Are we the "T"

[SeanErin]

I have been struggling with the labels. Am I TG? Guess so, the pink isn't lumberjack mode. But made out with my wife crazy last night. She knows, bought me some manties. Just a bit lost...

[kryss.cd]

I'm not sure at all. I often wonder this myself.

[Pat]

Do you believe that a cis-gender male would do the things you do? If not, yes, you're the T. Many different people under the transgender umbrella from transsexuals to gender non-conforming, but all of them find a need to access a place that doesn't exist in cisgender males. So think you're "just" a fetish dresser? You're T. "Just" a crossdresser? T again. Full on TS? Admittedly they seem to have no problem understanding they're transgender but it's worth noting they are.Transgender carries no implications (or responsibilities or duties or whatever) beyond "not-cisgender."

[Anneliese]

Agreed. We are/I am T.

[Alexa CD]

It's a pretty big generalization but yeah, I think so, kind of.

[Kate Simmons]

Take "T" and see. :heehee::)

[docrobbysherry]

I often wonder if I am a T? But, as far as definitions go, Jennie summed it up perfectly! :thumbsup:

In any case, your sexual orientation has little or nothing to do with being T.

[stlmichelle]

I like T.

[Tracii G]

Gender and sexuality are two different things SeanErin maybe that is why you are lost.
Just because you are a straight male that likes to dress as a female does not make you gay or have anything to do with what you prefer sexually.
Lots of people don't seem to grasp that concept.

[Meghan4now]

Sooooooo...... if your also a statistician, does that mean you should take the student T test to be sure your part of the population?

[ThereseW]

Sooooooo...... if your also a statistician, does that mean you should take the student T test to be sure your part of the population?

Haha Meghan4now, my kind of humor! Stats rule. And yes, T seems like a big tent. Much confusion stems from LGBTQ, of which LGB are really about sexual preference while T is about gender identity. Q crept into the acronym and I'm not really sure what that is all about. So I am T!

[Pat]

if your also a statistician, does that mean you should take the student T test to be sure your part of the population?

Depends. If you're from Chicago and conservative does that mean you should take the Chi Square test?

[Meghan4now]

Well how confident do you want to be? Little known fact, the Student T test came from William Gosset, a chemist at the Guinness brewery in 1908. Another reason to raise a pint!

[prabha]

Aaaaaa kjjkkkkkk.

[Bobbi46]

When I first came out to close friend we discussed in great depth the meaning LGBTQ and my lesbian friend explained that the Q referred to everything else whereas T I am led to understand is for trans sexual which not all of us are but those that are not T must fall into Q?
Am I right or wrong on this?

[ReineD]

Much confusion stems from LGBTQ, of which LGB are really about sexual preference while T is about gender identity.

Not necessarily. Although there are some Ts who are transsexual and other Ts who identify outside of the gender binary (neither male nor female but some combination of both), some Ts (many non-fetish crossdressers and most fetish dressers for example) still identify male. And among this group of people, some can be hetero, some gay, and some bi. Just because a man enjoys dressing up doesn't mean he is gender variant.

[Pat]

When I first came out to close friend we discussed in great depth the meaning LGBTQ and my lesbian friend explained that the Q referred to everything else whereas T I am led to understand is for trans sexual which not all of us are but those that are not T must fall into Q?

The T has a long history. My recollection of the early days is that T was generally translated as "transsexual" but I don't believe "transgender" was a word back then. As people tried to refine their identities T was generally translated as "transgender" which included all transsexuals as well as the other gender variants.

Once you start adding letters it's hard to stop. I have seen LGBTTIQAA bandied about and there are even more lengthy variants -- I'll bet Google could turn up quite a few more. I believe the current fad of trying to split LGB from T is not doing anyone any favors and it ignores the history of the alliance which was based neither on sexual preference nor on gender identity but was to promote the common safety.

[Richelle423]

Yes I know I am "T" and I'm not talking about testosterone! Lol

[desertrider]

Since Q came up, it made me think that when i originally encountered it, i took it to be a generic for G/L. I think that definition works for a lot of people,but I've been feeling lately there's more of a demographic or group association, or self-identification component to it (and possibly a touch of style =). For instance, i don't think of our homosexual politicians or a lot of banker types as Q at all in most cases, and on the other end, my L friend recently described me as "Q as f", even though I identified as hetero (for all practical purposes) for a long time. (So repressed though, now I think I was afraid to claim the B my whole life for fear people would think I was G, and it turns out I was T+Q all along. I acted very hetero. I still knew about the B, but I didn't think about it or act on it cause I was too scared to identify with the QT inside on the outside). I'm of the younger end of the age range that didn't have any out lgbt people in high school. Now it's a non-issue with my daughter and all her friends.

[ChristinaK]

You people make my head hurt! Who cares? Do we NEED a label?

I think that there are many of us that dress as a sexual fetish. Is that CD? Are they secretly TG? Only the person involved knows how they feel and can identify in one catagory or another.

Some of us start out with a fetish, then realize it's always been more than that. Some of us are totally hetero, some bi, some gay. Sounds like society in general to me.

If a person says they're CD, fine. If they say they're TG, fine. If they're TS, fine. And, we are allowed to cross from one category to another.

I cannot judge what a person identifies with as I don't live in their brain. Explore, experience and make a decision for that day. We all change over time.

[Georgette_USA]

From friends I believe the Q comes from "Gender Queer". Can't remember what all the other letters come. Just Google search on LGBTQ and you will find the others.

a person who does not subscribe to conventional gender distinctions but identifies with neither, both, or a combination of male and female genders.
"a younger generation of self-proclaimed genderqueers explicitly reject ‘transgender’ as an identifier"

It is possible to be multiple parts of the LGBT. I am primarily a Lesbian with BI tendencies. And reluctantly also classed by some still a TS or TG, even thou I always identify as a woman.

[Lynn Marie]

"Are we the "T"?" I am.

[Mayo]

Sooooooo...... if your also a statistician, does that mean you should take the student T test to be sure your part of the population?
If you were a GG, you'd have AN OVA.

(Though, in a sense, sperm are MAN OVAs.)

I'm clearly regressing. I'll go away now... :o

[Fiona123]

I am a straight crossdresser. I sort of prefer the label transgender. So I am "T". Although I have had fantasies of being with men (see my posts on other threads), I am straight, not Q.

I once googled "Am I transgender?" One site had only one word on it: "Yes". It seems to me if you ask if you are TG, you probably are. Making out with your wife is not inconsistent with being TG, but it was no doubt great fun. Relax & explore your TG side. 🌺

[ClosetED]

To my understanding, yes.
T I thought was for transgender, but that is large bucket. LGB is about sexual orientation but T is not and does not even mean gender identity as all the heterosexual CDers here may feel. Is your identity how you think about yourself(my thoughts) or how you present (alternate view).
I thought Q was for Questioning - those who were not sure about their gender identity - i.e. Gender fluid
I thought A was for Asexual - for those who did not feel that had any gender, but I have also seen it as Allies - friends of those who are LGBTQ

Ellen

[Pat]

I think that there are many of us that dress as a sexual fetish.

I think "fetish" is a distractor. If you crossdress in a sexual situation, unless there's something really kinky going on, it is with your consent. If you are a male who would consent to dress in female clothes there's some gender issue in play and you end up under the TG umbrella. So transvestic fetishists belong with us, they're just uncomfortable dealing with their gender issue outside of a sexual setting. (My opinion, of course, not law.)

[Brenda456]

This is interesting and sooooo complicated.

[Robin414]

Interesting post, my last visit (a while ago) with my GT she collected some LGBT literature for me and I thought, I'm not LGB...but...I guess...I am T...she smiled and said 'Yep!"

Labels!

"A transgender by any other name would still dress as well!" - Shakesquear

Ya, it's about self acceptance...and being able to chuckle once in a while 😠

[Fiona123]

I think the sexual aspect of being a TG or CD is very closely intertwined with the gender identity aspect. It's ok to crossdress and be transgendered and it's ok to be aroused at the same time. It's equally ok to use crossdressing as a path to arousal without being TG. 🌺

[Meghan4now]

Ok, my jokes aside. Dog gone it, WE ARE T! Unless you are a supportive SO, or a troll or a kid here on a joke. If you are here more than once, if you adopt gender non-conforming dress, attitude or mannerisms. If your biology does not entirely match your gender identity, even if it only a once in a while thing. You are T by the current understanding.

Saddest thing this week, there has been more traction on all the negative group devisive threads and posts, and almost nothing on positive meaningful conversation.

We are the T in LBGT like it or not. We've got a whole week, no a whole month. Stop cowering in the bathroom stall, get out, be positive and live your life!!!!!!

[samantha rogers]

Years ago I had a conversation with my therapist that pertains to this. I was, at that time, just coming to terms with all this and wondered aloud about the possibility of it being a "midlife crisis". She looked at me and said "Look, most guys having a midlife crisis buy a sports car or start an affair. They don't start dressing as a woman and taking hormones." End of conversation. LOL
But, just to keep definitions clear, I believe, according to commonly accepted definitions and according to the rules of this site, that "transgender" is a blanket term covering all of us from occasional fetish dressers to fully transitioned TS. I believe, and I may be wrong, that the Q comes into play with those whose everyday presentation and identity falls consistently as neither male nor female but rather as some variant in between. I know a lot of young people in my local community who definitely fall into this category, appearing in distinctly androgynous mode at all times. And as someone who rejects the traditional male/female binary, I love all those who happily cross boundaries and present in any gender or combination or blend of genders they prefer. Variety makes life soooo much less boring. lol
But, personally, not caring for labels much at all, I am quite happy with the term transgender as a vague identifier for all who fall in anyway outside of traditional gender norms in any way.

[Jane G]

Personally I prefer wine. However I do enjoy the T in my life very much too.

[Mayo]

Part of the confusion arises because 'transgender' is used as shorthand for those members of a broad category (those under the 'trans umbrella', see below) who specifically identify as a gender other than that which they were designated at birth and who express that gender full-time, often (but not always) with the aid of hormones and/or surgical procedures.

If you search 'transgender umbrella' you'll find a number of different diagrams, some of which include or exclude CDs, some of which include or exclude drag queens, some of which include or exclude intersex people. My point is that there's still no universal agreement on who properly falls under that umbrella and who doesn't. If you take the broadest definition, though, where 'transgender' means, more or less, 'anybody who blurs, crosses or contravenes traditional gender lines in identity or expression' then CDs, drag queens and intersex people are all included. Like LGBTQ in general, T is a melting pot in which not everybody has the same expression, motivation, or identity, but they all share something that goes against the strict binary.

It then becomes, I guess, a 'matter of opinion' as to who's who, based on whether or not your particular understanding of the trans umbrella includes or excludes certain groups.

As a non-binary-ish individual who often wears clothing of the gender I was not assigned at birth, I personally identify as T in the broad sense but not in the narrower, 'shorthand' sense mentioned above. In reference to another currently active thread (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?240652-Male-Entitlement-to-Women-s-Spaces), I don't consider myself female, I don't attend groups that are designated 'women and trans', and I would not enter a designated 'womens space'.

[Pat]

Part of the confusion arises because 'transgender' is used as shorthand for those members of a broad category (those under the 'trans umbrella', see below) who specifically identify as a gender other than that which they were designated at birth and who express that gender full-time, often (but not always) with the aid of hormones and/or surgical procedures.

You seem to be saying that people confound transgender with transsexual. It's true. It's an observed and documented problem. The presumption is that some people are too squeamish about the word "sex" being in the word "transsexual" (or else they're just unsure if it should be spelt with two s's and so opt for the easier to spell word.) The transsexuals of my acquaintance understand the problem and make no claim to the sole use of the word transgender. I tend to be pretty loosey-goosey about letting people describe themselves, but I'm really cranky about word definitions because if the definition of words becomes fluid, then the ability to communicate is lost. I would argue strongly for a very simple definition of transgender as being the opposite of cisgender and having no other implications or requirements beyond that.

Drag queens: in my experience some are transgender some are not. The class itself doesn't belong under transgender though some of the members of that class are also members of the transgender class.

Intersex is trickier but mostly because intersex is about sex not gender, so putting them under transgender is sort of non-sequitur -- you can't say if their gender is different than their sex assigned at birth because we foolishly don't admit to a sex that's actually a fit for them and we have no idea what cisgender would mean for them. The only way to shoehorn them into transgender is if you say they don't fit the gender expectations of a sex they aren't. They need more study, research (and sympathy.)

As usual, my opinion; not law. ;)

[Mayo]

You seem to be saying that people confound transgender with transsexual.
Yes, exactly. This exactly illustrates the unavoidable fluidity of language, whether one likes it or not. :D In many places (not here, obviously) the word 'transgender' is used instead of 'transsexual' because the latter refers to 'sex' rather than 'gender' and is a reminder of the term's medical/pathological background. I agree that 'transgender' is the opposite of 'cisgender' and so includes, basically, everyone who is not cis. Drag queens are therefore included. Intersex people are also included because the gender they are assigned at birth is an arbitrary decision to shoehorn them into one of the binary categories even though their genitalia are (by definition) intermediate.