Would you date a CD/TS?

[marlacd]

I've seen several threads posing the questions of being with a man for a date/ boyfriend/etc. Now, I'm going put out another scenario- Just suppose, you were out in drab, and a CD/TS attracted your attention. You get to know this lady, and you are in a position to be her date. or if it worked out, her boyfriend. Obviously we would want to continue being who we are, and she did accept that, because we're alike.

Would you like to be in that situation?

[StarrOfDelite]

Twenty years ago, before I realized that I am Transgendered, I dated several crossdressing transgenders. I think that being with them made me realize my own nature.

[Sometimes Steffi]

I was watching "I Am Cait". Candis Cayne is really beautiful. I'd date her.

[JenniferMBlack]

I have to answer with a yes and maybe. Sure I would be her date her boyfriend maybe. It isn't the cd/TS that would be the problem though. Although I enjoy being with a guy from time to time I so far have been unable to put up with them for an extended period of time. So if she is a he in personality I wouldn't expect it to last long.

[RacyRobin]

I am totally hetro, that said, if she was fun,
happy, and an out going lady I would go for it.

[Erin Lafleur]

I would absolutely date another CD or TS gal. It would of course, depend on the person but all things being equal I would certainly welcome it.
I would want to be en femme with her for the most part!

[Rachelakld]

I've see quite a few pretty CD/TS, also have coffee with one regularly (who is in my blog and I would like to have dated, had we both not been married)
So yes

[Diane Smith]

I really cannot get excited about any potential partner with male anatomy. I have not yet had the pleasure to meet a post-op TS I would be interested in dating, but wouldn't rule it out on principle if the opportunity and the chemistry were right. Otherwise, it's strictly GGs for me.

- Diane

[docrobbysherry]

I have met post op TS's I liked, but wouldn't go there because I wasn't attracted to them. If I was attracted, I would!

I have been attracted to a few fem dressers. They passed for females to me. But, because I don't know if there r male parts involved, I get turned off thinking about going there.

[Charlessa]

I would. maybe not date. but I'd love to have a relationship with the right one

[Kate Simmons]

With the right person, yes. :)

[CarlaWestin]

I was watching "I Am Cait". Candis Cayne is really beautiful. I'd date her.
Seriously! True that!

I've always had the fantasy desire to have a crossdressing friend to hang out with.
And having a CD and/or GG partner to play, ehem, damsel in distress would be fabulously thrilling.

[Princess Chantal]

Seeing my life partner who I have been with for the last 14 years is a crossdresser, my answer is obviously a yes.

[PaulaQ]

Questions for those in the thread about dating TSes:
1. What about trans women makes you feel they (post-op) are a poorer choice than a cisgender woman (GG)?
2. Oh right "that." Given your own gender issues, doesn't it feel hypocritical to question those who are most likely to understand you?
3. Do you see pre-op / post-op trans women as being an equivalent choice to dating another CD? (Elaborate)
4. How would you feel about a thread in the TS forum asking about "would you date a CD?", especially if many of the respondents replied "maybe, but only if closeted" and then stipulated a particular genital size?
5. Do you see trans women as being women or or as something like a woman, but not really a woman, a step down from "the real thing"?
6. A woman is being attacked and beaten by a man. Would you help her if she were actually pre-op trans? (For the sake of the question, assume you can tell because of the nature of the assault.)
7. What does the phrase "internalized transphobia" mean to you?
8. What does the term "objectification" mean to you, with regards to women, cis or trans?
9. Bonus question. You meet a beautiful woman who is an aerospace engineer who makes a salary about 4x yours. She discloses she is trans. What about yourself would attract this woman to you?

Thanks, really looking forward to your answers!!!!

[I Am Paula]

It's interesting how the OT puts Cd, and TS together. As much as I hate labels, and believe you should fall in love and/or have sex with whomever you click with, there is an ongoing debate in these pages about who is/what is gay.
A male having sex with a CD is, by traditional definitions, gay.
A male having sex with a TS is not.
That being said, have fun, be safe, and gender is just a state of mind- Enjoy.

[Alexa CD]

This is actually a little bit difficult to answer. If I were to be with a TS, be her boyfriend, which if given the chance to be with one I liked I would, I don't think I would want to dress up around her so much, I would probably stick with my more feminine style or even ease off it a bit. I would want her to really be the girlfriend while I took on being the boyfriend more.

With another CD is different. She would have to be my roughly my age or younger, and she couldn't be a full time crossdresser it would have to be more like a gay relationship. It would also need to be a more fluid, versatile relationship with neither of us taking on a more dominant boyfriend style role, it's either that or I would do the same as what I'd do if I was with a TS and that's to take on that boyfriend role instead of being girlfriends. For me I like being feminine for older masculine guys, that's when crossdressing becomes more of a thing for me.

[becky77]

It's a bit disappointing that on a Trans website so many see little difference between a CD and TS.
Is it internal transphobia or ignorance?
Either way it saddens me.

One is like dating a man one is like dating a woman regardless of clothes or genitals but I fear even here there are those that can't see beyond the physicality.

[Sissy_Michelle]

Maria,

I have thought of this happening a couple of times. But was afraid of what would happen if she found out I crossdress too? Would she not want to date or see me any longer? Some of us may only underdress because we don't pass fully dressed. Or the environment in which we work...

If a CD/TS was attracted to me enough that they would enjoy more of my company, I would have to be totally honest with them, and request the same. I think it would be a great experience for both of us. I am sure she would understand that she wouldn't be judged or ridiculed, so she wouldn't be stressed by that.

@--}----
Michelle

[Rhian]

I'd date a transgender woman if very fit but I wouldn't date crossdresser.

[NicoleScott]

.....As much as I hate labels....
A male having sex with a CD is, by traditional definitions, gay.
A male having sex with a TS is not.

If a TS has not had SRS and has sex with a male, that's gay sex. Your brain can tell you that you are a woman, you can call yourself a woman, and others can recognize you as a woman, but a male cannot become a female by declaration.

[samantha rogers]

As far as I'm concerned this is a question for academics.
I've dated cis males, cis females and TG as well.
I look at a persons eyes and listen to their laugh...if that stuff is right the rest just really doesn't matter. On the other hand if what is inside doesnt fit then the outside won't fix it.

[Lorileah]

I'd date a transgender woman if very fit but I wouldn't date crossdresser.:bonk:


So I can make the assumption your rules apply to GGs too? Otherwise I find this very insulting.

Truth for me is, I date anyone I feel attraction for. Sorta hypocritical to be in the TG world but exclude TGs...yes? Right now I don't like men (long stories) but that could change again.

Nicole, you and I disagree a lot...but I really do disagree with your statement above since I have friends who are married to Non-OP trans people. And you know what? I don't care what kind of sex they have.

Now, let's try and keep this civil. Get off the TS vs CD train

[samantha rogers]

Word Lorileah... word:)

[JessieA]

For dating if I enjoy their company I would date them but dating for me does not require sex. I have hang ups that would rule out actual sex but not snuggling and kissing some one with male bits down there. I'm only attracted to females so far but most CD's and all TS's I consider female if they are presenting as such. But that boundary might change for the right person though I think it unlikely.

[gregryder]

Simply put. Yes!

[sometimes_miss]

I have severe trust issues with men, so, probably not; there would always be this underlying feeling that the other person is somehow just biding their time until they can find some way to take advantage of me somehow. I know it's because of my bad past experiences in my relationships with males, but I haven't been able to just put that all behind me.

[LisaJ1]

I do as my female side,I am bisexual and do have a pre op TS girlfriend.Her name is Kimberly also my fiancée's lover too.My fiancée,she is bisexual as well

[Piora]

I would most definitely date a transgender female. However, the criteria of my attraction to her, such as her personality and other things that would also apply to a genetic girl, would be the focus of whether or not I would date her. So, to clarify, I would have to be attracted to her in all the ways that I would with a genetic female. Not sure, but I think she might have to be post-op as well, or planning it, although I think it would really depend on her and how much I liked her from the start. Being pre-op wouldn't STOP me trying to get to know her (likely that information wouldn't come up right away), but I'm a bit on the fence with the post-op or pre-op situation.

[sarab]

Oh in a heartbeat.

[PattyT]

The TS is too difficult for me to address. I have trouble relating to it. I would have no trouble at all having a TS as a good friend. I would probalby have no problems dating a female CD. It could be quite interesting.

[PaulaQ]

It's really depressing to login in here tonight and read transphobic rants from some of you.

I spent my morning in court with a trans woman who got her name / gender marker changed. I worked with another activist to plan how we can combat the horrible effects that current anti-trans propaganda is having on the community. There are a lot of murders and suicides. Some of the suicides have kids.

I spent the afternoon trying to find shelter for a trans woman who was trying to escape her rapist father. (The police in her state didn't care, he was ex LEO, she's trans.) Her first HRT doctor demanded she have sex with him in exchange for hormones. She found me because an activist in another city who I don't even know told her I was the real deal. That made me weep - I'm just a person trying to help. I'm in no way equipped to handle any of this stuff. Almost no one else does it though.

I spent part of the afternoon talking to a very nervous trans woman who was told she'd lose her job if she took time off for SRS.

At every turn we face discrimination that most of you can't imagine, and are too craven to face.

... and people wonder why trans women on this site sometimes display animosity towards CDs.

We're women. Our medical status is not what determines that fact.

We're the victims of men. How dare you call us men!

I may be ill equipped for what I take on. But me and many others fight - oftentimes for your rights too. I may be wholly inadequate to the task, but at least I'm not part of the problem, like some of you are.

There's a word for those of you who aid the transphobes who are quite literally killing us. And that word is "traitor."

Normally I'd find it in my heart to forgive you. I know you've been abused. I know many of you are as screwed up as a soup sandwich. I know this isn't your fault. But tonight, as I try to find a rape free place to stay for a terribly abused woman, and ponder how many people I know will be dead this time next year, forgiveness just isn't coming to me.

Good night to you.

[laura.lapinski]

If "attracted our attention" means I was attracted to her, then yes, I would.

[Anneliese]

It's a bit disappointing that on a Trans website so many see little difference between a CD and TS.
Is it internal transphobia or ignorance?
Either way it saddens me.

One is like dating a man one is like dating a woman regardless of clothes or genitals but I fear even here there are those that can't see beyond the physicality.

In my case, I'm not sure exactly what I am, and I'm sure I'm not alone. There are many here who are absolutely positively hetero who like to dress. I have only been with women, and am not attracted to men. However, I am very attracted to men dressed as women, whether CD (as long as they weren't constantly talking about how manly they are) or TS, and yes, I would date one. I would be dressed as well.

I am truly gender-fluid. Like women. Like CD/TS. I would like to experience the male organ before I die...on a womanly person.

I am absolutely not a manly man. Never have been, never want to be. Who would? I have always related to women, and often feel I am one.

[becky77]

Try answer this.
Do you see a Transitioned FtM Trans man (TS) as a man because that's who he is inside and how he presents, or as a woman because that's what he was born as?
Think hard on that question. Because flip that to MtF Trans woman (TS) and many of you still see that person as a man.



I have severe trust issues with men, so, probably not; there would always be this underlying feeling that the other person is somehow just biding their time until they can find some way to take advantage of me somehow. I know it's because of my bad past experiences in my relationships with males, but I haven't been able to just put that all behind me.

So TS are men to you?


If a TS has not had SRS and has sex with a male, that's gay sex. Your brain can tell you that you are a woman, you can call yourself a woman, and others can recognize you as a woman, but a male cannot become a female by declaration.

It's crazy that within the so called 'Trans community' I see greater Transphobia, Misogyny and sexism then I ever experience from Cis people.

It's incredibly hurtful. It reminds of the saying 'Wolf in Sheep's clothing', so many of you may dress up as the Sheep but you are still every bit the Wolf. Proclaiming to understand the feelings of a Sheep whilst eating Lamb stew and having no idea why that's hypocritical!

Anneliese you are woefully misinformed. What exactly do you think TS means?? It's NOT the next step for a CDer.

MtF CD = Man mentally who enjoys wearing women's clothes and expressing feminine traits. Some have identity or Dysphoria issues and I would then say they are in the 'Between' bracket which is yet to be truly recognised.

MtF TS = Woman mentally who was born male physically, typically they Transition (live full-time) at some point because they can no longer cope trying to live as a man.

Gender fluid = Someone who's internal gender identity shifts. Not who they are sexually attracted to that's called Bisexual.

A CD and TS are almost nothing alike unless you're ignorant enough to only see what someone looks like rather then get to know them as a person.
What you write is horribly objectifying.

[Natasha_Lovegood]

I'm bisexual, but I think I wouldn't like to date a crossdresser, maybe a trans yeah

[JeanetteX]

If she would have the right personality as well, then yeah I'd most definitely date a CD/TS. Perhaps not for sex right away, but I'd love a great night out on the town and a good chat about all the gender issues. And who knows what might happen later!!

[Sandyhappygirl]

Becky. I suspect you read into things what the original writer may not have intended and jump to conclusions. For example your response to 'sometimes miss' of "so TS are men to you" assumes that her reply was referring to mtof transsexuals whereas I think her reply was likely referring to crossdressing men. The original question was NOT would you date a transsexual was it?
Furthermore, your quoted portion of NicoleScott's reply was not transphobic or sexist as you suggest. She was clearly stating a viable opinion relating to biology. It is not unreasonable to suggest that two males (neither with any GRS surgery) having sex is simply that regardless of whether one or more declares himself to identify as female. She in no way suggests there is anything wrong with two males having sex whatever their internal gender identity. It is as if you want to be 'horribly offended' so much that you make it up as you go along and see offense where non is meant.

[becky77]

Sandyhappygirl
The question is:
Would you date a Crossdresser (CD) /(or)Transsexual (TS)

So YES the question was also Transsexual?? I'm not sure how you didn't understand that part.
However the answer from Sometimes Miss isn't clear if she is answering to one or both, hence why I asked the question. I wouldn't put a question mark if I was assuming.

Nicole on the otherhand when talking about Transsexuals says "Your brain can tell you that you are a woman, you can call yourself a woman, and others can recognize you as a woman, but a male cannot become a female by declaration".
How is that not Transphobic?
Do you see MtF Transsexuals as women? Clearly not as you also state it is two males and you dismiss the identity as if it is meaningless. Therefore you see Transsexual women as men which also makes you Transphobic. Unless of course you are also ignorant of what being TS means??
You do know that TS means Transsexual right?

I don't look to be offended and I'm not offended now I expect this stuff it's the norm, but I dared hope there would be understanding and acceptance within the Trans community.

[Zooey]

Furthermore, your quoted portion of NicoleScott's reply was not transphobic or sexist as you suggest. She was clearly stating a viable opinion relating to biology. It is not unreasonable to suggest that two males (neither with any GRS surgery) having sex is simply that regardless of whether one or more declares himself to identify as female. She in no way suggests there is anything wrong with two males having sex whatever their internal gender identity. It is as if you want to be 'horribly offended' so much that you make it up as you go along and see offense where non is meant.

Wow. You are so wrong. You, NicoleScott, and a bunch of others.

First of all, we are women. Paula responded to this point much better than I could.

Beyond that, even just biologically/physiologically, I can tell you that many pre-op/non-op TS women who are on continuous HRT actually have a lot more in common functionally with females than males. Screw "declaration" - it's a question of biology. Sexual response, erogenous zones, orgasm... All shifted towards female patterns over time. With respect to genitalia, the change can be dramatic. I presently lack a vagina, but i do not have a functional penis either. While sex with me is not quite the same as sex with most natal females, it is most assuredly not like sex with a man.

[arbon]

I would potentially date a man who was CD if I was attracted to them - ie, a good guy, secure about who they are, caring, responsible, respectful, thoughtful, attractive, strong but gentle, thought of me the way I think of chocolate.....

If they seemed unsure about there gender identity or it was a out of control sexual fetish thing though I would run like hell.

I would also be open to relationships with transitioned women. I have found I can connect on a deeper level with them then I can with anyone else.

[Tina_gm]

Wow, this thread is making my head hurt. I personally am attracted to all things feminine. Nothing about a male or masculinity attracts me. Not on any level. I do have many friends who are cis gender male, but platonic is platonic. I have a hard time answering any dating question because I am married and do not think of dating. I really am hoping those days are behind me now. That is definitely my plan. I have spent many years being single. If things do not work out with my wife and I, I may just choose to be done period. And no, I didn't say that after my 1st marriage lol. But there was a time when I thought I was done having relationships. So I guess you can never say never.......... As for the whole CD/TG/TS. Does anyone see why those who are transitioning or have transitioned or just has non questionable identity as a woman is not happy with this thread? Just like the tolerance thread, it shows a serious marginalizing here-

Would I date someone other than a cis gender female..... Yes, if they had the special something that makes them a woman. I am not talking about the anatomy. The anatomy, if they had what I had, I wouldn't want to be doing anything sexually with theirs, but I think when it comes to transwomen, generally they do not want to either??? So I think that can be worked around. Very likely no to a CD who has male gender identitiy, and wants to be sexually active as a male. I am wired to be attracted to women. When I see someone I am attracted to, I am not seeing their anatomy underneath their clothing.

[PretzelGirl]

One of the problems of this discussion is that gender identity and sexual orientation are separate and the question tries to make a correlation (maybe not deliberately, but it does). And then the discussion devolves into who has what part. This is where it becomes Transphobic as it is trying to categorize us by body parts instead of accepting and knowing us for who we are. Parts do not define gender identity, our brain and sense of self do. A woman can have a penis and there is nothing wrong with that. A man can have a vagina and that is okay. Or either can be Intersex. There are many Intersex conditions where you could get naked with them and never know. Being careful with categorizing people and opening your mind to hearing who they say they are is the appropriate way to approach understanding.

Some of the types of sexuality for those interested:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/skoliosexual-zucchini-and-10-other-sexual-identity-terms-you-probably-dont-know_us_561bf841e4b0082030a35f80

[Tina_gm]

Sue you are correct in a sense, But the phrase having a relationship is in itself not directed entirely to intimacy, although it is I am sure deemed to be such. Romantically??? In which case do we need to have actual sexual acts of whatever type to be romantic?? Think of an older couple, at a restaurant. Maybe their "time" has come to where they are not really able to be physically sexual. Can they still be romantic with each other? I would say yes to that.

[Sandyhappygirl]

Becky.
No you didn't ask Sometimes Miss a question, you put a question mark after a statement, it is not the same.
You ask: How is that not Transphobic? I believe Nicole is not transphobic and you have to remember that words written and the same words read can mean different things to the writer and the reader. Why would a transphobic person be on this forum?
You ask: Do you see MtF Transsexuals as women? Yes I do but then after asking the question you then answer it for me in an incorrect manner that is offensive to me. You do not know me so do not tell me what I am. I would not presume to do that to you.
You ask: You do know that TS means Transsexual right? Really?

Zooey. Wrong I maybe but I really think that before stating that Nicole is transphobic, a personal insult to her, Becky should have tried polite discussion first.

[Anneliese]

Try answer this.
Do you see a Transitioned FtM Trans man (TS) as a man because that's who he is inside and how he presents, or as a woman because that's what he was born as?
Think hard on that question. Because flip that to MtF Trans woman (TS) and many of you still see that person as a man.






You may very well know more than I do about this subject, but it seems many here, including yourself, feel there are strict lines to be drawn in the whole gender/CD/TS discussion. I do not believe it is that simple. Nothing is that simple. I am not that simple. You probably aren't either.

I truly have good thoughts and compassion for all groups represented here. The only group I find a little weird...but it's just me...are the CDers who express their extreme heterosexuality at every opportunity. Is there really such a thing as an ultra-masculine CDer?

I think not.

JMHO.

[renae.lake]

first, to the op, sure i would, if i were single and the chemistry was right.

second ...


It's interesting how the OT puts Cd, and TS together. As much as I hate labels, and believe you should fall in love and/or have sex with whomever you click with, there is an ongoing debate in these pages about who is/what is gay.
A male having sex with a CD is, by traditional definitions, gay.
A male having sex with a TS is not.


It's a bit disappointing that on a Trans website so many see little difference between a CD and TS.
...
One is like dating a man one is like dating a woman regardless of clothes or genitals but I fear even here there are those that can't see beyond the physicality.


If a TS has not had SRS and has sex with a male, that's gay sex. Your brain can tell you that you are a woman, you can call yourself a woman, and others can recognize you as a woman, but a male cannot become a female by declaration.


MtF CD = Man mentally who enjoys wearing women's clothes and expressing feminine traits. Some have identity or Dysphoria issues and I would then say they are in the 'Between' bracket which is yet to be truly recognised.

MtF TS = Woman mentally who was born male physically, typically they Transition (live full-time) at some point because they can no longer cope trying to live as a man.

Gender fluid = Someone who's internal gender identity shifts. Not who they are sexually attracted to that's called Bisexual.

A CD and TS are almost nothing alike unless you're ignorant enough to only see what someone looks like rather then get to know them as a person.

umm, i'm not sure it's all that clear cut. there may be some cd's who are 100% hetero and in no way ever identify with the female gender, but i'm going to go out on a limb to say that many of us are somewhere in the middle of the gender spectrum. we are not just wearing the clothes for their own sake, nor are we women trapped in a man's body. i would not pretend to understand the struggles a ts person has to face, but i do not think we are so completely different in terms of the outside not matching the inside. if the feminine in me falls in love with the feminine in someone else, and we both happen to have male anatomy, which matters more, what is in our hearts and minds, or what is between our legs? call it what you want, i suppose, but to me it is something very different from a relationship between two gay males.


~ summer

[Ceera]

It would depend on the person, I suppose. I'm bi, but generally prefer women - mostly because I repressed my bi side for most of my life and tried to remain straight. I married a GG who was of average appearance and, frankly, rather overweight in her later years. But we stayed together and I was faithful to her for 30 years, until she died of heart failure. At the start of 2014 I was widowed, and I opened up to my feminine side. So I've only in the last two years or so accepted and been open about my feminine side, cross dressing, or bisexuality. Now, pretty much anyone is a possibility, but it's still a bit more difficult for me to start things up on an intimate or affectionate level with a male or male-appearing person. There is a lot of self-imposed repression to overcome.

I recently moved from Texas to Oregon, so for the two years since I was widowed and before the move here, I wasn't trying to start a new relationship with anyone, of any orientation, gender identity or dressing mode. In the 5 months since I moved, I have been taking it slow.

I have dated a FtM cross dresser, since I arrived in Oregon. Only one date, so far, but I hope we shall have more once her academic schedule eases up. We met socially and found we had a lot in common before I asked her on a date. We made a nice couple when I took her out to dinner. Her in a dapper men's dress shirt, slacks, vest, tie and gentleman's cap, with her hair cropped to male length, and me in full femme attire, breast forms, wig and makeup, doing my best to present as female. It's certainly nice to do things with her, and she encourages me to expand my feminine activities.

Born a genetic girl, she prefers to go out and about publicly in a male mode of dress and a male presentation. She largely still self-identifies as female. She doesn't particularly care which pronouns you use on her, or if you address her by her female given name. She doesn't usually try for a 'male' voice, unless presenting male in a historical reenactment group that we both belong to - where she does try to get everyone to use male pronouns for her, and to use her chosen male name in that group. I haven't gotten to know her well enough yet to be certain of she is 'only a crossdresser' or if she considers herself to be somewhere on the transgender spectrum, with transition a future possibility. For her, it probably wouldn't matter to me how she identifies, or if she eventually transitions to male completely. I like her as a person, and I find her attractive. What bits she has now in her panties, or intends to have in the future, don't matter all that much.

As far as other crossdressers or transgender people go, of either birth gender, I've found a few that I thought were attractive, and that I thought I might like enough as people to strike up a friendship with, and maybe date. About the same percentage as I have found among genetic girls or guys who don't cross dress and who are not transgender. Most cross dressers or transgender individuals don't fire up that spark of attraction for me. But the same can be said for anyone else, of any gender, orientation or dressing mode.

I'll confess to being shallow enough that appearance certainly plays a factor in who I find attractive. But it is far from the only factor. Before I left Texas, I 'said yes' to one guy that was only average in appearance and decidedly overweight. But he was a charming gentleman, accepting of my dressing, and nice to socialize with. What kind of person he was became more important than his looks. I wouldn't go so far as to call that evening a date, and it didn't repeat, but we had a nice night. The same would hold true for any CD or TG people that I might possibly date. If they become friends first, and I like being with them socially, their odds are greater than someone who is merely physically attractive.

[Anneliese]

Agree 100%.

[ChryssiePie]

Well, yes. It is far more likely I'd find myself attracted to a femboy/crossdresser than just any male, simply because I love clothing that accentuates feminine features and feminity in expression as well.

but again, common interests usually trump gender and how one presents themselves.~

[Rhian]

:bonk:


So I can make the assumption your rules apply to GGs too? Otherwise I find this very insulting.



The same standards apply to GGs. I'm quite picky.

[Krististeph]

No. I'm kind of past 'dating' though.

I like girls.

But for fun or hanging out, as a friend, yeah.

Dating implies sex or intimacy. Sorry, i do like girls.

[Sharon B.]

If we connected yes I would.

[Lorileah]

The same standards apply to GGs. I'm quite picky. Then I see no reason you had to say it. It would be implied you were attracted, yes? Sometimes what you say can be a window into your soul.

[marlacd]

This went farther than I expected. The only reason I used the term cd/ts, was to open this thread up to all who wanted to express an opinion. I saw lots of passionate responses from many intelligent people. If you'd like to align yourself to a specific term, please do so. I just wanted to come up with a new topic, that would encourage discussion. Obviously, I did.

[Rhian]

Then I see no reason you had to say it. It would be implied you were attracted, yes? Sometimes what you say can be a window into your soul.

It was to distinguish myself from the type of man who in interested in a TS purely because they are a TS.

[Charlessa]

I answered this earlier but will now go into more detail. I'm bi. I love women and am not attracted to guys at all. but I like the sex. so as far as trans/cd dating. yes absolutely. I'm highly attracted to CDs with the right looks. tgs in my area are quite rare. now as far as dating I suppose not. I'm not trying to let the whole world know of my bi ways. but a relationship. most definitely. I've been seeking this kind of relationship awhile now. someone to hang out with and dress with. discuss our mutual loves. the sex part could be cool too but optional

[Zooey]

Because, again, it's totally gay for a man to date a trans woman. You know, because we're men. Obviously.

It's nice to know you'll have sex with us though, as long as you don't ever have to acknowledge our existence in front of anybody else.

261449

[wanda66]

I wouldn't date a label i prefer afeeling person ,who respects me for whoi am.

[Marcelle]

If a TS has not had SRS and has sex with a male, that's gay sex. Your brain can tell you that you are a woman, you can call yourself a woman, and others can recognize you as a woman, but a male cannot become a female by declaration.

Ouch . . . I guess this describes me . . . a delusional sort who thinks I can call myself and woman and "poof" I become one. Oh . . . wait a minute I did not become a woman, I was always one. Yes nature in it's cruel way decided to give me male physiology and a brained wired female and that is my cross to bear. But your contention that I can't call myself a woman until I have SRS is not sound and to be honest the same garbage I get from transphobic people (male and female).

You might not think I am women because I have male physiology and you can argue that for eternity but I am a woman and you will never convince me otherwise anymore than I can convince you that you are anything then you say you are.

Marcelle

[Piora]

The thread seems to have deteriorated from a discussion about whether or not any of us would date a crossdresser or a transsexual, and turned into a heated debate about the definition of a woman. We should really get it back to where it was without all the harshness and bad feeling. Not that some of it isn't likely justified.

My input was that I would date a transsexual, but only if she met the criteria that attracts me to ANY woman. "Dating" does not necessarily equate "sex". I want to meet someone sweet, intelligent, kind, understanding, honest, humourous, and attractive. To ME. I really don't care whether or not she's trans. As far as any concern about genitalia, well....that doesn't define whether or not she's a woman. She is who she is in her heart and soul. I would only worry about the SRS if and when the subject came up. Or if the relationship became a serious one. But, I'm not going to miss an opportunity to be with someone wonderful, just because of it. This is a lonely enough world for so many of us, to really be bothered about that.

[Dana44]

I have dated trans and found them to be the most feminine and always thought of them as women. Although a relationship is called gay. It was still between a man a very feminine woman, just different plumbing. On real GG's I have never seen one as feminine as the couple trans that I had. It was impressive to find that feminine person and experience it. Although I am a crossdresser I am not that feminine but as feminine as many women that I know. They were ultra feminine and it showed. Very respectable.

[flatlander_48]

No, I doubt if my wife would approve...

DeeAnn

[Anneliese]

There seem to be some here who think this whole CD/TS thing is black and white.

i.e, You're either CD (MAN) or a TS/TG (WOMAN).

I just can't believe there's anyone who thinks everyone is so easily defined. Perhaps some are. They know who and what they are, and it is very clear-cut.

As one who has often been told I can be black and white on certain issues...which I disagree with, by the way...I am certainly not when it comes to gender identification.

I would not date a CD who considered themselves a manly man full-on hetero type, and they wouldn't likely be interested in me. However, a gender-fluid CD who was perhaps effeminate but had no intention of transitioning, I would.

I would date a TS/TG, whether transitioned or not, while I carried on in my melange of gender identities.

I'm sure I'm not alone in not being 100% certain what I am or who I'd be interested in. Women turn me on, but in my case, women covers: CD/TS/TG/GG, and yet my last girlfriend and activity was over ten years ago. (She was a bisexual goth, by the way. Both my last two girlfriends were bi. The other is now living with a FtM gentleman)

I am often reminded of the movie "The Crying Game". I fell in love with Dil thinking she was a woman. When she revealed herself, I was surprised, but would not have acted the way the lead character did. I would have continued making love to her, without question, and would have absolutely wanted to continue seeing her. I told my last two girlfriends upfront about those feelings.

[Mayo]

Yes, I would.

[CONSUELO]

If there is mutual interest and enjoyment of one another's company; why not?

[flatlander_48]

If a TS has not had SRS and has sex with a male, that's gay sex. Your brain can tell you that you are a woman, you can call yourself a woman, and others can recognize you as a woman, but a male cannot become a female by declaration.

Sorry, that doesn't make sense. For one, I think you're mixing sex and gender. The other is that having a diagnosis that one's degree of dysphoria is of sufficient magnitude to warrant transition does not mean any sort of affirmation surgery is automatic. There are many people who are not candidates for affirmation surgery due to high risk medical issues, financial resources, life situations, etc. If they were to have affirmation surgery, I assume that it would likely remove the dysphoria that they have but I doubt if they would be "more female" as a result. Psychologically, I think that they are already there, independent of having surgery or not.

DeeAnn

[jenni_xx]

Paula, your comment about your partner regarding your penis as a "big clit" intrigued me. So, your partner has to pretend that your genitalia is something that it is not? I have to ask, why is it that your partner has to pretend that your very real penis on your very real body, encasing a very real woman, is something that it actually is not? Why would your partner need to pretend at all? If he did in fact regard you as the woman that you so clearly state that you are? That penis would simply be a penis on a woman, not a clit (which it isn't), and he would embrace it just as he clearly embraces every other part of you, mental, physical, emotional, etc.

[Suzanne F]

I had not read this post yet, only heard about it. No wonder many TS women are upset. I just had SRS so I guess I am now a real woman. No! I have been living as a woman for a year. I have been a woman all along. If you need a TS to have had SRS to be attracted that is your right. But to say that she isn't a woman until she has a vagina destroys the exact gender identity freedom we are hoping to create here. Love on who you want with whatever equipment you want. Just leave the self labeling to each person as a human being.

[Zooey]

Paula, your comment about your partner regarding your penis as a "big clit" intrigued me. So, your partner has to pretend that your genitalia is something that it is not? I have to ask, why is it that your partner has to pretend that your very real penis on your very real body, encasing a very real woman, is something that it actually is not?

I discussed this a bit already, earlier in this thread. Given enough time on HRT, for many women (though not all) it becomes functionally very similar to "a large clittoris". I understand what you're saying, but there is a very real biological basis for that comparison. Masturbation for me pretty much requires a vibrator at this point, because I literally couldn't effectively do it "the male way" even if I wanted to (I don't).

[flatlander_48]

It's also just a slang term...

DeeAnn

[PaulaQ]

So, your partner has to pretend that your genitalia is something that it is not?

Not anymore, but he needed to do it for me, for one thing. I had a great deal of gender dysphoria about my genitals. Treating them as best he could as female anatomy helped me be a lot more comfortable. The only reason I mention that is that he was attracted to me and has always seen me as a woman. But my anatomy was really different than that of any woman he'd ever been with. So he just treated me like he would any other woman, and things worked out just fine.

A lot of trans people need to be approached that way, a lot don't.

My only point was that even arrow straight people can work around anatomy if other more fundamental things are right.

[Georgette_USA]

Just a quick answer for now.

Not sure if I dated at all, in a strict idea. Prior to SRS never dated, but did have some one on one with one CD and a BI-Gay guy. I also went with another Pre TS all the time, some sexual mostly not, we basically became partners. We went many places together some in male mode but most not, some LGBT clubs, some not LGBT clubs. Not sure if that would be called dating. It was not exclusive as we were still experimenting.

After SRS I went with a Butch Lesbian on/off, guess it could have been dating. Also did non LGBT clubs, mainly men but never dating. I got tired of all that after ten years and my partner and I just stayed together as two women.

Now I would not have a problem dating anyone. CDs, Pre or Post TS MtF or FtM, or men.

[Adriana Moretti]

I have dated CD's before....its fun.....

[Mayo]

Treating them as best he could as female anatomy helped me be a lot more comfortable. [...] A lot of trans people need to be approached that way, a lot don't.
This is important to understand. A significant fraction of trans people do not care to be reminded that their genitals aren't what they should be, so to call them by the biologically correct terms would be hurtful to the individual. For other trans folk it's less of an issue.

[Tabitha_Sinn]

I would! But if we lived together, I must insist on *two* bathrooms! I couldn't have her hogging all the bathroom time!

[marlacd]

This thread took some pretty interesting twists and turns. For some, just another person who would accept them for who they are, is enough. Others want gender specific, and want to be recognised for whom they choose to be.

As for myself, since I didn't answer my own question, would be someone who dresses, and I'd feel comfortable escorting to where ever we choose, with me being in drab mode. And that we'd switch positions, so that I could dress and be escorted in the same manner.

What made me think of this thread, was an article I found online about a past event, a crossdressers prom. I had an idea, about me going, renting a tux, and just being there to dance with as many of the girls that would want to. Just make myself available to them. I had no ulterior motives other than just a dance partner.

What I'd get out of it would be just a different life experience.

[flatlander_48]

What I'd get out of it would be just a different life experience.

m:

That's a good point. Crossdressers and mid-spectrum Transgender people get to have this additional set of experiences due to a shift in gender perspective. It can show you how the world works from an entirely different viewpoint. It's possible to get a sense of how things look to our mothers, wives, sisters and daughters.

DeeAnn

[Tabitha_Sinn]

As for myself, since I didn't answer my own question, would be someone who dresses, and I'd feel comfortable escorting to where ever we choose, with me being in drab mode. And that we'd switch positions, so that I could dress and be escorted in the same manner.



I think that's great Marla! I own six suits and would be very happy to take another CD/TS out as a man! As I know she would appreciate it! But hey! I wanna chance to be taken out as a girl too!

I think that's the perfect relationship right there!