Coming out tomorrow

[Katya@]

So here is the deal. I have been wearing women clothes at home freely in the evening when kids are in bed. Ocassionally, I wore a skirt and my kids (both under 7) know it. My wife thinks it is time for me to fess up and come out to her parents who live in town, so they will learn it from me, not the kids at some point. It has been on my mind for many months how to do it. My in-laws are the best and I love them. However, my father-in-law on several occasions through remarks quite intolerant towards LGBT community at large. Today, he told me a story he read somewhere that was supposed to be funny about a father of a daughter who said he will make sure the next boy/men who walks into a bathroom behind his daughter, he (father) will make sure the boy/man won't need SRS any longer. I found it quite tasteless but didn't had time to respond as I was already living with my daughter. I chose this occasion as a reason to write a letter to confront him on thi belief and at the same time to come out so he could decide for himself am someonr like his son-in-law is a danger to girl like his daughter. I told them among other things thay I hope they will open their minds just like they opened their hearts for me. You know, I do believe that sometimes people start to think differently when they know closely someone who belongs to group of people they avoided at best and marginalized at worst.
Wish me good luck!

[AllisonS]

I would save the confrontation on issues until (much) after you are out with him. Not a good combo.

[Katya@]

Hi AllisonS,
Thanks for advice. It makes sense. I would only add that I tried to keep my email not confronational. I let my wife to read it too before I send it. Also, in 15 years, I never had a single conflict with them and I hope not to have one.

[Rachelakld]

Funny, I would tell him "I'm trans and anyone touching me will need an undertaker"

BTW, most sexual preverts are in the "Family unit" of the victum

[Teresa]

Katya,
I always try and see different sides to this sort of situation . We tend to treat people like in laws as whiter than white, but most of us have little secrets tucked away, some times contentious comments are said as a cover up.
All I'm saying is don't take up the challenge to write or say a reply it might open up something you know nothing about.

Think hard about being more open with your children they will have to live with that and it may not get easier for them as they get older, I remember my kids at that age, they sometimes have enough in their lives to deal with which can also get worse with age . It took a while to find my daughter was being bullied, coming out to her and her schoolmates finding out could have made the situation worse for her .

There's never a right time to come out, but do look at it from everyone's point of view and think hard about it .

[Katya@]

Hi Theresa,
Thank you for your honest opinion as always! I can't disagree with you on anything. But I do have few things that work in my favor here. We live in a very liberal town and both girls go to a small private school and daycare, we we have several open gay families (kids to same sex parents). So the overall environment is the positive one and risk of bullying is low. That may change when they move to public middle school at the age of 12-13, but by that point, they should have enough self confidence to deal with crap.

[bridget thronton]

Hope things go well your wife and daughters are great

[LaurenS]

Please keep us updated. Good luck.

As an aside, I try to remember that many if not most bigotry is unrealized ignorance, so from your description of the environment, there is a good chance everything goes well.

[Lori Kurtz]

... most bigotry is unrealized ignorance.

True. When I was growing up, I thought I didn't know any "homosexuals." And I think that was true of most people back in the 1950s--we all thought that homosexuality was a rare and far-away thing. The reason for that, of course, is that most gays were deeply closeted. Now, everybody knows that there are gays in their families and/or neighborhoods and/or workplaces. And everybody knows that gays are not as scary as the alarmist extremists would have us believe. I think that's the biggest factor in the changes in predominant social attitudes toward gays. Most of us are still in the closet, so it's easy for people to fear us and hate us, because they don't know us. I have nothing but respect and gratitude for those of us who have the courage to take a few steps out of the closet. Best of luck to you, Katya.

[Pat]

Sounds like the letter is sent, so what's done is done. I wouldn't get confrontational with him (it sounds like you didn't) but would use the event as the springboard into the topic. I've always regretted not doing that with a work colleague who gave me an aside about "those people" years ago. I've always wished I had, at the time, the fortitude to tell him "I AM one of those people." But in a way my dissatisfaction with my own response helped shape me and has led to me being where I am now, so it's all good. ;)

[Stephanie47]

Please let us know how it went. I've seen the rantings in the media from the top politicians down to the guy on the block. Most of the anti transgender comments seem to be based on ignorance. I've personally have had friends or total unknowns to me rail against gays, lesbians and transgender men and women. Sometimes it is possible to have a discussion with them...sometimes not. I would have tried to have a "discussion" with your father-in-law and not a "contentious debate." I always ask why the person feels so anti-gay, anti-transgender. Usually, I get some unfounded totally ignorant statement back.

As to your current situation I would have applied my lifelong concept, "risk vs reward." How one may be treated by friends and neighbors may be totally different than with close relatives. Friends, neighbors, acquaintances and coworkers may always be transient, while close relatives may be a lifelong contentious relationship.

Personally, I have a close friend (30+ years) who has been shunned by her father and a son and daughter-in-law because all she did was get remarried. It was nothing but religion. It destroyed not only the relationship with her father and son, but, also with grandchildren.

PS: While I was keyboarding, Melanie added her comment. Hopefully, the wife is willing to help bear any negative consequences of the revelation. Surely, the family dynamics will change, if just in a minimal manner.

[Katya@]

Sounds like the letter is sent, so what's done is done. I wouldn't get confrontational with him (it sounds like you didn't) but would use the event as the springboard into the topic.
So as I said last night, I actually let my wife to read the letter first just because I don't have any intentions to be confrontational with him. I am glad I did this. I read this morning the letter and it didn't sound the way I wanted it to be. And it was obvious for my wife as well. So I re-wrote the letter and it actually came out really well I think. I should post is somewhere with names redacted. It may be of use to others. I did use the event of a poor joke to springboard to the topic. In a sense, it worked out well. The idea of writing a letter (typed in word and converted to PDF and send via e-mail) came to my mind few days earlier, when I thought it may be easier to write it coherently, then have an outright conversation. So when the letter was done, I took few deep breaths, and hit the send button an hour ago. A few minutes later, I sent this letter to my only older brother who has been very open with me on everything. I always felt bad for not being the same. Partially, because my brother too would be quite confused on this topic to put it mildly. Let just say that he thinks people gays, cds, etc because they think it is just cool...:eek: So basically, I killed two birds at once. It felt still OK to not tell him as long as I don't tell anyone outside of my house. But as soon as I sent the letter to in-laws, I knew I had to tell him too. (P.S. I already received his reply and he said - "Don't sweat over this too much. I don't see a reason to worry about this.":hugs:


Why is your wife making you come out to her parents? What other personal information will she want you to share with her parents? Your wife sounds a bit controlling.
@MelanieAnne. We live in the same town with in-laws, and have very close relationship with them. Even though my kids saw me in skirt, it was only few times here and there. My wife's point was that if I want to crossdress on regular basis in front of the kids (not just like I do regularly when they go to bed) then she feels that (a) it is best for in-laws to hear this about myself from me first and (b) i may be putting a big burden of expecting them to keep this secret from grandparents. I personally didn't feel I put any burden on them, and I didn't ask them to keep it secret. I told only once my older daughter that this is something I prefer to keep private, and she gets it. But I agree that it may come up unintentionally, and it is better for me to control the story. We had this talk about 6-8 months ago. It took me a while to finally do it. Also, my wife sounds a bit controlling because she is. But, the marriage is a compromise. We already moved past the DADT to me dressing up at home when she is around and me buying my own clothes. She isn't thrilled but she tries to be rational about it and I am thankful for that. I don't want my marriage to fall apart so as long as my family is fine with it, I am fine with the



Please let us know how it went.
Will definitely do when I hear the reaction of in-laws. But then again, to me, my brother is the closest person in my life and he is cool! My wife and kids are cool. In-laws, will be simply a bonus" [/QUOTE]


Hopefully, the wife is willing to help bear any negative consequences of the revelation. Surely, the family dynamics will change, if just in a minimal manner.
Just before sending my e-mail, I checked again with my wife - are you still cool with me sending it to your parents? Her reaction was - "I see no risk for myself. It mostly affects you". She supports me and that is all that matters.




True. When I was growing up, I thought I didn't know any "homosexuals." And I think that was true of most people back in the 1950s--we all thought that homosexuality was a rare and far-away thing. The reason for that, of course, is that most gays were deeply closeted. Now, everybody knows that there are gays in their families and/or neighborhoods and/or workplaces. And everybody knows that gays are not as scary as the alarmist extremists would have us believe. I think that's the biggest factor in the changes in predominant social attitudes toward gays. Most of us are still in the closet, so it's easy for people to fear us and hate us, because they don't know us. I have nothing but respect and gratitude for those of us who have the courage to take a few steps out of the closet. Best of luck to you, Katya.

Lori Kurtz - this is exactly my feeling. I thought gays were weird back in a day, and then I learned that our friend is Bi. Then I met two same-sex parent couples in daycare, and they were great folks and parents. All this changed my perspective. It makes it more real. BTW, I don't put make up, (don't feel the desire I had a decade ago), so when I walk my dog at night, in a skirt, and tank top, I am just a dude in a skirt. I do challenge others albeit not much because I am still building confidence for it, and so far have only done it during my 11PM or later walk, when I seldom see a car or a person. I am kind of saddened that I haven't seen a dude in a skirt in our liberal town yet, with or without make up. I am sure we have got to have some but so sad everyone is closeted.

[Katya@]

OK, I read your reply. And your first mistake is wanting to dress in front of your kids on a regular basis. I'm outta here.
You really didn't have to reply after passing a judgement on me. It actually came out rude.The point is not about me "wanting" to dress in front of the kids. I want to be able to dress when I think it is appropriate. I don't want to hide it and live in constant state of paranoia of being caught by kids as if i am doing something morally wrong. Ultimately, the time will tell if it is a mistake but as is, my family is supportive and happy.

[jenniferinsf]

in defense of melanieanne whose response was brusque, my personal feelings is that it puts an unnecessary and additional burden on the children who are likely trying to fit and make friends.

my grown childre know about me and have had only a little difficulty with my transition, but in MHO it is a different story with younger kids

[Pat]

My experience with young kids (many years as a leader of a youth organization for 5 to 11 year-olds) is that what's normal is what happens around them. If Dad wears a skirt and Mom doesn't seem to care, then it's normal. Later they might get other input from their friends but I don't think they're especially burdened by being exposed to it as long as there's no pressure to be secretive about it, which means Dad has to be willing to face the fallout. It only becomes a burden if you're trying to hide and make them co-conspiritors. It doesn't sound like that's the case.

I'd also point out all we know about this we know from what's written here. We don't have enough information to get all judgmental. We have to trust that people make the best decisions for themselves, even if they're not the same decisions we'd make for our selves.

[AllieSF]

Everything that we do puts some type of burden on kids as they grow up and eventually mature. Each of us has been influenced by things that our parents did and did not do. That becomes real obvious when you get into deeper conversations with people about how each of our own upbringing influenced how we see, interact and react to the world around us. As for if, when and how to tell one's own kids, I believe that really is up to the parents. I was raised in a loving family where nothing of substance was ever talked about, from finances, to family issues, to sex, whatever. I grew up slightly behind some of my contemporaries understanding of what was actually happening around me, with me in complete and happy oblivion. Is that good or bad? That to me actually is a very good question. It was definitely good in the sense that I tended to focus on what I wanted, my goals and activities and much less on that of others needs and wants and troubles. I was a relatively happy kid and who basically ignored the world around me. It helped me get to where I am today, but I sometimes wonder if I would have been better if I paid more attention to things where I and me were not involved.

Kids benefit from open and honest family surroundings. They learn more about the real world, other's issues and the true diversity that surrounds us all. They also learn when things are held back. They may not know what is happening, but many times the truth comes out later and they realize that so much was going on that they should have known. Things that could have helped them better understand other things and ideas in their later life.

I think that it is better to do so earlier rather than later. Kids are more resilient and intelligent than we sometimes give them credit for. I believe that most kids can handle this burden if delivered properly and then supported morally and emotionally over time. If the parents are at odds over the whole trans situation in the family, the children could get very mixed messages as they try to understand what is happening.

It is obvious from all the posts made here, that we all have very different communication skills and understanding of what and why we do what we do. Some people have a gift for words, whether written or spoken. Some can think quickly on the go, while others struggle to be understood. Unfortunately, we tend to marry someone that we are attracted to and who clicks with our own personality, with very little thought about how well each of us communicates with the other, how honest and open we are and how direct or indirect we are when telling someone something important. Another key factor is that we are not born smart, we learn over time and some learn quicker and better than others.

So, just like telling the wife/SO that one is trans (umbrella term) all of the above comes into play. An interesting thought is that as many here say, the SO deserves to know, what about the children? Is our way of communicating these important and delicate subjects the one and only way?

[Katya@]

Hi gals,

It was late when I received a written reply from in-laws tonight. I was checking my inbox all day today waiting for a possible reply and I got it.
I won't go into all details but will say that overal tone was kind and good as they thanked me for opening up to them and my father-in-law even apologized for inadvertently hurting my feelings with that quite bad joke. I will see them in person as early as tomorrow or weekend and dynamics may change a bit but I don't expect it will be much. Overal - response from both brother and in-laws was acceptance. Big burden of my shoulders. I was thinking about this since last year. So it is a relief. Who knows, I may have changed minds of few people as a result of this as well as an added bonus; )
Hugs,

Katya@

[Teresa]

Katya,
It's good the responses have gone well, probably better than you thought.

Please don't forget there's a big difference between being out to people round you and actually being seen dressed. All my family know about me but I don't consider being 100% out because they haven't seen me. That's a big hurdle, I wouldn't want to look like a man in a dress so it would be wig and makeup as well , you really have to know they fully understand why you crossdress.

[ChristinaK]

Katya,

I'm so glad this has worked out so well for you and I admire your courage. Good luck in the future.

[Pat]

Awesome! I'm glad the in-laws rose to the occasion. :)

[Katya@]

Katya,
Please don't forget there's a big difference between being out to people round you and actually being seen dressed.
@Teresa - certainly. For once, I know that I won't be comfortable and won't enjoy it as a result to be dressed around them intentionally despite their acceptance (at least verbal). My objective here was that it is not going to be a secret. I don't want to hide away things, worry that my kids will tell a secret to grandparents, or if I happen to be in a skirt in the evening, and the make an unannounced visit, I won't rush as a criminal to the other end of the house changing back to drab (happened once already).

@all - Thank you all for your support and encouragement. I am so grateful for this site and people here. It has been absolutely invaluable resource for me to come to where I am. I have been here for almost 3 years on/off, and most of the 2 years, mostly reading, reading, and reading. No matter what thoughts and feelings you had, someone else had them too. No support group or psychologist can provide the support on a level this site does.
Hugs, :hugs:
Katya@

[ReineD]

You know, I do believe that sometimes people start to think differently when they know closely someone who belongs to group of people they avoided at best and marginalized at worst.

Yes, this is often the case.

Congratulations!

[Lori Kurtz]

If you are transgender, or planning to transition, then your friends and family need to be prepared, or given a heads up. I get that. But if you are heterosexual, and just a crossdresser for the turn on, and someone knows about it, why do they have to see you? ... If you are heterosexual, then crossdressing is a part of your sex life, and I fail to see why anyone needs to know about it.

There are a lot of variations on why people with male bodies dress up in women's clothes. You have mentioned only two of those: transgender M-to-F people, and men who crossdress as a sexual act. I know a lot about the latter--crossdressing was always a sexual turn-on for me--even when I was too young to know what a sexual turn-on was. And I felt just as you do about coming out of the closet as a crossdresser--my sex acts were not for everyone to know about. But I also know that there are other men for whom crossdressing has other meanings and motivations. I won't try to speak for them.

So come on, girls, you who are neither TS nor fetishistic or autogynephilic crossdressers, help enlighten us a bit more about the diversity of our community.

[lingerieLiz]

I guess I must be one of the others. When I started it was not a sexual thing nor is it today. I'm heterosexual, have always been interested in girls/women and not men. I was thinking about it yesterday when I saw a woman's top I liked. It was how I wanted to look. There were men's clothes and they held no interest for me. It is as if I was imprinted with the desire to look feminine, but I don't have any desire to be one physically. Ironically I have fem features and been teased about them as "the guy with the boobs" or you'd make a pretty girl. In my youth I passed easily, but didn't desire a sex change. Making it with a guy held no interest.

[Nikki.]

there's tons of self description posts out there where cd's started out with or had fetish aspects and as time progresses the sexual part of it diminished or went away entirely. when I started I was too young for it to be sexual, in my late teens through thirties there was a fetish component but there was more gender stuff going on and now there's pretty much no fetish aspect. I've concluded the root driver is gender identity cross wiring. I don't believe fetish cd'ing and gender variance are always mutually exclusive. my guess is more often than not they are entertwined.

[flatlander_48]

So come on, girls, you who are neither TS nor fetishistic or autogynephilic crossdressers, help enlighten us a bit more about the diversity of our community.

I identify as bisexual and transgender, but I have no plans to transition. Whatever degree of dysphoria that I have is not enough to warrant transition.

When I started dressing, I had very little of the shame and guilt that people talk about. Basically you could measure it in minutes, and not many at that. I felt very comfortable in the clothes; like I had tapped into some other life. It wasn't that I was being pushed away from the masculine. Rather, I was being pulled towards the feminine. Further, it never felt like a different persona. That's not how it works for me. It is really one persona with mostly male, but definitely some female, traits.

Our LGBT employee affinity group has had a Fall community entertainment event for the past 12-13 years. For the last 6 we've brought in comedians from the LGBT community. We've had Suzanne Westenhoefer (2x), Alec Mapa from Ugly Betty, Marga Gomez, regional favorites The Calamari Sisters and last October our first transgender performer, Ian Harvie from Transparent. That inspired me to volunteer to do the MC function as DeeAnn. Corning, NY is about 12,000 people. As my son grew up there, I realized that I needed to come out to him (age 34). Even though he had not lived in Corning for some time, he still knew people here in town and you never know who would show up for the event. I came out to my daughter (age 40) a couple of weeks later. She has never really lived in Corning as she started college shortly after we moved. I wasn't worried about her hearing the news from someone else, but since I told her brother, it didn't seem right not to tell her. So, DeeAnn appeared in from of ~130 people. I also did 2 presentations about transgenderism where I wasn't dressed, but presented a photo. All totaled, 200+ people now know about DeeAnn. There is a thread with the whole story. It is a thread started by me with Ian Harvie in the Title.

So, there is the question of Why. As you age, your thoughts and priorities change. I was 67 last December and frankly, the older I got, the less I seemed to care. It also seemed important to me to present the message that everyone who identifies as transgender is not looking to transition. There was some discussion earlier about putting a face on things. That was also a consideration for me. And last, but not least, I knew that I was going to retire a few months later and move from New York State to California. Sort of a Perfect Storm, in a way.

DeeAnn

[Claudia D]

Congratulations on letting your in-laws and family know! :)


I'm just a guy who likes to wear "women's" clothes. I don't want to transition or have sex with men. My thought is that there should not be different sides of the store for
different genders. If you like it wear it!

I went to see "Me Before You" and just fell in love with the main female characters clothes and impractical shoes!!


There are a lot of variations on why people with male bodies dress up in women's clothes. You have mentioned only two of those: transgender M-to-F people, and men who crossdress as a sexual act. I know a lot about the latter--crossdressing was always a sexual turn-on for me--even when I was too young to know what a sexual turn-on was. And I felt just as you do about coming out of the closet as a crossdresser--my sex acts were not for everyone to know about. But I also know that there are other men for whom crossdressing has other meanings and motivations. I won't try to speak for them.

So come on, girls, you who are neither TS nor fetishistic or autogynephilic crossdressers, help enlighten us a bit more about the diversity of our community.

[Stephanie47]

Glad it went well for you. The only word of caution I would offer is to keep it toned down around the kids. I've seen men on the street wearing plaid skirts that are NOT kilts. The rest of their clothing is totally male. No makeup. No wig. No boobs. I think it would become rather confusing to young kids to see their father "dressed to the nines."

[Katya@]

when I started I was too young for it to be sexual, in my late teens through thirties there was a fetish component but there was more gender stuff going on and now there's pretty much no fetish aspect. I've concluded the root driver is gender identity cross wiring. .

This is exactly me!


I've seen men on the street wearing plaid skirts that are NOT kilts. The rest of their clothing is totally male. No makeup. No wig. No boobs. I think it would become rather confusing to young kids to see their father "dressed to the nines."

This is me too! One exception - I started growing my hair almost two years ago. Long hair, no wig - simple.

Maybe because I don't transform in front of my kids / wife, it is a non-event.

- - - Updated - - -


Here's the part I don't get. If you are transgender, or planning to transition, then your friends and family need to be prepared, or given a heads up. I get that. But if you are heterosexual, and just a crossdresser for the turn on, and someone knows about it, why do they have to see you? Why do you have to come out to anyone? If you are heterosexual, then crossdressing is a part of your sex life, and I fail to see why anyone needs to know about it. You wouldn't gather the family or your friends together to discuss some other aspect of your sex life, so why discuss crossdressing with anyone?

First of all. I thought you are "outta here" in your own words. Second of all, if you don't get something, maybe you shouldn't pass judgment on me saying that I made mistake. It is obvious that you look at crossdressing via very narrow window, It is NOT a sexual fetish for everyone else outside of those who feel the need to transition. It is not sexual for me either, and I have 0 desire to transition. All it does, it helps me to balance my inner me with the way I see myself in the mirror. And I don't need wig, boobs. and makeup for that. I can't believe you have not read hundreds of posts / replies from people here like me.

[LaurenS]

MelanieAnn, your comments leave many readers the impression that society norms don't change, and that acceptance of someone wanting to express themselves will never happen - indeed is even dangerous and/or damaging.

Do I have that correct?