a question of equitability and hypocrisy

[pamela7]

Consider a scenario: you come home to find your SO has: cut their hair short and boyish, glued on a smart false beard, strapped down her breasts, packed a fake penis, and is wearing men's clothes. She announced that "he" wants to be called "Bob", and to promptly walk into town with you to go shopping, arm in arm:

a) with you in guy mode,

b) with you in girl mode.

My questions are:

1. what is your response/acceptance to Bob?

2. how does this compare to what you expect from your SO when you are dressed?

3. how would this change your relationship to your SO over time?

For the record, I'm owning up to being a hypocrite, and really don't know how I would cope with it; thus I am asking.

[Erica Marie]

I would allow her, depending. Here is where our hypocrite side comes in. Does she pass, or at least blend in? I myself would never head out in public if I didnt think I at least blended in and would have a hard time if she didnt. I know it is wrong. I dont have an SO reason being that I find it hard to ask some one else to accept me this way.

[Judy-Somthing]

I think it could be cool but,
I wouldn't be surprised if it got old fast if she had a whole male wardrobe and always wanted to do it.


Of course it was Halloween one time I went as a bride and my wife a the groom.
She looked so much like a guy when we weren't standing together our friends thought who the heck is this guy here without a costume?

[CarlaWestin]

First time out, me in man mode. I would want time to observe and learn this new other side. Would she be more domineering as a man? It certainly would be an interesting dynamic. I could get used to it.

[carrie001]

I'll be honest, it sounds fun as hell!

[NicoleScott]

1. I crossdress in response to my internal drive, so how could I not accept her response to her drive?
2. I place no expectations on her when I dress (like going out with me), so I wouldn't want her to put expectations on me (like going out with her).
3. No way of knowing.

[sara66]

I would most likely be ok with it. but first you have to ask if she was gay and if she want to become a man. lol
if she wanted to go shopping, i would beat her to the car.

[bridget thronton]

I cannot control what she does with her life or her body. She has my love always as I hope I continue to have hers.

[Tina_gm]

I guess because I know for me this would be difficult (not impossible) is why I strive so hard to compromise my fem/gender issues.

[Lauri K]

It would take some getting used to but it could be alright with me, after all I have met a few FTM people that seemed pleasant to be around. But I have to say NO to the glue on mustache......

I sometimes wonder if there is a construction crew in my house / kitchen, because my wife is not gentle at all on the doors, pots, pans, drawers, etc. She makes more noise doing little things than I do, just saying she may have some of those male traits already.............make wonder some days.

[Pat]

I think the description misses the most important part that would make all the difference: what's the emotional temperature of the scene? If she's excited, happy and enthusiastic I can see it all playing out wonderfully. If she's "weird" and I get the sense that she's not really in the role but is trying to work something out, I'd be more circumspect.

Let's turn up the heat, since it wouldn't be a big deal to go out in the big anonymous world -- what if she's done up like that and wants to go to your folks' place and come out to them? Now you're not facing the scrutiny of strangers, you're facing the scrutiny of people who know your past and will be in your future. Does that change the dynamic? ;)

[Jackie7]

Having been a little way down that road, I can say it was/is fun for us (might not be for you) mostly because of the way other women react to my wife when she puts on her rough guy. They defer to her the way women often do, they treat her as if she was a guy, even when they are close friends who aren't fooled for an instant. very interesting phenomenon. And she has found, as I have too, that it's a lot of fun in small doses, a lot of work in medium doses, and craziness (for us) in large doses.

[pamela7]

yeah, the beard's a no-no for me; the rest; okay, why not.
Visiting my folks; no problem either.
I think mainly though, I love the look of the female form; such a shame to hide it.

PS and to be fair, my SO hates it when i don't shave, so we have balance there!

[Sara Jessica]

...and she (being a term to refer to most of our SO's) loves the male form and it is such a shame to hide it (shame being the understatement of the century for many of our SO's).

Thing is, this is such a fantastical scenario that is right up there with a guy telling his wife as she is about to give birth "I'd trade places with you in a second if I could". Women simply are not wired the way guys are and the prevalence of crossdressing behavior as described in the OP scenario is infinitesimal at best.

[2B Natasha]

As others have said. No beard. Hate those things. Hipsters and lumbersexual's ruined them.

Otherwise. Sure. Why not. I think I would go how ever I felt at the time. Meaning. Do I have the energy and time to look right en femme or not. What are we shopping for? Power tools? Lumber? Chainsaw? What is " Bob " after?

I would hope that I give " Bob " the same respect I desire. Bit of an existential question that.

How would it change the relationship over time. Once again don't really know but it would be fun to find out.

In the end. If you eliminate the beard. I'm not sure what the difference is between " Bob "and a lady that doesn't do the stereotype girl stuff such as makeup and hair.

[LelaK]

An FtM wife might be hard for me to take, which is why I should probably try to get a lesbian or bisexual lover.

[Sallee]

granted it would be hard to accept. I would accept at least for a bit. My SO has accepted me for a bit. But she grew tried of it and it was no longer fun for her. Which I can totally understand. I would no doubt be the same. "lets go out together each cross dressed". It would be fun to see how each of us reacted to the rest of society but after awhile it would grow old I am sure. So for that reason I tend to keep my cding out of her life and she can keep her cding out of mine and we get along fine.
She doesn't cd to my knowledge. She is aware of mine but prefers not to be involved any more. There was a time she was involved but it grew old.
It works better this way for both of us

[Jaylyn]

Won't ever happen. I promised her when I cross dress I will not go out that way. Thus she would probably have to follow the rules she laid down for me. Just our agreement.
I did ask this similar question once on here but mine was if you came home and your wife was cross dressing as a male? Some interesting responses.

[Jenniferathome]

... the prevalence of crossdressing behavior as described in the OP scenario is infinitesimal at best.

yes, it is closer to fantasy than anything else. And yet, this question keeps popping up now and again. Can we be objective?

I can state with certainty that I would not understand why she would want to do that. And this is EXACTLY how she sees my cross dressing. That aside, I would respect her desire to go out with me in the same way she respects mine.

[Meghan4now]

After a half an hour, my sides would stop hurting from laughing so much, but then I would still have the ice pack over the eye.

I would hang with her dude night out, and make sure we went to a strip club. No hand in hand or kissing.

Maybe hold her hand, etc while I was dolled up.

Where our relationship would go from there has too many variables.

[Nadine Spirit]

1. what is your response/acceptance to Bob?

2. how does this compare to what you expect from your SO when you are dressed?

3. how would this change your relationship to your SO over time?


1 - I'd have no problem with Bob. What I would have a problem with is her doing all of those things without ever discussing it with me, and then just popping it on me seemingly from nowhere.

2 - It does not compare, as I discussed everything with my wife prior to doing anything. I would not care in the least about her wanting to express a clear gender variance, I would however be quite annoyed at the total lack of communication that would be obvious at that point.

3 - It might change the relationship as I would be very aware that my spouse never bothered to trust me.

I would have to add - this fantasy situation you propose - would be be absurd for anyone to treat their spouse in that manner. I understand that many of you have never told anyone of your gender variances, but this would not be the way to do it. Discussions first people, actions second, in my never to be humble opinion

[ClosetED]

She has bought fake mustache and beard and said she liked it and wanted to have sex with me while she was wearing it - so I was fine with it.
If she wanted to go shopping hand in hand that way, then I should go out as Ellen and she can treat me like a lady!
Ellen

[Gabby6790]

I have often thought about this and it has softened my opinion what what she wears normally. My unknowing SO is not a girlie girl. In the past, I have pushed for her to dress more feminine. Now, that I understand that hypocrisy I bring it up much less. Now, if she really wanted to go full macho I would want to discuss why and how often. If she would still agree to go femme on some occasions (especially the bedroom) I don't think I would have any choice but to agree considering my own situation.

[pamela7]

You are of course right Nadine, and I discussed my cd-ts journey every step of the way with my wife before taking it, so I guess I could frame it as part4:

"if she told you and you were involved every step of the way, how would you respond?"

[NicoleScott]

"You look great, Bob. Oh, by the way, the oil in my car needs changing, and the kitchen faucet is dripping. Have a look, will ya? I'd help, but I just did my nails."

[2B Natasha]

If she told me and we started down the journey together. It would take the conversation in a completely different direction. Do we do a complete gender swap or is this a weekend thing or is it something that just comes and goes. I'm good with any of those but what is it.

[Rhian]

I'd be fine with everything except cutting her hair. I don't find women with short hair attractive. If she was transgendered then I'd leave her.

Anyway I wouldn't be a hypocrite as I have decided to live my life alone as it wouldn't be fair to drop the bomb during a relationship.

[sometimes_miss]

The problem is, you're preaching to the choir here. Most men would be horrified at the idea. Most of us would go along with her, and see where it goes, because WE understand.


I'd be fine with everything except cutting her hair. I don't find women with short hair attractive.
Me neither. I find short hair on women to be a real sexual turn off, which is why I understand why women want nothing to do with crossdressers.

If she was transgendered then I'd leave her.
That depends upon whether she still found me attractive. Just like not all mtf's are over the top feminine, not all ftm's are over the top masculine. There's a huge gray area to deal with, as we all know.

[Teresa]

Pamela,
First thing I hate beards and so does my wife, she wears trousers most of the time and has given most of her heels away.
OK so I admit I will be a hypocrite, I don't want a man for a partner, I would want my wife to stay looking female and attractive, I still think she wears skirts and dresses better than trousers.
I would probably be more open to talking it through with her, and if she needed counselling I would certainly support her with that.
How would it affect my dressing ? I would certainly ask for the same openness in return, if she was agreeable yes I would go out with her dressed.
Long term living with it , it would depend on what sort of partner she would want if she crossdressed, would she become a lesbian, or still feel she needs a man ?

[flatlander_48]

Frankly Scarlett, I don't give a damn...

DeeAnn

[StephanieinSecret]

I'll be honest, it sounds fun as hell!
Agreed. I'm not sure we would make it out of the house that first day...

[Shayna]

1. It depends on what Bob wants. If Bob wants to occasionally dress as a man, fine. If it means wearing mens boxers and t-shirts under her clothes, dressing at home, occassionaly going out as a male, being somewhat androgynous I'm all good. If Bob wants to take hormones and lie life as a male, I'm not too certain about that, just as I don't think my wife would stay with me if I wanted to transition. Given my cross dressing perspective though, I might at least give it a try.

2. Pretty much the same I would expect, a lot less than I actually get

3. Not sure how it would change the relationship. I think it would allow be to be a little more submissive, which I kind of lean towards anyway.

[ChristinaK]

I like to put myself in the other person's shoes in a number of areas to assess if my judgement is sound or not. Thus, I totally understand my wife not liking me being Christina.

Conversely, I would not want her to be a CD dude. I would totally allow her and encourage her to do it not in my presence. I absolutely would not want her to cut her hair though.

It would be cool to go out together though if that's the way it had to be for me to dress up with her and go out. The rest of the time I would want my woman to be just that, a girly girl.

[Dorit]

I have to admit I would at first not be comfortable with it. I had a similar experience when we decide to do a Bonnie and Clyde costume evening, and of course I was Bonnie and my SO as Clyde. When she first appeared I was shocked, and could not wait for the evening to end and see her as female again! It gave me a deeper understanding and empathy for non-acceptings wives. Fortunately my wife is completely accepting of me!

[Rhian]

The problem is, you're preaching to the choir here. Most men would be horrified at the idea. Most of us would go along with her, and see where it goes, because WE understand.


Me neither. I find short hair on women to be a real sexual turn off, which is why I understand why women want nothing to do with crossdressers.

That depends upon whether she still found me attractive. Just like not all mtf's are over the top feminine, not all ftm's are over the top masculine. There's a huge gray area to deal with, as we all know.

It's a bit different though as a cross dressing male can take their wig off and be a man again were as a woman can't easily grow her hair back.

[Nikkilovesdresses]

I'd hate it.

Having said that, I find feminine women in trouser suits very attractive, but the thought of walking around with a mannish woman definitely doesn't appeal. That's also why I would never expect my wife to walk around with me dressed as a womanish man.

I could get pretty interested in the strap-on idea, but that would be for the bedroom, not the mall.

[Samantha_Smile]

I'd be upset she cut her hair.... but it could be cute I guess? I dunno
And as I don't go out in general public - shopping would not be on the cards with me in girl mode.
But in drab - sure.

The rest wouldn't bother me to be fair.
Would depend on how often she did it I guess, much in the same way my wife views my own transgenderism.
But if that makes her happy, then I would want her to do it.

Who would it change our relationship? Well that would again depend on the above.
But I'd still be in love with her. She's still the same person.

[Tracii G]

Don't know what I would do actually.
Play it by ear I guess.

[Robin414]

Thought provoking post Pamela, I'd be OK with it I think...minus the face fur (but I don't wear fake boobs either 😉 )

[LilSissyStevie]

It's interesting that many CDs fantasize about dating or having sex with a man but the idea of doing the same with a masculine woman triggers the gag reflex. Things that make you go hmmm!

[flatlander_48]

LSS:

Logic? We don't need no stinkin' logic!?!?!?

DeeAnn

[Eva Bella]

I think about this reverse scenario quite a bit. It's interesting that (it seems) so incredibly rare. It's an interesting study, but seems so unrealistic.

I could deal with this just fine. I could see myself taking her shopping, going out to a bar with her, maybe even attending her events. As long as it was a hobby and it didn't take over our relationship, I would be fine.

I wouldn't find it a turn-on for her to pretend to be a man in bed with me, but I would roll with it every now and then if it was really necessary for her. Which is what I would want in the reverse.

But yeah, her transitioning into a man would probably make me walk away. I imagine it would be the same for her vice-versa

[DeeDeeB]

I would show her the same respect she has shown me over the past regarding my individuality, which has no bounds. It is a basis of our relationship. As to the beard? I had one for most of my life. If she wants a turn, she should go for it. The only no-no would be to try to hide it from me.

Dee :fairy1:

[Krisi]

My wife would never pass as a man so the whole idea is improbable. Also, cutting the hair is a bit more drastic on her part than slipping on a wig is on my part. The rest would be interesting, at least for a while.

One of my fantasies is that there is some sort of pill we could take or chamber we could enter where my wife and I switch bodies for a week or two. I have her body and she has mine. I probably don't have to specify what would happen first, but I'm sure it would be a fun week or two.

[jentay1367]

This thread is awesome! There is so much misogynistic male based nonsense interjected and spewed here, I don't even know where to start. Carry on.

[flatlander_48]

j1:

As they said in the Westerns...

The Old Ways Die Hard.

DeeAnn

[JenniferMBlack]

Sorry I can't deal with Bob as his name but I like to think after the initial shock I'd be supportive with it with a name change, but that's a personal issue with the name Bob.

[sometimes_miss]

It's a bit different though as a cross dressing male can take their wig off and be a man again were as a woman can't easily grow her hair back.
The problem with the premise is, it is commonly used to antagonize crossdressers into making an objection, all in order to make us seem like we have a double standard. Then, when it doesn't happen, you continue to try to push the issue, as you have with the hair example. To what end? How many examples are going to be made in order to annoy someone into saying what you want them to say? Besides, what you're implying by the 'male can take off their wig and be a man again' isn't true either; as the female desire and behavior is already known. Doesn't matter to the women whether we're currently wearing the clothes or not; it's the fact that we want to wear them that now defines us to her. It's not the clothes; it's that we want to wear the clothes. Now do you get it?

[Sharon B.]

I would go with her in girl mode and accept her for who she is, apparently we were both hiding a secret from each other.

[PaulaQ]

1. what is your response/acceptance to Bob?

2. how does this compare to what you expect from your SO when you are dressed?

3. how would this change your relationship to your SO over time?

That would've been super hot if my wife had told me she was actually a trans man. We could've stayed together. Even if we take out the factor of me also being trans, I'd have stayed with him. Seriously, I'd have found a way to make it work. I think our sex life would've improved, btw, at least once I got my head around the fact that I'd always been bi. I believe I'd have stayed with him even if I'd been straight - although there is no doubt in my mind in that case it would've been harder, and we'd have stopped having sex. I loved the person, not their body. But that's a lot of additional hypotheticals to pile onto an already hypothetical situation.

But hey - why stop there - let's suppose he's trans, I'm not, I'm straight (I am so not straight - QAF, even ignoring transness), AND I found that we really couldn't live well together after his transition. Even in that case, I'd have waited until his transition was pretty far along, he was stable, able to make it on his own. I absolutely would not kick him out a couple of months after a suicide attempt and before he was able to get any medical treatment to stabilize him emotionally. Nor would I spend the next three years trying to make his life difficult. We'd split, divorce, and it'd be over. I definitely would NOT have done to him what my wife did to me.

[dee anne]

I hope I would be calm and accepting but until it happens you do not know what your emotions will dictate

- - - Updated - - -

I hope I would calm and accepting but until it happens I do not know what my emontions will dictate

[Stephanie47]

I had to chuckle somewhat when I read your posting. Back in the 1950's there were some guys who did try to make it appear they were more endowed that they actually were by rolling up a sock and putting it into their pants. Idiots! Girls were quick to make jokes about them.

If a woman wants to wear guys clothing, it seems they can pretty much get away with it. It is not taboo. I've seen some pretty sexy looking hot chicks working construction wearing steel toed boots, jeans, flannel shirts and hard hats. They can't full me. They suffer from the same problem trying to provide an illusion. It is their face. Their smile.

I've seen pictures of my wife's cousin's daughter who is transitioning from a woman to a man. He has the stature and facial features that is going to make it difficult to guess his biological sex. I suppose that is good for him moving through the prying eyes of society.

If my wife were to decide to put on a false beard and stuff a sock in her groin area, I'd support her. Forget trying to strap down her breasts. That's not going to work. Being a cross dresser has made me more accepting of others, no matter how they may be different from me.

My wife doing this would not change my beliefs concerning my cross dressing. It would still be my 'private affair.' Except for Halloween I'm not strutting myself down the street.

[Dana44]

I told my SO she could try one of my male boxers. She took me up on it LOL and she has worn them and said they feel good. OH boy, girls can wear anything. But we are weird of we put panties on. But she does wear skirts some times and that's good enough. I hope I haven't started anything... LOL

[Cheryl T]

A: me in boy mode...no arm in arm, but if that's what "he" wants then how can I be hypocritical and deny "him" the same things I have asked for??
B: so long as "he" prefers women (ME that is) then let me fix my face and put on something cute and lets go.

I don't think it would change anything about how we feel about each other. As for other aspects, well, I hope "he" like yard work, home repairs and shoveling snow. I'm not about to break a nail repairing the car, but I can guarantee that "he" will not want for anything at home.

[grace7777]

I have never been married, so this is an issue I have never had to face. If I was married, I could not in good conscience expect my spouse to live by a different standard.

If someday I achieve my goal of transitioning fully to a woman, I think it would be great to have a transman as a partner.

[sometimes_miss]

I told my SO she could try one of my male boxers. She took me up on it LOL and she has worn them and said they feel good. OH boy, girls can wear anything. But we are weird of we put panties on.
Again, we wind up with the 'I just wear girl clothing because it's more comfortable' fallacy. Women's clothing is generally NOT more physically comfortable. For us, it's 'psychologically' comfortable when we wear girl clothes. For women, it's physically comfortable to wear men's clothes. There is a big difference. We're trying to feel feminine. They're just trying to get rid of the irritation of wearing clothes that itch and scratch their skin, pull tight in areas which irritate them. My male Dockers briefs are the most physically comfortable things I own. Thicker cotton than the big three (Hanes, Fruit of the loom, Jockey), and better put together. would I be surprised if a woman found them comfortable as well? Not at all. But women don't wear men's briefs to try to appear manly; we wear women's clothes to feel and appear womanly, even to the point of wearing a bra that has no physical function at all. Has anyone known a TG/TS woman to wear a jockstrap? I hesitate to ask that in a FTM forum.

[heatherdress]

Again, we wind up with the 'I just wear girl clothing because it's more comfortable' fallacy. Women's clothing is generally NOT more physically comfortable. For us, it's 'psychologically' comfortable when we wear girl clothes. For women, it's physically comfortable to wear men's clothes. There is a big difference. We're trying to feel feminine. They're just trying to get rid of the irritation of wearing clothes that itch and scratch their skin, pull tight in areas which irritate them. My male Dockers briefs are the most physically comfortable things I own. Thicker cotton than the big three (Hanes, Fruit of the loom, Jockey), and better put together. would I be surprised if a woman found them comfortable as well? Not at all. But women don't wear men's briefs to try to appear manly; we wear women's clothes to feel and appear womanly, even to the point of wearing a bra that has no physical function at all. Has anyone known a TG/TS woman to wear a jockstrap? I hesitate to ask that in a FTM forum.

I disagree. You cannot speak for how all women feel and I do not think you are accurate. I have worked with several women and had a few neighbors who dressed frequently in items of men's clothing and they commonly explained that they like the look or the appearance. Women do not seem to simply wear men's clothing because it is more comfortable. And I am not sure that all men who crossdress wear female clothing simply to feel womanly or to appear womanly. Many on this site admit that they always maintain their masculinity even when dressed. I do not feel womanly when dressed. I feel sexy and I like how I feel, but I do not feel womanly and do not even know what it is like to feel womanly. And many on this site who are crossdressers admit that they underdress, or only wear heels, or only wear ladies night wear in private, or still maintain their beards or facial hair when dressed. Most crossdressers know they do not appear to be female when dressed but do so anyway because it feels good. It is not for the womanly appearance. Can a 6 foot, 275 pound, muscular, hairy guy ever appear to be womanly when dressed? Yet we do because it feels good. We probably will never know why we wear women's clothing but we do so because of the pleasure it gives us and if some of us think we feel or appear womanly, that is fine. But it is not the reason we crossdress. It is more a side effect of crossdressing. And there is a double standard of acceptance society has related to crossdressing. It is generally OK for women to wear men's clothing but society is generally not OK with men wearing women's clothing. That's just the way it is.

[Sissy_Michelle]

Pamela,

Very interesting conversation you've started. I have enjoyed reading most of the comments above. So I guess I'll add my two cents...

First, my wife and I have a deal about my dressing. Not around our son, and not fully dressed outside the house. With those requirements known...

A
One: Yes would fully support her decision and go shopping with her.
Two: Vastly, where I would accept it and go with whatever she wanted to experience, she is more reserved and I doubt she would leave the house.
Three: This question would be hard for me to answer, my Chrystal ball is broken and seeing the future is quite difficult when looking at someone else's views or what might happen. Although I have told her that she is my soul mate and have told me the same several times. I believe if I was in guy mode I would still be accepting of her. Though I am sure her family would have some concerns...

B
One: Well anytime we go shopping for clothes I have always thought of myself in "girl mode" so there wouldn't be a difference, except that I was with a good looking guy.
Two: well I would impose the same requirements and restrictions she put on me when we first set out the ground rules.
Three: I would still have the same answer as I put above if I was in guy mode.

@--}----
Michelle