What gives CD a bad name.

[Jaylyn]

Was visiting with a GG in our town. She was telling me that she had just gotten back from three days in Vegas. She said it was great till her and a couple of friends were walking down the strip and she saw a guy wearing a dress. She said that didn't bother her as bad as she thought it would, but she was set a back when this guys dress which was very short in the first place either blew up or slipped up high enough for his private male parts to hang out and he just got a kick out of the GGs staring at him and his parts. This lady was telling me they finally regained their composure and walked on by to a show. After the show the same guy she said was outside on the street wearing an even shorter skirt and he left nothing for the imagination. She continued telling me that her and the women she was with just couldn't believe what he was doing. She then said these men that want to be a woman need to be arrested and thrown in jail. I kept my mouth shut as I had no comeback for this type of behavior that she and her friends witnessed.
I am telling every one this as I am wondering how you feel about our presentation? CD's are trying to be accepted as good folks that are reaching out to their other gender side and men like this are hurting our cause. If your out on a side walk for goodness sakes leave our fantasy attire in the bedroom and try to be dressed presentable. I know that in Texas if a guy shows his private parts on a sidewalk he would be arrested and thrown in jail. Anyone feel differently?

[ClosetED]

I would consider that person as a genderF**K. Most here who label themselves, when forced to use a label, "just a CD", would not want their male parts exposed when out in public. Most want to blend in public, or for those who want to be discordant, still would be tasteful.
Or maybe he is a male prostitute showing his wares for those who want things a bit different.
I think it gives the rest of us here a bad rap.
Hugs, Ellen

[Kate Simmons]

I feel you should be presentable regardless of what mode you employ. Some bit of modesty goes with that. The problem is we can't control other people and unless they are found breaking the law, can do little about their behavior. Don't give them an audience as that is what they want.

[Alexa CD]

Honestly I'm surprised they didn't report him to the police.

Presentation is exactly the thing that gives crossdressers a bad name, despite what some people feel. I've said it on another thread that disappeared, appearance and being accepted come hand in hand, it's the only way to be taken seriously, like it or not. The community (Including the trans community) image and reputation takes alot of collective damage due to reckless people who do not care about what people think.

[flatlander_48]

A little over a week ago, I attended a Meet & Greet for one of our local Transgender groups. With Tribe and allies, there were maybe 25-30 people in attendance. This was a Sunday late afternoon event in the office space of one of the allies. Folks were dressed mostly how you might expect; low key and casual. One person, who had just relocated to this area, was in hot pants, tank top, 5" platform heels and jewelry sort of flying everywhere. Personally I don't really care, but you would have to think that the outfit was more suited to nightlife than Sunday afternoon daylight. I was able to talk to her briefly. She seemed nice and I would have liked to continue the conversation, but her ride came.

I guess the moral to the story is that people probably should be aware of the kind of attention that they might attract.

DeeAnn

[StarrOfDelite]

1. It sounds to me that the individual who exposed himself was probably exactly the type of "crossdresser" whom the Haters have in mind when they obsess about male perverts dressing en femme to gain access to ladies' restrooms.
2. This person was only technically a crossdresser, in the sense that anyone who wear clothes of the opposite gender is a crossdresser. I don't want to get into a long discussion of exhibitionism, which is obviously a recognized psychological disorder, but this is typically done only by males who identify as males. It's been theorized that these individuals perceive themselves as being inadequate as males, and display their genitals as if to tell the world, "I am a Man!"
3, I think that it's unfortunate that your friend jumped to the conclusion that this person's desire was to be a woman, as this undoubtedly was not the case. He probably chose to dress in drag as a way to attract attention. You probably did the right thing by not trying to correct her, since I rather expect that she had that attitude about CD's and TS's before this incident, and it only reinforced her prejudices.
4. Your friend did the world a disservice by not calling the police. Exhibitionist sexual behavior is a crime in all fifty states, and usually the only way that a person who is an exhibitionist gets the proper medical treatment is if the police and judicial authorities get involved. Exhibitionists usually don't stop exposing themselves without the intervention of some external agency, either the state or family/peer pressure .
5. Whatever happened to the rule that, "What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas?" :D

[docrobbysherry]

Don't throw the baby out with the bath water. And, don't assume everyone is like the one person they just met.

I've met and seen literally 1000's of dressers. And, other than a few bulges, none of them had their genitals visibly hanging out. If that was indeed a CD, she was also into exposing herself. For her own pleasure or, in Vegas, profit.

It sounds like u think u can't discus this with that woman without outing yourself, Jaylyn. If u haven't met many other CD's, maybe u can't. However, u mite mention reading/hearing a lot about CD's from Caitlyn.

Or, u can just let it go. There's no way to clear those disgusting images from her mind!:doh:

[Ressie]

Exposing one's self and crossdressing are two different things (that in this case went together). What about the woman that recently breast fed at a wedding reception? Is she giving mothers a bad name?

[Adriana Moretti]

Honestly I'm surprised they didn't report him to the police.

Presentation is exactly the thing that gives crossdressers a bad name,.

I totally agree....and I see it myself every once in a while. it is a very amature move, and one we all have made at some point ( i was guilty of rocking 6 inch hooker heels in public too once ) .....but now it gets under my skin...and you gals hit the nail on the head, dress accordingly to the situation . Gals sometimes feel though they need to explode with pink fairy dust by wearing ALL the most girly things ALL at once and tend to look like hot messes who should be working the street corner, it is embarassing .
One time I was headed to a club in Philly, and we were meeting a few gals there, we met them in a parking garage a few blocks from the place. One of the gals looked like a total hooker..well..ok 2 of them...one was WAY over dressed ( peacocking) in a total sequin outfit that was more suited for a mardi gras parade, and the other looked like a street walker who had on too short of a dress , a garter and thigh high stockings. We had to walk a few blocks through the busy sat night streets of the bar area of philly to get to our destination. I knew this was going to be interesting, so I kind of drifted far, far in the rear to stay clear and also act as the ( backup) in case there was a problem as we began to walk ..they created alot of negative attention for themselves, and i witnessed it from the rear, everyone was so busy looking at them that nobody even noticed me. It was just embarrasing though..

I could go on for days on the style ( or lack of ) that i have seen. Like Easter Bonnets and Spring Dresses at casual places, to gals who look like they are dressing like the woman they idolized in 1984, and its 2016, There is a time and a place for everything though and that outfit the gal wore in vegas sounds like it should have been left in the closet, and only to be worn ( in the closet)....

[natalie_cheryl]

I feel like if you're going out in public you should try to be as presentable as possible however is there a possibility that this personal was doing something forced maybe as part of a B&D S&M scenario I mean its Vegas

[Teresa]

Jaylyn,
I can't help feeling she was trying to pick someone up, if you did a count of how many would want to go that revealing I'm sure you'd only need one hand to count on. Maybe her thought was if you can't get away with it in Vegas where else can you ?
It is a shame she wasn't reported, Vegas does have so many visitors it should have been stopped .

[Tracii G]

I agree those types (op) know they are looking like a hot mess and showing their guy parts and thats what gets them off.
Is it right or acceptable? No its not and they do it anyway.
Types like that are using us as a platform to do their quirky fetish in public. Showing their guy parts tells me this person is not a CD'er just a perv.
These pervs do give us a bad name.
If I were out dressed and came across one of these guys yes I would say something to them.

[Dana44]

When I was in Vegas, one who came in from another country was in a very short skirt. She went to a club and was pestered so bad that I saw here in slacks the rest of the trip. We were friends and she said that she learned a lesson. But that person on the side walk was mentally challenged and probably should have been picked up by the police for indecent exposure. Even a girl out there showing her privates would be a large problem for our prudent nation.

[aprilgirl]

On a related subject, my wife and I were at Be All, which was our first time attending any type of tg convention. On the first night, while taking a break from the dance floor, we witnessed one gal having an especially good time kicking up her heels, wearing a short dress that belied her age. She had chosen to go commando that evening, which neither of us were trying to determine, but couldn’t help but notice. All I could say at the time was ‘It’s a broad spectrum”, and fortunately, my wife knew that.

[Pat]

I kind of agree with "it's a broad spectrum" -- we may not like all the people under our umbrella, but we have to deal with them. Also you can't know the accuracy of the story. The best move is just to find a way to say that you've heard that few CDs are like that. I also agree that that sort of thing is a total amateur move (assuming a non-hooker.) ;)

[Jaylyn]

I like all the replies but with me not being out in this small town it was tough to stand there and just listen. I did tell her what Starr said about What Happens in Vegas Stays in Vegas.
I love dressing sometimes in very sexy dresses that are probably way too short for my age as my wife says but I don't go out. We play dress up and have fun but this woman is a friend of ours and probably saw some great shows in Vegas and I'm thinking all she came back with was this vision in her head.... Of a cross dresser. My insides wanted to say something but I just acted disgusted right along with her...standing there shaking my head and acting like I couldn't believe she saw a disgusting CD. I'm just a big old chicken really inside I guess.... Lol

[Alexa CD]

There's nothing much you can do now though, and I would advise against bringing it up again. Don't worry about it, if I was in your position I wouldn't have had so much to say either. It's just one of those situations where you think of a good reply later. I probably would have said something in a surely not kind of way, you know, say something that puts both of you back into a neutral position where you can both equally assume that they're not all like that.

[stacycoral]

This is why i don't like the term Crossdressing, because anyone that wears anything design for the other sex( to be nice), can say i am a crossdresser or i am out crossdressing just because i wearing female or male clothes. That is why i call myself a T-girl, i heard men say look at me i am crossdressing because they a skirt or female top on. I sorry to hear about your friends, Thanks for bring this up Jaylyn. hugs.

[sometimes_miss]

We have to remember too, that most respectable women would feel the same way about a GG who was wearing a skirt so short that she wound up exposing her genitals. So it wasn't just about it being a man. It was about someone being crude to the point of being disgusting, and it made her mad that someone would do that, man OR woman.
However, the part about her feeling that he should be locked up may have only been a knee jerk reaction to what she felt was a guy making fun of women in general, his insult being that he was parodying attractive women's behavior in an inappropriate manner.

[sara66]

He may have been a cd, but never rule out shock value or attention seeking. This is the same for any group from GG to drag queen to goth. They can do more harm for the group in 30 seconds than can be repair in several years.
Sara

[JenniferMBlack]

I'm not going to excuse the behavior of the person. but being it was the Las Vegas strip there is a possibility this individual is one of those street prefformers that is inappropriately dressed in all manners. They dress and do things to shock poeple like the guy on Fremont wearing only a banana hammock. I can't say for sure this is the case for sure but a Def finale possibility.

[CONSUELO]

People from all sorts of communities and groups sometimes do very inappropriate things. It is unfortunate but we cannot stop it. Look at what many college students do over "spring break". Look at the web site that purports to show shoppers at Walgreen's who are dressed very inappropriately.

There is little we can do about it and thank goodness most people have the sense to understand that one badly dressed or badly behaved person is not representative of the entire class. Also, look around you when you are out in public. Most people dress really badly anyway. Today I was behind a young woman going into a pharmacy and her choice of clothing was appalling. I didn't then make the illogical jump to say that all young women are like that.

Your comeback should have been to perhaps mention some other examples of bad behavior by other members of the general public.

[Alice Torn]

Men that do such things, remind me of the kind of guys, that run onto pro sports fields, disrupting sporting events. Or, sports fans who throw bottles at ball players, or start fan riots, making all fans look bad.

[Tina_gm]

While there are many of us that do blend in and are hardly noticed, sadly it seems that the ones who are most visible are the ones who are CDing for some cheap dirty low sexual thrill. I remember seeing a horribly dressed CDer in Salem Mass. Middle of the day, dressing exactly like a 20 y/o poll dancer, or perhaps a very unclassy version of party girl, also of about the same age. Yet, the CDer was likely in their mid 50's if not later. Hard to tell with nearly clown make up on. To say they didn't blend in, fit in would be an understatement.

So, people who think of CDer and only see that, well, that is the only thing they are going to think of when they think of CDing, or pretty much trans anything. Ru Pauls drag race.... Jerry Springer..... the list goes on and on and on. On the CD end of the spectrum, while many of us do want to or are getting out, we also try to bring very little attention to ourselves. And let's face it, many of us do not go out at all. And also lets face it, we are a very small minority (all trans together people combined). Soooo.... This is what people see mostly, and when this is all you basically see, or at least recognize seeing, the attitudes are really not very surprising at all. CDers are not always our own best allies.

[bimini1]

I've learned to say to each his/her own. I've been with some CDs who say let me see just how short I can skirt this skirt and get away with it. And you know what, if that's what you wanna do, go for it. It used to make me uncomfortable, because I always try to dress appropriately. You can be classy and sexy simultaneously you know.

Now this person skirted it to a point it's against the law, last I heard exposure is a criminal offense.
Speaking of which I got similar responses from a friend of ours who works vice. He's all for gays but told us he draws the lines at what he called "trannys". He apparently encounters many on the "stroll" who let is all hang out so to speak. He thinks they all are like that. Paints us all with the same brush based on what he experiences daily. It is what it is.

But at the end of the day I can only be responsible for me, and if I didnt have gender issues myself, after this kind of programming, it could very well be me with these negative attitudes towards "those people".

[Stephanie47]

Sure, each to his/her own, but, when a group is trying to gain acceptance or be viewed as mainstream, then people like that reflect negatively on the rest. It wasn't too long ago the gay men were swept under one umbrella of sex in bathhouses. None were viewed in a favorable light. Just imagine want would happen if that man in a dress with his genitals hanging out went into the ladies room at Target. In my city of 200,000 I may see one cross dresser or at least can identify one cross dresser every two years. If I was on the fence about the bathroom law and that man was all I would ever see, what would my response be?

[Jenniferathome]

This person is a "flasher" not a cross dresser.

This person should be arrested like any flasher. Had I seen this, I would have intervened not because this mutant gives cross dressers a bad reputation but because it just wrong.

By the way, you SHOULD HAVE defended cross dressers. Not from an "in the know" standpoint, but that this idiot is clearly just a sick flasher.

[Alice Torn]

Jennifer at home. Right on.

[Princess Chantal]

I wonder if your friend's transphobia exaggerated what was reality.
A co worker who also helps his parents at their pizza restaurant told me of a crossdressing customer that came in one night. He said how gross it was touching the crossdressers hairy hands when taking the money. Later in the day of him describing his encounter to me, the vice president of the company came in an we greeted him with handshakes. He had excessively hairy hands and arms, so I asked my coworker if he needed some therapy after that "gross" handshake. In which he replied with "what do you mean" and I answered with "does the suit and tie change your reaction to a man's hairy hands"

[flatlander_48]

P C:

That was a lesson in how irrational the thinking is for some people. It's like people don't HEAR what they say.

DeeAnn

[Robin414]

Wow, lots of thoughts come to mind on this one.

Not having been a eye witness I'll take it at face value and sounds like a pervert getting off on flashing which is just plain messed up and down right illegal.

These 'events' do totally discredit the community, I'm not down on fetishism or kinky stuff but keep the blatant stuff private.

Now the sticky part and the reason legal documents are typed on 14" paper. This if accurate was clearly crossing the line but begs the question...where's the line?

Given there's no 'governing body' I guess it's up to us to educate when given the opportunity. I know hind sight is 20/20 but I like Sherry's point, use Caitlyn as your source of information to educate on the difference between deprived pervert and legitimate gender fluid

[Eryn]

Displaying genitalia in public is illegal, even in Las Vegas. This person isn't a cross-dresser, he's an exhibitionist.

[Tina_gm]

Yes, a flasher or whatever, yes illegal. But also still a CDer too. And, that is the problem. Far too many people see too much of this type of behavior without seeing those who are presenting casually, just looking and acting like any other woman. Like the person I mentioned in Salem. It wasn't the CDing that gets your attention, it is how they were CDing. Now, people are free to express themselves however they wish to. (not exposing themselves obviously) but if they want to dress like a street walker, or some sort of adult entertainer whatever there isn't much we can do. Looking like that, standing out so much not for being a CDer, but for the outlandish ways they present themselves are not going to be getting many people to be more open minded and accepting of CDing.

I remember seeing a sister in NYC, and I think she blended well enough that most really didn't recognize. I saw enough tell tale signs that made me pretty certain of them. They were dressed casually, but decently. Just blending in being a part of society. If people see more of this, and less of the outlandishly dressed or horribly behaved, it will help our cause of being more accepted and respected.

[flatlander_48]

If people see more of this, and less of the outlandishly dressed or horribly behaved, it will help our cause of being more accepted and respected.

You realize this is EXACTLY what the gays said about Drag Queens?

DeeAnn

[Tina_gm]

Deean- the gays were correct. I know there is still quite a ways to go with gay acceptance, but it has come a long long way. Remember the movie the Birdcage? Nathan Lanes' character was what people thought of when they thought of gay men, not his partner played by Robin Williams. When more people started to see guys who happened to be gay, more like the Robin Williams' character, without the super over the top behavior, and also not being a DQ, then there was more acceptance. (exclaimer) I am not putting down DQ's. And even there, there is more acceptance, but I am saying that when breaking free from the molded stereotype, acceptance is more attainable.

[flatlander_48]

Yes, but we have to practice what we preach: Inclusion. If we aren't inclusive, how can we tell others to be?

DeeAnn

[Tina_gm]

Well, you would be right about that. I am sort of saying that so long as that is what people see the most of, we can't really complain or expect the general public to feel differently about us.

[Zooey]

As much as I understand the resentment of it, I believe in the value of "respectability politics" in situations like this.

Or, as it's always also been known, "politics".

[Alexa CD]

Gaby. It is ultimately, for both CD and transgender people the ones that do not pass that give the concept or label or whatever a bad name. The people who accept it and don't mind don't care, it's the ones that do care and do mind that have to be brought around. If the issue, that they have an issue with is thrown in their faces they are obviously not going to be pleased, they don't like difference, they don't like people who do not appear normal as either male or female. Out of sight and out of mind. If OUT and if you don't like it I don't care, is an excellent way to cause issues for everyone. Nails that stick out get hammered. I think everyone in the CD and trans community need to start considering everyone else and start making an effort to move towards a goal that would be beneficial for everyone.

The last thing any respectable, passable CD should do is liken his or herself to the absurd person in the original post. We need to distance those that want to be accepted from those that want to be a spectacle. I would have ignored it.

[AllieSF]

I understand the over the top dresser, whether CD or TS, and yes there are both out there in minimal numbers, can cause some people discomfort and even hamper their ability to recognize that what they see is the rare exception rather than the norm. However, for anyone here to tell someone else how to present themselves is totally ludicrous. Who sets the standard, when is short too short, or bright too bright? We have had these discussions periodically ever since I joined this site almost 10 years ago. In the last few years they have fortunately been few in number as members here came to realize that personal rights and freedoms for all of us are more important than what others think about a few of us.

We want acceptance and cannot accept out own neighbors and cousins. There are people who try to pass and blend and just can't or don't always get it right. Reading what some write here, even those innocents should stay home until they get it perfect. That is pure bull. There is always going to be outliers in every area that does not conform to the norm. People don't like it, but do not judge everyone else by those outliers. If they do, they are the ignorant ones. We want our rights to be who we are and we have to respect others' rights to be who they are or want to be. If they dress bad, are butt ugly or whatever, so be it. Let them live as they let us live. The general public will eventually get over it. I also believe that the general public is far more intelligent than some here gives them credit for and know and understand that a few over the top people do not represent the whole. Do the Walmart people of fame represent the general public?

As someone said above, just being out and about interacting with others does so much good for everyone. They help bring the message to all that we are normal people with different interests that do not harm anyone else.

As for the exhibitionist dressed in women's clothing, people like that exist everywhere, not just Las Vegas or big cities. People can see that they represent no one but their own sick self.

[Tina_gm]

I hate to rain on parades, but the truly passable CDer, who hasn't had modifications done is a pretty rare breed. They are also likely quite young too. I am not saying there aren't any, but for a good majority of us, a close encounter will likely be a read. I think sometimes we may think we are passing or we see others that are passing because we don't see gasps of horror around them. In many places now, people are not as bothered by it as they used to be, but they still do notice if close enough. Most of us really can't hide our features without modification.

[reinasblack]

more of a Transvestite then a CD.
drag queens are more over the top,tv's do not try to shave there legs are chest,tuck are look presentable are passable.
a genderF**k is gonna have a beard and a dress on in one scene.




[ QUOTE=StarrOfDelite;3946265]1. It sounds to me that the individual who exposed himself was probably exactly the type of "crossdresser" whom the Haters have in mind when they obsess about male perverts dressing en femme to gain access to ladies' restrooms.
2. This person was only technically a crossdresser, in the sense that anyone who wear clothes of the opposite gender is a crossdresser. I don't want to get into a long discussion of exhibitionism, which is obviously a recognized psychological disorder, but this is typically done only by males who identify as males. It's been theorized that these individuals perceive themselves as being inadequate as males, and display their genitals as if to tell the world, "I am a Man!"
3, I think that it's unfortunate that your friend jumped to the conclusion that this person's desire was to be a woman, as this undoubtedly was not the case. He probably chose to dress in drag as a way to attract attention. You probably did the right thing by not trying to correct her, since I rather expect that she had that attitude about CD's and TS's before this incident, and it only reinforced her prejudices.
4. Your friend did the world a disservice by not calling the police. Exhibitionist sexual behavior is a crime in all fifty states, and usually the only way that a person who is an exhibitionist gets the proper medical treatment is if the police and judicial authorities get involved. Exhibitionists usually don't stop exposing themselves without the intervention of some external agency, either the state or family/peer pressure .
5. Whatever happened to the rule that, "What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas?" :D[/QUOTE]

[PattyT]

A CD should dress modestly. The bottom line is that the clothes should be suitable to the physic. Not everyone can look good in a short skirt or very tight pants. A basic rule would be, "Don't flaunt what you haven't got." All of this holds true to the GGs as well. I've seen GGs in shorts and short skirts who are an eyesore as their legs and other aspects of their anatomy did not allow for this. One cannot always wears what one wants to wear. You have to be careful to avoid a style which might antagonize those around you, especially if your physic does not match this style. Self honesty and common sense applies here.
An other rule of thumb would be to try to dress in a way appropriate to the area of the country you live in. This would be an important factor if you live in a conservative area. Another rule of thumb would be to try to look "nice" or even a bit "classy". GGs often don't seem to care much how they dress and often dress in an androgynous way. I think people appreciate those who dress in what one might call a "higher class" way.
I can only offer my own experience. I find that the Lolita fashion I wear really helps　　　 me get by really well. There are a range of styles so I can dress according to my mood. This is a kind of soft, sweet style which just does not antagonize. It works far better for me than the more conventional clothing I used to wear.
People are less inclined to take offense if you dress in a good looking, peasantly appearing way.

[heatherdress]

There are very specific laws which prohibit indecent exposure, which probably describes the behavior of the person who was dressing with genitalia exposed. There are also prostitutes who crossdress and dress rather ****ty (no definition intended). It is unfortunate that these individuals diminish crossdressers in general and provide generalizations which are negative and unfair.

But as far as expecting there to be any sort of dress code for crossdressers - I don't think anyone should try and be judgmental regarding what anyone else wears. We are not talking about blending, or passing, or proper attire for attending social gatherings or dress codes for work - all of which might have arbitrary or designated limits or restrictions. But individuals, both female and male, have a right to wear what they want to. Who are we to expect a dress code for others? And does anyone really think there will be greater understanding or acceptance of crossdressers if we all dressed uniformly, or matronly, or like Stepford Wives?