Change in Sexuality

[prettygirl4]

Hi everyone, has anyone noticed a change in sexuality during transitioning? Before transitioning, I was really only into women. Since transitioning however, I'm just crazy for men and women are really just platonic for me. I think it must have something to do with hrt, and I'm going to ask my therapist about it. I was just wondering if anyone else has experienced this.

[phylis anne]

I agree ask your therapist does sound interesting though

[Cristy2]

I'm not a doctor and don't pretend to be, but I have heard and read several trans-women say the exact same thing, so I assume that it would be safe to say that hormonal change of HRT does effect sexual orientation to some degree. How much? I have no clue, but like most everything I assume it would boil down to ones body chemistry and hormonal balance. Just a personal opinion.

[I Am Paula]

The usual caveat- I'm no expert. I have lots of trans friends who became interested in men after transition. My theory- HRT can NOT change your sexual nature, but it may bring to the surface that which you have been hiding, or denying.

[Laurie Ann]

I agree with Paula I have considered myself bisexual before starting HRT but now have only interest in males and all they have to give me.

[AllieSF]

Paula, maybe a better way of saying it is that HRT and maybe just the whole process of transitioning mentally and physically also offers new freedoms to experiment, to let one try new things, including sexual partners. Whether the apparently new sexual side of oneself is already there and never explored or it is something new to be tried and accepted or rejected, who really knows? I have met many heterosexual people who later in life became bisexual or gay, and even a few gay people who switched to heterosexual. In reality it should never be an issue for anyone. More like maturing over time and changing our tastes in food, beverages, others' personalities and sexual preferences. For those that have an issue, maybe they have some hidden phobias that have not yet addressed?

[Cristy2]

Very interesting angle Allie. Makes very good sense.

[Barbara Dugan]

Just on my personal experience HRT hasn't changed my sexuality. What I've noticed its that my capacity to feel emotions and feel love has increased tenfold. Its hard to describe but its a great way to feel.

[ReineD]

I don’t know if you put much stock in clinical studies, but some clinicians have studied this. In 2014, a group in Germany surveyed 115 transitioners and found that about one third of MtF changed their sexual orientation:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4192544/

A group of American researchers in 2013 surveyed 452 individuals across the LGBT spectrum and determined that two thirds of transitioners reported a change in sexual attractions post-transition:

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00224499.2014.1003028

I don’t know if these results would hold on a massive survey of tens of thousands of people and it would be interesting to explore why the results are double in the US vs. Germany.


From a personal observational point of view, the bulk of people that I know have not changed their sexual orientations over their lifetimes.

[STACY B]

Maybe it's just Normal to want to be seen as NORMAL,, Guy with Girl,, Girl with Guy,, No public Shame , Looks normal enough to everyone, People just really want to be left alone and go on with Life. So maybe MtF After Transition fully they just drift off towards So called Normal? And vice versa? Maybe,, We spend out lives going against the grain,, Then start transition against the grain, All of our lives are a Lie, Maybe once someone Transition and is satisfied with the outcome they go the other way to finally be normal so to speak?

An then there is ME,,,lol,,, Normal is what I run from,, So don't look for me to jump the fence,, I like to run things and don't take orders well,, I don't play well with other nor do I like Authority figures,, I like to Drive,,lol,,,

[Georgette_USA]

1st link interesting study. Could not read 2nd link.
Think it would be hard to find tens of thousands to respond. Don't know if anyone has tried to actually figure out the totals, as their study is not limited to just SRS.
Agree 115 and 452 is small in relation to possible size. Would be good to have 1000-2000 at a minimum.

Hard to define sexuality/attraction, not using terms like Homosexual or Heterosexual. Like that they use the Male/Female/BI/none.

I like Allie's idea, I think the transition/HRT allows us to think outside our original box and experiment and maturing.
To Allie, To say one goes from Heterosexual to Homosexual means what. A MtF likes women/Heterosexual, transitions and then likes women/Homosexual. Is that a change or stays the same attraction.

I like Barbara's idea that it changes our capacity to feel all emotions and types of love. I know I am very emotional and loving Post HRT/transition.

To me there is a difference in sexual attraction and emotional/romantic.
I think I fall into the initial sexual attraction to none. Felt emotional/romantic with women, but not the typical Male to Female sexual. Never even thought of men either way.

I have found I can be sexually attracted to both, but have not had any emotional/romantic with men YET. Have not given up on it happening.

Post transition, my sexual attraction to women was finally able to happen, in the Female to Female sense.

During and Post transition, my partner and I had the emotional/romantic for each other, 38 years worth, but she was just not into sex before or after at all.
Now without that emotional/romantic connection, found my mental libido has gone crazy.

[ariannavt]

While I don't think HRT has changed my sexuality, I think I had some issues that I needed to work through. Accepting who I am has let me explore my sexuality more fully. Prior to HRT, and this phase of my life, I would have said that I was purely interested in women - both sexually and romantically. Now, I would say that I am romantically interested in primarily women, and sexually interested in... well.. anyone that floats my boat. While most of my sexual daydreams are now centered around men, I chalk that mostly up to a stronger interest due to lack of experience.

Of course all of this is moot as I am quite happily married. :)

[PaulaQ]

I think given that we hide our identity from the world, it isn't surprising we'd hide our sexual orientation too. Between bi erasure, and the pressure to be straight, and hey, if you are lying about who you are, may as well lie about who you are attracted to, and the general lack of understanding that romantic attraction isn't the same as sexual attraction, it's a wonder any of us can figure out our sexual orientation at all!

I think it is hard to reach conclusions about whether or not our fundamental orientation changes, or it simply is revealed during transition, since we are finally open and honest about ourselves.

[Jennifer-GWN]

Listen to Paula... She sized me up pretty quick and shot me between my eyes in a short exchange. ��

[PennyNZ]

Hec - I have no desire to be with a male

But I hear you all and it is a shock that I "could" change partner preferences.

Mind you I have only been on hrt 3 months

[AllieSF]

To Allie, To say one goes from Heterosexual to Homosexual means what. A MtF likes women/Heterosexual, transitions and then likes women/Homosexual. Is that a change or stays the same attraction.

Georgette, I really do understand the can of worms associated with that question and will leave it to the birds and fish to open it up and do what they normally do. But basically, new freedoms and less hidden secrets can be mentally contagious and lead to new thoughts and additional unrealized truths if given a chance, and maybe lead new desires and less inhibition to test the waters. I sometimes think that we all have a Bi gene somewhere deep inside of us, but the survival of the species gene dominates. Why can't we just extend that old saying of "Love the inside and not the outside wrapping" to sexuality?

[PaulaQ]

Georgette, I really do understand the can of worms associated with that question and will leave it to the birds and fish to open it up and do what they normally do.

To the question Georgette_USA asked - it would be "stays the same" - they are still attracted only to women.

There are a number of things that are messed up about the terminology we use for sexual orientations:
1. The monosexual orientations - heterosexual or homosexual are defined as attraction to one gender relative to your own gender, and that of your partner. If your gender is perceived as changing, the definitions become really muddy and confusing. And also hilarious - it is just funny sometimes watching a bunch of straight trans women become all conservative when they used to be perceived as hyper-queer gay dudes. And even funnier, is watching a bunch of totally queer trans women try to figure out how to fit into the queer culture after having lived totally in straight culture....

2. The non-monosexual orientations - bisexual / asexual / queer - don't actually change as you transition. The terms are not relative to your gender, and that of your partner.

3. bisexuality is erased. You'll see people go to all kinds of lengths to avoid saying "I'm bi." You'll see really screwed up stuff like scientific studies that talk about women who have sex with other women - and then only talk about lesbians, even though there are twice as many bisexual women as lesbians.

4. Your sexual orientation is presumed, based on your apparent partner. For people who are bi, there is overwhelming pressure to appear straight. Now you don't always have control over who you fall in love with, and who you might be attracted to at any given moment, but you can certainly put yourself in situations where you are more likely to find a partner of one gender or the other, and hope nature takes its course. Given my desire throughout my life to be "normal", I am completely unsurprised now that I was with a woman before transition, and with a man after transition.

BTW, I'm not ruling out hormones having an effect and stuff. I just think the water is so muddy that we don't really know yet.

P.S. For people who care, being with men and women is a very different experience. I like both a lot. But the feelings I have are different between the two.
P.P.S. I no longer care about being "normal." (i.e. a nice monogamous, vanilla, straight girl.) I'm not normal, not even close. I can pass for "normal" when I try.

[Zooey]

Technically it's just "bi with a tendency", but I identified as "heteroflexible" prior to transition. I still identify as heteroflexible, with the flip in tendency that comes along with my transition.

I don't want to get into too much fluffy anecdotal HRT stuff, but I will say that men smell different to me now, and in a very good way.

[Kate T]

Interesting

I agree with PaulaQ and Reine that honestly I suspect that most peoples sexuality / what they are attracted do doesn't change a massive amount, it is more a revelation / suppression that with transition becomes unnecessary.

Unfortunately I suspect that we can only garner so much from clinical studies. Don't forget that until relatively recently for MTF transexuals attraction to males was considered an important prerequisite for admission to GRS programs as it was deemed that those who were attracted to women would not have "normal" sex lives afterwards. We obviously now know that that is most certainly not the case. I also wonder how many MTF's sexuality is still influenced by a heteronormative society pressure, it is VERY hard to rebel against that when every part of society tends to treat hetero (or at least ostensibly male:female) couples in a less discriminatory manner.

For what it is worth, didn't change a thing for me. Always was attracted to females, still am. Curiously I too tend to find I smell men more now but I have the opposite response to Zooey, it is actually quite repellent for me. On an even more curious level I can also now smell my wife more and I REALLY like it!!

[PaulaQ]

... but I will say that men smell different to me now, and in a very good way.

Ditto. I've noticed this too.

[Angiemead12]

I am 5 months into HRT and I am still attracted to women and girls like us. Men don't do it for me and most of the time gross me out.

[Georgette_USA]

Don't forget that until relatively recently for MTF transexuals attraction to males was considered an important prerequisite for admission to GRS programs as it was deemed that those who were attracted to women would not have "normal" sex lives afterwards.


Not sure what ATTRACTION to males means. Does that mean one is sexually turned on by males, or that one has sex with males.
There was NO requirement that I and my group ever heard of that in the US. I and the others would have had a problem with that. I recently saw a video that in UK that might of have been such.

To Zooey and others
I wish we could get away from the terms Hetero- and Homo-. Those terms become almost meaningless with respect to MtF and FtM prior and post any HRT/SRS. I have NO problems with the term BI- or as in myself Pan-.
Really "bi with a tendency", what are we splitting hairs even more.
Introduced the term Hetero-flexible and Homo-flexible to friends, that got a laugh out of them. I guess that is BI- with not even split 50/50.

To Paula and Allie
I know what the answer is. Trying to get a response from Allie to explain her statement, and I really do not understand her response. See my view on Hetero- and Homo- above.

[pamela7]

PaulaQ seems to have it all sussed, as usual. :-)
Having been bi in my youth I tend to the opinion people are simply "sexual", and society then brings about mono/hetero conditions that don't fit. Having said that I just don't find men appealing at all these days, and I can appreciate I'll only know if that changes post-op. I already have an acute sense of smell and consciously smell/taste pheromones, male or female. I suspect any such male would have to be very feminine, effectively at least cd-trans for me to be visually attracted.
When I was into porn, I was into lesbian porn; and that was before I self-realised as to my transness.

[JohnH]

As stated in my signature I have been on M2F HRT for over 4 years. I am still strongly attracted to women. The thought of my getting intimate with a man grosses me out.

Johanna (John)

[Zooey]

I wish we could get away from the terms Hetero- and Homo-. Those terms become almost meaningless with respect to MtF and FtM prior and post any HRT/SRS.

How so? I am attracted primarily to men. I am a woman. I do not feel like the hetero prefix is meaningless here.

The only way what you say is true is if we are exclusively talking about genitals, rather than gender. I am attracted to men, and while I quite enjoy the "standard male equipment" on a partner, it's not what defines my attraction to men.

[flatlander_48]

If we say that sexual orientation changed, that would suggest that reversion therapy works; only we know it doesn't. I think you are what you are, whether you know it or not.

DeeAnn

[Barbara Dugan]

About the smell, I always had an attraction to Men scent, before HRT my boyfriend smelled nice to me, now after a few months on HRT his scent drives me wild and I just want to be close to him.

[Zooey]

If we say that sexual orientation changed, that would suggest that reversion therapy works; only we know it doesn't. I think you are what you are, whether you know it or not.

Well, first of all, I said I was bi with a really strong preference before, and I still am, but my preference changed.

That said, I don't think what I'm describing is in any way, shape, or form analogous to reversion/conversion therapy. Such approaches try to convince somebody to be something they aren't. In my case, what I am has quite literally physically changed, and that has lots of far reaching effects on how I perceive a lot of things.

If I was born with non-functional sweetness receptors in my tongue, I might not care so much for dark chocolate because all I get from it is bitter. If I underwent a medical procedure to activate my receptors, and I suddenly find dark chocolate delicious, does that mean was I brainwashed?

[Georgette_USA]

The reason "Hetero" and "Homo" mean so little in people with GID/GD or whatever they want to call it now. I will use MtF for discussion purposes. I will make some general language and assumptions.

Once we realize we have GID/GD our Gender identity would be woman, and that does not change no matter how we progress.

Before the GID/GD is realized would be Hetero with women and Homo with men. After GID/GD is realized would be Homo with women and Hetero with men.
If NO HRT/SRS then which would be correct, I think the second. If HRT and/or SRS, then Hetero with men and Homo with women.

I can see where the terms "hetero-flexible" and "Homo-flexible" could be useful. As splitting hairs instead of just using BI. When I discussed these with friends, they all gave a what and laughed.
I always considered my self as BI after realized GID/GD and later after HRT/SRS. But research led to Pan-sexual, as the sexual attraction to a person of any sex or gender, which includes Trans and inter-sexed. I have to explain that to most people in and out of the Trans world.

For the vast majority of the population, they think in Genitals when identifying sexual orientation. If sex with same Genitals = Homo, different Genitals = Hetero.

The scientific terms as used in the study might be better descriptors, but good luck on getting them to be used.
Androphilia and gynephilia are terms used in behavioral science to describe sexual orientation, as an alternative to a gender binary homosexual and heterosexual conceptualization.
Androphilia describes sexual attraction to men or masculinity, gynephilia describes the sexual attraction to women or femininity.
Ambiphilia describes the combination of both androphilia and gynephilia in a given individual, or bisexuality.


To Zooey
Don't know your whole story but stated "bi with a tendency", means what "Women/Men with tendency" to what,
but I identified as "heteroflexible" prior to transition. Still identify as heteroflexible, with the flip in tendency.
So I assume before attracted to Women with some Men, and reversed to Men with some Women.

Do you see why the terms of Hetero and Homo are confusing in the world of GID/GD, and even more so with the non-binary or Gender Fluid/Nonconforming/Queer.

- - - Updated - - -


If I was born with non-functional sweetness receptors in my tongue, I might not care so much for dark chocolate because all I get from it is bitter. If I underwent a medical procedure to activate my receptors, and I suddenly find dark chocolate delicious, does that mean was I brainwashed?


I love most anything in Dark chocolate or Bittersweet chocolate. I think I like the bitter better, hard to take Unsweetened chocolate. As kids most find Milk chocolate preferable. Over time mine shifted from Milk to Dark. Don't care much for Milk anymore. Diagnosed with Type 2 diabetes 10 years ago. Don't know if that has any correlation.

[Zooey]

260842

I'm not going to address gender-fluid folks, because I don't understand them well enough to make any kind of argument.

When it comes to binary folks though... If you believe, as I do, that trans women are women and trans men are men, then I really don't get what you're trying to say. If you think that genitals are the sole defining characteristic of what makes a woman a woman for the purposes of sexuality (to the extent that we "render the words meaningless"), then I'll just hit the ejector button now because we're going to be at an impasse.

At this point in my life, I am attracted 99% to men, and occasionally to a woman. So yes, I'm bi, but I prefer to use heteroflexible whenever I can because it carries the tone of my sexuality. I'm actively interested in men, but I'm open to meeting an amazing woman.

[Georgette_USA]

When it comes to binary folks though... If you believe, as I do, that trans women are women and trans men are men, then I really don't get what you're trying to say. If you think that genitals are the sole defining characteristic of what makes a woman a woman for the purposes of sexuality (to the extent that we "render the words meaningless"), then I'll just hit the ejector button now because we're going to be at an impasse.


Zooey I don't think we are that far apart in thinking. I don't think we are at an impasse, just different views on terminology.

I said "For the vast majority of the population, they think in Genitals when identifying sexual orientation. If sex with same Genitals = Homo, different Genitals = Hetero.".
Which is why some of THEM have a problem with TG folk. For them if born with male bits, you are a male. Even if you fix that, they will say you are still not a women. To them they think genitals = gender or sex.
You cannot apply logical thinking with those people.

I do not believe genitals are what defines sexuality. I think our Gender Identity does that, and the same as you that Trans Women are Women, with or without HRT/SRS. I just think the idea of Hetero and Homo can be confusing references for TG folk, when talking with people that don't fully grasp the idea of Gender Identity.
Which is why in the study they used the scientific naming of androphilia and gynephilia and Ambiphilia. Not much luck in getting people to understand those terms. In most of the TG support groups I attend, sexual preferences are not talked about.

Which is why I started using the BI reference for myself, but prefer women. So I guess I would be "Homo-flexible". "hetero-flexible" and "Homo-flexible" could be useful but I think the vast non TG population does not think in those terms. Even some of the TG, both TS and CD, folk that I talk with about sex have never heard of that. I never heard of those terms before my re-education of the whole TG world since coming back to it.

For me in the Lesbian world, I avoid the BI or TG/TS, as some Lesbians don't like that. In the LGBT world proof that even in the LG part some will not accept the B or T, at least sexually.

[Megan G]

I just think the idea of Hetero and Homo can be confusing references for TG folk, when talking with people that don't fully grasp the idea of Gender Identity.
.

Actually from my experiences when I came out to friends and family they had a very firm grasp on this. Once they wrapped their minds around the fact that my gender identity was female and they started to acknowledge that I was a woman one of the first questions was if I was a lesbian (or Homo) since they knew I was attracted to females and was married to a woman.

After over 2.5 years I am still solidly attracted to women, HRT did not effect sexual attraction at all...

[flatlander_48]

Well, first of all, I said I was bi with a really strong preference before, and I still am, but my preference changed.

That sounds like your basic orientation did not change and that was the point.

DeeAnn

[MonicaJean]

I tried to like men, I really did. I thought it would be easier to get a date. Alas, nothing about men I have ever found attractive, before HRT or now 20 months into it. I can't stand their smell, facial hair, nothing. It would gross me out, fer sure, totally :)

No change at all for me.

[Mary Lee]

Several years ago I was on HRT. I started to find interest in males. Because of bad reaction to estrogen pills I stopped HRT and the attraction to men went away.
My shrink last month suggested I hang around with Bi and Gay men and either dry hump them or have other sex with them so I would know what it is somewhat like having a sexual relation as a woman with a man. At this time I don't think so and I believe my shrink should not have said that. I am not currently on HRT. I am seeing my VA endo tomorrow so hopefully she will write a scrip for patches and I will not have a bad reaction to the patch. I had to stop smoking and I have not smoke for 2 months. If I start feeling more fem using the patch then maybe I will think about males but right now I would like to have a lesbian relationship or maybe a Tgirl.