help! I am a lesbian stuck in crossdressing mans body

[summerbunny]

what can a Tgurl do?
I can not take it any more.
i dread carrying the burdon.

A LIPSTICK LESBIAN not the butch queen are butch lesbian type.

[Sara Jessica]

No. If you are a dude, then you are a hetero male.

[Georgette_USA]

A Lipstick Lesbian in a TG/CD person can work out. It can take time and some putting yourself out there for some turn downs.


Also know some MtF TG/TS that are transitioning in a more or less Lesbian affair. After HRT the male parts become somewhat irrelevant to some.

Being a BI/Pan Lipstick Lesbian myself, I can understand the frustration. I don't want to restrict myself to just woman, but would like to try the same with TG/CD types myself.

[MissDanielle]

I would suggest talking to a therapist so that you can get started on HRT.

- - - Updated - - -


No. If you are a dude, then you are a hetero male.

not necessarily. some of us around the boards are definitely TS but needed time to figure that out. The OP is attracted to women and she says she is trans so that makes her a lesbian.

[ReineD]

"Lesbian" can be an odd term here. The term is used to describe women (with female bodies) attracted to other women (with female bodies). So the term refers to one’s body more than one’s gender identity.

But in this community, some members who feel an attraction to being feminine without making plans to live as a woman full time, take it this qualifies them to call themselves women. They can certainly refer to themselves as women, but the people they deal with every day won’t see them as women and so they’ll be confused (.. if the person calling themselves a woman or lesbian presents as a male).

Since you say in your thread title that you're a crossdresser, I'm assuming this means you plan on retaining your male body. If this is the case, sorry but you're not lesbian. If you don't want to call yourself hetero (which implies a man attracted to a woman), then why don't you simply say that you are "female-attracted", which you indeed are. Unlike the term "lesbian", saying you are "female-attracted" only identifies who you are attracted to - not who you are - and so saying you are "female-attracted" can apply whether you are a man, a woman, in between, both, or none of those.

Or, if you enjoy fantasizing about being a lesbian, then go ahead, but this is different than actually being one. If you ever do decide that you are not a CDer but are indeed transsexual and you end up getting the surgeries, legal name change, and living as a woman 24/7, then it would be more accurate to describe yourself as a lesbian.

[Lacey New]

Fascinating discussion. It has always been a fantasy of mine to be intimate with a GG while dressed as a woman. I am not attracted to other men even other CDs in any kind of sexual way. So, I guess I've always thought of myself as - at least - a fantasy male lesbian. Now After reading this, I guess I'm just a hetero CD. So now I know what pigeon hole I am in.

[ariannavt]

I would suggest talking to a therapist so that you can get started on HRT.

- - - Updated - - -



not necessarily. some of us around the boards are definitely TS but needed time to figure that out. The OP is attracted to women and she says she is trans so that makes her a lesbian.


I agree! It can take a LOT of time to figure it out. In high school I, jokingly, many times referred to myself as a lesbian. I then proceeded to live my life as male up until the age of 37. At which point everything in my life sort of clicked, and I realized I was TS.

[Megan G]

.
Since you say in your thread title that you're a crossdresser, I'm assuming this means you plan on retaining your male body. If this is the case, sorry but you're not lesbian. .
.

I have to echo Reine's post as she hit the nail on the head with the quoted post. At the end of the day it all boils down to how you self identify.

You say your a lesbian stuck in a cross dressing mans body, what does that mean to you? Does that mean that you identify as a woman internally? Do you feel that your gender identity is female?

Or do you simply see yourself as a male identified CD'er that is attracted to women? In this case sorry but your not a lesbian.

And as for the stuck comment, it is never to late to live an authentic life but you have to be willing to put in the work and stop dreaming, it's freekin hard work and that does not include living inside your head dreaming....

[Teresa]

Summerbunny,
I've read Reine's answer, it should ring totally true but somehow it doesn't.
I've had gender counseling to get to the bottom of my feelings, I explained to her how my CDing started and the dreams I had at the time. She consulted with other members of her team before coming back with the answer that my male and female side were in conflict and the female side was trying to take control. I lived with the feelings for so many years before coming to terms with this, so now the nearest description I can come to is a male lesbian, my counselor saw no problem with that after we had gone through all this. I know I'm just on the male side of TS, the important point is it doesn't tear me apart anymore now I know and understand this, I do accept that any thoughts on transition have come too late in life, the important thing is I can look back on my male life and say I've done a good enough job and can be satisfied with it. Transition now would take most of that away and possibly leave me with nothing, so I choose to put to put the satisfaction of that before my gender needs.

In either mode I would still be attracted to women, a male relationship doesn't come into it, I wouldn't worry about what particular style you think you might be just try and come to terms with how you feel .

[pamela7]

Summerbunny, then join the TS part of the forum and start dialogue with the rest of us like you :-)

[Jenniferathome]

So you are a genetic male, calling yourself a cross dresser, and yet you are making a distinction that you are certain stereotype of a group of women? The nature of stereotypes is that they are based on external visuals. YOU don't get to decide how people perceive you. If you were really a lesbian you would not distinguish the visual, you'd just be. This only proves you are not a lesbian.

[Melissa Rose]

As others have said and using a more literal definition of lesbian, you are not a lesbian. If you identify as male and are attracted only to women or to men and women then you are a bi- or heterosexual male regardless of how you are dressed. Gender expression is disconnected from sexual orientation. You may fantasize about being a woman and being with another woman in a sexual manner, but fantasy is not reality. It is the combination of your biological sex and gender identity that is connected to your sexual orientation.

[Tracii G]

I agree with Melissa on this one.
You sound a bit confused.

[ReineD]

So, I guess I've always thought of myself as - at least - a fantasy male lesbian. Now After reading this, I guess I'm just a hetero CD. So now I know what pigeon hole I am in.

My opinion? "Fantasy lesbian" is perfectly OK! It's good to have fantasies. But saying just "lesbian" is confusing when someone identifies as a male CDer. IMO.

[Melissa Rose]

Fantasy lesbian - I love it!

[Sara Jessica]

not necessarily. some of us around the boards are definitely TS but needed time to figure that out. The OP is attracted to women and she says she is trans so that makes her a lesbian.

Hey, I'm as TS as anyone around here but given my commitment to NOT transitioning, I'm not going to run around claiming to be a lesbian. That is just plain silly. The term is thrown about these pages with way too much ease.

It is a stretch enough for many of us to refer to ourselves and others as "she" but I wouldn't have that any other way. It makes sense based on how we identify and present to the outside world (whether IRL, in pictures and/or in writing). But to use "lesbian" based on how we identify? I'm sorry but if you live as a male and have dude parts which you are using those with a female, you are kind of/sort of/perhaps totally/undoubtedly a hetero male.

Transitioned or transitioning? That is an entirely different conversation altogether. Many on the CD'er side of the fence describe themselves as lesbians because it just seems so cool. Nonsense.

[Tracii G]

I find the" I'm a Lesbian " comment from a CDer a bit silly too.

[Georgette_USA]

"Lesbian" can be an odd term here. The term is used to describe women (with female bodies) attracted to other women (with female bodies). So the term refers to one’s body more than one’s gender identity.
Since you say in your thread title that you're a crossdresser, I'm assuming this means you plan on retaining your male body. If this is the case, sorry but you're not lesbian.
If you ever do decide that you are not a CDer but are indeed transsexual and you end up getting the surgeries, legal name change, and living as a woman 24/7, then it would be more accurate to describe yourself as a lesbian.


I am glad it takes a Female at Birth "GG" to say such things.

This is one of the many things I have had to re-think since coming back to the Trans community. Have had to change my old ways of thinking on many things.

I have heard many say they are Lesbian, but may not have had the full surgeries. I have thought it would be elitist of me to pass judgement on others. So many say that some TG/TS act or talk like if others don't do it all, we are passing judgement.

My early life, there was only one way to become and have the legal privilege of being a woman. I did all the above, because that was the only way I knew of.
I guess as you say one could be a fantasy Lesbian. I think that is what I thought of myself prior to surgeries. There was NO male in my boy parts. I could only fantasize having FtF sex.

Also have problems with some men subverting female anatomy naming to their own uses. I am a very literal person at times and will use the proper naming for body parts. But will bite my tongue when others do this, if it makes them feel whatever.

[LelaK]

My Body is NOT Me. It's my vehicle that was given to me. I'm the Driver. The Driver is Female or Feminine, driving a Masculine vehicle. The Driver is attracted to other Females and is therefore a Lesbian.

[Krystenw]

I am complete and totally me.
The thought of being with a man sickens me almost as much as starting to dress as one again.
My wife of 42 years and I have never been happier.
Sorry, I guess I don't go for labels.

[ReineD]

The Driver is Female or Feminine, driving a Masculine vehicle. The Driver is attracted to other Females and is therefore a Lesbian.

With all due respect, Lela, if the Driver is attracted to females, then why don't you simply say that you are "female-attracted". This would be accurate, wouldn't it? And you would not be defining yourself as a male in the process?

If you have a male body and you live your life as a male (if the people around you have no idea, based on your presentation, that you are not a male), then people will indeed scratch their heads when you tell them you are lesbian. You're taking a word that has a specific definition that is understood by the vast majority of people and you're applying your very own definition to it. Doing this is the same as deciding that from now on, you'll be calling the color green, "orange". You can insist that grass is orange all you like, but people will not believe you.

But, you could certainly describe yourself clearly by saying, "I have a female gender identity even though I have not transitioned, and I am female-attracted", without compromising yourself.

[Beverley Sims]

Too mush overthinking here, labels are for cans.

They do tie labels on the big toe of corpses in some places.

That being said there is at least one place that uses bar codes on a label around the wrist.

[LelaK]

With all due respect, Lela, if the Driver is attracted to females, then why don't you simply say that you are "female-attracted". This would be accurate, wouldn't it? And you would not be defining yourself as a male in the process?

If you have a male body and you live your life as a male (if the people around you have no idea, based on your presentation, that you are not a male), then people will indeed scratch their heads when you tell them you are lesbian. You're taking a word that has a specific definition that is understood by the vast majority of people and you're applying your very own definition to it. Doing this is the same as deciding that from now on, you'll be calling the color green, "orange". You can insist that grass is orange all you like, but people will not believe you.

But, you could certainly describe yourself clearly by saying, "I have a female gender identity even though I have not transitioned, and I am female-attracted", without compromising yourself.
I already did say I'm female-attracted. And I have a female personality identity, a Lesbian identity. I only share that with people who seem likely to be accepting. So there aren't likely to be many people scratching their heads. And it's okay if anyone does anyway. No one but me is likely to be able to perceive my identity, so, if my body has green skin, my identity could still be orange and it wouldn't be a falsehood to say that. Actually, my inner self has light or fair skin (that's more than skin-deep).

[Kate Simmons]

Help, I've fallen and I can't get up. :)

[Krisi]

You are a male crossdresser who is sexually attracted to females. Most of us here are exactly that. You are not and cannot be a "lesbian" unless you make up a new definition for the term. And, although there probably aren't any actual lesbians reading this forum, your post is insulting to "real" lesbians.

[LelaK]

I'm a real Lesbian, and I'm not insulted.

[ReineD]

OK Lela, whatever. :)

Let me know how it goes the next time you meet a woman you're interested in dating, and you tell her you are a lesbian.

[Krisi]

This is the Internet where we can be whatever we want to be. I am a retired major league baseball star with several hitting records. I also used to be a big rock and roll star. :devil:

Seriously though, I know (am related to) a couple "real" lesbians and I don't think they would be amused by someone who straps on a pair of boobs and a wig from time to time and calls himself a lesbian. Internet or not.

[Georgette_USA]

And, although there probably aren't any actual lesbians reading this forum, your post is insulting to "real" lesbians.


I will assume you mean any FAB "GG" type Lesbians. I sure hate all these terms and constantly re-defining them to suit themselves.

I am definitely a "real" Lesbian, with BI tendencies. Not all Lesbians are exclusively such from day one, chat with some that have had or still have sex with men. I had affairs with other Lesbians years ago, and my partner and I lived as two Lesbians for 38 years.
I know of others like myself that had and are still in Lesbian affairs.

I don't feel overly insulted by the posters and others on their idea of being a Lesbian, just questioning how that works for them. If it makes you feel comfortable with your self, GOOD LUCK with most "real" Lesbians. All the other Lesbians I chat with, and what I have done with, do things that someone with "male" parts cannot do. Which is what I think Reine was getting at.

[MissDanielle]

You are a male crossdresser who is sexually attracted to females. Most of us here are exactly that. You are not and cannot be a "lesbian" unless you make up a new definition for the term. And, although there probably aren't any actual lesbians reading this forum, your post is insulting to "real" lesbians.
And there are those lesbians who were born with the wrong body but just needed time to figure things out before transitioning and starting HRT.

I'm finding that I identity more with the TS section of the forum than this section.

[ReineD]

And there are those lesbians who were born with the wrong body but just needed time to figure things out before transitioning and starting HRT.

MissDanielle, you mention transitioning. I don't think that anyone is saying that female-attracted trans women are not lesbians.

This thread was started by a male-identified crossdresser. Two different gender identities.

[LelaK]

OK Lela, whatever. :)

Let me know how it goes the next time you meet a woman you're interested in dating, and you tell her you are a lesbian.

You sound kind of sarcastic. Am I right?

As for: "This thread was started by a male-identified crossdresser. Two different gender identities" - my impression is that she was describing herself first from her own view and then from others' view of her, i.e. her view: lesbian; others' view: male crossdresser.

[ReineD]

Yes, there was a touch of sarcasm there. :p

You are looking for a new girlfriend, and getting a new girlfriend is more important than dressing? (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?239706-Attractive-or-quot-Meh-take-it-or-leave-it-quot&p=3939973&viewfull=1#post3939973)? If you define yourself as a lesbian to a new girlfriend, she will not see you as one, no matter how much you say you are, just like she will not believe that grass is orange when you tell her that it is. On the other hand, if you were transitioned - with the surgeries, legal markers changed, having lived full time as a woman for some years with no one perceiving you as a male, then you would be perceived as a lesbian because you would have been perceived as a woman for quite some time.

However, you can certainly call yourself a lesbian and still live your life as a man if you want to. That's up to you. But your definition of the word will differ from your new girlfriend's definition, and so what would be the point.

[LelaK]

"However, you can certainly call yourself a lesbian and still live your life as a man if you want to. That's up to you. But your definition of the word will differ from your new girlfriend's definition, and so what would be the point."[?]

I don't consider myself to be living as a man. I'm okay with my GF disagreeing with definitions, if she wants to. I'm okay with people not understanding me too. Just so I get a compatible GF.

[becky77]

Oh dear!

If you honestly believe you are a Lesbian then you have to be at the very least TS as in female identified.

A previous post doesn't strike me that you are TS?

Thanks, Di. So far, I only have an occasional strong desire to CD. And, as I showed, that's defined as a fetish. Some say it progresses, but I don't know that it does. It has progressed for me when I'm alone, but it didn't when I had a GF; it regressed. And some have said they stopped crossdressing entirely. So I think it's honest for me to say at this point that it's a fetish for me. My self-image is more feminine, but women seem to like the way gay men dress, so that doesn't seem to matter.


I don't really consider it a definite need, but a desire, so I should more accurately say I occasionally have "a strong desire for something", namely, crossdressing.


If you feel there is more to this than we appear to be reading then by all means come to the TS section and introduce yourself, if you don't see yourself as TS then stop this nonsence.

[Teresa]

Lelak,
I'm inclined to agree with you on this one, I feel the same as you , if others don't get what we feel inside then there's nothing we can do about it.
I had to dig deep with my counselor to get to the bottom of it and when she consulted the rest of the team they had to agree the nearest description was male lesbian. Whether it is a recognised term I feel I understand that part of me, I am content knowing it ties all the pieces together in my mind. A female side of me is attracted to women, I partly dress to attract a woman. OK I accept that's a rarity to find a GG that does like it but it doesn't change how I feel. I have been harshly criticized at times for pushing the issue of wanting to share my Cding with my wife, but it's like a double dose of affection for a woman, my male side is naturally attracted and also my female side is.
In a discussion with my wife she obviously said she's not a lesbian, in reply I said no but I partly am, a point she made on another occasion of accepting in my brain I am part female.

[ReineD]

I don't consider myself to be living as a man. I'm okay with my GF disagreeing with definitions, if she wants to. I'm okay with people not understanding me too. Just so I get a compatible GF.

In my post #33, I linked to one of your posts yesterday (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?239706-Attractive-or-quot-Meh-take-it-or-leave-it-quot&p=3939973&viewfull=1#post3939973) where you said that for eight months last year you didn't dress when you were with your girlfriend, and you didn't dress at all for two months after you broke up, and finding a new girlfriend now was more important than dressing. So if you have significant portions of your life of not crossdressing (as you instead appear in a manner that causes people to assume you are a man), then how do you live as a woman? Maybe you have your own definition of "living as a woman" too?

[Megan G]

I don't consider myself to be living as a man..

I'm sorry but if you are living your life and are wearing men's clothes, being called by your male name and are being addressed as he or him.... Your living as a man.



Male lesbian

Teresa, if that is the terminology that you and your therapist came up with to describe your gender identity I would really recommend finding another one and starting fresh..

I have read a lot of your posts and there still seems to be a lot of suffering on your part and come confusion of who you are. You have mentioned that you have an identity that is a mixture of male and female so to me that would make you Bigender (if that identity is static) or genderfluid (if it fluctuates).

To me your best identifier would be Bigender that is female attracted... Not lesbian

[Kate T]

The obsession with sex. Wow!!

Personally I think anyone who uses the terms "male lesbian" or "lipstick lesbian" has such a male sexual view of relationships that you make the terms almost meaningless. "Lipstick lesbian" is a derogatory term coined and typically used by mainstream male dominated media as a put down. I doubt you will find many female attracted women who genuinely and personally call themselves "lipstick lesbians". Most of the female attracted women and couples I know just refer to each other as partners and frankly DON'T talk about their "sexuality" at all. Because we are sick and tired of being defined by our sexuality and who we are attracted to. There is no special label for men who are attracted to women or women who are attracted to men, or at least certainly not one used in general social conversation. Stop trying to label stuff with meaningless labels.

[Teresa]

Megan,
I wasn't going to ignore your comment but had to find out more about bi-gender and genderfluid terms. I have to admit bi-gendered fits my situation so if it's preferable to male lesbian then maybe I should accept it. I have always had the continual feeling of feeling both since the start of my CDing, obviously the seeds were sown from berth . They don't fluctuate, at one time I described it as a constant gut feeling of wanting something else while functioning in male mode. Or I was firing on two male cylinders and the other two were somewhere else pulling in a different direction.
I don't mind being corrected, the fact is whatever the label it doesn't change how you feel inside !

Kate T,
Please try not to fly off the handle with all this, if a person male or female doesn't have these feelings inside they can never fully understand. The argument over labels just keeps cropping up, some don't need them, they just get on with their lives, I do need them because I need to understand it myself so I can explain it to others.
I will admit I'm not happy with the term "Lipstick lesbian ", I guess it's the opposite of a butch lesbian , but it's not fair to use those as they can be insulting comments.

[Megan G]

Teresa,

By no means am I trying to tell you who you are or are not, the only person in this world that can do that is you. The reason I wrote what I did was to get you to do some self reflection a little and see if there was a better way of descibing your identity that is easier for people (including yourself) to understand.... And hopefully to allow you to find peace a little easier...

Until you can fully understand who you are, and where you sit on the spectrum it is almost impossible to move forward and find true happiness. Having a therapist tell you that your a male lesbian makes me question the training and experience that this person has when it comes to gender issues, especially when they had to consult other members of the practice.

Again I only wish you the best in finding yourself....

[LelaK]

Am I on trial for perjury? What's the penalty if you find me guilty? Banishment?:battingeyelashes: This reminds me of my GF last year. She was always accusing me of lying, when I said I wasn't attracted to men or I couldn't remember my (fleeting, trivial) thoughts from the previous ten minutes or so.

It embarrasses me to identify as male, because it feels absurd for me, i.e. dishonest. But I don't need to dress up my vehicle/body to be aware of my feminine identity. I often have a strong desire to dress it up, so it looks better and makes me feel more authentic, but so far it doesn't seem to be a "need". My need is mainly for "female" or Lesbian companionship. Apparently, Teresa understands some of this.

[Krisi]

You are on trial for misusing the term "lesbian". You are, of course, free to call yourself anything you want to but when you misuse terms in a conversation, you mislead and confuse the other people.

For example, your "smartass" reply to my post about offending lesbians "I'm a real Lesbian, and I'm not insulted." You are, by definition, not a "real lesbian".

From reading some of your previous posts, you seem to be a sexually straight crossdresser. Just like the majority of crossdressers.

[sometimes_miss]

I am a lesbian stuck in crossdressing mans body
whenever I feel like that, I just remember what a lesbian friend once said: 'I'm jealous because you have access to all those beautiful straight girls who would never be interested in a girl like me'. While they might not be happy that I'm a crossdresser, for a while at least, I get to date some of those beautiful women. Might not last forever, but, most relationships fail anyway. Better to have loved and lost, then never to have loved at all. At least I have lots of fun memories.

[ReineD]

It embarrasses me to identify as male, because it feels absurd for me, i.e. dishonest. But I don't need to dress up my vehicle/body to be aware of my feminine identity. I often have a strong desire to dress it up, so it looks better and makes me feel more authentic, but so far it doesn't seem to be a "need". My need is mainly for "female" or Lesbian companionship. Apparently, Teresa understands some of this.

Lela, I do appreciate what you're saying and a lot of other people in this forum feel the same way you do. No one is questioning this.

But, here's the difficulty with wanting to be with lesbians. They're not going to want to be with you, because of your genitals. They'll look upon you as a man, no matter how much you tell them that you have a feminine identity. That's what lesbian means, female-on-female, not male-with-feminine-identity on female.

[Virginia1983]

For me, I'm going to complete dressing as a woman by having sex with men. I'm envious of women - their clothes, make up, nails, heels, ...But I want their husbands, :)

[Matia]

"Lesbian" can be an odd term here. The term is used to describe women (with female bodies) attracted to other women (with female bodies). So the term refers to one’s body more than one’s gender identity.
.

I have a male body and I am definitely a lesbian. I am attracted to women, while I perceive my gender a woman too. In reality it means, that sex when I am in a role of a man "hetero relationship" it just doesn't work , or it barely does. While when I live as a woman, and I am perceived as one, sex does work great. I don't think it's about the body at all.

[Virginia1983]

Understand - I'm completely uninterested in women, other than how they dress and act - and their husbands Most especially their husbands LOL.

[Teresa]

Reine,
I feel you've missed the point of what we're saying, Lela apparently feels the same, our male side is naturally attracted to women and our female side is also attracted, please believe me that's how it feels. I have never mentioned wanting to explicitly be with a lesbian, but if the possibility arose it obviously wouldn't be a problem.

Megan,
I didn't have a problem with my counselor and appreciated her honesty over checking with others, I feel we settled on the male lesbian term because of the way my sexual needs were tied up with how my CDing started and how she interpreted the dreams I had at that time and also how driven I was at the age of 8-9 years old. I do understand now who I am or at least accept myself now for what I am.

[Sara Jessica]

It embarrasses me to identify as male, because it feels absurd for me, i.e. dishonest. But I don't need to dress up my vehicle/body to be aware of my feminine identity. I often have a strong desire to dress it up, so it looks better and makes me feel more authentic, but so far it doesn't seem to be a "need". My need is mainly for "female" or Lesbian companionship. Apparently, Teresa understands some of this.

I too feel a significant degree of embarrassment and reluctance to refer to myself in an overtly masculine manner. But identification as a female does not make one a lesbian. To take on that distinctly descriptive term and throw it around as you are based on some sort of fantasy is simply absurd at best and frankly, it is highly disrespectful.

You are not a real lesbian. Take meaningful steps towards transition and perhaps others will buy into your erroneous self-perception (versus your self-perception being less erroneous).

[LelaK]

But identification as a female does not make one a lesbian. To take on that distinctly descriptive term and throw it around as you are based on some sort of fantasy is simply absurd at best and frankly, it is highly disrespectful. You are not a real lesbian. Take meaningful steps towards transition and perhaps others will buy into your erroneous self-perception (versus your self-perception being less erroneous).

It's absurd for anyone to identify with their vehicles, i.e. their bodies. We are consciousness, not physical matter. Do you identify with your blood, bones, brains, guts, bodily fluids, lymph, organs etc? You more likely identify with your perceptions, which are part of your consciousness, i.e. your images, feelings and sounds of your body. Physical body parts are ugly, except for the exterior form. As they say, beauty is skin-deep (If I had to identify with matter, I'd rather identify with a well-designed robot, than with body organs, guts etc).

Our consciousness is more real than the physical. The physical is only known through consciousness.

By the way, I'm only sharing these private thoughts here, not outside of this forum.

[Teresa]

Sara,
I feel your being a little harsh in your comments, whether your think it's an erroneous self-perception or not is immaterial to feelings we have inside. Maybe we are still denying we are TS , I feel if I were to go through with it I would feel exactly the same way, then I would be nearer to how my mind feels on this issue, the fact I chose to remain male doesn't alter those feelings.
Again if you don't experience them then you won't fully understand it but please don't decry other people if they have those feelings, maybe that is being disrespectful .

[ReineD]

I have a male body and I am definitely a lesbian. I am attracted to women, while I perceive my gender a woman too. In reality it means, that sex when I am in a role of a man "hetero relationship" it just doesn't work , or it barely does. While when I live as a woman, and I am perceived as one, sex does work great. I don't think it's about the body at all.

Yes, but if you tried to have a sexual relationship with a lesbian (not someone who is bisexual), would she be interested?

Admittedly it may be different in Bratislava, lesbians there might be more bisexual. But here, lesbians are not attracted to people who have penises, this is why they identify as lesbian. Hetero woman are interested in male bodies, of course, and bisexual women as well.


Reine,
I feel you've missed the point of what we're saying, Lela apparently feels the same, our male side is naturally attracted to women and our female side is also attracted, please believe me that's how it feels.

I believe you, but again, are lesbians attracted to you? No, because they don't see you as lesbian. The word "lesbian" means women who have sex with each other. These women's sexual orientation is such that people who have penises turn them off.

So if you and Lela feel that you are feminine (which is NOT necessarily being a woman BTW), the women who are interested in you at this point in time - while you still have your penises - are not lesbian. They are either hetero or they are bisexual.

Why is this so hard to understand. :p

The word "lesbian" does not just equate to "female gender identity", it equates to "female gender identity" plus "female body".

[becky77]

There's no such thing as a Male Lesbian.

To be a Lesbian you have to be female, if you're living as a man using male parts while totally ignoring the reality of your self it's called denial.
To believe you're some floating conscious free of physical limitations is bordering on Psychosis and I recommend visiting a Psychiatrist.

We each and everyone can claim to be whatever we feel inside and totally reject truth, that way lies madness.

Believe what ever makes you happy but don't expect the vast majority of people to treat you as anything other than delusional.

Teresa have you tried to get referral to the Gender Identity Clinic? I think it would really benefit you. 'You chose to remain male' first is the use of the word chose, most TS don't like that wording second is that you recognise remaining male yet continue to use the term Lesbian which is only a female related term. Look I don't want to dismiss your therapy and what you are doing but in this instance it's the wrong word to use. Lesbian isn't an identifying word it's a descriptive word.
People don't say 'He identifies as Heterosexual, he IS Heterosexual'

LelaK on this occasion for your sake I hope you're just a Troll. If not your current line of thinking will only make you miserable and lonely.


Great post ReineD :)

[Matia]

Yes, but if you tried to have a sexual relationship with a lesbian (not someone who is bisexual), would she be interested?


The thing is, just because - I am - lesbian, it doesn't automatically mean other lesbians must be or should be attracted to me. If I am a heterosexual male, it doesn't automatically mean, women will want to have sex with me. So while I may be a lesbian, my partner most likely needs to be Pansexual. Bisexual may also not be interested in trans lesbian the same way hetero or lesbian woman / man may not be.

but saying that being lesbian is about body parts, is a huge misunderstanding of gender in my oppinion.

[LelaK]

LelaK on this occasion for your sake I hope you're just a Troll. If not your current line of thinking will only make you miserable and lonely.
A troll wearing a pink dress? So people enjoy identifying with their "physical" substance, including the gross interior, rather than with conscious perception of body images, feelings and sounds (I need a confusion emoticon here, but there's no feminine one available apparently). I identify with beauty, not grossness. That makes me a troll?

[I Am Paula]

I used to work for a hard core LESBIAN band, in that they were born lesbians. I was their sound goddess, and a good friend. Being a fully transitioned trans woman would NOT let them ever think of me as a lesbian. I could wear the plaid, and have the attitude, but I was not a lesbian to them. Ever.

[becky77]

A troll wearing a pink dress? So people enjoy identifying with their "physical" substance, including the gross interior, rather than with conscious perception of body images, feelings and sounds (I need a confusion emoticon here, but there's no feminine one available apparently). I identify with beauty, not grossness. That makes me a troll?

I hope you are. Some of the stuff you say sounds like either two things
1, you are just having fun or 2, you need some help.

[Teresa]

Becky,
I accept Megan may have a point, I accept the term bi-gendered if it makes everyone happy, as I say whatever the chosen label , I know how I feel inside. I don't need to be spoon fed to know what lesbian means, with or without a penis I would still feel the same way.

Yes I did get gender counselling, I accept what I am now the problem is other people still don't accept me fully, if anything is going to drive me mad the acceptance issue is probably the one

[LelaK]

I hope you are [a troll]. Some of the stuff you say sounds like either two things
1, you are just having fun or 2, you need some help.

I didn't come to this forum not to have fun. But fun isn't the main thing I came for. I came to get acceptance, understanding and cameraderie etc. I did need that kind of help, but not the kind you seem to want to believe I need. I don't hear any good reasons to identify with gross physical matter (innards etc that decay over time), as many of you seem to prefer. I don't mean to annoy anyone.

[ReineD]

but saying that being lesbian is about body parts, is a huge misunderstanding of gender in my oppinion.

Then we'll simply have to agree that we will disagree. :)

So tell me, what is the difference between a lesbian and a bisexual woman?


I used to work for a hard core LESBIAN band, in that they were born lesbians. I was their sound goddess, and a good friend. Being a fully transitioned trans woman would NOT let them ever think of me as a lesbian. I could wear the plaid, and have the attitude, but I was not a lesbian to them. Ever.

That's how my lesbian friends feel as well, especially if a CD/TG has not transitioned. I'm sorry though that they think of you this way. I should think that if any TS has had SRS and is living full time, this would sort of take care of things.

[Amanda M]

Much ado about nothing. Labels again!

[Georgette_USA]

I have to agree with Reine and I Am Paula.

This is hard to get into the details, and keep this thread PG rated.

I never did the physical male/female thing because my identity was female.

Had a Butch Lesbian friend, mostly like a FtM CD, for 1-2 years prior to SRS. We never had sex as she only had sex with women.
After I had SRS we had an on/off relationship and physical sex as two Lesbians. Doing things that only two people with female parts can do. To me this was the ultimate acceptance as a woman.

My partner and I had physical sex as two women that we could not do prior to SRS.

Maybe some of the physical sex could be simulated if one partner still had male parts. But it would have to be purely NON penetrative sex with male to female parts. Would be more like a BI-Sexual then as Lesbian.
Some Lesbians do use toys and such on each other, so I guess one could say they are simulating male/female sex.

Not all are the same. Some Lesbians do not care for the TG/TS or even women that are BI. I would guess that a BI-Sexual female could have a somewhat Lesbian relationship with a TG/TS prior to SRS.

For the proponents of the male Lesbian idea, have any had such relations with female "GG" Lesbians. And not BI-Sexual females.

[Teresa]

Georgette,
As far as I know none of my partners have been of that persuasion but that isn't the point of what we're saying, we feel as we do inside and it's totally irrespective of who we've had relationships with, OK the chances of it ever happening are near to zero .

[ReineD]

As far as I know none of my partners have been of that persuasion but that isn't the point of what we're saying, we feel as we do inside and it's totally irrespective of who we've had relationships with, OK the chances of it ever happening are near to zero .

No one is disputing the way you feel inside. So maybe we're talking in circles because there are two ways to apply the term "lesbian".

1. To women who are in fact lesbian (and to other cis-people), the term applies to cis-women only. You will not find a lesbian who will agree to be in a relationship with someone who has man parts because it is not their orientation.

2. Some non-transitioned TGs believe that the term applies to them as well. They will be believed if they talk among themselves, but not elsewhere.

So why don't we all leave it at that. :)

[LilSissyStevie]

It's a mixed up muddled up shook up world! A Kafkaesque world where metaphors are taken literally and literalisms are taken metaphorically, where the subjective is indistinguishable from the objective, where "definitions" are ad hoc and arbitrary, where GGs and TSs police the identities of CDs!

No one seems to have noticed that the OP never claimed to be a "male lesbian" but claimed to be a lesbian [a type of woman] stuck in a crossdressing man's body. IOW, a woman stuck in a man's body - a typical description (literal or metaphorical, subjective or objective) of transsexuality.

As for "male lesbians" I don't use that term for myself but I have entertained the idea so I think I know what someone might mean when they use it. It's usually more productive to attempt to understand how others see themselves rather than try to impose my understanding on them. I'm not always consistent with that but it's the ideal I'd like to be able to live up to.