tolerance

[Krististeph]

okay: i have issues with the idea of 'tolerance' (i'll merely "accept" you as a tg- a subset of our society but do not dare claim equal status...)

(the definition is fine- but i think it is often adulterated)

so what would be better?

Acknowledgement? Allusion? Acceptance? Agreement? Alignment?

Please allow the alliteration... but seriously, what level of amortization are we anticipating with our anti-tg antagonists?

Are we to allow amatuerestic aggression?

Are we not allowed to avast antipathetic assertions?

If we can do this with 1/26th of the alphabet- let's get out our ideas!!! Get mad! TGs are everwhere!

We are at the point where many or most of us can get some form of protection. I say- let's use it. Open up aggressively. Stake claims, dare people to challenge you.

Well, maybe that is sill too forward. But if you do get discovered or challenged: never back down.

I am in a position where i need political approval- and i would like to hide my tg affinity. but if it comes out- and it just might- i will embrace it and drive forward. Because none of my 'competitors' have anywhere near the combination of military service, industry experience, and academic ability that a TG does.

I am almost ready to 'come out' just to secure this position-- but a strong part of me says this is not necessary- and not appropriate: TG or not: we should be selected for our ability, history, education and passion. And mostly we are.

Tolerance is bullshirt. TGs are two-spirited persons. Shamans. Even if the majority of us do not have shaman training... we are still conduits to a higher understanding.


HEY- maybe that is what is so scary to TG-phobics.

-kristin <serious>

[~Joanne~]

Here are the words I have a serious problems with: acceptance, Tolerance, but most importantly compromise Compromise has always been the biggest b***h of a word that we use here on this forum. I just don't understand the one sided compromise theory that a lot of sister's partake in. I never will and explaining it to me would be a waste of time. To compromise is to accept a small level of slavery and if that is what your marriage or relationship is about, more power to you. Mutual respect is more important to me and THAT I fully understand as i have had that respect 21 years now.

[Tonya Rose]

Comprimise, NEVER I demand respect in either Mode!!!

[Jenniferathome]

What's offensive about this?

Noun:
1.a fair, objective, and permissive attitude toward those whose opinions, beliefs, practices, racial orethnic origins, etc., differ from one's own;freedom from bigotry.

[pamela7]

we may be twin spirited but surely we are full-spectrum across society, including some very non-spiritual ways of being ;-)

there's the dictionary definition and then the "i'll accept this and stay quiet while disapproving" emotional energy; f that, right?

[Tracii G]

Compromise is not something I will ever do ever again because it ended up working against me in the end.
If I get found out I don't care I will admit it. If they can't deal with it I will move on without them as a friend.
If they can't see what I am just looking at me they need an optician LOL.
The one thing I will never be is an in your face activist demanding you accept me. I'm not an attention ***** wanting to stir shit up I just want to be left alone to live the way I want to.
My activism is me going out whenever I want to and being my true self.

[Diversity]

I see nothing wrong with compromising, as it takes into the consideration of one another's feelings and reaches an agreement which is satisfactory to both. There can still be tolerance, but tolerance and no compromises in relationships can lead to failure.
Compromise is, in essence tolerance, but tolerance does not necessarily equal compromise in relationships.
Di

[Tina_gm]

I am a big believer in compromising. Two people can come together in life and together will be worth more than the sum of each other combined.... Love is the key factor in that. But, unless we are cloned, there is a very very very big chance that at some point, the two people together are going to have some differences. Differences of taste, of interest, or opinion..... We can stand our ground, memememememe, alllll me, everything I want, whenever I want, however I want. OR, we could compromise, and give each an equal share of what they want, while still maintaining the equation of two souls together worth more than the sum of their parts.

[Kelly Whelan]

I made a few points on the other thread of the same name about this.

- I think the word 'tolerate' has a slight concession attached to it. People can say they tolerate something like they tolerate bad weather. They don't like it, they even wish it weren't there, but they feel they have to put up with it for some other higher goal. They have not come any closer to understanding it, but they have had their principles affirmed and possibly put on the public record for their own benefit. Changing your Facebook picture for example is one such example of a zero cost virtue signal. Tolerating something like TG/TV/CD for many is like clicking OK at the end of a software license agreement, they just scroll down past all the actual information and click the only button they would ever have clicked.

- People can say they are tolerant but not really be what the dictionary says it is. "I'm not racist, I just think there's too many of them." Anyone who says that might not be working with a different dictionary to the one I own.

- People can tolerate and accept something without liking it. I don't like watching two men having sex, but I'm all for it. I don't have to like it but if I am going to tolerate I should also accept it as equal to anything I do or experience.

- People can tolerate and accept something while seeming to ridicule it. Comedians who are very left leaning still make fun of a lot of alternative lifestyles and subcultures. People like this are just over the issue. They feel that we are 100% equal and can be made fun of just like anyone else. For some who are experiencing emotional pain from their lifestyle, this might not sit very well with them.

[Tracii G]

Why do people feel the need to over analyzing every little thing like the meaning of a word.
It means this but OMG it s could mean this if its twice removed and said in a past tense.
Doing things like this just cause people to go into a depression worrying about things.
Whats the point is all I'm asking.

[Kelly Whelan]

Intellectual discussion Tracii. Often at the end of one you find out more about someone's point of view, or whether your own views were based on assumptions rather than facts. Then again you might just end up right where you started. But I've never felt depressed by talking about words.

[Tracii G]

I'm all for an intellectual discussion and I wish there was more of it going on around here and less panty threads.LOL

[Teresa]

Having strong views on tolerance and compromise or whatever substitute you chose to use isn't the real World. Maybe it centers on the type of work you do or did in my case. I was a SE professional photographer for thirty years and those words were everyday considerations, if I wanted to stay in business. It doesn't mean I allowed myself to be walked over, if I dealt with so called fellow professionals and they gave me crap then they got it back, but only to safeguard my customers requirements, the same applied to home life and still does. If I wish to retain all the things I've built up then tolerance and consideration has to be part of my life. Applied to my CDing has been harder to live with and at times I don't receive as much back but then the acceptance problem is thrown into the equation.

Surely CDing gives us enough problems to discuss without a heated debate over the use or misuse of the English language !

[Michelle (Oz)]

Why do people feel the need to over analyzing every little thing like the meaning of a word.

Well said Tracii. Those who are genuinely tolerant of me would be highly offended and far less tolerant if I pursued an aggressive but intellectual argument with them. I'm happy to be tolerated - as indeed I am.

[Mykaa]

I'm all for an intellectual discussion and I wish there was more of it going on around here and less panty threads.LOL

I sure do like my underwear for sure! and Tracii I very much agree! I know Id like to see more than just superficial contact (im not referring to intimate either) than just by posting on the forum, if we cant trust each other then who can we trust? ( and to be specific when 1 wishes for friends a wish isnt necessarily fulfilled by typing on a forum page )

[JeanTG]

I see nothing wrong with compromising, as it takes into the consideration of one another's feelings and reaches an agreement which is satisfactory to both.

This. "It's not all about me" is a good way to approach any relationship, especially for a couple. We have to respect that our SOs have their own boundaries, turn-ons and turn-offs. We can't change how they're hard-wired any more than we can change how we are. With my wife it's: panties, even lacy ones, are OK 24/7, the rest is DADT even though she recognizes that dressing up reduces my anxiety and makes me feel better. She just doesn't want to participate. A bit moot these days as I'm kind of "in remission" (i.e. the "pink fog" has lifted).

[Alice Torn]

Human nature. We really cannot change it much, but grow a little, or a lot, through hardships, and pain. We all have things we dislike, or music we dislike, or behaviors, or clothes we dislike about society or others, or even in ourselves, but allow for others to do them, and allow ourselves to do things we really do not like sometimes. It is ok, to hate those things, but not condemn others or ourselves. It does hurt when others refuse to understand, and live and let live, though.

[Sandyhappygirl]

Confucius he say " Tracci talks much sense here on this thread as indeed on many other threads. I pay homage to your wise words Tracci".

[jenni_xx]

Tolerance is bullshirt.

-kristin <serious>

:doh:

No, it really is not.

[Krististeph]

Prove it: elucidate!

[Robin414]

Tolerance is bullshirt. TGs are two-spirited persons. Shamans. Even if the majority of us do not have shaman training... we are still conduits to a higher understanding.



Great point Kristin! I think Carl Jung once said to be truly masculine/feminine one must completely appreciate their femininity/masculinity... we do and I think we ARE elevated human beings for it.

That said though I like Tracii's perspective , unless I'm at a fallen soldiers funeral and a bunch crazy WBC protesters show up or you try to mess with me I'm actually pretty passive...like Ghandi in skinny jeans, lipstick, and rocking a MK purse 😉

Sure, 'I'll fight ya!' but I'd much rather 'explain it to ya!'

[jenni_xx]

Prove it: elucidate!


I know exactly what it is that you're attempting to put into words, even though you admit that you're struggling to put what you mean into words.

Ever waited in line for something, and the person in front is dabbling about, seemingly increasingly your own wait time. Ever thought to yourself that you would just wish the person in front would hurry up. That you've got better things to do than just wait in line behind them? Yet no matter how much they irk you, you've said nothing, and just waited patiently until it's your turn?

That's tolerance.

Intolerance would be lambasting that person in front for annoying you, irrespective of whether they meant to or not.

Tolerance is simply accepting that other people are different, whether you understand why or accept why they are different. Intolerance is the opposite of that. You know this.

I do get what you are saying, but by the same token, not every one sees everything eye to eye. We all disagree about something. We all have our views. And most recognise that the lives other lead is not necessarily the life we ourselves want to lead. But we don't impart our views/opinions on such people because we know that to do so would mean we are being intolerant of them.

I know of lots of people who don't understand cd's. Yet all of those people will say to me, and say to me genuinely, it is their life. They will also say that it's not their own life, so they don't understand. Yet they would never try to stop that other person from living the life that that other person wants to live.

Is that proof? No, it probably isn't. Is what I've just wrote an example of tolerance? Yes it probably is.

If tolerance is bull, which you say it is, then how do we define respect? It is easy to respect something or someone who shares the same view as yourself. But then that is probably just agreement. Tolerance isn't just agreement however. Tolerance is accepting that people are different from you, and accepting AND respecting their right to live a life that is different from you. Especially when you don't understand why.

[1958Candi]

I would be happy with indifference.

[Dana44]

Tolerance, Compromise, words. Compromise is not part of tolerance. One thing that I can point out is that tolerance for us is getting thin by the people across the country. So, perhaps we should all stand together even though all of us are a bit different and we all are different and some are similar. It seems that the other thread turned into a fire fight and for what? We are all in the same boat. From a masculine CD to a girly, gender fluid CD or TS we are all in the same boat with the same legal issues and what is happening in this crazy world of ours.
I understand that there is a great hurt by many on this forum. Perhaps we should have compassion and help each other. Things that should be easy to say never are.

[Stephanie47]

I'm in agreement with Tracii.

I've learned over my six plus decades on this planet that one word answers are really not answers at all. I've seen people argue and argue for hours about a term. Just ask the person to explain what he or she means by the term. Once you get the definition, whether it is in a dictionary or not is not material, then you can argue all you want. Or maybe you find out you're in accord with the person.

Just say what you mean and get it over with!

[Helen_Highwater]

When discussing things such as this it's impossible to find a single word that's familiar to all that will encompass the full spectrum of meaning.

I would be more than happy to live in a society that was fair, tolerant and accepting. I could have used welcoming but we've all been "welcomed" into someone's house when we've turned up unannounced when really they really wished we'd not called at that time and are happy to see the back of us. Whatever words you use it's possible to find some negative connotation.