Depression and isolation in light of recent events

[PaulaQ]

(Please don't talk in detail about anti-trans legislation, this isn't the forum for it, and details of it aren't really on topic in this thread.)

I just had a person leave my support group because they felt that as a non-hormone, non-op, non-fulltime, trans person, maybe even as "just a CD", that THEY are part of the reason some of these current tactics are being employed against all trans people. They felt guilty that they could avoid sanction by a mere change of clothing. Although laws haven't been passed here, we are all expecting a big fight over this next year. They felt responsible, they felt awful, and they seem to be abandoning their gender expression and involvement in the community. Prior to this, they were extremely active and appeared in public with great frequency.

I just want to tell all of you who might feel the same way, and for whom the characterization some of these VILE people put out about "men in a dress" might hit really close to home, that this isn't your fault. It isn't. Sure, you aren't fulltime. Maybe you never ever ever intend to take a single hormone. It's still not your fault, and your right to gender expression, and your unique gender identity are no less valid than mine. You have a right to present as you do, en femme, in public. You have a right to be safe using public restrooms, and for many, that means using the women's restroom while en femme. You are not now, nor have you ever been, the awful things they call us. (And neither am I!)

For what it's worth, neither I, nor many others of us in the trans activist community, will ignore your rights in favor of our own. We will fight, and we are not going to settle for some "compromise" that only helps those of us who are in an intensely medical type of transition. At least I'm not settling for that. And I can tell you, I will call onto the carpet with the most venomous words I have, any trans person who tries to police your identities. Because in my opinion, we are all in this together. Nobody gets left behind.

I'd encourage people here who are troubled now, or who may become troubled in the coming months as these events unfold, to seek counseling and support, even if it has to be done in secret. Having you closeted, isolate, terrified, and alone is what they want.

My question, for people on the forum, is how do you feel about the current spate of anti-trans (and anti-LGBT) action happening in various places around the US now? Have recent events started to affect your feelings about your dressing, or about going out in public, or maybe even made coming out seem like maybe not such a good idea at the moment? Again, please don't comment on the specifics in any place - this is about how you are feeling about the effects, whatever they may be, current events are having on you as a CD, TS, or other gender expansive person, and how you feel about them.

[grace7777]

I do not feel good about the anti trans legislation that has been passed and is being proposed in the United States. Now these events have not effected me in my life, and I am still living my life as a woman as much as I can. One reason my life has not been affected is I am living in California where trans people are protected by law, so I do not have as many worries as I might have in other places. I view myself as being TG/TS.

[Aligirl]

I definitely haven't been feeling good about it. But I'm going to keep doing what I've been doing. I will say this though, it has definitely shown me who is safe and who isn't to come out to. Which was more people than I thought... I've blocked so many pages on Facebook for their anti trans pictures and comments. Even reported a few that were really bad...

[Sandra]

Please do not start discussing any kind of politics in relation to the OPs post, anyone who does will have their posts deleted.

[Robin414]

Wow, great post Paula! Honestly, all the talk about anti LGBT stuff makes me want more and more to go out wearing a dress (ok, so I don't wear dresses...skinny jeans, nice top, and a bra) and give a boost to a stranded motorist or shovel a senior citizens side walk or mow their lawn.

I'm in the mind set that we need to demonstrate to the masses that we're actually really the wonderful people that we are!

[JayeLefaye]

It hurts, Paula, it just hurts....

Good news came in yesterday though, from Virginia:-)

There's still hope in this marathon we're running!

Jaye

[mykell]

hi paula,
just to start if you havnt seen this,
http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?238743-backlash-against-a-North-Carolina-LGBT-law

so yes it does have an effect on me and i have been following it closely, i wrote of it in a few threads now, the lawmakers pushing these type laws and folks who write some fairly vile responses to some of the online articles highlighting these events to be honest have me second guessing where i go.

im so sorry that this person somehow felt at blame for the current events and i hope that you may coerce them back into attendance.

i have an open thread about my trip to support monday "the 400lb pink elephant in the room" its a family & friends group so i went as far as to ask what some of the ladies attending felt, overall supportive but its a ally group...lots in attendance this particular night especially considering how nice the weather was and it ran way overtime, first thing i did when i left was go to the washroom to relieve myself, i used the one the had a person wearing a dress on it.

what i dislike the most is how they use this to further polarize us and vilify us, they use the pretense of making theyre family members feel safer while at the same time not realizing that we also have friends and family that they make uncomfortable for being associated to us.
these laws are never going to stop predators, they will do what they feel is right to do what they do but to instill fear on the population that we are the reason they will have access is worrisome.

in my group the last thing that a trans person wants to do is undress in front of a group of theyre peers in a lockeroom as theyre body does not conform to what they feel is right.

streakers, flashers, and molesters exist and are dealt with when they are caught but it is pure insanity that by posting bathroom regulations will keep these folk and offenses a bay.

so yes it hurts and i feel they will continue to pust it.

[Allisa]

Depressed? no, saddened yes. Isolated? no, I will never go back into hiding no matter what. I can remember many years ago when I first went out dressed I could have been arrested just for being in the clothes of the opposite gender(known as sex back then). I feel that now more than ever I must be seen so that the message of CD/TG people will not be legislated into oblivion. You know all that male training we had as children? must now be used as obstinacy for our cause of acceptance. Have to stop now, my anger is rising, I rage against the light of injustice.

[Tommie.]

I agree this is all disturbing... I am hopeful it is somehow tied to the election year and will disappear in 2017... wishful thinking at best.

[I Am Paula]

Tommie- Don't count on it. The last batch of bigotry lasted from 1776 to present. More than a few elections.

[JanePeterson]

Discussed in another thread on the TS forum, but I have had some serious anxiety about going out in my area... Specifically with regards to my safety in the restroom. I already have lots of good reasons to stay home, but the climate here is one of anger and it's scary.

[Amy Fakley]

Yeah, I relate to where the person from your support group is coming from, because I too am beginning to take tentative steps to get out in the real world as my real self.

It's hard enough to put the idea of "pitchforks and torches" put of your mind when you step out the door. Now I'm wondering if putting that fear out of my mind is actually a rational thing to do. Just abut every elected official within a 200 mile radius of me is painting a target on my back.

A literal target on my back, because while there is occasional nuance in the discussion regarding transitioned TS people, there is almost always the universal condemnation of crossdressers. And they won't shut up about it ... my Facebook feed is full of hateful memes, every tv I walk past is blasting fox news ... and there's a good chance they're busy throwing me under the bus. Me and my kind are apparently public enemy number 1 this election year.

Can I just dress down, try to blend, and mind my own business at the mall, or have the talking heads created a swarm of paranoid, fearful folks on high alert for people like me? And how is that going to go down when they finally find one (me)?

Yeah. It's depressing, and it hurts.

It's hard to discuss this situation, without discussing the politics that have given rise to it. But I have tried.

[Kimberly2112]

I'm cautiously optimistic that the backlash is a sign that the haters are losing the war, they know it, and they're getting desperate. It's certainly going to last longer than one election season, although the usual election hype isn't helping. It seems that younger generations are more accepting, most of the haters will eventually die off and in twenty years or so we may wonder what all the fuss was about. Too bad I might not be around to enjoy it.

[barbara gordon]

I think there are a lot of points to respond to in the original post .

I am a CrossDresser . I consider myself to be mix-gendered and trans-gendered.
I love to present and live as a woman AND to present and live as a man . its only in recent recent years that i have begun to feel more confident in my self acceptance and lifestyle . Partly because I think so many others feel more comfortable with more diversity .
I think that despite the recent hateful new laws and moods around the country , we do in fact live in the most liberal times for acceptance of LGBT people. T people especially - we are having our time to be recognized. How can we expect it to be easy ?



I Have mixed feelings about recent anti LGBT actions , rulings ,and moods .
yes it is disturbing , but there is great hope because the conversation about all of this is loud and up front with so many more "ordinary" people in our country than at any time in the past . . The idea of any of us being silenced- is over . I think that there will continue to be backlash against the backlash ... Unfair rules will be overturned.


as JayeLefaye points out , a critical action in our favor happened just this week .

It hurts, Paula, it just hurts....

Good news came in yesterday though, from Virginia:-)

There's still hope in this marathon we're running!

Jaye

.....the good news is that a federal appeals court got involved and voted favorably for trans gendered students to be inluded in the protection of federal article IX. This means that its ok to use the bathroom :0) for now , but also it will mean much more as a legal first.

[Tracii G]

With all that is going on right now I feel targeted too to some extent.
This is such a hot topic it has brought out the haters in droves and making our lives more in danger.
I'm a hard head so its not going to change the way I do things or present in public.
By getting out there and showing we belong in this world too is what I'm going to do.
They just want to install fear in us and I'm not going to play their game.

[JayeLefaye]

...".....the good news is that a federal appeals court got involved and voted favorably for trans gendered students to be inluded in the protection of federal article IX. This means that its ok to use the bathroom :0) for now , but also it will mean much more as a legal first."

This is the same court that the NC appeals will be heard in. As a resident of Raleigh, yes!!!!

Jaye

[Rachael Leigh]

Paula being somewhat a conservative person in general all of this has been difficult for me to look at but when it comes right down to it because of my own understanding of being out I feel its just been such a silly argument to think that those of us that just crossdress can be labeled as predators Ive said many times there probably isnt one among us who would not protect a child from anyone wanting to do harm to them.
As for me to stop going out just because I,m labeled as different, no I wont I feel it would put to many back into a closet that just hurts to be in.
Yes I have sympathy to some of the arguments on a man being in a womens room but mostly those who have ventured out and had to use the restroom we all just want to be left alone do our business and get out, is it a right Im not sure but is it safer for those who are presenting as a women yes I feel it is indeed. Protect the children at all cost but we also should have that right.

[Teresa]

Paula, I can't comment directly because it doesn't affect me in the UK but I will still follow it with interest, very often what happens in the US often catches on here . I would be saddened, when I've spent so long in solitary confinement going back to that would be hard.

Pauls thanks for taking on the battle it has to be won, the clock shouldn't be allowed to travel backwards !

[Billiejosehine]

Great post and well said Paula. I came out and started my journey/transition back in late 2013. And since then I have become highly active in the LGBTQ community. I currently work as a community services director for an LGBTQ resource center and sit on the bord for an aids coalition in my area. And while I am somewhat fortunate to live in the SF/Bay Area. I still have had my fair share of personal experiences and seen things happen to those I know. The things I have experienved and seen have made me question myself at times, to the point of giving up (taking my own life); as it would be eaiser to do. But then my community will lose a voice willing to have a target on their back and speak up for those that can't. Especially our youth, who are the most vulenerable. It's hard and...really...frustrating to believe and see the ignorance amoung those that don't understand anything about the trans community. How they would rather create laws and policies allowing legal discrimination on the premise of religious freedom. They spend more time spreading hate then taking the time to understand something truly amazing about our human experience/existance. So, it's no wonder some want to give up, stay in hiding, not speak up, or leave the trans community behind once they transition. And why the mortality rate is so high. Our journey/walk of life, no matter where you are in the trans/gender non conforming spectrum; is not an easy one. We face so much everyday. Even though we make up such a small percentage of the population. There's still so much to be done.

[Rhonda Jean]

Legislation aside, there's just a lot more trans awareness than ever before. People seem to have taken a side. Until a few years ago, I was probably the only trans person that most all of the people I encountered had ever seen. I think that a lot of them made a judgement about trans people in general based on how I impressed them at that moment. Now, everybody I encounter has a predisposed opinion. I probably don't notice those who've become more comfortable than they were before. I notice those who've been pushed further toward the negative. I do feel it, even though I'd be hard pressed to cite any particular incident. It's a vibe thing.

I so rarely use public restrooms that the restroom thing is not specifically a big problem for me. I'm not as comfortable using the ladies room as I used to be, though. Part of that is my increased paranoia in general, and the unpleasant fact that I don't pass as well as I used to. I do feel that going out is generally more dangerous than it used to be. Just a feeling, though. Also, for everybody who thinks that being gay is no issue anymore... think again! In fairness, I don't know what it was like to be gay prior to even a few years ago. I'm certain it was hell, though. Like it or not, to the masses trans and gay are almost synonymous.

As far as having legal protection... I'll grant that it's better than not having legal protection, but passing a law doesn't change anybody's prejudices. Anybody who hates us prior to legislative (or workplace) protection hates us just as much (or more) afterward.

[Tina_gm]

I am not a public dresser for several reasons, and now I have yet another... It is all my choice, I am not one who says "I can't" about any feminine expression. I would like to say that generally I feel embarrassed that the good ol US of A is this far behind most of the rest of the world.... And that we seem to care more about who is in a bathroom than about so much else that is really of much greater importance. And, it is not some society problem, like drug addiction, or suicide from bullying etc etc. Before the bathroom nonsense, there was never any talk from either men or women about the horrible trans people in a bathroom. Yet, we have been in public for quite a while now.

I feel a sense of the powers that be basically making it all the more difficult, perhaps embarrassing for us to be in public, by shaming us. Stay inside in your home, stay in your little closet. They will kick you out of the women's room, and make you soo uncomfortable in the men's room, or worse.

Of course there are those who know absolutely nothing about how TG people are.... and for that matter sexual predators. Who disguise themselves as anyone else, with as little attention drawn to them, because that is how to best fool someone into whatever it is you want from them, or to do to them. The ridiculous fears of now all these predator men are simply going to say they are TG (without even dressing up) or will dress up and go into the women's restrooms.... which either way puts a big old bulls eye on their head.


I found this https://youtu.be/CHt7EBCgJnI

And this shows how ridiculous it all is. Transgender approved?? by who? seriously? conversation is beyond awkward, forced.... And the answers.... like one where HE said, I have been transgender for a couple of days now.... REALLY?? !!!!! And of course, mostly negative reactions.

Now, what should be noted here is not how ridiculous this video is, obviously intended to get the responses that were mostly got. It is the many comments below. And why we need to still be very mindful about what's going on out there. Still a whole lot of negativity about trans anything, and this new batch of law is intended to shame those who are transgender, and it is also IMO, to stoke those negative embers up into a full fledged firestorm.

[Nikkilovesdresses]

It's a setback, but to paraphrase Kimberley, it is a downward blip on an otherwise steadily upward trajectory.

Please don't despair, and please don't take stupid chances with your safety either.

[Alice Torn]

At least, in America, there is open talk, and reasoning, on both sides somewhat. In many countries, we would be in bigger trouble than here. I have not used a multi stall womens room yet. I use single use locking bathrooms, or unisex.It is sad, to see so much fighting all the time, though.

[phylis anne]

@alice torn,
yes indeed you are right in some countries you could be imprisioned for it or worse and no body would helpp you ,due to being persecuted by the fact you know these people.
hugs phylis anne

- - - Updated - - -

Here is a thought ,
seems on this site we have seaprated everything except the politics ,instead of putting posts in the general c/d section why could'nt the moderators create a new page for this type of content for those that really do feel the need to discuss this type of issue ? Now I know politics in general can get to be a real heated item ,but I think people could make it work using the existing page rules modified as needed to define the subject rules
hugs phylis anne

[OCCarly]

I felt the same way until yesterday. Yesterday evening I went for gender therapy orientation at Kaiser, and I ended up being the oldest person in a room full of millennial transkids, all 18-25 years old, several of whom were already on hormones, all of whom were presenting fully in their preferred gender, and none of whom had any insecurities about it. Wow, what an experience. And after it was over they just walked out the door and went about their business. No covert changing in the car, no nothing. Just being themselves. Wow.

So afterward, wife took me shopping at Burlington Coat Factory. I walked in there dressed as I was for the meeting, in Aeropostale jeggings and women's t shirt, carrying my Coach messenger bag, wearing Fila espadrilles on my feet. No wig or makeup, and guy glasses. No one batted an eye. No one noticed. The world did not end. But a wonderful young sales assistant approached me while I was looking at skinny jeans in the junior miss section (while my wife was in the changing room) and smiled and asked me if I needed any help.

Forget about the haters. They are a loud, rude, vocal, fearmongering minority, and they are losing, and they know they are. Yes, while shopping in drab, I've gotten a couple of looks from some older women. But based on what the young folks are doing, I have a lot of hope for the future.

[PattyT]

I don't care at all about the negative legistlation. It is pure nonsense. No government is going to tell me I cannot do something that is not immoral and does not harm the people around me at all. Crossdressing is a completely personal matter as is TG. The government has no right at all to meddle with these factors. My feelings towards crossdressing remain the same. Although I live in Japan where this type of legislation would probably be unheard of, I am an American citizen and follow events in the US.
It is wrong to assume that the US or other democracies will always remain democratic and free. Democracy depends on the attitude of the people and their willingness to protest when necessary.

[Genny B]

This is a great thread! I'm 'just a cd'. I'm older and if the world of today existed 20 years ago, I would of transitioned full time. But also, I adjusted to life without giving up on it and made a life for myself. But I still enjoy that occasional escape where I can be a woman for a few hours. And I am very happy for those few hours. I'm going out this Saturday and have looked forward to it for weeks! But I will not use the bathroom while out. i'm deadly afraid. I will stay out as late as I can and then go home and run to my bathroom. I work in a very strong male ego environment and have to be careful of what I say, but I try to support our world. It's so hard, but I can't just sit there and not try to support us. But I'm sure many would say i am weak and do not really belong to this group. That''s alright. I'm used to it now. Love to all my sisters!

Genny B

[Leighcdmd]

I think that there are a few things that we should keep in mind when considering this recent spate of legislation and, more importantly, how one might react to it. It's an election year, and a truly crazy one at that. By and large, these initiatives are designed to pander to the Christian right, and, for the most part, are restricted to right leaning, largely Southern states. The laws, in and of themselves, will have scant impact on how transgendered people will be treated in those states or within the Nation at large. The trope that is employed by the proponents of these bills is that they are necessary to protect women from the imaginary threat of the sex crazed "guy in a dress" using the ladies room as his hunting grounds. The reality is that these legislative initiatives and indeed even pro TG rights initiatives will have a negligible impact on how people actually think and feel. TG people having been using their preferred public accommodations largely unnoticed for many years.....and they will continue to do so. Why? Because, for the most part, they have done so in a discrete and low key fashion. This flap will fade away.....until the next one. The overwhelming majority of Americans are too absorbed with the challenges of simply living their daily lives to even think about these issues much less even care. Bigots will always be bigots and our community needs to not overreact to them and to simply do what we have always done - go about our lives in a calm and discrete manner.

[JasmeVee]

I'm not to worried about all the fighting in regards to the issue, its just the new thing to hate/like for a bit much like earlier civil rights movements, womans voting rights, black/white weddings etc etc
It all changes, slowly
The bonus being seeing peoples real feelings on it, educate and purge being my motto
I also dont understand the tight grip on discussion about it here, are we better served with "what color are your panties right now?"
No

[barbara gordon]

This thread is so great . So many great ideas . I think These issues are critical for so many crossdressers. I hope this thread stays active for a long while .

[flatlander_48]

a non-hormone, non-op, non-fulltime, trans person

That is essentially my demographic. Fortunately it isn't necessary for me to be DeeAnn or Don all the time. It's basically the same book, but the cover changes from time to time.


My question, for people on the forum, is how do you feel about the current spate of anti-trans (and anti-LGBT) action happening in various places around the US now?

The timing is SO obvious. Transgender folks have probably been around for centuries and the first reassignment surgeries go back to the early 30's. So, the question is why didn't this wave of legislation happen 10 years ago or 25? I think the suggestion that many are pissed because the lesbians and gays got the curve ball past them with Marriage Equality is dead on. In view of that loss, we're the next target and perhaps perceived to be an easy one given the degree of confusion and misinformation, in the population at large, about us.

Similar to how images of drag queens taken during Pride events are put in front of the public for negative shock value, don't be surprised if images of the least pulled together of us start showing up on web sites and other media. It is how scare tactics work.

One point that people often forget about anti-discrimination statutes is that they actually protect everyone, and not just the named group. In the case of protections for LGBT folks, those who are PERCEIVED as LGBT are also protected and that could be anyone. In terms of the current restroom legislation, I t is possible for genetic women who look more towards androgynous and dressed somewhat male-like could be challenged. That could be our wives, sisters or daughters. Note that this has already happened. This can also happen to legitimate trans women. Now all of your documentation may be changed, but is this something you really want to get asked in front of cis-female friends? Being in stealth mode won't necessarily protect you. You can say that your presentation looks completely appropriate, but that's logic and NONE of this is logical. And what of the folks who live in Tennessee (I believe) who cannot change the gender markers on their state-issued documents?


Have recent events started to affect your feelings about your dressing, or about going out in public, or maybe even made coming out seem like maybe not such a good idea at the moment?

So far, no change. The reason I hung out with groups that were 50 and 99 miles from Corning, NY was that I didn't want to run into someone I knew. Further, if there were any restroom hassles, at least I wouldn't be close to home.

In the course of 23 years there, I met a lot of people and news TRAVELS. However, last October was the turning point for me when I came out to over 200 people, including about 130 while dressed. The total included several close friends, my then department manager and my daughter and son. I believe that coming out when I did was good timing and I don't see any difference in the climate as far as timing goes. If there were any negative repercussions, and I'm not aware of any, I also knew that I was retiring at the end of January and moving away.

Since I moved in February, I'm now about 1300 miles from my brother in Dallas and over 2000 to everyone else. Over the last 14 months before I left Corning, I was going out dressed 2 to 4 times a month. Only once did I leave my house to get dressed somewhere else, so I wasn't exactly hiding. And while DeeAnn is not on social media, I have the same username on Crossdressing, LGBT, motorsports and cycling web sites. The only place I am not flatlander_48 (with or without the _ ) is on FetLife, so if one wanted to connect the dots, it wouldn't be too difficult. While being wary of any cretins that may be walking about, this area does have a sizable LGB population and the T population is growing. This was a significant factor in deciding to move here. That is not to say that shit doesn't happen here, but there is a lot of community support. A couple of years ago, the mayor estimated the population of Palm Springs to be about 1/3 gay. So that, plus folks who live in the other 8 or so adjacent towns, makes for a significant population.

Recently I had a conversation with a trans woman who has been very active in the community for some years. She asked about my interests and what kinds of things I had been involved with previously. Among other things, I mentioned that I've been a car guy and a motorsports fan since childhood and she said that there was a car club in the community. Further, if I joined, my presence would counter some stereotypes that folks had. To me that's funny and sad at the same time. We know from various threads here that many are significantly involved with cars, motorcycles and even aircraft. This also serves as a reminder that not all of our issues are without, as some of them are clearly within.

DeeAnn

[PaulaQ]

I want to thank everyone for avoiding, mostly, political discussion. Just keep it about feelings and we'll be ok in this thread.

I do want to tell you that the calls to the trans lifeline have doubled since these issues became part of the national discussions. I can also say anecdotally that I've seen a surge in people who badly need emotional support, as has every other person who supports trans people with whom I've spoken. Depression, anxiety, suicide attempts.

It's like an evil spell has been cast, harming people outside of its direct area of effect. I guess in a sense it is an evil spell, and its name is "dehumanization."

[JasmeVee]

It is encouraging however to see the change as it happens, like espn making a stand against that hatred

[flatlander_48]

It is a powerful thing when businesses join Amicus Briefs, write letters to state governments, etc. What they realize is that when LGBT folks turn down transfers to places that lack protections or have repressive laws, EVERYBODY loses.

DeeAnn

[heatherdress]

No - I do not feel depressed or isolated. Nothing has changed.

[Amanda M]

Paula. Thank you so much for that. I know the "just a CD" feeling. More power to you.

[TinaZ]

Thank you for this thread, Paula. Sincerely, I needed to hear your message.

[Claire Cook]

Yes, Paula, thank you so much for starting this, and for your support and encouragement. Sometimes I think that we who are not transitioning and are not full-time are sort of looked down on by those of you who have, so your comments mean a lot. In terms of your question: yes, it saddens me that there is this anti-LBGT sentiment out there, but I hope this is just a vocal minority. Will it stop me from being me and going out when I want to? Absolutely not. What it does is make me value my friends who accept and encourage me all the more.

And if I am on the interstate in one of those states, I'll still use the rest area restroom appropriate for my presentation....

[erickka]

My therapist works with teens and adults like us . She is a little put off by all of this, and so am I. I don't understand why for every step forward that is taken, then they (our wonderful elected officials ) take three steps back. COME ON people, this is the 21st century, lets get with the program and deal with the real problems in the world and let people be themselves.

[Mayo]

As an occasional in-private-only CD, this sort of thing doesn't affect me directly (though, as a hairy-guy-in-a-dress, I wish I could go out in public without fear and shame), but the amount of vile hatred it demonstrates just disgusts me. As I commented in another thread, the thought of even going into the US these days makes my skin crawl. I'm glad there are voices of reason, and in the end they will win, but that's a generation down the road and more people will be killed as a result of it in the mean time.

[Stephanie47]

I just a plain vanilla in-home cross-dresser who does not feel the necessity of venturing out into the world because that's not my gig. Cross-dressing is a private affair. That being said I have a friend whose grandson is going through turmoil of figuring out his sexual identity. My wife has a cousin whose daughter is transitioning surgically to a man. I do live in a state where the legislation is all positive, although all this bathroom talk locally does appear. It is starting to really bug the shit out of me that people are so ****ing lame as to cast negative comments like confetti on subjects they have absolutely no knowledge.

Last night at dinner my wife said to me she thought my viewpoints were becoming more "liberal" because I am vocalizing more and more about transgender issues. I told her this is not a liberal issue. As someone who is somewhat conservative, especially when it comes to fiscal issues, a conservative really wants the government out of peoples lives. The government really should have no stake in who marries who. I railed out against these folks who are demonstrating their innate hostility towards transgender men and women using "perverts invading" the bathrooms (Ted Cruz) when one could raise the issue of plain old modesty..i.e., not wanting their young daughters seeing anyone's male genitals in a woman's locker room. I told her that may be a legitimate issue to resolve, not equating transgender men/women to perverts.

So, has it affected me or caused me to change something about me.... yes, I'll be in your face if you are going to act espouse hatred toward anyone.

[ChristinaK]

This really is a great thread; many different thoughts about it. We used to be pretty much off the radar for most people and probably still are. In the past, people would look at me, or through me, not even contemplating who I was or my gender. Due to MY perception, now I feel more at odds with the people around me; paranoid about people now paying attention where they didn't in the past. I don't think that's a rational feeling, but I can't help the way I feel now. We have been spotlighted and it has affected the way I feel when I go out. That being said, nobody has seemed to pay more attention than usual.

I have to use the bathroom a lot; can't help it. So, I've used multi-stall bathrooms many times and only once did a woman really eye me critically, not in a hostile manner, but she was my height with broad shoulders, hmmm. However, now that I feel we're being scrutinized, it makes me more nervous to use the Ladies Room. That's a shame. I don't think there will be any issues as most people just mind their own business and won't want to ask us for our "transgender card" to see if we're allowed or not, but just being the topic of discussion makes me nervous.

My sister and wife are totally against TG's using the wrong restroom. We're perverts. Young girls will be molested or worse! Couldn't that happen now? What's to keep a pervert from doing that now? Well, when it's legal, you'll see it all the time! I don't think this issue is going away in the near future and I think the legal arguments are going to the top in some states. If we do have to carry a card, I don't think anyone would ever ask for it, so those of us that don't carry a card don't have to worry about it.

Now, even in a very liberal state they are attempting to get the issue on a ballot so the voters themselves can decide the issue. Given the attitude of most people I've talked to about it, we're in for trouble. If they make it strictly illegal for us to use the Ladies Room, I guess I'm in for a rough time as I will still use the Ladies Room. There's no way Christina is going to use the Men's Room fully dressed. Talk about a safety issue, there's one.

I kind of wish they had left the sleeping dog lye on the issue.

[Sarah Doepner]

I don't feel isolated or depressed but I am angry and frustrated. This current trend in legislation is resulting in a few things that I find troubling.

First, there are already laws on the books addressing the offenses they are highlighting, so the laws are not about behavior, they are targeting a population which I'm sure is going to be found as unconstitutional.

Second, it has given the haters a boost and encouraged them to voice their opinions, and in many circumstances create their own facts. At the same time those who accept and respect the Trans community are growing in number. This is polarizing the issue and making progress toward common sense, fact-based solutions more difficult. I'd just hate to see this become as intransigent as abortion or wilderness where neither side is either willing or able to compromise on anything.

Finally, and this is on us, as we attempt to refute those who are advocating for those bathroom laws we throw up images of trans people who could be icons of the binary world. For every Andreja or Laverne there are scores (maybe hundreds) of us who aren't even close to that level of feminine beauty. For those of us who struggle to create a presentation that allows us to blend, those images create an expectation of perfection. For both the trans and the straight world that creates a level that is difficult to achieve. I'd like to see more examples and images of crossdressers who are really trying their best or of trans people who aren't all the way through with their transition and aren't perfectly passable in their presentation but are perfectly passable as citizens.

Thank you Paula for starting this thread.

[JayeLefaye]

I’ve already posted a couple of short responses. I kept them short because I wanted to take the necessary time to properly express my more in-depth thoughts before posting them. I will add a P.S. at the end to explain where I’m coming from because I want to keep these comments concise.

I trust Paula to correct anything that I’m now about to write:

It seems to me that Paula, a “Group Leader”, was prompted to start this thread due to this quote of hers:

“I just had a person leave my support group because they felt that as a non-hormone, non-op, non-fulltime, trans person, maybe even as "just a CD", that THEY are part of the reason some of these current tactics are being employed against all trans people.”

That breaks my heart. So here is my suspicion of why that poor soul felt that way: They are a CD. A simple CD….And probably read too many on-line “comments”. While it is informative to read the “news accounts”, the “comments” are mostly vile. And to be honest, even some of the “news” can be discouraging, and not always from the sources that we might initially think.

I read one yesterday from an “LGB” source that said it’s time for the LGB’s to separate themselves from the T’s!!!! And this was not the first time I’ve seen/read/heard this opinion….But I’ll let that go for another thread because I don’t want to sidetrack this one.

But I have also read a couple of comments on this, most Safest of Sites, that said, and I’ll paraphrase: Everything was going fine for us plain old CD’s until someone pushed the boundaries too far and prompted all of these new laws and made it uncomfortable for the rest of us “proper” CD’s.

In other words, all of these laws can be blamed on the initial victim, which is akin to saying:
“It’s not my fault I raped that girl. Did you see how short her skirt was?”

In my very, very, humble opinion, the “CD-only” member of Paula’s Group who dropped out did so because her “skirt was too short” and others were paying the price for it…How skewed is that?!?!?!?!????

I hope HE comes back to the Support Group.

I hope I’m expressing myself properly…XOXOX to ALL!!!!!

Jaye

P.S….I am just a CD, with a fair amount of “Gender-Fluid” tendencies, and live in NC. My wife is a therapist with several LGBTQ clients…A lot has been going on lately…Eventually I truly do believe that the end results will be positive…But along the way, it hurts, it just hurts….

P.P.S....As a helpful hint to several of the responders here....Please scroll down and check out the "Media Forum", where "legal" issues are being dealt with in depth. You won't be sorry, I promise!

[Amy Fakley]

I think what's the worst part of it, that some of us listen to these trumped up criticisms from those in power, and take them to heart. As if we, as a community just "pushed our agenda too far and these entirely reasonable people in the world can't condone it"

That is complete horse crap!

We as a community were minding our own damn business in the bathroom, and had been since forever. Cis-folk have been sharing public facilities with us for their whole lives. There was no spike in 'incidents' that prompted this. As a community, we were not "bullying the majority" on this issue as the apologetic talking heads constantly claim, even in the slightest.

THEY came after US. Viscously, and relentlessly. It's plain as day why ... they needed a new boogeyman to scare up votes in an election year, with zero regard for how that rhetoric will effect innocent, law abiding citizens. None whatsoever. They seek to use me as a pawn in their craven little game of politics.

They are in the wrong. Not us.

I know it's hard. I feel isolated, threatened, and depressed too ... but one thing I absoloutely won't do is internalize these bogus criticisms from these thoughtless thugs running for elected office. They are accomplished used car salesmen at best, and pure evil at worst, and I will never respect their opinions about me and how I live my life, even if they do manage to convince others to do so.

[JayeLefaye]

What Amy said:-)!!!!

Jaye

P.S...On my real-life Facebook page, which I don't visit very often, I've focused on these issues a lot lately, without anyone knowing that I'm a CD.....100% approval for "acceptance" and pissed-offedness against the hate-mongerers....I've receive nothing but positive responses from folks who have no "dog in the fight", but understood a partial quote that I mentioned that begins with "First they came for me"....

Bottom line? There are tons of Muggles out there who understand: "First they came for me"....And those Muggles will defend that quote because they understand what it means....Good for them...:-))))), eh???

Jaye

[PaulaQ]

There are a lot of practical reasons I support the rights of the CD community, and consider your identity and expressions as valid as I consider my own:
1. Most of us who undergo medical transition don't pass at first.
2. Many of us who could pass will only do so with extensive facial surgery that is often beyond our means to obtain
3. For a good number of us, even with that, we still don't pass well
4. Some CDs transition, so discrimination against them is discrimination against trans women
5. The black hats don't distinguish between us anyway

So practically speaking, for an outside observer, there is often little to distinguish someone in medical transition from someone who isn't in medical transition. And very few of us pass when we begin, so if CDs aren't safe in public, most of us can't really safely medically transition either. So our interests are aligned.

All of that is well and good, but it isn't why I support your rights, same as I support my own.

The reason I support your rights is this - it is the only right and moral thing to do!

There are a lot of transsexuals who view themselves as being somehow "better" or "more deserving of rights" than a CD. I think those sentiments are absolutely deplorable and hypocrisy of the worst kind. Who am I to demand respect for MY gender, and then turn around and deny that respect to someone else?

I will be discussing this with my support group next week. I've heard talk I don't like, and I am NOT going to tolerate people bringing in horrible attitudes from the cisgender world. And equating CDs with sex predators us every bit as evil and wrong as calling a TS like me a sexual predator.

To the CDs out there who hear this stuff "we're better than them", or "we're not like those CDs!" from TSs, I apologize on behalf of my community. Some of us, suffering from internalized transphobia and a desire to deflect this horrible stuff away from us at any cost. We fear being seen as pretending to be women. Others resent your "privilege" - you can switch back to boy mode when the going gets tough. These ideas are just wrong headed, and based in fear for the most part.

I know CDs though. I've talked with many of you, I've seen the pain in your eyes, most of you do not have easy lives. Leading a double life, as most of you do is not a privilege. Living in fear of discovery is awful - I know because that was my life for so long. I get it. And so I support y'all too.

[mykell]

great now you went and made me weepy, thanks alot, im not even dressed.

so seriously that has had to be the sweetest thing i have read here in a looooong time,
thank you soo much paula :bighug: !!!!

[JayeLefaye]

You go Paula!!!!

We support, and love ya too!!!!

Thank you, Paula...Seriously...Thank you! Tears are in my eyes as I write this. I hope someone reaches out to your local, individual CD!

Love & Hope

Jaye

Jaye

- - - Updated - - -


great now you went and made me weepy, thanks alot, im not even dressed.

so seriously that has had to be the sweetest thing i have read here in a looooong time,
thank you soo much paula :bighug: !!!!

Oh, Mikell...You are such a softy:-)...Glad you weren't dressed...At least you didn't hafta worry about your make-up running:-)

Jaye(insert knucklebump here)Lefaye

[sometimes_miss]

My question, for people on the forum, is how do you feel about the current spate of anti-trans (and anti-LGBT) action happening in various places around the US now?
I think it's great that we're finally getting a good idea of how many people that hate us are actually out there, and get to see which politicians are the horrible people we always suspected they were. Stuff coming up for votes, these hateful 'representitives of the people' now are showing themselves to all the world for the rotten, lying, bigoted jerks that they are. The down side? We're also having to face how many lunatics in the general population support all those people in power that would happily see us dead. It's one thing to read a random nasty post in a web page thread about lgbt rights; it's another, entirely, to see these elected officials making laws that can intentionally expose us to the wrath of people who want us dead.

[MissTee]

What I have noticed, Paula, is this latest spat of attention is more negative than not. People all around me are talking about the perversion of transgenderism, and of course stirring up the Facebook crowds to sling and share mean spirited anti LGTB posts. So, to your question, if I was contemplating coming out this would definitely have me remain in the closest a little while longer.

[flatlander_48]

To the CDs out there who hear this stuff "we're better than them", or "we're not like those CDs!" from TSs,

Same Shit - Different Day...

As Blacks embraced the idea that dark skin was a good thing during the Civil Rights Movement, a "better than" sentiment was an underlying theme at the expense of lighter skinned Blacks. In other words, they weren't Black enough, physically and mentally. During the Women's Liberation Movement, women were suspect who had good relationships with men or were thought to be too dependent on men. Whether this reflected reality was open to conjecture. In the gay community, bisexuals are often not recognized as a distinct category and are not thought of at the same level of real lesbians or gay men. Once again, "less than/better than". The common theme here is that we just can't seem to move forward without trying to kick some off the train. This is how internalized racism, internalized sexism and internalized homophobia, respectively, work. We don't need external interference as was are perfectly capable of blunting our best efforts from within.

In ALL of these settings, this is counterproductive behavior. Instead of rallying around what can bring us together, we waste effort in trying to separate and splinter. We perpetuate EXACTLY what our enemies want: internal chaos, finger-pointing, wasted and mis-directed resources, etc.

Using a name that we all know, this is DIVIDE AND CONQUER and we do it to ourselves.

DeeAnn

[Launa]

All of this makes me want to be out more often and be more visible. I will never fully transition "I think" but I want to eventually be a person that stands up and is accounted for. None of this stuff makes me want to hide on the contrary I would like to bust out!

[flatlander_48]

Understood. I have just returned from DeeAnn's first trip to the grocery store for the week's shopping...

DeeAnn