Starting HRT this Sunday

[MissDanielle]

With the third downward spiral in six months since starting to realize things, I decided to call up my endo. We played phone tag over the weekend. It was mostly to alleviate some fears as I have an elevated bilirubin. She's going to watch it but isn't concerned with things for now. I'll be taking pills rather than injections or patches.

The dysphoria has been so badly of late. I'm having trouble getting through the day at work.

I'm temping, too. I've been there over a month. I'm starting HRT on Sunday. How long can I realistically wait before telling them that I'm trans?

[Megan G]

Miss D,

As always the standard answer is YMMV when it comes to seeing the effects of HRT. You could go 6 months or your could go 6 years before the need to tell arises...

I guess my only question would be in your last couple of posts you mentioned that you were delaying HRT because you knew you wanted biological children. Have you come to terms with the fact HRT will remove that option from you unless you freeze your stuff.

[Heidi Stevens]

I've been on HRT for a year and I purposely pass as male in most situations to stay married. No one has said anything to me openly about the body changes but my wife. It did calm my dysphoria, so I say go for it and deal with work down the road for now. Good luck!

[MissDanielle]

I guess my only question would be in your last couple of posts you mentioned that you were delaying HRT because you knew you wanted biological children. Have you come to terms with the fact HRT will remove that option from you unless you freeze your stuff.Freezing just wasn't in the budget. I tried delaying until it was in the budget.

It sucks but the alternative would be my emotional/mental health worsening and I don't want to be a statistic.

[ariannavt]

I started on a low dose of HRT a year ago and have steadily upped it and the blockers during that time. I've been on a "non-low" dose (it's all person-dependent) since October. I can still 100% pass a male if I want to (if you keep facial hair it is a huge sign of male), but I don't really want to hide it anymore. It's a growing dislike of hiding and I've found over the last couple of months that I simply don't want to spend the effort on it... so I'm now going through a checklist of items I need to do in order to "be ready" to come out at work.

Like any of this it's YMMV, but from my own experience it is entirely possible to hide changes to your body if that is your desire. Sometimes it requires a sports bra under a tight undershirt under a slightly large collared shirt, but it's far from impossible.

[MissDanielle]

I don't want to hide the changes....

[Barbara Dugan]

That is great news, congratulations :hugs:

[ariannavt]

How long can I realistically wait before telling them that I'm trans?


I don't want to hide the changes....

Sorry! I thought you were asking how long it would be before you >HAD< to tell them (them being work in this case). It's completely up to you. Tell when you want to, not before. :)

[MissDanielle]

I'm going to enjoy the mile long walk to the restroom!

[OCCarly]

Go to it, girl. I am not far behind you. First therapy appointment Monday!

[Nicole Erin]

no need to tell them anything unless you change your name while at that job.

[MissDanielle]

Cheaper to change my name back in Kentucky than it is in Illinois...

[Terri Andrews]

I also have a appointment with the Endo Dr. on the 23 th of May .
I have to hide things for awhile but am getting pretty sick of letting others control my life .
I was wondering what age others are that are starting on HRT? I am 71 and often think I have missed the HRT Happy boat.

[MissDanielle]

a lot are younger these days...

how long does it take for dysphoria/depression to go away?

[I Am Paula]

Miss Danielle, and Terri- good questions with no set answers. No single physical effect, or mental relief is guaranteed.
Alot of girls start feeling relief from GD within weeks, some never do. Sorry.
Physical changes at any age are a crapshoot. I had great facial changes, and female hair ptterns by four months, but after eighteen, still no boobage.
Despite that, most of the girls I know love HRT. Good luck.

[ariannavt]

Ymmv? :(

[PretzelGirl]

Very much so. I would guess that it depends on what triggers you the most. But I would hate to box it in to just that. Plus we may always find new triggers. It is so hard to predict but be optimistic as you will be heading in the right direction!

[MissDanielle]

I started my 4th week on Sunday. I feel amazing. My boobs are just starting to bud and feel heavier even if they don't look like they've grown any. Outside of my skinny jeans and soon-to-be-delivered bermuda shorts, I'm not wearing much womens' clothing outside while clearly presenting male.

My depression was kicked by the end of the first week.

I've completed four sessions of laser and the bulk of remaining hairs are located in the goatee area. I'd prefer to afford another groupon so as to clear off as many hairs before undergoing the pain that is electro. I've heard that HRT will lighten facial hairs. Is that true?

I'm very close to just coming out on Facebook. I've been posting a lot of trans links of late in light of all the news out there but vague-booking tends to get old rather quickly.

[JohnH]

I've heard that HRT will lighten facial hairs. Is that true?

I have been on HRT for over 4 years and I still shave my face daily. Fortunately I do not have a beard shadow since my whiskers are light in color. On the other hand my body hair became much finer so I don't have to shave my legs very often.

It takes a very long time to develop breasts. I guess I'm lucky - I now wear 40DD bras for my natural breasts. I guess I inherited that feature from my paternal grandmother.

[MissDanielle]

Today's update: I CAME OUT ON FACEBOOK. I'm not out at work so I'm not changing profile name or gender any time soon. I'm not starting a second page. The reaction has been very positive :)

[Jenn A116]

Ymmv? :(
Your Mileage May Vary. Shorthand for your experience may not be the same as others.

History, originated in car advertisements that used US Government fuel mileage figures. Many found those figures optimistic. Some found them misleading. The lawyers felt it was best to include a disclaimer in the auto adverts as to Your Mileage May Vary.

[ariannavt]

Your Mileage May Vary. Shorthand for your experience may not be the same as others.

History, originated in car advertisements that used US Government fuel mileage figures. Many found those figures optimistic. Some found them misleading. The lawyers felt it was best to include a disclaimer in the auto adverts as to Your Mileage May Vary.


Thanks Jenna. I was actually responding to I Am Paula's note above mine suggesting this is an example of "YMMV." :)

[Nicole Erin]

Hormones are not going to cause changes so big that you would have to come out at work anytime soon.

It is more "wishful thinking" on the part of most TS when they believe the changes are gonna be so great that people will even notice.

Pesonally, it seems to me that HRT is mostly a gimmick. Kind of like the latest weight loss supplement or those steroid alternatives you find in health food stores. All these things might make a slight difference (on a good day) but nothing life changing.

[Zooey]

Umm, no... HRT is definitely YMMV in a lot of ways, and the big changes happen over months and years rather than days and weeks, but for a lot of people the changes can end up being pretty dramatic. Fat shifting alone can make a huge difference. Both my body and face actually look pretty damn different. I'm recognizable to people who knew me well enough before and care to look closely, but there's been a lot of change (and it's still happening).

I won't post comparison pictures in a public forum, but it's significant.

That's not even scratching the surface though, because the mental and emotional changes... Even more significant.

[Jennifer-GWN]

Wishful thinking... A gimmick... SERIOUSLY!!!! OMG I think I'm going to melt down. Nichole Erin... What ever precipitated that comment? OMG!

[becky77]

Wow Nicole you really have no idea on the subject of hormones.
Hardly a gimmick it's done miracles to my mentality.

[Eryn]

After a year I'll say that HRT has done quite a lot for me. Calmer outlook, positive physical changes, lower blood pressure, etc.

[Jeri Ann]

Really Nicole? If HRT is only a gimmick or wishful thinking, then I have achieved mind over matter. Noticeable matter! I may become famous.

Jeri

[MissDanielle]

My coming out post has 305 likes and 128 comments as of this evening.

[Suzanne F]

Nicole are you on hormones? That is the dumbest statement I have ever read on this forum. I don't even know how to respond. They require a doctor to monitor and they are not freely just given out because they do offer many profound changes. For many of us it was the key to finally feeling emotionally mad physically right. Not to mention that my wife regularly exclaims it just amazes her that the changes are so visible after just over 13 months. If you are new here or are trying to get information please disregard Nicole's post!
Suzanne

[Eringirl]

Hormones are not going to cause changes so big that you would have to come out at work anytime soon.

It is more "wishful thinking" on the part of most TS when they believe the changes are gonna be so great that people will even notice.

Pesonally, it seems to me that HRT is mostly a gimmick. Kind of like the latest weight loss supplement or those steroid alternatives you find in health food stores. All these things might make a slight difference (on a good day) but nothing life changing.


Wow....ah...wow....I don't even know if I want to take the energy to respond to such a....um...what's the word I'm looking for....baseless comment? But, anyone who knows me, knows I can't keep my mouth shut. so.....

Yes, they are totally a YMMV treatment, I will concede to that. Quicker and more profound for some than others, no doubt. However, given that, how do you explain that after being on HRT for a year, many people in my world figured out I was in the process of transitioning due to changes in face, fat distribution and breast development. I had to wear compression garments and baggy sweaters to work so as not to be noticed, as I most definitely have B cup breasts. I only have to shave my legs once every 10 days now, and other body hair is completely gone. Maybe I was abducted by aliens instead???? Best thing I ever did to reduce my GD was to start medically approved HRT.

But this is just me.

[PretzelGirl]

My coming out post has 305 likes and 128 comments as of this evening.

I hope you are being showered with positive posts. It can be very affirming!

[Nigella]

OK folks, enough comments have been made regarding a certain post, now is the time to return the thread to the OP. Any further comment regarding this post will be deleted, if you want to say something, take it to PM

[Barbara Ella]

Good for you girl. Changes will come, and they will be rapid on some areas, and extremely slow and frustrating in others. The timeline will vary with individual, but the nearly immediate relief from the dysphoria is the most gratifying. Been on HRT for three years now. Extreme hair thinning and slowed growth in the past year. Getting some fat redistribution, and wife is amazed (chagrined!) at the breast development. I have to pass as male for the wife right now, so it can be hidden with the right fit of clothing. I wear loose quayaberas (mexican wedding shirt) 90% of the time, so they hide it well enough. Enjoy the jouirney.

For Terri. I started HRT at age of 66, and have been quite pleased with the long term developments.

Barbara

[MissDanielle]

One month checkup today! I'll find out my levels in the next few days. My endo wants me in the 200-500 level for E and 30 or under for T.

[Zooey]

Just a reminder that, to the extent that we talk about levels, the units are important. There are several units in common use for estradiol and testosterone measurements (pg/mL, pmol/L, etc.).

Hope your results are positive!

[MissDanielle]

Labs were in pg/mL. She didn't specify the measurements when she mentioned the range though.

[Megan G]

If i had to guess her range of 200-500 would be in reference to Pmol/L as if you converted 500 pg/ml that equates to almost 1900pmol/L... That's off the charts..

When I first switched from pills to injectable my first blood test was 1550pmol/L and my endo almost had a heart attack and I had to cut that in 1/2...

[Zooey]

That was my guess too Megan. The endocrine society guidelines target estradiol levels <= 200pg/ml that are female-normative at a mid-cycle level, though I have heard of some doctors who push people much higher.

[MissDanielle]

I mentioned how some folks were surprised at how high I was starting for E and she said that they want to get people off and running.

[Zooey]

Wow. I'm not a doctor, but wow.

[Megan G]

Double wow.. And as a starting dose to boot.

My doc would not even consider bumping me up to that dosage, thats the reason I went injectable E.

[MissDanielle]

E is at 176 pg/mL. T is at 53 ng/dL.

My endo wants to see E between 200-500 and T at 30 or under in those measurements.

Bilirubin was down as well but it's still slightly elevated but nothing like back in February.

EDIT: Labs for E are in pg....and I'm thinking that the 200-500 is pm.

[MissDanielle]

Thanks to a generous donation, I can afford the next six months of laser.

[MissDanielle]

My name change court date is set for the end of October. It works great for me as I am eying the start of November to go full time. It will be 6 months HRT. Full time may beckon sooner.

I also really opened up (https://danielleinchi.wordpress.com/2016/08/25/unlocked-memories-and-so-much-more/) on my transition blog about my entire life, minus that time I raided my mom's closet. I'm not able to see my therapist until this Thursday after work so I just needed to open up on all of my feelings and just let everything pour out.

[JanePeterson]

Have you been out presenting as yourself yet?

[MissDanielle]

The non-online social transition will take place in a single day. I see friends on the street all the time and I'm not going to run the risk of boymode in one place and girlmode in another. I'm going out in boymode until going full time. All my religious trans friends have done the same thing. except for a LGBT retreat here or there, they skipped the whole part time thing. What works for some doesn't work for others.

[KymberlyOct]

I will agree that each person's path is their own. On the other hand I was going to do the same thing post ffs. My therapist suggested otherwise and I came around to her logic. By trying to do an overnight transition I was in reality avoiding the fear of being read as trans, plus robbing myself of a lot of learning opportunities both in daily life circumstances and emotionally accepting myself.

That is just me. She convinced me and I am buying in. I don't want to tell anyone, you Danielle or anyone else what their path SHOULD be, but I just thought it was a good idea to put this concept out there.

[Zooey]

Are you planning on going to your name/gender change hearing in "boy mode"?

[JanePeterson]

so, please don't take this harshly,

but what your planning would be like someone saying they're going to join the tour de france this fall, but they're still on a tricycle... skipping the training wheels and jumping right into the race may seem simpler, but in the end will make things so much harder.

Nobody is saying you cant do things your way... the reason I and many others are worried about your approach is if you do all the "easy" (i.e. non personal or boy mode stuff) first, like your name change etc.... you won't have anywhere to fall back to if you find you need a safe place for a while. What if you don't like full time? what if you're really fluid and it hasn't hit you yet? there are a 1000 contingencies and you are really narrowing your options before you've figured out what is ahead on your journey. Don't be so focused on the END, worry more about the PROCESS and getting comfortable with yourself. Full time may just end up happening on its own!

[Mirya]

I've never heard of anyone doing their legal name change before going full-time. And you're taking it a step further and doing your name change before even going part-time?

I have to agree with JanePeterson. Transitioning is a very long process (especially the social aspect). And attempting to do it all overnight is just... it might be too much to handle emotionally. I'm worried about you. Is your therapist on-board with this plan?

[Georgette_USA]

I've never heard of anyone doing their legal name change before going full-time.


I did, might not have been wise at the time, but felt there was NO going backwards. I was full time with family & friends but not work, handled work after name change. Did not have to appear in court, lawyer handled that. Was NO Gender change till after SRS back then. We just pushed ahead with our transitions back then.

[Zooey]

I've never heard of anyone doing their legal name change before going full-time. And you're taking it a step further and doing your name change before even going part-time?

Technically, I did it 1 week before going full-time. That was just the time it took to get enough of my ID in order to not have to deal with mixed identification at work (between email vs. payroll, etc.). I was "full time except for work" for almost a year at that point though...

[MissDanielle]

Are you planning on going to your name/gender change hearing in "boy mode"?

Cook County hearings are on Monday mornings so I'll be off work that day and will have ALL WEEKEND after getting off work Friday to finally be me. I'll rush to find a place that can clean up my eyebrows and make them appear more feminine. I was cursed with a unibrow growing up and with laser on the full face, including the eyebrows, waxing is not happening on my face until I'm done with laser.

- - - Updated - - -


Full time may just end up happening on its own!Right now, I'm lucky if full time starts before the October holidays. I'm planning to be with family for Thanksgiving and my brother and SIL don't know yet if their oldest daughter will understand what's happening. The next time I see them is at the start of October and I am trying my darndest not to go full time by then. I am aiming for the last weekend of October but it could be much sooner.

I spoke to religious trans friends of mine to see how they did the whole full time/part time thing. Pretty much, the ones I know skipped part time in public and did the single day transition.

- - - Updated - - -


I've never heard of anyone doing their legal name change before going full-time. And you're taking it a step further and doing your name change before even going part-time?I'm skipping part time in public altogether.

I'm still apart of a very religious community and I have no plans to leave it.

We have seriously tight security at work. Badge must be worn at all times. Finger printing just to get in the door. It's easier to get the ID changed like right as I go full time rather than be full time except for work. Dress code is pretty strict, too, and I'd like to remove all these pants that are too large now that I've lost nearly 20 pounts and polos that are making it harder to hide growing boobs!

[Zooey]

Cook County hearings are on Monday mornings so I'll be off work that day and will have ALL WEEKEND after getting off work Friday to finally be me.

Oh, phew! I'm sure two days will be more than enough to rebuild your self-image and be comfortable in your own skin while stepping out the door as a woman for the first time on the way to one of the most important days of your life. I mean, especially if you get your brows done... Brows are obviously like half the battle. :straightface:

Best of luck to you, and I sincerely hope you know what you're doing.

[Marcelle]

Ms D,

Firstly congrats on moving forward with legal changes (e.g., name, gender) but, I think you are missing the point of what others are trying to impress upon you. Can you just go from boy to girl overnight and face the world as such the following day? I suppose you can. However, a legal name change, gender marker change and various cosmetic alterations is not a suit of armor when dealing with the world as a trans woman. You seem to feel that once your name and gender change is completed, then it will be all 5x5 transition complete and the world will see you as a woman. Unfortunately that is not always the case. Legal changes, cosmetic changes and even surgical changes are part of the process however the one thing I learned here and IMHO the message being given to you . . . you can do all that but until you are comfortable with the fact that people will see you as a trans woman (i.e., comfortable in your own skin), it is going to be tough road. Presenting in public as a woman part-time is going to give you the skills required to make that change when you are ready to go full-time as you would have met many challenges head on (e.g., interacting with people, having family and friends see you as you are and introducing work colleagues to the new you). Presenting as boy one day and girl the next without ground work (i.e., never having done it for protracted periods of time) . . . just saying . . . it could be difficult.

Don't take this as a condemnation of your plan. Who knows perhaps you are made of stronger stuff than most and will weather the overnight transition with little difficulty. I think folks are trying to give you the benefit of some experience.

Cheers

Marcelle

[JanePeterson]

I'm skipping part time in public altogether.


This is the part i don't understand

Part time is the EASY part - small steps, incremental growth, learning to live as yourself, learning who you are

I think this will be the last time I offer any advice - it seems you've set a course and nobody can change you mind... so best of luck and I hope everything works out

[tgirlamc]

Hi Danielle,

I wish you the best using your chosen methodology. We all go about this a little differently ...but, by posting your intent here... I assume you are inviting commentary on your plan...so here is mine... The reason you are seeing some hesitation, resistance and cautionary tone in the posts here is because, those here that have the perspective gained by navigating the obstacles you have ahead, see that you are choosing a particularly rough road to get to your destination when smoother ones exist.... I think you would do well to take at least a few swimming lessons before you jump off the high diving board into the deep end of the pool.

Take Care,

Ashley :)

[jentay1367]

Danielle,
Ya' know how you make a plan and look at it later and laugh at how sideways it all went? This won't be something you get a do-over on. At least think about what these women are telling you. If you need to...go to Milwaukee or something, get a hotel....wander around downtown and see how it all fits. At least give yourself a fighting chance. We all want the best for you.....and that's the truth. Lisa

[Jennifer-GWN]

Miss D... I have one friend who took the same approach. For the past year I've had more than my share of "if I'd only known" or "I didn't realize". Translation she didn't listen. In our neck of the woods we have a saying... You've just relinquished your bitch card.... No post coming out bitching allowed.

[MissDanielle]

My money is extremely tight at the moment so no out of town vacations unless it's for Thanksgiving or in December. I have not had a vacation all summer long. Thanksgiving is already a huge fight with my family...and I mean HUGE. Aside from my brother who was in town this weekend for a family event, I have not seen my parents since before I moved. They don't want to see me presenting as female...ever.

I know SEVERAL others who skipped part time and went straight to full time.

The thing with part time is this: I see friends at the train in the morning when I leave for work. I see friends at the grocery store almost all the time. Improv shows, too. So please tell me how do I explain to them I am not a CDer when they would see me as male and female. Reminder: I do not have a car. I do not have the luxurious expense of driving somewhere to present part time.

If I do part time at all, it is the day my friend helps me with makeup and the day another one organizes a clothing swap.

My only social life at the moment is shul and improv. I don't socialize with co-workers after work and I am not FB friends with them either.

As a sidenote: I lived in my apartment as a female while presenting as male in public before starting HRT. It damn near killed me getting through the day. My fake boobs played a tremendous role in keeping dysphoria at bay while in my apartment. My social life paid the price as a result as it pretty much turned me into a recluse. I'm going to have to wear a wig as it is.

I'm already out on Facebook as it is. My close friends accept me for who I am so socially, going full time won't be a problem.

[Marcelle]

Ms D,

You do what you thing is right and what works for you. We are just providing you with some of our own experience.

The one thing I don't understand is that you say you are out on Facebook so that implies that the same people you fear running into at the store, improv shows and shul . . . must know that you are trans. So . . . just saying if you present from time to time as a woman and they question it which I doubt they will since they know your plan is to transition, but should they question you, I would just let them know you are easing into things and this is part of the process. In my own transition, after I came out to my family and social circle I started presenting part time to get a comfort level and it slowly eased into full time with many valuable lessons learned.

Cheers

Marcelle

[MissDanielle]

Not everyone at shul is on FB.

I didn't want to come out on FB when I did. I was planning to wait a bit longer but the bathroom bills forced me to no longer be silent.

Presenting part time, in my mind, implies that I'm a crossdresser, which I am not. I'm transgender. But for some, there's no difference between the two.

[Jennifer-GWN]

In between is a natural healthy and character building process that establishes your readiness and confidence. Trust me thinking you'll be totally presentation ready in sept is a bit of a fantasy. Heck I've been ft for over a year still have to deal with messy days with a scratchy face during electro as one example. There's a great deal of work to this emotionally and physically.

[Starling]

I think part time is much harder than full. I have taken abuse from acquaintances and strangers all my life for one thing or another, mostly for not being manly enough, and I didn't give a good goddamn; but it is the loss of love from my dearest that I fear the most. I don't care if strangers stone me to death, frankly. At my age I'll die, one way or the other, pretty soon.

:) Lallie

[Zooey]

Okay... I'm going to add one more attempt at tough love, because I am genuinely concerned about you. I haven't tried to give you any sort of feedback in a long time, and this will almost certainly be the last time I do so before whatever comes of your plan.


The thing with part time is this: I see friends at the train in the morning when I leave for work. I see friends at the grocery store almost all the time. Improv shows, too. So please tell me how do I explain to them I am not a CDer when they would see me as male and female. Reminder: I do not have a car. I do not have the luxurious expense of driving somewhere to present part time.

The same way you (presumably) came out to them? Coming out is not a matter of convenience. It's a matter of necessity. Ignoring some very particular exceptions, none of which apply to you, driving somewhere else to "dress" is CD shit. Walk out your damn door. You live in Chicago of all places. Walk outside, catch the L, and go to boy's town.


As a sidenote: I lived in my apartment as a female while presenting as male in public before starting HRT. It damn near killed me getting through the day. My fake boobs played a tremendous role in keeping dysphoria at bay while in my apartment. My social life paid the price as a result as it pretty much turned me into a recluse. I'm going to have to wear a wig as it is.

The only thing turning you into a recluse is your overwhelming fear of the world. You have created this prison, and you are the only one who can let yourself out. There is nothing wrong with wearing a wig. Some women have no choice. Wearing breast forms in your apartment alone has taught you nothing about being comfortable as a woman in the real world. Nothing.


I'm already out on Facebook as it is. My close friends accept me for who I am so socially, going full time won't be a problem.

With all due respect... Facebook is not the real world. Not even close. More to the point, your friends accepting you is nowhere even close to your biggest problem. Your biggest problem is YOU accepting yourself. People talk about "learning to be comfortable being yourself" because it involves - wait for it - LEARNING. It doesn't happen in an instant, and right now you're betting your sanity (and quite possibly your court appearance) on it doing just that.


I didn't want to come out on FB when I did. I was planning to wait a bit longer but the bathroom bills forced me to no longer be silent.

"Poor me." Bullshit. If you were living as a woman, they might have. Nothing forced you.


Presenting part time, in my mind, implies that I'm a crossdresser, which I am not. I'm transgender. But for some, there's no difference between the two

Presenting part-time while being TS implies that you are IN TRANSITION. What do you think transition is? WHO GIVES A SHIT whether other people wonder if you're a crossdresser or not? If you honestly think that possibility, or even the fear of that possibility, is going to go away just because you went to court and declared yourself full-time, you are sadly mistaken.

You are heading for a nervous breakdown the first time you try to leave your house as a woman. You will be nervous, scared, and frankly, you might not make it out. All of us have been there. Do you really want that to be the morning of a court date where you have to go stand in front of a judge and look sincere in your request for a name/gender change?

Personally, I don't think you're anywhere close to ready to go full-time, and I can assure you that it has nothing to do with whether you pass or not. I don't know what the conversations you've had with your therapist about this are like. I'm assuming you are having them, but I think you need to seriously consider that you might actually be going about this in a way that doesn't end well for you. I've read your blog, and to me you seem detached in a lot of ways. Transition is not a checklist to run down, and that is what I see you doing. If I thought you had an amazing grasp of what to expect, and seemed genuinely prepared to deal with it, I would STILL be concerned. I don't really see that in you, so I'm VERY concerned.

Paperwork is not transition - it's paperwork. Laser is not transition - it's laser. HRT isn't even transition (at least not on its own). You have been avoiding the actual work of transition, and full-time with nowhere to run is not the time or the place to be doing it. Please trust me.

Best of luck with whatever you do. I've said my piece, and I genuinely hope things work out for you.

[Brooklyn]

I think part time is much harder than full.

Surely you cannot be serious.

[Eryn]

I presented part time for five years before I went full time. Like many, are first I thought I was a CDer, but later I understood myself better.

The incremental path worked pretty well for me. Others feel more urgency and jump right in. Everyone is different.

One thing that I didn't expect happened when I took my last vacation before transitioning at work. I was full time in my own community. I was amazed that occasionally I would walk into a restaurant or store and see a co-worker who showed no signs of recognition at all. I was so far out of context that they ignored me as they would ignore any woman my age!

For us, part time was harder. The need to switch back and forth, to adopt my man disguise for work, and particularly Mimi's need to keep my secret put a lot of stress on us. Now I'm out, everybody knows, and we can be ourselves.

[Georgette_USA]

, part time was harder. The need to switch back and forth, to adopt my man disguise for work,


I know for me the part time, full time but not at work, and the Monday having to do same was very trying on me. One reason why I had to push on at work. Such a relief after going full time everywhere.

[MissDanielle]

For us, part time was harder. The need to switch back and forth, to adopt my man disguise for work, and particularly Mimi's need to keep my secret put a lot of stress on us. Now I'm out, everybody knows, and we can be ourselves.Exactly. Now throw in the fact that I see somebody from shul just about every morning at the train station.

[Marcelle]

. . . snip . . . Presenting part time, in my mind, implies that I'm a crossdresser, which I am not. I'm transgender. But for some, there's no difference between the two.

Sorry, you could not be more wrong. When you are TS presenting part time is not cross dressing because you do not identify as a man but as a woman. Look, from what I read of your posts I do not get the impression you have ever ventured outside dressed as a woman, I could be wrong and if I am please feel free to correct me. Now, I am not talking about some stealth ninja femme mode where you walk down the hallway of your apartment complex and drop off your garbage or take the elevator down to the ground floor and walk outside in the dark. I am talking up close and personal in broad daylight, interacting with folks and going about your day.

If you have never done that, while it seems simple to just walk outside declaring yourself a woman, if you are not comfortable in your own skin with how you look to the world the fear can be paralyzing. My first time out in the light of day, it took me over an hour to just walk to my car from the house and another 40 minutes to talk myself out of the car to do simple thing like walk into a store, walk around then go straight back to my car. Without a doubt this was the hardest, scariest thing I ever did in my life including combat. It took months of working up to just being comfortable existing in the outside world (not interacting too much), I then had to dig deep to start interacting up close and personal. I assume you take public transit in your everyday life as you don't have a car. Do you know how difficult it can be to stand shoulder to shoulder with people mere inches from your face when you are taking your fledgling steps in the world as a woman? I'll save you the guess . . . extremely hard because every flaw, every masculine feature is right there in people's face to scrutinize . . . this is what we mean by being comfortable in your own skin because that is how real it gets.

If you are waiting to "pass" before you face the world . . . I am sorry . . . you have a long wait unless you have been genetically gifted or undergone FFS. Because of my smaller frame, long hair and clothing, I blend at a distance or when people are not paying attention but I never survive first contact. People will look at me and always see the male. The salient point we are trying to make is that until you are comfortable with yourself and comfortable with the fact that people will see you as TS . . . interacting in your day to day is going to be extremely difficult. Part time helps build those skills, develops that thick skin and brings you to the conclusion that regardless of what people see, you know who you are . . . a woman and in the end that is all that counts.

I have said my peace . . . take it for what it is worth.

Marcelle

[PretzelGirl]

Danielle, I heard about this discussion and came back to see what is going on. I have to say, I am perplexed. You come to a support group and you are choosing to ignore all of the support that is being given to you. I am concerned for you. I believe all people can transition however they wish, but that doesn't mean that I think all ways are good ways. You are being given the gift of experience here, please heed it. Everyone is sharing these thoughts with you because they care. You are heading for massive problems on your current path and you are blowing off everyone who cares and is trying to help.

I had what could be something really close to a perfect transition. I lost nothing. I lost no one. After about two weeks, my friends at work where telling me everyone stopped talking and just accepted me. I have been treated phenomenally well. Why? I was out getting used to myself long before I went full time. I was figuring out how I wanted to look. I was getting comfortable being around people and talking with them. This level of comfort doesn't happen overnight. But I got there. And I got there before I did my name change and before going on hormones as those don't affect your general comfort in public. Plus I am here to tell you, most every one of us still thinks we look male once we went full time and we had to fight those thoughts for a long period of time, some are still fighting. There is no magic pill of acceptance here.

No one says that you have to go out where your friends are. We all went through great pains to get out and we went for walks, to the movies, a restaurant..... something. But it takes repetitions. It takes time. There is no overnight solution. But you can do it and it doesn't take money. Just walk. Start by seeing how much you can keep your head up (it is hard). Then try looking at people you pass in the eye, then smile, then greet them. Do it all progressively. You will be surprised how long it takes you to get used to it. But you have to be able to do these things to interact with other people.

Before you can ever expect other people to accept you, you need to accept yourself.

[Tommie.]

Really listen to them Ms. D... open your heart and mind and listen..........

[KymberlyOct]

Danielle, I am going to do exactly what I said I wouldn't which is comment on this further. Please understand that the comments on your thread are not meant to criticize you, the comments are meant to help you. People here are actually concerned for your best interests. It may feel like they are trying to beat you up, criticize etc. What they are trying to do is explain why in their opinion you are proceeding down a very difficult road.

The members on here that are giving you this advice have lived this and gained experience and they are trying to make your journey a little easier. I am only a little further than you on this journey but I can assure you that the advice I have received and taken from the more senior members of this group has been invaluable. Please consider their advice as an attempt to help and not criticism.

If you do move forward with your plans and strategy as they are now I do hope it works out for you. Maybe you will be right but I fear it is going to be a more difficult learning process than it has to be and it is already hard enough. You do have my best wishes regardless of what you decide to do.

[Eringirl]

Presenting part time, in my mind, implies that I'm a crossdresser, which I am not. I'm transgender. But for some, there's no difference between the two.

Hi Danielle. Actually, you are inferring that presenting part time means you are are crossdresser. It is all in your head. Until you settled that in your own mind, it is going to be a tough go. And regardless of how you do this, it is going to be a tough go. This ain't for the feint of heart. I transitioned because I HAD TO, not because I wanted to. I couldn't see any other path to survival...literally. That's what got me outside the door. There was no other option. I was at that point. Maybe you are there, maybe you are not. Your call on that. Now, my process was nowhere near perfect, so I am no expert. But like Sue, my transition to full time (meaning 24/7 everywhere with everyone) was flawless. No issue. Not one. Full acceptance with friends, colleagues at work, and my family etc. But a lot of prep and hard work went into that, and a lot of listening to some very wise counsel, including for some wonderful folks on this forum whom I am proud to call friends.

I too was part time (everywhere except work), and yes it sucked and was tough. But every day was a day closer to going full time, and that's how I got through it. Given my personal circumstances I had to take that path. In the end, it all worked out, but man, it was a lot of work....A LOT. No matter how one does this, it is tough. One has to but the work into it. It ain't for the feint of heart, to coin a phrase. So, chose your path wisely, and do what you have to do. But remember, all decisions have consequences. And you may not like the consequences, but you choose that path. That is all part of this wild and wacky ride.

As is the case with many others on this forum, I wish you only the best and success in whatever route you choose to your destination. Just don't forget to fasten your seatbelt and watch for the signs that lead to detours and rough road so that you are ready for them, 'cause they are out there.

[Ashley in Virginia]

If nothing else, I've gotten alot out of this thread. I've been on hormones since February of this year and I've really been dragging my feet about getting out. My therapist told me last month to "shit or get off the pot"...

I am going to finally get out this weekend to a support group thing. Hopefully it goes well and I can find some strength to push forward from there.

[Suzanne F]

Danielle
I am also a Kentucky girl! Listen to all my sisters here. We have all done this! We don't have an agenda just experience. When you walk out the door in Louisville you had better be confident. I know that you don't live there but you will be visiting your family there and it will be tough. I suggest that you pick certain areas of your life that you will never preant male anymore. A first area could be visiting your therapist and doctor. If they are treating you for gender dysphoria then they need to see you as a woman. How does this require anyone else to see you?

Next pick something social that you can do on your own or with another person from our community. A social trans group or something similar. Make a decision you will always present as female and stick to it no matter what. In this way you will be forced to deal with life's surprises and respond while presenting female.

We have to be able to conquer obstacles if we are going to successfully transition. You are setting yourself up to fail if you can't commit to a few simple things. I doubt that you will listen to me but I felt I had to try. When I am in Louisville I am open to meeting you.
Suzanne

[MissDanielle]

One, I need to buy new glasses. That is a must before I can even start presenting in public. I just had an eye exam today so it is a matter of finding frames that work and at a reasonable price.

Two, I need to start working on makeup. My friend is going to help me but it's a matter of finding time in our busy schedules. This won't happen until new glasses arrive.

Three, I can forget voice because insurance doesn't cover it and the other place has a sliding scale and they may or may not let me go for really cheap.

Four, and I'm pretty sure that I am the only one on this section that this applies to (which is why I am listening to friends I know from elsewhere and have gone through the exact same circumstances as I am), I am transitioning in place in a very religious community. None of the ones I spoke to did the part time thing at all. It was straight to full time at a certain point after being on HRT.

[JanePeterson]

One, I need to buy new glasses. That is a must before I can even start presenting in public. I just had an eye exam today so it is a matter of finding frames that work and at a reasonable price.

Two, I need to start working on makeup. My friend is going to help me but it's a matter of finding time in our busy schedules. This won't happen until new glasses arrive.

Three, I can forget voice because insurance doesn't cover it and the other place has a sliding scale and they may or may not let me go for really cheap.

Four, and I'm pretty sure that I am the only one on this section that this applies to (which is why I am listening to friends I know from elsewhere and have gone through the exact same circumstances as I am), I am transitioning in place in a very religious community. None of the ones I spoke to did the part time thing at all. It was straight to full time at a certain point after being on HRT.




Oh Danielle....

did you notice how many people said the same thing in this thread? many of them transitioned in place in situations that are probably even more restrictive than your own. Also notice how NONE of their responses had ANYTHING to do with your 1-4 list. These lessons are universal. They have nothing to do with presentation (once again). I'm sorry you still can't see this.

And if you let a few well meaning, kind, yet insistent internet opinions scare you away from an anonymous website designed to support and advise you.... how you think you're going to just stroll out the door one day and face the harsh world as a transwoman is beyond me. I wish you the best - maybe your time WOULD be better spent somewhere else, because you don't seem to be able to accept or understand anything anyone here is telling you :(

All in all though, this thread contained some REALLY great wisdom and opinions... thank you to everyone who shared such thoughtful and powerful advice. I got a lot out of it!!!

[arbon]

Four, and I'm pretty sure that I am the only one on this section that this applies to (which is why I am listening to friends I know from elsewhere and have gone through the exact same circumstances as I am), I am transitioning in place in a very religious community. None of the ones I spoke to did the part time thing at all. It was straight to full time at a certain point after being on

Wow. You don't think anyone else has had to transition in place under difficult circumstances? Jane is transitioning in the CG....talk about difficult places to transition. Yet she is doing it with such an amazing confidence. She knows how to be true to herself out there in the world.


i hope it all works out for you. I really do.

[Zooey]

I'm going to say this for the benefit of others, because while Danielle might not see it, hopefully somebody else can learn from it.

Stop. Making. Checklists.
Stop. Confusing. Wants. With. Needs.
Stop. Inventing. Barriers. To. Use. As. Excuses.

You don't NEED new glasses. You WANT new glasses. BTW, nobody besides you would give a shit.
You don't NEED new glasses OR your friend to learn makeup. You WANT them, because it gives you an excuse for not doing it now. Watch makeup vlogs on YouTube - you've clearly got internet.
You don't NEED a voice coach. They can be a nice to have. WATCH YOUTUBE AND PRACTICE.

I'm not even going to touch #4, for a whole host of reasons.

Every problem you have has an explanation that conveniently (and erroneously) deflects the problem away from YOU. This is YOUR transition. YOU have resources available to you... USE THEM. Some of us would probably be resources available to you, if you weren't so damn obstinate all of the time. Your job is to be clearing obstacles, and instead you are furiously inventing them.

Enjoy your break, and good luck.

[KymberlyOct]

Well assuming Danielle has actually left or stopped replying this thread most likely will die a merciful death soon. For those of you reading that do not post ( which is fine - but I encourage posting it helps you learn by asking questions ) but for those that don't post at least read this thread. Learn from the people that have a lot of posts that seem to know what they are talking about. The only thing you can learn from me is that I know enough to listen to them. Do you have to do everything exactly as they say - of course not - you are your own person. Rather learn the general concepts that they are describing. They have lived this you have not.

Suzanne - great advice - unbelievably timely for me. I was just thinking today about doing exactly what you suggested. I currently go a few places as Kym - my therapist - my group and a very few others. Today I was thinking - OK this ( insert place here ) would be a good place to step it up and that place too. I am going to keep pushing my limits until eventually I can go anywhere. That is the only way I will be even close to ready to be full time. And I guess you are never really ready but your first time out in public IMHO is not the day to go full time.

New people - don't follow Danielle's decision to walk away from the discussion. Take the tough love and if you disagree or don't understand ASK. If you have a good attitude and are honest many people here would love to help you. REALLY :-)

[JohnH]

Hormones are not going to cause changes so big that you would have to come out at work anytime soon.

It is more "wishful thinking" on the part of most TS when they believe the changes are gonna be so great that people will even notice.

Pesonally, it seems to me that HRT is mostly a gimmick. Kind of like the latest weight loss supplement or those steroid alternatives you find in health food stores. All these things might make a slight difference (on a good day) but nothing life changing.

Let me say I frequently get read as a woman even when I am dressed in casual men's attire. So there is some effect of the HRT. One thing for sure however; it does not affect the voice. I still have my bass voice which I do not want to change. Even when I speak I still sometimes get read as woman.

My experience with HRT is that the changes are gradual. The makeup (lipstick and eye makeup) I use for business and church is subtle. As far as church is concerned I am the leader of the choir, and in the choir there is a female mezzo-soprano, one tenor, two baritones, and myself as a bass. And my use of HRT is hardly a secret.

[Starling]

Surely you cannot be serious.

It seems that way sometimes to me, and I did explain myself. I did not intend to minimize the struggle to claim your true gender officially, with all its practical and emotional ramifications and risks. Believe me, I face some of those risks every time I leave the house as me, and every time I confide in a friend, and I yearn to make them add up to freedom. Part time is mostly downside risk, with little chance of proximate reward, beyond the relief of telling the truth to people I respect and hope to count on. It is emotionally taxing to switch back and forth, while really needing to be full time--and seeing time running out. Have you ever been in a double-bind situation? If you'd like to know what my circumstances are, please PM me. But please don't dismiss what I feel out of hand.

:) Lallie

[arbon]

Lallie - being part time can be hellish hard. I did it for a long time desperately wanting it to end and just be myself everywhere. But I had to keep presenting male at work for a year and half after I had come out to everyone including work. That really sucked and was one of the most miserable periods of my life. But that is not really what is being talked about by the OP who does not even get out the door presenting as a female at all. What people are concerned with is that she is locking herself in by making all the legal changes and this plan to transition over night without any experience with interacting with other people presenting female or being seen as trans. She will have a lot to face all at once with nothing, no past experience getting comfortable with herself out in the world, to help her. Full time is a whole crazy adventure and a lot can come down on you fast.

[Zooey]

When people have lived both part-time and full-time, and each for a while, that is when i value their perspective on the relative degree of difficulty. They are both difficult, but in very different ways.

[Starling]

Lallie - being part time can be hellish hard. I did it for a long time desperately wanting it to end and just be myself everywhere...Full time is a whole crazy adventure and a lot can come down on you fast.

That's what I'm talking about, Arbon. I just want it to be over! I want to stop sweating at the edge of the pit and just effing start across the hot coals!


When people have lived both part-time and full-time, and each for a while, that is when i value their perspective on the relative degree of difficulty. They are both difficult, but in very different ways.

That's obviously smart, Zooey. But you can still go crazy waiting, and that's where I am, in a state of suspended life. It's paralyzing.

:) Lallie[/QUOTE]

[arbon]

Considering a lot of what you have posted lallie maybe you should make the leap.

[Jmichelle60]

Congratulations on the progress!

[MissDanielle]

wish me luck. nine days left of boymode at work and then making the switch as soon as I get back to my apartment. full time but work started TODAY.

And actually, I did need new glasses because the last eye exam I had until a few weeks ago was before 2008.

but yeah, I was myself today. If anyone clocked me, they said nothing. And of course, the only place I really went, aside from Target, was shopping on the Mile. That and Ulta.

[MissDanielle]

Lost my job on Friday. I've been full time ever since. I was going to come out a work in a week and a half.

This last week could not have gone any better, to be honest.

[Rianna Humble]

Sorry to hear you lost your job, was it related to your transition?

I hope the job market where you are is better than near me.

[MissDanielle]

Ultimately, yes, it was. I have to go through 3 sets of doors to walk to and from the bathroom. Throw in the fact that my department is the furthest away from the door and it's a long walk. I was having to pee once an hour. Holding it in for 90 minutes was tough.

They threatened to dock my pay a few weeks ago, have me stay late to make up the missed time, or find a way to fix it.

[Megan G]

I'm sorry that you lost your job Miss D, especially so close to when you were planning on coming out to them. So that makes me wonder how you are planning on proceeding from this moment. You posted a little while ago that your name change court date is only a month away. Are you planning on interviewing as Danielle or are you going to interview as the old you?

[jentay1367]

One step forward and two steps back....it can be so frustrating. Keep on pushing till the forces of the universe give you exactly what you want.

[MissDanielle]

I'm sorry that you lost your job Miss D, especially so close to when you were planning on coming out to them. So that makes me wonder how you are planning on proceeding from this moment. You posted a little while ago that your name change court date is only a month away. Are you planning on interviewing as Danielle or are you going to interview as the old you?

I am completely full time as of Friday afternoon! Before Friday, it was full time but work.

The main reason why I was delaying things until after this upcoming weekend was because of a family event and my brother and SIL don't know if their daughter will be able to understand what's happening.

[Megan G]

Miss D,

Ok you were FTEW for 5 days before you lost your job, prior to that you could not even leave your apartment dressed...

Listen I wish you nothing but the best, I really do and I hope you find exactly what you are looking for. This is not an easy road for anyone. But have you sat down and considered the mountain that is right in front of you that needs to be climbed? Not long ago you were complaining that you barely had enough money to eat, you were taking donations for laser hair removal and I am sure the list goes on.

Your first priority should be finding a job to ensure you have a roof over your head and food on the table.

I have been there, I am sure a few of us have. I was laid off 6-7 months after I went full time and let me tell you finding a new job is hard enough for CIS people, add into the fact that you are trans and the odds are stacked against you even more. I spent 7 months being unemployed and trying to find a job and that is with a college degree and years of experience in a very specialized field. You can have all the protections you want at the city/state and federal level for gender identity but that is not going to help. My family suffered big time because of it.

I'm not telling you to abandon your transition but I am saying to reconsider how you plan on attacking your job search. Your name change is not scheduled for another month and you barely have any real world experience in your new identity. You still need to learn who Danielle is...

Get a job, get some money coming in and then tell them your trans. That's my advise and I only want to see you succeed.

Megan

[MissDanielle]

while i take your advice into consideration, physically, emotionally, and mentally, it was getting harder to keep presenting as male. i'm still the same me at my core. but for the sake of my emotional and mental health, i had to go full time. there's no going back. i fully know hard tough it is to find a job while being openly or visibly trans. the situation sucks but it is what it is.

i have great friends in Chicago and elsewhere, who have been amazingly supportive. some have provided job leads and we'll see what becomes of that.

except for my voice, I am passing regularly without issue and with no makeup.

[Nicole Erin]

It seems like you are good at finding things to let get in the way of everything.
"I want to do this but I have to do that first. I would do this but there exists that condition..."
I used to be like that but I learned something - there will always be something to get in the way if you let it.

Put it this way - I never had and never will have a ton of money for a "proper" transition. So instead i worked around it.
Some web site I read years ago was talking about building a lucrative career to have the money. Here was my thought -
"Screw that, i don't want to wait for years and have to become a career type, I just want to live as my true self".

The problem with setting up obstacles for yourself is they often take on a life of their own, sometimes giving birth to their OWN obstacles.

It may seem like an entitlement mentality but get this - plenty of people out there who don't work for what they want will find other, easier ways to get it.
That is why you see some jobless, babbling losers dating beautiful women while a good looking clean cut educated guy has not.
That is why you see someone at the grocery pay with food stamps but then are driving a humvee.
Most important on this forum - It is why I live this full time (and have a job) but not on HRT, therapy, never had surgeries and yet some members who do all that come in here and still complain about how hard it is to be TS or they still get "clocked".

Do not let anything stand in your way

[Starling]

...That is why you see someone at the grocery pay with food stamps but then are driving a humvee...

That's pretty common, actually. Especially in Afghanistan.

:) Lallie