section of this board indicate that maybe I don't identify with others who consider themselves CDs? And does that indicate that I am not a part of that group?

I mean, I already know that I exist far differently than most CDs. I am out to most everyone in my life, they all know that I consider myself to exist somewhere in the gender spectrum. I have told them that occasionally I fully cross dress, and that I am 100% gender non-conforming. My family, friends, and work all know that I am transgender.

I suppose what I am asking is, am I just deluding myself and not seeing the obvious, that actually I am really TS?

[Dana44]

Nadine, h'mm I've always seen you as a happy CD. Perhaps you are in the tween group that Robin started. I am in that group but still fully gender fluid and don't see me going the TS route. I would get some therapy to help you define where you are.

[AllieSF]

I can't specifically answer that last question. For that and if you are at the point of really needing third party input, then find an experienced professional.

As for not relating to what is posted in the CD section, that may just be a matter of taste, reading burn out, current crop of topics, etc. A lot of that just changes over time. I have been here a long time and really do enjoy posting in interesting threads where I may find that my experience or opinions may provide a valid response to an OP's open questions. Other times, I may not be in the mood for some of the repeat topics that come up all the time. And to be honest, I have no problem at all if similar topics come up frequently. Sometimes the new slant on the topic is more interesting than the ;previous ones. Also, I was a newbie once and old topics for the regulars here before that moment were all new to me and very valid as topics. I honestly, hardly ever look in what section a thread originates since I always look for the new posts (too bad they can't seem to restore that wonderful "New Posts" button to working order!) and participate when the topic sounds interesting. You are further down the road than I am with your total openness which is to be highly commended. The little I know about you gives me confidence that you will successfully navigate this part of your life and move on to the next challenges. Good luck and do keep us "posted"!

[ReineD]

Another thing to consider is the length of time you've been doing this and the level of acceptance in your personal life (your spouse's attitudes, whether you live in a more progressive urban environment vs. a more conservative rural area, etc). So if you have been able to construe your life such that you can go out frequently and it has become no big deal, you won't have the same concerns or "wish lists" and accompanying frustrations that many other members do have. And so your interests will differ from theirs. In short, you're way past keeping it in the closet and being interested in the type of activities that often closeted people are interested in.

This is just one aspect of it, regardless of what is your gender identity. But, if you should ever get to the point where you want to be 24/7 full-time female (not androgynous), change your legal markers, and bring your body in line with a female gender identity, then you would be different than the bulk of people who post in the CD section. IMO.

[Jenniferathome]

... Does my growing irritation about the posts/replies on the MtF CD section of this board indicate that maybe I don't identify with others who consider themselves CDs? And does that indicate that I am not a part of that group?...

Nadine, I think you know that I place myself firmly on "dude" ground and only identify as male. I'm just a cross dressing tourist as it were. But I could have written the EXACT same thing that I quoted above.

Now, based on my interactions with you and your many writings here and on your blog, and not even using myself as a baseline, I think you are WAY more than a cross dresser. Nothing wrong with that but I can see where you'd not identify with someone like me.

[Megan G]

You are correct when you say only you can answer the question you are posing but to elaborate on what you are asking...

When I joined here over ten years ago the one thing I did learn very quickly was that I could not relate to crossdressers. I was not angry or irritated by what they were posting but just could not understand why the subjects they were talking about were so important to them. Infact when I came out to my wife I showed her the forum to see if she wanted to join to get support from the GG's but cautioned her to read what the CD's were posting with a grain of salt because thier views/interests did not reflect mine.

It was not for several more years before I looked at the TS side, mostly due to fear but when I did I completely related and could actually "feel" what the TS's were saying.

So I guess the question is "why are you irritated by the posts lately"? Is it because they are concentrated on the superficial aspect (clothing, makeup ect) and lack substance or is it because they just do not reflect who you are as an individual.

Megan.

[Lauri K]

Now I know that nobody but myself can definitively answer this question for me, but I am curious as to other's thoughts on the matter.

Does my growing irritation about the posts/replies on the MtF CD section of this board indicate that maybe I don't identify with others who consider themselves CDs?

Nadine, you likely have matured along the way through real life experiences, and like you I struggle to identify as CD as well when I read some of the CD threads posted because I cannot identify with them either.

Real life experiences separate the two labeled groups often times.............I could write a lot about that topic.

I am not calling anyone out here, we all started somewhere and I get that...............but I am guessing that after a few decades of wearing panties you no longer can find any humor in someone asking if they think anyone will notice if they are wearing panties, pantyhose, bras etc. to work under their normal male attire. (but everyone starts somewhere, and I have to give them respect for that even though I am bored to tears to read the thread)

Or alternatively if you already have both your ears pierced you may not have much interest in a ear ring thread.

We are a support group here which is awesome, but we all move along the continuum of time at different paces and I also can find it hard to understand others beginnings and what they are pursuing as so called "I am just a CD" and straight, hetro etc. etc..

I am not trying to put words in your post here, but it sounds to me like you are at a point where it is way more than being a CD and you have been there and done a lot of things that others just getting started with. You even agree that you are TS/TG.

I love to offer advise and help everyone but sometimes people can only know if they do it on their own terms............

This posts reminds me of a question that was posed one time " Am I Trans Enough " whaaat..........there is no way to measure that, is there.

My advice is don't get hung up on all the boxes and labels, just be yourself and be proud of who you are.

But alternatively I hope this will ring a tone with some of the irritation you may have as I think there are possibly others here who share your sentiment.

[ReineD]

I have a question, since a few people have mentioned it. What's "way more than a CD"? Does it mean that someone is transsexual, identifies as a woman, and wants to transition?

What do people think that "CD" means? Is it mostly someone who gets kicks out of wearing panties?

Not wanting to start a label war, just trying to understand what "way more than a CD" actually means.

[Suzanne F]

Nadine
First of all I loved our time together with our spouses and hope to see you again. I believe that the fact you openly identify yourself to friends and family as transgender separates you from most crossdressers. I found you to be very female but that was the only way you presented. I think you have had a lot of time to compare how comfortable you are in both genders. I am sure you will make wise decisions concerning any changes. Take care!
Suzanne

[Rogina B]

You are "comfortable in your own skin" and you are not alone in that here. We row our own boat on our own course in this life. There are lots of courses you can choose to take.What works for one may not be the same as another's.

[Jenniferathome]

Reine, to me a cross dresser is that. A man who identifies as a man but cross dresses. Anyone who identifies as a thing more than just a guy(MtF CD, of course) is "more than" just a cross dresser. As that scale tips more and more towards identifying as a woman or somewhere close, that is "way more". Gender fluid is way more than just a CD. To me.

[ReineD]

So again, to clarify (and to hopefully to help make this clearer for others who might think that "way more than CD" = "transsexual"), we are talking of a sliding scale of gender fluidity as opposed to transsexualism, right?

[PretzelGirl]

One of the things about the main forum is that it is teeming with people and there is a large variety of identities there. I can see it easily being tiring to read constantly about feelings or issues that don't pertain to yourself.

[Jenniferathome]

So again, to clarify (and to hopefully to help make this clearer for others who might think that 1) "way more than CD" = "transsexual"), 2)we are talking of a sliding scale of gender fluidity as opposed to transsexualism, right?

On point 1, no, I think anyone who is transexual left CDing a long time ago. Again, to me, I would put it it at "don't identify exclusively as a man regardless of attire = more than a CD". Now, to get to "way more" brings us to point 2). Yes, it's a sliding scale, to me

[Georgette_USA]

When I was in US NAVY in 1972, I identified as a CD to the psychiatrists and security people as I had not explored just where I belonged yet. Knowledge was very sparse back then.
After military I got with CDs at parties. Met my partner there and some others. I think we realized that just being a CD was not our thing.
Don't think it was a way more than a CD, just not the same.
Took a lot of research but we started to explore the whole TS thing. And met some that were doing that and some that already had done it.

Not sure why some people on these sites take the attitude that TG/TS look/talk down on or dismiss CDs. I will admit I have seen some of the TG/TS that may do that. We are all on different points on the spectrum at times.

[Marcelle]

Hi Nadine,

I think you have just come to the realization that a "rinse and repeat" of several subjects cannot hold your interest as they used to. Since I have been here, you have been consistent in your stance on being gender fluid and I believe that is where you are comfortable at present. Perhaps some of the subjects here resonate more with you because you can identify with some (e.g., being out to the world).

Cheers

Marcelle

[pamela7]

There are only so many "i just got busted", "i nearly got caught" and similar threads that the out-of-closet CD or fluid or trans is going to read/reply before losing interest. They're for encouraging CD. The fluid/tween grouping could indeed deserve its own little group area, as it would be a nice bridge for some folks heading in the direction of opening up to transition, and also a nice space to discuss things fluid.

As to your question, once you start asking these questions the obvious thing to ask is why are you asking them? Because unconsciously at least, there is something more within that wants something. This suggests at least fluid and at most late-onset TS, right?

[Krisi]

We don't all fit neatly into little boxes, humans are complex. That's why you see the same people on different sections of this forum. Are you a crossdresser? Technically, if you are a male and you sometimes wear women's clothes, you are a crossdresser. That's the definition.

You don't have to read the MtF CD section if you don't want to or feel it doesn't apply to you. If you identify more with the transsexual section, that's fine, that's where you should be.

Only you can decide if you are a TS. There's no "test".

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Now I know that nobody but myself can definitively answer this question for me, but I am curious as to other's thoughts on the matter.

Does my growing irritation about the posts/replies on the MtF CD section of this board indicate that maybe I don't identify with others who consider themselves CDs? And does that indicate that I am not a part of that group?

I mean, I already know that I exist far differently than most CDs. I am out to most everyone in my life, they all know that I consider myself to exist somewhere in the gender spectrum. I have told them that occasionally I fully cross dress, and that I am 100% gender non-conforming. My family, friends, and work all know that I am transgender.

I suppose what I am asking is, am I just deluding myself and not seeing the obvious, that actually I am really TS?

it seems to me you are looking for validation (like all of us)

the idea of "more than a cd" as discussed in this thread doesn't resonate with me...the word "more" kind of feels wrong...cd's don't become more anything...they dont morph into something else...and they are certainly not "less" than anything
i like simply "i'm not a cd, i'm not male"...

Clearly you are not a cd male.. what you are is the fun part and is totally personal...

and trust me there is no exclusive TS club to aspire to ...there is no magic to it...if you have a good life, and you are centered and functional in life, if you can give and receive love, if you feel alive, you have a good base to go forward, not think so much and live your best life... if that starts to change, and you can't feel alive, and you can't function , then that is a much better tell than getting irritated at conversations that don't resonate with you...its when that irritation crosses the line and creates distress in your life that you might start thinking harder about it..

also so often i see this creeping judgement of cd's... don't fall into that trap... ..

[Nadine Spirit]

Before I attempt some sort of response to many of your thoughts let me just babble a bit more about myself:

I don't feel as though I have changed much over the years, as in I don't think one aspect of cross dressing has led to the next as if I am sliding down some slippery slope into transition. I really feel like it is an opening up of my own mind to view who I have actually always been. Nothing has changed really, except for my understanding. Writing, reading, talking, listening, all of it helps me to understand the world and myself better. So I greatly appreciate everyone's opinions, they help me to form my own.

Really, most of my pondering is a result of what I consider to be my gender non-conforming behavior. My cross dressing (when I fully dress as a woman) is very limited, maybe 2 to 3 times per month. My gender non-conforming behaviors is where I am full time. I do that everywhere, in front of everyone, and make no attempts to hide it or explain it away. It is the gender non-conforming things that have been with me, been a part of me, since as long as I can remember. They did not arise consciously, they have just always been. I was only made aware of them once people began to make fun of me while growing up. It is those aspects that I tried to hide, that I tried to deny and run away from. It is those behaviors that I am trying to be more open to accepting as who I am.



But, if you should ever get to the point where you want to be 24/7 full-time female (not androgynous), change your legal markers, and bring your body in line with a female gender identity, then you would be different than the bulk of people who post in the CD section. IMO.

And maybe it is just as simple as that Reine. Maybe wanting to do what you stated is what defines someone as TS and that if you are not interested in doing that, then maybe you are not TS. But couldn't someone be TS and not actually want to transition? Because I kind of view what you describe more along the lines of transition. Can you be TS and not transition? I would say yes.



.... I think you are WAY more than a cross dresser.

Since I have joined this forum I have become more and more aware that I am not your average typical cross dresser. Presenting the mix of genders as I do, and telling those around me about considering myself to be transgender, those two things separate me from most cross dressers.



So I guess the question is "why are you irritated by the posts lately"? Is it because they are concentrated on the superficial aspect (clothing, makeup ect) and lack substance or is it because they just do not reflect who you are as an individual.


I think it is a bit of both. Yeah many of the posts are just so lame! But I have begun to wonder if it is more because I just don't identify with most who adopt the CD label.



Real life experiences separate the two labeled groups often times..............

Maybe this is what it is. Maybe it is this idea that a large number of cross dressers live in a fantasy world, whereas TSs don't, they live in the real world. This really resonates with me.



I believe that the fact you openly identify yourself to friends and family as transgender separates you from most crossdressers.


I would agree!


What works for one may not be the same as another's.

Yeah, that is true. So that translates to.... there is more than one way to be a CD? And there is more than one way to be TS? So is there some sort of space where the two overlap?



Since I have been here, you have been consistent in your stance on being gender fluid and I believe that is where you are comfortable at present.

Thanks Marcelle. The only correction I would make is that I don't really identify with the idea of gender fluid, as my identity does not seem to fluctuate from day to day.



As to your question, once you start asking these questions the obvious thing to ask is why are you asking them? Because unconsciously at least, there is something more within that wants something. This suggests at least fluid and at most late-onset TS, right?

Well, yeah I get what you are saying..... but honestly, I question everything; much to the annoyance of my patient wife. Seriously, I really think I have questioned just about every aspect of my life. So for me to not question this rea would be just odd. I don't put much weight into the idea that since I am questioning something, that it therefore means something. All it means is that I am pondering life and questioning everything about it.



Are you a crossdresser? Technically, if you are a male and you sometimes wear women's clothes, you are a crossdresser. That's the definition.



Hmmm.... thanks Krisi. And possibly it is this idea of how to define a word that I am considering here. Believe it or not, I am quite familiar with the definition of a CD. What I am not familiar with is how to define somebody that does what I do. When one can be defined as a cross dresser for wearing women's panties, and that is all they do, and when compared to me, there is a vast divide. So....?


...its when that irritation crosses the line and creates distress in your life that you might start thinking harder about it..

also so often i see this creeping judgement of cd's... don't fall into that trap... ..

This is fantastic advice Kaitlyn, and I greatly appreciate it!

You know with the whole judgement thing..... that is kind of where I started with this forum. Many thought I was troll looking to flame. With me judging folks I kind of look at it as, well I will judge for myself if it is acceptable to me and my life, if not I will state why I think it is wrong. If I think it is right, I will try and uphold it



Okay...... thanks everyone! I appreciate all of the input. I would like to point out though, I placed this thread purposefully in the TS section as I was/am kind of hoping for more responses from those who consider themselves as TS. I have experience with the CD identifiers, but I rarely have much contact/input from those who consider themselves TS.

[Tina_gm]

Well, I won't be able to add to those who identify as TS..... but I think I can in some ways relate to feeling not a lot like a lot of the CDers though. I really really don't get a lot of the excited sensations thing. The thrills of shopping, the obsessions of 6 inch heels..... I do not ever change how I feel about myself, I do not become anyone other than myself when I am dressed, from which ever rack the clothes I am wearing come from. Dressing for me is only a way of connecting the outside to what is inside. It is a comfortable relaxing feeling, nothing more. It is pretty much why you never see me address the panty threads, or the omg, I am feeling like such a girl when I am wearing heels threads. I like wearing heels, but I don't feel more feminine... I feel taller.

[Nadine Spirit]

I feel taller - hahahahaha!! So true!

[Kaitlyn Michele]

you kind of remind me of my best friend...dresses fully and presents as "her" ...in supportive marraige...very gender queer when not dressed...

I call her by her female name where she goes...i only knew her as a cd friend for a couple years but as we got closer i saw the other side of it..

if i had to guess, i'd say she would love to transition...but her life doesnt "allow it", and her distress is basically nonexistent...
i think she also has some fears and phobias around medical stuff....it all adds up to a very gender fluid life for her...

[Georgette_USA]

Can you be TS and not transition? I would say yes.
And there is more than one way to be TS?
I don't really identify with the idea of gender fluid, as my identity does not seem to fluctuate from day to day.
I was/am kind of hoping for more responses from those who consider themselves as TS.


You asked what those that consider themselves as TS think. From someone who fits in that category and is actually BEEN/BEING a Post-Op TS for 38 years.

A lot of my understanding are from 40 year old definitions. I am just now, last 1.5 years learning all this new terms and ideas. I'm sure some of these were around then, but not seen or heard from much.

I have been confused about people who consider themselves as Gender Queer/Gender Fluid/Gender Non-Confiming really means. You can Google them but like anything, you will get definitions all over the place.
On-line it says
“Gender nonconforming” refers to people who do not follow other people’s ideas or stereotypes about how they should look or act based on the female or male sex they were assigned at birth. Which can mean many things to different people.

That is one of the reasons for the TG term. Not all people who embrace the term TG, imply it is ONLY TS. All these sub-categories fit under it. Generally people that identify as full TS do transition as one or the other gender. I have friends that identify as one or more of those and non-binary do not think of themselves as TS but do embrace the TG term. So by what I am familiar with NO you would not fit the TS category. There are many ways to transition with or without HRT - non or some or all of the full SRS surgeries. And I am sure there are many who identify as TS and may not choose to transition at all, and many who denied it for many years.

Since you do sometimes CD fully I assume, but also consider yourself as Gender Non_confirming for the most part, you maybe more than just a CD, but are 100% TG.

[Nadine Spirit]

So to me.... gender non-conforming -
- I have my nails painted 24/7/365
- both my ears are pierced
- I wear fem jewelry - including a diamond and sapphire wedding ring
- I shave my body
- I wear mostly female clothing
- I carry a female wallet
- I occasionally carry a purse
- I have a female style iPad and phone case
- frequently I will attend public swimming locations with a bikini bottom

But all the while I am in no way attempting to present as anything other than a male.

Whereas with fully cross dressing - I am attempting to present as best as I can as a woman.

Hmmm...... I think that about covers it....

[jentay1367]

It seems to me that you are either a Woman or a Man. That construct is in the brain. These things have nothing to do with genitalia. I would postulate that if you're in the fluid spectrum, you still don't know. Once you do, you can either manage your feelings or do something to physically adopt congruence with your thoughts and feelings.
In my mind's eye, the burly guy driving a truck who knows he is a woman but has done nothing about it and told no one, is as transsexual as the post op who passes easily. Miss burly just hasn't followed the same path. On the same note, the person who dresses as a female and adopts some of the mannerisms and social behaviors of a woman to the point of passing, may or may not be trans. Only that person can know for sure. I digress. My point is, you either know or not, you either are or aren't. I don't think adopting behaviours or clothing will take you further in the journey. Lisa

[Kaitlyn Michele]

all i can think of is that you go to the pool in a bikini bottom...

[Georgette_USA]

That is definitely Non-Conforming.

So you do not have any confusion on your Gender, you are still a male but like to CD. The old idea of a "female trapped in a male body". Have you attempted any Gender Therapy. Or attended any TG/TS support groups. Must be plenty in CA, or do you live in the isolated areas. Not sure you will get much help here.

Others may disagree, but without the full Gender Dysphoria I would not consider you a TS but a TG yes. You can find so much on-line, but I think most all here would agree you need to consult a Therapist for a better understanding.

Prior to my full transition I did some of those, but tried to present as much as a male until I was ready.

Are you more concerned with the terms/labels you have for yourself, or what others may what to shoe horn you into. Do you not feel comfortable with being TG and Non-Conforming. I see you as Trans Gender Non-Conforming, and if you feel good about yourself, I would not worry about it. I say forget all the terms/labels and just enjoy yourself.

I assume your Avatar is when fully dressed and from what I can see presenting very well as a woman.

You mentioned that some of the CD threads may be not very interesting and repetitive, you have been here since 2013. I check them all out, but only skim thru most. Read and post to whatever areas you enjoy. If it is in the TS area, I say go for it, you may find some of it boring also.

[Tiffany Jane]

Are you happy with how you feel and what you see in the mirror represent that?

There's a label for that.

You are just being you.

Anything more than that becomes a web of gender, sensual, sexuality, and public opinion confusion.

Just be you.

TJ

[Nadine Spirit]

I am comfortable enough with being TG, I suppose what I am kind of seeking is others opinions/views/observations on me, that may indicate that maybe I am missing things. Sometimes I tend to be the type of person that needs to be smacked in the head with the frying pan before I even realize the bacon is cooking. So I thought maybe I would solicit the opinion of others

And..... I do constantly roll things over and over in my head. As I said, sometimes I miss the obvious, and I don't really like that. So.... maybe I am just kind of checking with others..... maybe it is more obvious to others than to me.

Oh - and thanks for the complements, yes my avatar is me while fully dressed.

The thoughts about the repetitive threads come from others who have posted to this thread. Originally I mentioned that I find the CD threads to be increasingly irritating. This thread is really about just asking, is my irritation due to not actually belonging to that group. Like, maybe if I was a CD, then I would be thrilled by those threads, I'd jump at the chance to discuss what panties I am wearing, I would be super helpful in offering advice on how to hide evidence of your "hobby," I'd never encourage anyone to ever divulge their dirty little "sexual kink."

Honestly - even in trying to be sarcastic about those topics makes me feel a bit ill inside. I just don't get how anyone can treat their gender variances with such a flippant attitude as to reference it as a hobby. - See here I go again, maybe because I don't see it the way that apparently so many other do, maybe that in and of itself suggests something to me that I just don't want to see.

Okay, I'm babbling again.... sorry!




all i can think of is that you go to the pool in a bikini bottom...

Well, granted it was Vegas, and what happens in Vegas....


Oh and lastly - yeah I have been considering getting a professional opinion. My area is quite rural, but I am sure I could find someone, it is Cali after all. There has to be somebody around here.

[ReineD]

Like, maybe if I was a CD, then I would be thrilled by those threads, I'd jump at the chance to discuss what panties I am wearing, I would be super helpful in offering advice on how to hide evidence of your "hobby," I'd never encourage anyone to ever divulge their dirty little "sexual kink."

Yeah, but there's a time element involved here too. I've seen members join and be into all these threads when they are just starting out with the CDing, only to get past them after they've been here for awhile, have come out to their wives, have begun to go out in public, etc. Even my own SO participated in makeup threads, etc, in the beginning.

It's just like newbie CDs who come here convinced that they look better than women when they are dressed, or that their wives don't approve because the wives are downright jealous of how much more gorgeous the husbands look while dressed. Or that GGs feel that CDers threaten their femininity. Or newbies who believe in the existence of gendered activities (women cook and do housework while men drink beer and fix cars). lol. And then after a while, these newbies do gain a more realistic outlook after they get over their Pink Fogs.

[Nadine Spirit]

Yeah I get you, but do you remember how upsetting my arrival was on these boards? Maybe you don't. I seem to have always been a thorn in people's sides. Thus my avatar nickname "Little Mrs. Snarky."

I never have identified with the threads you mentioned. In fact they have always seemed absurd to me. How could anyone ever think those things?

[ReineD]

Nadine, when you joined here, you had been CDing regularly for years. You weren't really a newbie.

Also, you already knew that gender can be fluid. A lot of our members come from areas where there are more conservative views and they've grown up thinking it was wrong for men to dress. They needed time to get past that. So a person's background (family upbringing, places they've lived, their education, their general exposure to more LGBT-friendly areas, etc) in addition to the degree of freedom they have at home with spouses, has a lot to do with the type of things they're interested in when they first begin to accept this side of themselves. But as they grow in their awareness and confidence and cease being interested in the types of threads you describe, this does not mean they are TS.

Some people can come to the realization they are TS, of course, but generally not. My SO's behaviors and attitudes are similar to yours and my SO has no desire to transition.

That said, the decision as to whether or not you are TS is yours to make. I'm rather pointing out that the path from being a closeted newbie who hasn't examined pre-conceived, stereotypical beliefs about gender, to a confident person who accepts the CDing, is not linked to transsexualism for most CDers.

[Badtranny]

Nobody knows. Most of us here don't care.

If you live your life as a dude and crossdress in private, that is literally the definition of a crossdresser.

If you're out to everyone as a crossdresser then you are openly gender fluid. In the year before my transition I went to a few events where I knew there would be some people from my professional life. I was openly transitioning after all. I was out, I just wasn't transitioned.

What's a TS? Who knows. The only real measure is the transition. Nobody goes through the pain of transition unless they are escaping some greater pain.

Just be whoever you are. Tell us about it, be proud, have fun, but be honest.

[Rogina B]

all i can think of is that you go to the pool in a bikini bottom...

To me,this and most stuff on Nadine's list can be taken as "being edgey" or "a reactionist" or "let's give them something to talk about"..I believe that if your female spirit wants out,then "selective exposure" and "hinting" don't cut it. What others think doesn't matter as this inner person wants out. For some of us,living openly has eliminated conflict and turmoil from it. Everyone's needs are different.

[Angela Campbell]

When I first came to this forum, I was not planning to transition. I always knew i was female but was sure I could never do anything about it. I was crossdressing and beginning to go out in public. I came here to get tips on how to improve my appearance. I found plenty.

I rarely ventured into the ts section because I was terrified that I was slowly moving towards transition, the people there were serious. Stern, unforgiving if you said the wrong thing, or didn't know much about transition. ( Or not doing things the "right" way). I stayed in the cd section for a while. The stories told of underdressing, going out for midnight rides, and such were interesting to me then. Beard cover, padding hips and wigs was good information for me.

Then as I began to transition these conversations began to have less intrest to me than the ones about hormones, name changes and surgeries did. Then the cd forum was of less interest to me. What color my panties were was not important when I was dealing with major life changes. The cd side appeared to me to be more about fun and excitement, while the ts section was about survival.

[I Am Paula]

Angela! I won't tell you again. Stop using MY life story.

[Nadine Spirit]

If you're out to everyone as a crossdresser then you are openly gender fluid.

... but be honest.

Yeah, I kindly disagree with your definition of gender fluid. But regardless, I do not identify with considering myself as gender fluid. Nothing about my gender fluctuates from day to day. What does change, is how I choose to present. My gender though is quite static.



To me,this and most stuff on Nadine's list can be taken as "being edgey" or "a reactionist" or "let's give them something to talk about"..

Cute. Yeah, that's what I am interested in, giving other's something to talk about. Funny how that is the exact same reaction I got when I showed up at my friend's engagement party with pink finger nail polish on. My friend didn't care, but her aunt was convinced that I did it to get a reaction out of people. Interesting how some people view other's gender expressions.

You know - it was also not seen as edgy when I had a coworker complain about my gender expression and begin to talk crap about me to my other coworkers, and I had to go to upper management and explain my TG status.

Your description of how you view my gender expression is belittling, just as many cisgender folks have been.


The cd side appeared to me to be more about fun and excitement, while the ts section was about survival.

That is an important difference to take note of. But ss it possible that there are those who transitioned or are transitioning, simply because they want to, and it does not involve huge amounts of pain, discomfort, ostracism, life upheaval, etc? Is it possible that there are some out there that transitioned because to them it was about fun and excitement? I think possibly.

As well..... isn't it possible to transition from either male or female, into something that is neither or both? Maybe that is what this thread is really about????

I mean, I can clearly see a difference between me and the average CD. And the average CD sees a difference between me and them. And obviously, I can see a clear difference between those of you who are transitioning or who have transitioned and me, and as well, many of you see a clear difference between me and you.

[Angela Campbell]

Well this part of the forum is about transexual experience and topics. I have no idea what it's like for gender fluid or a crossdresser who wants to transition for excitement.

I assure you that transition is not fun and exciting. We changed our lives and cannot hide. We go through intense pain and humiliation, and some of us lose everything.

[Nadine Spirit]

I didn't suggest that it was fun or exciting. I just asked if it was possible. Clearly you believe that it is not. Thanks for your opinion.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Y

I mean, I can clearly see a difference between me and the average CD. And the average CD sees a difference between me and them. And obviously, I can see a clear difference between those of you who are transitioning or who have transitioned and me, and as well, many of you see a clear difference between me and you.

reading about bikini bottoms feels exactly the same to me as what color panties are you wearing..

one of the interesting dynamics is that when cd's say "im kind of ts" or "maybe im ts"... i analyze that and think that is another form of crossdressing...another way to express a female side, and frankly i can guess it feels like a very achievable thing which must make it feel good..thats what i think about when you casually assume some people transition for fun....so much fun to be a girl..

stepping back from it, the theme of the OP is actually pretty repetitive around here and the follow on discussion is more of the same..kind of ironic..

and fwiw...if you held a gun to my head, i'd say you are gonna transition someday and look back and wonder wtf you were going on about.

[Megan G]

But ss it possible that there are those who transitioned or are transitioning, simply because they want to, and it does not involve huge amounts of pain, discomfort, ostracism, life upheaval, etc? Is it possible that there are some out there that transitioned because to them it was about fun and excitement?.

This is just my opinion but yes I suppose it is possible that someone may have began to transition because they thought it would be fun or exciting but I can guarantee you one thing... They did not find it all fun and exciting for long once they truly experienced what it is like to truly transition...

I would bet anyone that started transition for those reasons would most likely quit once shit started to get real....

[Angela Campbell]

In truth transition as defined in the sticky, meaning to full time never presenting as a man, not androgenous but complete. ...without the pain, humiliation, life upheavals. ......hmmmm never met anyone who did it.

Guess it's possible.

[Nadine Spirit]

reading about bikini bottoms feels exactly the same to me as what color panties are you wearing..

...thats what i think about when you casually assume some people transition for fun....so much fun to be a girl..

Hmm... lets see here, why did I happen to mention bikini bottoms.... could it be because someone asked what exactly I meant by gender non-conforming? Uh... yeah. Not because I started some thread to have people read about my "edgy" adventure, parading about in a bikini.

Oh, and yeah, I never assumed some people transition for fun. I simply asked if it was possible.

But hey, thanks for the constructive thoughts.

Clearly, this thread is just getting more folks annoyed with me.

So sorry for bothering some of you.

I do appreciate those of you who can discuss things and help some of us figure some things out better through constructive dialogue. I was simply hoping that some of you with far more experience could help me with your knowledge.

[Rianna Humble]

This thread has slowly defined itself as having nothing to do with the purpose of the TS forum.
Say good night, thread!