Wentworth the TV program - serious question.

[Tamara Croft]

Hi all

I don't know if any of you watch Wentworth (sort of a remake of Prisoner Cell Block H), there is a TS in the program that has a rather hard story line (IMHO). She has breast cancer and had a dilemma of choosing whether to have her breasts removed to beat the cancer or keep her breasts and die feeling in the right body, as it has taken her 32 years to become the woman she is. She did decide not to have the surgery because losing her breasts, coming off estrogen would start changing her body again and she wanted to die how she should have been born, however something someone said in the show made her change her mind.

I found the whole thing extremely traumatic (as you know I'm a GG), out of the whole show she is my favourite character (which is strangely weird)... and then I started to think about you all here and what you would do, would you have the OP or not, which really upset me quite a bit :sad: The very thought of anyone having to go through that is horrifying as it is, but to lose your breasts, come off estrogen etc.... body changes back to something you shouldn't be is possibly even worse.

So that's my question, what would you do if you were faced with it? I honestly want to know and try and understand why it affected me in the way it did :\

[becky77]

That would be a cruel decision. I'm not sure what the affects of coming off Estrogen are if you have had SRS compared to if you haven't.

Removing breasts would leave me feeling gutted but I think I would do it. I would be no less a woman for suffering what many women go through, I think if you like her or not Angelina Jolie has helped with perception on this. Woman can now be proud of surviving cancer rather than being shamed into embarrassment over their body.

Stopping Estrogen would be more difficult and it's possible I would rather risk dying of cancer than going back to how I used to feel. It's really hard to explain how much the hormones have freed me mentally.
I guess I would try come off them and monitor the changes physically verses mentally and only then could I make an informed decision, although there would be risk of depression and not thinking straight.

I really don't know but I think the survival instinct would kick in.

[LeaP]

It's a good question and one that cannot be answered with certainty, of course. I empathize with your feelings. Just thinking through it feels traumatic. It comes across to me like a nightmare returning. I think the shortest summary of my answer would be this: I would rather not live through the nightmare again. Plus, I have been so often suicidal in my life that I might see death as a relief.

[Nigella]

Two people in my life would be at the forefront of any decision I would need to make. Generally I weigh up the pros and cons of what I am confronted with. I think the biggest issue for me would be the results of coming off HRT. Having a breast removed would be a set back by all means, but like most GGs, it could dealt with it by prothetics, to some extent pre HRT, been there done that, stlll got the boobs.

Lets hope that no-one here has to deal with such a scenario :(

[arbon]

I would have them removed. I could be a flat chested woman - plenty of other women are.

I don't think if one is post op there would be much if any physical change going off estrogen for a while?

[PaulaQ]

The problem with going off estrogen long term after SRS would be osteoporosis. You need either testosterone or estrogen to prevent it. You would tend to become quite frail.
Also, you'd essentially go through menopause. Some of us would deal better with that than others. I was not one of the ones who dealt with it well.

I am not saying I wouldn't look for other alternatives. If I could keep on HRT, I could live without my breasts, although it would be hard. But it's my understanding that they almost never let women take supplementary estrogen after they've been treated for breast cancer.

Under those circumstances, I would end my life. I remember how I felt before I started estrogen. I'm not going back to those feelings again. There is nothing on this earth that I fear, absolutely nothing, but those feelings. So if I found that I was such an unfortunate, or had some other medical condition like an allergy to estrogen that produced embolisms, well, look, none of us are getting out of this life of ours alive anyway, so it would be game over for me.

Living in agony for an indeterminate period of time vs. a quick and painless death? There is no question which of those I'd pick.

[whowhatwhen]

AFAIK Cancer hurts the whole time you're dying so yeah I'd get them removed and get reconstructive surgery.
Going off HRT would be tougher but I imagine you could keep your T suppressed or get an orchie provided you take measures to handle osteoporosis.

If breast cancer is fed by estrogen and it's all removed during a mastectomy then why would you need to stop HRT anyway?

[Georgette_USA]

Have not seen the program. There was a similar circumstance on a US TV program called "Heartbeat".

My way is in NO way advice for others. It was MY way back then.

Having to have a mastectomy for one or both would be a hard decision, but we are talking a life or death decision. Have a sis-in-law with breast cancer and had a single mastectomy last year. She had reconstruction done.

My partner and I both had SRS in 1977, I was 26 she was 41-42. She did not have much breast growth maybe a A-B size. Mine were about a C-D.
We both stopped HRT within 5 years or so after surgery. Was NO data at that time on long time post SRS and use of continuing HRT. My OB/GYN could see NO problem, as it is similar to a Post-Menopausal female. There was NO blood testing for hormone levels back then. I was on a regimen of Estrogen/Progesterone, similar to a females monthly cycle, and I had similar emotional roller coaster at times.

There has been NO noticeable physical changes. Can't say now on whether age and/or time may have had an effect. My leg/arm hair has gone away on its own. With the elimination of the BIG producer of Testosterone and the Estrogen having done its thing. Nether of us noticed any mental/emotional changes after stopping HRT. Those are not really measurable things.

As for the osteoporosis, you can have bone density tests done, and deal with that just like any Post-Menopausal female. As for the feeling of going thru Menopause, can't say I really felt much problems there. I don't understand the emotional feelings that were relieved by HRT. Yes I felt much better, but I think most of that was by the whole transition process.

After 35-40 years I have NO regrets or problems with doing all this.

[pamela7]

It's a horrible choice, which is why it is entertaining to audiences and so traumatic to people who know and feel the issue keenly.
My wife had the big C three years ago, fast aggressive and life-threatening. We came through it, she's in full remission and most of her vitality back. I'd wish it on no-one.
To the question: we cannot hypothetically answer with integrity, because until you've been down such roads you really don't know your choices; and they'll differ from the hypothetical. We can ask how strongly the presence of hormones or breasts defines one's gender ID. If I'm at peace with myself then they do not matter now, cos i know i'm female inside.

[Eryn]

I don't think that my decision process would be any different than a GG in the same position. If it was fightable I'd fight it. If I survived there would be ample time to reconstruct whatever was damaged

In fact, I have a GG friend who has been through exactly this and who seems to be living a happy life now. I don't see her trading her present life for a coffin.

[AllieSF]

I think that as a life or death decision, I would choose life. A friend of mine on HRT recently had a mild stroke caused by her own physical characteristics, including lack of sleep for many years and then compounded, according to her doctors, by the HRT. She cannot take hormones for risk of another stroke. She can get her breast augmentation and GRS surgery though, which she plans to do.

[KymberlyOct]

I am facing this question from a somewhat different perspective. I have started seeing the therapist but my first appt with the MD that prescribes hormones is in August. I am very concerned that due to my health problems. Two heart attacks 2005 and 2011 4 stents - maybe more with an angiogram scheduled for next month additionally I have had stage 1 bladder cancer removed 5 times since 2011. I am very concerned that they will say "no hormones for you" At this stage it looks like I can get FFS - cardiologist said he would report me as high risk but stable. Also should be able to get BA after the FFS so long as my health holds for the next 12 months.

My concern if they say no hormones is - mood / body hair growth - ( doing facial electrolysis next week - 8 hours in one day) and the other concern is muscle definition.
I am hoping that I can at least get an estrogen transdermal patch and maybe some antiandrogens - like spirolactone. Ugh !!!!! Wish I had done this years ago when I was healthier. I am not as old as my health sounds - I am 55 yrs old.

Any thoughts or suggestions are appreciated. It might come in useful in the upcoming months as I discuss this with the team of various doctors.
Sorry this post is so scattered - lots going on and much to consider.

[arbon]

Under those circumstances, I would end my life. I remember how I felt before I started estrogen. I'm not going back to those feelings again. There is nothing on this earth that I fear, absolutely nothing, but those feelings. So if I found that I was such an unfortunate, or had some other medical condition like an allergy to estrogen that produced embolisms, well, look, none of us are getting out of this life of ours alive anyway, so it would be game over for me.



Except you would not return to those feelings because you don't produce Testosterone anymore. I've gone a month without estrogen, no big deal.

[Lorileah]

I'm old. I have lived a good life. Having had to care for someone with breast cancer and watching what chemo and surgery did, I would choose to let nature take it's course and honestly look for a way out when the time came. Being in the medical field I know that when a Dr says you have "X" amount of timer if you do and "Y" amount of time if you don't they are just as clueless as you are. As one famous person once said "I won't kill myself just to live a few days longer". If the cancer has been graded, then I would go with the odds. Nope, not doing anything that will make me miserable just to hang on. I often wish we had the same options we give our pets.

[PretzelGirl]

I think it isn't "we would do what any woman would do". Tamara asks the question here because there is so much more for us to think about given our path and dealing with it. Plus it depends if you are post-op (you may not be able to get surgery after cancer, so how does that affect you?), older (where women live with little E already), and how long after starting HRT (where you have received effects and may be less dysphoric).

I don't just jump to removal, but I would. I am fortunate that I don't tend towards depression at all. While I wouldn't like it, reconstruction is possible. The loss of Estrogen is tougher, but my changes are far along, although probably not done, and I could survive as many changes would stick. There is no T (if I make it another month) that will rise and reverse a few things. I would survive fine although unhappy about the circumstances naturally.

[Eryn]

Every GG loses estrogen with menopause. That is obviously survivable. What I would really dislike is losing my Spiro and having to live with testosterone. I don't want to be that person.

[emma5410]

I am post op. Last year I had a breast screening and received a letter asking me to come back for further tests as something unusual had been found. I had a week to wait, and during that week I started to panic and think about what I would do if I had cancer. I decided that I would be okay to have my breasts removed if I had to but would not stop estrogen for anything. I would have rather died than do that. Fortunately, they gave me the all clear. At that time, someone I work with was having a lump removed. It was successful and she is fine.
If it happened now I would probably be prepared to try life without oestrogen. The difference now is that I am much happier and secure in myself.

[Rianna Humble]

I have been struggling to find an answer since I first read this. I think on balance that I would have the op because it is not my breasts that define who I am.

If it was to be long term off oestrogen, then I might just revise the decision that brought me to transition - although there is no future in that option.

[Bria]

My number two daughter had to have one breast removed because of cancer and they did reconstruction in the same operation. The resulting appearance is remarkable, I can't see any difference side to side, of course I'm observing her as normally dressed.

My sister had one removed and did not chose reconstruction and uses a prosthesis and is quite lopsided.

Obviously such a decision is very personal, but the latest procedures are amazing and thus the decision isn't either or.

Hugs, Bria

[Tamara Croft]

Thank you so much for your replies, I appreciate it very much.


I think it isn't "we would do what any woman would do". Exactly :sad: I just can't imagine having to make that choice.