Why are married men afraid to communicate with thier wives?

[Imeni]

I've been around for a few years now, lurking and reading different threads. Some nice, some not so much. And one thing I've noticed is that there are all these men here who will straight out either lie to their wives or simply not talk with them about their cross dressing.

Whats up with that?

I'll give the older members here the benefit of the doubt as things weren't really an easy place to even start to have this talk with wives back in the day without serious issues but even in the past ten years, how many of you guys have had the chance to actually sit your ladies down and just tell them? I'm thirty. And I've been doing this so far back that its nothing that i can hide or even want to. Dating is a challenge as in my mind, I don't think anyone would WANT to date a cross dresser so i don't really put myself out there. But when I do end up dating, you bet your panty covered ass that I tell them. With a few questions around the topics of LGBT and the trans community on the whole, I can gauge whether or not they would be cool with it and I'll end it because of it. Not just for my end of it but if you can't be even open to the idea that trans people can use the bathroom, we sure as hell ain't going to date. No thank you.

But with all that said and done, you guys are married. Not dating, not just friends who live together. But married. You are sharing your life with someone, but many of you here are straight up afraid of your wives. Let's not forget the one thing we all have in common, GG's aside. We're men. Under all the dresses, panties and wigs, we're men. While yes, its important to take the considerations of your wife into play about how to proceed, you owe it to them to be honest, you owe it to your marriage and your vows that you said to each other not to lie, and most importantly, you, as men, should be man enough to live the way you want to live without fear of what they would say.

I mean, if you are going to come out, do it with class, style and don't just broadside her, especially if you think that she might seriously leave. Make sure your ducks are together, people. Brains. We all got em. But for heavens sake, stop being afraid of being truthful with the women in your lives. They loved all of you when they married you. And for some of us, that includes cross dressing.

[stlmichelle]

Good question, I try to be as open an honost with my wife. She is very accepting with me, that being said despite her open acceptance with me I still find myself hiding from her. I guess it boils down to I still have such a deep ingrained shame of this aspect of me that I still can't fully accept myself. She tells me she loves me regardless of my feminine side, I guess I need to love my feminine side more as well.

[Tracii G]

I don't get it either Imeni.
There will be a bunch comment on this I'm sure and over half of the big strong men here are too scared to put their foot down and tell their wives "hey I deserve to be happy too".
You will see all kinds of excuses get posted but it boils down to their lack of a back bone.
I noticed this right after I joined here and it has baffled me ever since.

[Georgia_Maine]

Native American/First Nations proverb: Great Spirit, help me never to judge another until I have walked in his moccasins.

[Judy-Somthing]

I tried coming out to the wife a few times about thirty years ago and she thought it was Ft-up so I didn't push the issue.
Five months ago I told her I'd like to put on a dress, she freaked and didn't talk to me for three days and over the next two months made unpleasant remarks about cross-dressers.
So I'm not going to push the issue!

I think If I told her I cross-dress quite often, I'm pretty sure we would end up with separate bedrooms and it would be a real Bummer!

[Brynna M]

It's easy to sit in the cheep seats and say everyone should have to courage to come out and talk this forum is full of stories that make those conversations hard and some spouses are more difficult to talk to...
So try these ideas on if you don't understand why talking to your wife is harder for some than others.

Some of us don't want to lose some one who we love very much and have good relations ships in other parts of our lives.

Divorce is rarely kind to men particularly those who pursue anything society deems "not normal" not matter how harmless the pursuit.

Some of use simply don't know how to navigate our wife's feelings.

Some made mistakes and married not nice people.

Some spouses change over time and become someone we can't talk to.

There are some reasons. It would be great if life were fair and everyone were at least tolerant and patient enough to talk about things. But some people aren't, and may not even be bad people in other aspects, and those people get married too.

[andreanna]

Agree with you to every point

[marlacd]

I was married 23 years, and will be divorced 5 years next month. In a word, no, dressing didn't sit well with her.

She was quite a closed mouth person. She didn't want to talk about my dressing. She waffled quite a bit about it. She went from being accepting, to not at all, and back again. I never knew where I stood. Turned out, she had a load of mental issues I knew nothing about. When she said she wanted out, I decided to let her. She got just too difficult to live with and keep happy.

Communicating with my wife was a real challenge. At first we did fine. But as the years progressed, I was supposed to give all, and she was supposed to be on the receiving end. It was so stressful for me that, after one month of being away from her, I was thrilled that she was gone.

I wanted to talk about it, but she wouldn't listen.

[Magnetar GG]

From a GG's perspective:
Mine told me right around the time he started getting into dressing. The interest had always been there, but he'd very rarely acted upon it, and didn't want to tell me until he knew where he was with it. OK, I can understand that. I DID tell him that I wished I had known before we got married and had a child. He asked if I would've left him. I said I honestly don't know, but I would've been able to make the decision about whether or not it was something I could live with. It wasn't the answer he wanted to hear, but I was honest. There's no way of knowing what my feelings would've been before we had a binding legal document, a mortgage, and a child to parent together, but he could've at least given me the benefit of the doubt and let me think about it. It's not just his life it affects, it's mine too. Now I have to deal with the added stress of keeping a secret I never wanted in the first place, and no friends to relate to about it (other than the forum - but I found it, not him, and it was because I wanted to figure out a way to deal with this). I said by not telling me until after, had it been the case that he knew ahead of time, he put me in a difficult situation, one where if I DID want to leave would make both our lives a living hell. Lucky for him, I stick to my promises, including the vow of loving him til death do us part. Even if it means he likes to dress up in women's clothing. You can see my point though, right? How can I make a promise like that if I don't know someone completely?
My answer would be that the guys who have been doing this for years, even before they got married, and then tell their spouses that "hey, I've essentially been keeping this giant secret about myself from you and lead you on believing I was a typical dude and got you to marry the illusion of me. So I thought now after 10-20 years I'd come clean, and you should accept me for who I am." Most are going to be like Um. WTF???
YOU LIED TO ME ABOUT THIS ALL THIS TIME?
WHAT ELSE HAVE YOU LIED TO ME ABOUT?
Because at that point it's not just about the CDing, which is a huge shock in and of itself. The GG also comes to the realization that he's been so good at lying and hiding something like this from her, he could've very well been cheating on her, or doing other things behind her back, when the worst she might have done is hide those slightly-too-expensive-for-their-budget shoes or bag or whatever and then come back and say "oh, this? I've had it for years, just never used it" betting on the fact that you're clueless about fashion and don't know it's a new release or design. Little do they know...
It's not just CD. It's trust. TRUST has been seriously broken.
So I'll agree with you, if you're dating, don't lie about it, don't hide it, and certainly don't propose to her without letting her know EVERYTHING about you so she can make an informed decision.
The guys who have been hiding it and continue to... realize that she's going to be pissed off about a whole lot more than just your wearing a dress. There's always the likelyhood she'll find out anyway, or might suspect, or the guilt of lying to your spouse eventually weighs so heavily on you that you end up confessing. Don't blame it all on the GGs for reacting the way they do.

[Tracii G]

Brynna I have been married twice and was that kind of man so I do know what I am talking about.
I suffered just to keep the peace in the family and it made my life a living hell.
Nothing I wanted was even considered it was always them that got everything they wanted because I didn't have the stones to stand up to them.
Both told me it was my fault for always giving in and trying to be the understanding husband.
Both told me after the split a woman wants a man that will stand up to her and say no and even hell no sometimes.
I had lived a life of being a pure a hole and a mean violent person and wanted to change but I found the change I had made as far as my personal life and relationships was the wrong choice.
Thats part of the reason I have no sexual desire for them. They hurt me and used me so that will never happen again.
The choice is yours be a man and stand up for yourself or be a wussy and let your wife tell you what you can and cannot do.

[Alice Torn]

I am never married, and have told the women i have talked, to or considered dating, and they ALL say it is wrong, and i must quit. The same reason i don't tell minister or more than a few people in the church i went to. Some folks will not even try to understand this thing. Every woman is different, and most do not like it. Tracii, I am pretty much where you are at with relationships, and I am no longer even considering marriage now. I no longer have sexual desire for them any more. I am asexual now, as I have been non respected , in the ashes for a long time, and i see the price of losing all respect from them, i am no longer willing to pay. Perhaps a lady from another nation or culture, that is respectful, has a different spirit, maybe. I walk alone.

[docrobbysherry]

I have to add to what Brynna and Tracii posted.

Many married couples end up being roommates. Because divorce is so devistating and expensive.

I made the same mistake as Tracii. I let crap go because I didn't want to fite about every little thing. But, my therapist pointed out my that resentment towrad her kept building because of it. By the time I finally stopped taking it, it was too late.

Rather than live together with rrsentment and hostility as roommates, I chose to move out. Many others don't!

[TheHiddenMe]

Because men fear the answer may not be one they like.

And fear isn't necessarily rational. People fear sharks, but there are only about 6 deaths from sharks a year. The deadliest "animal" for humans is the mosquito, but for us in the non-3rd world they are more annoying than fearful.

Not disclosing kicks the can down the road. It doesn't mean it's right, but it's a pain avoidance technique for many men.

Also, for many men, there is a shame involved with crossdressing. They don't want to admit it to themselves, much less anyone else.

Yes, men owe it to their partners to disclose their crossdressing, but fear is a big impediment.

[Jacqueline1965]

I was very lucky. When I met my wife in college back in 1987 I told her almost right away. She seemed open minded and she reacted by buying me lingerie from a local boutique. We have been together since '87 and married since 1994 and this has never been an issue. She lets me wear whatever I want whenever I want. Did say that I was a lucky guy?

[lingerieLiz]

Magnetar has several points that I understand. Marriage is a commitment and needs truth before not afterwards. After a few dates I told my wife. I didn't want her to get into something that she couldn't accept. On the other hand she was under the misconception that she could change me. This was back in the day that no one understood crossdressing. What I would say today is, there are no excuses for not telling before you are married or in a monogamous relationship. You may feel love, but she is not aware of who you are. Think about it, what would you feel if suddenly she told you of something that was devastating to you after you were married.

Rule 1, You must be truthful about your idiosyncrasies!!!

[Sarah Louise]

Because of the fear of the consequences. If you've grown up all your life knowing that most people think what you are doing is weird and wrong, then many will find telling very difficult.

For me, I had given up dressing well before I met my wife. I believed that it was something I'd grown out of. More than 20 years later the desire to dress came back. But I was now married with teenage kids. Do I tell and risk my marriage splitting up, my CDing getting known to my friends and work colleagues, perhaps being hounded out of work, losing my home and income. A little extreme, I know, but those were the kind of thoughts I had before telling my wife. Although I had read many positive stories on here where telling one's wife had gone well, I had also read some where it hadn't.

In the end, I couldn't stand the thought of lying for the rest of my life, but it took me 1.5 years to pluck up the courage to tell. Fortunately, after the initial upset, it went well.

[PaulaQ]

They fear reactions like this from their wives:
Out (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?192909-Out&p=3160603&viewfull=1#post3160603)

This is a thread from three years ago about coming out to my (now) ex-wife. You can read *any* of the threads where I talk about my relationship with her after the reveal. It hasn't gone well, and that is putting it mildly. Three hears later, and she still calls me by my birth name when she'll speak to me at all, and she still lashes out at me, and does things that frankly jeopardize both of our financial futures.

Now there are many marriages, especially involving CDs, that can survive coming out. I see plenty of them. But seeing some of the bad ones gives one pause. By the way, despite the unfortunate state of relations between me and my ex, my breakup is by no means the worst I know of. Nevertheless, I'm the person they send people to talk to locally if it looks like someone is going to go through a BAD breakup post coming out.

Despite all that, I really do recommend coming out. A relationship that can't handle you being true to yourself is not worth saving, quite frankly, as sad and hard as that is. And believe me, I know how bitter that can be.

[Eryn]

Going back 5+ years I still remember the reason vividly. I was scared to death that I would destroy a 20-year marriage with something that I was barely starting to understand myself. I hadn't dressed during our marriage, but the interest was there and I kept stuffing it back into the recesses of my mind every time it tried to get out.

My own view at that time was that CDing was wrong and perverted and I hated myself for having those feelings. I came here, discovered that there were others like me, did some realistic research and discovered that CDing was not only acceptable, but not all that uncommon. Still, how do I explain this to a woman who doesn't feel what I was feeling?

So we sat down and talked. She could have been like the women who are in love with the idea of what they want their husband to be and decided to bail out. Luckily, she was actually in love with me as a person and decided to accompany me for the ride. Over the last five years our relationship has grown closer as my attitude improved and I've become a much nicer person with whom to live.

[Molly James]

My story is pretty much word for word what Sarah has posted this morning - I hadn't dressed for about 30 years when I met my wife nor did I think about it. The thoughts & urge only returned after we married which I attribute to being surrounded by lingerie. The shame & confusion was still there BUT now there was information on the Internet that told me I wasn't some oddball one in a billion which has helped me accept this side of me although I still can't explain the why bit to myself which in turn made explaining it to my wife (& her accepting it) so difficult. The subject generally remains off-limits these days & there's an uncomfortable silence whenever anything Transgender appears on the telly which is fairly often but we love each other & that in itself is something for me to be very grateful for having come out to her. I agree with the honesty part of this discussion but find it ironic when CDs are being told to man-up bearing in mind they are trying to learn to deal with their femme side.

[sometimes_miss]

Is this a trick question?

I don't think anyone would WANT to date a cross dresser so i don't really put myself out there.
You answered it yourself. We don't have any other option. I've had ads on the big dating sites that mention crossdressing, and all I get are responses from men and prostitutes.

And for some of us, that includes cross dressing.
and for most of us, NOT.


So. Why don't we tell AFTER the marriage. Easy. Because there are lots of women who become furious about it, feel they've been lied to, that we're 'not the man they married', are quite upset that they no longer have a 'strong, stable, reliable man' to lean on whenever they want. Then they take out their anger as well as those insecurities on us. It often results in divorce, sometimes restraining orders and blackmail as retaliation for not living up to the standards that they expected. We can go on, but I think that is sufficient as a starter. You can read all the horror stories about how wives have dumped their husbands after the guy came out to them by skimming through the threads on this forum. And it didn't start here. This type of behavior has been going on for, well, forever. That's why so many men don't tell. We can't change who we are, and there simply aren't enough crossdressing friendly women to go around. So we give it up, and hope it's all behind us. When we find out it isn't, it's already too late. So we try to keep it under control, hoping she'll never find out. .

Does that answer your question?

Edit. Before we go down the long arguments about how it's such a big horrible lie, lets remember that everyone lies. EVERYONE. Anyone who says they never told a lie is full of s**t. It all depends on what the lie is. We tell people what we think they need to know. Crossdressing is said by wives to be a lie of omission; that they had the right to know. Yet, many women keep things to themselves too, because they feel that WE don't need to know. And when that topic comes up, we get, 'Oh, that's different'. The problem is that we can't know what the other person thinks is important. Especially here, where the 'pink fog' slowly makes us think that we're perfectly normal just like everyone else, so crossdressing is no big deal.

But it is. It's a HUGE deal. We just forgot just how big a deal it is.
Over 90% of people don't want anything to do with us; they don't want to know us, work with us, meet us, or deal with us in any way. They'd prefer that we didn't exist (we wont go into those who actively wish we were dead, or even the ones who actively want to kill us for no reason other than we offend their delicate sensibilities). About 6% of women say they think it's ok for men to crossdress, but don't want to know them personally. Down to 3% who would be willing to socialize with us. Then half that again, and you had 1.5% who 'might' date one of us. When discussing this with my therapist, she said that about half of the women who initially thought they could accept a man who crossdresses, later changed their minds. That leaves about 0.75% as a potential dating pool. Of all women. And that's in America.

When women marry us, they expect certain things. They want a provider, a protector, a father for their kids, and when we come out to them as a fem crossdresser, they question whether we could ever be that, and then the sexual attraction starts to be questioned as well. When that's gone, the marriage is done, and you're basically just roommates. If she's still young enough to be interested in sex, her sexual desires will gradually be pointed in the direction of a 'real man', not the guy in a dress.

Yes, there are some happy endings. You'll find some here. But in general, women aren't turned on by a guy in a dress; in most cases, they're definitely turned off. And once they're turned off by a guy, attraction isn't likely coming back. Out of the 20,000+ members here, how many wives like crossdressing? A tiny fraction. Some will tolerate it. But most won't.

[Lacey New]

Did you ever hear the phrase "It's cheaper to keep her"? And all of the earlier responses are right on target as well. Some women can deal with , support and even enjoy a crossdressing partner. But I would say they are a rare minority. Most women are less than thrilled.

[sometimes_miss]

Most women are less than thrilled.
Now that's an understatement if I ever heard one!

[Magnetar GG]

There's a huge difference between acceptance and enjoying CDing.
When he came out to me, was I thrilled? No.
Do I enjoy it? Nope. Not really.
Am I attracted to it? No... I'm quite hetero, no sexual attraction to women, even men dressed as one.
Do I accept it? Yes. I want him to be happy. I accept him for who he is.
So let's first try to get past that wife being ecstatic to see you in a dress. You might be luckier spotting a unicorn.

And like some of you, he discovered CDing well into our relationship. It wasn't something he did prior. But at least he told me when he started getting into it. Does he still hide it? Yes. I can understand that though, we didn't have an easy start with it, and sometimes he just wants to do his thing without getting a comment from me. I've learned to be okay with that, honestly don't mind not having to deal with the shock/heart sinking feeling when I do see it and I'm not mentally prepared for it. I have to mentally prepare for it every time. It's like what I'd imagine being tasered. If you've been tasered once, you know what it's like, but it doesn't mean you're going to be ready to be tasered at any given moment after that. It might be easier if I know it's coming (even if it's still a shock).

If you choose/chose to marry someone who is closed-minded when it comes to LGBT issues, she is not going to accept it. If she's the kind of person who thinks you can cure homosexuality or that it's a choice, she's not going to accept it. If she is scared about the bathroom laws, no, she's not going to accept it. I'd even go as far as saying if she's religious, most of them aren't going to be very accepting (there's the whole sin and guilt and asking forgiveness aspect to that). Note that I said most, as there are many out there who are religious and still fight for equality. If she watches a documentary or news clip about trans kids and her first thing is "oh, those poor parents" and "you know, they shouldn't accept that, it's because of a lack of discipline and poor parenting" then she's not going to accept CDing.

If she has a level head on her shoulders and knows that there is a lot more to a relationship than whether or not you like to put on a dress, your marriage will likely survive, as long as you treat her right and can stick out the initial roughness of it. There's more to it than that, even if she's open minded and accepting and understanding, which I'll try to explain.

Was it easy when my husband first came out? NO

I'm going to go in to a bit of detail now all the things that went through my head when I was first dealing with it.
Did we fight a lot? YES. Quite a bit. Sometimes it got real nasty. He felt betrayed. I felt betrayed. It took nearly three years and a period of him going DADT for me to finally wrap my head around the whole thing.
Why? It wasn't really about the dressing. It was that the dressing took off with him. It's that dmn pink fog some of you get into. It was me saying okay when he first told me he was interested in exploring it, then trying to deal with the initial shock, because my first exposure was him in FULL dress, and no matter how open minded you think you are, seeing your husband completely dressed up, wig, makeup, breastforms, hose, shoes, clothes, the works is a LOT to take in. And then he disappeared for half a year. We had a baby to care for. If you have kids, you know your wife goes through a period of low self-esteem after becoming a mom, seeing her body changed, destroyed even. She may or may not even suffer from PPD, something most won't care to admit. I did, I didn't admit it to him. So here I am with a baby, I feel gross and anything but sexy, and now my husband was completely engrossed in his femme self. I thought I did something wrong. I thought maybe he didn't feel attracted to me anymore because I was a mother. (Look up the madonna-***** complex - I was seriously thinking my husband had that.) So now I'm gross, I have a baby I care for 24/7, housekeeping, and not one word about me being beautiful. No interest in me in the bedroom unless he's dressed, like he was making up for the fact that I was gross and unattractive. Just like many of you go through this whole thing of shame and guilt and self-consciousness, women do too. But it's ALL the time. We're constantly picking ourselves apart. He's dressing up as his perfect idealized form of a female, all the things he finds sexy, and to me it was just another way to rub it in all the ways I'm not. It hurt. It really really really hurt. No amount of "sometimes you need to focus on me too" and "don't you care what I'm into?" didn't matter. There was no give and take. It was just him doing his thing and to hell with my feelings or whether or not it affected my self-esteem. CDing is a very selfish thing. It just involves you and your femme, and what you want and this fight because you deserve to be happy. But is your wife happy?

If she's not in a good place, if she's not happy, if she has low self-esteem, if she's suffering from depression, if she never hears she's beautiful, that she turns you on, that she's sexy, that she's amazing - if you just reserve that for Valentines day, her birthday and your wedding anniversary (and in my case I don't even hear it then, I have to ASK), CDing to her is just going to be another way of you showing her that she is inadequate. She's not woman enough for you which is why you've found another woman (your femme) to replace her. Meanwhile you are worried you're not man enough for her. It's not talked about. There's not a whole lot of information out there available to the public about it. And any conversation you two try to have turns into a big fight, with at least one if not both of you crying, because you're both now having to deal with the deepest, darkest feelings that you both work so hard to suppress on a daily basis and are desperately needing understanding from each other, but both are so caught up in unmet needs that nobody's listening. And then when she needs you to tell her you love her, that you're attracted to her, that the reason you dress is maybe because you admire her so much that you want to BE like her, because to you she's perfect and to you being just a man isn't good enough... you don't tell her. Instead you disappear into your pink fog and become consumed with your obsession, likely taking some of her clothes in the process. (PS. a big big big no. don't do it without asking permission, and by permission I mean ask for specific things you can borrow.) She feels unloved, abandoned and even worse about herself than she did before.

You know when I finally became okay with it? When I found my self-esteem. CDing stopped being a threat when I found my self-worth. I'm pretty sure most of the accepting GGs on here will tell you the same, that it all comes down to your self-worth, self-acceptance, self-love, self-esteem. If your wife doesn't have that when you tell her, aside from having her trust broken, you've inadvertently just told her that she's not woman-enough for you. You need more. She isn't going to take your CD as a compliment. And while I would LOVE to hear my husband tell me I look good, or that he noticed when I dressed a little nicer than usual, or my hair looks great, or that I'm sexy, or I turn him on... anything, really, I don't get it from him. It took a long time to realize that I am responsible for my own happiness and self-worth and self-esteem. Most women still depend on their spouses for that bit of reassurance. Especially after having kids. Or a long day. Or when she's going through menopause, or she's having a hard time with something. She needs to hear that from the man she married, that he's not bored with her after being together for so long. Heaven forbid she catches you looking at other women (you know you do, even if the reasons why you do are different than why she thinks you do).

I can tell you though, if you're planning on transitioning and not just CDing, unless she's Bi or REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY loves you unconditionally (like a saint) and would sacrifice her needs for yours, it's not going to work out. I'm willing to bet most of you have hetero wives who have no interest in being married to a woman. CDing is a much easier pill to swallow than a full transition. If my husband told me he wanted to transition, that he no longer identifies as male, I would explain to him that I will support him as a friend, but I did not choose to marry a woman and have no desire to spend the rest of my life married to one. I would kindly request that he supports me in my needs as well as we go our separate ways.

[DutchCarla]

Manliness. Yes, you have to be a real man, any time, any place. All else is evil.
Getting married. Then all that nonsense will go away, of course.
Life would be so much easier if that wierd hobby wouldn't be there, so it MUSTgo away.

It seems like I may live in a tolerant, feminized society (the Netherlands), but all of the above still applies. And boy (!), it sits really deep. Quite a long time after I've told my wife I kept asking her what she thinks of "it". She laughs and says that is seems mostly my problem instead of hers.

"Oh, your appartment is so nice, furniture, silverware, the lots" (visiting ladies, including my now wife).
"Oh, you have such a great husband, he seems to love to go clothing shopping with you and has good style, knows what looks good on you" (sales ladies).

So my wife thinks I'm still the great guy she loves and has married, plus. She doesn't really matter seeing me dressed, but max. once a week (nightgowns and panties don't count :-) ) and no kissing when dressed: she is not a lesbian as she puts it.
Very occasionaly she buys me lingery and even a dress once.

All in all I'm a lucky guy-girl.

Oh, and that pink fog: sometimes it tears me apart when I'm walking past a store window and I just can't walk in and try on that dress, buy it and walk out of the store dressed in that new purchase. All that is left is go online and catch up with dozens of years of finally being able to buy female clothes, developing a style and so on. It is not just replacing that pair of pants or buying that new dress for a party, it is much more.

[sandyb40c]

For me it was fear of rejection. We have been married over 25 years and I didn't tell her when I met her because I naively thought that once we got married my impulse to dress would diminish. I also grew up in a very religious family that I had to hide my dressing from. I went through times where I managed to resist the urge, but I was a miserable person to live with (so I've been told). I became good at hiding things and that became the norm. There were lots of guilty purges over the years, but it kept on coming back.

I recently turned fifty and decided that enough was enough. For a little while my wife had been joking about the fact that I needed to stop pulling on the band of her panties in bed and that if I didn't she'd buy me my own to play with. I said promises promises and challenged her to get me some. One day out shopping I texted her not to forget to buy my underwear. When we met up she mumbled something about not seeing my size. The next night in bed I asked her if she really couldn't find panties in that style in my size and she said it had all been a bit of fun and that she hadn't really intended to. I saw this as an opportunity to star talking about my crossdressing. I told her I was a little sad that she had only been joking and that we should really talk some time. She said lets just talk now then and for the next couple of hours I laid out my whole life of deception from her. It was a difficult time, but as I went on I found it easier to share.

She was quiet as she processed things and said that whatever made me happy made her happy. She was relieved that I wasn't having an affair and she also asked if I was gay or not. I told her that she was the only person for me and that I thought she'd reject me. She laughed and said that I'm stuck with her (which is pretty awesome!) and that it would take a lot more than that for her to want to be out of my life. I asked her if she was OK with me wearing panties 24/7 and she has no problem with that. She doesn't want to see me dressed at this point and would prefer if I washed my own things as well. She doesn't want to shop for clothes with me, but wants to know when I do. She hasn't ruled out any of this, but it's still early days for her.

I am so relieved and wonder why I didn't tell her sooner. The time was right and I am a happier person. We have had a lot of conversations over the past few weeks, some around whether I need to tell anyone else and what to say, if anything, to our teenage children. I have also arranged to see a counselor to talk about what it means for me to be transgender, as this is who I have been all my life and I have never talked to anyone about it until now. Thankfully I now have no desire to purge and my wife is teaching me not to be guilty, as she says there is nothing to be ashamed of. I knew I was married to a wonderful person, but I'm only now discovering the total extent of this.

[Dana44]

One thing I want to point out is that communication is the most important thing and some may not have that skill. On some of our ones that are accepting, we had to do a lot of communication and come to an understanding. Also, when we dress to go out , my SO dresses up too and I make sure she knows that she is beautiful. We are men and to think we are more feminine than them is a bit much and there should be no pink fog that does not allow you to communicate and love your wife. I feel sorry for some of the gg's here who don't get that communication and have brought themselves up. It speaks more for them. They are truly great women. I agree that we should not have fear and on the flight through life, I had so so many relationships and many beautiful women. But in a way I am more happy now with the SO that I have. But in any relationship you must tell her that she is the most important person in your life and appreciate her feminine ways. Then she might be able to help you.

[ClosetED]

Falling in love is one of the best, but short term, ways to suppress the desire to crossdress. So with society, in the past and still to a strong degree, shaming crossdressers (or why would a SO be 'shocked' at finding out about it [other than Trust issue]?
So a man finds a woman to love, and the desire to dress goes away. Without knowing it would return, he thinks he is 'cured' and does not see a need to tell her. Then they marry, start a family, the woman's interest may change to the child and away from the husband, and so the desire returns. Now you have the situation where he is afraid to tell her, afraid what this means to his own control, to the child, etc.
If society changed to not care what kind of clothes humans wore or how they decorated themselves, then wives wouldn't be shocked and this website would not exist.
My wife knew 2 years into the marriage (now almost at 27 years). She went along with buying minor items a few times a year for bedroom use, but then stopped 6 yrs ago and I held out for 18 months before the pink fog overtook me and she told me to do what I had to a leave her out of it. I did not want to hide it from her, but it was her request, so I did. I experimented and went to makeup and wigs and made my dream come true, one she did not share. So I was honest in my deception, as it was only done at her request. When she found out how far it had gone, she was upset, but was it only my fault?
Hugs, Ellen

[avant1465]

I told my SO that I dressed almost immediately upon our meeting. (We met through a matching site)..... She said she was OK with that (C/D-ing) ... and wanted us to continue seeing one-another. It's been 4 and 1/2 years, now... and I couldn't have prescribed a better S/O...... My C/D-ing is part of who I - and WE - are. It's confined to "between us"... and we are both OK with that..... I consider myself extremely lucky to have met her.....

[Stephanie47]

Well, Imeni, thank you for giving us old folks "the benefit of the doubt" when it comes to revealing or outing ourselves to our wives. I read your comments and went back and read some of your older postings. I gave you "the benefit of the doubt" when it comes to figuring us out. I just chalked it up to your "youthful inexperience" or really your lack of experience. Your thirty and unmarried which in my book makes you "wet behind the ears." Until you have "walked a mile in our heels" you really cannot judge anyone.

I'm sure if you read all the comments above mine and numerous other threads on this issue, you got the picture why and how this "deceitful" action comes about. I will make one thing very clear. Unless you have walked the walk, you are in no way or manner able to judge others. As a child of the 1950's and 1960's there is a minimal difference in how society accept or rejects cross dressing men. All one has to do is follow on the ongoing rants and ravings against men wearing women's clothing using the ladies' room. I really do not expect any man to raise his hand and wave, "Hey, that's me!"

As to the "backbone" comments further down from your post, it really seems to be one sided. There's two ways to look at it. The guy has no backbone because his wife does not accept cross dressing and she prevails. Or, the wife has a backbone and will not put up with cross dressing. So, one spouse should rule over the other? The admirable thing to do is to divorce, once or twice or as many times as it takes to find an accepting wife who will not change her mind in the course of a marriage. Two things can happen in a marriage with both spouses having a "backbone." They will either compromise or they will divorce. Or they should divorce. I've said it many times on this site. If you and your wife cannot get along it is better that they divorce. I've seen many marriages, where the wife has no backbone, and routinely succumbs to the dictates of her husband. I've read on this site many post over the years. "Just do it." Sit around the house in your femme clothes and makeup. If she does not like it, tell her to stuff it or leave. Frankly, I'm happy to be married to a wife who has a backbone.

Frankly, you're doing the best thing for yourself. However, I wonder how much you are willing to compromise.

[Pumped]

When I look back I dabbled in cross dressing years ago, but never thought anything about it. It lasted a short time and it was done. Years later my wife found a pair of panties and we had the "talk". By this time I had a fair assortment of undies and shoes. I confessed all and my wife said it goes or she goes. I love the gal dearly and other than the dressing we get along great so I hide it and life goes on.what happens when she finds my stash? I don't know, I guess I will deal with it then. She does ask me if I miss it and I tell her do and wish she would allow me to dress but the look of disgust and the firm no makes it clear that it will not happen.

[Jenniferathome]

... And one thing I've noticed is that there are all these men here who will straight out either lie to their wives or simply not talk with them about their cross dressing....

Excuses are easily made when one is humiliated and shamed. That was me. Of course, there is the early denial that it will go away. And it does for many, for a time. When we know it is not going away, the excuse making starts. The classic is, "I don't want to hurt my wife." And to that, one can only laugh. It is very hard to admit cowardice.

[Teresa]

Imeni,
If only it was as easy as your comment , communication works both ways you can only sit someone down an ask them to listen if they really want to.

Before I married I had two GFs who accepted my CDing, being naive I thought most women would go along with it, so when I married there wasn't any feeling of guilt or shame or I was lying to my wife. From the start our marriage was so full, it didn't really crop up, it was just in the background for me. It carried on like that gradually building up inside until I felt I was trapped in solitary confinement, so after twenty years of marriage I came out to her. Our marriage didn't end but it wasn't a good time and I began to slide into a situation where I nearly ended my life. For the last twenty years it has been a DADT situation , after counselling and finally sitting down and talking we have managed a working relationship, i go out socially once a month and dress at home when my wife is out.

Being afraid of communicating is the wrong way of looking at it, after all these years I finally realised that you need to get to know yourself and where you are on the TG road, find a way of being comfortable with it and try and be as considerate as you can to your wife and family. They will communicate with you when they need to, you can't force the issues. I accept I live a compromised lifestyle, I can't live without CDing and I can't live without my family.

I appreciate you are thirty and OK with your situation , just imagine being twice that age before your life may be blown apart, there's far more to be afraid of then !

[rachel1985]

I've been around for a few years now, lurking and reading different threads. Some nice, some not so much. And one thing I've noticed is that there are all these men here who will straight out either lie to their wives or simply not talk with them about their cross dressing.

Whats up with that?

I'll give the older members here the benefit of the doubt as things weren't really an easy place to even start to have this talk with wives back in the day without serious issues but even in the past ten years, how many of you guys have had the chance to actually sit your ladies down and just tell them? I'm thirty. And I've been doing this so far back that its nothing that i can hide or even want to. Dating is a challenge as in my mind, I don't think anyone would WANT to date a cross dresser so i don't really put myself out there. But when I do end up dating, you bet your panty covered ass that I tell them. With a few questions around the topics of LGBT and the trans community on the whole, I can gauge whether or not they would be cool with it and I'll end it because of it. Not just for my end of it but if you can't be even open to the idea that trans people can use the bathroom, we sure as hell ain't going to date. No thank you.

But with all that said and done, you guys are married. Not dating, not just friends who live together. But married. You are sharing your life with someone, but many of you here are straight up afraid of your wives. Let's not forget the one thing we all have in common, GG's aside. We're men. Under all the dresses, panties and wigs, we're men. While yes, its important to take the considerations of your wife into play about how to proceed, you owe it to them to be honest, you owe it to your marriage and your vows that you said to each other not to lie, and most importantly, you, as men, should be man enough to live the way you want to live without fear of what they would say.

I mean, if you are going to come out, do it with class, style and don't just broadside her, especially if you think that she might seriously leave. Make sure your ducks are together, people. Brains. We all got em. But for heavens sake, stop being afraid of being truthful with the women in your lives. They loved all of you when they married you. And for some of us, that includes cross dressing.

It's a very interesting question. One I can't really answer as I'm not married. However, not long into my last relationship, I explained to my partner that I'm TG, and she embraced it.
She saw my clothes, and offered to support me through transitioning, however I'm too scared to.

I also have some girl friends who've said they'd support me, help me dress, do my makeup (never my strongpoint) and look more femme.
I know I could rely on them through transitioning also, but still too scared to.

As for the wives, as you say, they're your best friend, partner in crime, and your significant other. Tell them who you are, be it a dresser, TS/TG etc. If anything, most will embrace it too! It's the 21st century!

[Alice Torn]

Conservative religious women will not accept it, period.

[stlmichelle]

I did tell my wife when we were still dating, it was because of stories like this that I felt she needed to know.

[nothingclever]

My ex and I weren't married, but given my experience, if anyone is considering telling their SO, I'd hope they were absolutely prepared for ANY reaction....I think it's hard to trust anyone with a secret especially one that is uncommon and has a lot of stigma attached. It's scary to put yourself out there when you've been hiding for so long....I understand why some women don't like it, I honestly don't think I would have even considered dating my ex if I had met him dressed....I fell in love with him before I fell in love with her. I did enjoy his dressing, but I get that's not typical. It would be safe to assume there would be a negative reaction and that is probably why a lot of guys would have trouble communicating to their wives about their CDing....

[Mylie Taylor]

I can understand how early in a relationship it can be pushed to the back burner, then as time goes on the fear of rejection and keeping a secret builds guilt, shame and major anxiety. But I'm amazed at the courage of so many finally talking to their SO about it, especially in the face of all the consequences of a marriage ending. What I find totally unacceptable is (not quoting anyone in this thread) "slid on the wife's panties while she was out shopping". Ewww and go buy your own damn clothes if you're going to do it.

[marlacd]

I think Magnetar explained it very well.

Mine expected me to be in the strong male mode all of the time. Prior to me getting married, I had thought about dressing up, but didn't for about 16 years. Once I got married, I didn't at all. What got me started on the road back, was that my wife started to let her looks slip. Her putting on 50 pounds made her less sexually desirable to me. What really yanked the lid off, was that she decided that red hair was her color. Since I disliked all redheads, she fell into that slot also. How could I tell her that she was pretty, when I didn't think so?.

It got worse when she started to be more demanding of my time. And whatever I did that she didn't like, put me in the wrong. I guess, if I'm wrong, then I might as well be really wrong by dressing, because it made me happy.

Now I have read that women, to a point, want to be told what to do. I can see that. But then, if the woman wants equal rights, then isn't that contrary to being told what to do?

I don't believe that I have had the opportunity to meet a woman that didn't have some sort of self esteem issues. Since most overweight women do have image problems, and eat to comfort themselves, then I'd say, better than half of the women in my area have a pretty poor view of themselves.

I'll go along with the idea that women aren't sexually excited about a man in a dress, or aroused by a man in lingerie. But to me, a woman in pants and a tee, and no makeup, or buck naked in bed, doesn't stimulate me at all.

[Dana44]

Marla, I agreed with all you said, except, a woman in bed buck naked in bed, yikes I would not pass that up.

[Dinky39]

I agree with everything Magnetar has said in both of her posts. The only thing that annoys me now after all the lies and bs,I've only seen him dressed once. I have no problem with him under dressing when he wants or going the whole hog every so often but it's all gone quiet. After all that drama and this is what happens! But I am exactly the same as Magnetar,if he wanted to transition,I'd support him...as a friend,not a wife.

[Andrea2656]

From a GG's perspective:
YOU LIED TO ME ABOUT THIS ALL THIS TIME?
WHAT ELSE HAVE YOU LIED TO ME ABOUT?
...
Don't blame it all on the GGs for reacting the way they do.

Magnetar you are exactly right. I am older than fell into that group where I was fearful that there would be no understanding of my CDing. I love my wife and did not want to hurt her. For some time now she has know about my CDing. The response has been as Marla commented ranging from acceptance to being less tolerant and "I just don't understand". However, I will admit it was a problem of my own creation. The question still lingers "What else are you lying to me about?". Honestly, some of my secrecy regarding my purchases and dressing (which are within my budget) is because I am never sure where on the acceptance spectrum she is. I understand that this needs to be a continued discussion but sometimes it is simply too difficult to have.

[Teresa]

Andrea,
The comment I will make about Magnestar's statement is that goes both ways !

We may be accused of lying, somehow it appears to be expected of men , but women aren't whiter than white ! There are things that maybe my wife should have told me in the past and still are some , but we usually have to bite our tongues and give them the benefit of the doubt !

[ClosetED]

Quote Originally Posted by Magnetar GG
From a GG's perspective:
YOU LIED TO ME ABOUT THIS ALL THIS TIME?
WHAT ELSE HAVE YOU LIED TO ME ABOUT?
...
One flip side of this that I felt:
You said you loved ME - now you say you only love the masculine aspects of me.
You lied to me - what else have you lied about?

I felt my wife fell in love with my caring, gentle, romantic, calm personality - and that owes itself to many 'feminine' qualities that I as a person brought to the relationship. Do I turn those off and be a nasty macho brute?
That is just a fake a person as an imagined full time feminine life she is scared of.
Most of us do not want to transition or spend 24/7 en-femme, so stop worrying about that.
Ellen

And I have seen way too many naked people on the examining table/stretcher - no turn on. An evident desire for me is the biggest turn-on, but I do like my wife to set the mood with lingerie I buy her and perfume I buy her.

[ReineD]

I've been around for a few years now, lurking and reading different threads. Some nice, some not so much. And one thing I've noticed is that there are all these men here who will straight out either lie to their wives or simply not talk with them about their cross dressing.

Whats up with that?

It boils down to fear of loss. Fear of losing something considered essential to one's well-being:


Fear of losing a relationship and being alone.
Fear of financial loss due to a divorce.
Fear of losing relationships with children should there be a divorce.
Fear of losing someone’s good opinion of you, whether this is a spouse, girlfriend, parents, siblings, adult children, friends.
Fear that telling a spouse will result in others knowing and losing their good opinion of you, or you will lose your job, or lose friends.


A big fear not mentioned here, for those of you who have been dressing for awhile and still not told your wives?


Fear of losing your freedom. If a wife doesn’t know, she’s not on the look-out and you are more free to dress. If she does know and is not thrilled about it, knowing you are causing her angst when you dress diminishes your enjoyment of it. This also affects your freedom to dress and have fun with it.




It wasn't really about the dressing. It was that the dressing took off with him. It's that dmn pink fog some of you get into. It was me saying okay when he first told me he was interested in exploring it, then trying to deal with the initial shock, because my first exposure was him in FULL dress, and no matter how open minded you think you are, seeing your husband completely dressed up, wig, makeup, breastforms, hose, shoes, clothes, the works is a LOT to take in. And then he disappeared for half a year. We had a baby to care for. If you have kids, you know your wife goes through a period of low self-esteem after becoming a mom, seeing her body changed, destroyed even. She may or may not even suffer from PPD, something most won't care to admit. I did, I didn't admit it to him. So here I am with a baby, I feel gross and anything but sexy, and now my husband was completely engrossed in his femme self. I thought I did something wrong. I thought maybe he didn't feel attracted to me anymore because I was a mother. (Look up the madonna-***** complex - I was seriously thinking my husband had that.) So now I'm gross, I have a baby I care for 24/7, housekeeping, and not one word about me being beautiful. No interest in me in the bedroom unless he's dressed, like he was making up for the fact that I was gross and unattractive. Just like many of you go through this whole thing of shame and guilt and self-consciousness, women do too. But it's ALL the time. We're constantly picking ourselves apart. He's dressing up as his perfect idealized form of a female, all the things he finds sexy, and to me it was just another way to rub it in all the ways I'm not. It hurt. It really really really hurt. No amount of "sometimes you need to focus on me too" and "don't you care what I'm into?" didn't matter. There was no give and take. It was just him doing his thing and to hell with my feelings or whether or not it affected my self-esteem. CDing is a very selfish thing. It just involves you and your femme, and what you want and this fight because you deserve to be happy. But is your wife happy?

:hugs: :hugs: :hugs:

[Tina_gm]

It is so easy to fall into the trap of not telling someone. Right at 1st, you just want things to go well, so why risk putting the breaks on? Then as things progress, you want to keep them progressing, so it becomes hard to tell her this. then marriage, kids and life in general start happening. We likely think with all this going on the CDing will abate, and sometimes does for years maybe. But then it comes back, or hasn't left but we were so busy with our lives. Now it's been years, maybe decades. And maybe we just really like our life in general. We have seen our wives reactions to gay guys, dressers. They might be somewhat open minded, might even have a giryl gay guy friend at work or where ever. But still, the little giggles, the small ways in which she considers them to be less than desirable, or comical, or whatever. And now WE have to consider whether to admit to something we know she basically doesn't think highly of. The longer the secret goes on, the harder it gets.

It isn't even just admitting to our dressing, but fessing up to a lie, a real big one that is basically not just a thing that did or didn't happen once or however many times, but a lie of our very existence of who we actually are. That by the way is often times as hard if not harder for wives and other S/O's to get past, the big lie.

Looking back, so many of us will think, I should have told her from the start, or at least not waited so long. After all, we ARE still together, and since we still are after years, or decades of not knowing, the likely hood of her handling it far better early on would be quite a bit higher.

- - - Updated - - -


Quote Originally Posted by Magnetar GG
From a GG's perspective:
YOU LIED TO ME ABOUT THIS ALL THIS TIME?
WHAT ELSE HAVE YOU LIED TO ME ABOUT?
...
One flip side of this that I felt:
You said you loved ME - now you say you only love the masculine aspects of me.
You lied to me - what else have you lied about?

This is something so few CDers ever understand, although I think I am able to better than many-

I see many CDers be not happy when their wives are not handling the CDing well, and feel put off that their wife is only in love with a part of them. But what those who feel this way fail to understand IMO- is that that is what YOU presented of yourself. For a wife to be in love with only the part you presented, and faked it as the whole of you, you only have yourself to blame. Don't think that when we lie about our very core being of who we really are, that any person should just shake it off like no big deal because true love should be unconditional.

As for the lie and what other lies we might be telling- well, again, if WE are capable of lying about our very core being, we are basically capable of lying about anything. So it does take quite a long time to rebuild that trust.

[Jenniferathome]

Quote Originally Posted by Magnetar GG
From a GG's perspective:
YOU LIED TO ME ABOUT THIS ALL THIS TIME?
WHAT ELSE HAVE YOU LIED TO ME ABOUT?
...
One flip side of this that I felt:
You said you loved ME - now you say you only love the masculine aspects of me.
You lied to me - what else have you lied about?

...

Wow, classic delusional cross dresser response. Utter nonsense.

You are comparing math to the color purple. THEY'RE DIFFERENT. The "man" with whom she fell in love had whatever emotional characteristics he had. Wearing a dress is not an emotional characteristic, it is a physical act and it is way off the norm AND you hid it from her.

[Patrica Gil]

Was married for thirty plus years to someone who said they were okay with it. Then soon after we were married she suddenly changed her mind. DADT was her policy. She was not a nice person and 6 years after the divorce she still isn't a nice person. Both our children rarely talk with her and both call me rather almost everyday. She is an alcoholic and is looking for someone with a nice pension to take care of her.
I met someone and pretty much in the beginning I told her about me because I was not going to impose myself on anyone. She totally accepts me and encourages me to be myself. I am the housewife and she finds she enjoys having a housewife better than a husband.

[Amy Fakley]

Not telling is like an interest-bearing mistake. The longer it goes on, the deeper the poo you find yourself in, and the greater the cost to correct the mistake.

On top of that, crossdressing is f'ing complicated. Yeah I'd been doing it my whole life in various fashions, but I was doing it in the deepest denial you can possibly imagine. I was afraid of myself ... literally terrified of what I always knew, but never admitted, was lurking beneath the surface. For cryin' out loud ... google was 10 years old before I ever had the nerve to type 'crossdressing' into it.

Didn't mean I wasn't crossdressing when I got the chance, just that I'd do it, then lie to myself like I didn't do it, and I positively refused to look inwardly and examine my motivations. Wham-bam-dress-like-a-m'aam then act like it never happened.

So in the midst of that I fell in love, and made the fateful mistake of not telling her about this thing I could barely even admit to myself that I even did. To be fair, I was like 23. I wasn't very mature. I was practically still a child.

But, from that moment on, my mistake began to accrue interest. Got married ... the poo got deeper. Bought a house, even deeper. Had kids, deeper still, and there was no going back now. Can you imagine looking your new born daughter in the eye, looking around at the beautiful nest you've built with the woman you truly love, and then contemplating the fact that you are about to blow all that to pieces.

Because there's this terrible thing inside you that you can barely understand, and you truly hate yourself.

And every single day, the noose get's tighter. It damn near killed me on several occasions, but I couldn't bring myself to that either, because again ... everyone I loved in the world depended on me being who they thought I was. Who they thought I was supposed to be.

Why did it take 17 years for me to tell? That's how long it took the noose to snap my neck, and when I finally reached that point ... it's not that I didn't care about the consequences ... it's just that the pain I was in was so intense, so unrelenting, I literally had no other choice.

It was either take the chance that coming out might blow up everything I cared about, or go insane with 100% certainty.

I know it was unfair to my wife to hide for so long. I feel awful about that, and she does remind me from time to time how I hurt her. I can only hope that on balance, she can at least understand why I did.

It really is not entirely unlike opening a high interest credit card your first year out of highschool, then making minimum payments for the next 20 years until one day you realize you owe more on your dumb mistake you made as a kid than you do on your house. It's a lot like that in fact.

you asked why some people don't talk to their wives. That was pretty much my reason in a nutshell

[Tracii G]

ClosetED I'm not quite sure where your head is but if you didn't tell your wife before you got married its pretty safe to say she didn't marry the both of you.
I was talking about TG issues with a cis woman and she referred to it this way "What woman wants to marry a big hunk of a man only to find he likes to dress like a 2 dollar hooker on the week ends"." That to me as a woman would be the ultimate slap in the face".
To be honest I saw her point and couldn't argue with her logic.
To expect your wife to say "Oh well I'll just have to deal with it" is a bit of long shot.

[marlacd]

I'll agree that violating the core values of what women want in their men is lying to them.

But women aren't the little angels they portray themselves. Once the "I do's" are said, that's when things start slipping. Mine, in particular, went from 115 to 190. The makeup no longer went on. That passion that we had for them should never change. But they want to change you to suit their needs. Be honest- how many times have gotten chewed out for not reading them correctly? Then menopause hits, that's no picnic. Lots of times women will change drastically, and you have to accept it.

It's a fifty-fifty chance that your marriage will go the distance. Why then, 63% of women bring about divorce proceedings? If you really think about it, some women will find another reason to divorce if it isn't crossdressing.

[Judy-Somthing]

Why do people deceive or so call lie?
How about when we try to communicate and our wife's go into freak-out mode!
They think that cross-dressing is :censored: , OH but if a girl wants to stop dressing fem then it's to bad she's the boss.

What is really so bad about cross-dressing, my wife stopped dressing fem 15 years ago and to bad if I don't like it.
But if I want to stop dress fem for fun once in a while , I'm all messed up?

[phili]

Hi Magnetar,
I just want to say I think you are very kind, and your ability to dispassionately articulate what you see, even when hurting, is astonishing. I remember your words often.

It might help to add a twist on the 'idealized woman' target that many of us have, and that is, I think, that the emotional logic is that by being it we don't have to wish for it. If we are really honest, we also realize it is idealized, and that we are only approximating, anyway. And more to the point, that we are trying to have the sexual pursuit and conquest challenge resolved by being the pursued.

This is the kind of deep emotional stuff that adults are supposed to temper with real world relationship demands, and I have heard your dismay over the lying and absent emotions. I may be out on a limb here, but you may be contributing inadvertently by allowing yourself to be a little codependent, which is a trap we fall into without even noticing. Permitting him to go off into fantasy without claiming your place is feeding a misdirected effort.

A path to resetting the relationship might be to say- "We are making this real- and getting this into a space where we are all being blessed by the exploration you are making, and the discovery of how to approximate being a super sexy woman. But sexiness belongs to the two of us, it is a relationship status, and I don't like to be compared with an idealized version that isn't real. It is like magazine covers- they torment women."

"Most importantly, we are married, and need to focus on each other. Certainly if you want to be desired and sexy, so do I, so lets trade off on that."

My wife and I went to a really good sex therapist who changed our whole view of sex, and with it, how to go about relationship better. (PM me if you want to talk in more detail.)

[ClosetED]

I made a post to offer an alternative view and did not say anyone else's view was incorrect - that is why there is a thread about hate.
Yes, dressing is about physical objects and love is an emotion. But lying can cover both kinds and that was my point. No one remains unchanged over 27 years of marriage. My wife also has put on weight, but only about 15 lbs. She did get into habit of no makeup and dressing less feminine as others have mentioned. Is this therefore the same person I married - no, but no one does not change. So having a partner do things differently than when dating should be expected and that is where compromises must be done from both sides.
Did I present only the male part for the first 2 years- yes. Did she fail to say she was going to stop working 2 jobs (like I was also) and just stay home for 25 years? - Yes. Did she say she was going to stop using makeup and wearing just pants - No. I will not call that lying - but some might - it is a change of circumstances that was not foreseen and must be expected. Wanting to continue to dress was not foreseen 27 years ago, so it was not an intentional misrepresentation, which would be a lie.

I bring out other viewpoints to further discussion, not to disrespect other's views.
Hugs, Ellen

[Cheryl James]

I have read and thought about every post on this thread and find myself agreeing with the GG's who have commented and, also, agreeing with and understanding the comments made by my sisters. My demographic would be the "older" one. For me, growing up, this desire of mine was a more closely held secret than Hillary's emails. I didn't (probably still don't, fully) understand it myself and based on passing comments of others, knew without a shadow of a doubt that nobody else would, either. Furthermore, I was certain that divulging this secret about myself to anyone would be tantamount to ostracizing myself from society. I believed to my inner core that anyone who knew this about me would have nothing to do with me.

As a result I never told any girlfriends or my eventual wife. The results have been as I expected as my wife (we are still sharing a house) had all of the feared and expected responses. We are still married, legally, but are really nothing more than roommates who tolerate each other. There are children and mortgages, etc. etc, involved. My dressing is very random. I am not satisfied. She is not satisfied. But, would I do it differently? Probably not as I would have been alone a lot longer. One might argue: So what? You are alone, now. And, that would be true, but I do have kids that I love dearly and there were times when we were happy for awhile. I wish I could have a wife who accepts and loves me for all of the good that I bring to her despite my desire to express myself as a woman often. To those who have that...good for you.

[Jenniferathome]

Cheryl, this:
"But, would I do it differently? Probably not as I would have been alone a lot longer."

is wrong. You are assuming that it is the telling and not the hiding that is the problem. And the women here overwhelmingly state that it is the hiding that has caused the friction. Some women here state that they "might have" chosen differently had they known, that also means they might NOT have chosen differently. Those of us that told their wives after marriage put our wives between a rock and a hard place. No choice. And even then, the vast majority of wives accommodate us. Telling does not result in estrangement, hiding does.

Had your current partner not accepted you, your next one would have...

[Tina_gm]

I don't think a comparison to someone "changing" by not caring for themselves or their appearance is the same as concealing a core part of ones identity. Gaining weight for example.... is a very predictable thing that happens as people get older. It is not even that they stop trying, but the effort they once gave to keep their weight down now is no longer effective. In a lot of cases, it is because they are only eating or doing what they have always done, but now an additional 50 or whatever lbs. is added to their weight.

There are a lot of people who when they get older, or because they have been in a relationship for many years do stop trying as hard to care for themselves and their appearance. I think that is sad, because it probably means the reason why they did try harder before was not for themselves but to attract others. Granted, that will always be a reason, but I think people should always want to try to look good and feel good for themselves 1st. We do have to remember too, that as we get older, we are not going to be as physically or sexually attractive in our later years as we did when we were say in our 20's. We can however look good for our age, but that will still not compare to what we did or could have been say 30 or more years ago. We have to accept that for ourselves and for our partners too.

People evolve, and I guess you can say that it is change. But that change is an evolution, sometimes for the better, sometimes not. The difference is when it comes to gender issues/variance, is when someone conceals that part of themselves, then later decides to be open about it. It was always there, but hidden. It was a lie, IMO, a flat out lie. I am guilty of this as well. We gave a false impression of who we are to our partners. In a sense, for many of us, we tricked them into thinking we are someone we at least THINK they are likely to be more attracted to, physically as well as our internal core identity.

In my case, I knew what my feelings and desires were. Initially, my intention was to not act on it as I had never really done, and not to tell about it since it was always going to be a hidden desire but no need to discuss since it was not going to be acted upon. OOPS, I was wrong really doesn't cut it here, since it was something I knew existed within myself. (I tried that with my wife early on, didn't fly well with her)

There will likely still be an evolution to our gender variance, perhaps a progression of it, but at least they would know of its existence, and they would never be lied to about it. They may or may not be able to follow us through our evolution just as we may or may not be able to follow them through their evolution, but at least we would have never lied about who we really are.

[Imeni]

Alright, Three pages of comments ranging from people upset, agreeing or just stating their own views and this was just some pet peeve thought i had one night when i was cleaning my room. And with no real knowledge of how to respond directly to people's comments or posts in this topic, ill just have to be as general as i can and hope i covered all the bases.

First off, when i described "giving the benifit of the doubt to the older generation, the only real thing i was trying to imply was that, using my dad whos in his mid fifties and certainly not a cd'er... to my knowledge anyways, theres a horrible image that can go away, thank you brain, he's the middle child of five boys. Grew up in a time where this type of world wide connection to so many vastly different and yet still relatable people exist in a form you can talk to didn't exist. I've read threads where even the older of us said that they felt alone. That crossdressing wasn't something talked about, and if it was on tv or in movies, it was all super drawn out for comedic value and not just something people did, and if you did do it, heaven forbid, you're instantly labelled as gay and after that? Bad stuff happened. He grew up in a time where there were things you just didnt talk about openly, especially with your wife because even to this day, wives generally make out significantly better in a divorce, as i believe was actually stated early on in this thread.

Also, my implications were directed soley on crossdressers. Not those who are secretly attracted to men when dressed, or people who want to transition or even those on here who are transgendered and are just trying to figure out what they are doing, who they are, etc. The only judgement i throw out is in direct purpose of wondering WHY men just blatently lie to their wives then find excuses of why its a good thing. Yes, i get it. Telling her can end badly. And if you are one of those people who started dressing into the marriage, this isn't even really about you. But if you are one of those people, please, dont lie to your wife. I get things could get bad. It's a loose loose situation. But what happens when she finds out? And she will. Sooner or later. I've read a lot of stories lately of us who left a skirt on the bed "on accident" only for the wife to find out and drive her into some sort of spiral of doubt and betrayal. Like who are you to do that to the woman you claim to love? Nevermind the fact that some people have to hide the urge to do it when the wife leaves town.

Yeah yeah, in a perfect world, we could wear what we want, be any size we want, things would match, we wouldnt sag, wives would have an instant translate program so we could avoid fights and confusing situations, that we could dress when we had the urge and our day could continue instead of sitting in a relationship, of our own design, complaining that our lives are hard because we cant dress when we want to as we have some DADT relationship... if you knew that you dressed before the marriage, or before you even met the wife(or girlfriend) and was just open with her, yes, true, you might not be married. But maybe if you were open and honest and waited for someone who isn't disgusted, or horrified or even pissed off that you lied to her for how long into a marriage, or even into having kids which takes up like twenty solid years of time and every holiday and some weekends afterwards or potential dressing time, maybe she would have the husband that she wanted, you would have someone who can accept you and you could actually enjoy dressing.

I simply cannot stand having people complain about their lives, how challenging it is, how much it sucks when you could have just been honest from the go.

Also, would I settle or comprimise? No. I wouldn't. However, im not about to enter a relationship with someone, lie about who i am or what i do out of shame or fear, and expect my life to be great. Id rather be single and not be responsible for jading and hurting a woman who i claimed to love but couldnt even be honest with than hoping my lies go un-noticed. I'm good for that. Maybe it's just me being part of a generation that doesn't hate themselves for being who i am.

Either way, you people do you, and dont worry about the little things. Unless the strap breaks. D:

[Judy-Somthing]

One reason for not telling the girl friend is because some people think being a CDer is a sick or bad thing.

If you tell her and now she thinks your a "weirdo" like I've herd quite a few say about Caitlin Jenner.

You think to yourself, if I tell her and she leaves me, she could start telling people and it could get out to the wrong people.

[Robin414]

This may have been brought up already (I honestly didn't read the whole thread) but I think it comes down to how we managed to attract our SO in the FIRST place?

A LOT of water has to flow to carve out the grand (CD\TG coming out) canyon...IMHO!

I'm an old ass, late bloomer BTW 😉

[Dana44]

My Ex wife outed me to everyone at work and my sis. We divorced on issues that complex like she was stealing money from me and siphoning money from my corporation and having sex with men yet we were in an open relationship. But her running around on my money, trips out of town with another men. Just could not take it anymore... Well anyways she outed me. I tell any women that I am with. Most tolerated it but not all the time. My current GF puts up with it and we do go out as two gals pretty often. So, I think communication is important in any relationship. But as I said you can be outed and it can get out of control.

[Shayna]

Sometimes it's the wife that doesn't want to communicate. I don't talk about CD'ing with my wife out of respect to her. She would rather not think about it.

[Fiona123]

My situation is similar to Shayna's. I would love to share my crossdressing with my wife but she does not want to hear about it.

[ReineD]

... if you knew that you dressed before the marriage, or before you even met the wife(or girlfriend) and was just open with her, yes, true, you might not be married. But maybe if you were open and honest and waited for someone who isn't disgusted, or horrified or even pissed off that you lied to her for how long into a marriage, or even into having kids which takes up like twenty solid years of time and every holiday and some weekends afterwards or potential dressing time, maybe she would have the husband that she wanted, you would have someone who can accept you and you could actually enjoy dressing.

I simply cannot stand having people complain about their lives, how challenging it is, how much it sucks when you could have just been honest from the go.

I would love to find a survey about when CDers told their partners based on age. I'm guessing that more people who are under 30-35 now and who already crossdress regularly, have told prospective partners compared to people who were well into their adulthood before the onset of the internet.

I totally agree with you, anyone who is starting their adult lives with a partner NOW and who recognizes the CDing as more than just a private sexual kink absolutely has no reason to not tell a prospective partner.

But, what of people who don't crossdress full on regularly and who don't realize they are CDers until their urges become stronger in their 30s or 40s after they've been married 10-15 years? What if it's someone who used items of women's clothing for sexual gratification while single and had the need to do this disappear once they began having regular sex with a woman? What are they to tell a prospective partner ... that they have in the past masturbated while wearing panties? I think a lot of members here, in their younger days, separated what they thought was just a harmless sexual kink (that would disappear once in a committed sexual relationship) from what was to become later a need to crossdress fully and on a regular basis.

[Sarasometimes]

Okay, let me have it. I fully disagree with the OP.
-I don't know of many fully disclosed relationships where nothing is kept secret or not mentioned.
-The I need to be "a man" and tell my wife how it is is very naive. If that was the case then every wife would just be fine with this since her hubby told to?? Tracii just FYI the OP suggested the same thing you called ClosetED out on.
-OP admits to having no experience doing this even to a girlfriend but instead feels her out and drops her when there is a indication she might not be into it.
-Most here didn't get into this later in life so everyone who didn't disclose before the vows is a coward and not "A man"
-Lastly, I think it is best to avoid believing that you have a better understanding of another person situation than they do.

[Amy Fakley]

I simply cannot stand having people complain about their lives, how challenging it is, how much it sucks when you could have just been honest from the go.

Yeah, and I can't stand having people pass judgment on others without even attempting to understand what it's like to walk in their shoes. Just because it doesn't make sense to you, doesn't mean a point of view is invalid.

You're correct that you should tell before a relationship gets serious, and I applaud you for your conviction to never wind up in that situation yourself. However, life is messy. Mistakes are made, especially when you're young (and you sound young -- if you don't know this yet, give it a little while and life will teach you all about it).

Sometimes you don't know the flavor of the koolaid until you're drinking it. I've found that it's the hard decisions forged in that crucible, that come to define us, moreso than the easier decisions we can make in advance.

Not that we shouldn't avoid trouble. Obviously we should. It's just that sometimes it happens, and you've gotta deal with that, and you won't understand it until it happens to you.

[Jenniferathome]

...But, what of people who don't crossdress full on regularly and who don't realize they are CDers until their urges become stronger in their ....


Yes, this is a real thing. It's easy to dismiss past activity when it is a negligible part of your life AND that desire is fading as you date, marry, have kids. I was in that boat, thinking it would go away. I was way late in telling my wife but I never thought of myself as a "cross dresser" until I was able to accept it myself. That was probably in my mid to late thirties. Maybe 15 years into marriage. Then came the, "ok, I am this, now what?" Am I going to act on it? Can I quash it somehow? Shortly after dealing with those questions, I came out.

I like to think I would have told my wife when we were just dating, and had I had the realization I do today, I can state I would have, but I did't have that. I had, "It's a phase, it's done."

[Teresa]

Imeni,
The World just isn't that black and white let alone a CDers one.
There isn't a single reason but a multiple of set of circumstances why things aren't said.
In my particular case I had GFs who were Ok with it , so naively I thought it wasn't a problem. At the time it was very sexual especially with a GG again I thought that was OK because I wasn't going to disappoint in the bedroom. There wasn't the level of guilt and shame , that starts to creep in when you find you actually enjoy CDing without the sexual content . It's taken me all this time to discover many of the facts, how could I tell anyone when I didn't know that then .
You are in a position of talking out of freedom of information, there wasn't an internet when I married so I couldn't have turned to this forum as you have for help and advice.
Maybe you are exercising a touch of arrogance when you look at it like that, many of us have soldiered on through some very difficult circumstances and can come here to pass some of that on to others, but please don't put us down you are talking about years before you were born when some of us experienced CDing for the first time. There was no one to turn to then to help and guide us, we just learned to live with it and try and carry on, that's why we still went ahead and married.
I don't regret any of it for a moment, despite everything I have two great children and three lovely grandchildren, which is something my wife can still thank me for and be proud of.

[Sarasometimes]

Very well put Teresa! All valid points.

[Tracii G]

She does sound young with a set in stone ideology but as one gets older life changes a lot, what you thought was true turns out not to be anywhere close.
I told my daughters when they hit 18 write down whats important to them and how they view life in their diaries.
Go back at 26 and look at what you wrote and call me.
They both did and told me how much of an eyeopener it was reading what they wrote all those years ago and how much different life turned out and what they believe in now.

[reb.femme]

Got it in one Tracii. I would absolutely hate the young version of me, if we could meet. Loud and unthinking.

My mindset changed completely after joining the RAF at 21 and I'm nothing like earlier me. Especially in a wig and a dress. :heehee:

Becky

[abby054]

Quote Originally Posted by Imeni

I simply cannot stand having people complain about their lives, how challenging it is, how much it sucks when you could have just been honest from the go.

How I wish it was that easy. Forthright honesty is not always the best policy. I told my wife after three years of marriage, but only a few weeks after it returned from a ten year absence. I thought it was gone, but I was wrong. I thought I was being honest and truthful and all that nonsense. Her reaction was so violent and mean and so long that I vowed never to reveal anything in my soul to her again. I have kept that vow for 36 years. And she often wonders aloud why. Silence can be golden. Sometimes it can be just plain yellow. It is not one size fits all.

[sometimes_miss]

Cheryl, this:
"But, would I do it differently? Probably not as I would have been alone a lot longer."

is wrong. You are assuming that it is the telling and not the hiding that is the problem. And the women here overwhelmingly state that it is the hiding that has caused the friction.

Right. THE WOMEN HERE. The ones who want to learn more, who might consider staying with their husband.

The ones who jettison their husbands and boyfriends from their lives aren't here.

So we all just have to guess why they ditched their mates. Knowing the general populations degree of embracing crossdressers, it's a pretty easy guess, considering all the women who stay with men who cheat, men who commit crimes, men who beat those wives, etc..

It's the crossdressing that kills most of our relationships. Women will forgive all sorts of things as long as the animal attraction is still there; lies of all kinds, girlfriends on the side, even screwing her sisters, neighbors and friends, consider all those who stay with men who beat them because, and I quote from plenty of interviews when asked why they don't leave, 'But I love him'. As long as the attraction is still there, and female to male attraction is based on the female finding masculine qualities in the man. Suddenly finding out he's not the manly man she thought him to be can kill the attraction faster than anything else. Don't think so?

Imagine any physically attractive guy. Now, imagine him in a wig, make up and a dress walking into any singles bar. How many women are going to be attracted to him? As opposed to say, how many would have been attracted to him in typical male attire? I think we all have a pretty good idea of what the answer will be.


What is really so bad about cross-dressing, my wife stopped dressing fem 15 years ago and to bad if I don't like it. But if I want to dress fem for fun once in a while , I'm all messed up?
While that logic will never win the debate, it is an interesting question to put out there, just to stop them in their tracks for a few minutes during the discussion. Of course, their answer will automatically be 'That's different'.

[Tina_gm]

Sometimes miss- I really do wonder what the actual percentage of women who ditch their BF's or husbands for just the CDing alone is, IF the CDing is not the majority of the CDers life. In other words, more time spent male as opposed to female? I think there is definitely more than some on here want to admit or just do not understand that it really does happen just because of ANY gender variance, no matter how good the relationship is otherwise. But, I think a lot of women DO stick around so long as the CDing does not progress into full time or transition. Then it has been shown to obviously tilt the percentage far into the eject eject eject territory.

I wonder too what the percentage of the relationships those of us are now in, married or otherwise would have progressed had we told early on.... My wife today says she does not know how things would have gone if I told her right from the start.

[Dana44]

Oh my goodness Tracy, I had my two daughters write down stuff also the day before each birthday. Yep its an eye opener.

[MonctonGirl]

It's not just communicating about CDing with the wife that is the issue.
If she disapproves and can't handle it on her own, her BFF and her mother and family and then others will find out and as you know, bad news travels fast, and people have been known to lose their jobs, the respect of their children, long-time friends, etc.

Fear of this type of rejection is not just like fear of walking up to a pretty girl and asking her out, feeling like you're going to die
In this case, it emulates what would really happen in primitive life when ousted by your tribe
A man with negative feedback from his CD behavior can lose his family, income and peer support system. He's vulnerable.

As far as not communicating with wives in general ( about other things ) maybe its because they learned that their wives
misinterpret nearly every statement as some type of attack on them and somehow end up upset by the end of the attempt
at "communication". Unless someone is DYING or the house is on fire, communication with the wife many not be worth it.

[alwayshave]

I cannot speak to all men, but I can tell you why I hid my CDing from my ex-wife. My ex-wife was a master manipulator, still is. She uses information like the CIA using information to flip a target. Had she ever known, and thank God she does not, she would have used it against me at every step. The truth is I should have never married her in the first place, but that was a bell I could not un-ring. So you can call me a coward, but I knew that leaving without having ever told her about this side of me was in some ways a good move. We ended up divorcing for the economic consequences of decisions she made. The bad side was that I have not seen my children in years, as I said she is a master manipulator. So there are consequences form men, loosing your children, the $40,000 in alimony I must pay every year and potentially being outed to people you do not want to know about your hobby.

[TrishaTX]

I'll give you my two cents....I went to catholic school and grew up in a time when you just didn't do this....so when I got married and I knew I was in love...I just didn't think she would accept it. You ind of mention a few things , you hint, you watch stuff on TV and hope you see some light...but mostly you are too scared. You just hide it because it is easier and safer(even though it isn't)....I wish I had been stronger, more honest especially with myself. Would have saved allot of horror.


Ill also add , I think allot of us are figuring it out as we age, then it is almost too late. We all have habits we stop, this one is hard to break.

[Samantha_Marie]

It took me about 8 years to talk to my wife about it. We started dating when we were in high school and we were both from really conservative families. It took me a long time to figure everything out and work up the courage to talk to her about it. I was totally afraid that she would leave. Thankfully she didn't. She's no thrilled about it but she's taking her time and doing her best to understand. It will take time but she deserves all the time that she needs. Coming from our upbringing, it's a lot to ask but she's doing her best.

[Tina_gm]

A lot the same with me Samantha. My wife was partially raised by her maternal grand parents on their dairy farm. Very conservative, very religious. That my wife hasn't left me is quite remarkable in itself. The general area which we are living in is not a very accepting area either. Up until me, she knew basically no one who was TG. She has said to me that if I had told her right at the beginning, she truly does not know if our relationship would have progressed or not.

[Suzetta]

My wife knows that I like to CD on occasion but she is not into it. Does not want to see me doing at all. On recommendation of a friend, I got her to read "Katies Playground" by Marilyn Marshmallows as it shown CDing as a fun thing done by adults for fun. It took away the serious side of it for her and she now jokes about making me wear a bra etc. but she does not actually carry out her threat. She's not ready and I don't push it. It has to come from her.

I can only recommend that you find a way to make it less serious. If woman see that it is just harmless fun, they may come around to it. If they see that its a big deal to you, it may send them running. Make it fun.