Prince

[deebra]

The newspaper described Prince as leaving behind a vast legacy of genre bending albums and gender-bending fashion statements meaning a lot of his clothing was feminine. If so many people were so saddened by his passing and were big fans of his why didn't his dressing in feminine designed clothing take off with designers, manufacturers ( translates to a new style for males which means $$$ for them ) and males that wanted to dress and be like him. This was his off stage dress also. Michael Jackson also dressed feminine including makeup. Remember the Beatles, as soon as everyone saw them with long hair most males let their hair grow. That's my point, if it changed for the Beatles, why didn't styles change as a result of Prince and Michael? Guess CDing acceptance is the last thing on earth to change, even climate change is passing us by.

Where might this be going, if Prince and Michael caused men's clothing to be even a little more feminine then this would further open the door for more acceptance of MtF CD dressing. It hasn't so just keep on wearing what makes you happy.

[Krististeph]

I loved Prince Charles Nelson from the early 80s on. I even painted the 'when doves cry' graphic (http://guideimg.alibaba.com/images/shop/85/10/29/4/music-prince-t-shirt-when-doves-cry-dave-chappelle-michael-jackson-brooklyn_1051964.JPG) on my apartment wall- 6 feet tall.

Prince was a prince- and got away with the name because he was a prince. Smart- outstandingly schooled in music, he was the personification of a Renaissance era prince or princess. If i lived in Minneapolis, i would have likely become his electrician/best boy or whatever the hell they call it. Rode a japanese 4 inline bike, rode it well too, if you watch the movie.

Prince was more than music, but he made music more than sounds. Like Freddie Mercury (Farouk Bulsara), or David Bowie (David Jones) Prince Charles Nelson made everything he touched bigger, better, brighter. Like all people he was human and undoubtedly had plenty of flaws. But who would not like to just hang out with the guy, such a stellar muse?

If you can find a good version, watch the video 'raspberry beret'. yeah there have been allusions to various steamy meanings... but this happens with all literature. Point- Prince made a really cute video with an awesome song, and a hundred or so of the people who loved his music.

The cloud suit was epiphanic- like david byrne's grass suit. Prince moved people, he moved me.

And: he will continue to move me, and move many others, for all time.

I will miss him, like i miss bowie, and freddie mercury, god genius musician performers.

[sometimes_miss]

It didn't change, because women are generally sexually turned off by femininity in men. It takes a whole lot of money to overcome that; and Jackson & Prince had tons of money. Some women will overlook just about anything if you have enough money and fame. And lots of men don't really care what a guy is like personally, if his work is exceptional. Michael, Prince, Liberace, etc., there have been plenty of effeminate men in the performing arts that both men and women admire and appreciate for their work. Doesn't mean that other men wish to emulate him in that femininity, because oh, when you're rich and there's something odd about you, you're considered eccentric. When you're poor and there's something odd about you, you're considered mentally ill.

[Jenniferathome]

Your chief problem is comparing Prince to the Beatles. The Beatles are the greatest musical group that ever existed and Prince was a musician who had some hits. Here's a test, name three Prince songs that are not, Purple Rain, Little Red Corvette, and 1999.

Your other mistake was assuming stage clothing translates to public consumption. It doesn't. So while Prince or MJ may have pushed boundaries, so does Lenny Kravitz and Bjork. None of these people have influenced fashion in general.

[Amy Fakley]

It didn't change, because women are generally sexually turned off by femininity in men. It takes a whole lot of money to overcome that; and Jackson & Prince had tons of money.

Eeeeh ... I don't know. Prince paid his dues on the starving artist scene plenty, if I recall correctly. The ladies still loved him. In fact it was that sex appeal that catapulted him into the spotlight (not that he wasn't just about the most amazing mucisican of all time, but of you want pop success musical integrity ain't how you break through -- then or now).

And In fact, for a short while, he did impact mainstream fashion. The androgenous thing in the late 70s / early 80s was a thing. It just didn't have a whole lot of staying power in the main ... and I think the reason was this. Prince's sex appeal was rooted in his ownership of his feminne energy.

Yeah he was wearing a frilly blouse, 4 inch heels and makeup ... damn straight! And he was STILL gonna go home with your girl! It wasn't just about his style, it was about his absolute confidence in who he was. That's not something you can emulate, if it's not inside you to start with, and that's why it never broke into the mainstream in a lasting way.

Prince was just about the patron saint of crossdressers, in my opinion.

[Alice Torn]

Sometimes Miss, I largely agree with you, but Amy has good point too. You mention Liberace, for all us old timers here. My mom even liked him, and he was a great pianist, but one look and you knew he was likely gay. I loved his music, but he was a different genre than Prince, for sure. I honestly knew almost nothing about Prince, as i am mainly into classical , and old music of all kinds. I really am not into his kind of music, but i read about him, and admire his down to earth humility, when riding his bicycles, and being down to earth with common people.

[Tina_gm]

Prince was a one of a kind human being. Why many women liked him I think had little to do with his femininity. It was his absolute confidence in himself that did not bleed over to cockiness. He wore what he wore, and did not give a crap what anyone thought about it. He didn't hate those who hated him (at least publicly) and had a generally positive message. He didn't preach politics, just love.

Some fashions these one of a kind people are never going to carry over to the masses. Its just not something many of us are ever going to be able to own. But, own it he did. I think also, for those on here who have the most success with s/o's acceptance are those who just own it. They aren't afraid of themselves, and are not afraid to tell anyone who they are or what they like. It is all the rest of us who are scared of ourselves and what other people think of us, hide, lie about ourselves, pretend to be something other than what we really are, then wonder why our partners have such difficulty with us, partly because WE have difficulty with ourselves. If WE don't feel confident in ourselves, no one else will either.

[bimini1]

Your chief problem is comparing Prince to the Beatles. The Beatles are the greatest musical group that ever existed and Prince was a musician who had some hits. Here's a test, name three Prince songs that are not, Purple Rain, Little Red Corvette, and 1999.

Your other mistake was assuming stage clothing translates to public consumption. It doesn't. So while Prince or MJ may have pushed boundaries, so does Lenny Kravitz and Bjork. None of these people have influenced fashion in general.

I'm not sure you have an understanding of who Prince was. Of course non of us really do. The man essentially lived and breathed music.

Kiss
when doves cry
Hot thing
Sign of the times
Soft and wet
I wanna be your lover
She's always in my hair
Pop life
Uptown
Controversy
Why you wanna treat me so bad
I feel for you
Nothing compares to you
Girls & Boys
Bambi
You Got The Look
Shockadelica
Diamond and Pearls
Get Off
Sexy MF
Housequake

Really. This is just for starters. Not to mention all of the stiff he wrote and produced on other artists.

[Leslie Langford]

...and Prince was a musician who had some hits...

Really? Then why all the tributes and accolades from around the world after he died, including Niagara Falls and the Eiffel Tower being bathed in purple lights?

A reporter once asked Eric Clapton what it felt like being considered to be the greatest guitar player in the world. His reply was along the lines of "I wouldn't know...ask Prince."

[Tracii G]

Actually its Prince Rogers Nelson and I'm sure his clothes were custom made for him and not ladies clothes.
All these "what if" and "why not" threads are driving me crazy.
Why cant people accept things for what they are and not try to find something that isn't there.
Prince helped so many people such as other artists by helping them get their break into the business,Written hits for other people,humanitarian aid for people in need all over the world.
All without seeking credit for his good works and that to me speaks volumes of the man he was.
Like his music or not his music touched millions of people all over the world and had a profound impact in music.
A true musical artist unlike many so called stars today that have no talent.

[Ressie]

The very first time I heard of Prince (1980) a girl told me that he was a transvestite. Maybe she got the idea from the album cover, I don't know. But I also read an interview with prince in some musician magazine where he told the story of rehearsing in the basement with one of his first bands. He said that there was a guy hanging around that wore women's clothes! He didn't say who it was, but maybe it was himself?

Funny connection to crossdressing with the Beatles: They met Astrid Kirchherr when they played in Hamburg (1960) - who created their moptop hairstyle. She also had many transvestite friends and was into that scene.

[Jenniferathome]

I'm not sure you have an understanding of who Prince was. Of course non of us really do. The man essentially lived and breathed music

Really. This is just for starters. Not to mention all of the stiff he wrote and produced on other artists.

I'm quite familiar with his work. I respect any musician who can play all the instruments on an album, Like Paul McCartney. I'm not offering a position other than he pales in comparison to the Beatles. And I don't have to use Google to name 100 a beatles songs.

[bimini1]

I'm quite familiar with his work. I respect any musician who can play all the instruments on an album, Like Paul McCartney. I'm not offering a position other than he pales in comparison to the Beatles. And I don't have to use Google to name 100 a beatles songs.

Thread is off rails quick lol. Maybe the mods will let us have a little fun with it, some leeway.

I know you love some Beatles. I love em too. I can name a hundred Beatles tracks without flipping thru my vinyl. My point is at the end of the day is there is no true Greatest anything. Always somebody badder to come along. But they are all great. In my opinion Prince is on par with the Beatles. I think James Brown is baddest to ever do it. Some will say all he does is grunts. I could say there is two kinds of pop music, pre and post Sly Stone. Surely you would beg to differ.
Took 4 Beatles to do it right. Arguably none of them reached those same heights solo, commercially or creatively. Prince is 1 person who did what it took them 4 to do. It's all great music.
He had his influences just like all artists do. I'm sure the Beatles were one of them (Around the World In A Day was straight psychedelia w/o the acid). Any music that comes first is gonna influence what comes next. The 80's were the 60's all over again as much as the 90's were the 70's. All of those 60's Brit bands Beatles included took American R&B and gut bucket blues and put another face on it. They met Little Richard and thought he was God.

As for the gender bendy part he does more than just clothes. Check the video for Gett Off where he bends over and simulates sex with one of his male back up dancers. He wore a lot of make up I mean whole 9 yards blush everything. Hello Little Richard who was doing that in the 1950's. Prince once said he can't understand why people think he is gay for that either. Same thing a lot of us like to say too, hehe. He's a mysterious character hard to pin down.

Did he do all that for entertainment value? Perhaps, but he pushed that envelope, pressed folks buttons and challenged taboos for sure. He wasn't the first, only or last to do it. Most artists of that calibre are just free spirits. They can't be bound by conventional anything.

[Eryn]

A reporter once asked Eric Clapton what it felt like being considered to be the greatest guitar player in the world. His reply was along the lines of "I wouldn't know...ask Prince."

Clapton was being modest. He might just as easily have said "ask Knopfler" or "ask Hendrix." He probably picked Prince for his flamboyence.

[deebra]

Jennifer your chief problem is you are totally wrong on this one and all the threads said so.

[mykell]

i will say that folks are passionate about the music they like, kinda like religion, politics, or your favorite sports team, i did not see the same comparison to the music as much as the influence of there dress and style, many of the European bands making theyre way across the Atlantic were setting the style trend here in the USA.
the beatles of course were the most prominent, swooning women and screeching teenagers like we saw back then will likely never repeat itself.
they really didnt catch my interest until sgt. pepper.....my taste....to be honest theyer early stuff wasnt really difficult to perform and was what we called growing up bubble gum music, flavor of the month. the music industry handled the fab four.

michael and prince retained the individuality they had and were in a different phase of a changing industry.

michael jackson, not being handled like when in the jackson 5 was enormously popular, but not a fan, in his later albums he commanded a vast array of talented people to produce his shows and albums and videos. huge talent, very popular, many people did take fashion cues from his style but nothing that could go mainstream.

prince had my attention from the MTV era when they actually played music videos, he really impressed me with his talent musically but was not a big fan, he owned his style and could never see it going mainstream, somewhere during that time "GRUNGE" was popular (thank you Brittany for sticking a fork in that)

steve tyler and all the other poser bands that wore girl styled clothes and makeup never pushed it mainstream but there were some clothing cues that were touched on, bell bottoms, designer jeans, (apache )? scarves on men for a while and still see some wear regular scarves today, a few examples, but as far as men wearing dresses and skirts, were gonna have to do that ourselves.....and since this is a thread about prince i did the google search.

as far as who is better, its art, we all have different tastes, i will say however that being the most popular and being the best are too different matters, sometimes the most popular perception doesnt make any other wrong, just ask any gender non conforming individual not doing a popular task....


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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Songs_written_by_Prince_%28musician%29

[Tracii G]

I feel lucky to have seen the Beatles live as well as Jimi Hendrix,The Who,Cream (Eric Clapton),Kiss in 78.Black Sabbath in 71 and I consider them all to be ground breaking bands in their time because they changed the music scene in many ways.
I saw Prince and The Revolution 84 or 85 I don't really remember the exact year but it was an event.I agreed to go with a GF and really didn't expect much more than a 40 min rock show but it was over 2 hours with no let up. Just a remarkable show.
I rate it up there with Kiss as far as being an event more than just a concert,you became part of the show.
After that Prince show no big artist or band I have seen since has even come close.

[bimini1]

Tracii now that is some serious music history right there what a blessing.

[summerbunny]

women's blouse and a short hair style like hailed berry.he was only 5'2" in height.


In 1984 at Prince peak with him having the #1 movie and #1 album many at grade schools and colleges dressed like prince.
Purple rain
Many had there hair done like prince.

[Tracii G]

As far as fashion how many people had a black and red Michael Jackson jacket and wore one glove back when Thriller was the big album?
They were everywhere.

I have been fortunate to have been to probably 1500 + concerts in my life.
Music has always been a strong force in my life since the 60's and I still go to this day.
I support local bands and go to clubs all the time with the band I work for so I do get to see a lot of great bands.
If you live in the Boston Mass area check out OC45.
Knoxville Tenn go see Mass Driver.
Louisville Ky check out Red Bones and Signal the Revolution.
Local bands that play every weekend are some of the best bands to see live and many times its the unknown bands that never make it big that put on some great shows.
Here is a video from a friend of mine Ben Lacy doing a show in Nashville Tenn https://youtu.be/ulC9TUqIjtg

[ReineD]

Where might this be going, if Prince and Michael caused men's clothing to be even a little more feminine then this would further open the door for more acceptance of MtF CD dressing. It hasn't so just keep on wearing what makes you happy.

Slate has a good article on Prince's gender bending:
http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2016/04/21/prince_dead_at_57_embraced_gender_fluidity_ahead_o f_his_time.html

If anything, he advanced genderqueer as a style. He blended feminine elements with raw masculinity. There was never any question about his masculinity. Members here tend to want to hide their masculinity.

There's a big difference. Prince might have worn a sparkly man-shirt that was open to reveal a manly, hairy chest. CDers want to wear a woman's shirt and add padded bras.

[JaytoJillian]

Your chief problem is comparing Prince to the Beatles. The Beatles are the greatest musical group that ever existed and Prince was a musician who had some hits. Here's a test, name three Prince songs that are not, Purple Rain, Little Red Corvette, and 1999.

Your other mistake was assuming stage clothing translates to public consumption. It doesn't. So while Prince or MJ may have pushed boundaries, so does Lenny Kravitz and Bjork. None of these people have influenced fashion in general.

ok--Head, Uptown, Adore, Controversy, Pop Life, Diamonds and Pearls, Delirious, Kiss, My Computer--Yes, I could go on.

My test--ask a 20-something to name 3 Beatles Songs. Great group, but time eventually forgets us all

[Tracii G]

Good point Jill.

[JamieG]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Prince's alter-ego "Camille" yet. Apparently he has an entire unreleased album recorded using this name.

[Tracii G]

He did have other works under different names from what I have heard but have not heard any to my knowledge.

[bimini1]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Prince's alter-ego "Camille" yet. Apparently he has an entire unreleased album recorded using this name.

Yup. He put this one down shortly after he disbanded the Revolution. Apparently he became fascinated with this sped up vocal. Well he slowed the tape down, did the vocal, then sped it up to get that "Camille" effect. It's rooted in Erotic City. He did Housequake around the same time then did a whole LP on Camille.

Unsure why he scraped it although some say he was worried about its commercial appeal. In my book at that time he could do no wrong. Dream Factory was another record he was toying around with as well as Crystal Ball, which came out much later and not as the originally envisioned project.

Now get this. Here is where is gets really interesting. It's rumored that the name Camille came from the nickname of a 19th century French hermaphrodite named Herculine Barbine. I never looked that up and he reportedly never denied it. May google that.

If there is any silver lining in this tragedy it's that we might finally hear some of the supposed thousands of tracks he had locked away in"the vault".

[sometimes_miss]

Eeeeh ... I don't know. Prince paid his dues on the starving artist scene plenty, if I recall correctly. The ladies still loved him.
THat's just the 'front man of a band' phenomenon. Any decent performers's going to have ladies interested, because he gives off the impression that he's a 'leader'. Alpha males are leaders. Appearing to be a leader makes women think you have traits of an alpha male, and makes them hot for you.

[lainey]

Beautiful Ones, Annie Christian, Diamonds & Pearls

[summerbunny]

Prince did a song with rapper and actress Eve,she's ghetto Fabulous.