Passing versus being a CD

[Tabitha_Sinn]

I hear a lot about "blending in" and "passing", and I guess that's fine for the individuals in our community who want to *appear* as GGs, but what about the fact that we are a group all our own?

For example, who ever sees a GG wearing six inch heels, unless they are in porn? But I *love* wearing six inch heels. Am I giving crossdressers a bad name? Or am I entitled to be a CROSSDRESSER, in a group all (my) our own?

It sounds like so many wanna pass as a GG, but I really don't mind being in a separate group.

But see, we are all our own individuals. some people want to pass as GGs, some people, like myself just want to be who we are.

I gave up long ago trying to pass for a GG. I mean, I *can* but I'm not interested anymore. I wanna do what *I* enjoy.

We should all be as accepting of each others differences as we are of others differences. Not every crossdresser is the same.

I was "raised" by a drag queen. And anytime I was not wearing high heels, in particularly HIGH heels, I was "cheating". Although I am not a drag queen, that is something that has always stuck with me. Not something a GG would do, but I'm not a GG. I'm a CD.

I'm not knocking those who want to pass as GG's, just saying for those of us that might fit in a different category :-)

[Rachelakld]

of course - be a bit boring if we were all the same.

For me "passing" seperates my CDing from those who hang around street corners late at night while trying to get clients, as that is what we were all categorized as, back in the 80's and probably even today in some areas.
I'm trying to create a more respectable image in the public mind.

While I've not yet seen a male at my shops with heels, what do you do in your heels? where do you go? what do you wear with them?

By the way, my daughters who are not in to porn, have 6 inch heels for their school balls (unfortunately they are only worn at friends parties after the balls finish, because working with babies and wearing heels is a no-no).

[Tabitha_Sinn]

Wow Rachel! Your daughters wear six inch heels? I must admit I am surprised! But that's very cool :-)

As for your questions...I don't go out out much anymore, and I don't mind. Sometimes I will wear heels to clean the house, just because I like to. What do I wear them with? Sometimes nothing to be honest!

I understand what you mean about "trying to create a more respectable image", but (mind you I was "raised" by a drag queen!) doesn't it count for what we enjoy? Isn't it *their* problem if they don't like it?

[Kate Simmons]

I'm just myself whether en femme or en homme. If others see me as a woman, that's their perception I guess. :battingeyelashes::)

[Martha G]

I am a male who enjoys being a male. But I do enjoy dressing as a woman.

When I am dressed as a woman, namely Martha,I become a woman mentally. I enjoy at that time being a woman.

Thus I want to pass as a woman. I do make an attractive and passable woman and have developed some very feminine gestures when dressed.

So I really was to pass as a woman when dressed. I also thoroughly enjoy being a woman as well.

[Fiona123]

I said in a different post I am a middle aged man with a hairy middle aged body (yuck). No gonna pass any time soon. I love being en femme in private. I love the fantasy if being a woman.

[Ressie]

It's all crossdressing. Blending vs not-blending would be a better title. The consideration is, how much attention do you want to draw to yourself? Just being who you are is fine, but it could lead to getting the wrong kind of attention. High heels are one thing but adding fishnet stockings and a leather miniskirt isn't wise unless you're out clubbing etc.

[Tracii G]

What you do at home is one thing but out in public try to tone it down a few notches is always a good idea.
If you want to look like a working girl in public you have every right to do so but be ready for the consequences.
If you want to dress and be you well thats fine I do it every day.

[Jenniferathome]

Stripper heels, fishnets, and a miniskirt at the mall are a perfect stereotype of what a cross dresser is to most normals, I would think.

Do you have to be a stereotype to be your own person? Appropriate attire for the venue, time, day, event, etc is simply "appropriate." You going clubbing? Cut loose. Going to the grocery store? Be normal. Normal has a very broad range and can be one's own person, I should think.

And as for the "passing as a GG" comment, I have to write again that that is a fantasy for all but a very select, genetic lottery winners. The normals typically say noting because they don't care. I don't pass and I am not out to make a statement or be a stereotype.

[SeanErin]

Guess I am too simple, racer backs and baseball jersey....

[Stephanie47]

I am in agreement with Jennifer

I think whatever one decides to wear at home is fine. I'm an in-home cross-dresser whose domain is the backyard and home with some forays in the evening into the world. For me wearing women's clothing is a 'private affair.' At home I will always 'dress up' as in being presentable. It's always a dress, hosiery, heels, all the proper undergarments and a wig. Ask me why I do what I do, and, I cannot really give anyone an answer. That's the answer I gave my wife, and, it's the truth. That's totally different than 'how I feel' when I am wearing women's clothing.....at peace, less stress.

If a person just wishes to wear six inch heels or any other attire that's their business. Some of this forum just wear a woman's panty; some hosiery; etc. Maybe some would be characterized as having a 'fetish.'

Currently, any male wearing female clothing is under scrutiny or outright attack....."the bathroom wars." It is appalling how some are being treated and viewed. I'm a casual in-home cross-dresser. My heart goes out to transwomen.

I've seen pictures of some very very passable women on this site, and, some not so passable. I'm sure I've encountered some very passable women at the mall, but, then I would not know it. I've encountered some not so passable cross-dressers. I personally think it is unfortunate for the greater cross-dressing and transwomen community, when I see what "I" consider to be inappropriate attire at a particular venue. If we are attempting to gain acceptance, not for me, but for transpeople, I think it is imperative to act as a woman and dress appropriately.

[Taylor186]

But see, we are all our own individuals. some people want to pass as GGs, some people, like myself just want to be who we are.

Having been around a while, I would say that everyone here just wants to be "who they are." For some some that includes the desire to pass and for some it does not.

[becky77]

Not something a GG would do, but I'm not a GG. I'm a CD.

I'm not knocking those who want to pass as GG's, just saying for those of us that might fit in a different category :-)

I totally get that and see nothing wrong with what you are doing, my only confusion is if you are happily a male CD who is comfortable with your own sense of gender expression why then use a female name?

Why not fully own it? If you are crossdressing in a non-conforming way and happy with your male identity why don't you use your male name?
In that way you really would be making a statement that you are your own category.

There are an awful lot of CDers on here that claim they are not really trans and they are happy being male yet then confuse things by using female pronouns and a female name??

For example there are some here who rightfully fret that their wives may worry they want to become a woman and Transition, those people are often quite vocal about distancing themselves from being Trans and especially TS, which I get.
But don't you think your wives would feel less concerned if you just used a male name and pronouns?

It's just something I noticed that seems to contradict what is being said.


"I like being a man and don't have any feelings to be a woman also I'm strictly Hetero, but call me Cindy and refer to me as her" If you think about it's that's pretty confusing to an outsider they are going to assume you are Trans and want to be a woman. So by default unless you own being a male Crossdressers and answer to masculine descriptors, the right thing to do would be to dress respectfully and represent the Trans community fairly.

Or is the name also part of the expression?

[Heidi Stevens]

Hey Tabatha, most of us here are accepting of what ever variation of cross dressing floats your boat. So when most folks ask what you're trying to accomplish with your dressing or look, we try to help them out to be their best with out drawing unwanted attention. So when I offer advice to help someone pass in public, I'm not degrading any of you who have no desire to be seen in a public venue.
BTW, being raised by a drag queen sounds like a kernel for a great personal story.

[ClosetED]

I dress to please me, but I have tried outfits that would blend in with local women who want to be feminine. I have not ventured out as yet, but if I did, I would try to blend. Just like I go to work to fit other co-workers, I don't come to work in my tuxedo or my bathing suit. On casual Friday, I wear casual clothes. It is being part of society, unless you want to make a statement that you disagree with society and are prepared to attract attention for it.

As to female name, rather than stick with male name, I consider us a coin - we have a heads and a tail side. We are still a coin, but it makes it clearer to others when showing a specific side to use the correct pronoun of heads or tails. If non-specific, you could just use coin (or human or person).
Hugs, Ellen

[Jenniferathome]

... my only confusion is if you are happily a male CD who is comfortable with your own sense of gender expression why then use a female name?...

"I like being a man and don't have any feelings to be a woman also I'm strictly Hetero, but call me Cindy and refer to me as her" If you think about it's that's pretty confusing to an outsider they are going to assume you are Trans and want to be a woman. So by default unless you own being a male Crossdressers and answer to masculine descriptors, the right thing to do would be to dress respectfully and represent the Trans community fairly.

Or is the name also part of the expression?

Becky, for me it is a simple case of convention and convenience. When out in the world, if my wife or a friend called out, "Hey Joe, come look at this dress." It would be odd for me and the normals to react to that. So, it's really more about blending in than going for shock and awe. When alone with my wife, she calls me by my male name and pronoun.

I'll add that if my male name were androgynous: Chris, Terry, etc, I'd use that name. Jennifer or Jen has no special meaning to me other than a name I liked,

[heatherdress]

Tabitha - I understand your sentiments and agree 100%. Everyone should wear what they want to wear and not be judgmental about the attire of others. There are no crossdressing rules. If anyone wants to go out and attract attention, that is their business. No one owes anyone else an approved crossdresser appearance. There are risks attracting attention, but it is up to each person to decide how they want to look and they must evaluate their own safety and comfort.

[SeanErin]

Newbie again, but why would we have to "pass"? Does it matter if I go out and look like a guy in a dress,which is what it is foe me... That rolls off my back, get over it world. Guess I learned a bit ago to not care what people think, that is their problem.

[becky77]

Becky, for me it is a simple case of convention and convenience. When out in the world, if my wife or a friend called out, "Hey Joe, come look at this dress." It would be odd for me and the normals to react to that. So, it's really more about blending in than going for shock and awe. ,
That makes perfect sense, the majority of CDers being closeted in regards to most friends, family and work don't know are in effect trying to remain as inconspicuous as possible therefore using a female name when out seems logical.

But:
a) Why on here though? A CD forum where there is no need for subterfuge other than concealing your real name perhaps, but still why not use a male identifier that corresponds with how you identify?
b) Why someone who isn't trying to fly under the radar when out and who is openly dressing in a non-typical female appropriate dress, again why are they happy to present as a CD which in this case is man wearing women's clothes if that's the look they are happy with all power to them but if they then use a female name and pronouns then that confuses people into thinking a Tran's identity is in evidence. That confuses me also.

Eg.
Guy goes to the supermarket in 6" heels, leather mini skirt, stockings and boob tube. Hopefully most will agree this isn't the essence of being female rather than an enjoyment of feminine expression?
If conversation is made and he says "Yeah I'm John I like cross dressing". Those spoken with will leave hopefully with curiosity and a little admiration for him being different and open.
If in the conversation he instead says "Yes my names Brenda this is who I am".
More than likely those people instead might be offended that he 'thinks that's how a woman dresses' and by his words assume all he is Trans and they are all like that.

This seems unnecessary and damaging to those who are Trans in nature be it TS, somewhere inbetween or fluid who want to be taken more seriously.
Perception is everything.

Is this a fair question?

[StarrOfDelite]

Technically, the term "crosssdressing" in the context of the M2F crossdressisng forum covers everything from the male who wears pantyhose or women's panties once or twice a month, to the male who wears women's intimates and outer garments 24/7/365. There are many reasons why a person might want to do this, and the term itself does not imply anything regarding gender identity or sexual preferences.

The OP's preference for the Drag Queen presentation is just as legitimate as that of a Full-time person in the context of the term. Not better, not worse, just different.

The desire to pass might be a reason for crossdressing, but it's not a variant or alternate definition of the term.

[Teresa]

Tabitha,
I recall seeing my daughter in law in very high heels, I asked her if she needed a step ladder to get into them.

I had to see my GP recently and asked her about the arthritis in my big toes, she looked at her notes , smiled and turned to me saying it shouldn't be a problem as long as you're wearing sensible shoes, I replied no nothing over a 4" heel !

[Jenniferathome]

Becky,

To your example, I agree. A name will not make you blend in.

As to the "why on this forum" question, again, it's convenience. For me, my male name does not go well with my female image. Frankly, no name really matters here it just convention, nothing more.

I'll share a real life story that illustrates the point. I once met a genetic female at a customer whose name was Larry. No joke. Larry. I was so taken aback I had to ask if it was a nickname or some family name, but no, her Dad liked Larry and that was that. Now, every time I called or met Larry subsequently, I was always taken aback. It NEVER got normal. It's just odd. For me, that is the same thing here. My female picture and Bill just don't go together well. Round peg in square hole kind of thing. I'll add that when I created my username, I was trying to be clever/funny. Now that I am going out occasionally, it helps when being out, as I mentioned previously.

While I agree with your "it's unnecessary" comment, I do not agree with the "damaging" part of it. How can it be damaging? I think the normals with whom I interact, prefer to hear and use a female name when I am dressed that way. That goes back to my "Larry" story. Meeting and chatting with a cross dresser can be jarring enough for a virgin. Throw in a male name and the whole relationship gets more wonky. By the way, I want to be taken seriously in either mode I present. My choice of moniker is irrelevant to that.

[SeanErin]

Wow, lots of opinions. I guess I was at if I present as a woman and fail, I am an ugly woman or a guy in a dress. If I "pass", I am relatively easy on the eye to either gender. That is society, but that is a standard
I am going nowhere near.

[Magnetar GG]

As far as I understand, my husband (who isn't on here) wants to blend in because of two reasons. First, he is self-conscious and would like to draw as little attention to himself as possible when dressed. He has not been out of the house, though should he decide to at some point go out, he wants to make sure he has it down as best as he can. Also, I believe that for him, going a bit over the top in comparison to what a typical GG wears is closer to drag (i.e. exaggerated), which he doesn't want.
The second reason is because when he really dresses up, he's trying to get as close to his ideal image of female as possible. He wants to be beautiful, not just a guy dressed in women's clothing.
That doesn't mean that he doesn't partly dress or underdress much more often. If the clothing item in question is "gender neutral" even if it was purchased in the women's section, he'll wear that on a more regular basis - and that I think eases the need to dress up to the nines as much while still giving him that comfort knowing that he has on something more feminine.
Otherwise, he still uses his male name/pronouns. I think at one point he tried to think up a name for using online, and he may have told me, but that was the first and last time I heard of it. I guess when you're dressed at home, it doesn't matter what name you use, most of the time it's just the two of us, and we rarely use each other's names in conversation. If one of us is speaking, it's generally understood that it's directed at the other person.

[AllieSF]

Tabitha, You have the right to be who you are and how you choose to do that. Whether someone wears flats or 6" heels out is their choice. If they have done it a few times (the 6" heels) they have a pretty good idea how others will react and have learned to accept it. My very strong opinion is dress as you want when you want and be damned all the others. As long as it is legal and does not physically harming anyone else, it is not your problem how they feel. You want to wear a short skirt, tight top with big breasts, go for it. Now, I may not want to be with you when dressed that way, and may even giggle or make a comment to whomever I am with. But I will never deny you your right to do that. The fashion police and those overly sensitive would want, demand or hope that you did not dress like that, but in the end it is your business and not theirs, period.

As for harming our overall image, hurt TS's chances to advance and just live a normal life, yes, that may have a very small impact on them. However, it seems like everyone here likes to lump all of the general public into that narrow range of people who are not that intelligent, do not like change and look for oddities in others as lame excuses to denigrate them. However, real life people are not that way. The vast majority really are nice people who do not care and generally look at our differences as an oddity to be soon forgotten until they encounter it again. They may not understand, yet, but they don't immediately turn to negative thoughts and opinions about all of us. Most adults and a lot of younger people too have seen the rare oddities of personalities, looks and deformities. They realize they are just that, rare and different from the norm, and then move on with their own lives.

Becky: To help you out, do a search here for threads on "why have a female name". There have been several in the past explaining many times the why, with many replies similar to what has already been stated above. There have been very few members here that have ever stated that they get confused because we use female names. For me, it would confuse me to see a well presenting CD out introducing himself as Jack, and some of us, though a very small number, actually do that. So be it, and I can live with that.

Returning to hurting our trans cause, TS's, and others, I think that we really need to look and see how many really are out there presenting to the general public in non-presentable ways. I believe that number is extremely small and thus its affect on the overall trans population is minimal. Every part of society has its outliers who refuse to conform to the generally accepted norms. Some people make a big deal of it and others just accept it as a fact of life and sometimes even like it as it brings welcomed diversity into all of our lives. Imagine post war China and all of the Mao outfits/uniforms. Now that China has opened up so much, the local views have greatly improved.

[becky77]

Jennifer I wasn't referring to how you present, using a female name in those circumstances is common sense.
I meant someone who is presenting more like a Transvestite where the inspiration for dressing is probably more sexual in nature and unrelated to any kind of female identity.
To use a female name seems a little disingenuous, if they want someone to better understand their 'category' (Tabitha's word) then the use of a male name kinda cements that they are still confident in their identity and therefore only the form of expression is relevant.

I don't know, I just wonder will the CD community ever have fair representation when even those who are strong in their male status hide behind a female name.
I'm just saying when those who say they don't wish to be considered Transgender how can they expect to be seen as different to being Trans when they hide within the binary rules?

I fully understand the need to remain hidden but in hiding within the binary as in blending or passing you will inadvertently be pulled into and contribute to the image of the TG umbrella.

Again not to target you Jennifer but you are quite secure in your male identity and sexuality :)
If I hadn't read your posts, by how you present and use of female name etc I would think you are definitely TG. This isn't an issue of course but if within yourself you only wanted to be viewed as a male CD then there would need to be some obvious claim on your gender when dressing.

The question in this case isn't particularly relevant to alot here it's really aimed at those who take issue with being considered Trans or under the TG umbrella. Although I'm not sure how many who feel like that are actually out and visible?

[Jenniferathome]

Becky,

"Jennifer I wasn't referring to how you present, using a female name in those circumstances is common sense.
I meant someone who is presenting more like a Transvestite where the inspiration for dressing is probably more sexual in nature and unrelated to any kind of female identity.
To use a female name seems a little disingenuous,.."

I don't get that either. Fantasy?

"I'm just saying when those who say they don't wish to be considered Transgender how can they expect to be seen as different to being Trans when they hide within the binary rules?...."

Perhaps you are placing too much importance on this name issue? For some, it may be part of the fantasy of being "female" for others (myself) a blending issue/convenience and still for others a misperception that they were supposed to choose a female name. I just don't feel like it's a big deal but I am not living your trans life.

"...but if within yourself you only wanted to be viewed as a male CD then there would need to be some obvious claim on your gender when dressing...."

It seems odd to me that anyone would WANT to be seen as a cross dresser as I think that is the most weird option available to the normals. Now, I don't mind explaining to someone that I am just a cross dresser if the conversation goes there, however. So if I am perceived as trans, I am more "normal" to the normals. But regardless of how one perceives me, it doesn't change what's in my head. I don't consider myself trans or TG but I am not offended if some thinks that. Strange world we live in.

[becky77]

It seems odd to me that anyone would WANT to be seen as a cross dresser as I think that is the most weird option

That's what I'm trying to get at, why is it weird? What's wrong with being seen as a Crossdresser?
You say you are a Crossdresser, man who likes to wear female clothing? Are you in someway doing a disservice to Crossdressing by hiding your male identity by appearing more TG/TS rather than being open as what you are a crossdresser which is currently viewed as weird and will remain so if that cycle of thought continues.
You by your own statement are saying to be perceived as Trans or a passing woman is more normal.
But how can Crossdressers ever hope to be viewed as normal when even their own are being furtive about their Crossdressing?

I'm asking out of curiosity and because I don't know, I'm trying hard not to offend.

Tabatha's OP is interesting, why can't she just BE a Crossdresser? For what purpose is blending or passing for someone who does not feel the pull to be identified as a female? Is it purely to be seen as normal and not standout, which as I said is fully understandable but in the greater scheme of things does nothing to progress the rights or presence of the crossdressing community.

We say man in a dress like it's a bad thing rather than just stating it as a fact.
If you really think about it if all those who are confident in their maleness but equally like to CD ever have a chance of it one day being acceptable, then only someone like Tabatha or one of the admirable people out there wearing say a skirt and heels but otherwise male are the only people showing visibility for crossdressing as a subject in it's own right.

Jennifer unless you specifically get in conversation you will be viewed as one of those who want to be a woman, it perpetuates the myth that cross dressers want to be women or are weird.

Which leads me onto my next question, if you really think about it does the need to dress fully as in make up, hair the full shaboodle come from an inner requirement to emulate a full female look.
Or does it come from a need to look normal and not stand out?

Thanks for answering.

[docrobbysherry]

Nothing against those that go presenting as who they feel they r. U r what the transgender battle going on now ia all about!:thumbsup:

Biut, I'm a CD, not a TS. I want to see a woman in my mirror, not a man in a dress. And, I go to great lengths to achieve that end.:daydreaming:

When it comes to going out, I have found the perfect way to pass EVERY TIME! As a result, I never have the worries or stress that I get from being out as a man in a dress in vanillaland.:)

I go to mundane places like Denny's, Target, and Starbucks in drab!:heehee:

[Jenniferathome]

The context is important. I wrote, "the most weird option..." So, weirder than being trans even though I think most normals thing trans is weird as well, just less weird than cross dressing. So why would anyone want to be seen as weird let alone weirder? It fundamentally doesn't matter what someone else thinks, but as humans, none of us like to be disliked, degraded, thought of as "less." That's true of anyone, I believe. I don't want to be thought of negatively, but if I am, then so be it, water off a ducks back for me.

Now, "why is it weird?" Really? Anything not mainstream is "weird" in the most basic sense. I use the word weird to mean way different than what the average person considers normal. Cross dressing is not normal. It defies explanation. And it defies explanation in way that trans people and gay people do not have to contend with. While I believe genetics drives all of us (gay, trans,CD), I believe the normals can accept that trans and gay people are genetically driven to be that way (I made my thesis in another post) but cross dressing would not get that same nod.

"Jennifer unless you specifically get in conversation you will be viewed as one of those who want to be a woman, it perpetuates the myth that cross dressers want to be women or are weird.

Yes, I think that some normals think I want to be, to transition, to a woman. Others might think I have transitioned and most likely think I'm a dude in a dress. So, a conversation will solve the mystery. But what would you have me do prior to that conversation? Wear a sign? Megaphone? You probably know I ride bikes. I spend about 1000 times more time riding a bike than I do cross dressing. When I meet people, they don't know I ride bikes. I don't announce it either. They might see my harsh tan lines (and scars) and ask, it has happened. So, it comes out organically. How else can it work? How do I not perpetuate this myth?

Which leads me onto my next question, if you really think about it does the need to dress fully as in make up, hair the full shaboodle come from an inner requirement to emulate a full female look.
Or does it come from a need to look normal and not stand out?"

I used to live in Japan. They have some great proverbs or kotowaza. One that really fits here is, "The nail that sticks out is hammered down." It's a conformity thing. That nail that sticks out also disturbs the the "wa" or the harmony of the group. I want to be me but I also want the public to be comfortable around me. I don't want to disturb anyone's "wa" if I can avoid doing so. So, I want to look "normal." (how funny is that comment!). Now, about "emulating the female look? isn't that the same as "looking normal"? Can we call it "fitting in"? Regardless, if I do anything, I try to do it very well. I don't half-ass anything. That is just my nature. Could that be part of the puzzle? Clearly, cross dressing is fulfilling some need I have. It's not to BE a woman, of that I am certain. Could it be simply that it's a way letting go? Did genetics make this outlet a reality for me? I don't know.

I do not think I am harming the cause of trans people nor cross dressers. I am not out to make a mockery of women nor be a caricature of them. I am trying be genuine, always.

[Nikki.]

Becky, great question(s). this is one of those questions or points of discussion I appreciate as I speculate regarding my cross dressing/gender expression.

I chose the name Nikki for a few reasons:

1. I use a pseudonym on every online forum I create an account at, typically for anonymity.
2. I joined a local CD/TG email list first where they highly recommend picking a femme name. So did and picked Nikki, for no reason. it has no significance to me. So when I created an account here I also used Nikki.
3. As a lurker here and on other TG/CD forums, it seemed the norm to use a femme name.

I identify as a CD with a non binary gender ID. To me clothes are part of the cross gender expression. I like the whole enchilada- makeup, wig etc. A completely female appearance is my goal. I don't have any strong desire to work on mannerisms or voice- maybe a little. But I can see the possibility of that changing as I explore. I was going down the path of complete female presentation in my late teens and early 20's. Then I met my wife, she kinda freaked at anything beyond lingerie, so I put the kabosh on the full transformation aspect, and convinced myself I had a little cd lingerie fetish and that was it. I was in deep denial.

So twenty some odd years later I came out to myself and to my wife. But 25 years is a long time. And really, since I got caught around 5 or 6, it's been around 40 years that I've been suppressing any gesture, voice inflection or any trait I thought might out me as a CD. So when I dress up, I feel like a guy in women's clothes and makeup, but maybe if I had been honest and out a lot earlier, I wouldn't, and would identify more with a femme name and personna when dressed. I dunno. Maybe the more time I spend dressed that stuff will develop. I'm open to the possibility. I'm just gonna roll with it and see what happens, which is hard for me, cause I've always felt like Mr. Spock, in control of my feelings and emotions.

I do agree with Jennifer it would be even weirder to be out and about, dressed as a woman, wearing makeup with feminine hair, but using a male name (I don't mean weird in a pejorative sense). I also appreciate your point about a male, presenting as a male, other than wearing female clothing owning it and using a male name. But that's not me.

[Shayna]

I think there may be a bit of over analysis about peoples names on internet forums. Generally, people choose to remain anonymous on forums of any nature. When I post on a basketball forum, I use a name related to my favorite team. On my music forums I use a name related to music. On a forum where cross dressers discuss being feminine, I choose a feminine name. It doesn't have a whole lot of meaning for me, just an altered version of a nickname my family called me as a kid.

Earlier in the week there was a thread about perceived hierarchy on the forum. This discussion may be symbolic of why that perception exists. If we are CDSs than we have to be in a certain box, otherwise there must be more. Not every CD is the same, nor is every situation they are in. The OP may live someplace where people wouldn't bat an eye at a man in 6"*heels. Others might be concerned for their safety if they did something like that. Personally I haven't ventured out dressed in over 20 years, and when I did way back then it did not give me a greater sense of fulfillment than when I dress at home.

Does choosing a name mean something more? I don't know. If it was just about the clothes I wouldn't enjoy putting on makeup so much. Then again, if I truly felt like a woman inside I don't think dressing would give me much pleasure. My wife is all woman and she's fine in a pair of jeans and wears minimal makeup. In many ways I may be more girly than her.

I have no idea what it all means. Most of my life is spent as a man and I'm completely comfortable with that. I can't really fully explain why, so I'm not really concerned that I chose a feminine name for the board. To the OP I would say live the way you want to. You don't owe any of us anything. Just think about what the ramifications are for your life. Perhaps some CDs being more in-your-face and less blended in would make it easier for acceptance for all CDs.

[Magnetar GG]

This is what I've come to understand from many conversations with my husband and reading the posts and comments on this forum. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
Trans = people who completely identify with the gender opposite their sex, to the point that playing the part of the assigned gender becomes unbearable.
CD = people who fall in between. They enjoy being their assigned gender AND identify to some degree as the opposite. I would say androgynous but that has another connotation (people who identify as neither and choose to appear as neither, leaving everyone guessing M or F?). CD is FeMale. It is both, but not necessarily at the same time.
So when it comes to dressing, they want to look the part of whichever they identify at that moment. But that doesn't mean they have any intention of giving up on the other. The degree to which one identifies with either gender completely varies from person to person. Hence why someone wouldn't want to look like a crossdresser, or a dude in a dress in this case. If someone wants to identify with and portray his femme side at that given moment, he is going to want to look the part too.
For some it's just the comfort of knowing they have something feminine on (i.e. underdressing)
For some it's wanting to just look the part.
Some try to take on what they imagine would be a female persona from their known personal context, possibly emulating traditional gender roles, or certain behavioral traits from women they loved or nurtured them at some point. And with that, some might want to use a female name to feel more feminine, and give this personality a character, like an actor in a movie (not to be read as you are acting, you're just being yourselves).
Part of this might be attributed to the way our minds work. We love to try to organize information in our heads into neat little categories (hence society's obsession with labelling), so when something does not easily fit into one of those pre-ordained neat little categories, the mind comes with all different ways of doing so, even if it means creating a split personality of sorts. Now I'm Bill. Now I'm Jane.
The whole part on what other people think and confusing others is also part of the whole neat little categories thing. We aren't used to it. We weren't exposed to it. We were raised thinking boy and girl. Boy likes girl, girl likes boy. Then boy maybe likes boy, girl maybe likes girl. Then they might like both. After that came well, boy is not really a boy, and boygirl might like girl or boy, and girl isn't really a girl, and girlboy might like girl or boy. There's boy or girl is neither and is just it. And CD is boy or girl is BOTH and might like girl or boy or both. It's all so damn confusing. I watched something where I think there are over 600 of these different categories now? Learning kanji might be easier at this point than trying to make sense of it all.
And really, it shouldn't be up to the individual who is not quite cisgendered to put a nametag on him/herself and say "I am this, now you may categorize me." When I have discomfort with it, and my husband wants to know, I tell him it's really just my own issues that I need to sort and make sense of. I'm having to break out from decades of conditioning and try to understand what until now was taboo and there really isn't a lot of information. It's hard to have information on a topic when there are hundreds if not thousands of variations.
I think the concern of whether or not someone is going to transition is because in some cases, CDers might not realize that they were trans to begin with. They might have been, and then finally being an adult and being able to express oneself, and the dgaf attitude that you get when you get older does help a lot with that. It's wanting to know if your husband falls in that category of someone who hasn't quite figured him/herself out.
The wife betty books don't help with that, because I believe at some point betty wants to transition.
I think that's it. If I think of more I'll add on.

[Nikki.]

the magic decoder ring of commonly accepted terminology, at least for this forum is posted at http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?162497-Some-Common-Trans-Related-Definitions-and-Abbreviations. TG is an umbrella term. Not all peeps that identify as TG want to or will transition, but generally all peeps that want to or do are TG. Basically the opposite of Cisgender. Most CD's fall under the TG umbrella, but some say they don't. I think the nomenclature matters if you're in this world for whatever reason, but if not, it's gibberish. kinda like a farmer being in earshot of two sw engineers talking shop- "wtf are those guys yammering about...."

and yeah, for family of some in exploration the idea they might discover they want or need transition could be scary and looming. from what I've read most won't. I'm confident I won't.

[AllisonS]

Regarding: If you are crossdressing in a non-conforming way and happy with your male identity why don't you use your male name?

Most names express gender. Calling yourself Mike would be like a poor fashion choice. And, for me anyway, in that mode, I'm not thinking about my male identity, happily or unhappily. I don't use my real name at restaurants either. I tell them my name is rich so I can hear them say, "Rich party of two, your table is ready".

[barbara gordon]

Blending and passing .

Sometimes I go out and I really work hard to pass and to blend. I am also sometimes just as happy to stay at home and try on a few pretty things . Either way is good for me at its own time . And I always own it .

[Zooey]

Learning kanji might be easier at this point than trying to make sense of it all.

LOL, having tried to do both... Yes, I think the kanji is easier. New kanji aren't invented 5 times daily. ;)


The wife betty books don't help with that, because I believe at some point betty wants to transition.

...and in fact, Betty did transition some years ago. That may make it worse, but yeah. :(

[StarrOfDelite]

The wife betty books don't help with that, because I believe at some point betty wants to transition.
I think that's it. If I think of more I'll add on.

Have you read Alice in Genderland by Alice (Dr. Richard) Novic? Novic is a medical doctor who didn't realize she was Trans until adulthood. Alice is bisexual, and, at the time the book was written, she was married to a Cis woman who had a laissez faire/DADT attitude towards towards the extra-marital sex. It's an informative book for trans people who have been blindsided by gender dysphoria in the middle of life, and since I'm one of those I found it helpful in the voyage to self-understanding.

I Googled to see if Novic is seeking GRS, but found no information. Perhaps Zooey or one of the others who is more tuned into transsexual news might know about that.

[Dana44]

Tabitha, My favorite heels are six inch platforms and I have worn them out. I see many women here in six inch heels and really nice boots as we are somewhat rural. And by goodness why is somebody calling out that it is wrong to have a fem name. There is s lot of things here that people don't understand and if you don't walk in their shoes, why tell somebody that a fem name is bad for a male CD, holy smokes.

Hooray for high heels.

[Magnetar GG]

Have you read Alice in Genderland by Alice (Dr. Richard) Novic? Novic is a medical doctor who didn't realize she was Trans until adulthood. Alice is bisexual, and, at the time the book was written, she was married to a Cis woman who had a laissez faire/DADT attitude towards towards the extra-marital sex. It's an informative book for trans people who have been blindsided by gender dysphoria in the middle of life, and since I'm one of those I found it helpful in the voyage to self-understanding.

I Googled to see if Novic is seeking GRS, but found no information. Perhaps Zooey or one of the others who is more tuned into transsexual news might know about that.

I have not, though I also wouldn't say that helps assuage a wife's fears that her hetero, cisgendered, knight-in-shining armor (who now suddenly likes wearing lace under that armor) might at some point decide he is no longer a he. Would you know of any books about crossdressing where it ends on a more reassuring note from a wife's point of view, and separates crossdressing from trans rather than as a stepping stone?

[Jenniferathome]

I'm glad you wrote that because I was going to offer that very warning.

[Magnetar GG]

And by goodness why is somebody calling out that it is wrong to have a fem name. There is s lot of things here that people don't understand and if you don't walk in their shoes, why tell somebody that a fem name is bad for a male CD, holy smokes.

I would have to agree with that... which is what I attempted to illustrate with my earlier, rather worded post that might not make a ton of sense as it was written right before I was headed to bed, lol. Personally I don't think having a name for your femme side makes it any more or less likely that you would seek to transition later on. Heck, I could create different personalities for myself depending on what I'm doing, name my goddess-in-the-kitchen Julia, my artiste Frida, and then when I'm wearing my jeans and a tshirt and helping my husband on a home-improvement project Bob. That doesn't mean I am a male, or have any intention of ever transitioning to one. To me, it's all in good fun.

[StarrOfDelite]

I have not, though I also wouldn't say that helps assuage a wife's fears that her hetero, cisgendered, knight-in-shining armor (who now suddenly likes wearing lace under that armor) might at some point decide he is no longer a he. Would you know of any books about crossdressing where it ends on a more reassuring note from a wife's point of view, and separates crossdressing from trans rather than as a stepping stone?

Good literature pretty much demands conflict, at least the hint or threat of tragedy, and a few other odds and ends which aren't totally compatible with a Happy Ending, so I'm not sure that the stories which end on a reassuring note exist in print outside of web forums like this.

However, having said that, Novic actually is an M.D. psychiatrist by profession, and a practicing psychotherapist, and a lot of the observations are quite illuminating no matter where an individual lands on the Trans spectrum.

I have tried to keep in mind at all times this observation of hers, "Whether CD or TS, you are not and never were a pure straight man, you're trans - and because of that you see and always have seen the world differently."

That doesn't apply with the same force to all Tran, but something that spouses should keep in mind as a general principle. I don't know if you were speaking tongue-in-cheek when you described your husband as a "cisgendered knight in shining armor," but maybe you shouldn't start from that point in your thinking and analysis, because there's a fair chance he never really was cis-gendered.

[2B Natasha]

The book " Alice in Genderland " almost made me puke. The total absence of family for his own carnal desires in the end where disgusting. He can blather on about whatever psycological BS he wants to but. I wouldn't give that book to anybody to read. Especially not my wife or anyone I knew personally.

Now regarding the OP.

Straight up. You can dress however you want do whatever you want. But make no mistake. Your not helping any cause. In another post you mentioned your desire to be dominated by a man while dressed. Well that is fine. Good on you. That is more a fetish in my book. Walking around like that outside clubs and parades does nothing but solidify the negative outlook people have about crossdressing. With the recent spat of a to trans bills sprouting up. I believe that anyone thinking that sticking it in their face and having the flip attitude that I can do what I want and sod off if you don't like it. Are only turning the people away from acceptance.

[ClosetED]

Magnetar GG - thank you for seeking an understanding when many hide. I think most of what you wrote is the same as my understanding, but trans is just a prefix. Transsexual is more accurate for what you defined. Transgender (TG) is a larger bucket. I think historical data estimate that 11% of the population has been homosexual over the centuries, so expect that same ratio in the larger TG bucket. Most CDers are heterosexual but some will be bi and some only want to be with a male. I know someone posted a nice graph of pink fog - how once freed from restrictions, a CDer will likely go overboard in activity, then settle down to their personal level of need. You, as the wife, likely have some control of the activity level and can moderate the spike. Most of the married people here are firm in what gender gets them sexually interested. Not to say that a hetero CDer would not mind the non-sexual attention of a man, but that is different than sexual attraction. I know of no book or show where a hetero crossdresser is kindly portrayed. Transsexuals are more vocal and the media pays them more attention, yet CDers are probably 5 times as common.
Labels are bad, but the brain needs them, so know their limits. Actions say a lot more.
Some CDers want to present as feminine, but society still limits men from presenting as they wish, so they may feel transition is the only solution that society allows them. You may be able to give your husband the level of feminine visibility desired, and reduce a desire to seek transition as a solution.
Again thank you for coming here to seek answers. When I asked my wife to come to the site to learn, she asked for a divorce (which did not happen). Now we are DADT / IDWTSI (I don't want to see it).
Hugs, Ellen

[Tina_gm]

And getting back to the topic..... If someone who CDs and does not care about passing, likes to wear the party girl/adult entertainment clothes, well that IS their choice. Nothing we can do about that. I am not going to condemn that, for the sake of doing so if that is what they do indeed like. I am only going to say that when dressed in this manner, any who do should not expect much respect from the general public. it is not going to advance the cause of acceptance. It is a more than subtle nod to the stereotype which we face. To continue to dress in that manner, despite the consequences which follow it, then so be it.

[StarrOfDelite]

I am not going to condemn that, for the sake of doing so if that is what they do indeed like. I am only going to say that when dressed in this manner, any who do should not expect much respect from the general public. it is not going to advance the cause of acceptance..

I don't think that the OP or people who share that mindset want respect from the general public. The bizarre costumes, body paints, and spiked hair-do's at Gay Parades are done precisely because the people who do it are telling the Straight World that they don't need their acceptance, and aren't going to come begging for it.

Minority communities in the United States often act provocatively in order to (figuratively) stick their finger in the eye of God. They are, effectively, telling the straight world to F.O., following a time honored American tradition of minority citizens telling the mainstream world that they don't care if the majority is disrespectful or oppressive it cannot break their will.

Their behavior may not be palatable to you, Jennifer, Becky, Natasha, Magnetar and her husband, or me, but it's legitimate use of free speech. Truthfully, I'm not sure which will advance the cause more, people trying to blend and not make waves which arguably is a tacit acceptance of the majority's opprobrium, or someone who brings it to the public eye in a challenging and thought provoking manner.

[Tina_gm]

Mostly agreed there star. I have seen a couple videos of gay pride parades, middle of the day, family friendly and oops.... oops for the parents of the kids who were suddenly watching sex acts. Yet in most areas that are gay or trans friendly, you hardly see that kind of stuff. In Provincetown, at least in the day time it is one of the most respectful, respectable areas I have ever seen. There is PDA, but does not stretch past any reasonable amount found in any other place. If anything, it is more respectable.

[StarrOfDelite]

Hey gendermutt, I've never been to a Gay Pride./GLBT Parade, although they have them annually in Pittsburgh. In fact, the Pride Week is from June 4 to June 12 this year. After posting all of this stuff on Crossdressers, I should attend, I suppose.

Anyone who reads my posts probably knows that I am one of the enthusiast bicyclists who lurk on the forum, and I must admit that I would absolutely love to to paint myself pink and ride in the naked bicycle tour in San Francisco, and the risk being outed well and finally forever be damned!

[Devi SM]

Without had read all the reply to this thread I think that passing shouldn't be the ideal of ala crossdressers.
We've read here that some just enjoy the texture of the wool on sweaters, others just the silk, or lingeries, etc.
But at the same time in the thread "how girly you do" almost all prefer all or nothing, so everybody wants to look and feel like a woman. That's my case, I'd like to look like a woman but I don't have the waist or the hips that a woman has, but not all women have nice rounded hips or smalls waist, so how lass able I could be, it depends on who is judging.
It's like aging, it's like nobody would like to get to 80 years old, and you can see old ladies that make up to look like 60's and the sixties dressing or make up like they were in their 40's.
Same old ladies stop using make up may be they give up and already assume their age, despite of the women that never make up, but my point is may be you don't want to look passable "now" because as you said that you just give up.
So the variety is big. I've seen some crossdresser that for me are pathetic, some of them openly say I'm not passable, but they enjoy it anyway, other don't even see they are not passable and they think they are passable, so I can't be categories of passable or not passable, it's just a personal thing how good we feel dressed as a woman.
I wouldn't like to be in the situation of being dressed and hook up a guy that thinks I'm a real woman and have to tell him I'm a man....so how far the pretending thing goes?

[AllisonS]

Personally I don't think having a name for your femme side makes it any more or less likely that you would seek to transition later on. Heck, I could create different personalities for myself depending on what I'm doing, name my goddess-in-the-kitchen Julia, my artiste Frida, and then when I'm wearing my jeans and a tshirt and helping my husband on a home-improvement project Bob.

A good friend showed me a picture on his phone and asked me if I knew who it was. It seemed familiar. Finally, I guessed, "Your sister?" He laughed. He said no, that's me. He was wearing a short brown wig, which I guess was supposed to look masculine. He said, "That's Chet Lester. When me and my wife are on vacation I sometimes become Chet Lester when we go to restaurants". I asked him who Chet Lester is. He said Chet Lester is a talk show host. The name of his show is "Other People's Business". At the restaurant they talk about other peoples business. People in the restaurant. People they know. Anyone. He said he started it because he was mocking her about being into other people's business. Now they just have fun with it. I came thissssss close to showing him my phone and asking, Do you know who this is? I decided to defer, because I was drinking (on Bourbon Street) and remembered I make stupid decisions when I drink.

[becky77]

And by goodness why is somebody calling out that it is wrong to have a fem name. There is s lot of things here that people don't understand and if you don't walk in their shoes, why tell somebody that a fem name is bad for a male CD, holy smokes.
.
I never said it was wrong?? I asked why and I only asked it of those who are vocal about having a male identity. It was a genuine question as I'm looking at how those who CD and DON'T want to be assumed as being TG or with wants to become a woman can highlight that element of the Cding community. Because currently the media thinks all who dress in public want to be women and I've seen enough members who don't like that because a) it's not true and b) it causes issues with their wives.
You say you are gender fluid so this isn't about you.


Truthfully, I'm not sure which will advance the cause more, people trying to blend and not make waves which arguably is a tacit acceptance of the majority's opprobrium, or someone who brings it to the public eye in a challenging and thought provoking manner.
That's what I wonder what does work best? I was only pondering that those who pass or blend become visibly TG or TS to the greater public rather than CD.
How does one show the world they are an everyday hetero man who happens to crossdress and that be accepted as ok.
I see the word weird/normal but things only become normal when they become a regular occurrence and CDing isn't a regular occurrence because it's secretive, secretive becomes creepy. How do you break that cycle of thought in a meaningful way?

[Jenniferathome]

"How do you break that cycle of thought in a meaningful way?"

One person at a time, one positive interaction at a time Becky.

[sometimes_miss]

Being in our own group would be fine; except, we get ridiculed for it, and women find crossdressed men to be a huge sexual turn off. So, I understand why so many who don't wish to transition, want to pass, and avoid so much of the problems that can occur when we're identified as ourselves, as crossdressers.

[Jenniferathome]

"women find crossdressed men to be a huge sexual turn off. So, I understand why so many who don't wish to transition"

Miss, those two things are not remotely related. A cross dresser does not want to transition because they are a cross dresser and not trans. Someone who is trans MIGHT transition. I write "might" because there is no guarantee that can do it (health, cost, family,...)

[michellechong]

I think to to able to pass is always a bonus for any crossdresser but transition is never in the mind of any typical crossdresser. Like what Jenniferathome brought up, even some transsexuals might not consider transition their option. As for myself, I started crossdressing since my primary school, had sex with men since 17. I was on hormones for almost a year when I was in my early twenties. I then had to quit (just short of 1 month of the mandatory 1 year) due to family and peer pressure when they found out my intention.

[Judith96a]

I'm not quite sure where I fit in all of this but to attempt to get back to what I think was the OP's point, if I imagined that there was the remotest possibility of an openly cross dressing male being more or less accepted within the bit of society that I frequent then I might very well "go for it". It might be fun to go to work one day in full 'male' attire and go the next day in full 'female' attire - just because I felt like it - and for that to be "acceptable". It's a nice fantasy and that's all that it is - a fantasy. It's not going to happen - not in my lifetime at least. Likewise, there is no way that, with my build, I'm going to "pass" at anything less than 100 yards range! So the best that I can hope for is to 'blend' sufficiently that most people (who aren't really looking anyway) will casually mistake me for a woman and that those who do 'sus' me are sufficiently relaxed to not make a big deal of it (ie not cause me physical harm). That's what I try to achieve - nothing more.